Should The Jets Consider Trading Down?
Mack Rosenberg of SBNation’s NY Landing Strip writes weekly for TJB. Today he looks at what the Jets chances of moving down with the sixth pick will likely be.
I had a great first reaction from the fans here at TJB, and I am very glad that y’all are welcoming me in to my new home smoothly. As I mentioned in my first column, I will be doing a variety of things here on the site. Once a week, I will hit you with some thoughts on the draft. After the draft, it will be strictly Jets football from there on out. Hope you have enjoyed me so far!
Anyway, last week’s column focused on Darren McFadden and how the Jets should think about adding him into their plans for the draft. I was sort of torn on the whole topic, but now I think its safe to say he won’t be in our thoughts on draft day, even if he falls to us. You never know, though.
So the catalyst for all of this was the signing of Jesse Chatman, the running back whose name kind of sounds like an outlaw from the wild west, but instead its the name that now sits on the Jets depth chart behind Leon Washington and Thomas Jones. Chatman filled in for Ronnie Brown last year in Miami, when Brown tore up his ACL leaving the running duties to the 223 pound, 29 year old Chatman. In 14 games played last year, Jesse didn’t quite play like an outlaw, but his numbers were acceptable for a career backup. He did break some of his own season records, rushing for 515 yards. He scored one rushing touchdown, just as much as Thomas Jones did last year.
Nice comparison, right?
So the Jets signed him to a one year deal on March 10th, hoping to be a guy who plays on some third downs here and there, and maybe a guy who could play with Leon on special teams. Overall, I think we could see him in some role playing spots, but nothing too much. Leon is number two on the depth chart, and that’s not going to change anytime soon.
However, the signing of Chatman may open the door to some strange possibilities for Gang Green. Now that we have three — okay, I’m going to use this word-quality running backs, many are assuming that the Jets making a run at DMC is not in the cards anymore. I agree. I think we are now set for the season with running backs, but that’s just me. I really like Jones, and still think he can perform like he once did in Chicago when he was on a team with a worse offense than the Jets. His performance dropped considerably last year, with his first year in New York not pleasing to the fans. But I still love him to have a breakout year in 2008.
So the first question to you is, should we still fantasize about McFadden becoming a Jet? Does it still make sense? The answer is no. Even if McFadden is drafted by the Jets, we simply don’t need him. He is that good, don’t get me wrong. But the simple fact is, we don’t need the help in this area anymore. That is unless you don’t think the three that we have are reliable enough. I certainly do.
Okay, so the second question I pose is: If we don’t need McFadden, should we just trade down in the draft? Well, that is a touchy subject. I got an email from one of my readers over at NY Landing Strip on SB Nation about this. He basically asked me if it was a good idea to explore other options in the draft, such as trading down. Here’s what I told him:
About Chatman, I really think signing him solidifies what we have to offer now in the backfield. All three guys are young, with experience and obvious talent. I think it was a very good move to get him. Pertaining to the draft now, you pose a very good question. I never thought we should have gone after McFadden anyway, but it was one of those things where I thought: hey if he’s there, you almost have to take him.
Now that we have Chatman, I think it’s almost obvious not to even think about DMC anymore. I definitely don’t think we should trade down, if that’s what your asking me. We have the perfect spot in the draft, and I think there’s no question we should keep it. Even with all the signings we made in free agency, we can still have a great draft to make the off season even better.
It doesn’t really matter to me about Dallas and what they have been rumored to do. You never know with Jerry Jones, but if they trade with the Dolphins for the number one pick, I’m just thinking they’ll take McFadden and that will be one less player available to us at number six.
That’s my honest opinion on the situation, and I’m sticking with it. It may come back to bite us, but what can you do? Its the right move to make, and we have to accept whatever happens.
I’d love to know what you think on the idea, as you can post your thoughts in the comments and please feel free to email me- LEFTY120491@gmail.com with any thoughts. If you’d like to submit a question or comment that you may have about the Jets, you can email nylandingstrip@gmail.com and I’ll post my response to your question on my blog, which you should also check out for updating news on the Jets (as if you don’t already have that here), and my opinions on other topics like free agency.
58 Responses to Should The Jets Consider Trading Down?
-
HOZ THE JET says:
t he pick will only get traded if dmc and gholston is off the board…….. period.
-
I think we should stay at the #6 spot. We should draft gholston at #6 (if he’s there) and if he’s not there draft D. Mcfadden. We should ONLY trade down if those 2 players are gone. In the 2nd round we should get the Delaware QB Flacco. We need to address the QB situation early and I think Flacco would be great to bring in to compete with Chad and Kellen. Getting Flacco is just as important as what we do in round one because it’s obvious Chad is a short term solution at best and Kellen is too unproven not to at least try something new.
-
billvv says:
Until a team invites a trade, it’s a waste of time.
-
subwayfare says:
billvv is exactly right. They should prepare for all eventualities, obviously, but you have to go into the draft assuming no one is going to offer anything for your pick.
-
P in CO says:
R in CT. Interesting! I had a similar dream except it didn’t involve the Jets, Vernon Gholston, or Tampa. Joe Francis, Paris Hilton, and my buddy Steve were somehow involved.
-
sec108 says:
I realize this is supposed to be a trade down thread, but mack said it so I’ve got to respond, does anyone really think the Jets signing Jesse Chatman means they are set at RB and should pass on McFadden if he is there at 6? I sure don’t.
If you want to look at this for next season only, sure you might come to this conclusion, but the draft is to build your team for the next 5 years, not just the next season, so I don’t see how signing a career backup to a one year deal for depth precludes us from drafting the consensus best player on the board at #6?
Thomas Jones is now on the wrong side of 30 which we all know means declining production for RBs. Leon Washington is a nifty playmaker in space, a terrific 3rd down and change of pace back that has never been asked to carry the load. Jesse Chatman is a career backup that isn’t even a lock to make the team, with the contract he signed. I don’t see how we are “set” at this position, especially when we are talking about a player of McFadden’s abilities the likes of which this offense hasn’t seen ever. He is a threat to take it all the way every time he touches the ball, that puts tremendous pressure on a defense and no other RB or offensive player at any other skill position for that matter brings that to the table.
Bottom line, jesse chatman should have no bearing whatsoever on selecting McFadden, drafting a player like him is about changing the dynamic of an offense by adding game breaking speed, something this team is sorely lacking, signing jesse chatman is about having a body to take a pounding in camp and maybe someone to spot start for you if catastrophe strikes and your lead guys go down.
-
TOON2388 says:
If Gholston & McFadden are still there, Tanny’s phone will be ringing off the hook. We listen to all offers – the OL & Pace signing have given us the luxury to listen to all offers.
-
seanmac says:
There is a reason why there aren’t many trades in the top ten anymore, and it’s simple- teams don’t want the picks. Every year you get the same situation, where the top five teams all desperately want to trade down. It’s going to be like that until a new collective bargaining agreement addresses rookie contracts. So a trade from six down into the twenties is basically an impossibility. If the Jets are able to move down at all, it would be in small increments. If there is only one DT on the board at six, for instance, they might be able to convince New Orleans to move up over Cincy, but it would be cheaper for the Saints to talk to New England or Baltimore, so there’s no guarantee that we could even pull that off. But the best situation would be a small drop down to 9-10, and then maybe an additional drop to the 14 range, adding picks along the way. And if you want Joe Flacco, you would have to take him there, because he’s going in the first round, and the odds are getting bigger by the day that he’s going in the teens. I don’t know that the team is that invested in the idea, but if they are, they certainly can’t wait until the second round. There is zero chance he’ll make it past Miami and Atlanta.
-
ramble914 says:
I’m just afraid that Gholston and McFadden will be gone when we pick at #6. If that happens, it dosen’t leave us with many options. Sure it would be great to trade down, but that can only happen if another team is willing. If Gholston and McFadden are gone than maybe Ryan would fall to us and that might be the catalyst if someone just has to have him and offers us a good trade. But in my oponion it would have to be two # 1′s, and only Dallas has that and they are not interested in Ryan. Baltimore may want Ryan, but I don’t know if they have the ammo to pulloff a trade.
-
Liam says:
Dude, the signing of a third string running back will have ZERO impact on what the Jets do with the #6 pick.
-
Having looked at this draft over and over, I would say that the players who are guaranteed not to be there are Chris Long, Jake Long and, if he checks out medically, Glenn Dorsey. At this point, I also think it’s a near certainty that Gholston goes in the top four selections (and I’ll be happy if he does, as he can spend his time lifting weights and playing mediocre football on someone else’s team). McFadden is probably going to be there. Matt Ryan is probably going to be there. Ellis, Mendenhall, the corners and all the rest will be there. Of those players, Ellis is the one who is most likely to generate a trade. McFadden isn’t universally considered the top running back in the draft, and even if he were, there are so many good running backs who figure to go in the next 30-40 picks that no one is going to be desperate to have him. In theory some team might want to jump Baltimore for Ryan, but again, there are quality quarterback prospects to be had later in the round and in the second, and there isn’t a team before around pick 14 that would consider such a move- an eight spot jump basically requires two first rounders, and I don’t see anyone valuing Ryan that highly above Brohm or Flacco. Ellis is a premiere player and might have some trade value simply because there are two teams picking close by who would be thrilled to take him, but they can just as easily deal with the Pats or Ravens as us, because we’re no threat to take him.
I think we’re going to be stuck at six, and we’re going to have to choose between McFadden, Mendenhall and Ryan.
-
Harvlis says:
If the Jets can get a 1st and 2nd round pick for their #6, go for it. They can get two quality players instead of one. As many people are not sure that McFadden or Gholston will dominate at the next level, why not fill two needs instead of one. If Jake Long somehow falls to us – all bets are off. Long will be a star in the league for a Long time.
-
will says:
These are good comments. I would only add that Alib Tariq has injected himself into the top of the draft with a really good pro day workout last week. He is someone in whom I can see the Jets having serious interest, even at #6. If not at #6 then the Jets will have a selection of excellent CB prospects from among which to pick if they trade down just a few spots (McKelvin, Talib, Cromartie, Jenkins).
The other piece of top-of-the-draft related news is that the Saints didnt give McAllister a roster bonus that was due him and may cut him next month. So, I can see the Saints shifting draft focus from defense to RB, depending of course on who’s there at #10. This sort of cuts against the Saints trading up.
-
dakar says:
it seems like im the only guy in here who agrees with everything m.rosenberg said…i also feel we never needed dmc…even before we signed chatman…but like i also said i wont complain if we do pick him either…or whatever we do for that matter…i believe the FO will do what they think is best for this team…as always just my thoughts…
-
SackDance99 says:
if seanmac’s scenario comes true, then the boldest and most controversial (and IMO the best) move is to take Ryan. The Jets have built a good OL, with decent RBs and some TE depth. It’s a “win now” offense, with age at crucial positions, like LG, RT, WR, and RB. To me, it looks like Chad will win the starting QB position and, if that’s the case, then Chad should be backed up by a true drop-back QB. KC is not that kind of QB and, if Chad beats him out, I have to question whether Mangini will ever go back to him. It will be like the Ravens with Boller, who may be better than KC. Boller always gets beaten out and the Ravens haven’t been able to groom a true replacement because Billick never wanted to admit his mistake. If Chad’s the guy, then draft Ryan if he’s there and trade/cut KC. Or, we’ll be the new Baltimore, signing re-treads and QBs past their primes, which may get us to the playoffs, but no further, with KC always waiting on the sideline.
As for this thread, the Jets will not trade down. It takes 2 parties to trade and nobody will trade up to sign any of the guys who will fall to 6. They’re just not good enough to warrant the expense.
-
Steve says:
Jesse Chatman means nothing to whether the Jets draft McFadden or not…If McFadden is still there and they don’t select him then they would have passed on him even if they never signed JEsse Chatman…I say this because unlike what the article says about Jones and Chatman being “young [and having] obvious talent” they are 30, which is the age that running backs begin their decline, so they are not young in NFL years, nor are they that talented. I may be so blind that a career back up who rushed for a career high 515 yards last year is going to help the Jets win a super bowl. I can see a home run threat running back helping that cause. Lets face it the Bears offense a couple years ago was without a doubt better than the Jets offense last year. Thomas Jones had 1 rushing TD, Leon had 3, Chatman had 1….thats a grand total of 5 rushing TDs from our 3 RBs on the depth chart right now….The new O-lne SHOULD help but how much?? We do not have a big play WR or TE…if we did we aren’t even sure if we have a QB on a roster to get them the ball consistantly…So if a home run hitter like McFadden is there you have to consider him….As far as Gholston he is also in the picture even after the Pace signing because Pace’s contract is set up to where it would not be surprising if he is cut next year if he has a bad season because he is due around a $9 million roster bonus next yr as reported on this website…i can’t remember the exact number, but its big enough
-
SackDance….if this is a “win now” offense we are in serious trouble…Coles might be gone…if not he will most likely be upset and whining all year…Cotchery is very good but not a TD waiting to happen…I would say that with the amount of money the FO spent they wanted to ensure that they made a big improvement over last year, but this is not a super bowl offense….I can’t even remember how many times we scored 2 offensive TDs last year…Leons kick returns don’t count…and asking the defense to carry the team to the playoffs is asking alot….I still hope they somehow win everything though
-
Will the Saints running game took off when Bush also got hurt and Aaron Stecker and Pierre Thomas (a rookie last year) took the carries and played extremely well. I expect the Saints to shuffle these players this year and to only address the RB position in the late rounds
-
Ah, but what if the Jets are one of the several teams rumored to have Joe Flacco as the #1 quarterback on their board?
I don’t really see this as a win-now offense or a win-now team. I look at the free agent signings as very expensive placeholders. It’s incumbent on the team to make sure that they find younger and cheaper players to replace every single one of the guys they’ve just signed save Pace in the next 3-4 years.
I don’t share Sack’s sense of doom regarding Clemens’ future, but I can certainly understand the logic of going quarterback at six. Running back is the position where the best talent would appear to lie with McFadden and Mendenhall, but it’s also a position where there is statistically the least difference between starters and replacement level players. The cornerbacks simply don’t seem worthy. If the team wants to give themselves the best possible chance of having a stud at quarterback, they may simply be better off taking their man at six rather than waiting until the second round. If they don’t like the other talent at the top end and they can’t trade down, then Ryan-or Flacco, for that matter-could prove more palatable than the cost of trading up into the bottom half of the first round to make sure they lock down Flacco. They need those picks in this year and next year’s draft (and sadly, they need them to make sure they have replacements for Faneca and Jenkins).
-
Steve says:
“Hope you have enjoyed me so far!”
Wow, someone sounds self-conscious.
-
Jeff Dolfini says:
I believe that the only logical thing to do here is trade down if Gholston and Chris Long are already gone. Ellis comes with injury concerns and we definitely don’t need McFadden, but someone would love to jump up to get them. I say we trade down into the low teens and pick up anther 2nd round pick.(That is the going rate for that pick). I think we then address corner, de for the 3-4, and a stud offensive tackle like Gosder Cherilius or Hicks from Nebraska to add depth. We can then use one of our three fourth round picks on a qb that could turn out to be real good in a couple of years and if he doesn’t then it was a low risk move anyway. We can certainly go all the way with the team we have, we just need a few more defensive pieces. Remember, the Bucs won with Trent Dilfer at qb.
-
Sam says:
The Ravens won with Dilfer, the Bucs won with Brad Johnson…but I know that’s not your point. I think that if Gholston and McFadden are both somehow there, they should draft Gholson, because McFadden’s gonna carry too much weight with him to the team, and as the Giants just proved, having a defense that can consistently put pressure on the opposing QB makes your whole team exponentially better.
-
Thanks for the correction, but even look at the Giants, they won with Eli Manning because of their defense. Defense wins championships and with a few more pieces we could have a real chance at this. Thomas Jones should have 1600 yards this year behind this line and if we can get to the quarterback then we can win with one of our quarterbacks. Brad Johnson and Dilfer were no better than Chad. Running game and defense is the way to win consistently in the nfl.
-
GREENBLOOD says:
sec108 Time: March 17, 2008, 5:11 pm – for this coment you get a 10+
-
I really don’t think that this team is set up to win now. That doesn’t seem to be how Tangini operates. They need to draft a cb, wr, de or dt and add depth on the o-line. QB is the wild card, I don’t see them giving up on Clemens this soon, especially because he and Chad were both playing with such crap around them last year. The team is already vastly improved with the free agent signings and whether vastly improved means a 10 win season or a 7 win season, it’ll still be better. I think in general, they’ll go for BPA and consider trades if they come up. If a QB or RB is there that they deem too good to pass up (I have doubts if dmc qualifies), they’ll likely pull the trigger. That’s how they got Chad in the first place – no one thought he’d be there in the late teens and by all accounts, the Jets weren’t looking for a QB, but he fell into their laps. Something similar could certainly happen this year as the drafts are so unpredictable.
-
Steve – Preach on baby !!!!
-
Joe F says:
If we trade down it should be substantial and not, say, from #6 to #10. Our most pressing need is a starting CB and since the Patriots pick straight after us and will almost certainly select a CB, the only way to guarantee we get the top guy on our board is to stay where we are.
One of Ellis or Dorsey will fall to #9, given team needs and the fact that picks 6,7 & 8 run a 3-4 defense. This means anyone wanting an A grade DT only needs to trade up to #9 – I mention this because out of the top six players on talent, it’s likely only one of these two will be available when we pick.
In short, the #6 pick is as valuable as the #9 in this year’s draft and that makes it hard to get value.
-
Sam, that Giants point,consider this. They have a QB drafted 1st overall (or 4th), WR 1st rd (Plax – Pitt), TE 1st rd, 3 OL 1st rd. Team of highly drafted and highly paid Pro’s. Or take Colts from a year ago. 1st overall QB, 1st rd RB, 1st 2nd 3rd WR all drafted in 1st rd, TE 1st rd.
POINT – score points and you win SB. Draft Gholston or anyone over McFadden and let me know how you are doing in a season or two. Plus, with our recent history, that pick you make will be traded away in 2010 for a 3rd rounder due to “scheme reconfiguration” that a new staff brings.
-
gr33n says:
Look, the way I see the Jets offseason moves is not in a light that says “This is what we won’t look for during the draft.” but rather “This is what we won’t NEED TO look for during the draft.” These moves give the Jets the flexibility to draft the best players available, rather than having to fill gaping holes. If Gholston and McFadden are there, you can be damn sure that McFadden will not be a small consideration.
-
Joe,
If you’re a believer in how the Patriots have drafted (and it’s hard not to be, considering how they keep on manufacturing more and more draft picks for themselves), then you don’t want your pick of the cornerback crop, for instance. When you have a group of players with a similar grade, you want to put yourself in position to take the last player, not the first, by trading down and trading down, stockpiling picks and then, as soon as the second-to-last player comes off the board, moving up to ensure you get your guy. If the Pats (or the Jets) have two players like McKelvin and Rodgers-Cromartie with the same grades, then the Pats could really care less who we deny them. The second player is always going to be more valuable because you are paying him less money and because you conceivably picked up additional draft picks in the process before taking him.
-
I know it hasn’t come up much, but does anyone think the Jets may actually trade UP?
I’m not saying they will, just sorta thinking about all the scenarios. Last year, they didn’t like the draft group and traded up twice to get the guys they wanted. Well, if they can’t find a partner to trade down with to get the picks they want, could they go up to get a Chris Long or whoever they truly covet?
I guess I’m thinking this because it seems that their MO lately has been to get the best player at whatever need they have. Think about it — last year’s draft, they went and got the best CB, then traded up to get the best ILB available. In free agency this year, they targeted the best LG, the best OLB and the best fullback, and did what they had to do to get them all.
Just trying to think outside the box a bit …
-
Rharnick says:
Chatman solves the RB issues, you have to be kidding. Look the Jets probably won’t have a top flight QB for quite some time. So they should build around the running game and defense. I say if Mcfadden is there they should take him, unless they are offered at least a mid first a second and a third, for the pick.
-
cbiscuit says:
You hit the nail on the head Rharnick. All our moves this offseason indicate that we will build around the running game and defense. To me that eliminates taking a QB with a high pick. The best thing with our situation now, is that we have options. I agree with seanmac that, if we follow the NE model, our first choice would be to trade down and stockpile picks. Without a partner, we have the luxury of going BPA at 6, which would be DMac on the offensive side, if he’s available. This is not unrealistic given our focus on the ground game. Top offensive need pick is WR, but there’s no way we take one this high. On the defensive side, top need is DB, which could happen, but I believe Tangini wants pass rush. I also believe they prioritize defense over offense. If Gholston is there, he is our guy.
-
Joe says:
I think that this draft is too deep at RB to waste all that money in DMC.(mendenhall,stewart,even Ray Rice in later rounds). CB is another postion that I think is too deep. Any CB selected at 6 with be a reach since no one seems to be able to pick the best one. We’re not taking Ryan first. I’m not sold on Gholston. The only picks at 6 I would like would be Chris or Jake Long(but both will be gone). Trading with dallas makes the most sense if we could pull it off. With two first you could take a CB(Talib or whoever) maybe WR(although I dont like taking WR in the first round). Flacco is a great second round choice. Fourth round could b Rice at RB and a safety.
Just my thoughts
-
efootball22 says:
i think we, at this point, would rather have more picks than higher ones. Sure dmac is explosive, but if we needed a running back, why not wait until later and get someone like ray rice or even felix jones, i think the most underrated player this draft. As for qb, i think we should draft either matt flynn with a fourth rounder or erik ainge They’ll both be around then, and flynn is a great leader, bringing a lot of success to LSU. he is mobile, and if our line proves to be faulty, that could be made up for. ainge is a huge guy at 6’6″, and will be tough to bring down. powerful, accurate throwing ability. could be risky cause of injuries, but as a second day draft pcik, what do we have to lose. I think qb’s tend to have more successful careers as a late pick since they have to earn everything they get, and that could make either of these guys turn into a brady-type (not skill neccessarily but a late round steal who works for everything and turns out a better leader because of it.
-
Seanmac,
I don’t think it’s an issue of denying the Pats their first choice more than us landing ours.
Let’s assume for a second the Draft Muncher is the order and CB is our primary objective – we could trade down to #22 (Dallas) where McKelvin, Rodgers-Cromartie, Jenkins and Talib have already gone. Is the fifth-rated CB worth the late round pick we would get from the Cowboys in exchange? Maybe, maybe not. I just know this draft is regarded as not being that deep.
-
seanmac, Faneca and Woody are awfully expensive placeholders. TJ, Richardson, Franks and Coles are all 30+. I guess that I am the only one that sees this offense as set up for a “win now” run. I was listening to NFL Radio on Sirius all weekend and every time the QB situation was mentioned, the announcers all said they thought Chad would start. That would put in another 30+ player at the most important offensive position and make 7 of 11 starters 30+. So, I think the age of the key offensive position players speaks for itself…Mangini may be copying another Boston team’s blueprint: the Celtics’. Adding DMc would make sense because he’s a playmaker, but grooming a QB is still a must. I just don’t see KC as the QB of the future if Mangini chooses to return Chad as the starter. And, if KC isn’t the QB of the future, then the Jets better draft one. Flacco, Brohm, Woodson and Ainge are all interesting prospects. If the Jets stick with KC, IMO, DMc makes even more sense because KC will need a superior running game to take the pressure off of him. Chatman and Mendenhall won’t scare defensive coordinators, DMc will.
-
They are expensive placeholders. Necessary, but expensive. Basically, the Jets have engineered their cap so as to take Parcells’ old hold-the-fort strategy to a whole new level. Aside from Pace, none of these guys would qualify as players who the team is envisioning as their core going forward. But they were necessary to get the offensive and defensive systems working well enough to a) evaluate the young players and b) give the team breathing room as they try to find cheaper and younger replacements. I certainly hope that they aren’t expecting Pro Bowl caliber performances out of Faneca and Jenkins over the next four years, because that’s unlikely.
I’m not so certain that Chad will start- I actually think there is a decent chance that he gets moved on draft day if he makes it clear that he doesn’t want to be here. But even if he stays and wins the job (and I think he would be favored to do so), I don’t think it would have any bearing on Clemens’ long-term future with the team. You take these things on a year-by-year basis. Tony Romo was stuck on the bench until he was 26. David Garrard was stuck on the bench until he was 29. Clemens is 24, he’s not costing the team a lot of money, and if they like him- if he’s impressive in training camp and the preseason- then there’s no reason to think anything has changed. On the contrary, he’d still be likely to see significant action, as Chad has only made it through sixteen games once in his career.
The best argument to take a quarterback in the draft this year isn’t Clemens per se, but rather the perceived weakness of next year’s QB class. In effect, you don’t want to find yourself in a position next year where you find out that Clemens can’t play and you can’t do anything about it in the draft (although to be fair, it’s likely that next year’s class will look better after another full season as guys step up and make their presences felt). On the other hand, if Clemens can play, then taking a quarterback anywhere in the first four rounds is potentially setting the franchise back, as they need to get a youth infusion at the offensive skill positions and a quarterback pick means no McFadden in the first or no Manningham or whomever in the second, etc, etc.
-
badgermatt says:
0ld question – talent vs. need? the need is on DEFENSE and i think the Jets should draft defense with this pick whether they move down or not. however, sometimes you gotta gamble a little and take the talent.
you gotta think tannenbaum wants McFadden OFF THE BOARD by the time they pick. then he can rebuild this defense that still needs a lot of help and wont forever be criticized for it when McFadden is a probowler.
offense wins games, defense wins championships, when do the Jets start to win? WIN IT FOR BENIGNO!!!
-
Mike says:
The Jets should look to get Gholston period. If not, it will haunt us for years. This guy is a machine. Now if both Golston and Mcfadden are gone..which is a possibility then and only then should they look to trade that pick. I would love another QB..perhaps Flacco.
The bottom line is we need is a passrusher with speed – which we haven’t had since Abraham. Let the games begin.
-
Dave Nash says:
I dont think the Jets should consider trading down at this point. At least at six, they are going to get at the very least one of the top defensive talents and it is more likely (although improbable) that one of the Longs could fall to the Jets at 6. That doesnt happen if they move out of the top ten.
-
Bent says: Interesting that you should mention the Celtics, sack. Obviously, putting together an NBA and NFL roster are very different, but as a fan of both franchises, it’s impossible not to notice the similarities.
The major one is that both teams took a measured approach, never conceding any flexililty or putting all their eggs into one basket. While this was going on, in both cases there was a lot of people saying that the guys in charge didn’t know what they were doing, but to me at least it was clear that a plan was in place.
Once a team starts to win, it becomes so much easier in terms of team unity and adding guys cheaply to improve the roster. I don’t know if the C’s will win a title with their current set up and I don’t know if the Jets will see as much success right away, but one thing’s for sure, it’s more fun watching a team that wins.
Nobody wants to hear me go into detail about the Celtics though.
-
Zenlaw says:
Joe at 12:29 am makes a very important point. This year’s draft is pretty deep at the RB position. For that reason, perhaps the Jets would find more value in a back drafted in a later round (assuming the Jets think RB is a position of need).
I think the Jets are pretty set at the RB position this year. I have confidence that TJ still has plenty of gas in the tank for a good season. Leon and Jesse are good change of pace backups. The Jets can afford to look past the RB position in this draft.
-
96debacle says:
if Gholston AND McDaddy are gone we have even less of a chance on trading down. less of course one of the Longs are still on the board. In that situation I really don’t want to trade out, I’d take the Long.
Mack, how is it Jones (30) and Chatman (29) are young? How can you compare Chathman to McDaddy? He hasn’t exactly lit it up in his 6 years. then again McDaddy hasn’t stepped onto an NFL field either but the upside is there.Then again, Scores will probably be hosting McFaddens draft party…
-
I only watched a couple of OSU games and I thought Gholston was good, but I just don’t think he’s going to blow past NFL LTs (I also thought Harvey played with more violence, but I know Gholston has a lot of fans). Yes, he dominated Jake Long, but Long is projected as an NFL RT. Plus, this draft has a number of DE/OLB prospects that should last until the late first or early second round like Groves, or Calais Campbell. And, virtually all of the ILB candidates will be there in the 2nd round or later. Not to mention, BT, Bowens and Murrell are all on the roster as potential pass rushers from the outside. So, with the 6th pick, the Jets have the luxury of going BPA, which would be DMc, if he’s there. If not, I trust Mangini/Tannenbaum to make the right pick.
-
seanmac, Romo and Garrard weren’t used as yo-yos–named the starter over the incumbent, only to see the incumbent come back as the starter. If Mangini benches KC in favor of Chad, that’s a damning admission that KC is not NFL-ready. I tried to think of a situation where the back up beat out the incumbent, only to lose the starting position on merit, not injury, and could not think of a single instance (Leinart and Warner is close, but they shared the position and I don’t think anyone believes that Leinart isn’t the franchise’s future). If you’re right and Chad is traded, then the Jets have a huge hole at QB and will need a veteran to back up KC, and it should be someone with his skill set. Hey, maybe the Ravens will deal Boller (note: sarcasm).
-
Garrard had some very similar yo-yoing. Two seasons ago he took over because of injuries, played well for a while and then got worse to the point where he was yanked in the final game for Quinn Grey (with a playoff spot on the line, no less). Then the Jags went into last season insisting that Leftwich was the starter and that there was no competition, right up until they named Garrard the starter and cut Leftwich. There are some differences–Garrard’s and Leftwich’s draft statuses made Garrard the perpetual underdog, and the personality clash between Del Rio and Leftwich undoubtedly worked as a factor, but it’s absolutely an example of a guy getting jerked around and then stepping in and performing like a top five quarterback at the end of it.
The whole handling of the quarterback situation was a little wonky this year. Clemens played better than Chad in the preseason, but because there was no open competition, it didn’t mean much. When Chad was benched, it wasn’t because of his performance-he’d just come off one of his best performances of the year, and it was the defense that was killing the team more than anything. Clemens came in and had his moments, but by and large regressed in the face of sustained pressure. But he was only taken out because he was injured, and as soon as he was cleared, he was allowed to play again in the finale.
The important thing as relates to the Jacksonville situation is that Garrard was forced to go out and earn the job. The continued presence of Pennington forces Clemens to do the same. In contrast, if we were to draft Ryan at six, for instance, he would be handed the job in much the same way that Clemens was handed the job last year, on the basis of being “the future” instead of because he took it for himself.
-
The obvious efforts to bolster the O-line and running game could be interpreted as an intention to go with either KC or Chad. In Chad’s case the thought could be that with a strong running game and O-line, his conservative, game management skills could more easily deliver wins. On the other hand, the same benefits could provide KC with a better environment in which to progress and grow as an NFL QB.
Because I agree with seanmac that the money spent in FA was less “win-now” and more about setting the bar higher at key positions to better establish the systems and have models to draft and coach young players into, I’d be surprised if they weren’t going to go with KC.
I could see Chad traded either on draft day or sometime before camp if they can find a decent veteran to back up K.C. I think it’s now or never for KC, the right time and price to see if he’s the future. it wouldn’t shock me if they took a QB in later rounds but just can’t see them investing huge dollars in a first rounder, even if they like Ryan. I’d say if McFadden’s there at 6 he’ll be wearing a green jersey this summer because it’s likely no one values him enough to make a trade down worth it. I hope Jerry Jones does but I just don’t see it.
-
What worries me about trading Chad is: who is going to come in and learn this offense (which is a bit cerebral with alot of plays – although you couldn’t tell last year with all those fade routes to LC) quickly and be reday to play? Keep in mind that unless we’re all missing something, Kellen isn’t anointed the outright starter, so whoever comes in might have to play. It’s not like bringing in a backup for an established starter, KC could conceivably wilt under pressure. Chad knows the system inside and out. If he doesn’t win the starting job, he will be far and away the best backup they could have. He might not like it, but who would be better that would be willing to be a backup? I don’t see them drafting a high round QB, it’s way too early to give up on KC.
I get nervous when people write about Ghoulston, DMC or whoever as machines that will be pro bowlers, etc. We’ve all seen plenty of guys who’ve torn up the college ranks only to fade into obscurity in the pros. I like the strategy of taking the last guy with a high ranking at a given position, rather than the first, unless of course you can’t trade the pick. No one is a given to succeed.
-
Anyone know what Chad’s salary/cap number is this year?
-
Bent says:
“Yes, [Gholston] dominated Jake Long, but Long is projected as an NFL RT. ”
Not really. VG had three sacks in the game, but 80% of the time was up against Steve Schilling, the RT, who he dominated unless they gave him help. Although, he didn’t go one-on-one with Long much, Long absolutely owned him every time, but then on the final time they lined up opposite each other, VG got him off balance with a quick first step and muscled past him on the outside for a sack. Until that point, Long had handled him very well.
(Of course, if he only faced him 20% of the time, maybe that translates to five sacks! Either way, he only beat Long once, so to say he dominated him is not fair on Long).
-
He’s scheduled to make $4.8M in ’08, $7.8M counts against the cap. If we trade him, we take a $6M hit, but save $1.8M against the cap.
-
I have seen it said of the FA additions that they are “place holders.” To my way of thinking, if you weren’t in the Pro Bowl, or should have been, you are in fact a place holder.
Again, if you don’t get an offer to trade down, “I’d trade down” isn’t a logical statement.
What we are trying to do here is fathom the thinking for the draft based on clues from FA. I believe they have made the case for BPA with a short list of “more needed” being CB, WR and ILB. It may go to undrafted free agents until they find what they like this year, but they have be looking for the stuff of Pro Bowlers in every pick.
-
Nearly 5 million is a lot of dough for a backup. And he’s made it clear he wants to start. On the other hand, I don’t know how much other GMs and coaches share his confidence and what the market is. For all the good things he’s done, he’s nothing if not injury prone.
I just don’t see how sending KC back to the bench says anything other than they’re giving up on him and that could have lasting repercussions to his confidence and his teammates’ confidence in him.
Definitely a murky situation. I honestly don’t know what they’ll do. Maybe they don’t either, but my hunch is that it’s Kellen’s shot and Chad will be traded if value can be had or kept for insurance otherwise. I’m not up to speed on next year’s QB class but I’d guarantee the FO is.
-
All our additions to this point – Callahan, Faneca, Woody, Chatman, Richardson, and now Franks – all were made to strengthen our running attack. IMO Chad will lead this offense with KC as backup for at least another year, or until Chad gets hurt. This can only help his development and hopefully he sees it that way.
-
R in CT – interesting to see Peter King thinking ‘out of the box’ today. He pretty much parrots your post from last night on the Jets possibly moving up to get Chris Long. I bet Tuna’s first preference is to trade down and Long would be a beast in our system.
I swear, this is a true story — I had a dream last night about the draft and the Jets traded down to the #20 slot — Tampa?! The really weird part — aside from having to admit that I dream about the NFL draft — is that they were still somehow able to get Gholston.