Progress on the 3-4 system?
DE – Kenyon Coleman
DE –
NT –
OLB – Bryan Thomas
OLB –
MLB – David Harris
MLB –
CB – Darrelle Revis
CB –
FS – Kerry Rhodes
SS –
Face it the Tangini Regime is going to be around here for a while. We all know they will not revert back to the 4-3, so above I compiled a tentative list of what spots we have filled for the future in this defense. With tentatively 6 openings, we will be looking to the draft and free agency to fill some. I think NT is our biggest vacant spot, what do you fans think of who can help us fill these voids?
31 Responses to Progress on the 3-4 system?
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Ilan says:
Are we thinking of this towards the future, or this year?
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Matt W. says:
Didn’t the Falcons just drop Grady Jackson? Isn’t he like a gibillion pounds and still mobile? Still his butt in there.
I met Dwayne Robertson in the lobby of the Baltimore hotel this year and was shocked at how small he was. Honestly, when you meet NFL linemen you are usually overwhelmed at some aspect of their size…Dwayne is “shapely” but looks more like an overweight fullback.
Ugh.
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oscarfactor says:
GET JARED ALLEN! He’ll be a free agent in the offseason and is a personality made for New York.
Keep Dewayne Robertson and move him outside, either to replace or split time with K. Coleman.
GET A HUGE nose tackle in the draft – early rounds.
Use Vilma for trade bait – get a CB and LB with the draft picks you receive. If we need another LB, get one in FA or off the scrap heap.
I still think the other Jets safety is currently on the roster – one of the Eric/Erik pair to go along with Rhodes. They will ALL look and play better in the defensive backfield WHEN WE ACTUALLY GENERATE A PASS RUSH!
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Suggs is a free agent next year.
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jet4lif says:
NT’s wont be available just like that. And grady J is not the future. Idea is to pluck starter/backup from some team with whatever we can give and make a serious run for JAred Allen. Maybe trade Vilma for Allen if they franchise him.
I dont think DB need immediate attention as compared to some linemen and a TE. With Clemens, TE will be very important position. -
jesse says:
sign Grady Jackson move Robertson to DE
what’s wrong with Coleman at SS and Hobson at OLB? -
I think Jared Allen is a great player, but he’s 6-6 270. Smaller than any of the DL the Jets currently have. He’s not a good fit for the 3-4 he wouldn’t hold up against the run.
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Grady jackson is 35…………I’m surprised his legs haven’t collapsed.
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When teams find great 3-4 linemen, they hold onto them. Jets will have to build 3-4 line through the draft. This is a strong draft for defensive players. There should be a good 3-4 hybrid OLB at the top of the second.
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Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention, FIRE BOB SUTTON.
Grady would be for this year or could be a future reserve. Jared Allen would be optimal, but they never go after top tier guys. They will end up with like Randy Starks or something and leverage the draft…ugh.
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Rambo says:
I’d be happy with Randy Starks. He was in the 3-4 in college.
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mbi says:
A good 3-4 NT comes along in the draft how many times (im guessing not many). Pick up Grady Jackson and stick him in the middle until one comes along or pick/sign someone in the late rounds whos 900 lbs and let him sit behind jackson for a year or two until he’s ready. Focus the draft picks on college DE’s that are convertible to LB’s, outside backers, and O-Lineman.
Question – why does vilma need to be in the middle? what if they put him at weakside OLB? Or is that a stupid question?
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And what about Albert “I’ll step on your face then eat your baby” Haynesworth? Hes in a 4-3, but is a very large human. I don’t know, looking forward to the off-season is a bad feeling.
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J Roc says:
I think they need to lock up Kerry Rhodes before we only have 4 defensive players suited for the 3-4. Refresh my memory. Did we have the 4th pick in the draft when we selected D-Rob or did we move up from 12? I can’t remember.
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Oh yeah, I think Hobson could play in the middle with Harris. NT and OLB are the most pressing needs on the defense. Both would help stop the run but the OLB needs to be a premier pass rusher. This team gets zero pass rush.
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James in TN says:
lets just pay NE’s defense twice their salaries since we saved so much cap room doing nothing on defense or the o-line. They will be perfect for the 3-4.
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dbatesman says:
The best true NT in the draft would be B.J. Raji of Boston College, but he’s academically ineligible and is redshirting this season, so he probably won’t declare; even if he does, being ruled academically ineligible is not something Mangini will look kindly upon, so he may be out unless he falls into our laps in the 3rd or 4th round.
One longshot: Terrance Taylor of Michigan. A lot of draftniks are calling him the best 3-4 NT prospect since Casey Hampton. He’s built for the position (6’1″, 320), strong as an ox, and uses leverage well. But he’s a junior and the feeling is, he won’t declare this year because Michigan’s defense has taken such a step back. But they’re coming on strong as of late, so maybe he will. For the Jets’ sake, I hope he does.
Honestly, this is not one problem: getting a nose tackle won’t solve everything. We also need serious upgrades at DE and OLB. Fortunately, this draft is deep in those positions. You can bet your bottom dollar the Jets will come out of the 2008 Draft with at least one new DE and one new OLB–which will do wonders for the defense.
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muff says:
suggs isn’t leaving balt. they let thomas go to new england so they could re sign suggs.. no brainer for them
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SackDance99 says:
For the record, Kerry Rhodes is an SS and the Jets have a weakness at FS, but that’s not the problem. A space-eating NT is a must for the 3-4, but it’s both size and technique. A guy like Grady Jackson is great for situational play, but he’s not a pass-rusher anymore. I think Jackson and D-Rob would be a great run/pass tandem. So what he’s 35, part of the Parcells/Belichick formula was to mix vets and young players together. I looked at the draft prospects and there just isn’t a huge 2-gap NT-type around.
But, as much as everyone focuses on NT, the 3-4 is all about the LBs and the Jets need 3 new LBs (assuming David Harris can play). The Jets do not have an ROLB/DE that can rush the passer. There are 2 juniors that may come out who would be excellent ILB prospects. If Mangini could describe the perfect ILB candidate that would espouse all of his “Jets core values” it would be James Laurinaitis of OSU at 6-2, 245 and a reputed 4.55 40, plus all his intagibles, he’s my early draft favorite (if he comes out). With Harris and Laurinaitis, we just pencil them in for the next 10 years. I also like Rey Maualuga, who is a little bigger and slower than Laurinaitis, but may be an even better 3-4 ILB candidate.
There are also many DE or OLB/DE candidates or projects, like Chris Long (Howie’s kid), Calais Campbell (6-7 5/8 with plenty of room to add to his 279 lbs.), Quentin Groves, Dan Connor, etc.
Bottom line, the ILBs have to fill holes and shed blockers better and the OLBs have to pass rush better. Parcells used to say that he liked to build a team from the middle out. Well, the Jets have a weak middle on offense (weak OGs and QB, good C and RB). The Jets have an awful middle of the defense. D-Rob, Vilma/Barton and Coleman/Smith/Elam have been sub-par. I think D-Rob can play and he’s a good pass rusher, but he just does not play the 2-gap well.
A good DC would recognize that and let him 1-gap on the nose, like Klecko and Kelly Gregg (the Ravens play a hybrid 4-3, with Gregg on the nose and Suggs as a hybrid DE/OLB from the right side). I picked Klecko and Gregg because they are both undersized for the nose and 1-gappers. If D-Rob’s job was to blow up the center, instead of read and react, he’d be fine. When he stands up, he’s blocked out of the play…let him penetrate. I thought that’s what the Jets were going to do when they asked him to come in trimmer. He and Vilma have been poorly utilized, as has Bowens, who is a good pass rusher, but rarely plays.
So, getting the new groceries on defense won’t mean anything if we have the same lousy cook. Sutton must go.
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Bent says: mbi – Vilma is about 25 pounds too light to play as a 3-4 OLB where he would have to take on offensive tackles every down. By all means send him off the edge once in a while to catch the offense off guard, but lining him up there would further weaken an already undersized defense, especially against the run.
J roc – I believe we had 22 and 13 and traded them both to move up to 4
Various – Jared Allen is a great pass rusher but is a natural 4-3 end, can earn more money as a 4-3 end and doesn’t have a great character. Highly unlikely, I’m afraid.
Sack – Personally, I think Rhodes is a more natural FS, who plays SS due to the Jets not having a natural in the box safety to pair him with. You definitely have your eyes on the right guys draftwise. Long is a monster. Brinkley is another good ILB candidate but was just hurt and therefore will stay in school. Much bigger (in terms of size, not number) crop of LBs out there this year should equal value later on, instead of having to reach for a Schlegel or trade up for a Harris because there are literally no other decent 3-4 ILBs on the board. There’s a few NTs, but I’d probably rather have a veteran than pin hopes on a rookie.
I actually wanted Suggs in 2003. Sigh.
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Nikolas says:
All these needs will be solved with a single silver bullet. And the silver bullet is……BILL COWHER
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Bernie says:
You really think Bryan Thomas is part of the future?!?!? He hasn’t breathed on a QB since last year. Talk about busts… what a waste that was. Next time wait for a guy to play well more than half a season before giving him a long term deal.
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Dave says:
The Jets defense looks a lot worse than it is because they’re missing the two biggest pieces of a 3-4 defense. Once the Jets get the two gapping space eater in the middle and the blind side terrorizing pass rusher everything else will work itself out.
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Bent, I’m not sure if I want Rhodes in centerfield, I want him on the strong side able to step up on running plays and to pass rush. I like him at SS, like Polamalu.
Dave, even an NT space eater would be susceptible to a cutback run (which the Jets haven’t been able to defense during the Tangini era). The weak side ILB needs to fight off the OG’s seal block and Barton hasn’t filled a hole in a Jets uniform. I’d still draft ILB over NT. But, we agree, the Jets haven’t had an edge rusher since Abraham played healthy some time in 2004. The Giants have 3, maybe 4 if you count Tuck. It’s amazing that BT is the only edge rusher on the Jets’ roster and he’s not that good. A real failure by the front office.
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TOON2388 says:
Just reading this makes me feel better; aside from fires that came within 300 yards of my house, I am flying to NYC for a funeral this weekend – it is Sunday, so it should spare me the agony of more torture watching this team lose games to flawed teams.
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Dean says:
1. Please fire Bob Sutton. Any other team would fire him after this season. My target is Rex Ryan, a close Mangini friend, and someone who appears to be on the outs with the Raiders.
2. Vilma is an excellent football player. The defense should have been designed for him to be sucessfull — whether he’s a fit in the 3-4 or not, he’s better than this. Thus, fire Sutton.
3. CB: hopefully Miller can the guy opposite Revis; DT, Frank Okram is the man and he’s very young; SS, imo, we are ok with Coleman or Smith.
4. Dwayne – if he could play DE, he would be playing that position. He WILL BE a stud when we let him go like many other Jets (see James Farrior).
5. LB — nice job Jets in the draft. We have nobody now and drafted a “boar hunter” and payed Thomas too soon…
Sorry for the rant, but this team is killing me.
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klecko71 says:
hey TOON glad to read all is well with the house. Have friends out there and they got lucky as well. they were horse-shoed….north east and south of them was trouble, but they were spared.
back to the jests….yeah we did trade up for D rob, but everyone thought he was the next big think at tackle….NOT NOSE!!! so yes either we move him to end, we go back to 4-3, or we trade him. and yeah bryan thomas contract extension was lame, but the guy is athletic…its up to the coaches to get more out of him or cut his ass.
and the upcoming draft and free agency will be the most impt one in years for this team
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Bent says:
At 6-1, I doubt Robertson is going to play DE. Not every down anyway.
Extra trivia on the Robertson trade for no particular reason:
Pick 22 was compensation for Coles going to the Skins as a RFA.
When they just had 13, most experts had the Jets taking Boss Bailey.
Robertson only rose into the top 5 in the last few days prior to the draft.
Ty Warren went 13, Rex Grossman went 22.
Michael Haynes, who the Jets cut this year, went 14.
The Jets could have had Polamalu and McGahee.
They also could have had Jerome McDougle and Kwame Harris. -
KevT says:
I would keep Vilma and move him to the outside on the Barton spot; draft for NT or Right DE/OLB in second round. D’Rob is a good 4-3 guy and maybe we could trade him to get value? Oh, and I agree, fire Sutton and hire Rex!
Everyone knows that Nose Tackle is our biggest need. The real geniuses need to figure out where the available nose tackles are in the draft. Frank Okam may be able to play but is probably more suited for DE in the 3-4 due to his height. Other than that, there are no real prospects available who can make an immediate impact.
For the other positions you could run down the usual suspects in the draft, Chris Long, Quentin Groves, Derrick Harvey, Tommy Blake, etc.
I also think the SS has been addressed to the extent that it will be addressed for the short term future. Coleman and Smith seems to suffice for this Coaching Staff.