Link: Four Downs AFC East Post Draft Edition
Football Outsiders has put up their Four Downs post for the AFC East. TJB commenter Sean McCormick (seanmac) takes a long look at how the AFC East looks coming out of the Draft, and
On the pick of Vernon Gholston, McCormick has this to say.
No player split opinion like the Ohio State pass rushing terror. Several analysts, including our own Michael David Smith, considered Gholston the best prospect in the draft. Others looked at his 37 tackles on the season and his tendency to disappear not just from play-to-play but from game-to-game and labeled Gholston another Mike Mamula, an undeserving player translating a huge combine performance into a big payday. Ohio State’s scheme is built around freeing up the linebackers at the expense of the defensive line (which is why James Laurinaitas will be joining A.J. Hawk as a top five selection next year), and the Jets think that Gholston will have more consistent impact in a scheme that lets him pin his ears back and chase the quarterback.
As I’ve already said, Gholston is like sushi, people love him or hate him. I’m still dissecting some tape from Ohio State’s games last year, and all I’ll say for now is that although Laurunaitas looked really impressive, but I didn’t see him getting double and even triple teamed like his friend did in the games I watched.
17 Responses to Link: Four Downs AFC East Post Draft Edition
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sec108 says:
I don’t care for sushi or gholston, I was on record before the draft as not wanting him, but the way it played out he was really the only option (no McFadden, Long or trade down available) so now he is a Jet. I pray that I was wrong about him and want to see great things of course as any true jet fan would.
I think the criticism of being a workout warrior, and the Mamula comparison are slightly unfair in Ghoslton’s case. The Mamula lesson was don’t draft someone based soley on measurables (40 time, bench, etc), make sure they were productive football players in games as well. Mamula wowed everyone at the combine after an unspectacular career at BC, how is that similiar to Gholston who wowed at the combine after an illustrious, albeit somewhat inconsistent career at Ohio St? Its not.
The main concern with vern is the consistency, its great that he had 3 sacks in the Michigan game, dominating against a top level oppponent and even beating eventual top pick Jake Long for one. Its not so great when he plays Kent St. and barely registers tackles let alone sacks or impact plays. I get that he was double and tripled teamed alot, but guess what, thats going to happen here if you prove one guy can’t handle you, and sure that will create opportunity for others to make plays, but you will still be expected to make some yourself.
Right now the best comparison that comes to mind is John Abraham, and absolute terror when he wanted to be, he could get 3 sacks in 4 plays and then not be heard from the other 58 minutes. I have to say that at this point I would take that, at least he would be someone for teams to have to gameplan around as Abe was when he was healthy (not often enough).
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seanmac says:
sec,
Mike Mamula had 17 sacks his senior year at Boston College, three more than Gholston.
The best comparison with Gholston would probably be the last player to lead the nation in sacks over a two-year period and get drafted in the first round- Bryan Thomas.
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OzJet says:
Gholston was the best player in the draft at number 6 and i am happy we got him , i think he will develop into a fine player . As for being double or triple teamed , nobody should expect a player to have a super game unless he is SUPERMAN but it does free up other players on the line and if thats the case he is going to be a great assert for the JETS . I just cant wait for him to put Brady on his ass GO JETS .
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JoeMustGo says:
I’ll take another John Abraham (hopefully a healthier one) in a heartbeat.
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Fair enough seanmac, I should be scolded for not doing my homework, but does anyone over at football outsiders have an algorithym or formula to convert Mamula’s 17 sacks vs. the Big East in 1995 to compare them to Gholston’s 14 vs. the Big Ten in 2007?
Ouch by the way, on the Bryan Thomas comparison.
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Nikolas says:
Common guys, you think Tangini did not know about Mamula or Brian Thomas? I am sure that when they selected Gholston they had made their womework that he was neither of those two guys. This does not mean that Gholston will be a sure thing, but will definitely be no Mamula or Thomas it could be Gholston!!
However I believe, and this is not due to desire, that this guy is the real thing. I was actualy the first one in the blog to argue for the guy. I liked him in OS because of his potential and a few sacks going along with potential is not bad.
The upside is tremendous and the risk is worth taking. -
18andOne says:
I understand that VG may not have been “consistent”, but it doesn’t seem like it would be through lack of effort. Maybe he was double teamed, or he had coverage responsibilities, or maybe he still has more to learn about the game. However, clearly the man is a beast. You don’t get that huge and fast unless you really work at it, even if you are using PE’s.
Plus give Tangini credit, they have drafted well. Brick may not turn out to be a hall of famer, but he did improve our offensive line play. This shows that they don’t whiff badly on the important picks.
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vbsiena24 says:
“Ohio State’s scheme is built around freeing up the linebackers at the expense of the defensive line (which is why James Laurinaitas will be joining A.J. Hawk as a top five selection next year),”
I’m holding you too that Seanmac. Laurinaitas is the second best ILB in 09 draft behind Rey Maualuga and I don’t see them both going top 10. But we’ll have to let the year play out first.
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18andOne and Nikolas, I do respect Tangini’s draft acumen, I think they have drafted pretty well in their first 2 years, the only real “whiff” so far has been Schlegel, and don’t worry I won’t make any comparison to VG just because they were both linebackers at OSU. It just bothered that he didn’t seem to be a difference maker in some games against lesser opponents, but to be fair its not like i’m breaking down film play by play and isolating on just him, and I’m sure thats what the jet coaches and scouts did before they committed some serious $$$ to him as the 6th overall pick. I even like the fact that he chose 56, it shows a certain confidence I think and I hope he backs it up and lives up to the other all time great 56 that played in this town……
Yep, that’s right, I’m talking about the one and only… LANCE MEHL!!!!
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18andOne- Actually, the fact that Gholston is that big is arguably part of the problem. There is talk about him preferring the weight room to the football field, and then you have to factor in the possibility that he’s taken steroids to get his body into that kind of shape. A third concern is that he is musclebound to the point where he is a little stiff- he looked stiffer than Chris Long in drills even though Long is the bigger player.
There was nowhere else to go with the pick, but Gholston certainly has some red flags. He also has above average intelligence and is early in his development, as he came to football late, so hopefully he will end up maximizing his potential. But strength and speed don’t translate into football strength and football speed without instincts. If they did, Bryan Thomas would be Dwight Freeney.
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Mehl56 says:
Hey sec108,
Nice to see my man get some love and respect!
Thanx
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No problem Mehl56, one of my all time favorite jets right there, just a shame he played in a era when torn acl’s were career killers instead of just surgery and 6-12 months of rehab.
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fight613 says:
Miami considered taking Gholston before they signed Jake Long. If Gholston is such a bust then why was Parcell’s so close to entrusting their franchise into his hands over Chris Long and all the other top prospects. Gholston will be a stud. Ohio state coaches said that one of the main reasons Gholston wasn’t getting sacks in some games was because he was doing more coverage than pass rush.
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jeff i says:
i spoke to a big Ohio State fan this w/e about Gholston. he’s def in the boom or bust camp — thinks Gholston will either be an all pro or nothing. he did however confirm that Gholston got double teamed a lot more than one would expect. despite having one of the top defenses in the country, Ohio State had a cr*ppy defensive line so teams could afford to focus on Gholston.
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jet4lif says:
I personally was never big on VG. But I think its a moot point now. We only had one option at the 6th spot if we were not getting trading offers. All I can do is hope that he turns out half as good as a healthy John Abraham.
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Steve in Philly says:
37 tackles!?? That speaks volumes right there. I know they had him running for the blitz but does that mean he can’t run sideline to sideline?
Gholston was getting double and triple teamed tho? I don’t have the resources to break down tape.