Buzz: Tannenbaum is Staying Busy
You can’t blame the Jets for not trying, it seems that Tannenbaum has ratcheted up the wheeling and dealing this offseason. Here’s what’s been spread on the web in terms of potential homes and places for Vilma & Roberston. It’s tough to think that the Jets are trading away two of their former first round picks within the past ten years. But when you consider that the previous regime made a deal involving a first round pick (and others coming back … we know) for Doug Jolley, you can imagine what type of a hole from which this team is trying to dig itself.
Jon Vilma
Lions — Hutch fleshes out the deal for Vilma to the Lions on NJ.com and what could be expected in return from the 6-4 345 pound NT Shaun Rogers. Vilma would take over duties from Paris Lennon, who is a hole in the Lions’ Linebacking unit.
Panthers — In addition to noting the Lions, Hutch also throws the Panthers into the mix in the same article, who would be offering 6-4 35- pound NT Kris Jenkins. Jenkins is likely the better fit, but will the Panthers be asking too much in return? Vilma would take over for the now departed (and many times concussed) Dan Morgan, so it’s a hole that the Panthers need to fill anyway.
Saints — It’s possible Vilma is on a road trip, and a fan forum has noted that, having visited the Saints on Monday which Tom Rock of Newsday confirmed. How serious would the team be in any deals? It’s hard to say
Dewayne Robertson
Redskins — Jason LaCanfora reports that the Skins might be looking at Dewayne, but this seems to be just speculation on his part.
Triple Trade — Mike Florio of PFT has been informed that the Broncos, Detroit and Jets are working on a deal to send Rogers to NY, Robertson to the Broncs and CB Dominique Foxworth and a pick to the Lions.
This feels like a huge tease. I remember many a sunday nights last year hoping for a 340lb NT and now that it seems like it will become a reality…. I remember I’m a Jets fan. I don’t want to over pay Faneca or Samuel, but no one can deny that the proposed trades, projected draft and FA pick ups make the team SEEM to improve exponentially. That being said we will be 3-13.
I don’t mean to sound like I have no loyalty, but I am a businessman and I want Coles out of town. No room for whiners. I do hope that if Robertson and Vilma leave they have great careers in the NFC or CFL. They all played hard for us but their time is over.
Regardless of my pessimism Friday is way too far away. Go Jets
Yikes. Keep J.A.G.G away from tall building ledges.
I don’t see Rogers becoming a Jet. Too many alleged character issues. The Jenkins scenario sounds better, but the injury problems stand out. Ideally, would like to see a monster NT and D-Rob playing next to him on the outside. Forget Samuel; draft a CB high if you really think we need one. Faneca sounds like a promising deal, but how much is too much for a 31-year-old O-Lineman? Plus, the Steelers are notoriously good at letting veterans go when their talent is on the decline – remember KVO?
If that three-team deal happens. Essentialy somebody else received a 2nd round pick and a CB for Robertson? WTF! So why cant we just trade Vilma for that offer? WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I find it very hard to picture D-Rob rushing off the end (sorry oscar). But I do agree the injury questions make the jenkins deal a little more questionable for me. I’d like to know what else the Panthers would be asking for besides Vilma; if the price isn’t too bad, I wouldn’t mind, but if it’s too steep, I’d take rogers in a second.
I agree w/ Oscarfactor on Faneca. Cannot see paying up for him at 31 when his stats are padded by the help he had around him.
I will say this on all these rumors. Everyone we are rumored to get has character issues. Rogers, Walker, Samuels, Jenkins. Why don’t we just go for DeAngelo Hall as well and just have a team of misfits. I don’t see Tangini allowing the Jets to turn into the 07 Bengals
just throwing this out there: if we can unload pennington for decent value would you pick up carr as a vet back-up?
also I heard talk of the RT from the chargers as being available Olivia or something..is he worth picking up
as for faneca, I just hate the idea of picking up a 31-year-old as a high-priced FA. Other than the draft, what are our options at LG? what if we use chad as bait?
Oscar, you’re right that the Steelers tend to get rid of guys at the right time – but they’re not choosing to get rid of Faneca, he’s simply said he’ll never sign a contract with them again because of prior contract wrangling. If the two sides were on speaking terms, I suspect PIT would love to have him back, since the rest of the line played awfully the entire year. (OGMatt, I don’t think his value was padded at all by the guys around him – I lived in Pgh for 5 years, and all my friends who are still there tell me it was the other way around.)
Also, Faneca is 31, but star OG seem to age better than guys at speed positions (WR, CB) or high-impact skill positions (RB, LB). Faneca has kept himself in good shape, and he’s still a terrific run blocker. If we can get him – even if it’s a four-year deal – I think we have to do it.
Make either deal ASAP (Rogers or Jenkins) I saw too many games last year where Drob got blown off the ball
I’ve been reading up on Rogers. Apparently, he reported to camp grossly overweight, never stopped hitting Popeye’s, Wendy’s, Taco Bell, etc., during the season, and was completely ineffective the 2nd half of the season. I know the majority of fans are down on D-Rob, but you never heard about D-Rob dogging it or not coming to camp in peak condition (heck, last year he looked too thin!). Kris Jenkins, on the other hand, came back from injury and, by most accounts, returned to his Pro Bowl form. I know we want a space eater, but if just being fat is the criteria for NT, then let’s recruit a Sumo wrestler. Also, I’ve always like Jenkins, but swapping D-Rob for Jenkins only seems like a marginal gain. Plus, I’d rather have Jenkins replace Ellis at LDE and keep D-Rob.
On Lion’s blogs a lot of people claimed that Rodgers kept playing hard just that his support was lacking. I mean their opinions are worth as much as ours (Other than the fact that the Jets are way cooler), so until I see him for a 16 game season I would hold judgement. He has better stats than Jenkins and gets hurt less. I like durability in a wall. Plus if I played for the Lions I would eat a lot out of depression too.
7 sacks in a season he took half of off almost doubles the whole season D rob played.
“just throwing this out there: if we can unload pennington for decent value would you pick up carr as a vet back-up?”
Nope. We would be better off retaining Tuiasosopo or Ratliff.
Being a 3-4 NT has very little to do with number of sacks. Maybe if he spent less of his time trying to get to the QB and doing what he was paid to do (which, even in the Lions 4-3 would’ve been to take on blockers) they wouldn’t have given up 5ypc on runs up the middle.
Ramble, Robertson getting blown off the ball never happened, at least not without a double team and even then he usually held up initially at the point of attack.
I’d rather end the play than take on blockers. D Rob got pushed around like a child against the Bengals tho. He is supposed to be taking on two lineman, so can he ever be double teamed or is it just doing his job? He is a great player, just not the anchor of a 3-4 line. I don’t see a successful 3-4 defense in the league with a player like him at the nose.
Maybe that’s true, but there have been plenty of unsuccessful 3-4 teams with guys like Jenkins or Rogers at the nose too.
Touche’. Just rather see them try something new than trying to fit that square peg through a circle for another year.
i agree with mostly everything justagreenguy said…except i think we’ll do better than 3-13…lolol…
rogers overweight or not will be motovaited to play for the jets just becuz he knows he’ll have a chance to at least snif the playoffs…in a year or 2…then again who knows…plus we wont spend half the time on deffense if we get the players we’re looking to get…just my thoughts…
JAGG, it’s really hard for me to compare Jenkins to Rogers. For the most part, Carolina has had the better defense and better team, so one would expect that Carolina faced lots of teams that gave up the run after they fell behind and Jenkins had a lot of competition for those tackles. Rogers, on the other hand, is on a piss-poor Detroit team that had teams grind it out against them after getting big leads. They’ve been in the NFL together since 2001 and play the same position in the same conference, yet Jenkins has 3 Pro Bowl appearances and has been named All-Pro twice, one more, on both counts, than Rogers. They’re both big, both have conditioning issues, but Rogers gets tagged with the “takes plays off” criticism, while Jenkins is known for his high motor. Both get identical 80 ratings from Scouts Inc., while D-Rob gets a mediocre 68 (Ellis fares better at 73, but D-Rob is younger and, in theory, can improve). I’d prefer Jenkins, but with D-Rob, because Jenkins has the flexibilty to play DE. Also, Rogers is known as a one gap penetrator (hence the sacks and 9 blocked kicks on special teams), while Jenkins’ reputation is as an elite run-stopper. Of course, if the Jets had drafted Haloti Ngata over Brick, which is what I wanted, then the Jets would be set with the best young DL player in the NFL.
I don’t think DRob was blown off the ball either. The lack of a solid MLB group affects DRob too. The NT is supposed to occupy the blockers, but the MLB is supposed to occupy the hole created which could account for the 5 yards on running plays–thus the reason we are shopping Vilma.
And I’m not interested in Carr. He has no idea how to avoid the rush and right now our OL resembles the Texans’ OL, so Carr would not be an upgrade over any of our current QBs.
JAGG, I’m not sure what you mean by “a player like [D-Rob].” If it’s size and technique that you’re talking about, Kelly Gregg on the Ravens is shorter than D-Rob and is not really a 2-gapper, but he’s a pretty good NT (he gets a 74 from Scouts Inc., while Wilfolk gets a 75). With a better weakside ILB, D-Rob’s weakness, which is that he’s too fast for the position and is very susceptible to cutback runs, would be minimized (by the way, I don’t think you could expect miracles on this count from Rogers or Jenkins either, but they’d be somewhat better when the strong side 2 gap (center-guard, guard-tackle) is attacked). Like I always say, the 3-4 is a LB defense and until the Jets have above-average LBs at all 4 positions, the DL will be overwhelmed. There’s 5 OL and 3 DL, the DL will always lose without LB support, especially weak side support.
Agreed that Linebacking core needs to be addressed. I think this falls under the idea that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. I believe this is just not Drob’s defense (I’d love an extra 20lbs on his frame too tho) and he gets payed way too much to not be a force. I can’t recall our run D being in the top 20 since he got here. That isn’t his fault, but it isn’t like we are killing him 4 it. We are trading him to help the team.
I also think that our draft, other than Vilma and Nuge ( I like that he is 2/2 in OT. I wont defend him being drafted in rd2 at all), fell short with Bradaway. Other than Cotchery and Rhodes I can’t think of any good performers he brought in.
Santana Moss, Lamont Jordan and Kareem Mackenzie were all excellent picks, Victor Hobson, while no star, managed to hold onto a starting spot for his entire time here, Justin Miller has gone to the Pro Bowl as a return man, etc, etc. Bradway’s failures as a talent evaluator are pretty overstated. The reason he was somewhat of a failure as a GM (not a disaster, mind you) is that he did a poor job of managing the cap- he paid out too much money to older players in recognition of their past service, and he overpaid some guys who hadn’t earned big money yet like McCareins. But I can think of a lot of GMs with lesser eyes for talent.
What I meant to imply was their long term value to the team. Thanks to the way he handled money and trades they are almost all gone. I did forget about Justin Miller tho. I only counted Vilma, because he was so good that he was worth mentioning even on his way out. Moss and Jordan have had ok careers since they left.
Santana Moss, Lamont Jordan, Kareem McKenzie. While all excellent picks were traded or released, which makes you question the priorities here. Also Randy Thomas was also snatched up by those DAMN! redskins
Santana Moss was traded for Coles, a trade that benefited both teams, but arguably the Jets won that one. Lamont Jordan and Kareem McKenzie left as free agents, both signed lucrative contracts that the jets couldn’t compete with for different reasons. Mckenzie was solid, not great RT that signed with the Giants for great LT money, just didn’t make good economic sense to spend that kind of money on a RT at the time, and it still doesn’t. (see Flozell Adams). Lamont Jordan signed for 5 years $25 million with the Raiders and the Jets couldn’t afford that even though they would have liked to because they had already rewarded Curtis Martin with a ridiculous contract based on past performance and not present an future value as they should have. (see Laverneus Coles).
We need Jenkins, not Rogers, I am realizing. Barring that, use a third rounder on Frank Okam, who is the same physically and motivation wise as Rogers but cheaper and younger…(I know — I sound like his fan club president)
Shaun Rogers was a much, much better player at UT than Frank Okam.
Okam was 320 in college and his main attribute was his burst. He would have been awful as a NT. Now he is 347 apparently, which would mean that the burst is probably gone too.
If he could get back to 320 he might not be a bad option at DE (and he supposedly has good intangibles so don’t rule it out), but he is simply not cut out to play as a two gap tackle. There’s a lot more to being a 3-4 tackle than simply outweighing DeWayne Robertson. Fans of Rogers and Jenkins need to take this into account too.
i could put on 130 lbs and be our new nose tackle!
At least you have the pedigree for it – we’ve all seen the picture of when you made a wrap-up tackle on a screen…
*crickets*
OK, fair enough…good comments. My Frank Okam obsession has been satiated.