TJB Chat Hijack: ESPN 5/29
Thanks again to zenlaw for passing along some chat transcripts, these are from 5/29 on ESPN.com.
Justin (Queens, NY): Jets will shock the world and win the division away from the Pats this year. Mark it down. Brady & co. will not be able to slow the Mangini Regime. It’s all about character.
Chris Neubauer: I agree with you if you were talking about 2008. The Patriots will win the AFC East this year and the Super Bowl.
Brian Bassett: I see your point about character, but in the coming years, don’t be surprised to see some more players like Corey Dillon, Rodney Harrison, etc once the team is more established. As far as the Pats, with very little disturbance to the coaching staff, signing one of the best free agents on the market, Adalius Thomas, to their weakest personnel grouping, and the addition of an armament for Tom Brady at receiver, the only weak link I see is their running game, which won’t matter this season anyway. As much as I would love to see the Jets win the division, I have to think it will be very tough, they’ll get their first crack at the matter Kickoff Sunday.
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Justin (Queens, NY): Have you scouted Kellen Clemens? Do you think he takes the reigns from Chad within 2 years?
Chris Neubauer: Chad Pennington keeps his job as long as he stays healthy and productive. But Clemens was drafted by the Mangini-Tannebaum regime with the idea that he will be a franchise QB some day. So if Pennington gets hurt this season, the Clemens era could begin sooner than you may think.
Brian Bassett: Two questions in one day huh Justin? Nice work! And don’t think I haven’t caught on to your fixation with Clemens. I would have to agree with Neubauer again, clearly you don’t draft a guy in the second round if you don’t want to turn the franchise over to him eventually, key word being eventually. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it, and Pennington currently ain’t broke.
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Aaron EUGENE: Will the Jets find anyone to work their D Line? It seems like they are just signing anyone they can; how long until Courtney Brown and the Cleveland, I mean Denver, D Line comes over to the Jets too?SportsNation Matt Williamson: Yeah, I hear ya bro. I respect that they are trying to make changes to a DL that really needed work, but they haven’t brought in anyone who gets you excited. They finally do have some tough guys that fit the 3-4 well though and should get some stoutness at the LOS with this group…but I don’t see any pass rush and their NT situation is scarey as well.
Brian Bassett: First off, Matt, please spell S-C-A-R-Y correctly, you work for the worldwide leader, after all, yeesh. If you take a look at the free agent market for tackles and ends, there weren’t a lot of good players out there. According to ESPN’s rankings, no free agent lineman ranked better than 78 out of 100, which puts the top talent in the “Good Starter” range. If you take a look at the first round of the 2007 Draft, at least six players (seven if you count Anthony Spencer) who play D-Line were taken in the first round. I don’t blame the Jets for their strategy, but I do agree that their line needed some drastic changes. Many argue that D-Rob improved last season, and I would agree, is he a protypical 3-4 nose? I won’t say that.
As far as the pass rush … umm are you serious? This is a 3-4 Matt, ends do the dirty work for the ‘backers … the Jets had 35 sacks in 2006, the last functional year, in 2004 the team had 37, not too bad for year with a new system, compared to a year when they had two of the league’s best bookends in John Abraham and Shaun Ellis. Allow Bryan Thomas and Victor Hobson a little more grace until we see if the defense can provide a leap this season.
The hope is that Kenyon Coleman can provide the needed starting oomph to the line along with some of the vets they have brought in for rotation work, coupled with David Harris taking on guards more effectively.
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Rob, Green Bay: Which team’s offensive line has the best young talent?SportsNation Matt Williamson: Tough call-Clev comes to mind right off the bat. So does NYJ. Zona has some good young talent. TBay does too. Who am I missing?
Brian Bassett: The Jets line is “young” and potentially “best” at two spots, but with some room for growth, and some need for long term replacements at Guard and Right Tackle. I know you probably don’t want to see this, but the Pats have a fairly young group of players under 30, and have them all locked up for at least two years. I really don’t have the energy right now to look around the league and see what else is out there, sorry.
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If you go by the comments of some of TJB visitors the Jets do not have the best young talent on OL. I see several people complaining about D’brick it’s a little annoying to me; considering it was his rookie year. I guess you just can’t make some people happy.
I think, regarding the D as a whole and the D-line more specifically, they did improve but as a unit and to each individual they believe in this system which really is almost as important as having great talent. We all know from the Redskins you can have all the talent in a poor system but it gets you nowhere. Without commitment and belief in the coaches and scheme the end result won’t be good.
Lastly, I’m surprised that you don’t like the Pats running game Bassett because Laurence Maroney performed very well in his Rookie year. I anticipate he’ll get a bit better this year. Oh and anyone can hate the Pats but they have a video podcast on their website for their cheerleaders who just shot their calender in the Caribbean…only my Windows Media Player wouldn’t play it so I can’t say if it’s worth the bother.
I agree with Bassett about the Pats’ running game. Maroney could go either way. He could improve (as RK thinks) or he might have been exposed during the playoffs as a fumbler without the stones to perform in big games. Also, I disagree with Bassett about the Pats not needing a running game. I’ve posted this before, but Randy Moss’ stats outdoors, in the cold, are below average. The harsh east coast weather could neutralize Moss’ deep threat capability (and some think he’s lost a step anyhow) and with a mediocre running game, the Pats’ offense could struggle. Unfortunately, the Pats’ defense has improved, so the Pats may still be able to eke out low-scoring victories.
On an unrelated note, the Panthers’ Kris Jenkins is unhappy and wants to be traded. He’s the huge, run-stopping behemoth (6′3″, 334 lbs.) that would be perfect for the Jets (and I’m a huge D-Rob supporter). I’d gladly trade a no. 1 pick for a DT like Jenkins, who will turn 28 this year.
I had heard Jenkins has been seen recently and people think he is close to 380.
http://www.charlotte.com/508/story/133274.html
With any luck (or maybe we don’t need luck at all) Moss and Stallsworth will be out half of the 2007 season with hamstring injuries just like in 2006. Those two guys aren’t really that durable, and along with Maroney who just had surgery I think that the Pats offensive skill positions may fall to the injury bug. Who knows though, we just have to see how it plays out, but I would love to see the Jets come at them hard in the opener and really wear the Pats down
Jenkins would be great to have in the middle, but is he worth a 1st? I think he’s injury prone as well.. What’s the DT prospects look like next draft class?
Jenkins is injury prone, out of shape and not the player he once was. I’d rather not give up a high pick for him but if we can get some sort of return on one of the guys that are surplus to requirements anyway, maybe add that to a mid-rounder.
Not convinced he’ll be a great upgrade over Robertson and doubt the two could play together on every down.
Bassett, obviously, at 380 lbs., Jenkins would be way overweight and that would exacerbate his injuries…he missed most of 2 seasons with knee and shoulder injuries. But, he is rated a 92 in Scouts, Inc. and he’s a 3-time Pro Bowler, which puts him at the top of the NFL for DT. IMO, there would be nobody at DT that the Jets could draft next season that would match Jenkins, if he’s in shape and motivated. Here’s Scouts, Inc.’s take:
Jenkins is huge, very powerful and had been very mobile before suffering a string of injuries. He has a very thick, wide body and he can eat up space with the best of them. He has a massive, very strong lower body and exceptional upper-body strength. He gets off the ball low and with power. He has very powerful hands and is quick to shed. He had outstanding movement skills for his size when healthy. He was equally adept at shooting gaps or tying up multiple blockers. He ran well and wasn’t confined to a phone booth. He could close on the ball with burst and was an explosive tackler. His lateral quickness and change-of-direction ability were well above-average for the position. He has a variety of pass-rush moves, including a quick swim and a powerful rip. He can knock back almost any interior offensive lineman with his bull rush. But Jenkins’ durability is an enormous concern. He missed most of the last two seasons because of serious knee and shoulder injuries. He might be more prone to stamina issues and carrying extra weight after the injuries. He occasionally took a play off and would get upright, even when healthy.
Bent, Jenkins played all 16 games last season and still hasn’t hit his 28th birthday. He and D-Rob could play together in a 4-3 alignment, in a 3-4, Jenkins could play RDE on running downs and short yardage and, in any event, D-Rob and Jenkins could probably use a rest now and then during a game. Having Jenkins and D-Rob would be a nice problem. Bent, you probably know better than I do, but next year’s draft is supposed to be weak, the Jets hopefully will have a late-round pick and, in any event, DT’s with the size and speed of Jenkins usually don’t last too long (but, Jenkins was a 2nd rounder, so you never know). Maybe he’s not worth a 1st rounder, but a 2nd rounder? I at least hope Tannenbaum is making some calls…maybe the Panthers want McCareins?
And, he did make last year’s Pro Bowl, after 2 injury-riddled seasons.
I mean the 2007 Pro Bowl, based on last season’s play. I think he’s a flat out stud with 3-5 years of good football left, but I believe in the Planet Theory, and Jenkins at 6-4, 335 lbs, fits the bill.
My hope was that Jenkins could play DE alongside Robertson, so I am pleased you think this is possible. That being the case, he would be a good option, but I’m still not keen on giving up a high pick. 330 pounders are not necessarily limited to the NT position as guys like Robaire Smith and Alan Branch show, but most people would look at Jenkins as a replacement for Robertson, which is kind of the angle I was considering.
When I say Jenkins is injury prone, I did mean over the course of his career. I knew he played 16 games last year but so did Pennington and I guarantee you many people will still consider him to be injury prone (not that I necessarily agree!)
I stand by the not-as-good-as-he-once-was comment, because last year’s probowl selection was a surprise and it is widely acknowledged that he was more dominant in the past. Remember, Lynch was a probowler last year, so maybe Jenkins got there partly on reputation? I can’t say I saw enough of him to make a judgement (sic) so I’m going on what I’d read.
Next year, there are some pretty decent NT prospects (Okam and Bryant), but by then we’ll have a better idea of whether D-Rob can cut it (I know you share my hope that he can). We may end up more interested in a Chris Long or Tyson Jackson to put alongside him at DE.
Because I fell in love with the “Sack Exchange” Jets of the ’80s, I’m partial to the 4-3 and I wish that Mangini made the 4-3 the Jets’ base defense. But, I believe in Mangini and if he’s convinced the 3-4 is better, that’s fine with me. A front 4 of D-Rob and Jenkins at DT and Ellis and Thomas/Coleman/Bowens at DE/OLB would be a tough front 4 and Vilma would be back at his natural MLB position, but that ain’t happening.
I like 4-3 too, especially with our personnel, but 3-4 is better if you’re building for the long term because pass rushing 4-3 ends are so expensive. I think hybrid schemes are the way to go and agree that someone like a Jenkins might fit well within that, but I’m also excited to see how the guys we have now shake out this offseason.
Article indicates Jenkins has had drinking problems in the past, when combined with being out of shape and huge contract demands, makes it highly unlikely he will be a Jet.
As unlikely as Mangini ever running a base 4-3.
All these reporters at the camp and not one mention of K Coleman or Robertson’s weight(as in, has he bulked up?), two of the most interesting stories.