As Chad Struggles, The Foundation Shakes
I watched Mangini’s pressers after the game Sunday and then on Monday and found it striking that he called out some players for their ineffective play, but not Pennington.
While that may indeed be the case, there is a much bigger issue at hand. As Mangini defends Pennington, he’s also defending himself.
Mangini’s mantra is that if you work hard – and then harder still – you will be successful. By all accounts, Pennington is the first player at the facility in the morning and last to leave in the evening. He knows the playbook inside and out and embodies everything Mangini preaches — intelligence, toughness, work ethic, loyalty, etc.
Pennington is the personification of the Mangini player ideal. That fact alone makes this situation bigger than a quarterback controversy as Pennington’s unsuccessful run this season shakes the Mangini regime at its foundation. If you can’t fix the problem with hard work, then what do you do?
A Pennington benching will have reverberations far beyond the depth chart. It will put Mangini’s philosophies into question.
Filed under: Main Page, Opinion
Drack, interesting analysis. Larry Hardesty (sp?) on 1050 ESPN Radio said before the game that Mangini is reluctant to bench Chad because of the Kendall situation. His thesis was that Mangini took a hit in the lockeroom when the Kendall situation was botched and Chad is even more popular than Kendall was. So, he reasoned, that benching Chad could cause Mangini to lose the team.
If that’s the case, young Eric better realize that the players respect winning more than anything and if he thinks (like many of us) that the Jets have a better chance of winning with KC, then he should make the change. Heck, he had to cut high character guys like Schelegel and Wadsworth; it only gets harder the better and more veteran the player.
M is between a rock and a hard place. Your points are well taken, but one of Mangini’s main selling points to players is that everyone gets a fair opportunity, allegedly the best player plays.
He will lose complete credibility, not only with his players but around he league, if he stubbornly continues to play ineffective veterans over promising young players, not only at QB but all positions.
I do not pretend it is an easy situation, which is yet another reason to trade Chad and smooth Clemens path to starting NFL QB.
I can not believe there is not an offer on the table, they need to take the best one available and move on. Best for all involved.
how about his playing the best players philosophy? seems to a lot of us that chad isn’t getting the job done.
if chad isn’t the issue, then make other changes. the fact he isn’t changing anyone else around chad suggests it’s all BS to protect chad bc people love chad. this reaks like the vinny situation all over again. everyone loved vinny and didn’t want to see him benched. yet our play improved 1000% once the change was made.
MAKE THE CHANGE.
If the best player plays, then Mangini is violating his own rule by playing 50 QB rating Chad. There is something wrong with Chad. Arm, shoulder, eyesight. Don’t know what, but his selection of who to throw to is horrendous. Everyone was doubled covered onn Sunday. How can that be. Schott also has to be questioned. The two calls at 3rd and 1 have to be seriously questioned. You go for the pass on third and the run on 4th. Or run the ball twice with TJ.
And the defense has been nothing to rave about either. Can we cover a WR please???? and tackling?? Why do the JETS have an aversion to tackling?? If the JETS do not replace CHAD, then we will go 1-15 and battle the Dolphins for the #1 pick.
If there ever was a time to replace Chad, now would be great. They play Cincinnati and Buffalo over the next two weeks, two teams with horrible defenses. That should give enough time to ease Clemens into the starting role before facing Washington, and then there’s the bye week after that. The season’s already lost, so they might as well see what they have with him.
I think one of the toughest things here is that Mangini knows once he makes the switch, they will never ever go back to Chad (aside from an injury to KC). In effect, Chad’s Jet career as a starter would be done.
Because of how popular Chad is in the locker room, the respect the commands from all the vets (Coles, etc.) and how much Mangini appreciates his hard work and intangibles, I think they’re giving him every chance to pull it back together before they discard him forever.
As was previously stated, the way the Kendalll situation was handled may have some vets questioning the loyalty of the coaching staff to the players. If they just jerk the ultimate good soldier out, how will the other players react? Will they want to play for such a coach?
I think Mangini may have to sacrifice this season, give Chad all the rope he needs to hang himself, to ultimately earn respect long term of the young core he’s trying to build. Just a thought.
I’m not sure I follow your argument. Chad is not young. Mangini drafted a QB in the second round of his first draft. And at the time it made alot of sense because Chad was coming off his second shoulder surgery and could have been done right out of the box. Instead, Chad recovered and bought time for Mangini and Clemens (last year’s 16 starts). If anything, Mangini hangs his future with Clemens not Chad Pennington.
I dont understand why anybody doesnt think it makes the most sense for the Jets to see if Clemens represents the future for this franchise or if they should turn to someone else. They will, after all, likely have a very high draft pick next year.
R in Ct. Good post/thoughts. Your argument makes sense. Unfortunately, due to his mistake, Mangini now has the situations reversed. He should have caved on Kendall and now just bench Chad.
Mangini is paralyzed right now and I’m surprised he’s thinking so much about the change. It just shows how much he’s changed. He suddenly cares about what the press thinks about him and he’s not making decisions based on what is right for winning. He’s complacent and protecting his success — in the process he’s ironically eroding it.
The change is coming, at the latest after the bye.
Mangini has to realize that Clemens has only a four year deal. Experts agree you need 25 games or so to accurately gauge a QB in the NFL. If you change now he will have 26 games under his belt going into the final year of his deal, enough time to judge him fairly.
If you let Chad play out the string to keep the other vets happy you are hurting the teams future, a team that likely will not include many of the exact vets he may be concerned about.
This is simply a case of coach in denial. It is time for Mr T to slap him upside the head and demand he play the draft pick.
Two of the vets who seem to favor Chad, Cotch and Coles, are, ironically, the ones who are most at risk of injury because of him.
Jeff i -
To the contrary, I think your logic that he listens to the press is wrong. This whole thing shows he doesn’t care what the press thinks … If he was listening to the press, Clemens would be starting already. Maybe Mangini does actually care what the players think.
Mangini & Tannenbaum are good enough friends that they talk I’m sure on contracts, extensions, etc. I will hang the Kendall situation more squarely on Tannenbaum … as a result of the ugliness and hold out, Kendall was relegated to second team by Mangini but that was a causality of the contract not getting done.
With Chad, this one is on Mangini … he’s the one who has to live with the decision, live with trying to get this team to win this week or this season, and stay with their coach this year and next. He has to afford Chad every effort to either regain the team and his own confidence, or hang himself on his own rope.
Tannenbaum’s job is more long ranging. Sure the pick of Clemens tapped him as the eventual starter, but it’s up to Mangini as to the when. Either way, Mangini’s making tough decisions (whether right or wrong) and getting hung out to dry on them by the press, by the fans, etc. Making tough decisions isn’t the sign of a good leader (just ask our president), but knowing when to make the right one is …
Good post, but what if the team KNOWS Clemens is the better option, yet Mangini continues to favor Chad? Doesn’t that also send a negative message to skill guys who are riding pine in favor of guys that have endeared themselves to Mangini due the nebulous concepts of “good character”?
I’m reserved in my frustration at this point because last year was a good surprise, and I felt expectations were way too high. However, I’m beginning to be concerned that Tangini’s squad looks not only short on raw talent, but soft. Mangini seems to say the right things about the type of player he wants, but, assuming he’s got a roster mostly full of those type of guys, I see no fire, and only moderate talent.
Bassett – my comment about mangini caring about the press is a bit of a non sequitor bc i didn’t mean to tie it to the chad thing although i realize it came out that way.
my point is his approach has changed this year all around. i’m using his interaction with the press as an example. (but not as it relates to the chad QB change). last year, mangini didn’t care about anything the press said or did. now this year, he is “managing” them. he only calls certain reporters by their name. he also refused to do an interview with adam schein bc adam schein said some bad things before the NE game, etc…he’s manipulating the press in his own way. any energy spent on the press outside of simply answering questions is a waste of time.
Love those throwbacks.
Is trying to create trust and authority in the lockeroom more important than winning games? Mangini has decided that the answer to that question is “yes.” He’s giving the team captain and face of the franchise since 2002 every chance to work through his problems and start winning some games. But, when is loyalty to a veteran player foolhardy?
I thought that after the Buffalo game, Mangini should have benched Chad and made it pretextual. He could have announced that the ankle is still bothering Chad and blamed himself for playing him. Then, he would’ve seen what Clemens could do against the Giants, while maintaining the option to bring Chad back when he was “100% healthy.” Now, the change would be permanent and the decision is harder. And, there’s no good time to announce it, unless Chad loses the next 3 heading into the bye week. That’s sacrificing a lot of the season in order to curry favor with the players.
Ok, my bad. Gotcha, jeff i
Yes, the call on second, third, and fourth and one was horrible. But Chad is a gamer, and a proven winner, except in this streak of near misses. I would fix the mess this way: go with a 5-2 defense, run Thomas Jones down everyone’s throat, start David Harris, use a two tight-end set, and give Leon a lot more touches. Hey, Joe W. could throw the ball long, and except for a few seasons, he mostly had losing seasons. At least with Chad in the games, they are close, and maybe we start winning the close ones? We are certainly due. With a few bounces the other way, we beat Buffalo, the Giants, and the Eagles, and they rename the Lincoln Tunnel Pennington Way. On short yardage, I would bring back the single-wing, with Brad taking the snaps, and a guard in the backfield, leading the way. Lastly, everyone, keep the faith: this isn’t that bad a team. Bad breaks happen. Hang on. It ain’t over ’til the fat lady wears a retro jersey.
This thread rocks – much more even and informed than anything else I’ve read about the Chad situation.
One other thought: much as he would hate to admit it now, I have to suspect Mangini sees the Patriots’ ascension in 2001-2004 as the archetype for how he plans to build the Jets. That team built a foundation of smart, character-driven, football-is-life types first, then added in a smattering of high-talent, higher-risk players to sustain a championship level. Start with Bruschi, Vrabel, Troy Brown, Ted Johnson, then add the Corey Dillons once you have the leaders to harness them.
Well, for us, Chad is clearly one of the foundational guys. I wonder if Mangini feels that his impact on the younger players outweighs the need to get Kellen some playing time right away. In other words, though many in the media have portrayed this as a now-vs-future decision, I wonder if Mangini actually sees Chad starting – and being able to continue to have a strong impact in the locker room – as the best solution for building a sustainable winner years down the road.
Agree with Matthew. And I still havent given up on the season. Yes, I agree that by last Sunday 4PM I was shouting out to trade anyone within sight or bench Chad or start KC. But by tuesdays I usually get to the last phase of grief and get my senses back.
My argument. Now I dont go with statistics as-in how many 1-5 teams turned around or how many 1-4 teams turned around in the last thousand yrs, but I do look at the situation. The AFC is in a mess other than top 3 teams. Although we are 1-5, the last wild card team is 3-2 titans. Other than the pats, no one really scares me in our sched. And the pats might have already clinched homefield overall by 13th week. I wanna see 3 more losses before throwing in the towel.
As far as QB change goes, I still trust the HC who knows the whole situation better than any of us. Maybe KC is not showing enough in practice. The only reason to play the next 2-3 games is to win. We can always see how good KC is with the last 5-6 games of the year to decide abt drafting a QB.
Lets not forget all the good Chad can do. Should a few bad games end a QB’s career? Look at Drew Brees.. took him 6 weeks to wake up, but he did. And he’s the best QB right now for that team. I say give Chad a few more weeks to pull out of it. It’s not a total loss, Clemens can still learn a lot just by watching how Chad handles the offense. He’s still one of the smartest QB’s I’ve seen play, and that is all stuff KC can pick up from him, that will help him when he finally gets the ball. And be careful what you wish for, once KC is in, i’m sure we’re in for some severe growing pains. Not everyone starts out like Tom Brady. Some start out like Browning Nagle. (You cant judge KC by the one good quarter in the one game he played. it’ll be different when teams actually prepare to play against him) I’m favor of more aggressive play calling.. GO FOR IT on 4th and 1. What’s there to lose now? And 1 QB Sneak a game is PLENTY. You’re not going to fool ANY NFL team with that 3 times…
Wow, lets all hold hands and sing kumbaya. Hello, do you guys watch the games? Chad is horrible. I feel sorry for him, and the only chance we have is to play Clemens or get some one who can throw over 10 yards. Mangina is a joke. He is contradicting the everyone earns their start mentality of last season. Play Vilma at Safety? Please , he is a great linebacker who has no d line help. Just ask Urlacher in Chi town how things are going this season with injuries plaguing them. Let’s wake up. Change needs to occur. We could win enough games to make it interesting if the team was invigorated with a change, but no we just sit through the same s@#$ every weekend hoping for the best and expecting the worst. It is so sad, so sad. Even the radio announcers dread calling the games with Chad starting. I just don’t get why playing the best player is such a hard decision. I hope Chad sets the NFL record for the most interceptions in one season, so that Mangina can be proud of his guy and we get the number one pick. The rest of our team plays tentative because they know if we don’t have a perfect game that Chad’s arm and Mangina’s playcalling leave us up the creek with no paddle.
So, all you Pennington and Mangina apologists keep singing their praise while the season goes down the drain. Sing on! Louder oh yeah.
Imagine just how much more difficult of a situation would this be for Mangini if Justin McCariens catches one of the dropped TD passes in week 2 which leads to a Jets win in OT in KC’s first start…The whole winning vs loyalty debate is very interesting but if we don’t start seeing Ws, how are we ever going to lock-up Kerry Rhodes?
maybe the jets should have signed vinny testaverde. he ripped it up over the weekend. he is going to be on the boomer esiason show this week and you can ask him questions. check it out here…
http://blogs.msg.com/gameon/2007/10/ask-vinny.html
Starting with the Buffalo game, I find watching Chad excruciating. Every short out, I wonder if it will be jumped. Every pass to Jericho has been made in double- or triple-coverage. Anything to a covered WR more than 15 yards away is delivered so slowly or underthrown that it’s a train wreck waiting to happen. I have always liked Chad, but the Chad these past 3 weeks has made Browning Nagle look like Joe Montana. Is Chad owed the benefit of the doubt? Well, even Joe Montana finished his career with another team, and he had a lot left in the tank. What does Chad have left?
We’ll find out. For all the handwringing, the coaching staff doesn’t enjoy losing. They’ll play who they think is going to give them the best chance of winning. When they think that player is Kellen Clemens, they’ll let you know. Until then, the backup QB will continue to be the most popular guy in town.
pennington is not the reason the jets are dead in the water. he isn’t exactly being helped out by his teammates. bob wischusen thinks he is still very much alive and if he is traded he will be a hot commodity.
http://blogs.msg.com/gameon/2007/10/jets-taking-the.html
Well, the Dolphins front office, with their team going nowhere, traded Chambers to a contender for a SECOND round pick.
He had all of 650 yards receving last year.
Our front office does nothing. Disgusted.
Enjoy Chad next fews games.
Someone call me when they wake up and play Clemens.
R in CT had it right. Chad is a leader in the locker room. He is a foundational player and by benchinh him your clearly ending his career as a starter. Chad has given soo much to this organization, and by dumping him off to another team shows the respect that Mangini has for his veteran players. So you just cant throw all your eggs in one basket and espect everything to ride smoothly. If Clemens sturggles and he becomes even worse than Chad then what is Mangini going to do? This is a high risk decision Mangini has to make. He will stick with Chad for several more weeks, there is light at the end of the tunnel, but if everyone feels otherwise, Chad is the one who knows if he has to back down from his role, which im sure many players in his position dont want to give up so easily.
Also if Mangini plays the “best-player” then during practice Clemens must not be impressing the coaching staff.?
If Mangini waits until the season is completely over and makes the change w/ 4 or 5 games left- Clemens will not get the benefit of playing w/ a team giving a 100%, even though the players and coach will give you the “they are professionals and get payed to play” speach it’s human nature to put it on cruse control for some of the guys especially players that will be free agents and the like. This will not help Clemens growth and for the stats guys, bring his numbers down! Chad has been a loyal player, I personally like Chad but W’s are the bottom line and the change needs to be made sooner rather then later.
The correct thinking goes as follows.
Chad will play the first 10 games, and if by then the Team has no playoff chance he will be replaced by Clemens. The Last 6 games will show to them if Clemens is the QB for Next year.
I have been a Chad supporter but I do see that something is wrong with him. I have no trust in his throws anymore.
The fact is that we do not know exactly what the situation is with him.
Is it his arm? Is it because he is pressing? Is it play calling?
Or a combination of all these?
If it is his arm, then he is done as a QB.
If it is “pressing” then this implies that he has no confidence in our defense or offense.
If it is play calling then it is just that, coaching which could be corrected.
I think Mangini believes that it is a combination of the last two.
The play calling is no good, and that Chad has no confidence on the Team. Things that can be corrected during the season.
But if this is the case, then the question is who is responsible for this?
I can not think of anything other than coaching.
To summarize.
Either Chad’s arm is gone hence he is done, or it is Coaching which means that even Clenmens is not going to make much of a difference or get a good assesment if he is the future or not.
Clearly, Chad has not recovered from is ankle injury. Anyone who knows that if you can’t plant properly, all your balls are going to sail. Let’s try to keep it in some perspective. The Jets aren’t really going to tell the extent of anyones injury but look for yourself at the picture up top. His ankle is seriously taped. Go ahead and complain about his throws. He’s an arm thrower to begin with. Now he can’t shift his weight properly to make the throws he’s trying. Is that people’s reason for canning him? He will improve as his injury gets better. Thank goodness the team doesn’t think like the fans and reporters. And besides, they all know more about it than we ever will. Most of us are too busy being GM’s and HC’s wanting to right the ship now. Give them time I rather have one bad season on route to building a dynasty which takes time, than to poke holes at a good year, bad year quick fix plan.
Sackdance has it right. Watching Chad these days is painful.
I am quickly losing interest in going to the rest of the games this year b/c watching the anemic offense is boring.
Clearly, the Jets coaching staff doesn’t trust Chad because they won’t let him throw a pass over 10 yards. Maybe the coaches don’t like what they see with KC in practice, but they clearly have no confidence in Chad (or the o-line’s protection). Doesn’t it feel like we’ve returned to the Paul Hackett offense?
Lately, Chad’s passing reminds me of Lamar Latrell throwing a javelin.
At some point, when the season is lost for sure and the Jets are playing garbage time, they must start KC just to see if they have a legitimate starter. The Jets might as well use the garbage time constructively.
Broadway Joe,
If the injury is the problem, then sit him out and let Clemens play until Chad’s ankle is better. If he continues to play on the ankle and it is injured, he is not going to get any better. Resting the ankle would make it better.
Lets face it, this has been going on for the last 2 seasons, since the shoulder injury. Last year, we could hide the deficiencies in Chad’s throws, but this year teams are not worried about deep throws at all and are crowding the short passing zone up to 30 yards from the line of scrimmage and blitzing to force him to come out of the pocket with a bum ankle. And honestly, if the ankle is the problem, should he be doing a lot of QB sneaks?