Links: Deebo!
Posted on March 29th, 2007 by Bassett
- BT has been working to get better this offseason, by studying tape of himself, and working with a Martial Arts instructor who has worked with the Gracie brothers (of MMA fame).
- It occurred to me yesterday that the Jets now have a guy named D-Bo, on their roster … Deebo!(language… beware)
- Here’s an updated draft order for next month’s draft.
- Tom Rock states that the Jets were “aggressive” in bringing in David Bowens.
- David Harris, Josh Wilson, Leon Hall and Michael Bush are making visits to the Pats.
- 1992, worst draft ever?
- Jarrett ran a 4.62 at his Pro Day. Yee-ouch.
- A look at some guys who’s stock has risen due to workouts.
Filed under: Main Page
4.62? and a 4.67? You got problems as a top WR prospect if Mangini can cover you!
There is no way they draft Jarrett or TE Miller with those workouts.
Milller is only 6-4, 256 (note, same size as Baker) with a 4.74, only managed 18 benches for a TE, and had no production in college, yet is somehow going to be drafted in the first round? Good luck to whoever takes him, just hope Jets dont make that mistake.
Jarret is just too slow to be an everydown NFL wideout, can not take him that high, and thankfully his non Mangini persona will have him completely off the draft board.
All the mock drafts out there need to look elsewhere for the Jets first pick. I think offensive line help, OT’s Staley or Ugoh or OG Stubbs are very logical.
I am happy with Jarrett’s time. That means he will be there when the JETS pick at #25. I am
not one who likes players who rise on the draft board because of times, weight lifting and
whatever else they rate prospects on. I believe in what “they do on the field.” Dwayne
Jarrett is a winner. He has great hands and gets open. Speed is nice, but do you remember
Lam Jones? Great speed. No football instincts. I hope the JETS take Jarrett at #25.
The Ed(itor)
I generally agree with your point that I do not judge a player on his workouts. Jarrett has been a high quality WR for a very successful college team for a few years now. I think he will be a productive NFL player, if not a star. That being said, I don’t think the Jets should be looking at a WR in the first round since that’s one of their positions of strength.
I would much rather look at a player for the defensive backfield or, if avaliable, an anchor for the inteior of the DL (even though it seems we are adding a new DLman every week.)
All I have to say is that Jarrett reminds me of another wonderful USC wideout with a great career and poor 40 times. Anyone remember Mike Williams? Is he even still in the league?
Everything you say about Jarrett may be true but that does not make him a fit for this team at this time.
Jarrett is going to be a me-first player. Just picture his reaction after being told he is going to have to compete to earn his way into the rotation by Mangini on the first day of camp, and then on the last day of camp being told his role as a slot reciever in goal line formations. IF he was even able to win that job.
Come on, not just him but any wideout available at 25, would be a horrible use of that pick. Jets have too many needs, must find a starter with that pick.
You have to pay him first round money and at best he would be a third down reciever this year, at a position that is the deepest on the team. Makes no sense at all. Sorry.
If they do not move up for Carriker, which looks less likely after the recent rash of signings, predict Offensive line again. Boring but effective.
If not OL, inside linebacker.
These needs have not been addressed and are much more important at this time than wideout,TE or CB.
Don’t know why anyone is discussing WR. I’d rather trade the 25 than take a WR there. Chad needs protection and the D needs a LB, run stopper DL or a CB because they have little depth there. I could see a TE if the best player available is TE at 25 and that could help protect Chad by using more 2 TE sets. Also TE is not a deep position and Baker being out for a time would hurt a lot more than people think. Maybe one of the new DE can play TE.
As I’ve posted before, I’d like Greg Olsen if he’s still available at 25. TE is now considered a skill position as important as WR and Baker is solid, but unspectacular. Olsen has all the measureables and the Jets need a red zone weapon. But, assuming he’s not available and Jarrett is available, I’d draft Jarrett in a heartbeat. He’s 6′4″, 220 lbs., has great hands, amazing leaping ability and was a clutch performer. Yeah, he’s slower than all of the CBs he’ll be facing (by the way, most WRs are slower than CBs), he’s also at least 4″ taller, 10-15 lbs. heavier and can out jump any of them, that’s why Scouts Inc. calls him “an extraordinary red zone weapon.” He’s nothing like Mike Williams, who stupidly left USC after his sophomore year and, after a year layoff, got drafted by the Lions, who could suck the talent and desire out of Wayne Chrebet. Jarrett was at USC for all 4 years and stayed in for his senior year despite not having anything more to prove and losing his QB. If you like comparisons, how about Jerry Rice? He didn’t crack 4.60 in the 40 either. Lastly, I think the Jets will play it safe and probably draft an OL, like Grubbs. But, the Jets need a reliable no. 3 WR (not just a 3rd down guy) and Jarrett would be a great fit.
I agree that on the face of it, it’s tough to justify taking a 3rd receiver with the 1st round pick. I’d rather go defensive front seven or CB. The one caveat, though, is that Schott could throw out some beastly plays and formations if we had a high-quality #3. Could you imagine 3 good WR’s, Thomas Jones, and Leon all getting in the act? You can beat teams by stopping them… or you can just outscore them. Either way works.
But my beef isn’t so much with taking a WR, it’s with considering taking Jarrett. He’s got HUGE bust potential. Look at recent highly drafted WR’s who were busts. Nearly all of them (David Terrell, Mike Williams, Reggie Williams, Travis Taylor, etc.) were productive Wr’s in college with big-time programs. So why did they fall flat in the NFL? Because they couldn’t get separation from pro-caliber CB’s. It’s not about speed as much as quickness – being able to flash to a spot before your CB can recover, and then create yards after the catch. That’s not what Jarrett has ever been about; he’s simply outjumped and “out-physicalled” his competition in college. That won’t work in the pros.
Last point: people talk about how amazing DJ’s production has been. Here’s a 2006 comparison between him and a couple of other WR’s in the draft who’ve been considered lesser talents (at least until Jarrett’s waddle this week):
DJ: 70 catches, 1015 yds, 14.5 ypc, 12 TD
Robert Meachem: 71 catches, 1298 yds, 18.3 ypc, 11 TD
Dwayne Bowe: 65 catches, 990 yds, 15.2 ypc, 12 TD
Sidney Rice: 72 catches, 1090 yds, 15.1 ypc, 10 TD
Point is, Jarrett was a very good college player… but not uniquely good. And he didn’t face the caliber of CB’s that the SEC WR’s did either. Just say no to Jarrett.
Jarrett does have great hands and size/strength, but actually he struggles to get open against press coverage.
Still, his lack of speed did not prevent him from burning Leon Hall, a potential first round CB prospect.
Meachem, Bowe and Rice are all very impressive too. That’s why I’d prefer to wait if we are drafting a WR early at all, because someone pretty good (there are plenty of others) might fall to us in the 2nd.
I guess following that logic, I should be all for the Olsen pick, because the drop off from him to the next best might be greater than at any other position of need. However, I am a bit luke warm to the idea based on what I saw from Olsen on the field during the last couple of years.
Inside linebacker is a need area for sure, but I don’t see anyone that represents good value in the first round, unless the Jets believe Willis or Poz could handle the enforcer role alongside Vilma.
I haven’t made my mind up about the first round yet. The later rounds I am more comfortable with…
I think we’d all like to see the Jets get a run-stopping DE or RILB, but there will be nobody who fits that description at no. 25 in the first round. And, judging by the Jets FA pick ups, they don’t think so either. Because Tangini were somewhat conservative in last year’s first round, they may stay with a “safe” pick like at OL like Grubbs, Staley, Blalock, Ugoh. But, lots of posters want a CB and if we’re talking “bust” potential, any CB taken at 25 has extremely high bust potential. The only “elite” CB prospect is Leon Hall (who Bent points out was undressed by Jarrett to the tune of 205 yards and 2 TDs in the Rose Bowl), the rest are simply not better prospects than anyone the Jets already have on their roster, like D. Miller and Coleman. This is considered a good draft for safeties and Reggie Nelson might be a great FS pairing with Rhodes, but that means giving up on E. Coleman and Smith, both of whom I think have promise. Olsen is now slated to go mid-round, so he won’t be available. I think Grubbs will be and I could live with him or Staley or Blalock (I’m not an Ugoh fan because he’s not known as a good run-blocker, which is critical in an RT), but if Jarrett is on the board, I’ll be a little upset. Scouts Inc. gave him a 95 prospect rating, tying him for 12th best. Snagging a talented guy like Jarrett, who the Jets could use because they need a 3rd WR, would be a mistake. Bent, I think every college WR has a learning curve when it comes to press coverage, but Jarrett would be a no. 3 WR, initially, and would not face press coverage. And, if his college career is any indication, if you lay off of him, his precision patterns, great hands and leaping ability make him a real weapon. Also, pound4pound, your stat comparison was unfair. Besides being banged up and missing one game and being unproductive in 3, Jarrett also didn’t have Matt Leinart passing to him in 2006, in 2005, he had 91 receptions, for 1,274 and 16 TDs with a 14 yd. avg., in my book that’s exceptional production and Leinart is the same type of precision passer as Chad, who I’m sure would like a 6′4″ target that could get to most jump balls. Like I said, Jarrett would be a perfect fit.
I am not convinced the Jets are staying at #25. But…
If the Jets decide to stay in the #25 spot OT Joe Staley would be a great addition. The Jets would have the core of a dominant offensive line for the next 7 years.
But if the team decides to target WR then I hope Sidney Rice is still available. He may take 3 years to develop, but his upside is huge! If Rice is gone, and if Jarrett has the “Mangini intangibles”, then I say take the chance and pull the trigger. Even slow WRs burn CBs regularly in today’s pass friendly NFL where almost all QBs complete >60% of their passes. Plus the guy should be a real weapon in the red zone.
Stay away from CB and TE!
CBs – Quality CBs with good size can be had later. Pass defense in today’s NFL is more about technique and coverage schemes, not shut-down athletic ability. There are very few Champ Bailey’s in the NFL and likely none in this draft. The team has a need, but chasing it early is a mistake.
TE – Most of the talent seems to be mid-tier and I suspect Olsen stands out because the competition at the position is weak this year. He does NOT seem to be one of the elite receiving TE talents like:
Antonio Gates
Kellen Winslow
Vernon Davis
I agree that the team could use a #2 receiving TE to pair with Baker in the 2 TE sets, but if there is a guy worth drafting they need to be patient.
Love the Deebo reference! Has anyone heard about this kid Sabby Piscitelli out of Oregon? First off he may have one of the best names in the enire 2007 draft and he sounds like a beast. I noticed him on the link for players whose stock has risen, the list him as a strong saftey, but he sounds like a very versatile player and we know how Mangini loves those versatile guys. Here are some of the highlights from the scouting report………….”He has done everything possible in the post season to prove he is an elite athlete.”………….”During the 2007 NFL Combine he ran a 4.52 second 40 yard dash, which is good in itself, but his 10 yard split time of 1.50 seconds was tops for all the defensive backs, corners and safeties alike. Impressive to say the least for a 6’ 2†224 pound prospect. He continued to marvel scouts at Oregon State’s Pro Day where he ran 40’s ranging from 4.37 to 4.44. He also did 21 bench reps and also did position drills.”
Pretty impressive stuff.
The more I read the more convinced I am that the best long term pick would by offensive line, either Grubbs, Blalock or Staley, whichever is there.
Jarrett does not have the “Mangini intangibles”, do you really think he will accept a third down role? Because that is what he will be, a third down slot reciever. Why waste a 1 pick on a guy that will be on the field only 33% of the downs?
Olsen is one dimensional, for the same reasons as Jarrett I am against. And talk about production, where is Olsens?
O Lineman have the lowest bust potential. Plug one of the above mentioned in for the next 8 years and guess what, the Jets red zone effeciency will improve dramatically with the ability to run the ball.
O Line, I am convinced.
Sabby’s good…he’s been on my radar all year. Good size and athleticism combo, makes plays, good leader, hits hard. Great value in the 3rd.
If you told me six months ago we could get DJ at 25, I’d have been all over it. Rice too. I thought they would be potential top five picks (Rice maybe was, but came out after his redshirt sophomore year). So, if you’re one for ignoring combine numbers and basing it all on on-field performance, there you go.
By the same criteria, I never would have considered Olsen it the first, although his combine numbers add intrigue. Bowe and Meachem looked like great value when they were projected third rounders, but now are about where they should be IMO.
SD99’s point about DJ not dealing with press coverage if he’s not a number 1 or 2 WR is actually something about I was thinking as I wrote the comment! He doesn’t strike me as a prototypical slot-type receiver though.
Reggie Nelson is unlikely IMO because he’s a bit cocky and not an intelligent reader of the game, relying more on his great recovery speed and often overpursuing or overhitting trying to make the big play. For safeties, I think the second tier prospects could be better value this year and there are many (including Sabby) that I like.
Coleman and Rhodes are both Free Safeties really and the Jets ideally could do with a fifth linebacker type run supporter in the box. Smith is more of a strong safety, but I don’t doubt the Jets would take someone faster if they fell to them in one of the middle rounds.
Agreed on CBs. Mangini seems to have a knack for getting good play from cheap low cost options at that position, maybe a bit like the Falcons do with offensive linemen. It’s true too that the learning curve is very steep, so would any first day pick beat out the likes of Coleman and Miller? We should be looking for surefire upgrades. That’s what I’d do anyway!
I’ve been meaning to make this point, but forgot. I’ve been saying that the Jets need a better redzone threat because the Jets were dismal in redzone TD pct. last season. The Jets were 20th, with a 45.8% – TD%. I expect that Thomas Jones would improve things, but a 6′6″ TE (like Olsen) or a 6′4″ WR (like Jarrett) combined with the running threat would really help, immediately. So, when I see the Jets’ “needs” redzone help is one of them. Rice could be a good weapon, too; but, he’s a bit thin and needs to bulk up (nearly 6′4″, but only 195 lbs.). Bent, if you thought a bulkier Jarrett would have problems in press coverage, Rice would have real problems hand-fighting at the line and he’s no help in the running game, while Jarrett is an excellent run-blocker.
Hey, don’t shoot the messenger, I was just repeating what the scouts are saying ;o) (Note: some of them are saying it about Calvin Johnson too)
Rice is more of a project anyway IMO, but he sure can run with the ball and I think he should be able to add weight with no trouble.
FWIW I’ve been saying we needed a WR with decent size since Keyshawn left. I even advocated taking a late round flyer on Colston last year!
If you’re prepared to wait, there are a couple of decent big guys that will come out next year too.
We don’t need a wide receiver at #25, also picking a CB that late is just like picking J-Miller all over again. I think drafting O-line or LB is the right way to go, also if the versatile beast jarvis Moss is there we should definetely take him. If Jarrett were there he would be a nice asset in the redzone. He is not a me-first type of guy. If you knew him you would agree with me ;). He is a bit like Rice in that he didn’t run fast-40 times. But he has great game speed. Also remember that Coles isn’t getting any younger he is almost or is 30. Plus since he is slow he won’t out-run Chad’s lob passes, which is a good thing. Remember it is tough having all your money on just a few positions. If all our 1st rounders are O-linemen then what happens when their contracts are up? Lets see if we can get Pozluszny or Moss even Grubbs or Blalock!
With Bowens, I’d think that it’s unlikely that the Jets will draft a hybrid LB/DE like Moss…where would he play? I think the Jets weakness is at RILB, where the Jets don’t have the type of versatile LB that can play the run and the pass. Unfortunately, this is an awful draft for ILBs, which is why Patrick Willis has shot up most draft boards. Posluszny could play inside and maybe he could be the answer, I’m just lukewarm about his NFL prospects, but he is the type of “high character” guy that Tangini like.
If we have or OLB in Bowens, then I am convinced that Hobson moves inside. He’s a better option anyways than an undersized rookie to pair with Vilma. I don’t think the Jets go ILB until late in the first day or second day.
Fortunately, there is no panic on the part of Tangini. They will take the player in the draft with the greatest value that falls to 25. After winning in a year with a lot of change in management, coaching, schemes, and players and retaining all the key components for another run I’m sure they’re confident they will see a lot of improvement going into next season, even without making any blockbuster offseason moves. Don’t be surprised if the team out-perfoms last years 10-6 record with basically the same talent, albeit improved talent.
I agree with you, Jeff, re Jarvis Moss (or Spencer). I think OLB should still be the Jets number one priority in the first round. The guys they have added (Bowens and Wadsworth) are insurance in case the right guy doesnt fall to #25. Adding a good OLB prospect will help the pass rush and will add flexibility and depth to the entire LB unit. Hobson can toggle between ILB and OLB or replace Barton inside if the Jets decide to cut or trade him.
CB is a need, too, but is too risky. And there are plenty of good OL prospects (Manny Ramirez projects all over the board depending on which Mock you look at) for the Jets to take one at #25.
Will,
We all see things differently, but essentially feel the same. I think you can get a pro bowl quality offensive lineman at pick 25, then take a Quentin Moses type in the second round.
They are pretty deep at LB now, they remain incredibly thin of offensive tackle (most of back ups project as guards).
Nonetheless I now trust Tangini to have a plan and execute it. They know which back ups they are most confident in and which starters they are happy with, all of our opinions are well intentioned but uninformed as compared to the data they have.
I finally trust management to make the correct long term decision, first time I can say that as a Jets fan.
wayne – absolutely. but its a long way to the draft so we need something to talk about :)
Nothing would surprise me. I can see them taking an O-lineman with two of the first four picks. I will be disappointed if they dont take at least one on the first day. I agree, O-line is the team’s most glaring weakness but I would rather they got a guard who can at least step in and rotate with Kendall and Moore.
I dont think Moses will be there at #59 and in any event i dont think the Jets would draft him.
Bent I’m surprised that NY didn’t take a stab at Colston last year but that just proves you can get some receiver even in the 7th round.
The Jets will probably move McCareins . Don’t forget Brad Smith is on the bench and we have a 3rd string QB now. There may even be a good WR at a later pick.
Good point about drafting all the same positions so close together Jeff. I have a feeling that in the long run that won’t matter. Just because they took 2 OL high last year doesn’t mean they can’t or shouldn’t do it one more time. They aren’t the only picks that are already contributing. No matter who they sign will in be in contract situations a few years from now but the idea is to pay (keep) the people that matter. I disagree that saying the CB at 25th spot will be comparable to J. miller is a viable way to evaluate a player. Year by year the draft is sweeter at different positions.
Ultimately I just feel that D is more important this year and red zone, or scoring, was not their worst problem, defense was. In 2006 Jets O was 4th in 3rd down conversion, 9th in time of possession, and in my estimation will have more yards and/or TD this year because they will have a running back – improving their passing game automatically.
I’m guessing Aaron Ross if he’s there but I don’t think he will be; partially because he’s also a kick returner (Mangini must like that Biggest reason though for D, and mainly a good CB or LB, is turnovers. Jets broke even in the TO +/- in 2006 and had very few takeaways with 25; 9th worst.
Always the worst part for me is waiting for what the other teams do because ultimately that determines who you get.