Seven Reasons Why the Faneca Deal Will Matter in 2008
First off, don’t expect to get your money’s worth on Semi Pro … that loud thud you just heard was Will Ferrell hitting the proverbial wall.
We all know that Alan Faneca is a Jet by now. Initial reports were that the Jets had offered Faneca a four year $32 million deal with 20 million in guarantees. Likely pushed some by another bidder, the Jets extended the original offer to a fifth year and added an extra million in guarantees.
This deal makes Faneca the most highly paid lineman in NFL history. Not only an excellent player, he’s exactly the type of player that Tannenbaum and Mangini covet. Here’s seven reasons why this deal could have a huge impact in 2008:
Faneca is a Leader — Faneca wanted to be in a place where he felt valued last season monetarily, but when it was clear that he was going to have to play on his old contract, Faneca shut up, went to camp and played hard all season. Throw him into a locker room where Chad Pennington is unsure of his future and role … is Kellen Clemens the leader of this team yet or not? It’s often hard for young players to take a formal or informal role as captin, so you can see why Faneca will provide more than just good blocking for the Jets. “The Jets are buying more than a left guard,” Faneca’s agent, Rick Smith said. “He was the leader of the Steelers for years. His attitude is: get on my back, and let’s go win a Super Bowl.” This is a great guy for D’Brickashaw and Nick Mangold to emulate.
Here Come the Reinforcements — Adrien Clarke wasn’t doing much to help out D’Brickashaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold last year, where it seemed to be every man for himself at times on the left side of the line. With Faneca lining up between the young lineman, he’s going to be the best player there, allowing Ferguson and Mangold to worry about their own assignments, and know they’ll be getting solid help when Faneca can provide it.
Get Ready for a Running Game — Last year the Jets went out and traded for Thomas Jones to augment their backfield. It’s been a few years for the Jets since they had a solid running game, but with the right players up front, they could be dangerous. This of course will lead to opening up the passing game some for the QB.
Charlie Hustle — Faneca never quits on a play. Watching some stuff I had of the Steelers, he’s always hustling to the very last. Picking up blockers that come free, or never letting his pass protection assignment get away from him until the whistle blows.
Short Yardage — The Jets were horrendous in short yardage situations in 2007. Thomas Jones alone had 17 carries for 8 yards in 3rd and less than 2 or 4th and less than 2, rarely making first down conversions when they needed them. Add in Leon Washington and the number goes to 20 total attempts and 16 total yards. Ouch. Adding Faneca now gives the Jets someone they can trust to run behind in must-have yardage situations.
Pulling Plays Are Here Again — I was recently watching some of the Jets games from last season, and I can’t tell you how many times I saw Adrien Clarke pull, and be totally ineffective in finding someone, let alone the right person to block or seal off for the running game. This is one of Faneca’s strongest qualities, look for the Jets to use him often in this role.
Frees Up Strategy for the Draft — This position was the biggest single need for the Jets going into the offseason, and getting Faneca along with Kris Jenkins frees up the Jets to be in a position of power when they pick sixth in the draft … whether that means making a “luxury” pick, or moving back and targeting the right players.
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Love the activity by Tangini so far… How do these moves affect our draft?
Whether we sign Pace as a FA or not, I think we still take Gholston – if he is there. If not, maybe we trade the pick.
We should not draft McFadden – yes, he has breakaway speed tha TJ does not. But where do you think most of our running plays going with an interior line of Faneca, Mangold, & Moore? Between the tackles – a strength of TJ
Let NE take McFadden – ask yourself this? Will NE be more prodcutive with Maroney & Gholston or McFadde and no Gholston? I say let them have McFadden
toon sorry but thats just stupid. all the people who passed on peterson are stupid now. mcfadden is ecatly what jets need now who cares about thomas leon n mcfadden spliting carries is a now brainer.. i do not want to know whta belichek can do with a player like mcfadden that will unbelievable
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1FCfZoPGEFA
McFadden has more than breakaway speed. He has arguably the most impressive acceleration I’ve ever seen. Yes, this is a highlight reel, yes it’s not indicative of his total game, but really…just watch the points where defenders look like they have an angle on him, and then watch him blow past them. I’m not sure I’ve seen anything like it.
I’m not saying the Jets should definitely draft him, but let’s not pretend that we have no use for what he brings to the table.
Is trading up to get the DE Chris long a ridiculous thought?
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=367694
jayson taylor to leave miami and possibly go to the packers? gotta love that!!!
Could this have any impact on us luring in calvin pace and him preferring us over miami?
i think its ridiculous because we dont need to trade up and if we dont select mcfadden we can get gholston many say there not much difference in gholston n long. gholston actually had a better combine . and was a big margine faster in the 40
worst case scenario. we take gholston 6
best case. mcfadden 6. early doucet 2nd rd our O if an istant threat especially with faneca and also them trying to get olivea from san diego
Trading up to one (I’m assuming we’d have to trade up that far for Long) for anyone is pretty nasty because of the salary increase, especially for a team that has already spent some money this offseason. Long is great, but the difference between him and the rest of the top six doesn’t justify the cost and ultimately we have other needs – trading up would probably cost most of our draft picks to do, unless the Fins had interest in any of our veterans, which I doubt, since they already signed several players including a DT and a WR.
I like both players coming out, but don’t be surprised if the Jets come out of the sixth pick without either one of them. As much as I love McFadden, I can’t get my hopes up too high, as Tangini, when given the choice of players, pick the guy that fits the “profile”. unDMC doesn’t fit the “profile” and Gholston might be gone after he posted those insane combine numbers.
the question of mcfadden vs. gholston is probably an academic discussion. what are the chances of both being available at #6?
the real debate is whether to trade down or not.
trade for roy x. williams and we may well be 10-6 again, though i want to play for championships, not short-lived wild card berths.
Our sixth pick still has to be a player for several years. Because as the 6th pick, we are going to be paying for him for years.
After RB recently like TJ and Curtis (and for old timers Freeman, Matt and Emerson) I find it hard that there is any interest in a guy who is obviously stupid and out of control. You want to count on him for your return on investment?
Fool me once…Fool me three times.
How many out of wedlock kids does any of us have? How many have two? Three?
I sure hope Tangini allow others to take McFadden if there is interest with a trade — or if Gohlston is the real deal, solve OLB once and for all regardless of the trade offers.
With all the win now contracts we just signed, our window is shorter and we had better win now. We have yet to fix the pass rush. Is Gholston the answer?
h
harlan
They might as well start pumping out McFadden Raider jerseys already. Al Davis adopts flashy character cases like they’re stray kittens.
Besides, let’s keep our eye on the ball and draft an RB in the first round only when all the other pieces seem to be in place. As we all know, a quality O-line can make medium talent look good. Our current backfield surpasses that threshold and it’s our only position group with depth.
We won’t draft a RT or WR at 6, so it seems practical that we’re looking at either OLB or maybe CB. We’ll have no takers for our pick, unless McFadden somehow slips (meaning Al Davis slipped), but that seems highly unlikely.
Allow me to nip in the bud any Jason Taylor to NYJ talk. If the market wasn’t artificially inflated for him, he’d be a quality role-player this year and maybe next. That said, whoever pays him next will be smarting the year after next when he’s blazerless, demonstrating plays on the green wooden ‘field’ on NFL Countdown.
Again, Harlan is right on — no way this character-driven organization will spend a pick on and invest long-term in a guy like McDaddy. Not the way to take care of bidness! (I need to start working on the t-shirts)
Actually, the way the FO has been taking care of bidness with the moves this weekend (just a week ago, who would’ve gussed we’d be sitting here with Jenkis and Faneca and without Vilma), I have confidence for the draft. They hit two homers last year moving up for Revis and Harris, and acquitted themselves nicely in the draft before (D’Brick, Mangold, Leon, Clemens, etc.). I’m sure if there’s a player they think they truly want, they’ll do whatever they can to get them, and if there isn’t, they’ll trade down.
I’m very interested to see what happens next. I give them points for identifying the mistakes they made last off-season and not repeating them by sitting back and waiting or trying to fix holes with JAG-type players. Being proactive is vital to success in the NFL (and pretty much anywhere else)!
I agree with Jonathan. It is the best version of the likely FO thinking as well. I think a) trade down if C’boys give 21 and 28, b) OLB (Gholston) c) CB (McKelvin) d) WR (pick one, I like Devin Thomas). These would be the top of each position and fill a current void. After round one it’s anybody’s guess.
McFadden is a tremendous talent and a nobrainer if he falls to the 6th spot but the chances of that happening are very small.
Last season the Vikings drafted Peterson even though they had Chester Taylor who had a great season. and its not like Thomas Jones is that good to begin with
McFadden is not as good as Peterson but you don’t pass up on guys with that much talent.
There are guys like Gholston in every draft, can you say the same about McFadden?
billvv
The WR the Jets need is James Hardy. He’s 6′6″ with very good speed. He is a red zone threat with great hands (He used to play bball for the Hoosiers)
79 rec 1125 yds 17 TDS last season
his ADP is 40 so he should be there with the 36th pick.
yes rich!!! NO BRAINER is the phrase to get used to if mcfaddon slips to 6. enough with the baggage crap. we are supp to have a coach and organization that can mentor and mold kids now. the guy is an elite athlete for christs sake!! hello….um…ADRIAN PETERSON!!! randy moss was and is still the biggest prick in the league, and team perfection made it work. i like TJ, no doubt the running game will be better overall this year. but hello fellow jets blog dot commers…DO WE HAVE ANYONE ON OFFENSE THAT ANY TEAM WILL GIVE A $$!@! ABOUT STOPPING!!! so if he is there take him, or put out the for sale sign and get alot of picks / players for him. PLEAAASSEE dont be the team that screws this up in 7 weeks!!!
Run DMC just won’t be there at 6, so it’s not worth a 7-week debate. Many Jets fans wasted a lot of time fantasizing about Reggie Bush a couple years back, though most knew the odds of it coming to fruition didn’t justify the time invested in the daydream.
I think we all agree that he’s talented and exciting. And I think most agree that the F.O. would trade-down for 2 first-rounders, on the off-chance he’s still on the board. If we can’t get a buyer at that price, we may take him, but: 1
For the people comparing McFadden to Peterson, 1) Peterson is much, much more powerful running inside, and 2) even with the epic season that Purple Jesus had, the Vikings went from 6 wins to 8. A top-shelf young running back is a great thing to get once you’re already a 10-win team and are trying to get to SB level. Check out the RB’s for the last 3 champions:
NYG – A first-year starter and a 7th-round rookie
IND – A rookie taken at #30 overall
PIT – A first-year starter (undrafted) and a fat old Bus
If we had K Barlow still starting for us, OK, McFadden would be a huge step up. But McFadden’s value over a TJ-Leon tandem isn’t that significant. And if we can fill a much more important need at pass-rusher, I think we have to do that (or trade down).
R, just make sure you have them available in 2XL. While the diet is still progressing, not sure I will ever see the XL days again.
And, to be clear, even if it means repeating myself, inasmuch as the Jet moves so far have not helped the pass rush which is substandard even for a HS team, if Gholston is the real deal, we should not trade down even if McFadden tempts the Cowboys to give us two picks for our slot.
While the idea of a RT, a replacement for Moore, and still having our second rounder would be tempting, I would rather get the RT and a pass rush — if the pass rusher is there and is really a superman.
Bassett, are there any rumors about Gay or any other CB?
h
… the most likely scenarios at 6 are:
1) DMC’s wearing another hat by then — 80 % chance
2) Tannenbaum is Blackberrying with Jerry Jones — 15% chance
3) Brady becomes the second most famous dad in the AFC East -5% chance
I like the reasoning of pound4pound and hope it is more widely accepted. It would allow the discussion to be more about OTHER weaknesses we need to fill, namely OLB and CB on D and WR and RT on O. We simply cannot overestimate the need for a third WR. They take time to assimilate. Cotchery took two years!
seanmac –
so mcfadden will be the 1st running back off the board or do you still think that some teams have him rated lower? and, where does mcfadden rate prospect wise vs. peterson coming out of college, meaning what type of grade would you give each player?
crazy article this morning by cimini, but i actaully kind of agree with it. why not go after randy moss?
Gholston should not be our pick. The combine is a joke as is the Big 10 in football, and both prove nothing footballwise. We should pick up McFadden or trade down if he is gone. We need players and some depth on both O and D lines. Maybe we get McDaddy to have a vasectomy put into the contract language? Getting Jenkins and Faneca suprised me because our FO usually goes too cheap. Maybe Johnson realizes the fan base needs a boost. Jarod Mayo from Tennessee should be a great pick up at linebacker in 2 RD or late 1st. He plays in a real conference, The SEC.
If DMC was gone before 6, what team would be stupid enough to trade-up? The temptation would be gone.
Our trading-down is only a live option if DMC’s still on board.
I have to comment on the McFadden issue. The knock on him, besides minor character issues, is that he ges down as soon as he’s hit. i’m sure evryone has notced how skinny his legs are. In college he ran past alot of the deenders but in the Pros, he needs to break tackles. Personally, think the jets should move back in thhe draft and get extra picks. If the ant a running back, i’d rather see them take a bruiser like Rashard Mendenhall. Thy have so any needs still
Sorry. My keyboard sucks!
drafting lineman early on in the draft is a huge mistake. talented lineman can be found later on in the draft.
the jets could trade with ATL as no team b/c OAK and KC both have QBs and Miami and STL both have RBs so if the Jets want McFadden he can be had
If the opportunity to take McF is there, the Jets should grab him. Are C. Long or Ghoulston projected to be THAT much better than D-Rob was projected to be when the Jets traded up for him? If I recall, D-Rob was supposed to be a “game changer”. Let’s face it, that didn’t happen.
Not only would McF be the safest pick, but he would make a lot of sense given the FA moves. With the O-line shored up, McF could really make thing happen. If the Jets can control the line of scrimmage and run the ball effectively, they will also control time of possession.
Great defenses win championships, but so does the ability to control the ball and score. Right now, the Jets do not have a legitimate scoring threat in the red zone. In the past few years, the Jets have played solid D in many games and still lost b/c they couldn’t score.
I guess this Faneca thread took a left turn at Albuquerque and ended up in Arkansas. So when in Little Rock…
The record shows that McFadden was both a star on the field and in boudoirs across the South. However, one place in which McFadden apparently didn’t shine was the classroom.
Did any one watch the Heisman ceremony? While the producers deified Tim Tebow, they painted a rather unflattering academic picture of McFadden. I guess the point was that he persevered through adversity — which is commendable don’t get me wrong — but it underscored another off-the-field issue. Any word from the Combine on McFadden’s Wonderlic score?
With “smart” being the first of Mangini’s oft-quoted core values, this issue might be of greater concern to the FO than dead-legs-after-contact or child support payments.
McDaddy will not see daylight in the pros like he did in college, that is FOR SURE. His skinny legs won’t last the first year if he’s not in a two-back offense. We already have the between-the-tackles back and the scat back, so you’d be making one of the two unnecessary when, at the same time, we have positions going unfilled. Doesn’t make sense! You have to think TEAM not headlines and highlights! You know, like the FO and not the fans.
If the Jets get Pace and Woody, then Run DMc makes sense from a need perspective. But, from a BPA perspective, if DMc is there, then he IS the best player available. Heck, it could be his character concerns that drop him to 6. The man ran an unofficial sub-4.30 40. He’s 6-2. There’s an old saying, you can’t coach size or speed. When he’s on the field, the other team is worried, has to account for him every down. The Jets haven’t had someone like that on ofense for a very long time. I don’t like Clemens, so the Jets have to surround him with weapons. When DMc is on the field, Clemens will be an afterthought, like Rivers on SD with LT. To me, that’s exactly the type of situation that all the KC supporters want. And, I’ll say it again. DMc can come in as the third WR…he’d be the Jets’ tallest and fastest WR. In fact, I’d put LC or Jericho in the slot and watch DMc take the safety and CB 40 yards downfield as a decoy. He’s that type of disruptive force. He’d open up the middle of the field and offensive coordinators would have nightmares with packages where Brad, Leon and Rub DMc are all in at the same time. When was the last time the Jets offense has scared anyone? Durability concerns with a guy this fast? I don’t want him fighting for yards, Barry Sanders never fought for yards; he’d routinely lead the NFL for most carries for loss. But, when he got into the secondary, see ya! The Jets have the bruiser in TJ, DMc is complementary. He’s the guy for 1st and 10, not 3rd and short. And, sorry to you Gholston fans, but DMc would have the biggest impact on the Jets immediately. He’s NFL ready on Day 1. When was the last time a rookie OLB made an impact in the 3-4? The original LT? Well, if Gholston were that type of prospect, then he’d go to Parcells at 1.
I’m as old school as anyone on this site and I revered Weeb. You know what Weeb would tell DMc? “Start dating older women because they don’t swell (don’t get pregnant), don’t tell, and appreciate it like hell!” And, that’s a direct quote.
in regards to filling our reciever hole. our best bet is without a doubt drafting early doucet from lsu in the 2nd round, he should be there and that would add an absolute play maker to the jets offense instantly
and all this DMc talk is jsut dumb. is the best player in the draft by a long ways. the jets need his explosiveness on and off the field they have no excitement on there team since vilma left they need one of these high profile big name talents on there roster. hes a game changer regardless of if he touches the ball or not
[...] point: the Jets can’t go wrong with Faneca, it’s just that they sure did give up a lot to get him, and they already had a pretty good [...]
Drack. im not looking for darren to take algebra exams in new york. im looking for him to win football games and be a dynamic player. that is darren mcfadden. end of story
OK.. After falling asleep at the switch last year we woke up and fixed the ailments on both lines, and thats great.
We still have not a single offensive weapon that scares defensive coordinators. We are not even certain who our quarterback will be. We need a player that shakes up the equation. Randy Moss is available, and if you want to hurt New England and have that weapon people fear you go after him. He also happens to be a close friend and former team mate of Chad’s.
What good is an offensive line that protects Chad for the dink and dunk, or Clements when he has no deep threat to throw to.
Putting points on the board wins football games.
Bold moves,
McFadden is not as good as Peterson but he’s not as ineffective running the ball as Reggie Bush
McFadden is without question a great talent, but my concern for him is exactly the same as for Peterson. He is 6′2″ which means he is a big target and therefore susceptible to injuries.
Peterson had great blocking last year and put up great numbers, yet still got hurt and missed a few games (and note that his backup put up similar numbers while he was out). Is that going to be a pattern? Will it take a forever escalating toll? What use is a franchise RB if he might be too banged up to contribute come playoff time?
He also had 23 fumbles…that’s far from Curtis Martin right there. However, I rate him as better than Peterson and to be fair he was more durable in college, albeit that he ran outside more.
James in TN, where would you see Mayo in our defense? Would he not struggle with his relative lack of size the same way Vilma did. I agree that he’s pretty good, but isn’t he better suited to 4-3 OLB?
bent
if you think McFadden is better than Peterson then you got to draft him even if u trade up for him b/c no player in this draft is better than Peterson. Gholston, both Longs, Dorsey are all replaceable dynamic running backs are not
rich, forgive my ignorance – what is ADP? Average draft projection?
I can’t see Hardy lasting to 36. I felt he was a solid first rounder before the combine. His main concerns were strength, which he allayed with a strong bench press and off field issues, which might mean the Jets aren’t interested even if he drops that far.
I agree, he’s a very exciting talent and would be a great addition, although there are other big wideouts with speed too.
Maybe rich, but I still have the durability concern.
I am perhaps warming to the idea. Leon could be more or less a full time KR, Miller could be traded to a team that needed a return man. Jones could still get 15-20 carries and McFadden could be the utility guy, probably also getting 15-20 touches. As sack keeps saying, he upgrades the passing game too.
As needs are filled he becomes less of a luxury pick. My preference is probably still to trade down though.
However, I don’t think he’ll last to 6 now that the next stage of analysis is underway – film study – because he’ll come out of that strong.
People who think that McFadden’s acceleration at the second level won’t translate to the pros are deluding themselves. He’s going to be an explosive player. Now if you want to argue that his explosiveness will be offset by the number of negative plays he’ll bring in- lots of stuffs at the line with a fumbling problem mixed in- I’m sympathetic to that. Barry Sanders was a better running back than Emmit Smith or Terrell Davis, but it’s much easier to build a dominant offense around the latter two players because they consistently leave the offense in favorable down and distance situations.
That said, I haven’t watched enough of McFadden to say that he is a boom-or-bust back. Yes, he has a weak lower body, but he doesn’t dance in the hole, he hits it with speed, which means that he’s not going to get dropped for losses or no gains unless the line fails to block for him. His YPC in the SEC certainly doesn’t suggest that he won’t be able to generate yardage consistently. If he turns into Reggie Bush…well, then you’re paying him at six instead of at two, and Reggie Bush is a significant weapon, even if he’s not a traditional all-purpose back.
Again, look at the way McFadden explodes past linebackers and safeties who have the angle on him. It’s ridiculous top line speed, and it’s speed with football ability.
bent
i don’t know about you but I dont see the RB position for the Jets a luxury. Thomas Jones was awful last season. Yes the whole team was bad but still.
A dynamic RB is more important than an OLB or a DE or a CB. Those positions can be filled in the 2nd round, 4th round. Look at Kerry Rhodes.
How many top RB can you name that were drafted later on
If Jerry Jones is willing to part with two pics in the 20’s (is that what the ‘Boys have?) for McFadden, then he’ll be long gone by the time #6 roles around.
Thomas Jones gained over a thousand yards with that line last year. Give him a chance! Chicago is MOANING the loss of the man to this day! Have you forgotten the guns on that guy!
DMc is going to be a boom or bust guy and you want to buy a line just to find that out? I’d rather trust the known guys we already have and get somebody else we DON’T have. We are very thin at CB and WR and nobody is coming up behind them. Next year we’ll be buying them and that’s not a good long-term strategy.
billvv – Guns on that guy ??? Let’s get David Boston too, than we’ll have a tandem.
OK.. After falling asleep at the switch last year we woke up and fixed the ailments on both lines, and thats great.
We still have not a single offensive weapon that scares defensive coordinators. We are not even certain who our quarterback will be. We need a player that shakes up the equation. Randy Moss is available, and if you want to hurt New England and have that weapon people fear you go after him. He also happens to be a close friend and former team mate of Chad’s.
What good is an offensive line that protects Chad for the dink and dunk, or Clements when he has no deep threat to throw to.
Putting points on the board wins football games
SackDance99 I don’t often agree with you, but you make way too much sense here.
Klecko71 on the money as well.
How could any fan want good for his/her team and not want McFadden ???
Atlanta just dropped major coin on Michael Turner. If Oakland doesn’t take McFadden-and I don’t think they will-he’s going to be there at six. It’s time to start taking that possibility seriously.
seanmac from you LIPS TO GOD’S EARS !!!!! PLEEEEEEEEAAASE !!!!!!!!!!
seanmac
well why wouldnt the Raiders take him. Fargas and Jordan are not very good.
The Raiders just gave Justin Fargas $14 million, based on the fact that he just had a very good year. It doesn’t preclude them from taking McFadden, but I wouldn’t put the odds at any better than 50-50.
Seanmac, I think you’re dismissing McFadden’s boom-or-bust style a little too quickly. Running behind the same o-line in the same offense, Felix Jones had a lower percent of his carries go for negative yardage than DMC. Felix Jones is supposed to be the speedster who doesn’t have as much power; isn’t it interesting that he got back to the line of scrimmage more often than DMC?
A couple of other comments:
- Sure, DMC might be like Barry Sanders in his boom-or-bust style. But there have been a whole lot more boom-or-bust types who turn into nothing than turn into Sanders. And as you pointed out, even the ridiculously gifted Sanders wasn’t as valuable to building a winning team as a more consistently excellent runner like Emmitt. 2nd-and-12’s kill drives.
- DMC has more significant character red flags than any of the top 20 prospects – and who’s to say we’ve heard everything yet?
- He still has concerns about his intelligence. Is that going to mesh with this offense?
- Re: using him like Reggie Bush as a fallback plan, does anyone think DMC has the hands of Reggie? Did he play in an offense that featured him as a catcher? Nope – DMC only had 21 catches, and averaged less than 8 ypc.
- Rich, I would disagree that RB is more important than a 3-4 OLB. This is a passing league now, and a pass rush in today’s NFL is probably the second-most important asset behind good QB play. And as for good RB’s being gone after the first round, how about Willie Parker (undrafted), Brandon Jacobs (4th rd), Brian Westbrook (late 3rd), and Marion Barber (4th)? That’s half the Pro Bowl RB’s and the current SB champion.
- I totally agree we need more playmakers. I’d love to get a WR and a RB in rounds 2-3. The depth at both of those positions is terrific this year.
Look, DMC might turn into Purple Jesus, Aquaman, and Papa Smurf all rolled into one. But do you want to take this huge a risk on a top-ten choice?
the raiders just put $$$ into rhodes last offseaon, $$$$ into fargas this off season and lamont 2 years ago. with just that on board if i were the raiders i might still take mcfadden, but the best rb on that team could be mike bush and thats why our chances of seeing our guy on the board just went up 30%.
there is a better chance some team moves in front of us to select mcfadden that the raiders taking him
bush is a stud guy, that they have a day one pick invested in. his upside alone deserves a real shot at becoming the guy.
Would I rather take a risk on McFadden or Gholston? McFadden, without question. Why? Because he played like a number one pick for two years running. Vernon Gholston played like a late first/early second round pick. The difference in talent level between McFadden and a second round back is much greater than the different between Gholston and a second round DE/OLB hybrid. So by prizing Gholston ahead of McFadden on the basis of the importance of his position or what have you, what you are actually doing is degrading the overall level of talent that you bring onto your team.
As for the information you cite, I think it’s interesting and worth taking into consideration, but I also don’t know enough about how the two backs were used. Were they rotated regularly, or was Jones used in certain situations? If Jones is essentially a third down back, then he’s running when other teams are playing pass, and he’s not going to get stuffed as often as when teams are stacking the line.
No one is making the argument that you need to draft a running back in the first round to be effective. On the contrary, the entire league is moving away from that strategy. The argument is simply that you want to be in position to take the best player available, because he’s going to make your team better in a way that reaching for a lesser player at a position of need or presumed importance won’t. There is absolutely nothing that Vernon Gholston has done to suggest he’ll be a better pro player than Darren McFadden. Unless you count bench presses. I’m not particularly interested in adding a running back high, but I’m not going to pass on the best prospect because he happens to play that position.
I’m not 100% convinced that the team should take McFadden if he’s there. But I’m leaning in that direction. And the pre-draft situation surrounding McFadden smacks of Randy Moss all over again.
“Were they rotated regularly, or was Jones used in certain situations? If Jones is essentially a third down back, then he’s running when other teams are playing pass, and he’s not going to get stuffed as often as when teams are stacking the line.”
Exactly the point I was about to make when I read p4p’s point, and that I didn’t get round to making the last time he made it. I don’t think the statistical comparison with Jones is entirely fair for exactly that reason. Jones runs were mainly stretch plays or outside runs, often after the defense had been “softened” by McFadden. He also got more carries in the second half when the defense was wearing down and his fresh legs were a real weapon.
His role was certainly more of a “change of pace” back, (even though their pace is similar). But his lofty ypc average was slightly less impressive than it sounds if McFadden was getting all the “tough yards” – and although a lot of the highlight runs are him getting out into the open field, he also is elusive at the line, hits the hole with a burst and gets the five and six yard runs that were Peterson’s bread and butter, even against an almost-pro standard offensive front like LSU, where sure he broke a 70+ yarder, but almost had 200 in total.
The off-field issues don’t concern me too much either. Disclocated toes in a nightclub scuffle? These things do happen to athletes (admittedly he’s been in situations like that more than once). The illegitimate children thing didn’t seem to hold Tom Brady back.
I’m far more concerned about durability and fumbles.
if you are debating Gholston vs. McFadden then I dont see how going with Gholston is a viable option.
McFadden would give the Jets a dynamic running back and would be a huge upgrade over Thomas Jones.
Is Gholston that much better than what we have right now or the other players in the draft?
Gholston over DMC ????? GOTTA BE JOKING !!
Good points, seanmac and Bent. I hope you’re right, because I could certainly see DMC sliding to us. ATL just signed Michael Turner to a monster deal, and as someone mentioned, OAK looks set with Fargas resigned and others still in the mix. So, I don’t think it’s likely any of the teams ahead of us take him now.
Of course, that doesn’t take into account someone trading up… but if you’re another team looking to take him and you know he’ll slide to 6, why not wait until then and call the Jets so you pay a smaller price for DMC? You’d have to tell the top 5 teams to call you if they hear from any other teams interested in trading up, so that you can counter-offer, but all in all I could see the Jets ending up in a nice situation here.
Last time I checked we had a pretty good running back named Thomas Jones, and a damn good guy named Leon as a change of pace. I remember when all of you thought Reggie Bush was what our team absolutley had to had…wrong then ..wrong now.
Watch what these guys do with some blocking. We need a pass rush on defense, and a deep threat receiver…and of course these 2 big over paid free agents to produce results.
Some of you guys sound like a bunch of wanna be coaches…you are not. You’re the same people that wanted Reggie mister bust Bush…Get a clue.
neil
well i wasnt here and I’ll tell you something I would never have drafted Reggie Bush.
McFadden is a completely different player. Reggie Bush is soley east-west whereas McFadden can play a more north-south style.
You’re telling me McFadden can’t rush for 1500 yds and 10 TDS with the line we have now and the offense we run especially with Chad under center
with all due respect. Running back should not be our first concern and I do not think McFadden is the right choice if we do. Mendenhall or Stewart are a much better choice. Both posted great 40’s and both are much bigger. As I said in my last post, when you get to the Pros, you need to be able to break tackles. McFadden can’t. This is not sayig he s not a good runnig back or that he can’t bulk up in the legs, but he is not worth the 6th pick. The Jets need to trade down for some extra picks. They still have to many holes. With Coles at the end of his career, we might want to look at another receiver and we could use someone to complement Revis
I’d rather see the Jets select the highest rated corner on their board. They did a pretty good job of scouting Revis last year. There would be the added benefit of taking the best corner away from the Patriots who are in desperate need of corners. In the second round they can select a right tackle or outside linebacker. To have the two best corners in college football in successive years and Jenkins in the middle would do more for their defense against the run and pass than anything else. An improved defense and an improved running game with Faneca and a new right tackle would change the outcome of a lot of games.
jk, I put all of my money that you have not seen one single game of Fightin’ I’s this entire season. Have you ?
You lost your bet. Have you? And i’m srue your’e an Arkansas officianado?
Walter – we all love our Green’s, but we are not fighting with the Pats. First we climb over eleven other AFC teams and only then we worry about them.
Which one have you seen?
Penn State, Ohio State & the bowl against USC. What have you watched, the Heisman show?
FIGHTIN’ I’s is Illinois, that is where Mendenhall played.
Look, it is no problem my man. I just don’t think that he is half as good as McFadden.
I don’t even think they sould go running back. Beleive me, I have been a Jet Fan for too long(1969). No old jokes please! lol
I share the pain. We have seen teams go to playoffs on the back of RB’s with so so QB. That is kind what we have here (if we pick him). If he can take us to the playoffs, than coaching wins one, than defense wins one, than QB – and there it is (wishfullthinking, lol)
Apparently this post has lost direction. We have 2 good running backs….PLEASE stop the we need another. We need a pass rush and a deep threat. We need to put fear in the eyes of the teams we play. The best players available to do that are Randy Moss, and that foul former enemy Jason Taylor. …OK to hell with Taylor.
WE simply must have at least one player on offense that scares people….we do not.
I wish you same 3 posters that act as if you know something….frustrated wanna be”s would stop your lame rant about yet another running back….please we spent 20 million on Jones…and he is a stud….and will with our current additions produce.
You are right Neil only about Randy Moss. TJ stud ? why do 3 different teams turn their backs on him ? We had Curtis Martin so we should know what stud looks like. McFadden is a stud ! Hell, bring Randy moss and McFadden.
Pay close attention to the style of Jones. He had no blocking….Look at his work in Chicago….look close. Look at his weight room work and his work ethic. He is something special…as is Leon. We need and must have a pass rusher and a deep threat.
Greenblood….look at tape of TJ when he played in Chicago. Look at the flashes he showed last year with us…and he had no blocking. TJ is the real deal…now lets get a real pass rusher and deep threat.
Lets take Moss away from cheater Bill…Lets hurt him any way we can.
neil
Thomas Jones is not an elite RB end of story.
I’ve actually seen Mendenhall play in person and he happens to be an excellent RB but then again Indiana can’t stop the run.
although if the Jets are stinkin it up still in 2-3 years Knowshon Moreno of Georgia will be a phenomenal RB and I played against him in high school.
I sent this email to a friend last week: “McShay has us taking D Mac and Gholston going to NE. How mad are you going to be if you see Gholston blow past D Brick, knock Dmac 5 yards back and breaking Clemens’ neck?”
ATTENTION FRONT OFFICE: we do not need to take the “value pick” because he has “home run speed”. The following teams had awesome O Lines, good defenses, did not have “home run” speed and either went to the playoffs or won the Super Bowl:
1. Brandon Jacobs (not to mention the fact that because this O LINE was awesome, every back that set foot on the field ran well. Ala D. Ward and Bradshaw).
2. NE Running Backs who started Super Bowls: Corey Dillon (past his prime and without “home run” speed and Antowain (are you F@#$ing joking) Smith.
3. Thomas Jones and the Bears D beat up on the explosive Saints
These are a few that stick out but I think I have substantiated my point that a solid O LINE and D will make us a far better team than if we have McFadden.
Take Gholston and we are already significantly better on both sides of the ball.
Would you rather be the Chargers with LT, the Saints with Bush and Deuce, the Vikings with Purple Jesus, and to go backa few years the Lions with Barry Sanders or would you rather be in the Super Bowl and possible Champions like
the Giants: great Oline and Dline
The Patriots several times (these teams did not have a single superstar on either side of the ball aside from Brady).
I will take a solid and productive (despite a turnstileesque O line) TJ and a good D with the addition of Gholston rather than betting the house on DMcDaddy.
RICH: Remember Terrell Davis? Did Ryan Grant impress you last season? How about Justin Fargas? Were you impressed by the Giants ability to run the ball with a 7th rounder and a Undrafted free agent? How about Willie Parker or Priest Holmes?
Sorry, guys, missed the weekend comments. RICH, again, are you telling me that TJ cant run for 1500 and 10 TD’s? He ran for 1100 last year and we had the worst OL in the league and no QB.
sean
good point but I’m not a big fan of Gholston. If the Jets don’t want McFadden (understandable) you trade down with a team willing to give up alot to get McFadden.
For example
The Jets trade their 6th pick and their newly acquired 4th round pick from Cincy to the Cowboys (who for some reason feel they need a RB), for their 22nd and 28th pick as well as their 3rd round pick.
Sean
btw no chance Thomas Jones gets 1500 Yds and 10 TDs. He doesnt have the speed or the big play capability but 1300yds and 6-8 TDs is still reasonable