Rumor Mongering: Matt Ryan & NY Jets
There’s a bunch of fresh rumor-mongering afoot, just five days from the draft … first up, Matt Ryan & the Jets.
Source: SI.com’s Peter King
Rumor: Matt Ryan is huge in Hempstead
Validity: It’s possible, but the Jets are certainly downplaying it to everyone if that’s the case. It wasn’t Ryan that they took to the Hammerstein Ballroom to meet Teddy Atlas. Matt Ryan was in last week for a visit, and it seemingly went unnoticed by the media until Friday when he talked about it on NFL Network. Kellen Clemens pre-draft visit was almost an afterthought in 2006 … is the team following the same M.O. again?
My Thoughts: The more I look at it, the more I think the true objects of their desire at the top (Chris Long, Vernon Gholston & Darren McFadden) will be gone by the time the team picks. If they are serious about wanting to move off the sixth pick to for another team to pick Matt Ryan, they sure better make other teams they would intend to pick him there first.
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Personally, I dont think that we saw anywhere near enough of Clemens to know what he is about.. From what I saw last year, he really needs to work on his accuracy but it wouldnt be fair to Clemens to draft another QB at the 6th spot without having given Kellen a full season to play.
Also, if Kellen is a bust, that would be 2 players, Schlegel and Kellen that were busts from the draft of 2 years ago plus the trading of a fourth round pick for Kevin Barlow. Also, D’Brick has not yet lived up to his expectations as the 4th overall pick in the draft.
The FO needs Clemens to live up to their expectations of him otherwise, the GREAT draft of 2 years ago might be reduced to just an average draft in terms of production.
They took a hit with the Scheighel pick, with Kevin Barlow Trade, and D’Brick has not lived to expectations thus far. They have to give Kellen a chance because the FO cannot afford to be wrong again. I dont think that there is a chance in hell that the Jets will draft Ryan. It is just one hell of a smoke-screen.
If Clemens is not a starting quarterback then the drafting of Ferguson is a bust on the level of D-Rob.
Najy:
I agree that Clemens needs a shot. However, I don’t think its unfair to draft Ryan.
If Ryan and Clemens both end up being the real deal, thats not the worst thing in the world. On the other hand, if Clemens — with more talent around him but especially more protection from the O-Line — flops this year, then the Ryan pick not only would fill a need, you could argue that its a vital pick (we all hope that whether or not Clemens is the answer, that the JETS will be making playoff runs the next few years, which will take them out of the hunt for the top QB prospects in the draft).
Yes, sometimes QB’s are taken in later rounds and wind up being awesome (e.g., Tom Brady), but sometimes — and more often — its the guys everyone thinks have a shot at greatness. The potential for the 6th pick to be a bust exists whether its Ryan, Ghoulston, C. Long, etc.
Once again, if we FINALLY get very good production from a QB (not just efficiency like with Chad), and the cost is that we have to eventually get rid of Kellen or Ryan, I’m not that upset by it.
i wonder if we’re in the mix on lito and might swap some picks for him. could be a truly exciting draft.
i want chris long.
To clarify: I’m not saying I want Ryan at 6 or that its the best idea.
I just see why it could be justified and how it could pay dividends (if everything works out the best possible way, but this caveat exists when talking about any of the potential picks in this draft at 6).
Obvioiusly if Kellen is not the answer then we need another QB.
But what does that tell you about the efficiency of our FO and thier drafting? Can we really afford to use another top pick on the same position from 2 years ago?… Why didnt they just draft Matt Lienart or Jay Cutler? Thats because they were banking on Clemens in terms of value and productivity and that he would be able to eventually become a starter.
Not a very good start for the FO if we need to draft 2 QB’s in 3 years with high picks in the draft. Especially with some of the other mistakes that they have already made.
I agree tho that if Kellen is not the answer, then we need to get another QB next year. Chad is effiecient but not as productive as you would want a qb to be. It can only hurt the confidence of Kellen if they draft another QB and as we already know, young QB’s are about as sensitive as 10 year old girls.
They need to encourage him and show him that they are behind him and believe in his ability 100 percent. If he doesnt get the job done this year, then you draft a top QB next year.
i tend to agree with the assessment that kellen deserves another year.
IF LEINART AND YOUNG HAVEN’T BLOSSOMED YET, why be impatient with the 2nd rounder — esp. one who had no line last year.
that said, if they have the highest grade on matt ryan and believe he’s the next manning, you don’t have the luxury of passing on him.
We’ll be mighty upset with ourselves if Clemens doesn’t pan out as a good/very good NFL QB and we’re left grasping for straws, while Matt Ryan is reaching his potential over the course of the next 3 or so seasons.
On the other hand, I don’t care if QB’s generally have fragile psyches. There are 18 year olds putting their lives on the line for our country, there are people who are firefighters, cops, etc., who deal with more pressure and don’t get 2nd-round-pick money, yet we are afraid to draft Ryan because it means we are telling Kellen to “put up or shut up”.
He is a man in his mid-20’s. Drew Brees responded remarkably well when San Diego drafted his replacement. In fact, when they did so, Brees was clearly already a legit NFL QB, unlike Clemens, who has potential but played (predictably given the talent) quite poorly in his short chance.
Ryan is no Manning, he is not even Brady Quinn.
Because I need a life, I was re-watching the Miami-Jets game from December this past weekend. Granted, it was against a very bad Dolphins team, but I did see some things out of Clemens that I had forgotten about that I really liked. He made more than one shuttle pass with his left hand (brilliantly timed and disguised) and scrambled a bit — in the game, he actually had 14 yards rushing. He also completed a 50+ yarder to McCareins. He just looked competent.
I still wonder if Cotchery had caught that bomb against the Chiefs in the last game, if there isn’t a whole different discussion about Clemens. Or if Cotch had held on vs. Washington or McCareins vs. Baltimore. One play, one play, one play …
Our offense last year was a joke. Hopefully Callahan will have some input. We didn’t use Leon enough, The game plan didn’t change from qb to qb (Why was KC putting the ball up over 30 times in any game?), and there was no adjustments made for poor line play.
Were their strengths and weaknesses considered? How many times can you call the same running play? Should we dip and duck every drive?
If Ryan is ranked highly on their board they should take him, but they should also look at Shottenhiemer. Otherwise we will have a new coach, QB, and system again within 2 years. I want any form of consistency.
Dsmizzel…
I would rather draft McFadden over another QB.. haha
Nothing against Ryan tho, but I just dont think that its likely that the Jets would consider drafting 2 QB’s in 3 years, especially since they havent even given the first one a fair chance to win the QB position.
Unless the FO knows something about Kellen and have given up on him, I doubt they will draft another QB because we have other areas of needs like CB, safety, ILB, OLB, etc…
Do you really think that this is a smoke-screen or that we want to draft Ryan?
There was at least one play in each game that changed our opinion on the team. Fade against the Eagles. The drops R in CT mentioned.
Najy:
I think the FO could get away with a Ryan pick by saying: “We couldn’t find a suitable trade partner” and “Ryan was by far the best player left on our board”.
I’m not giving up on Kellen because he has potential, but I also don’t have enough faith in him that I’d pass on Ryan if we can’t find a trade partner and he is by far the BPA.
its just not logical. at qb, theres a veteran and a young player with upside.
ryan doesnt make sense for the jets right now. if he graded out higher with a ++ arm, that would be one thing. but clemens has intangibles as well. he works hard, doesnt rattle, guys seem to respect him and all that.
i just dont see how ryan is that significant an upgrade over clemens. why tie up all that money in 1 spot and muddle the roster at the most important position? especially in a place like new york. only way ryan is at training camp with the jets is if pennington gets dealt. which is possible, but have to figure unlikely.
mcfadden will be there at 6. and if the jets dont take him, he’ll keep sliding. most likely to get that suzy kolber “so how you feeling interview” at pick 11 as the only guy at the banquet table.
I am not a big fan of Schetnhiemer. I just dont know if he calls some of his dumb plays because we dont have talent on our team and he tries to compensate for it with certain plays? Or is it because he is just over complicating the situation and should stick to the basics.
Plus we were so predictable last year that it became so obvious that 1st down was a guarnteed run play.
The stupid fullback would go in motion to the left and shuffle back to the right and Jones runs to the right. EVERY FREAKIN TIME!!!!
funny, schottenheimer was a genius the year before.
if guys can’t block and receivers drop the ball not a whole lot the OC can do to make up in play calling. you run what you think they have the best shot at executing.
steviek
How many times is Chad Pennington going to split out at QB and how many times is Brad Smith gona line up as a QB and not throw the ball?
How many times are we gona throw the fade in the red zone? What happend to the playaction last year (Chad’s Bread and butter plays?) What happend to the no look play action from Chad Penn? We barely used PA and we had one of the best guys under center to do it..
He was a genius 2 years ago, but you have to earn your pay check from year to year… He even knew that he did a sub par job this year and he was the first person to tell the team that he has to reevaluate himself and his coaching.
DSmizzel..
That scenario should be the only way that we draft Ryan…
I just really don’t believe this Front Office is so short-sighted as to to let old drafts influence this one. The idea that ” we can’t take Ryan – or any other QB – because it will make our drafting of Ferguson and Clemens look like a failure,” just does not seem to match up with the actions and philosophy demonstrated so far.
I think they will do what is best for the team’s future based on actual, current circumstances. I’m not convinced they do, but if they love Ryan they’ll take him in a second. I personally believe they’re not as down on Clemens as some fans and would jump at a trade back with the Ravens or anyone else enamored with Ryan.
Najy,
We didn’t run the play action lst year because we had no Oline and and no running game. The PA doesn’t work if the other team doesn’t respect the run. I agree that we were way too predictable last year, especially with TJones lined up 8 yeards back on 1st down, but I blame lack of viable options more than Shott. When your offense flat out sucks, there’s only so much you can do. I’d like to see Shott vary the calls more, but I really think think it’s dictated by the talent level and not the other way around. The reason that there were so many dink and dunk passes were because the qb had to throw it by 3 seconds or be on his back. I questioned some of those Brad Smith as QB calls too, but I have to wonder if maybe him throwing was an actual option and he just didn’t have time/no one was open.
From what I’ve read about the goal line fade, it’s almost indefensible if executed properly. Now if the QB is pressured and has to rush the throw, it’s a different story. Seems to me they should drill it into the QBs heads that when in doubt on the goal line fade – OVERTHROW it!
Yes and no… I had trouble trying to decipher between horrible play calling and horrible execution… I guess when you are 4 – 12, those to factors have to work hand in hand!!! Its probably a combonation of both.
True, there were certainly bad calls as well. The whole team was overrated after 06 – thus the high expectations – Shott included.
If Ghoulston, Long and DMF are not on the board at #6, and assuming they are unable to trade down, would it be so wrong for the Jets to draft the best CB on the board? I understand that it might be a reach, but having 2 shutdown corners could really do a lot for the future of this team.
I just don’t understand the sense in drafting a QB this year. None of the QB’s are highly touted. I think the Jets have the luxury of waiting next year for a QB if, and only if, Clemens does not work out. Clemens (and for that matter Pennington) both deserve a chance to play with this revamped o-line.
Zen–Good points and I agree. McKelvin at 6 would be fine. He’s also a great return man, and possibly Miller could be on the way out. And, there will always be another Matt Ryan next year and every year. He’s not a Peyton Manning or Elway that no team can pass on.
Drob isn’t a bust by any reasonable use of the term. Charles Rogers? Now that’s a bust. Robertson has been a starter since his rookie season, and a decent one at that.
Agree that Drob is not a bust. Expectations play such a big role in who is a bust and who isn’t, but Drob has played from adequate to good and that is not a bust.
Hard for me to imagine a corner at #6. I think someone will be there that the Jes need more, then take a corner in 2nd round. Of course, best case scenario is to trade down and take the corner where they should be drafted and pay them accordingly.
I think that this is all part of Tangini’s plan. As much of dedicated Jets fans that we are, we still have no idea what we are gona do come Saturday. Anything could happen and that is whats soo exciting.
At the same time, that is what Tangini strives for is to keep everyone guessing, including the Pats, Chiefs, Ravens, Panthers, etc… no has a clue what we plan on doing.
Lets hope they have a clue about what they are doing.
hahahahahaha…… WOW!!
I don’t think D-Rob is a bust either. At the same time, he hasn’t been the player the Jets were hoping he would be when they traded up to draft him.
This Saturday is truly going to be interesting.
Dsmizzle: I’m affraid alot of those running plays were supposed to be to the left but since the left side was so bad they cut it back to the right every time! Brad at QB was at least fun to watch and even Viny lined up in the slot a couple of times. He was even open too! I cant really complain about the Fade route in the Red zone figuring we didn’t make it there much last season. There were a lot of drive that jones carried us all the way down and he came out in the red zone because we couldnt pound it in. Would any one here object to me saying he deserved more ree zone carries than he got?
He did deserve more. When he got them against Cleveland he couldn’t go a short yard tho.
He reminded me of a better faster more talented Barlow… Jones isnt great but he does play with heart and I didnt hear a peep from him about the O-Line or the play calling. Counts right?
I know this goes way back in the posts, but I agree with dsmizzle that we shouldn’t be in the six slot any more and if we can get Ryan, we should. Not over anybody else rated higher, but BPA. It’s been shown that first round QBs are a better risk than any other round. I’d take my chances and take the hit if it fails. Can’t win ‘em all.
Drafting Matt Ryan at 6 would be a bust of Ryan Leaf proportions. I would rather have the number 1 rated CB/DB McKelvin, Cromartie, Jenkins anyone but Ryan giving up on Clemens after a few starts behind a terrible O-line isn’t fair give this kid a chance dont ruin our offseason progress by drafting this DUD.
No, drafting Matt Ryan with the no. 6 pick as the first QB off the board would not be anything like Ryan Leaf. Leaf was taken no. 2, behind Peyton, and he only had 1 year of Div. 1 starting experience (even Kiper mentioned his lack of starting experience as a red flag). He was very much a “workout warrior” who wowed the scouts with his size, athleticism and strong arm. In terms of “intangibles” they are complete opposites. Ryan has risen so far because of how the scouts evaluate his leadership ability and intangibles (nobody would accuse Ryan of being a workout warrior)…the QB with the better intangibles in 1998 was Peyton Manning. Leaf was notorious as a know-it-all who was not coachable, something that didn’t come out with his 1-year of NCAA starting experience. Ryan may be a bust (I doubt it), but he’s nothing like Leaf…it’s just not a similar comparison.
Clemens just had a “few” starts? Here’s his ugly stat line for his 8 starts:
http://www.nfl.com/players/kellenclemens/profile?id=CLE075538
Again, I apologize up front for this, but it’s really hard to imagine anyone who played QB at the Div. 1 level with 30 or more starts doing materially worse in his 2nd NFL season. Yeah, the Jets’ OL was bad. But, KC had pocket problems when he wasn’t under duress. His decisionmaking and pocket poise are just terrible. Match that with his 6-1 height and I believe that the Jets can do better, a lot better. Ryan or Flacco, IMO, will end up with better NFL careers. KC is just not the foundation QB for the Jets. If Mangini thought so, KC would’ve been named the starter. Instead, Mangini is having Chad compete with him and has interviewed all the top QB draft candidates. Is it too early to give up on KC, IMO, that’s a maybe. Because of this doubt (that obviously Mangini has), some more competition for the future franchise QB is a smart move, whether that QB is drafted at 6 or later.
“Mangini is having Chad compete with him.” All we know for certain at this point is that Mangini is SAYING both QB’s will compete to determine the starter. This would also be the absolute right thing to say if the FO was dead set on trading Chad. I’m not convinced of anything, yet.
I’m sure the KC stat line SD99 posted above gives the FO some pause, but they also probably saw things in camp and practice that we haven’t. I imagine the powers that be wouldn’t mind having Ryan or any other top QB prospect in camp but the tough question is, at what price and risk to the overall betterment of the team, considering cap-limited dollars? Management would have to be over the moon about Ryan to plunge in at six. Maybe they are, maybe they aren’t. I doubt they’ll tip their hand much before Saturday, either way.
Lets all not forget that Clemens kind of looked like a star in the preseason games, going against other pro athletes, with probably no real difference in the skill of the resepective teams’ backups (Clemens was playing with and against 3rd-teamers during most of his snaps).
He was pretty damned good in those games, and based upon his performance in B’more, I was excited. Then he stunk it up in his games once named the starter, but the team’s wheels had fallen so completely off that its hard to completely condemn Clemens.
I still don’t think its a waste to take Ryan if he’s BPA. Whether it is Clemens or Ryan or even Pennington who starts in 2008 and they drafted Ryan on Saturday, if our offense is scoring points and in the top half of the league in scoring, its almost as if we didn’t have other glaring needs in the 1st place. Sure, there’d be room for upgrades, but the team will be scoring, which is the only thing that matters. Don’t much matter how you do it. So if they draft Ryan and Clemens plays and the offense does quite well, just pretend we drafted DMC and Malcolm Kelly in the 2nd round, and they’re the reason we are playing well.
I was simply referring to the type of blunder I didn’t try to link the players Ryan and Leaf are not similar at all but passing on Gholston(who will be a STUD) or Mcfadden who has through the roof potential to draft a moderate college QB would simply be a mistake. However I do think the 2nd round would be nice to pick up another QB Flacco, Brohm etc. the 1st rounder unless the guy is a complete lock should never ever be wasted on a QB number 6 is not the place for a gamble its the place for huge potential and even better skills not an O.K. QB
I wanted to note that every year we have a shot at drafting a franchise QB. Cutler and Lienart went in the 10-15 range and Quinn (who seemed to throw 3 td passes every game and carried ND) went in the 20s.
When considering trades, team needs, and the Jets making gradual improvement we will always have the opportunity.