Film Room: Chris Baker Sounds Off
Posted on June 5th, 2008 by Bassett
Some soundbites from Chris Baker at practice today, thanks to SNY. Be sure to watch SNY tonight for more information on today’s training camp.
Filed under: Main Page
Some soundbites from Chris Baker at practice today, thanks to SNY. Be sure to watch SNY tonight for more information on today’s training camp.
Filed under: Main Page
What’s bothering me in this situation is that I haven’t heard what baker wants exactly. Kendal wanted 1mill, what does Backer want? It kind of hard for me to be on one side of the fence or the other with such little detail. If he would be willing to take a 2 year extension that made him the highest paid TE which he should be, then I dont see a problem with that. Were not in bad cap shape… How much does he want???
Somebody punch this guy in the face.
im sure you wouldnt do it if you standing in front of him so your better off asking someone else to do it.
If what he said is true, then all the bloggers on here who said “why is he complaining when they just renegociated his deal” can no longer use that statement in defense of the Jets FO. Maybe I’m too liberal when it comes to the financial side of football but I usually take the players side in these situations.
I also always liked Baker- good blocker with good hands- exactly what you want in a TE. I’m not a fan of Bubba Franks, hasnt looked good in years. Dustin Keller, who isn’t signed yet, is more of a passing threat for this team
Chris Baker is an above average TE. He is an excellent blocker with terrific hands. Whenever they throw to him he makes the play. Unfortunately, they have never had another blocking TE to play along side him, so he’s been mostly relegated to blocking duty. Baker makes an excellent point when he asked how Mangini would feel if he were the third highest paid coach on the team? How would you all feel if your boss hired a guy with spotty experience for the same money you make and brought in some guy right out of college and paid him more than you? Players are human and are fighting for employment just like the rest of us.
Stop siding with the man! You should feel a greater attachment to the players than you do to management. What has Woody Johnson done for you except raise ticket prices year after year and drool over raping you with a PSL. It’s the players who provide entertainment – NOT management.
Are all of you going to continue to defend Tannenbaum when there are twp other players who claim he made promises and didn’t keep them? Remember, Tannenbaum was a cap guru with no player management experience. Why give him the benefit of the doubt?
He shouldn’t be the lowest paid TE on the team. Period. I don’t blame him for what he is doing. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire, and these types of situations seem to be occuring way to often with Jets Management. Can we live without Chris. Yip. Do we want to? No. Why didn’t they take care of this before it became a pissing match? Now nobody wins.
Quick reminder to everyone:
Baker not only signed a contract, the FO moved his signing bonus up a year, so he could collect it early. And now he wants a raise? For what? His whopping 45 catches last year?
Baker is a decent–read: DECENT–TE. That does not mean he deserves a raise.
Also: Where does it end? If we’re just handing out raises to anyone who wants one, maybe we should tear up Faneca’s deal and give him more money? Hey, if someone’s asking for more money, they must deserve it, right? Give me a break.
he’s only the lowest paid tight end because he took his money early. How many employers would let you do that, huh? If you asked your boss for an advance on your next year’s salary, he would laugh his ass off! Plus Baker signed a contract which he agreed too. He only has himself to blame for being dumb. If you were negoitiating with your boss and you told him you would take minimum wage when your worth a lot more then that then its your own fault for being a moron. If you sign a contract honor it, otherwise don’t sign it if you aren’t happy with it.
I agree with Dave. Chris Baker is decent TE, but we all know he’s no Antonio Gates. He had a decent improvement from the season before, but the key word there is “Decent.” I have a good feeling about Dustin Keller. I think he’ll turn out to be the TE the jets have been hoping to land for a long time.
If decent equates to average than I agree that Baker is decent. He was 21st in catches by a TE and 20th in TDs. Clearly average at best. Bassett pointed out that Baker got many of his catches playing as a WR. What does that tell you??? It tells me he can’t get off the line to catch passes. Not good for the great TE he believes he is.
He is being paid the same as Bubba. He just got a bunch of money early last year. And we can’t compare money to rookies because most rookie salaries are out of whack. That is why the owners opted out of their agreement with the players.
When Baker was a FA two years ago, he got zero offers from other teams. Know any other top 10 TEs who got zero offers? He got zero offers because he is average or maybe even below average.
So let’s stop siding with this whiner!
buddha…well said and on the money in every way.
As a side question: Does anyone think Dustin Keller can become a great TE even though he can’t block, but at least can catch the ball.
Great tight ends don’t drop balls like Baker’s killer fumble in the red zone against the Patsies last year. Cost the Jets the game.
More money to Baker/Kendall/etc = less money for everyone else. There is a cap that has to be managed to. Baker should play to his contract and shut up
Baker got no offers when it was time to resign was because of injuries. Baker was 21st in catches and 20th in TDs when he was primarily asked to play as a 6th o-lineman.
Dustin Keller may turn out to be a great player but it won’t be at tight end. Keller was a wide receiver in college and then converted to tight end. The book on Keller is not that he can’t block but that he won’t block.
I agree with Reprocity how can everyone have such strong feelings on either side if we don’t know how much money we are talking about. I say pay Baker so that he is making more than Franks. If he wants to make more than the rookie Keller than he needs to vote on a rookie salary cap.
Good to hear from you – jetchick
I got a good idea lets let Baker go and get nothing in return and watch him turn into a top TE in the right system.
According to Tannenbaum that was not the agreement made with Baker’s last agent. He made it sound like Baker received some bad information from his agent.
I have a feeling the people that feel so strongly in backing management before knowing the facts are probaly going to vote for John McCain so that the common man can get 4 more years shoved up their ass.
Bottom Line
with all the pieces in place the Jets are 11-5 or 12-4
without Baker the Jets are 8-8 or 9-6
Erik can you please ask Baker if he can return the money that was fronted to him for this year, if he doesn’t want to be here? I am sorry to say but this guy has some nerve to act like this. You sign a contract you stick to the contract, that sounds simple to me.
hey pat d i guess you like getting lied to over and over and over again if you like hillary. you cant let the inmates run the assylum if they sign a contract play it out also i found amusing was when he says he helped them (management) out by taking the pay advancement
Brian my bad lol
If Baker DID make this agreement last year to “help the Jets” then they DEFINITELY would’ve put it in his contract saying he will be receiving a bonus the following year.
Guys this is Chris Baker a decent TE at best. This guy is a joke.
Seriously, we know if Baker was/will be around the Jets and Baker will be better off, but when will these professional athletes ever stop bitchin about money. He was the one who signed a contract and is in line with the rest of the leagues average TE, which Baker is. But cmon, the Jets will not lose 3-4 extra games just because he might not be on the team.
Baker had his best year ever and had 400 yds. He has 12 TD’s in 7 years. No great loss. He is not a crushing blocker, either. Ninety percent of the TE’s in the league had more than 400 yds – and he’s a seven year veteran who should be in his prime. If I were him, I would shut up and prove myself. I don’t know what you Baker fans were watching but, it has been a long time since we had a good TE (Mickey Shuler). Management should deal with him right now. If they are going to pay him, do it. If not, tell him so and tell him “Shut up and play or go home”.
baker blows……..next
Cut him now.
http://www.sportsline.com/spin/story/10851162
go there and vote for fireman ed
Does anyone know how much more Baker wants? In the NFL money = respect… sad but true.
yeah lets cut Baker now and watch New England pick him up and show you how good this guy can be.
Swizzle – My point is the Jets will lose about 3 more games if all the pieces the Jets currently have are not there. Be it Baker or another piece. It’s not like the Jets offense is an NFL power house.
repro
i’ve asked the same ? a few times…i dont think any1 other than baker knows what baker wants…
before it seemed every1 thought he deserved a little more money but not a whole lot more…
i think baker is good for the team but i dont think we’ll loose games if he’s not here…i say give him a $800,000 raise…that will bring him up from $1.65 mill. to $2.45 mill a year…that # sounds about right for the effort he puts forth each year…what do you guys think…if he wants more then show him the door…just my thoughts…
before it seemed every1 thought he deserved a little more money but not a whole lot more…now it seems every1 is just tired of his bull****…
Mr. Baker … you freaking signed a contract. Now play ! Tired of these players crying broke after signing and getting all that big money up front. If we give in to him then who next ? I’m happy the FO is standing their ground.
Sorry … next !
yeah, baker’s worth 3 wins … as is gholston … and rhodes is worth 4 to 6 wins … as is revis … and jones … and cotch … and harris … and faneca is worth at least 5 or 7 wins … as is nick … and coles … and brick.
It boggles my mind how much you all care about Woody Johnson’s money!!!
Is he going to use the savings he gets by not “caving in” to Baker and cut the price of tickets to games, or of beers or parking?
Someone brought this up in the other thread (and this one as well). Why — when cap space is not an issue — do you advocate for Woody saving money?
Don’t forget that the most successful (arguably Herm, pathetically might compete with him for the title) JETS coach in recent history, Bill Parcells, brought the JETS back to respectability by overpaying vets a ton of money to “reward” them for past performance. That is absurd.
Meanwhile, Baker has been improving every year, is a very good blocker with great hands, and has been a career-long JET. Oh yeah, and unlike Marvin Jones during the Parcells era, Baker isn’t over the hill.
I just don’t understand why you are about Baker getting more money unless it is somehow going to get into YOUR pocket. I think it will ATTRACT players to the JETS if they scratch backs every now and then for consistent producers when they HAVE THE EXTRA CAP SPACE JUST SITTING THERE!!!
Why would you bring politics into this? don’t get me wrong I’m not a McCain supporter (in fact i voted for Obama) but politics should be kept as far away for sports as possible. like when Clinton asked Bush to boycott the Olympics. the Olympics are a stage for the worlds greatest athletes not some politician trying to score points. Same goes to the senators investigating sports. its convenient that they’re doing this during an election year. These politicians just want more camera time. Get out of sports. stop wasting tax payers money. Do your job. Fix the country’s economy or something important like finding an alternative energy source.
You know what really bothers me about this whole ridiculous soap opera? The fact that all the beat reporters ran with this as their only coverage of minicamp and we didn’t really get anything as far as ACTUAL football!!!!
Oooh, one guy is unhappy (which is pretty much the case on every team in the NFL, look around) — guess what? 83 are happy and playing football. Tell us about them, please!
Trade him for a bag of chips and a few of those photos of Brady getting his butt kicked in the Superbowl.
Baker is average at best.
R in CT- Cimini, MVN, and the Jets site have some info. I needed my fix of the position battles. Gholston starts today!!
I love how he said that last year was his best year… the same year we were 4-12… I know there are other factors that lead to us being 4-12, but maybe Chris Baker’s best isn’t that significant.
Trade him for a sack of footballs.
The only way to handle this is to keep him on the team at his current salary. Pete Kendal bitched and got his way, that’s why Baker is doing it now. The FO can’t renegotiate with every player, the team couldn’t function.
Yay Pete. I agree. Everyone has done it since Kendall, except Rhodes. Rhodes got the big money. Coles would have been less of a loss than Kendall but a shame to lose and now it is Baker who it would be nice to keep, but boo hoo if he has to be an example.
I don’t hear Chris Baker mentioning that if it weren’t for the Jets resigning him a few years ago, he might not even be playing football right now. I don’t really remember there being a host of teams lined up to sign him.
Sure – he probably would have landed somehwere and caught on, but you never know…
Why don’t you think about that, Baker, before you start calling management such bad guys…?
If he thought his play would improve so dramatically, then why didn’t he sign a shorter deal?
Once again – you can’t fault management for trying to build the best team possible — and that includes not overpaying your players in order to free up enough salary to sign as many good ones as possible.
I side with the FO 100%. If Baker doesn’t want to play for the contract he signed, then he can walk. Just don’t call the Jets management scumbags, when they have done plenty for your career.
JustAGreenGuy -
Thanks! I saw that Boland at Newsday also has some good info — you have to read in the comments section of his blog to get some of it, though!
Baker’s a mediocre TE with average skills. He’s an average blocker (remember, he’s on the small side for a TE), he has average hands, he has average speed and he’s an average red zone threat (again, he’s only 6-3). I’ve said this before and I will say this again, Baker made over 70% of his catches in WR formations last season. The Jets just spent a gazillion dollars to upgrade the OL and brought in some road-grader FBs. The Jets do not need a blocking TE; they need a TE weapon in those WR formations. That’s why the Jets traded up for Keller, who has better hands and speed than Baker. And, if Bubba is even 80% of pro bowl Bubba, then he’s a significant upgrade over Baker. Why keep an average player who has vowed to be the skunk at the picnic after a 4-12 season? Trade him, cut him, fine him, etc. But, Tannenbaum, don’t let the smell from this skunk linger.
Bubba Franks at his best was never any better than Baker- he simply caught more touchdowns as a result of being an attractive red zone target. And he’s nowhere near 80%- not only is he nowhere near as good as Baker, but he’s at significant risk to not make the final roster. For some reason football fans reflexively side with management over the players, but there’s really no upside to treating Baker this way. The only thing that distinguishes it from the Kendall situation is that the Jets have viable replacements on hand.
Yep Yep on that one Seanmac. If Baker shined in all of the camps maybe they would have given him a raise. Instead he was on the couch watching Idol.
It isn’t management we side with btw. It is that since the advent of free agency players are more like mercenaries. While the FO really want the team to do well because they can find themselve unemployed fast.
Great examples are Rich Kotite was a bum and now he cleans bath rooms at McD’s. Pacman Jones Got someone killed, Jerramy Stevens had key drops in a superbowl/legal troubles, and they not only still have jobs but are praised.
seanmac, isn’t kid of hard to evaluate Bubba because he’s been somewhat injured? Assuming he’s healthy, I see no reason why he wouldn’t be, at least, as good as Baker. And, in his prime, Bubba was just better. You’re way off base.
And, barring injury, Franks is a mortal lock to make the final roster. The Jets need a 6-6 redzone receiving threat.
Sack, I get what you’re saying but wouldnt avg skills mean he’s an avg TE? I think people harp on franks because of where he was drafted in the 1st round and Baker was drafted perfectly in the 3rd. I will disagree and say Baker has the best hands on the team and he’s always been held back due to poor line play and system. No one finds it wierd that Baker isnt saying how much he wants? He’s venting right? Everybody knew Kendall wanted 1mil!
I will say that an agnry TE is one step up from an idiot kicker :)
I’m sure I posted them elsewhere, but here are Baker and Franks’ DVOA numbers since Baker became the starter:
Baker
2003: DPAR 1.5 DVOA 3.1% (just 18 throws, though)
2004: DPAR 5.3 (20th) DVOA 14.1% (14th)
2005: DPAR 9.3 (13th) DVOA 47.5% (1st)
2006: DPAR 9.7 (12th) DVOA 20.6% (5th)
2007: DPAR 12.1 (11th) DVOA 19.8% (10th)
Franks:
2003: DPAR 3.2 (25th) DVOA 1.5% (23rd)
2004: DPAR 11.4 (10th) DVOA 20.1% (8th)
2005: DPAR -1.2 (36th) DVOA -17.8% (37th)
2006: DPAR -6.5 (43rd) DVOA -30.2% (42nd)
2007: DPAR -1.1 (35th) DVOA -18.1% (35th)
Not only has Baker been better, but it hasn’t been close. Franks has been one of the worst tight ends in the league, and was the third best tight end on his own team the last three years. And all this is while Baker has had five different quarterbacks of largely indifferent quality throwing to him while Franks has consistently had a Hall of Fame quarterback. Franks’ two best seasons were back in 2001 and 2002, which is to say his second and third years in the league, he was on a powerful team, and even so, they were comparable to Bakers performance, if perhaps a tad better. And there’s no reason to think we’re getting that kind of player.
Bubba Franks was signed to be Patriots-vintage Kyle Brady, nothing more. He’s big so he may get some looks down on the goal line, but that’s really all he’s bringing to the table.
Reciprocity, what I was trying to say was that there’s no single thing that Baker is great at. Franks, whatever his shortcomings, was always a great redzone threat at 6-6. Nobody will ever say that Gates is anything but a terrible blocker, but that won’t prevent him from making the HOF if he continues his trajectory. Baker’s a solid all-around player. I’m not killing him for that because his attitude and work-ethic kept him on the team. But, now that he could become a clubhouse cancer, I think the negatives outweigh any positives. I also think that there are positions, because of scarcity, where just being average is in itself valuable, like CB, QB or pass-rushing DE. I just don’t think TE is one of those positions because it’s a plentiful and undervalued position. To me, Baker’s playing the flop with pocket 7s.
seanmac, since I’m not an FO devotee, how about these stats. In 9 seasons, Franks has caught 32 TDs; Baker in 7 has caught 12. Franks has made 131 First Down catches, and Baker has made 79. Franks has 256 receptions, Baker has 124. Franks has 2,300 yards and Baker has 1,311. And, I believe matching Franks’ first 7 years against Baker’s, because Franks was injured in 2005, had a terrible 2006 and was beaten out in 2007…his 3 worst years, would be more indicative of their respective strengths. Or, match their 5 best seasons. Also, no matter what FO’s stats say, Franks at 6-6 is a better redzone threat than Baker at 6-3 and one of the primary functions of a pass-catching TE is redzone TD prowess. As for relative strength of QBs, doesn’t that cut both ways? Favre spread the wealth around and the Pack often had 2 TE sets, while Baker has been, for the most part, the no. 3 receiving option for the Jets the last 3 seasons. Gonzo still got his numbers despite the KC QB carousel…it really depends more how the TE is used in the offense. I could go on and on, but Franks at his best was a more dynamic player and a redzone force. Period. Now, I think you’re saying that the Jets won’t be getting Franks at his best, but he’s only 30 and was lightly used last season. IMO, Franks’ ceiling is just higher than Baker’s and if he can approach that ceiling again, he’d be better than Baker. And, I just don’t think a healthy Franks’ numbers would differ materially from Baker’s and I am kind of surprised that you disagree. I mean, isn’t TE one of the most fungible positions in football once you get below the elite?
The jets are always treating thier playes like crap when it comes down to money. I think the Baker is a key part to this team, since they (jets) was making lots of players rich this offseason, i think he should get his also.
A more dynamic player? Hardly. He averaged 9.0 yards per completion on his career to Baker’s 10.6, and his yards after the catch mark is more than a yard less. Franks has more touchdowns because he’s a bigger guy who can run two yards and turn around in the end zone, which is nice, but that’s not exactly the definition of dynamic.
Franks has 94 starts and 114 appearances, while Baker has 37 starts and 83 appearances. Franks was targeted for He’s got better numbers because, frankly, he was a first-round pick who was an every game starter for his first five years, while Baker was a third round pick who spent his first few years stuck behind an incumbent tight end. But in terms of how they produced when they were on the field, there isn’t much to choose from between vintage Bubba Franks and current Chris Baker. Actually, that’s not true- Franks has had 391 balls thrown at him to accumulate his 256 receptions and 2300 yards, while Baker has had 178 balls thrown at him to accumulate his 124 receptions and 1311 yards. Give Baker the same number of looks that Franks has and at his current rate of production, he’d have better numbers than Franks.
Great debate SachDance99 and seanmac.
But seanmac wins.
seanmac, put Franks in the Jets offense and he’s better than Baker. He’s taller, has as good, if not better, hands, and is as fast. Plus, like I said, Franks was the TE in a pure West Coast offense, he wasn’t the 3rd WR option…his patterns would never have been as deep as Baker’s. The problem with focusing on stats alone is that it makes one conclude something that no NFL player personnel would ever conclude: that Baker is and has been the better TE and it’s only receptions that make the difference. Plus, you also sound like Buddy Ryan, who traded Chris Carter because “all he can do is catch the fade in the endzone.” Being a redzone target is part of what makes a TE valuable and TDs are dynamic, right? Plus, maybe Bubba’s stats are skewed because he’s better built for the 2 yard receptions, which is critical for little things like 3rd and short first downs and TDs or 2-point conversions. Bottom line, Bubba was a better TE and in the Jets system will be as good as, if not significantly better than, Baker. And, I think so, Mangini thinks so and Schott thinks so. As Adam Schein reported on Jets Nation, the Jets FO views Baker as the no. 3 TE…which is all I’ve been saying.