Vilma Trade Watch: New Orleans or Jacksonville?
As usual, Hutch gets the dirt on the Vilma situation
Jets: The team declined to comment on a report in yesterday’s Boston Globe that they gave linebacker Jonathan Vilma permission to seek a trade with any team in the league except the Patriots.
The two teams are bitter AFC East rivals and it’s conceivable the Jets wouldn’t want to deal Vilma within the division and have the move come back to haunt them. But Vilma was an ill-fit in the Jets’ 3-4 scheme and the Patriots run the same defense.
Jacksonville and New Orleans are among Vilma’s likely destinations. The Jets are believed to be seeking a third-round pick.
I wonder if Vilma still has a bone to pick with him about that article he wrote last fall about him wanting out … I’m guessing not.
A third rounder seems pretty odious when you consider the player, but the truth is that the Randy Moss trade skewed trading for picks value last year … it’s hard to imagine that the Jets would get much for a guy in his last year of a deal, who is coming off a chronic condition which was aggravated and operated on in the past year. To me, it’s an indication that they would rather get something NOW that they can use in April than wait for a compensatory pick. Not what I hoped, but better than him getting buried on the depth chart. I just fear how this situation, the one with Coles and Kendall now will ripple through this team.
15 Responses to Vilma Trade Watch: New Orleans or Jacksonville?
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sec108 says:
Rambo, I understand your frustration on this but I have to agree with Bassett, as much as it pains me to say it (I own a Vilma jersey), we are not in the drivers seat with this deal. Yes Vilma is young and a model citizen, but he is also coming off season ending surgery for a knee injury, not a good omen for a LB whose game is speed. I think this is a much bigger factor than the value on picks the moss trade may have had. I think the jets will try to get the best they can for him, I would hope a 2nd, but I would be ok if they settled for a 3rd this year because of the circumstances. To hold onto him out of spite because no one will pay him what we think he was worth to this team more than two years ago is counter productive to rebuilding this team. Is he a great talent, yes. Is he ever going to contibute to this defense anywhere near the level he did his first two seasons, no. It sucks, but these are the facts, I’d rather deal with it now and move on.
Bassett, I don’t think the Vilma situation to the team is comparable to the Coles, Kendall issues. He is a player that was clearly not a fit for the scheme they play now and his heir apparent (Harris) proved himself after Vilma went down. I think the Jets are treating him well by allowing him to seek his own team even though he is under contract for another year, I think it shows that if you are a good soldier for the team, as Vilma has been the last two seasons, not complaining about his situation, the team will try to do right by you. The alternative was selling him to the highest bidder, which I think would have been much less desirable to Vilma and may have been viewed badly by the teamates he left behind.
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mike m in DC says:
Rambo,
I agree with you. I think Miami actually gave up a 2nd and a 7th.
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Bent says: “we will most likely receive a 3rd round comp pick”
Not so. If we have other free agent acquisitions next year (and it looks likely that we will be under the cap again) they will be netted off against the loss of Vilma to determine whether or not we get a comp pick at all. We could well end up with nothing.
In any case, a 2009 3rd rounder is equivalent value to a 2008 4th rounder.
I don’t think a 3rd rounder is enough either (and just because the article says “they are believed to be seeking…”, it doesn’t mean this is accurate). But not trading him for that reason doesn’t really add up. Plus, having him on board may slow down the overall development of the defense.
A better reason to keep him might be because you think him and the DH together could yet work (especially with a strengthened line), but of course if he has a good year, he will be more expensive to retain and may walk for nothing.
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Matt says:
Yes a 3rd rounder is a joke, but the Jets are not negotiating from a position of strength. 1) You have no idea how he will respond coming off knee injury 2) he does not fit the scheme.
I would rather see him try his hand as an OLB than receive a 3rd rounder for him, but if we can get a 2nd rounder for him then ship him to the NFC where we will only see him once every 4 years
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subwayfare says:
No offense, but i think Vilma will get steamrolled into the stadium subbasement playing outside in a 3-4.
He’s coming off surgery, he’s unhappy, the coaching staff is unhappy trying to use him in a scheme he’s not suited for, the rest of the league is aware of all of the above.
Try for a second but happily take a third for him and move on.
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Pete says:
I guess I’m in the minority but I don’t think JV is a great player. Probably very good. The FO needs to get the correct value for him, whatever that is. None of us are in a position to say what that value is. I for one am glad Tangini is moving players that don’t fit the system. Parcells moved good players that didn’t fit his system with every team he’s been with. No one ever complained about him.
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SackDance99 says:
Pete, I agree with you and I’ve said this before. I think Vilma has been exposed as an LB. His weakness is shedding blockers and delivering a punishing form tackle to an RB going right up the middle (remember how McGahee owned him?). There have been many undersized MLB who have excelled in the NFL, like Zach Thomas. But, unlike Zach Thomas, Vilma can’t deliver a punishing tackle (ultimately, Zach’s career will end early because of his willingness to sacrifice his body for a vicious hit). Vilma’s cerebral, a finesse LB who is better at pursuit. Bent, I don’t think shoring up the DL would matter. Let’s say Vilma plays the weakside ILB, I’d cut-back run on him all day long. In cut backs, the NT is naturally taken out by the flow of the run, the strong-side ILB is sealed, most likely by the center or off-guard. So, if the weakside DE is blocked by the OT, then Vilma is all alone. Plus, since Vilma’s tendency is to pursue quickly, he could take himself out of the play. An ILB who can’t handle a run right at him really isn’t an upper echelon player (I do think Vilma can be a good NFL player for a long time, I just don’t think he’s a Pro Bowler). Because the Jets are rebuilding and a 3rd rounder could lead to a starting LG or RT (among other positions), I’d take the pick and player now.
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j says:
The Jets are unfortunately a year behind w/Vilma, he should have been packaged in last years draft. Now he has been exposed as undersized, and is damaged goods. When you let a player seek a trade you are unfortunately losing whatever leverage that you may have had, because the league knows that you want to get rid of the player. I cannot remember in this salary cap/free agent era where a player was dealt for an equivalent draft choice.
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Wow. Great comments. I think that Vilma’s quite good, but not great. Probably should have traded him last year, but that’s not always easy to discern. We should hold out for a 2d, but may have to settle for a third. As mentioned, we’re not in a position of strength. Anyway, I don’t think that losing him will be a severe blow.
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Chris says:
I think that the Jets should settle for a 2nd rounder for Vilma. I don’t think a 3rd rounder is enough for a guy who got 100 tackles almost every year since he first started playing. I think he might go to Jax, cause Donnie Henderson just got a job there. We all know what Vilma did in Donnie’s system. I think if NO offers a second rounder, then we make the deal. We could pick up a guy like Jared Meyo to replace Vilma. Miami wants to get out of having the first pick in the draft, cause they need more picks to start rebuilding their system. If we can get a 2nd rounder for Vilma, why not trade our 2 2nd rounders to get the first pick and get Chris Long. He fits perfectly in our 3-4 system. We could still get McFadden too, because most drafts are projecting him going 6th to us with Chris Long being the first pick. I think if we can get a 2nd rd pick, we have to make the move, and I think that could put us in great position to land some huge impact players in this year’s draft.
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Harlan Lachman says:
The issue is whether we are better off getting a third now or holding onto Vilma until a team offers more (or letting him play a year if no one offers more) — especially since we will eventually get a third in a compensatory pick. The Steelers have been masters of getting the most out of talent and letting it walk and getting replacements through compensatory picks.
Not panicking into stupid, get-it-done trades usually garners more value. Who knows, maybe Vilma could be a draft day trade for a team that assesses Vilma as worth more since a LB draftee they wanted was scarfed up before their pick.
Trading Vilma for 3rd now would not only be a condemnation of the acumen of our FO when it comes to assessing talent (for not trading him last year) it would be a condemnation of the acumen of their ability to assess value. Vilma and a third later with the potential to get more for him on draft day or before the draft is worth more than trading him for a third more than month before the draft.
harlan
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With hindsight, it’s easy to say we should have traded Vilma last year. But if you had polled Jets fans in Feb 2007, coming off a 10-6 playoff season, if they wanted to trade a 24-year-old defensive leader who had been to the Pro Bowl 12 months earlier, the response would have been almost unanimous – heck no, don’t trade him, just put a better d-line in front of him and he’ll still be able to make sideline-to-sideline plays. Now, the FO brought in a bunch of low-cost d-lineman, and except for Coleman, they stunk – and it’s certainly fair to blame them for that. But I don’t think you can tag them for not having traded Vilma earlier. Besides, who would have replaced him? We didn’t get Harris until April, and even then we didn’t know if a rookie would be able to handle starting in the 3-4 his first season. The FO played it safe with Vilma and hoped he’d develop into the system. He didn’t.
Which brings me to my other point. I think we have to take a 3rd-rounder for him if we can get it. The fact that Vilma used to be a very good player, and might be again someday, doesn’t change his relatively low value for our team. And as sack pointed out, a significant knee injury doesn’t bode well for a player who’s so reliant on speed. Combined with the cap savings and extra pick we’d get in a very deep draft, I think it’s a no-brainer.
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JP says:
Let’s see how this plays out. I suspect that the deal will involve Vilma for Rogers -and- a pick, which wouldn’t be a bad haul.
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Bent says:
Chris – I think Jerod Mayo would have the same problems as Vilma in this scheme, but there are others likely to be more suitable.
Harlan – “we will eventually get a third in a compensatory pick”. How many times do I have to explain it – we probably won’t get any compensation pick at all. Even if we did get a third rounder (which will only happen if we get nothing positive from free agency next year), it would be at the end of the third round. Surely a mid-third rounder is much better than an early 4th in one year’s time?
I’ll say it again. This assumption that we’ll get a third rounder in compensation for losing Vilma next year is flawed and actually we may end up with nothing.
I respect your opinion but only a third for Vilma would be highway robbery. I disagree with your view on the Randy Moss trade, especially given the Pats traded a second for Wes Welker. Terrell Owens was traded for a mid ruond pick as well and that did not change anything.
The fact of the matter is Vilma is one of the best Middle Linebackers in the league, is still young and is a model citizen. If people aren’t willing to pony up to get him, than we have an extra incentive to keep him, ESPECIALLY given we will most likely receive a 3rd round comp pick if we let him walk next year. So the real question is, is losing Vilma worth getting a third round pick this year instead of getting a third round pick next year? I vote with a resounding no. Just because he isn’t a great fit doesn’t mean we give him away.
I think we need at least a first round pick, maybe this year, maybe next year OR a second plus another mid round pick OR a conditional draft pick. I don’t want to see Vilma go to Jacksonville and get shielded by those two behemoths and make the Pro Bowl and only get a third rounder for our troubles. Who’s with me?