Hank Poteat’s Signing Brings Some Questions
The Jets made a move yesterday to re-sign Corner Hank Poteat, the hold-the-fort veteran who started nine games for the Jets in 2007. Poteat had the first two interceptions of his nine year career in 2007, was a free agent who hadn’t seen a lot of interest from other teams since free agency began. It was rumored that Poteat was told by the Jets that they wanted him to return, but that they needed to find the money to do so, so it would take time.
Pushing Dewayne Robertson’s $11.6 million cap figure off the books via trade, the move actually freed $8 million in space for the team. Poteat signed a one year, veteran minimum ($730,000) deal yesterday with a small signing bonus (unknown), so imagine that the deal was around one million in total.
Poteat provides the requisite depth that the team needs at corner going into camp, but the signing doesn’t adequately address one of the team’s holes on the roster, a clear cut second corner to play opposite Darrelle Revis for 2008. Of the players on the team, there’s one thing that is clear … the job is up for grabs.
Here’s a list of who might be in the running for the job:
David Barrett — Known here at TJB by many names, “The RollerCoaster” has seemed to stick the best. Barrett is a widely erratic player, who seems to alternate from master defender to burnt toast in the blink of an eye. Starting Barrett might be a necessary move, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
Justin Miller — Miller has had a rough road with the team, but the player is in his contract year, and it’s time for him to get serious about this game, or get out of the league. A second round draft choice in 2005, Miller made the Pro-Bowl as a Kick Returner in 2006, not as a corner. Miller has played well in the slot, but hasn’t done much to distinguish himself against primary targets. Used as a nickel would be the best option for him until he can prove he’s a better player than that.. Miller has the physical skills, but hasn’t shown the mental toughness fow which Mangini is looking
Drew Coleman — After getting burned badly for a touchdown in the Bears’ game in 2006, not much was seen from Coleman in the regular season. It wasn’t until the Miami game that Coleman re-appeared in the public conciousness, when he intercepted a pass and defensed a pass in the same game. Coleman is a project, but at 5-9, 175 lbs, he’s a short project. Coleman might work into the rotation more this season, but he’s not starter material.
Andre Woolfork — Most likely camp fodder, Woolfork could potentially make the roster, but he was cut by the Pats and was out of football for the bullk 2007 season … could he really be ready to start and/or play corner?
Dwight Lowery — No one can seem to tell me where he lined up at Rookie Camp (Corner or Safety?), but for now let’s assume he’s a corner for sake of argument. Lowery is a guy who struggled in his senior season, but has all the intangibles that Mangini would be looking for … he’s smart, hard-working and talented. He’s also got a talent that we were looking for … a 6-0+ corner … receivers are getting bigger and taller every year. Sliding Lowery into the game to open up against in Miami against Ernest Wilford might not exactly be the right move for him in his rookie year if they feel he’s a legitimiate option for the long-term. The Jets should be somewhat careful to protect him and make sure that he’s good and ready to play before throwing him to the wolves..
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if the jets have the improved pass rush they should this year with the likes of pace, harris, ellis, and of course gholston the secondary will not be an issue… these group of guys can get it done… im hoping miller and coleman step it up and contribute even more go jets
Two reasons why Lowery will be a success at corner or safety.. and he’ll play both.
1) Mangini’s coaching strength is the secondary. If anyone knows talent it him.
2) Mangini loves the cover 2 defense so Lowery will have players covering his back in the outfield. I doubt if he’ll need it more often than not. One or two tenths of a second diff inline speed for a corner is not as big as it’s made out to be. Like Lowery said “I have good football speed.
So rest easy my friends, Mangini LOVES this guy. We have found another gem in the fouth round and our backfield is 90% complete with great talent and huge upside. Comeooooon JETS!!!!
Barrett = the couch (because of his big cushions).
It’s a bit harsh to hold the Chicago play against Drew Coleman when all he did was overpursue and then slip on the wet turf.
Woolfork’s career arc looks remarkably similar to Poteat’s at the same point in his career. Could Woolfork (a player ridiculed as a failed pick and expected to be out of the league soon) actually develop into a decent pro under Mangini, just like Poteat did in identical circumstances. (Remember when we all laughed at the Pats because they had to sign Poteat after suffering so many injuries). Note also that Woolfork has better size and speed than Poteat.
Good point about the improved pass rush helping the secondary. Not enthralled with any of these guys. Barrett will probably be the starter, unless they add a player cut by another team.
Not too happy with the corner situation. Let me ask this? Who’s going to cover the 6′6” James Hardy out of Indiana when we play Buffalo 2 tmes? Not guys who stand 5′10”. if they do, we lose. Plain and simple
Hank – 2/10th sec diff is huge on any fly or go pattern… 1/10th difference is approx 7 1/2 inches every second running… if the QB has 3 seconds to wait on the route, that’s 22.5 inches (almost 2 feet), minus any bump at the line… at 2/10 difference, the WR will have almost 4 feet of separation if the CB can’t jam him at the line…
Was Dyson a pro bowler or an up and coming star for seattle when he came over to the JEts?
I have a feeling the 2nd starting CB will be Poteat for the first half of the season and then the second half Lowery will start. I have no faith in Coleman or Barrett and just dont think Miller will be up to his best abilities after his major knee injury/surgery last year. Don’t know much about Woolfork’s play so he is my wildcard.
Yeah – everybody is focusing on catching NE, meanwhile Buffalo has added Stroud (DT via trade with Jax), drafted McKelvin (probable #1 corner), drafted previously mentioned 6′6″ James “Touchdown” Hardy, and also get back Posluzsky (LB who broke forearm early in rookie season – I think he was an early 2nd round pick)… they are building a solid team up there
On Dave75 point- Lowery is just about 6′ so hopefully we will be ready to start or heavily contribute when facing Buffalo because Revis will probably cover their experienced great WR in Lee Evans. Jets are giong to be in some trouble in the division with Buffalo! Would of loved it if we drafted there first 2 picks if Gholston was Gone and had no chance of going to the Patriots! Mckelvin to be our 2nd CB to sure up our secondary and James Hardy to be out tall fast #1 reciever.
Swift, don’t forget Trent Edwards in Buffalo. He looked good last year and I think he is going to haunt us for years.
I agree with Bent, that Woolfolk may actually have a shot to make the team as a corner.
Revis, Miller, Poteat are basically assured to stay at this point.
If Coleman regresses, and/or doesn’t progress enough, he could become a casualty and I wouldn’t rule out Lowery at Safety- or potentially fitting their roster wise. The versatility of guys, allows to stock up positions. So, at 6-2 Woolfolk definitely has the talent and it is somewhat justified to think Mangini can light a fire in him and bring out the best.
Yep. Agree… and of course Marshawn Lynch at RB ain’t too shabby either…
Dave75, there are NO 6′6 corners in the league, every team will have problems with WRs the size of Hardy and Buress, but there is more than one way to skin a cat (or whatever the saying is). Smaller corners often compensate by having excellent vertical jumping ability and timing and instincts play a big role as well, and then there is always the pass rush to rescue. Will we be beat the occassional fade route to the big guys, sure, but to say we lose because we won’t be able to stop, GULP!, BIG BAD JAMES HARDY seems a bit fatalistic to me at this point. I’d be much more concerned with Lynch pounding it down our throats and Edwards dinking and dunking us to death over the course of a game than I would be with a tall rookie WR that dominated guys in college with much less athletic ability than he will see from the jets and the rest of the NFL.
Swift points well put as well.
Buffalo might be molding into what us Jets fan would like the Green and White to be.
1. Young, talented Qb with strong arm (Edwards)
2. Stud fast deep threat receiver who keeps his mouth shut (Evans)
3. Young RB already showing NFL production (Lynch)
4. DT who appears more in prime and in shape (Stroud)
5. Legitimate pass rusher who has become consistent (Schobel)
6. Solid pair of young CB’s (Mcgee/McKelvin)
7. Tall young receiver that shouldn’t be a project (Hardy)
That on top of a solid Defense with guys like Kelsay, Whitner- Posluszny back from injury and Mitchell signing on.
Their O-line is also one of the more underrated in the league as the left side is as good as you’ll see and the right is as steady as you’ll need.
If you’re looking for this years out of nowhere team, it could be Buffalo. Somewhat similar is almost every aspect as to when the Steelers won it all. Young QB, RB, good mix of WRs, solid O-line, pass rushing D with consistent secondary.
They are dangerous, let’s help Mangini and his crew can whip it into shape and we can strike lightning with this group. J-E-T-S!
I would have to question Mangini’s credentials as a secondary coach. If he was such a great talent evaluater, etc., etc., why would we be in this situation? Maybe Miller or Lowry will step up and solve the problem, but my guess is that we will be scanning the waiver wire pretty closely right up to the start of the season. In defense of Mangini, at CB coaching only goes so far. Guys who don’t have elite athletic ability eventually get exposed.
JV- Part of this situation is related to salary cap and the team’s building prior to Mangini.
He came in and got Revis who appears to be a solid player and should develop into a Ty Law type. Other than that, I would not pin his reputation on the signings of Dyson, Barrett, etc. Those guys were veterans and wanted to play their brand of ball, including those extreme cushions (a joke on 3rd and 4).
He can be judged on Revis, Lowery and to an extent the develop of Miller. Don’t forget he has also quietly developed and built very solid depth at the safety positions with helping Rhodes, and bringing in Elam and Smith who are nice instinctual players.
I’m glad people are annointing James Hardy as the second coming . . . are you serious? He’s tall, we get it. So are Matt Jones, Earnest Wilford, Matt Trannon, Drew Carter and a ton of other medicore receivers. Who the heck knows if this second round selection out of wide receiver U (Indiana, of course) is going to do anything in the NFL.
As per Marcus Stroud, people should pipe down. He is a bigger question mark than Kris Jenkins, and less likely to succeed. Lets review what has happened to Mr. Stroud the past two seasons: missed one half of his team’s games; microfracture surgery that he might or might not ever fully recover from; suspended four games for taking an illegal substance . . . and turns 30 before the start of next season. I think if you ask most people, this was a good deal for JACKSONVILLE, and a big risk for Buffalo to give up a 3rd and 5th and pay Stroud.
Where do people get this stuff? The Bills? Really?
1. Trent Edwards doesn’t have a strong arm, and even if he did, it wouldn’t do him much good, seeing as he is strictly a dink-and-dunk passer at this point. He averaged 6.1 YPA last season. Chad Pennington averaged 6.8 YPA last year. Just for some perspective.
2. Lee Evans was one of the least effective receivers in football last year. He put up a DPAR of 5.1 last year, the same as luminaries like Drew Carter and Derek Hagan. His DVOA of -8.3% was 70th best among receivers. In comparison, Jerricho Cotchery had a DPAR of 22.3 and a DVOA of 11.8%, 27th best among receivers.
3. Marshawn Lynch had the 26th best DPAR among running backs and the 28th best DVOA. Still better than Thomas Jones, but hardly something to write home about.
4. The whole reason Marcus Stroud was available for trade was because he’s been injury-prone and ineffective for the past two seasons. Stroud was playing behind Rob Meier for much of last year, who isn’t exactly a household name. Don’t get too carried away with any of these DTs who switched teams, Jenkins included- when you’re a dominant defensive tackle, you don’t get traded.
5. The Jets had a better pass rush than Buffalo last year. The Jets sacked the quarterback on 6.6% of all attempts. Buffalo sacked the quarterback on 4.7% of all attempts. The raw numbers are close (the Jets still come out ahead 29 to 26), but the Jets defense saw many fewer attempts.
6. No argument about McGee, and we’ll have to see about McKelvin. It should be pointed out that if the Jets wanted him, they could have had him. The Pats had a huge need at cornerback and they elected to trade out rather than take McKelvin and then they passed on him again at ten. Let’s not get too worked up about old Leodis just yet.
7. People talk about James Hardy as if he’s Calvin Johnson because he’s tall. James Hardy isn’t anything close to a polished receiver, and there’s a good reason he went in the second round. He runs bad routes, he doesn’t show much effort, he’s slow running after the catch and he doesn’t respond well to coverage, which is too bad, seeing as he spends a lot of time tightly covered on account of his lack of quickness. He’s a great red zone target, no doubt, but Hardy is the very definition of project if you’re talking about someone who can do more than run to the corner of the end zone and jump. Better receivers than Hardy have struggled for years in the league (Calvin Johnson didn’t exactly light it up last year) because there is a maximum size when it comes to being a receiver, and jumbo guys have a lot of trouble because they can’t actually get open with regularity, forcing them to make catches with corners draped all over them. If you have Larry Fitzgerald’s hands, you can get away with it. If not, you can’t.
Throw in a defense that was the worst in the league at giving up yards per drive (we were right behind them at 31st) and an offensive line that was a worse run blocking unit than ours (3.98 ALY to 4.10), and you’re looking at a team which isn’t actually good at anything and which is mediocre or poor at a lot of things. They look a hell of a lot more like 6-10 in a bottle than they do surprise Super Bowl contenders.
To all you jet fans who continue to find flaws on the jets team. You continue to be pessimistic. Well most of you just follow words and stats by other sports writers where you have to have trust in what Tangini and the front office are doing. I know last year was a setback. It seems most of you on this blog are targeting the secondary. Three weeks ago you were targeting an offensive weapon and the pass rush. Well we have additions to the recieiving corp with Henry and Keller that is just the draft alone. Lets see four months from now in free agency when the season starts. Okay Dave75 you say that James Hardy 6′6 is going to scare us to death when we play buffalo twice a year well I say the pass rush complements the secondary’s ability to cover the receivers. How about three 6′4 linebackers (Thomas, Pace, Gholston) with three 6′4 + linemen and 6′2-3′ Rhodes in the backfield honing in on buffalo’s offense. Besides 6′6 Hardy wouldnt scare the jets unless our pass rush failed us
Every year I hear how great most NFL teams will be. I head last year that Losman didn’t have a ball hit the ground. He ended up on clipboard duty. We all know it gets decided on the field. Our entire team is much improved over last year. Woody, Pace and Jenkins are huge question marks, but they should still be improvements over Clement, Hobson, and D rob. QB is a question mark as is Second CB and punter (Ha), but we will be better. My remaining question marks are O and D coordinators. Callahan should help that tho too. Super bowl contenders? Unlikely. Good enough to beat a Bills team we played close twice last year with a worse team? At least once.
Swift: Your math is correct however, it is somewhat skewed. You must consider two factors in the equation.
A. His great first step and the way he shadows his receiver.
B. His time of 4.52 is at the forty (40) where the best receiving yards per catch is in the range of 16 to 18 yards and remember that Mangini loves to play the cover2 D.
Lowery’s distraction of lack of speed is totally unfair instead of recognizing his great skill set agility, drive, and knowledge of the game will make him an outstanding cornerback.
I agree that the Jets should not only be much much better than last year but the clear #2 in the division and a wild card contender.
As a 22yr season ticket holder, if I’m being honest with myself, I am envious as some certain parts when I look at a team like Buffalo. Say what you want but the Edwards/Lynch backfield is something I’d take yesterday, today, or 2 months from now. It is a young tandem that should only get better. And they have youth and depth at various other positions where maybe we lack a bit.
Now, they don’t have a lot of experienced guys like we do and the one player no other AFC East team has is David Harris and the kid is an absolute stud, we’ve all seen it. He will be much much better this year with the system under his belt and coming in as the starter. He has also positioned himself as the team leader, lofty expectations would have him become the Ray Lewis type on the field and in the locker room.
As far as everything on paper, projections, etc- well folks it is only May, so that’s how conversations are driven. Buffalo looks much improved, could be a surprise but either way- let’s hope the Green and White make it an 08-09 to remember!
If you are worried about the Jets finding someone to cover Hardy, how about the Pats?
Currently atop their depth chart are Jason Webster and Ellis Hobbs, two 5′9 guys and they only have one guy on their bench over 6′ (Sanders) and he might not even make the team.
If this was really a concern, they wouldn’t have drafted a 5′9 and a 5′10 guy.
Height-wise, our secondary is better than fine. Revis at 5′11 is plenty big enough to cover the Mosses and the Owenses of this league and guys like Lowery and Woolfork offer more size still.
Even David Barrett usually fares better against bigger guys because he can stay with them. He has a pretty good record against guys like Andre Johnson and Randy Moss over the years, believe it or not.
I agree w Bent. If Lowery is what we’ve been hearing about and Miller can stay healthy- corners will be fine. Combined that with the safeties and we would have a better than average secondary.
I’m not too sure Barrett is part of the equation any longer though.
A big guy like Hardy is also a big target. Remember Burress’ nickname on the Steelers? Plexi-glass. Let’s see if Hardy can take the hits from guys like Rhodes and Harrison without getting “alligator arms.” To be effective, Hardy has to go over the middle…he doesn’t have the speed to streak down sidelines. To do that in Buffalo on December 28 against the Pats in sub-zero temperature takes heart and courage. Let’s see if Hardy has what it takes before we start putting him in the Pro Bowl.
The Edwards-Lynch combo is nice, but i still have serious faith in Kellen Clemens! The kid has the talent & now he has the offense he needs. Look at the additions. Last year he had a horrible left Guard & a bad Right Tackle. Pause he also was without Coles & had a miserable running game. That = Big Blitzes & no time to throw. Now he has Faneca solidifying the LG & Damien Woody? at RT. Even though Woody has only played 4 games at RT, i saw talent & so did Tangini. Then you add Dustin Keller to the mix & there is a passing threat & a running game. Schottenheimer can now use the playbook he always wanted to and let Kellen throw the ball with confidence. I’ll pass on Edwards & take Clemens. He is a tough QB to boot.
As for the defense. With the additions of Jenkins, Pace & Gholston, the run defense & pass rush should be much much better. With that, the time gap for a QB will be much smaller, which in turn creates more turnover oppurtunities. First, i believe Darrelle Revis will put up Pro Bowl numbers this year, & KErry Rhodes will EXPLODE this season & be a nightmare for Defensive Coordinaters. That #2 Corner spot is a big ? & the Free Safety spot is a ? also. As for the FS spot, there is Abram Elam, who I personally find as a solid hitter & having some potential, but I want to see Eric Smith emerge & be a stud like he was at Ohio State. There is also the rookie Lowery, but all of you know him better than i do. Look for Barrett to start at the #2 corner spot, which i actually dont want to see, but it likely will happen. & what is up with TY LAW! is he still a FA? IF he is, get him in here…
FWIW, I really don’t think the second CB is that big an issue. Assuming Revis doesn’t need any help, the no. 2 CB can get safety help. Also, as many here have noted, a better pass rush helps mediocre CBs. I’m fine with Barrett, Poteat or whoever Mangini decides from the roster as the no. 2 guy. It’s not like the Giants had a shut down corner last year or the Colts did the year before. With Revis and an average CB, the Jets will have one of the best CB tandems in the NFL and the best in the AFC East.
To take Bent’s point a little further (what about the Pats), if I’m going to look longinly at anyone in the AFC East’s roster its going to be the Patriots, not the Bills. They are the team that we stay up nights wondering how to conquer, sure they lost some key players, but they’ll probably find some way to replace them effectively like they usually do.
Realistically if we have any hope of contending for a divsion title we would need to sweep the Bills and Dolphins and at least get a split with the Pats. The Tuna’s are still rebuilding and I agree more with Seanmacs assessment of the Bills than swift, Dave75 or Chris. I’m not saying we are a lock for any of this, almost everyone loves their roster this time of year, no meaningful snaps have been played or will be played for some time, but I think with what we’ve done this offseason its at least a possiblity.
Eric – I believe Erik Smith went to Michigan State, not Ohio State.
SD99–Coudn’t agree more. I was surprised during the draft (over)analysis by all of the clamoring for another CB. It would have been nice, but overkill. Improved pass rush is the key, our safties are fine, we have CB depth, hopefully Miler can achieve his potential, and Lowrey has time to learn.
i would start barret and lowery and miller are the nickel guyz becuz cuz im not sure bout miller yet and lowery u should stick him in slot for a while and barret is a good veteran so letr him start 4 a while until someone porves they should start alongside revis
If Barret starts who’s gonna mind the blog?
Sorry I thought you said Bassett.
thanks seanmac. I dont know where this suddent infatuation with the buffalo bills came from. I for one am not the least bit worried about this team and neither should the jets. lets worry about new england, buffalo shouldnt be a concern
Any by the way, Ive been saying this for months before the draft and ill say it again, why is everyone so in love with james hardy? IF hes so good, and hes got this great size then how come no team would draft him in the first round?