Audible: The Quarterbacks for 2008
Ahem … this one isn’t a potential powder keg ready to set off yet again …
How do the Jets need to address this position, if at all this offseason? The Jets have two Quarterbacks, one a gutsy legacy from the past regime with questions on his physical abilities and the other is a young player still trying to find hit a stride.
In total, the Jets QB stats line looked like this:
309 Completions, 510 Attempts, 3294 yards, 15 TDs, 19 INTs
Yeesh … but was it because the line didn’t give them the time they needed to run the offense? Pennington wants to start … should it still be in New York? Is trading Pennington a good thing? Is looking for another young QB to push Clemens in the draft the right move? Should the Jets look for another veteran themselves?
What do you think?
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The Jets need to hold off on accessing Clemens until after this season, Clemens needs a year with a decent line to get an idea of what kind of player he can be. Also, the QB’s in this years draft are less than desirable so I would say this could be a hot topic this time next year. But, hopefully not.
As a longtime supporter of chad, i think it’s essential that he be on the roster next season but does NOT start. The veteran FA QBs are not a very good option this year, and chad would be a more than capable back-up. I think the Jets should listen to trade offers (MIA? MIN?), but can only jump at an outrageous offer. I’m not opposed to taking a QB in the later rounds as a developmental / project QB, but i would be happy to have Clemens and Chad as the 1,2 with someone in the background to develop.
also, chad still has a lot he can teach to Kellen, and although he might not be thrilled with his position on the team, i dont think chad would ever let that get in the way of him coming to work everyday and helping groom Kellen.
i think the logical solution and most likley scenerio is that both will be in camp in 08 competing for the job
Ultimately, I think we have to give Clemens a full season to prove whether he has NFL starter potential. This season didn’t tell us much, given the awful line play and KC stepping into an offense that was built for a very different type of QB. Our goal should be to know by Dec 2008 whether we’ve got a viable starter or not.
Given that, I’m fine with keeping or trading Pennington, but I’m leaning towards trading for a few reasons:
1. Chad wants a chance to start, and there are teams that will oblige him. (CHI, MIN, BAL, PHI, and ATL might all be interested.)
2. He’s going to bring back a lot more value now than he would after sitting another year on the bench (and being a year older).
3. KC and Chad are very different types of QB’s. If we build our offense around Kellen’s strengths this offseason, the team will fit Chad’s strengths less anyway.
I am going to go with the majority (I think) and say it’s too early to make judgments on Kellen (O-line aside). The simple statement I will make is that he is much shorter in stature than I originally thought…if recent (and ancient) history has shown us anything, it’s that tall QBs have a much higher success rate. The game is inherently easier. At the risk of sounding cheesy, there’s something to be said about looking up to your QB and leader.
For Chad, the lack off running game has killed his ability to thrive off the play-action he is known for…this you can blame in the O-line. But the fact that he can no longer throw the out (which is actually a longer throw than it looks) kills his ability to move the ball up the field. These things said, I still think the Jets have a better chance to win with Chad…but if he continues to jeopardize games due it his arm-strength, its time to pass the baton. QB is not the priority for the first few rounds, but if they can find value on day 2, they should draft a guy who will push these other two clowns in camp.
I know this sounds crazy, but I think the regime knows what they are doing. You have to do one of two things: A) Committ to Clemens based on their knowledge of him (physical, mental and leadership abilities) and give him 2-3 years to develop or B) Get a QB in the draft.
I will trust their judgement, but you must show patience. Lets not forget Eli and Roethlesburger. I know Roeth won a super bowl, but was TERRIBLE last year. Eli almost was run out of town 6 weeks ago. No one in 2005 or 2006 has done anything yet as a QB. If he has the tools, they should know by now. Surround him with options, and let it roll from there.
In short, the answer to this quesiton and all offensive audibles so far is the same: O LINE. They can’t run or protect. If you can’t run, you are forced to pass– but you can’t protect so your screwed anyway.
I agree for the most part with what has been written here but I have to say keeping Chad as the backup is not really giving Clemens a fair shot next year. With Chad here, even as a backup, his specter looms over the team, he still has alot of support in the locker room and the media, couple that with an impatient fan base and after each bad game the call for Chad to return will get louder. As much as it sucks to trade a QB of Pennington’s caliber and replace him with a less talented backup that is what the Jets need to do in order to give Clemens a chance to succeed. If they are going to hand him the keys to the franchise next year then so be it, don’t tell him he can drive and leave Chad in the back seat looking over his shoulder. I admire Chad as much as any real jet fan, he poured his heart and soul into this franchise, but it wasn’t enough, the orginization has made the decision to move on, but they can’t do it halfway. If they want Clemens to have any real chance at leading this team the only hedge they can make on their bet is to unload Chad to the highest bidder, sign the best veteran backup available and spend a second day pick on a developmental prospect (Chad Henne) who could be a starter in a few years if Clemens fails.
QB’s take time to develop – look at the rest of Clemens class – VY, Leinart, Cutler – all struggled pretty mightily this year. The class before that – Eli, Rivers, and Big Ben – Big Ben had a good year but there is games where he only throws 15 times – its a perfect sittuation. The other two, as others have said, also struggled this year – both looked good in the playoffs but had rollercoaster regular seasons (just ask a NYG or SD fan). Drafting a rookie just puts the Jets backwards another 3-4 years. Give Clemens a full season – if hes not the guy its going to be time to rebuild again unfortunately.
Henne would be an interesting day 2 option, but I doubt he will still be on the board by then.
To trade Chad now, from a value perspective, makes a lot of sense.
The Jets moved up in the 2006 draft to select KC. Clearly, the goal was to eventually hand the reigns to KC, which has now been done. Barring injury, KC should be given a chance to start all 16 games next season. Just b/c he was drafted in the 2nd round does not make him any less of a franchise QB than Rivers, Manning, Cutler, Young, etc.
1)Whoever starts for us needs to EARN the job. He needs to compete and win; he doesn’t get it handed to him.
2) Our starting QB needs proper protection to be effective.
3) Chad has stated that he does not want to hold a clipboard next season. I think he’s still a capable starter, just on this team. He needs a solid OL with a power-running game.
I am going to differ in my opinion. The reason that the Jets put Kellen Clemens in, this year, is because the season was over, our team stunk, and it was a good time to get him some experience.
If the Jets don’t trade Chad, they will allow Chad and Kellen to compete in the pre-season. If they have a real Offensive Line, there is no doubt in my mind that Chad will be the superior QB. You all forget when Chad beat Peyton Manning and the Colts 41-0 in the playoffs. You forgot that three missed kicks kept him out of the Super Bowl. Chad is smart, a leader, has accuracy, and is clutch. With no running backs in 2006 and no O-Line (fullback or receivers) in 2007, how could he possibly look good. When Brett Favre came to the Meadowlands, a few years ago, he looked like crap. They gave him a team and — look at him this year. Chad is a winner.
I am not the typical New Yorker who gets his opinions from the ignorant press. I am not the typical New Yorker who’s opinion changes as the wind changes direction. Give Chad a team and we will be back in the playoffs. He is a special player and he has been a special player for us. Have some damn loyalty.
Harvlis, I understand how you feel about Pennington. But you’re argument just doesn’t hold up. First of all, 3 kicks didn’t keep him out of the Super Bowl, unless I slept through the season that he made it to the AFC Championship game. Secondly, Chad was a different player physically when we beat the Colts in the playoffs. He simply cannot throw the ball well enough. Didn’t you see all the floating passes that were either picked off, or got the receiver killed? Chad’s time here as a starter is over.
I love Chad, but how many times did he get your hopes up this season and throw a pick to seal the loss (Buffalo,Cincy,Giants) or fail to show up (Patriots part deux, Eagles,Buffalo 1+2)? In Tennessee he had a great completion percentage, but when he was 11 for 13 his two incompletions were pics. He only beat Miami. Clemens has an excuse to fail other than the losers we call an O line. What is Chad’s? The whole offense was designed around his weak arm. If the Patriots aren’t scared by what he brings to the table he should go. The NY media will just tear Chad apart again next year. If he goes to Minnesota or the Bears the FO should get a first day pick, Clemens gets the team, we still have something to blame if we lose(which we would find anyway), and Chad can start and succeed without bandwagoners tearing him apart. I want him to have a great career, but his days in NY are done.
Just my opinion tho..
i’d keep both and let them compete for the starting job…and i wont waist a pick or money on another qb this year…fix the line and give them more time to throw the ball…and lets see what happens… and we sure as hell cant tell if the line is any good in training camp or pre-season…because are d-line sucks…we wont know if its any good until the 2nd or 3rd game of the season…so lets cut our QBs some slack and hope for the best this year coming…just my thoughts…
I love Chad. is sad to say that we as a team have one of the worst lineages in starting quarterbacks. Chad was the best of almost all of them. Unfortunately, injuring your arm twice, really destroyed a great career that he could’ve had.
Why is everyone forgetting about Brett Ratliff? Let’s give him some decent playing time in the Spring, Summer, and in pre-season. Let’s see what he can bring to the table. Apparently after seeing him in action while on the practice squad, the Jets thought enough of him to sign him to a futures contract for next season. He just might be a diamond in the rough.
I think what K.C.showed this year is a bit underated by the avg. Jet fan. First of all he won 3 games, 2 more than Chad, with pretty much no Coles and a revolving door at LG. More importantly he was clutch and downright impressive in end of game situations (Balt, Wash, Pitt). Yes he needs work on pocket presence and accuracy. Reminds me of Eli, early on in that respect.
He’s tough, mobile, strong armed and that pass he threw 65 yards into Cotchery’s chest against KC (in the rain) was freaking awesome. You’ll see much more of this when they tailor the Off to him.
Jet fans be more psyched than you are about KC.
PS – Must trade Chad
jeff…i agree…we finally got ourselves a qb and what happens…2 sholder injuries later…everybody just wants to run him out of town…we just dont have any luck with our QBs…i just hope clemens is just as smart and accurate as chad is/was with the ball…given he gets a chance to throw it and not run for his life again in 08…but 1st he has to beat out chad for the job which isnt gonna be as easy as it sounds…just my thoughts…
Okay. Pete and Green Guy got me mad. Here are some stats for the two of you. You are both basing your opinions on the Jets 2007 nightmare team. No line, no receivers, no fullback, no Offense. Now look at the 2006 stats, which came after the shoulder surgery. You forget that Chad was the AP Comeback Player of the Year for 2006.
I have given you his stats for the last three games (wins) of 2006 and the head to head stats versus Tom Brady in 2006. We were one of four teams that beat New England in 2006. Did Tom Brady have the better team on both sides of the ball & more experienced coaching staff? Talk to me after reading the stats.
Last Three Games – All Wins which put us into the playoffs
29/39 339yds 1TD 1 INT – Minn away
14/29 237yds 1TD – Miami Away
22/30 157yds 1TD – Oakland Home
Versus NE and Tom Brady
Chad – 22/37 306yds 2TD 1 INT – 1st game 2006 – Jets lost 24-17
Brady – 15/29 220yds 1TD 1 INT – 1st game 2006
Chad – 22/33 168yds – 1TD 1 INT – 2nd game 2006 – Jets won 17-14
Brady – 24/36 253yds – 1TD 1 INT – 2nd game 2006 at NE
Chad – 23/40 300yds 1TD 1 INT – Playoffs – Jets lost 37-16 at NE
Brady – 22/34 212yds 2TD – Playoffs
Totals for the year
Chad 2006 vs NE – 67/110 774yds 4TD 3INT
Brady 2006 vs Jets – 61/99 685yds 4TD 2INT
QB is definitely our most visible need, but it’s not the most pressing need. LG/RT/NT/DE/OLB are all needs more so than QB is. Mangini’s 3-4 scheme continues to be a dud without a big NT to stuff the run, and that deserves as much attention as the offense does.
harv…not bad…but jetfans have a short memory when it comes to c.penn…my own brother has been asking for his head for 3 years now…no patience like most jetfans…we argue about it all the time…but he just wants to win…just like we all do…we really need to be patient…seriously…the season just ended and we’re complaining that nothing has been done yet…lolol…in the end…were all tired of losing year in and year out…just my thoughts…
I’ll take this in a totally different directions and say that both QB’s would have been more effective if they 1) had better receivers to throw to and 2) had someone calling some decent plays.
1) Coles is just taking a beating out there and is the new version of Wayne Chrebet. Our go-to guy became Jericho Cotchery. That is a far cry from any premier wide-out in the NFL. Both CP and KC could use some to throw to.
2) Brian S. (Marty Jr.) just isn’t making it for me. Even when the did swith QB’s they didn’t throw long. The Jet’s coaching staff needs more experience. A young HC and young OC is just too much. Even if the team is rebuilding, they need a been-there, done-that guy in one of those positions.
P.S. In a competition CP wins easily.
i guess being written off is the story of penningtons life.
things a/b how times this guy has been labeled a BUM and yet come back and shoved up everyones rear side.
*he didn’t play at all for the first two years so he was a wasted draft pick at the time. of course he set the starndard for letting qb’s sit and learn the system.
*heading into last year, everyone counted him out. according to the “experts” the jets needed to obtain a quality qb to compete. we drafted clemeons that year. in case people forget when mangini got here it was a 4 headed attack in the preseason. pennington had that won by the 2nd game. of course he went on to lead this team to 10 wins, comeback player of the year, and a decent playoff showing.
i’ve learned my lesson when it comes to counting chad pennington out. he’ll be back next year as the week one starter and this team will be better off in 08 becasue of it.
another thing i need to know is, when exactly could pennington throw the OUT?
how is his arm strength significantly differrent from last year and 02?
is there some sort of JUGS machine at the meadow lands that have i’ve missed. i knew too watch for it at shea when benitez was a met, ut how exactly are we judjing the decline in his arm?
please don’t say tony kornhieser
From what I’ve heard the JUGS machine is located in Gate D. Oh.
throwing an out to the sidelines is a very difficult throw. Extremely difficult if you dont have average or above average arm strength. Even the best get picked off on out routes, just look at Favre in the championship game. That throw cost them a SuperBowl!! I would rather have chad throw it down the seams or downfield, since the out is just as even more difficult to throw. Chad can throw the ball downfield, problem is it doesnt “fly” downfield at great speed.
ATTENTION! ATTENTION! ATTENTION!
FOR ALL JETS FANS WHO WISTFULLY REMEMBER CHAD’S PERFORMANCE AGAINST THE COLTS IN THE 2002 PLAYOFFS: Chad Pennington did not play against Peyton Manning. They were never on the same field at the same time. The Colts defense was pretty crappy. Those 41 points were scored against a crappy defense. It cracks me up that everybody loves to bring up that game and never mentions that Chad Pennington looked like a 12 year old girl exactly 7 days later against a good Oakland Raiders team.
Here’s Chad’s line in that 30-10 loss in the Divisional Round: 21 completions on 47 attempts for 183 yards, 3.3 yards per attempt, 4 sacks for -16 yards, 1 TD pass (1 yd to Jerald Sowell), 2 INT’s, 2 fumbles (2 lost), 6 for 12 on third down conversions, 1 for 4 on fourth down conversions.
In the second half, where we started the half tied 10-10, Chad dropped back to pass 31 times. He completed passes on 7 of those 31 dropbacks (8 if you count a pass interference against the Raiders), never got the Jets in field goal range, and produced 0 touchdowns and 4 turnovers. SEVEN FOR 31 WITH ZERO TOUCHDOWNS AND 4 TURNOVERS.
Chad is a very smart, very accurate quarterback who has always shown great propensity for beating bad teams and bad defenses and who looks utterly helpless against good teams and good defenses. He has been overrated for his whole career, and keeping him around would be a titanic mistake. I wish him well in Kansas City next year, and I hope he enjoys all the glowing reviews that will be written about his resurrection of his career when he leads the Chiefs to a surprise 9-7 record and a playoff berth before he singlehandedly engineers their inevitable first round playoff defeat.
Give Kellen Clemens a full season, draft Chad Henne or Erik Ainge or Dennis Dixon or Josh Johnson or John David Booty in the 4th or 5th round for insurance, and get the Flight Crew prepping for an outpouring of warm fuzzy feelings on Chad Pennington Day in September 2009 after his retirement.
Liam, that was a great line. Very funny. Harvlis, we do not need a radar gun to tell us about Chad’s arm strength. It is clearly weak. And are you kidding me, trying to convince us that Chad and Brady are comparable? Please, stop with that. I understand when you like a QB and his time is up. It’s not easy to let go. I loved Richard Todd. But like Chad, his play went downhill fast. Time to move on.
Ah, but that Raiders game was blighted by terrible playcalling and an overwhelmed offensive line, which only goes to prove that with good playcalling and a good performance from your offensive line, anybody can do well at QB.
Umm, doesn’t it?
If this team is ever going to go to the SB, Chad is the man that will take it there. The Jets Fans who call for his head or for his back up role they simply see …
We almost lost him with the injuries and out of nowhere he made a tremendous backup….and this year’s statistical performance (while it should have been expected) it is used as the measuring stick of his abilities.
During the summer the fans who want now Chad demoted or traded were more or less tha same ones who have thought that replacing Pete Kendall was a good idea. For the record…during the Kendall controversy I was arguing that the OL was weaken so much that Chad would be running for his life and if I was the Jets’ QB I would refuse to play risking my career. Ofcourse Chad did play and he was running for his life. He just got injured in the very first game. KC had the same problem, running for his life….
I just hope that the FO sees what I see in Chad and they let him lead again the team and if the wishes of those of you who want him replaced are granted then I should wish you Good Luck.
But what is sad …is that even if I wish you good LUCK and Luck approaches you , most likely you will not recognize her.
We got lucky last year. We had an easy schedule. Harvlis, beating Minnesota, Miami and Oakland in a row last year isn’t impressive. We got stomped by Buffalo. Chad throws one more touchdown than interception two years in a row and can’t throw outside the numbers. His intangibles can not be questioned, but am I on crazy pills? If Chad is the starter next year by week 8 Kellen will be in. What do we have after that, but a very split locker room? Chad Pennington could lead a team with a great defense and strong running game to the Super Bowl. There is not a doubt in my mind, but the Jets don’t fit that bill. The QB decision will either get Mangini an extension or sent to the street. I like this regime. With two years the 3-4 we are complaining about could be dominant. I know I know just throw rocks at me, but Mangini knows the Pats. I hate the Pats. Chad is the better QB, but we need a more explosive offense to make up for a developing defense and Chad has been the pick 6 king since the playoffs last year. I don’t care if I anger people. I defended Chad every year, but he is getting killed here and Clemens will lose confidence if we bench him. I don’t want two sad sacks at QB and I’ll take the kid with the arm any day. I’d rather lose and develop Clemens or kick the bum out than win with maintained mediocrity.
nikolas…and other chad backers…enough. JESUS!!! for chad to lead any freakin team to a supe a ton of $#$@ has to be perfect!!! i love the guy, very tough, very smart, can make alot of throws…. but a team needs a STUD RB, and a pro bowl OL, and a 6′ 3″ WR for him to get to a supe. last time i checked the jets have none of the above. i am all for him being here next season to be a good backup QB b/c whats out there is poooh….but we spent a 2nd rd pick on clemens…and anyone who thinks this past season is an indication that he has proven he will never be good is a fool.
I dont know how anybody cud say that Chad and KC can be on the same team. Two diff tyes of QB’s with offense tailored in different ways. Either one of them has to go. If you keep KC then there is no point in keeping Chad coz we’d never practice those plays suited to chads strength. We just have to get another veteran QB.
If we keep Chad(which is not a bad idea) then we’ll need to get rid of KC and draft another high IQ, short pass QB so the same offense could be practiced with the new guy as well as Chad.
The FO drafted KC w/o considering the fact that Chad would come back from his injury and play good. Since that happened, they cant tailor same schemes for both players. It kinda bit them back.
Personally, I think KC shd be given 1 more yr and Chad shd be traded for 4th or 5th pick or whatever we get and take a cap hit since we can afford to do so now.
Klecko that goes to show you that we can never seem to build around great players. Just look at NE or even the Packers. Favre has played like 2 generations, yet the Packers FO has been able to build 2SB caliber teams in a 10yr span! meanwhile we get a great QB and we have C-Mart in his prime and a good OL. Guess what happens? Chad sits bench for 2 freakin years!! Then half of our O-line leaves to the godd@mn Redskins, and Harm destroys our team, by not resigning key players. Since then our line has been inconsistent and we haven’t been able to stop anyone running at us. Its been like that for 4-5yrs now. Heck that O-line the one which was great turned into crap overnight, during that time Chad “a PB quarterback” is injured by poor protection, and it happened twice!!! Dont blame Chad blame Edwards and those fools for not investing in the O-line! By then C-Mart was injured and so was Chad. Look at 2008 and our line still sucks!! Meanwhile the giants can plug any Joe from the street and with great coaching turn them into PB players WTF?? Are we still that bad? Yes
In regards to comment by Eric from Morissania, The year they played Oakland was Chad’s first as a starter. He had a 104.2 quarterback rating that year and the two interceptions that he threw were more than he had thrown the previous ten games combined.
As you mentioned, about the Colt game, Chad was not alone on the field but, no excuses, he had a bad game.
I agree that we should draft a QB in the later rounds. But, our best chance to win in 2008 is with Chad. Given a line, a running game, and a receiving corp — he will put us in the playoffs. After that, anything can happen — see the Giants. By the way, I would take Chad over Eli in the blink of an eye.
Harvlis, are you related to Pennington? Do you really think he is in the same league as Tom Brady? And you would rather have him than Eli? C’mon, please stop with this nonsense. Eli is young, with a strong arm, and has just lead his team to the Super Bowl, and his best days are ahead of him. Chad is not as good as he once was. So, please take a step back and rethink your position.
Harv –
So when he beats the Colts 41-0, it’s a true testament to what kind of world-beating player he is and will always be, but when he looks like Chris Wienke seven days later, we’re supposed to ignore it because he’s a rookie? You can’t have it both ways. Either you read both games as indicative of his skills and abilities, or you don’t. But you can’t cherrypick performances and act like one good game in one good week 5 damn years ago means that he’s Joe Montana and then shrug off the fact that his atrocious play, and his atrocious play alone, cost us the game a week later. Chad does certain things well. During that Colts game, he made excellent reads, distributed the ball to playmakers, and managed the offense, and lead us to a nice win. However, there were likely two or three dozen other quarterbacks who could have also dropped 41 on that Colts team (and, it’s worth noting that with all the fawning over that game, the 0 matters just as much as the 41 in making the game “legendary”… the dominating performance of the defense makes the victory seem bigger than it was. If the score had been 41-38, the game and Chad’s performance would likely barely be mentioned, but I digress…).
And by that same token, there are probably two or three dozen quarterbacks playing in 2002 who would have won that Oakland game. Trent Dilfer would have been a better option; he wouldn’t have turned it over 4 times in the second half. One week after picking apart a crappy Indy defense full of names like Brad Scioli, Idrees Bashir, Joseph Jefferson, and Sam Sword, Chad’s performance against a pretty good Oakland defense was horrid. All the Raiders did was sneak the safeties up, play press coverage with Charles Woodson and Tory James, jump all the underneath routes and dare Chad to go over the top, which he couldn’t even come close to doing. So, he either had his passes batted down, intercepted, or he held the ball and took coverage sacks and fumbles. That was the blueprint for beating Chad in 2002, and it’s how the Steelers beat us in 2004, and it’s how the Patriots beat us in 2006. THE WHOLE LEAGUE KNOWS HOW TO BEAT CHAD PENNINGTON, and it’s not even that hard. The only teams that seem to struggle against Chad are the teams that struggle to beat anybody. So, ultimately, is the Colts game the rule and the Oakland game the outlier, or vice versa?
Chad took over in 2002. Here’s what we’ve done from ‘02-’07: Champs, last place, Wildcard, last place, Wildcard, second-to-last. Is the fact that Chad’s lead us to the playoffs three times a testament to his greatness as a quarterback, or a result of playing easy-as-cake schedules? Doesn’t it concern anyone that the best (and often, the only) argument of Chad being a QB capable of leading a team to a Superbowl is a season that happened 6 years ago, one that he’s never come remotely close to duplicating and one that ended in a flameball of ineptitude rather than the aforementioned SuperBowl?
If a QB has one great year as a (virtual) rookie and then follows it up with 5 average-to-crappy-to-injury-filled years, should we compare him to Montana and Brady or are more appropriate comparisons those of Daunte Culpepper and Brian Griese, two craptastic quarterbacks who, just like Chad, have one-and-only-one single season QB rating above 100, followed by playoff stinkbombs, losses, mounting sacks and interceptions, fourth quarter collapses, and general mediocrity?
Even if we don’t know if Clemens is the right answer to the question, we know Chad is the wrong answer, so why would you write down and answer that you know is wrong on the most important test you take?
… and as for the Eli comment… I thought Eli was a bum before, and I’m still not sold on him not being a bum now (sorry, but beating a bunch of crappy NFC teams, on the road or at home, doesn’t impress me. We’ll see what happens to all the Eli hype when he lays an egg against a good team come Feb. 4th).
But even I, as an Eli basher, know that with all of his shortcomings and bad decisions (and he’s got a TON of ‘em), he would give the Jets a better chance to win, on a more consistent basis, than Chad. That was true a few years ago, it’s true now, it will be true in 5 years and in 10 years. Eli can do everything you need a quarterback to do, and the number of times he succeeds is increasing while the number of times he fails is decreasing. For Chad, it’s the opposite.
Chad never even remotely had the potential that Eli has, Chad at his peak wasn’t as good as Eli at his, and Eli at his worst is just as crappy as Chad at his. If you would take Chad over Eli, you must be smoking some of the finest crack ever known to man.
I’m not going to argue with the crux of your argument, but I have to take issue with this:
“…his atrocious play, and his atrocious play alone, cost us the game a week later.”
Paul Hackett, Herm Edwards, Damien Robinson and the offensive line were all at fault too that day…
Chad’s confidence, perhaps more than his arm, is likely shot. Let’s not do the same to Kellen.
Back to investing in the line: We all know first hand how a bad line can permit injuries like Chad’s, shorten RB & QB careers like Theismann’s, or disguise talent like T. Jones’s. To the contrary, just look at A. Bradshaw and see how a good line can make a 4th string RB make the G-men not miss a HOFer like Tiki. More often than not, the line tells the tale.
I think Chad is done. There’s no comparison to 2002 Chad because, after 2 shoulder operations, 2007 Chad just does not have the arm strength to play QB in the NFL. Chad’s 2006 was heroic and a real tribute to his competitive spirit and character, but his play severely declined and you could give Chad the Pats OL and it still wouldn’t help him complete the short out. It’s sad, but Chad’s done. And, even if he wasn’t, KC is a completely different QB with a different skill set.
As for KC, I know the OL was awful, but I just can’t attribute all of KC’s struggles to the OL. He lacked pocket poise last season. I say this because he had 2 completely different flaws in the pocket. First (which fans will attribute to the OL), he had “happy feet” when the pocket began to collapse. Now, I can’t blame him for this because the OL was terrible, but remember he is generously listed at 6-2. So, when the pocket starts to collapse, he might have trouble seeing over the OL/DL. Thus, he may naturally feel uncomfortable in the pocket. Second, he had a tendency to be indecisive when he did have time and did not get rid of the ball sooner. Plus, it usually doesn’t take that many years for a young QB to begin to show NFL competence and many of the best ones play well in their first 2 seasons (Brady, Peyton, Favre, McNabb, Roethlisberger, etc.). KC was not competent last season, he was inaccurate and threw too many INTs.
Also, giving a bad QB a good OL, running game and aerial weapons doesn’t mean the QB will automatically succeed. Rex Grossman, Tavaris Jackson, Brian Griese and Aaron Brooks are recent proof of that and in Jets history we have Richard Todd. So, I have advocated drafting Matty Ice. Whatever the Jets decide is okay with me, but I’m uncomfortable building the team around KC.
Eric, Eli’s peak is now. Half way through this season, nobody had a clue if he was a bum or a player. Give Chad a line, a running game, and a receiving corp and a defense — then talk to me. Of course, Eli has more potential, he’s younger and hasn’t been injured. Chad’s arm was good enough to get us to the playoffs in 2006, it would be good enough again in 2008 with the right surrounding cast.
Like most people posting here, you are a “what have you done for me lately” fan, who doesn’t take into consideration all the other factors involved. If the Green Bay management were like you Brett Favre would have been retired already. Like he never threw ugly interceptions.
I am not saying that Chad is the second coming. I am not saying that I wouldn’t want a QB drafted in the latter rounds. I am saying that he is the best we have, he is better than the available free-agents, and he is better than a rookie from this draft. Give him a surrounding cast and we are in the playoffs.
PS – How about Eli vs Carolina in the playoffs – 10/18 113yds and 3 Interceptions.
SACK…and others….again…YOU CANT NAIL KC FOR ANYTHING LAST YEAR!! look at ur comments….”He lacked pocket poise last season. I say this because he had 2 completely different flaws in the pocket. First (which fans will attribute to the OL), he had “happy feet” when the pocket began to collapse. Now, I can’t blame him for this because the OL was terrible, but remember he is generously listed at 6-2. So, when the pocket starts to collapse, he might have trouble seeing over the OL/DL. Thus, he may naturally feel uncomfortable in the pocket. Second, he had a tendency to be indecisive when he did have time and did not get rid of the ball sooner…”
THIS WAS THE GUYS FIRST ACTION!!!
Harvlis –
I’m not interested in “making the playoffs.” I’m interested in winning the Superbowl. In an ideal situation, Chad may be decent enough to get us to the playoffs. Todd Collins, Daunte Culpepper, Damon Huard, Rex Grossman, Aaron Brooks, Byron Leftwich, Mark Brunell, Chris Simms, Brian Griese, Jake Plummer, Quincy Carter, Kerry Collins, Kelly Holcomb, Tommy Maddox, Kordell Stewart, Jon Kitna, Jay Fiedler, Elvis Grbac, and Anthony Wright have all lead their teams into the playoffs in the past few years. It doesn’t mean that any of them were good enough to play the minimum of 3 good games in a row that it takes to win the Vince Lombardi trophy.
“Give him a surrounding cast and we are in the playoffs”… I’ll say it again…
Todd Collins.
Daunte Culpepper.
Damon Huard.
Rex Grossman.
Aaron Brooks,.
Byron Leftwich.
Mark Brunell.
Chris Simms.
Brian Griese.
Jake Plummer.
Quincy Carter.
Kerry Collins.
Kelly Holcomb.
Tommy Maddox.
Kordell Stewart.
Jon Kitna.
Jay Fiedler.
Elvis Grbac.
Anthony Wright.
The goal is not to make the playoffs. The goal is to WIN THE SUPERBOWL. Chad has never, ever shown that he’s a good enough quarterback to win a Superbowl. He’s shown that he’s Trent Dilfer – a quarterback good enough to win the Superbowl if EVERY SINGLE OTHER FACET OF YOUR TEAM IS OUTSTANDING, so outstanding that your team wins not because of you, but in spite of you.
Why anybody still wants to hang on to a player who was never anything more than slightly above league average, before his body was wrecked and destroyed, and who now is only good enough to get you a 10-6 record and a first round playoff exit IF you play the weakest schedule in the league AND if all the lucky breaks fall your way… is just beyond me.
He’s TRENT DILFER. At best. And that was before the surgeries. Now, he’s a broken-down Trent Dilfer.
Ugh.
Eric from Morrisania… are you from the Morrisania or New England’s Moronia. I bet you are from the Moronia….
I can’t see any argument for keeping Chad on the team. Chad’s been a pro’s pro and deserves everyones respect but he clearly is not the future of the franchise at this point. If you look at the way they went after both KC and David Harris it seems clear that the Man and Tan regime did not regard either Vilma or Chad as the type of players that best fit the system they wanted to run on either side of the ball. Given that fact, they should have traded both Chad and Vilma last offseason when their value was at their highest. In retrospect, I think the surprising success of 2006 may actually have been a setback. It made them think that maybe, just maybe, they could succeed in the short term AND rebuild at the same time. That almost never works. Look at what Parcells does when he takes over a team. If a player or coach fits his philosophy, then fine. If not, they’re gone immediately. To me, the 2007 Jets were a result of the team being run by two very young guys who, though talented, didn’t completely trust their own instincts with respect to the direction of the team.
I just wanted to add that I think that Man and Tan are pretty smart and have probably learned their lesson. From the two drafts they’ve run, they are obviously pretty good talent evaluators. They thought KC had the skills to be a franchise QB. Time to give him the keys and see what he can do in an offense built from day one around his skill set. That was obviously the plan from the begining. I think that KC has shown enough in his limited action to stick to the plan. Honestly, does anyone think that next season, not to mention the future of the franchise, rests on whether Chad, Rex Grossman, or whoever, is the backup QB? Trade Chad and Vilma now for the best deals you can get and use those assets, probably picks, to plug the known holes at OT, DL, etc. A few extra picks in rounds 3, 4, or 5 can be very useful. Look at what they did with mid-round picks last year to manuever to bring in blue chip talent for key positions. We need more of that and less worrying about giving one last shot to holdovers from the last regime. I know that’s not sentimental but this is the NFL. Chad we love you but it’s time to move on (for your good as well as ours).
I agree with Nikolas.
Eric, you’re posts are right on. You cite excellent facts and truths. None of the Chad backers have addressed any of the issues you raised. Other than to simply say they believe Chad is good. Regardless, all of this is out of our hands and as always we just have to hope that whatever decisions the team makes, they are the right ones. It’ll be so great one day when we do win the SB again and all of us will be enjoying it, and forgetting about past failures.
the problem with eric from morrisania’s argument is you have to make the playoffs in order to get too the SB.
i think the jets should keep both. no better back up then pennington. clemens did show what he can do when he has time to throw (i.e. pittsburgh) improve the line i believe (however boring that sounds) and get us to where we belong, the big one. go jets!!!!
I don’t understand the argument that we should keep Chad so we have a quality backup. First of all, Chad has made it clear he wants to have a chance to start. Either we give him that chance, and yet again have two totally different styles of QB that our offense has to get used to, and also never find out if KC can develop into a star. Or, we relegate Chad to the bench full-time when 3-5 teams still would value him as a starting candidate. So, we decrease his value while we could still trade him for significant assets. Neither path makes much sense to me.
The biggest problem I have is exactly what Eric said. I want to win a Super Bowl, not just sneak into the playoffs so we can get pounded by 20 points by an elite team. Given how strong the top 4-5 teams in the AFC are, it’s going to take another couple of years for us to build to that level – by which point Chad will be too old to possibly be the guy leading us. Why not get some value for him now? Yes, Chad might be a better QB than KC in 2008, but if KC gets injured, how much is Chad going to help us when he steps in? So we can maybe go 6-10 instead of 5-11? Who cares?
to sum up the position, Our quarterbacks are very likeable team leaders who sucked this season…
Chad is a smart and precise quarterback without any arm strength
Kellen has some arm strength, don’t know if I saw much of anything else, but given the circumstances I don’t know if the young quarterback had the opportunity to show us anything else.
Time will not improve Chad’s arm strength, cornerbacks are still going to jump his routes. I like Chad, I got an autographed football and everything, but it is time to shop him and see what we can get. Another year on the bench may lower his trade value.
I don’t really believe there is anyone available that just makes the idea of giving Kellen an opportunity with a good line (which means an improved running game) and a deep threat receiver. I am just not as hyped on Matt Ryan. Pick-up Chad Henne or Flacco (might have misspelled his name) in a later round
and let him sit on the bench and learn while you give Kellen his opportunity.
Sorry did not complete the sentence
I don’t really believe there is anyone available that just makes the idea of giving Kellen an opportunity with a good line (which means an improved running game) and a deep threat receiver not worthwhile.