Audbile: What Do You Think?
Posted on April 27th, 2008 by Bassett
So, now that you’ve had some time to let things sink in, what you do you think? Be sure to use the chat again today, I saw a lot of folks in there, and I will update when I can. Otherwise use this thread as a catchall until I can update …
Filed under: Main Page
Gholston was BPA at 6, and with no takers to trade down I think the FO went down the decision tree as planned. They didn’t panic and reach for anyone else, but rather I’m sure, had this scenario in mind already and executed it the way it was drawn up. Good character. Good upside. Boom or bust pick, but again what draft selction isn’t?
Keller will be our new 3rd down option, and one which I may add we haven’t had since #80. He will fufill the role that Wes Welker has had in NE, and become a pain the butt for those defending him. It’s all about the hands and the YAC. Like most I was not thrilled initially, but after learning more I think we can expect big things from him.
CB, QB, S still to go….
I think you can add WR to that list also
At first I was very disappointed, like several other posters. I have now warmed up to the picks.
The first six played out like my doomsday scenario. I was thrilled that it was a six player draft and we were in the top six, but picking at six we were left with Vernon. I think (hope) Vernon will be a good if not great player for us, but he was the only one of the top six that had little or no trade value. My dream was to trade down and acquire more picks in a deep draft.
So be it. We got the top rush linebacker in the draft. Hopefully, Brady will learn his name well.
Our second pick caught me (and most people) off guard, mostly because we have not discussed this guy as a possibility at all before the draft. With Chris and now Bubba in the fold who thought it was a need?
I have warmed up to this pick as well. I, like most, was hoping for a third WR in the early part of the draft, but a pass catching TE will probably see the field more and create more match up problems. And after seeing his highlight film he looks like a major match up problem for many teams. I think we can now expect a hard line on any contract negotiations with Baker.
I think Tangini over reached for him and he might have been there at #36, but I think they may know something we don’t. If we did not move up the Jints may have had him targeted and wanted to trade Shockey for the Saints second rounder. Our pick may have nixed that trade.
I will miss that early fourth round pick in a draft were we were already short, but I am trusting the FO on this one. Their moves last year have paid off.
I don’t think it is Tangini’s MOs to always move up in desperation as some pundits will say. I think they really wanted to move down, but your position and the availability of trading partners dictates your strategy sometimes.
I don’t think we need 7 or more picks in every draft (although it would be nice for once), but if you only pick four or five and they ALL pay off you will have the greatest track record you could hope for. So far we have done ok with limited picks, but that a lot of eggs in one basket.
I love the Gholston pick (he was my # 1 hope all along), so I was thrilled when he fell to us. The thought of Jenkins clogging the middle, while Pace and Gholston line up almost anywhere on the field is just too much to comprehend.
I like Keller, but I thought we totally reached for him. He probably would have been there when we picked in the 2nd round anyway, so I’m not sure why they felt the need to trade up. Then again, perhaps they had info that led them to believe someone was going to take him. In any case, I still think the secondary and/or a big WR were bigger needs, and would have like to see them address those areas first.
And it’s not like our history of drafting TE’s in the first round is all that glorious (see Mitchell, Johnny; Brady, Kyle; Becht, Anthony).
Keller was not necessarily a reach – as several blogs had him going to the Giants at 31. I think the point you rightly raise on our TE draft history, and the fact that we moved to avoid losing him just shows how high he was on our board. I like that our FO has the stones to pull the switch when they need to – previous regimes would never have made this pick just for fear of getting ripped.
I liked the picks a lot. My only concern is that we have very few picks and very little depth.
I’d like to see some more trades and amass some more players. We still need WR, OL, DL, CB, S.
Hey Bassett -
If you get a chance to talk to any scout types today, I’d be really curious to know where Keller would have been ranked within the group of WR’s that came out this year.
I’m loving these picks. Speed kills and we’ve got it. VG is a guy who was projected in the top 5 before the combine. He’s a guy that has been playing football only a few years and his numbers improved over time in college and improved as his senior season went on. He rose to the occassion in the bigger games against the better teams and against better talent. After his combine blew people away, he still participated in OSU’s pro day and improved on his numbers. Parcells, who knows a thing or two about edge rushers, was dangling him in front of Long to get his deal done. Many mocks had him going at #2 or #4 and I think people put Long ahead of him, only because of his pedigree, but VG is still learning how to play the game. He’s only been playing since his sophomore season in HS and Long has been being taught football since he was in his mothers uterus. Now that everyone has time, go back and look at the film clips on these guys and compare. Long looks great, but only played against one top team all year (VT). VG demonstrates that he can overpower, go around, go inside and close faster and hit harder against better talent on better teams and with a lot less effort. Some compare VG to Merrimen and predict double digit sacks in his rookie year. If he turns out to be close to being that good, our D will be awesome to watch and for years to come. Ellis, Jenkins, Coleman, Harris, Pace, Thomas and Gholston coming at you at one time with Revis shadowing and Kerry Rhodes ball hawkin’….I LOVE IT!!!
I like the move up to get Keller, because he would not have been there at #36. I think Seattle, who had a real need for a TE and a lot of guys thought they would take Keller, may have had a deal cooking with the Giants. After picking up Jackson, they can then fill two real needs by giving the Giants what they were looking for that Jack-Ass (Shockey). The Giants would then take Keller, get a fast play making TE who doesn’t act like a complete idiot all the time and casue distractions and then pick up a number two and maybe a late round pick.
Now we have a TE/H-back who can take a short dump off on a quick out or bench route and turn it up field. We have someone who can finally run a fast seem pattern down the middle and seperate from a ILB, run a TE screen (which I haven’t seen in years around here) and open up the short stuff for center screens and draws for Leon. This pick changes the playbook. No WR in the draft would have given us that ability. He can’t block for $#!&, but we needed someone who can help open up the offense and that is exactly what this kid allows Shotsy do. We also get some someone who can catch something besides a fade in the red-zone. I’m psyched!!!!
Now it will be fun to watch the rest of draft knowing we have filled two key spots. I hope we go ILB, CB and QB for 4, 6 and 7.
Since Keller is a converted WR to TE, and his blocking skills arent very good, then I don’t see why he can’t line up as a slot WR, maybe we drafted him to be a WR? Marcus Colston was a TE at Hofstra and he turned out to be a pretty damn good WR for the Saints.
I for one, am excited as hell about the season. I think we have the makings for a pretty good team (I say this every preseason), but this year is a little different. Our additions in FA addressed the glaring needs, and our additions in the draft (2006 – 2008) added quality players. Yes, there are still some concerns like the other CB spot, right tackle, and QB, but I think we are going places this year. Foe all the talk about the lack of offensive weapons, I think we will have 3 good ones in Leon Washington, Brad Smith, and Dustin Keller, not to mention LC, JC, and T. Jones. In the last couple of years we added some real studs on defense, Rhodes, Revis, Harris, Jenkins, Gholston, and even Coleman.
Yup, I think this year will be special.
From what I’ve read, heard and understand, the Giants were in serious negotiations with the Saints to trade Shockey for 2nd and 5th round picks. The Giants didn’t think it was enough, and broke off talks Friday afternoon. The talks resumed again yesterday at around the 25th pick when the Saints upped the offer to 2nd and 4th round picks, the Giants were going to accept but wait until their pick at 32 to select Keller as a pass catching replacement for Shockey, but the Jets caught wind of it and jumped in front of them to snag Keller for themselves. Nice move!
I like the Gholston pick – there just wasn’t a better alternative, and I trust that Mangini felt he could harness VG’s raw potential and end up with a monster pass-rusher.
At first, I hated the Keller pick. After thinking about it more… I hate it even more. Here’s why:
- Everyone knew the real value of this draft was going to be in the 30-60 range. Why trade up just a few spots and lose a 4th rounder (which we’ve had great success with) instead of seeing who falls to you at 36?
- Keller isn’t a good blocker, so he’s pretty much limited to a slot / H-Back role. So we can hope his upside is Dallas Clark, right? Except that Clark’s college career kills Keller’s. Clark was a first-team All-American and won the Mackey Award. Keller didn’t even make First-Team All-Big Ten, and wasn’t even a finalist for the Mackey. For someone with his credentials to become a top-30 pick screams “workout warrior” to me.
- If we wanted someone to stretch the field so badly, why not take D Thomas or M Kelly? They’re faster than Keller, Kelly is actually even taller, and they both had far, far better production in college than Keller. Look at tape of those two guys and compare it to tape of Keller. Does anyone think we snagged the best pro prospect of the three?
The teams that draft the best – the Pats, Packers, Ravens and Chargers come to mind – don’t get too caught up in perceived need or measurables. The first thing they seem to look for is this: is this guy a great football player? Check out the names who went after #36 – esp in the 49-56 range. Those guys are all better football players than the guy we took at 30. I think sometimes it’s really just that simple.
I would love to see us get Josh Johnson. I know we have Kellen but i think a 4th on an athlete like Johnson to learn the game from Chad and take over in the future would be sweet. (I’m not a fan of Kellen at all)
pound4pound,
Sorry, I have to seriously disagree. It was no accident that D. Thomas and M. Kelly went middle to end of 2nd round. In fact, no WR was choosen in the first round.
I saw mocks that had Keller going to the Packers and Seahawks in the first round, so it was not exactaly a reach. Also see my post above this one for the reason the Jets traded up. Keller will be an awesome weapon for our offense.
Ramble, the fact that some mocks had Keller going at 28 or 30 doesn’t really hurt my case, since a lot of mocks had D Thomas going 11 or 13. You’re right that if we were so locked in on Keller, we had to trade up to be sure to get him. My beef is with Keller being the choice in the first place, given the number of guys who were on the board who were more talented and more accomplished.
Pound,
Let’s hope he turns out to be a stud, and we love him in the end. Go Jets!
Agreed – I may not have loved the pick, but he’s one of ours now, and I’ll be rooting for him as hard as anyone!
Pound/ramble – would you play Kelly or Thomas as an H-back, or 2nd TE… of course not. They’d be on the outside, or maybe the slot – always covered by a DB. They are faster than Keller, but will be covered by faster defensive players. Keller’s advantage comes from the fact that he will be too fast for any LB to handle, and if they other team brings in a DB to cover him, then you run at that DB. I realize that his blocking is poor (vs D-line or LB), but at 240+ lbs he will have 40-50 lbs on any DB his is assigned to block.
Of course I was shocked by the pick – I expected Devin Thomas or Brian Brohm – but this does give the vanilla Jets offense a much needed change of pace. I’m not sure if it was a reach or not — no way of knowing what the FO knew or heard — probably would have preferred they stay at #36 – and then drfit down from there…