Mangini Excited About Mo 2.0?
At the owners meeting yesterday in Palm Beach, Jets’ Coach Eric Mangini spoke very highly of Calvin Pace … also known as Mo 2.0:
“He reminded me a lot of Mo Lewis on tape: big, strong, fast, fluid guy. For a guy that size, not just height but weight, as fluid as he was, that was the player comparison that came to mind right away.
“He played outside, he put his hand down on third down and he played sub-end, which is consistent with what we do. He played in the middle in some of their substitute defenses, like a buck rover type position. To see him in all those different spots [was important]. The other thing that was impressive was to watch him on punt coverage. To see a guy like that run down and make plays in the open field and get the punt returner, for that size, is pretty impressive.
“Then to get to know him, talk to him — smart guy. It was really important to him as to what his roles would be, what type of game planning we did each week. That stuff excites him.”
Large contract aside, the quiet buzz around Pace is very compelling. Over the past month, we’ve heard quotes from coaches, unnamed scouts, and media who think this kid is the real deal.
With a guy who is as versatile as Mangini makes Pace out to be, it puts less pressure on Bryan Thomas to hold that role alone … remember Victor Hobson wasn’t exactly doing BT any favors in terms of mixing up pressures and such.
Pace potentially pushes BT down the depth chart but at the very least give the team two very versatile OLBs and makes the unit much more fluid in terms of strong-side / weakside formations. It will be interesting to see what the defense looks like … with Pace and BT the Jets could throw all kinds of wrenches in the works … five players with their hand down, more exotic blitz packages, this could be very very good.
This is a very exciting time to be a Jets Fan. Hopefully Pace turns out to what the coaching staff thinks he is.
And they’ll have plenty of time to work out formations and blitz packages that use their talents! That’s a big help!
Come on Najy! This is NOT a very exciting time to be a Jets fan! They made a few nice moves this offseason and took some gambles… all of a sudden you are ready to be all excited notwithstanding what happened last season?
I think it’s reasonable to be excited, not because we will definitely be good, but because nobody knows what will happen!
I like the comparison, although Pace is 14 pounds heavier. I’m not sure that BT moves down the depth chart, more like he slides over to the WILL spot, which he should be better at, and Pace starts on the strong side. Of course, if we draft a pass rusher, then BT could lose his job to the new guy.
Which raises the question, if BT (the stiff formerly known as Brian Thomas), unknown to all of us, is not a quintessential bust but a more than adequate OLB, does that mean we want Gholston to drop to us so we can trade out of that spot?
The Pats would take Gholston in a flash so any team wanting him would know they have to deal with us. If BT is not a bust, our need for him is lessened and dropping down fewer than 9 picks for extra good picks might be worth it.
Again, for me, the most interesting question in this draft is there anyone Tangini wants enough to take with the sixth pick?
Harlan
bent – aren’t the contract numbers more reasonable than originally thought?
Indeed. The guaranteed money is lower, so if he is a total bust, they could cut him after two years without killing their cap. If he is anything more than a total bust (which is quite likely), then they will pretty much have to pay him the amounts initially reported or try and restructure.
Harlan, I don’t think BT will play into the Jets thinking in terms of drafting Gholston. If they think Gholston will be a great player and there’s nobody better left, then they’ll take him. They’ll get use out of all three. Alternatively, the second round could be where they take someone to challenge for BT’s job.
No one should be more excited about this comparison than Matt Cassell, if Pace really is the 2nd coming of Morris Lewis then he’ll be impregnating supermodels in no time.
Nice…except the Pats could well draft a backup this year. It’s not like they have too many other needs.
How about this.. if gholston is available at six, we take him and then use brian thomas and our early second round pick to trade back down to the first round and pick up a top corner/saftey or receiver?
I think theres enough depth in the draft that moving up a few spots and losing BT wouldn’t be a good move. There will still be some quality players available with the 36th pick
I agree but we would be getting rid of his contract and salary to free up for next year.. Just a thought anyway.
It’s not a bad thought, but there would be a cap hit (although the salary saved would mean that only dead cap of $2m would be created for 2008, if I remember correctly).
The main barrier to this would be: is there actually a market for BT? If a team is going to take on a new player at DE who has question marks anyway (after his lowered production last year), then why wouldn’t they just use the pick to draft one?
(Note: there is one financially advantage to trading for veterans, even ones with risks attached, and that’s that you can cut them – or trade them again – with no cap hit. Don’t rule out the Jets doing this…)
Brian Thomas can be a great compliment to Calvin Pace. Especially with Kris Jenkins at nose, Brian Thomas can handel one on one matchups well. I like his ability to perform in that role.
My point was tho if Gholston was available at number 6, I would take him without a doubt because he is the best pure pass rusher in the draft. Now, we would have Gholston, Pace, and Thomas and they are all getting paid big $$$.. Gholston is an upgrade from Thomas as a pass rusher, thats why I would rather have him instead.
If that situation happens, I feel that it would be in the best interest of the Jets to get rid of Thomas if Gholston is available at #6.
Najy, don’t be fooled into thinking Gholston would be a lead pipe lock to be an instant upgrade over the much maligned BT. How do you know that? Gholston hasn’t played a down in the NFL. Having said that, I agree we should select him if we are unable to trade down from the 6th spot, despite in the words of seanmac he’s a “second round talent in a first round body.”
Doctor K
What makes him different from any other player in the draft? Correct me if im wrong, no of the players in the draft have played a down in the NFL but you can say a whole lot of them would be upgrades to some of the current players….
DSmizzle
I dont know about you, but the Jets have made more headlines in one month than the entire campaign last year. This one month is deffinetley more exciting than our entire year. This gives us hope for a new year and shows that our coaching staff is trying to imporve the team.
I guarantee you were one of those guys last year asking how come the Jets didnt make moves in the off season. Now that we are making big signings, how could you not get excited?
i think gholston would be a pretty good draft pick, but i dont think he is worth a number 6 pick…. however, the jets have a serious need, and if they could trade out of the 6th slot and maybe trade with someone looking for a qb in the draft, and get a lower draft pick plus some, it would be pretty good
Remember this about Gholston, he’ll have to learn pass protection. Thus he will start as a pure pass rusher. The point of depth in the draft is that there will be time for these rooks to learn the way, fitting in where they’re already accomplished and learning what they don’t.
I mean… do we all agree here that our top priority from last season is to get pass rushers? Quarterbacks had all day to throw the ball last year. We were picked upart by teams who had a good o line. I thought it was obvious that our biggest need was to upgrade the pass rush? Hence, the best pure pass rusher in the draft?
I think we should be some what optimistic about Bryan Thomas and his role in this years defense. Now that he is back on the weakside (which im sure none of you had any problems with him gettin 8.5 sacks there 2 years ago) he can get a lot of single teams and he should do well. Bryan Thomas can be an 8 sack guy for us this year, hes shown it before, lets have some faith in the guy.
i agree with mike g, he has a great point!! and i dont think we should pick up gholston…yes he did put up great numbers at the combine, but that does not mean he will perform on sunday…i think BT will put up way better numbers this year havin calvin pace on the strong side….and as far as the draft goes for us jet fans, in my mind i hope we go after the top CB in the draft and pick leodis mckelvin and snatch him away from the patriots….with another good CB like revis, we would have the youngest and most talented secondary in the NFL, and having another good CB complimenting Revis will let us blitz way more and let Harris, Pace, and BT get those sacks
m eazii
I saw the blueprint for winning a superbowl a couple months ago. Superior offensive line play and able to generate pressure with your down line men. The more talent and depth, at those positions, the better i think we will be. I feel that we would benefit the most from getting another player who can create havoc in the back field.
Plus i think everyone is forgetting that we still have Justin Miller on the team. He has tremendous athleticism and is young. Maybe he can be the second corner?
Nayj:
Have you been a fan long enough to remember some previous JETS signing sprees? How did those work out?
I’m not saying you shouldn’t be hopeful. I’m excited about the season because I think they have some young chips at important positions (Rhodes, Harris, Revis, Mangold, Cotchery, maybe D’Brick), and the signing have potential to be very good for sure.
I’d just like you to learn some caution because the JETS and the Redskins have been cited in the past for how spending sprees can go horribly wrong!
If these last 2 seasons (and the entire JETS history) has taught us anything, it should be to expect the worst but hope for the best, and there is some reason to be hopeful. While there have been some bright moments in recent history, if you’re a 28-year-old JETS fan who has been rooting since you were old enough to follow sports, you’d be a ‘lil jaded and guarded about the prospects of a spending spree working out before a season begins!
DSmizzle:
We are all on the same side here… but ask yourself this question? Can it get much worse than last year? I dont think so… 4-12 is close to rock bottom!!!!
Its obvious that we have more talent on our team this year than last year. There are still some doubts, obviously, because nothingis certain, but you have to be excited that our coaches are trying and they are commited to building a winning team. The coaches have identified our weaknesses, and they have went out and done something about it. Thats what you can be excited about.
In my opinion, I think we are a wildcard next year, in the sense that no one knows what to expect from us. We might be 6-10 or 10-6, and with the ease of our schedule next year, 10-6 is not to far fetched. Thats what im excited about.
They moved BT to the strong side last year right? Of the signings Pace ( who I was a huge skeptic of) may work out the best. He makes tackles and I like that. We need a run D.
Faneca and Franks should pay dividends as well. Woody, and Jenkins are wait and see guys tho. We need a RT, CB, ILB. There is a reason some of those contracts have bonuses and I don’t see Woody starting more than a year.
Najy:
Yes, they clearly brought in talent this offseason.
However, despite the genious coaching job 2 seasons ago, bringing them to 10-6… I don’t see that team as having had a high talent level. Kind of got worked week-in-week out on defense with an improvement in the 2nd half of the season. Nothing exciting on offense. Played above their talent level.
I gotta see them come out for their first few games with these new pieces clicking before I’ll be too excited.
I’m huge into the football offseason and the draft and all, so in that sense I’m excited every offseason, but I’m also a downtrodden JETS fan!!!
My point exactly… I cant wait to see what kind of impact these new players will have on our team.
However, 2 years ago, we had a much easier schedule than last year because we came off of a 4-12 season in Herm’s last year as our head coach.
With that said, this upcoming season is shaping up to be a similar situation to 2 years ago when we came off of a 4 -12 season and went 10-6 the following year, only this time around, we have more talent.
nijay u are right….the gmen did have control of the line of scrimmage and that is what gave them the superbowl win…and our o-line is way better than last year, i am just a lil worried bout woody at RT…he only got to play a couple of games last season at that spot…but i guess we will have 2 wait and see how he plays on sundays…but let me tell u if he does play his position good, and if he turns out to be worth all that money we gave himm our o-line will be 1 of the best in the nfl…we r definitely a run first offense and we all know to win in the nfl we need a good rushing attack….
Now as far as our defense goes, here is where i am more worried, we do need someone who will rush the passer, but like i sed before i think pace and BT will be good enough, as long as we have another pro bowl caliber CB on the other side of revis, whether it be miller(whom i completely forgot about) or someone from the draft….this will help out front 7 seven tremendously to have more time to get to the passer…remember, BT did have 7 sacks when he was playing on the weak side, but the way heplayed last year got me thinking twice….but i think pace and jenkins will lift our defense up and make the other players around them way better
I’m going to do a complete 180 and agree with DSmizzle (now he’s softened his stance).
Every time Jets fans enter the season optimistic, we are soon sent crashing down to earth (Chad’s injury, Vinny’s injury, the whole saga around week one last year). Let’s all at least pretend to be miserable and then maybe the football gods will take pity on us!
lol, that is kind of true Bent!!! hey, look at all the giant fans, they were miserable the way they started their last season off and look at them now….i will definitely take your advice and pretend to be miserable…lol
haahahahaa…. Good idea Bent!!
Here here. I agree with Bent (and thus with DSmizzle)often our hearts have been broken. I say we will go 3-13. We don’t have a def starting QB and our defense is a ? until after the bye. Bunch of bums they all are.
I was excited when they signed all those players that year they got Ronnie Lott. Too lazy for any real research… does anyone remember the full roster of guys they brought in that year? Or perhaps it was around that year? I do remember the newspapers saying that the Jets were the “Champions of the Offseason” or something like that. Granted, this was early in free agency, prior to the JETS and Redskins debacles when throwing money around in free agency.
In point of fact, aside from certain memorable one-player signings like Reggie White, etc., only the Patriots come to mind as a team that went free-agent-crazy and got paid huge dividends for it. Now, the situation with the JETS this year is a little different than in the past, as they do have a young nucleus to build around and despite the money they shelled out, only Alan Faneca is a “cornerstone”-type player they will be relying heavily upon, maybe Jenkins (although that was a TRADE). On the other hand, Damien Woody and Pace aren’t expected to be saviors. I think the last time the JETS did this type of spending spree, guys like Neil O’Donnell were expected to save the franchise and lead us to the promised land!
I think the proper term we should all have is “Guarded Optimism”.
Hey, this is what i live for, year round. I dont watch any other sport and I really dont care about any other sport. Much like the fans here, I dedicate myself to the Jets all year long. So for me, its kind of hard to go into any season not expecting to at least make the playoffs, because whats the point then? I will be miserable year round..
Personally, every year, until the Jets are mathematically out of the picutre, I believe that they will make the playoffs…
I prefer “cautiously pessimistic”…
Hopefully, as you allude to, there is a bit of a foundation in place and we should be OK financially, because they could afford all of these moves.
Erm, I mean this will be a complete and total disaster and anything better than 3-13 would be a complete shock, obviously…
“cautiously pessimistic” – doesn’t that cover about 80% of people on your side of the pond, Bent? :)
hey im a huge giants and mets fan, and every year im convinced my teams will win less than 25 percent of thier games…. as an outsider who watched almost every jets game last year what i did see was that you guys were three or four plays away in about half your games from winning them… the year before last, when you went ten and six you made those plays, last year you didnt… however, with the players you have already brought in and the draft coming up, i think you will be in a position to win alot more of those close games… but if i was a jets fan, i would seriously want management to consider drafting a quarterback in the second or third round… lets be honest here guys, i really dont think clemens is the future, and chad ball (my name for the jets offense in which chad throws 4 yard passes for the entire game, and invariably throws a 4th quarter interception while trying to win the game) is over….