Link: Florio Thinks The Jets Were Desperate
I was fishing around the web for some interesting viewpoints on the Jets free agent acquisitions, and I cam across an interesting piece via Mike Florio of the Sporting News, and of course the well known Pro Football Talk.com. What Florio had to say about the Jets had me thinking some people really don’t know anything.
Though the Patriots’ approach in ‘07 had an overriding sense of precision, the Jets’ offseason moves came off as reckless — almost desperate.
Ha, ha…ha. I can’t quite believe this. I mean, as a first time Jets writer over the last couple of months here at TJB and SB Nation, I’ve gotten a lot of criticism for not really knowing a whole lot. Since then, I think I’ve relatively rebounded. Now, based on my knowledge of the New York Jets, I see no way that signing the free agents this offseason was a desperate plea. This team was simply doing what any other team who has one four games the previous season would do the following offseason: get better.
By the way, did I mention this was a list of teams that didn’t make the playoffs last year that he believes will not make the playoffs again this season? Anyway, that’s really beside the point. The point here is, the Jets were not desperate in signing these players. In fact, they were hungry for some playmakers and some skill position players on defense. I refuse to believe this was an act of desperation. It just doesn’t make any sense.
Florio nailed the rest of the article, though, as he went on to describe the problems that some of the players have had with the front office. Most notably, Pete Kendall last year, Coles and Baker this year. It’s true. But I have one objection here. How much is Chris Baker really worth? Is he a top seven or eight tight end in the NFL? I don’t think so. Now, maybe breaks the top ten but Mike Tannenbaum has a couple of reasons to justify why he’s not pleasing Baker’s money demands. The team now has two tight ends may be able to fill the role of Baker, in Keller and Franks. Also, Baker just isn’t worth it in my opinion, and apparently Tannenbaum’s as well. Baker will report this coming Friday and we won’t be talking about this issue anymore.
But, desperate? Come on Florio, desperate?
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im so tired of seeing articles like this about how we are desparate and this and that….
but i have learned to ignore them and i have realized the games arent played by the writers but instead they are played by the teams on the field…..
so i choose to ignore these things and just wait for the season to start
Desperate – The best O line in football and a much improved defensive front seven. It all starts up front.
The beautiful part of sports is its fan base and people like Florio are there to create conflict. He remind me of the dunce in class that sits behind the little girl with the pig tails and rim glasses only to antagonise her.
Mack, in fairness to this moron, and anyone associated with PFT is a moron, we clearly were desperate. We were so desperate, Tangini identified the best talent for our positions of need and then went out and got them even though in many cases, we had to overpay. Pace, Faneca, and especially Woody did not come cheap. Tony R, Bubba Franks, and the CB were bargains whether or not they make the team. But all fit positions of need and in spite of the signings we drafted OLB (pass rush), CB, TE and signed even more FA CB, FB, RB, etc.).
The question is not whether we were desperate. As you imply, any 4 win team that is not desperate, is run by losers. We were desperate. The question if these signings improved the team or caused us to lose players we needed because of the cap.
We won’t know the answer to the first question, did we improve, until after our fourth game. But unless someone thinks 11 mil for DRobb is reasonable, we do not appear to have been forced to let anyone go.
harlan
In Baker’s defense it is impossible to determine if Baker is a top 10 TE when he is is being asked to play as the 6th o-lineman. He produced top 20 numbers in that role. What is his true potential with this new o-line. This year I think the JETS tight ends may have just as much or more of an impact than our wide outs.
Not desperate! Actually I believe just the opposite. The Jets attacked their glaring weaknesses- the offensive line & defensive line/pass rush. By signing Faneca I think a message was sent-that they are serious about running the ball & protecting the QB; Woody, Bubba Baker, Pace, trading for Kris Jenkins– all point to a team with goals, and precision signings. The draft brought them Gholston whom the Jets HAD to draft him- rumor had it that the Pats wanted him, as soon as the Jets picked him, the Pats traded out….then to add to the passing attack, they traded up 6 places for Kelner-just before the giants, who, were rumored to pick him, & then trade shocky….Sounds like they had a plan – for the first 3 rounds picking Lowery…after that–not quite sure.
Then the Chris Baker situation, the one with the same agent as Kendall, Clearly he did not out produce his contract,- sounds like a solid plan.
If the Jets plan to charge PSL’s for the new stadium–they DO have to win NOW-after all the landlord Giants, just won a Super Bowl…one for the history books!
That, may be the only “desperate” reason- the Jets have up & down years, while the Giants just won their 3rd super bowl & are much more popular then the Jets— In a town with advertising dollar is premium– the Knicks, Nets, Mets, Yankees, Giants, Rangers, Islanders, Devils, companies have a lot to choose from. If you’re going to compete for the “advertsing football dollar” then you’d better provide a winning team. Otherwise given the choice of spending on PSL’s for a Super Bowl winner or a 4-12 team, who, Mr Business owner would you pick? Forget WHO you root for….on which would be money better spent?
I have no problem with characterizing the Jet’s moves as desperate. they were desperate – for decent (at least) blocking, some kind of running game, and the ability to keep their QB’s healthy. However, the idea that moves of “desperation” and moves of “precision” are mutually exclusive is just plain stupid. You can be desperate to improve positions and make precise moves to do so.
My big problem with his comments is the idea that the moves were reckless. How? Where’s the negative? the contracts? There isn’t even going to be a salary cap in a few years.
* also desperate for pass rush/run defense
Confuscious said,
Being desperate and doing something about it is better than being desperate and doing nothing.
just another idiot. as a jet fan iv come to realize that no matter what move we make to better our team we will always face negative criticism. baker is a very good TE that we need because he can both block and catch. when i think of keller i dont think TE because he will be in the slot or w/e creative position we can put him to be a threat. we need a TE who can do both and thats baker
bluedevils
so right you are
Let’s take this a step further. Suppose you have a dam that you are in control of. The dam has major cracks and is leaking. You are “desperate” because if you don’t fill the cracks the dam will burst. You have a big budget to spend. You have two choices: you can plug the cracks with chewing gum and save some of the money for later or you can spend more money to get hydraulic cement. Which choice would you make? If you plug it with chewing gum, the cracks are just going to re-appear. Hydraulic cement will be the better long term fit, even though you have to spend more to get it. IMO this is what Tannenbaum and Mangini did this off season.
“Reckless” spending would be spending money on paint to make the dam look nice, but ignoring the obvious cracks and their implications like Herm & Bradway did.
Which would you rather have?
Baker and Kendall haave the same agent I’m pretty sure, and Kendall reported to camp but didn’t even try hard. I’m still debating if Baker will do the same because of his agent, or he won’t because he’s been a jet his entire career.
Harlan:
Don’t understand your thread. You seem to be on both sides of this issue. You call him a moron but seem to agree with him. What gives?
DESPERATE: WITHOUT CARE FOR DANGER; RECKLESS; RESORT TO LAST EXTREME. Desperate needs demand desperate solutions. If signing free agents to improve your team is a sign of desperation then ALL TEAMS IN ALL SPORTS are guilty of acting in desperation including but not limited to our resident dynasty NE Patriots.
Dudes,
Don’t sweat it. We all know that Tangini made the right moves, anyone with an ounce of football knowledge knows that what we did was identify our most glaring weaknesses and fixed them. Parcells did the same thing when he was HC of the NY Jeys (I love writing it that way). Let me remind you what he did…he brought in Curtis Martin, Kevin Mawye, Pepper Johnson, Brian Cox, Keith Byars, Jumbo Elliott, David Meggett, Steve Atwater, Vinny Testaverde, Ray Lucas, (am I leaving anyone out?). Those were all FA, and does not include the draft picks. Did anyone call him desperate? No, they did not, they called him a genious.
We did not do half of those moves, at least not in this season, but look at the Patriots last year, they realized that WR was a problem, and they addressed it. We just did the same thing. We wil be good this season.
We will be 11-5!
ramble914:
Two words, a-men !!!
such garbage. I agree, if anything i feel it was the opposite of desperate. Desperate would be trying to fill all your teams holes with athletic-yet unproven guys from the draft. If anything it was smart what they did, they know what there getting as opposed to having a bunch of unproven players with little experience trying to start for your team. What options did they have. Do nothing- that would be stupid. Build throught the draft and FA-What the Jets did. I dont see where desperate comes in.
I think this is most indicative of the pressures and the resulting ills of sports journalism. Florio comes up with an idea (every year 6 playoff teams fail to make the postseason the following year…) and he gets to spin it off (which teams won’t replace them, which teams will) into three different columns. That means he has to do a breakdown of twenty-some-odd teams, most of which he has just a passing familiarity, even less so, with less successful teams that didn’t spend a lot of time on MNF or the other national telecasts. You can call it lazy journalism (it is), but his job is to produce content not insight. And with the advent of page hits, his editor knows how many people actually read him, so the desire to stir the pot for the sake of stirring the pot increases. The name of the game is eyeballs and everyone here has now seen it. So we’re all guilty (I’m staring at you Mack) of feeding this beast. Wasting electrons on a guy that doesn’t even know which defense the Jets play is sysiphean to say the least.
Damn if you and Damn if you don’t we were bad last year so your going to have to overpay if your going to get the team better! Florio Take a HIKE!
Florio should stick to practicing law. His “expert” opinion on our Jets is clearly clueless. Desperation to me is when we traded for Lee Suggs, and wisely pulled it back, and then went out and got Kevin Barlow, which wasn’t much better. Those moves wreaked of desparation, but these off-season moves, including the draft and Callahan signing, were calculated and precise. Why Bob Sutton is still around, well…baby steps I guess….
I’ve read Florio for a while, and I don’t think I’ve really ever read him say much positive about the organization. He’s clearly got a heavy bias against the team.
As many have said, when you win four games – you better be desparate. In the Jets case, management has gone to work. Florio obviously has no clue about the Jets. Put all these stupid articles on the bulletin board, go out and kick some booty, and then shove it in their faces.
The Jets weren’t desperate, they were Pro-active, today’s word of the day (pro-active).
Tomorrow’s word is “legs”, help spread the word!
whether we go 0-16 or 16-0 these were logical moves. These guys need something to write bout, so what they do, they write negative stuff about teams that have not won in 39+ years or ever
Florio has some conacts but he knows SHOCKINGLY little about the actual game. I’ve never seen him in person but his picture reminds me of Eddie Munster. Anyway, when he puts in football opinions (e.g., personnel moves) he is usually wrong. His strength is reading the law and interpreting it.
Well, I am awake
I must say that in order for us to ride out on a dream year we must sweep the fins and the bills. The bills especially. If we dont then we are stuck in the group of survivors in the last two weeks of the season. But I dont think we will. WE WILL DOMINATE THOSE HICKS. OH YEAH BABY!!! WE WILL OWN THEM AND RUN AWAY WITH THE AFC EAST
Sorry my apologies
I think I said those words too strong
Ay anyway they hate the jets so why can’t I say something back
In 2005, the Jets replaced Kareem McKenzie, Lamont Jordan and Jason Ferguson with Adrian Jones, Derrick Blaylock and Lance Legree. Thank goodness they didn’t have any cap space otherwise they might have spent some money and been perceived as being desperate!
Who cares what this guy thinks?
To echo Bent’s sentiments: Mike Florio’s opinion matters because …..?
a. ….without it, the Jets won’t be allowed to play in the NFL.
b. ….without it, Jets fans won’t root for their team.
c. ….without it, the Earth will come to a screaming halt on its axis, tearing civilization as we know it from its foundations, hurtling us all into the cold void of space, where our lungs will be yanked inside out by the vacuum and our brains will explode.
d. ….oh wait, he’s just another idiot on the internet (not unlike us).
Bubby Brister gave a really apt description of a desperate move with the Suggs/Barlow gymnastics. In this case, we desperately needed 2 OL, 1 DT and some pass rush. But, its not a desperate move to go get something we desperately need, if you know what I mean. I think the most sensible criticism of this is that we waited 1 season too long to open up the wallet and start signing people, but my main feeling was one of pleasant surprise. It’s not easy to fill all those holes with premium talent in free agency.
To repeat one of the posts above, I immediately went to the dictionary. Desparation is recklesness due to a loss of hope. Florio calls it “reckless bordering on desparation.” So the Jets are more reckless than desparate. Careless or heedless, hasty.
I guess, when there are thirty-two teams to follow it’s pretty easy to pick up phrases like “desparate” or “disgruntled” from pieces you read and simplify anything remotely similar to them. Anyway, you’re only a sports writer and it’s not like it matters.
Yeah, in a certain sense I have to agree with Florio. Damien Woody as our solution at RT? The guy was benched at RT for the Lions last year…why is everyone ignoring this?? Pace is a big question mark also.
Agree with Florio, go right ahead. Woody is a def. upgrade over Clement, he may not be the greatest RT but is certainly an upgrade. Woody was not benched last year he was moved to right tackle and started there for a couple of games. Pace will be replacing the slow footed Hobson and had a career high in sacks last year in his first year in a pro 3-4, so I do not see how he is a big question mark.
Thank you Dan C I’ve been saying this to any one and every one! Woody hasnt started a 16 game season in years due to both injury and being benched plus he’s over 30. I love the move as a depth move but dam! I think the ripped for our moves because of how much we paid not who we signed. Having said that there are two very important points… 1) There might not be a cap in 2010 and 2) The Cap has gone up so fast over the past couple of years it’s difficult to have a consistent market. Look at Urlacher! When he signed his contract it was accurate in terms of his value vs total cap. Now the cap has gone up so much and free agents are making a killing and his contract lost it’s VALUE. I’m not crying for him though… It’s just business.
The reality is I havn’t watched One full game with calvin pace, One full game with Woody, One full game with Jenkins and I doubt most jet fans have. But, I have confidence in this FO and Believe they spent alot of time and effort to make sure they were getting what they wanted.
Last year the only player added to the defense through free agency was coleman and he led the league in tackles for a defensive lineman.
As a Knicks fan I know something about desperate moves and these are the opposite of desperate.
While Woody and Pace may have question-marks they are BOTH NFL starters. I don’t care what anyone says but if you are starting in the NFL theoretically there are only 31 players potentially better than you at your position (I know that is not exactly true as Adriene Clark being a prime example but in the case of Woody and Pace I believe they are clearly in the top 30 in the league).
And if it is any indication, the past 3 draft have not started out with BOOOOOOOOOOOS!!! The fans generally like the FO and the players being added. The only complaint I see that is legitimate, as mentioned above, is the Jets overpaid for the players. Now I’m no “expert” but if the team wins you can still say they overpaid I guess. But I’d rather win and overpay than lose and underpay. Also, nobody knows the interpersonal situation a player may be coming from, and in Woody’s case it’s not like he’s leaving perennial contenders. I think someone may be happier leaving Detroit for NY and play really hard to make it here so he doesn’t have to go to KC or NO next.
Players are people, the Jets are getting good people on top of it. I have watched the interviews of the players, Jenkins, Woody, and others and they are intelligent, thoughtful, dedicated players. They come to the Jets now knowing that they will have to work hard to achieve success and the talk about that as a priority. I don’t expect any of the new players to cause trouble.
It would be desperate to take a head case just because we needed to fill a position. It would be desperate to bring someone in who was suspended by the league or who hasn’t played. And even then people change. The coaching and management must decide if they can help a player that can help them. I don’t think Pace, Woody or Jenkins need their hands held but good coaching can make them much better than they have ever been.
I wouldn’t call the JETS moves desparate. This implies recklessness and lack of thought. The JETS knew their weaknesses and knew they couldn’t fill all of the holes through the draft.so they made calculated moves by targetting the FA players they wanted to fill these weaknesses. Did this cost them more money than if they used the draft. Yes.
But fortunately the JETS had the cap space to make these moves. And with these moves they still have one of the youngest teams in the league. I am encouraged by these moves and I am not discouraged by the brain dead Florio. Actually there is a place for Florio and its with the idiots on NBC news. He’d fit right in.
Oh… ummm… ok?
Besides Randy Moss and Wes Welker, did the patsies really do that great of a job in the 2007 off-season? What garnered this “overriding sense of precision”?
For starters, Adalius Thomas, who recorded 6.5 sacks and 78 tackles, did not play like the $35M (+$20M guaranteed) he was given.
Sammy Morris was average.
Kyle Brady and Donte Stallworth aren’t on the team anymore.
Someone should file a missing persons notice for Kelley Washington.
Also, the precision signings forgot to add depth and patchwork to the emaciated DB and LB positions.
Their 2007 draft also has yet to produce a starter.
It was a good off-season/season for the patsies in ‘07 but to portray them as having some godly, omnipotent player evaluation and acquisition ability is just silly.
And name me one pundit who thought the Giants did a great job in the offseason.
DESPERATE!, of course the JETS are desperate the team hasn’t won a Superbowl since the 60’s and are the laughingstock little brother of the Blue-boys who just won another Superbowl against the JETS arch nemesis if that doesn’t make you feel desperate to improve nothing will as a JETS fan I’m proud of the moves and commend the F.O .for what they’ve done also in regards to Baker he’s good but not at all a top 10 guy if he wont shut his mouth give him the T.O. treatment and get rid of him this team needs chemistry not distractions!
Hey, Bent:
Is there an analog to the Jets in the Premiership? A team that hasn’t won a championship in a generation or two yet manages to avoid relegation?
Are the JETS desparate to win another Super Bowl??? YES
The Jets have been strapped to the contract and cap hits of the Bradshaw era. Noneone else finds it curious that the first year Tannembaum gets to start signing players “his” way, we go out and break the bank. (??)
All of our FA deals are ladden with escalators, clauses, and escape routes to ensure we could test-drive these players without getting stuck with lemons; and we finally had the ability to make such bold manuvres.
All of this Jets/Pats crap is a poor excuse for a story-line during a slow off-season.
In Baker’s defense its hard to be a top 10 TE when you are being asked to be a 6th o-lineman.
greenseed
i agree…look at dallas…j.jones signed t.newman and m.barber to almost $100 million…but yet we dont hear any1 saying they over payed them now do we…no…but like tangini…jerry jones knows theres not gonna be a cap in 2010…which will be the year where the player either recieves most of his money or gets cut with no hit to the team…to my understanding anyway…to me this is smart business knowing what the future is in 2010…just my thoughts…
dakar,
Don’t forget Oakland who paid top-dollar for half-athletes. Unfortunately, the Jets are the Jan Brady’s of the league–and will continue to sit second fiddle until they can win the big beauty pagent. I like what you brought up with the cap era (possibly coming to a close) and thought more GMs with Tanny sized huevoes would have also gone swinging for the fences in FA. If in fact the cap is ending we made a strong push to get the best caliber players possible for the team-needs we had.
-A bolstered OL (and don’t take your eye off of the Olivea situation, just yet)
-Better defined FB, TE, and H-back players on roster.
-A greatly improved run-stop.
-A much improved pass-rush.
I trust in Tanny to have created enough “space” to maintain a comfortable level of fitting talent, on this much improved team.
If signing good free agent players is being desperate, then yes we are.
Jets free agent signing Calvin Pace costs six-years $42 million dollars, Alan Faneca five-years $40 million dollars, Damien Woody five-years $25.5 million dollars, watching the Jets smash the Patriots- Priceless
JoeMustGo:
Good question. It’s a bit difficult to compare because the top teams will be there for a long time because the teams with all the money can simply sign all the best players from the next tier of teams, so that lower tier is never going to get to their level unless there is a salary cap or they get investment so that they can compete financially. Basically, the way the league is set up is stupid.
I think the closest parallel to the Jets would be Tottenham Hotspur (also known as Spurs), which also happens to be my team. This is because they often flatter to deceive and consistently give the fanbase reason to be optimistic, only to crash down. They are also experts at the SOJ patented snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Case in point, two years ago, they were in fourth place all year and looked like they might crack that mythical top four which would have put them into the Champions League and enabled them to compete with the other top teams for the services of the best players in the world and also given them a major cash injection. With two games to go, they could have clinched it, but drew 1-1 to their hated rivals Arsenal, who had scored a late equaliser when their guy fouled a Spurs player blatantly but it wasn’t called. In the final game, all Spurs had to do was beat the far inferior West Ham, but on the morning of the game, the entire squad mysteriously came down with food poisoning and they lost 2-1 to miss out on fourth place, to the hated Arsenal. The following season (last year), the fans were optimistic, but they kept losing or drawing close games, despite dominating the action and ended up sacking the manager. By then, they were already out of contention for 5th.
So, yeah, I’d go with them, but as I said at the start, it’s impossible to compare directly. The structure is more like baseball, but with the lower market teams having no chance whatsoever of winning the league (no Anaheims, Floridas or Arizonas here). For example, Spurs finally got their hands on a world class player in Berbatov and Manchester United will probably sign him this summer, because they can easily afford to and Berbatov won’t stay at Spurs because he wants to play in the Champions League.
Although people moan about how MLB, NFL and NBA are run, they are waaay better than the ridiculous soccer leagues over here.
Nobody has reported who will be in trouble if there ISN’T an uncapped year.
One things for sure, it won’t be the Jets, who appear to be well set up for either eventuality in 2010.