Buzz: More Smoke To the Jon Vilma Fire
David Hutchinson always does a great job of getting players to trust him with quotes about sticky situations with the team, so credit David Hutchinson for getting more interesting information on the Vilma situation. This is an anonymous quote from one of Vilma’s teammates.
“Vilma doesn’t like this defense and a lot of the guys feel that way,” one Jets player said last night. “You guys in the media like (Vilma) but that’s not the way it is with the organization. He and (coach) Eric (Mangini) aren’t on the best of terms. A lot of the veteran guys think they’re going to be out of here this off-season and Eric is going to bring in his own players.”
The player spoke on the condition of anonymity because he did not want to criticize the head coach on the record.
Last night, while checking in with our buddy MDS, he asked if I thought Vilma was likely to be shipped off this coming offseason. Although I can’t say for sure, basically what I told him was that “where there’s smoke … there’s fire … and there’s more and more smoke here.” With this quote, it’s getting hard to breathe around here.
Until the team starts winning again, there will be more and more questions and more and more leaks on how this regime is run behind closed doors. I had outlined this at the beginning of Mangini’s regime. If he’s going to be tightlipped, he’s going to face tough media pressure if he can’t win much more intense than someone like Herm ever did … welcome to the real New York, Eric.
As I have claimed before, I stoped trusting this regime from the way they handled the Pete Kendall case and the Revis signing.
They were unprofesional if not imature, which disqualifies you immediately from running an NFL franchise.I am afraid that we just waste time. Mangini may one day become a good coach, but not while he is with the Jets. I wish that Woody finds some courage, fire Tennebaum and Mangini and hire Bill Cowher. Only then hope for this franchise can be restored.
I don’t think we should call for their removal just yet. I think they came into this knowing that this was going to be a project. I didn’t think we’d be this bad, but I can see were starting to change over. There are a lot of people who are used to the Herm regime and this must be a different experience.
We’ve been talking all year about how our personnel don’t fit the scheme. I think that they are going to dump a bunch of vets and rebuild. I am ok with this. That group wasn’t going to beat the Pats. I think we need to get younger and more skillful at a lot of positions. So let’s do it and see if they can build a winner.
People were saying the same things about Romeo when he had a starting quarterback who couldn’t get anything done. Now they have good young players and they’re winning.
It’s too early to call for heads now, except for Sutton. He’s proven that he can’t run a D.
Back to work now….
I like Mangini and like his style. I think he’s the right coach, but years like this will be tough for him to weather in a town like NYC.
The problem I think is not the rebuilding, but how we rebuild.
We have to realize that the NEWS spread in the NFL, and NFL players would not be willing to play for these people. So, free agency will not be the venue for getting good players. So what is left is the draft. Now, if we depend on the draft, even if we have excellent drafts this process will take at least 5 to 6 years.
This is, I think a very long time, given that the outcome also is uncertain. How do we know that their draft every year is going to be good? How do we know that the players already in the system would be willing to play for Mangini, etc. There are so many questions and so many things that have to fall right, where I think it does not make it worth it keeping Eric and Mike.
sure tangini has made some missteps but the bottom line is you build through the draft and they have drafted some VERY promising players over the past two years. if clemens turns out to be a success, we can say last year’s draft was awesome. i also think people are being unfair about this year’s draft saying they miscalculated the talent on our team. i don’t see it that way. look around the league and tell me how many rookies are making a real impact/this was a weak draft talent wise. drafting bodies just bc you need more depth of talent is a bad strategy when the talent isn’t there. credit tangini for recognizing it was a weak draft and targeting two stud players. would you rather have harris and revis or 6 mediocre players? they made the best of the situation — you can’t get blood from a turnip.
Bassett, I liked Mangini too last year. I thought he was knowledgable and smart . But now I realize that this was not reality, It was desire.
I have too much respect for players like, Chad, Vilma, Ellis, Kendall etc to think that they are inadequate and that Mangini knows better. If he did, the proof is in the pie, how many adjustments have he made in the second half, in all of our games? Including the W with Miami. “Groundhog day” , seeing the same game sunday after sunday, where the opponents just change jerseys is not a sign of progress either. Forget the play calling and the Xs and Os.
My problem is that while I want Mangini to do well, I want my Jets to do better, and i do not think that Mangini is the man.
I hope that i am wrong. I do. because I love my team.But I doubt it.
“A lot of the veteran guys think they’re going to be out of here this off-season and Eric is going to bring in his own players.”
One can only hope. The fact is Woody J. is obsessed with copying the Patriots model (can you blame him?) and is committed over the long term. Mangini was brought in to institue the system, style, culture of the Pats organiization with the understanding that it could be a lengthy and initially bumpy process. Fact: Mangini isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.
That being the case, the sooner he can turn over the roster of Bradway/Edwards non-conformists the better. Vilma, D-Rob, B. Thomas, Ellis, Hobson, etc. would have been gone on day one of the Tangini regime if not for contract/cap hits and the lack of immediately available replacements. As it is, he got a little lucky last year jamming square pegs into round holes but these players have to play perfect techniqe, with a perfect game plan to overcome the mismatch of skill set to system. They don’t like this defense? Why would they? It’s not suited to their abilities. But guess what? Most of these guys are barley above-average 4-3 players. While maybe not a bust, D-Rob never came close to living up to his hype in the 4-3. Ellis depended on John Abraham’s pressure on the other side to have an impact and he’s a few years older now. Vilma was widely derided coming out of Miami for being too small to be an NFL impact player and maybe got all those tackles because nobody on the D-line was making any? He’s got speed and smarts and could flourish in the right system but it isn’t going to be this one. The team is not going back to the 4-3 because that’s not what Mangini was hired for. Not that they have the players to make that scheme work very well either.
This defense is rebuilding.
That was the mandate when Mangini was hired and the surpise success last year only made it a little harder for the fans to swallow. This team should be trading down, not up, for multiple picks to get more of the kind of players that suit the direction the team is going in. So long Jon V., we hardly knew ye.
More specifically about the Vilma situation, a lot of the smarter fans have been saying that simply changing quarterbacks won’t solve the team’s problems because the defense is more responsible for this year’s failures. Guess what? Mangini just changed the defensive quarterback, too. And with immediate results, I might add. There was obviously a lot of internal discussion about how to make that change as palatable as possible to all parties and limit damage to reputation and career prospects. The result is the mysterious “not career threatening” injury as opposed to the benching of a former rookie of the year who will be in the hunt for a big contract for a new team. Does anybody see it any other way?
“Vilma doesn’t like this defense and a lot of the guys feel that way,”
At least we finally know. The problem is that we will never really know how good Vilma would have been if we had a 4-3 ever since he went to the ProBowl. I believe we can get a 1st rounder for him, since he is an elite player. But the scheme we run again doesnt have the players that fit the scheme. We saw the potential with Harris, Ellis still has the bulk and strength to run the 3-4 so does Coleman. Robertson was arguably the most useless and overrated draftpick ever! I believe Glenn Dorsey is a carbon copy of Robertson so watch out. Our OLB are too slow to play the 3-4 I mean when you see Hobson running at you he doesnt really spell speed-rusher. He should play inside and Barton, I have no clue why he is still here. Bryan Thomas has turned into a waste of cap-space ever since he signed that contract. Our O-line is improving but we still need some key pieces. Our RB is a stop-gap as we draft a replacement in the next couple years. All of this spells rebuilding but no-one wants to say that. Unfortunately the players are faltering not Mangini. You give them the plays and the scheme and its not the coaches fault since its POOR-EXECUTION. Look at the Cincy,Bills, Giants game to see that.
Vilma had great success early in his career. But, remember how McGahee owned him? McGahee ran right at him and over him. Vilma’s great weakness is his lack of bulk; his greatest asset was his speed. As the years went on, Vilma’s play recognition (awful at the cutback), ability to shed blockers (abysmal) and form tackling (not that good at head on tackling, much better laterally) showed that the NFL started to play on his weaknesses. And, under my old name, I posted before the Mangini era began that I thought Vilma was just too small for the 3-4, period. At this point, I do not think that the Jets would get a first-rounder…maybe the Jets could swap him for one of their many needs. Honestly, if the Jets got anything more than a 3rd rounder, I’d be surprised.
The other player that I thought would never fit the 3-4 was Robertson because his knees can’t take the double-team pounding and he’s a good 1-gap DT. D-Rob has motor issues (maybe because of his knees?), but he’s the DL who gets the most consistent upfield pressure. I’m a defender of his because I think the 3-4 could easily be modified to accentuate his strengths…let him 1-gap at NT or bring him in on passing downs or for 4-3 looks. As a contrast to Vilma, who just can’t be fit into the 3-4.
Jeff, the most overrated first round pick in Jets history? How about the no. 4 pick LT, who was hyped as a potential no. 1 pick and can’t run block? Or, going back in history, Blair Thomas, Johnny Lame Jones, etc. At least D-Rob has won 2 AFC Defensive Player of the Week awards…he has talent and has shown he can be a good NFL player. There are numerous top 5 draft picks who weren’t fit for the NFL. D-Rob is not one of them. And, I think Sutton/Mangini’s failure to employ D-Rob properly is one of their major coaching failures.
Most useless and overrated draft pick? Please give Dave Cadigan his due.
My favorite bad 1st round pick was Roger Vick. What team takes a FB in the first round…that’s right, the Jets.
Kyle Brady, Anthony Becht. Need I say more? Worst contract extensions? Ellis (non-factor with out Abraham) and Bryan Thomas. The ridiculous eight year deal Parcells gave Curtis (my favorite Jet ever) Martin was a better deal than what these two non-impact players got.
love the venom!!!! worst pick?? easily roger vick…..
as far as where this organization is headed…we all admit we were spoiled last year. and in the 7 losses, if i am correct we were in every one of em except the pats…and we needed the clemens comeback in the 4th in baltimore. WE HAVE NO PLAYMAKERS ON EITHER SIDE OF THE BALL!!! so get a few and those tough losses become wins again. BOTTOM LINE this offseason is HUGE….gotta draft right, and spend some $$ on quality free agents. B/C next year we aint dealing with this again……
[...] the Jets trying to cover up just how upset linebacker Jonathan Vilma is? If so, I would think it is to keep Vilma’s trade value from plummeting to the ground like a [...]
Slightly off topic here, but anyone looking for us to sign DT Grady Jackson will be disappointed. The Jaguars nabbed him today:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/10/31/2020.ap.fbn.jaguars.jackson.0154/index.html
since when is pete kendall a stand up guy? he may be a good guy with his people but clearly lacks respect for authority. the same thing that happened in arizona with kendall happened here. the only difference is there were no expectations with the cardinals and very little media to blow it up.
how is mangini not the guy?
1. no one even mumbled that at any point last season
2. that wouldn’t even give him or tannanbuam a fair shot in implementing their system with their players.
vilma doesn’t fit this system. D rob doesn’t fit this sytsem. so they move on. I’m a huge pennington guy and hate the fact that he’s taking a ton of heat and probably won’t be a huge part of the 2008 team. but thats the way things are. let them all go to KC with herm. we’ll take salary cap relif and draft picks in return
this needs to be looked at for what it is. every player last year played to their capibilities or above. it was the perfect storm that created unreal expectations for this year. there is no difference between romeo and magini except mangini and the jets got lucky last year. lets give this guy some time to plug in players he wants and needs before we start kicking guys while their down.