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	<title>Comments on: Link: Florio On Pennington</title>
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	<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/03/28/link-florio-on-pennington/</link>
	<description>Ranting and Raving about the Gang Green</description>
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		<title>By: seanmac</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/03/28/link-florio-on-pennington/#comment-76069</link>
		<dc:creator>seanmac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=3779#comment-76069</guid>
		<description>Sack,

It&#039;s not hypocritical for me to find the argument that Clemens is a bust after half a season&#039;s worth of play to be dubious, and to find the notion that because he failed to step up when competing against a high school rival the proper course of action is to drop $30 million on a sketchy quarterback with an identical statistical profile to border on the nonsensical.  

Clemens did not play well, and I found it necessary to point that out to people who insisted that he was playing well because a) he wasn&#039;t Chad and/or b) because he won a few games.  But I didn&#039;t expect Clemens to play well when dropped into the same environment that Chad was already not playing well in.  Clemens did have some intermittent success, and he certainly showed an NFL-caliber arm and good mobility.  And while his performance was bad, it wasn&#039;t all that out of character with the performances of other young players who were forced into midseason duty, players who subsequently became good players.  In short, there was nothing that happened last season to sway me one way or the other on Clemens&#039; long-term viability. 

We have two fundamental disagreements- you think Chad Pennington is done and I don&#039;t, and you think (or hope) that Matt Ryan is another Ben Roethlisberger and I certainly don&#039;t.  That is what causes the strident disagreement.  You don&#039;t think we can afford to leave Clemens without competition based on last year&#039;s performance, and I would agree with you- I just happen to think that there is already competition on the roster in the form of Pennington.  You are also of the belief that the team shouldn&#039;t be so committed to Clemens that they pass over a truly elite quarterback prospect, and I would agree with that as well- the problem is that I think an elite quarterback should have played like an elite quarterback throughout his college career and have the statistical background to justify the selection and you think an elite quarterback should be able to reach the top shelf in the cupboard.  

As for Cutler, I&#039;ll say this about him- he projected to be a reasonably good quarterback, good for about 4.51 DPAR per game.  He did not project to be an elite quarterback along the lines of Rivers (7.59 DPAR), Roethlisberger (6.32 DPAR), Manning (6.34 DPAR) or Pennington (6.30 DPAR).  He did not project to be as good as Matt Leinart (6.24).  The projection system is not a simple pass/fail- it tries to peg players into tiers according to how they are likely to perform.  Cutler did not have a strong enough projection to warrant going at the top of the draft, not like the other mentioned players, but he represented good value in the middle of the round.  Matt Ryan would be decent value for a team drafting from about 17 onward.  But with his second round FO-profile, with his atrocious TD-INT ratio and subpar YPA, he represents an unacceptable risk at the top of the draft, for us or for anyone else.  

It&#039;s not a simple &quot;Clemens bad/Clemens good/Ryan bad/Ryan good&quot; argument.  It&#039;s about assessing risk and reward in the salary cap era.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sack,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not hypocritical for me to find the argument that Clemens is a bust after half a season&#8217;s worth of play to be dubious, and to find the notion that because he failed to step up when competing against a high school rival the proper course of action is to drop $30 million on a sketchy quarterback with an identical statistical profile to border on the nonsensical.  </p>
<p>Clemens did not play well, and I found it necessary to point that out to people who insisted that he was playing well because a) he wasn&#8217;t Chad and/or b) because he won a few games.  But I didn&#8217;t expect Clemens to play well when dropped into the same environment that Chad was already not playing well in.  Clemens did have some intermittent success, and he certainly showed an NFL-caliber arm and good mobility.  And while his performance was bad, it wasn&#8217;t all that out of character with the performances of other young players who were forced into midseason duty, players who subsequently became good players.  In short, there was nothing that happened last season to sway me one way or the other on Clemens&#8217; long-term viability. </p>
<p>We have two fundamental disagreements- you think Chad Pennington is done and I don&#8217;t, and you think (or hope) that Matt Ryan is another Ben Roethlisberger and I certainly don&#8217;t.  That is what causes the strident disagreement.  You don&#8217;t think we can afford to leave Clemens without competition based on last year&#8217;s performance, and I would agree with you- I just happen to think that there is already competition on the roster in the form of Pennington.  You are also of the belief that the team shouldn&#8217;t be so committed to Clemens that they pass over a truly elite quarterback prospect, and I would agree with that as well- the problem is that I think an elite quarterback should have played like an elite quarterback throughout his college career and have the statistical background to justify the selection and you think an elite quarterback should be able to reach the top shelf in the cupboard.  </p>
<p>As for Cutler, I&#8217;ll say this about him- he projected to be a reasonably good quarterback, good for about 4.51 DPAR per game.  He did not project to be an elite quarterback along the lines of Rivers (7.59 DPAR), Roethlisberger (6.32 DPAR), Manning (6.34 DPAR) or Pennington (6.30 DPAR).  He did not project to be as good as Matt Leinart (6.24).  The projection system is not a simple pass/fail- it tries to peg players into tiers according to how they are likely to perform.  Cutler did not have a strong enough projection to warrant going at the top of the draft, not like the other mentioned players, but he represented good value in the middle of the round.  Matt Ryan would be decent value for a team drafting from about 17 onward.  But with his second round FO-profile, with his atrocious TD-INT ratio and subpar YPA, he represents an unacceptable risk at the top of the draft, for us or for anyone else.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a simple &#8220;Clemens bad/Clemens good/Ryan bad/Ryan good&#8221; argument.  It&#8217;s about assessing risk and reward in the salary cap era.</p>
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		<title>By: SackDance99</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/03/28/link-florio-on-pennington/#comment-76049</link>
		<dc:creator>SackDance99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=3779#comment-76049</guid>
		<description>Oh, and it&#039;s a toss up as to which is worse, a pick six or a redzone pick.  In both instances, the QB impacts the score negatively.  There&#039;s even an argument to be made that redzone picks are worse because the last thing a QB should do is throw a redzone pick...it&#039;s poor decisionmaking in its most naked form.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and it&#8217;s a toss up as to which is worse, a pick six or a redzone pick.  In both instances, the QB impacts the score negatively.  There&#8217;s even an argument to be made that redzone picks are worse because the last thing a QB should do is throw a redzone pick&#8230;it&#8217;s poor decisionmaking in its most naked form.</p>
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		<title>By: SackDance99</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/03/28/link-florio-on-pennington/#comment-76046</link>
		<dc:creator>SackDance99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=3779#comment-76046</guid>
		<description>seanmac, your comments are so hypocritical when it comes to KC.  Last season, you were killing him after every start for being inaccurate.  You said over and over again with your fancy FO stats how terrible KC was and how Chad should still be the QB.  Honestly, what in KC&#039;s film from last season has led you to believe that he can be a successful NFL QB?  The best anyone can say is look at the Ravens game or that he won the Steelers game, a proposition you thought was ridiculous at the time.  I know you&#039;re not in the &quot;aww, his OL stunk, so let&#039;s give him 16 more games&quot; camp.  So, besides just giving me grief about Ryan or continuing to say that height is irrelevant for a QB&#039;s success (I just don&#039;t know how to respond to that one; it&#039;s just wrong), what is your honest assessment of KC.  If stats don&#039;t lie, then why should anyone be optimistic that KC will end up being a franchise QB?

As for &quot;whose INT was worse.&quot;  Cutler&#039;s was terrible from every conceivable standpoint.  First, it came in the Senior Bowl, so he should&#039;ve known that every poor decision would be held against him.  Second, it was unnecessary.  He wasn&#039;t scrambling at the end of the game trying to make something happen in the rain with his team ranked no. 2.  Third, his WR was clearly covered.  And, most importantly his ball placement was just horrible.  It was behind and thrown with such pace that there was no way his WR could have caught it without slowing down, allowing the safety to just cut in front of the WR.  And, as for telegraphing, Cutler locked on to the WR from the snap, and he was right in front of him.  The difference is, you will do anything to defend an FO darling like Cutler, but won&#039;t cut any break to Ryan, even though his protection broke down, he moved up in the huddle, and threw a bad pick on the run that was the result by a great play by the DB.  Cutler, on the other hand, could have knitted a sweater back there and had more than enough time to properly lead his WR.  But, you are right, KC would not have thrown that pick because he would&#039;ve run right into the DL after being flushed out of the pocket.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>seanmac, your comments are so hypocritical when it comes to KC.  Last season, you were killing him after every start for being inaccurate.  You said over and over again with your fancy FO stats how terrible KC was and how Chad should still be the QB.  Honestly, what in KC&#8217;s film from last season has led you to believe that he can be a successful NFL QB?  The best anyone can say is look at the Ravens game or that he won the Steelers game, a proposition you thought was ridiculous at the time.  I know you&#8217;re not in the &#8220;aww, his OL stunk, so let&#8217;s give him 16 more games&#8221; camp.  So, besides just giving me grief about Ryan or continuing to say that height is irrelevant for a QB&#8217;s success (I just don&#8217;t know how to respond to that one; it&#8217;s just wrong), what is your honest assessment of KC.  If stats don&#8217;t lie, then why should anyone be optimistic that KC will end up being a franchise QB?</p>
<p>As for &#8220;whose INT was worse.&#8221;  Cutler&#8217;s was terrible from every conceivable standpoint.  First, it came in the Senior Bowl, so he should&#8217;ve known that every poor decision would be held against him.  Second, it was unnecessary.  He wasn&#8217;t scrambling at the end of the game trying to make something happen in the rain with his team ranked no. 2.  Third, his WR was clearly covered.  And, most importantly his ball placement was just horrible.  It was behind and thrown with such pace that there was no way his WR could have caught it without slowing down, allowing the safety to just cut in front of the WR.  And, as for telegraphing, Cutler locked on to the WR from the snap, and he was right in front of him.  The difference is, you will do anything to defend an FO darling like Cutler, but won&#8217;t cut any break to Ryan, even though his protection broke down, he moved up in the huddle, and threw a bad pick on the run that was the result by a great play by the DB.  Cutler, on the other hand, could have knitted a sweater back there and had more than enough time to properly lead his WR.  But, you are right, KC would not have thrown that pick because he would&#8217;ve run right into the DL after being flushed out of the pocket.</p>
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		<title>By: seanmac</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/03/28/link-florio-on-pennington/#comment-76036</link>
		<dc:creator>seanmac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=3779#comment-76036</guid>
		<description>No, that wouldn&#039;t have worked at all- what we need are defensive touchdowns, and for that, you need to telegraph your checkdown throws, not rifle the ball and force the defender to make a diving catch.  Hell, Kellen Clemens can make that kind of interception.  But he&#039;s so small in the pocket that the defenders can&#039;t see him, so they aren&#039;t able to get the same kind of jump when it&#039;s time to try for the pick six...No, I need a tall quarterback, one who knows how to throw interceptions properly.  Because there&#039;s no play in football more exciting than a defensive score.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, that wouldn&#8217;t have worked at all- what we need are defensive touchdowns, and for that, you need to telegraph your checkdown throws, not rifle the ball and force the defender to make a diving catch.  Hell, Kellen Clemens can make that kind of interception.  But he&#8217;s so small in the pocket that the defenders can&#8217;t see him, so they aren&#8217;t able to get the same kind of jump when it&#8217;s time to try for the pick six&#8230;No, I need a tall quarterback, one who knows how to throw interceptions properly.  Because there&#8217;s no play in football more exciting than a defensive score.</p>
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		<title>By: SackDance99</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/03/28/link-florio-on-pennington/#comment-76031</link>
		<dc:creator>SackDance99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=3779#comment-76031</guid>
		<description>seanmac, I guess you didn&#039;t like the deep out for a TD that was perfectly placed, or the play action TD to the TE, who was the secondary read, or the over 400 yards passing.  But, I guess he should&#039;ve displayed the know-how in the redzone of this guy. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4dIokx90R8</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>seanmac, I guess you didn&#8217;t like the deep out for a TD that was perfectly placed, or the play action TD to the TE, who was the secondary read, or the over 400 yards passing.  But, I guess he should&#8217;ve displayed the know-how in the redzone of this guy. :-)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4dIokx90R8" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4dIokx90R8</a></p>
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		<title>By: seanmac</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/03/28/link-florio-on-pennington/#comment-75992</link>
		<dc:creator>seanmac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 05:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=3779#comment-75992</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s true, I&#039;m a little concerned about Clemens&#039; ability to throw pick sixes on checkdown passes while trying to rally the team.  I&#039;m not sure he has the height to properly telegraph where he&#039;s throwing to the defenders.  Not like this guy.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fflMJ6K2yrs

It&#039;s become such a staple of the Jets offense and we need to make sure we can continue to enjoy it after Chad is gone.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s true, I&#8217;m a little concerned about Clemens&#8217; ability to throw pick sixes on checkdown passes while trying to rally the team.  I&#8217;m not sure he has the height to properly telegraph where he&#8217;s throwing to the defenders.  Not like this guy.</p>
<p><a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=fflMJ6K2yrs" rel="nofollow">http://youtube.com/watch?v=fflMJ6K2yrs</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s become such a staple of the Jets offense and we need to make sure we can continue to enjoy it after Chad is gone.  :-)</p>
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		<title>By: SackDance99</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/03/28/link-florio-on-pennington/#comment-75987</link>
		<dc:creator>SackDance99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 03:30:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=3779#comment-75987</guid>
		<description>Bent was right, Clemens was also sacked 4 times and Jericho just had a terrific game.  I supported the change to KC and wanted it sooner. But, as the season progressed, KC&#039;s lack of pocket presence and poise, not to mention his lack of height and inaccuracy, convinced me that he&#039;s not the long-term answer.  Remember, I believe in Browning Nagle&#039;s first start, he threw 2 TDs and racked up 366 yards in a loss to the Falcons.  Nagle even beat the Pats.  He suffered through a 4-12 season in which aging vet and former starter, Ken O&#039;Brien, started 3 games.  As Yogi said: &quot;It&#039;s deja vu all over again.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bent was right, Clemens was also sacked 4 times and Jericho just had a terrific game.  I supported the change to KC and wanted it sooner. But, as the season progressed, KC&#8217;s lack of pocket presence and poise, not to mention his lack of height and inaccuracy, convinced me that he&#8217;s not the long-term answer.  Remember, I believe in Browning Nagle&#8217;s first start, he threw 2 TDs and racked up 366 yards in a loss to the Falcons.  Nagle even beat the Pats.  He suffered through a 4-12 season in which aging vet and former starter, Ken O&#8217;Brien, started 3 games.  As Yogi said: &#8220;It&#8217;s deja vu all over again.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bent</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/03/28/link-florio-on-pennington/#comment-75982</link>
		<dc:creator>Bent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=3779#comment-75982</guid>
		<description>It was a good display by Clemens, but I&#039;m pretty sure he had about 85 yards going into the fourth quarter until Baltimore dropped into a soft zone.

The jury is still out - as it should be.  All bets are off after last year.  You&#039;re right, there should be a competition.

Sack, I wasn&#039;t suggesting Chad needed to be great, just good enough for the Jets to win some games, which he was in 2006, so I don&#039;t see why he couldn&#039;t be again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was a good display by Clemens, but I&#8217;m pretty sure he had about 85 yards going into the fourth quarter until Baltimore dropped into a soft zone.</p>
<p>The jury is still out &#8211; as it should be.  All bets are off after last year.  You&#8217;re right, there should be a competition.</p>
<p>Sack, I wasn&#8217;t suggesting Chad needed to be great, just good enough for the Jets to win some games, which he was in 2006, so I don&#8217;t see why he couldn&#8217;t be again.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/03/28/link-florio-on-pennington/#comment-75977</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=3779#comment-75977</guid>
		<description>Sack did you watch this clip on youtube?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogqK5YbOzdg&amp;feature=related
This is why it&#039;s a competition... or at least a chance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sack did you watch this clip on youtube?<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogqK5YbOzdg&#038;feature=related" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogqK5YbOzdg&#038;feature=related</a><br />
This is why it&#8217;s a competition&#8230; or at least a chance.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/03/28/link-florio-on-pennington/#comment-75975</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 20:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=3779#comment-75975</guid>
		<description>Turd.. I watch every game I can and yes the Coles concussion was a direct result of a pass that took too long to get there aka the hospital pass. Thats Logic! Can really argue that most of penningtons throws outside the hash marks get there quick enough and what if you are wrong and we start losing our receivers? If you limit him to 20 passes a game and we can win I&#039;ll take him over anyone and that&#039;s not logic...That&#039;s loyalty. Put eight in the box... Blits him... Force him to throw deep... and the jets are done every time!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Turd.. I watch every game I can and yes the Coles concussion was a direct result of a pass that took too long to get there aka the hospital pass. Thats Logic! Can really argue that most of penningtons throws outside the hash marks get there quick enough and what if you are wrong and we start losing our receivers? If you limit him to 20 passes a game and we can win I&#8217;ll take him over anyone and that&#8217;s not logic&#8230;That&#8217;s loyalty. Put eight in the box&#8230; Blits him&#8230; Force him to throw deep&#8230; and the jets are done every time!</p>
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