Daily Links: Choose Your Top Twelve
Posted on June 10th, 2008 by Bassett
- With the retirement of Strahan, you can rank the top 12 pass rushers of all time … Mr G. makes the cut.
- Brad Smith is a new spokesperson for RCN in New York, along with Justin Tuck.
- Looks like the Jets wanted another player the Jags ended up with as their pounding FB before getting Caulcrick and Valentine. Should they release him, watch for the Jets to pick up the L.I. native.
- David Barrett is selling his modest home in Melville … see what being a bad NFL CB can get you?
- Will tailgating be banned in Toronto for Bills fans? This is the reality of what could have happened with a West Side Stadium.
- Former Panther DT Jason Peter is publishing a book about his high flying ways in the NFL, due out next month.
- Smile Ced! You ain’t got no team! Other than him crying at his draft selection, my favorite part of the Cedric Benson saga was when some girl on the boat said “I called my dad and told him, ‘Call 911. My black friend is getting beaten up by police on Lake Travis,’” … um your “black friend?” And why didn’t you call 911 yourself, my dear?
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This is the reality of what could have happened with a West Side Stadium.
And it would’ve been a small price to pay for the Jets to finally have their own home. Amazing how many Jet fans – including ones passionate enough to start a Jets blog – value eating and drinking in a parking lot over what is best for the Jets franchise. Sad, but that’s why we’re in the situation we’re in. Thanks.
Bernie,
Here’s an excellent book on the topic, that changed my perspective posthumously.
http://www.amazon.com/New-Cathedrals-Politics-Construction-Entertainment/dp/0815631324/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213106558&sr=8-1
I don’t value it over anything, but you can’t deny that for the 70,000+ or whatever the number of people is who go to games week in and out (I’m not so lucky), it’s a vital part (and one of the best parts) of our fanbase … God knows the on-the-field stuff hasn’t been churning out championships over the years …
I would love loved a West Side Stadium and was bitterly disappointed over the loss of it, but it’s over, it’s not happening, at least for the next 20 years.
Having a stadium “all to ourselves” to play 8 games a year is a wasteful endeavor, drains public resources and would have raised ticket prices even more due to the inevitable cost overruns and of maintaining the facilities, especially in a place like NYC where prices for everything are at a premium. Without the Olympics, ticketholders would have paid double whatever the PSLs will end up being in Jersey if there was a West Side Stadium.
Bernie, your anger is misdirected here, it wasn’t a legion of loyal tailgates that shot down the West Side Stadium, it was Cablevision, trying to protect their investment in MSG. They spent millions on commercials, greased a few shady local politicians (I’m looking at you Sheldon Silver) and got the whole thing shot down.
But you shouldn’t really be mad at them so much either, because the real villian in all this is our illustrious owner, Woody Johnson. God knows this team needed a new stadium (its own stadium), more than possibly any other franchise in the league, but why Manhattan, where real estate costs and traffic issues are concerns? Because he was looking for a real estate deal, not just a new home for his team. He wanted something that would be more than just a stadium, a beacon, an event destination in the heart of the greatest city in the world. That the jets would also play a few games a year there was a nice bonus. The logical place for a new stadium was Queens, the teams original home until Leon Hess found the bathrooms at shea unacceptable. I realize we have many fans that reside in NJ, CT or westchester, but the majority of the fan base is still Long Island and NYC. Woody would have found very little opposition here I believe (anyone recall any problems the mets are having with their new stadium?) and we could have had our very own (not shared with the Giants) state of the art stadium in its rightful place. But Woody didn’t want that and when his original scheme inevitably failed he tucked his tail and ran for NJ for the next 99 years. Hate on him before you disparage a group of faithful fans that show up every week regardless of the record to enjoy each others company and some football.
I am a long time season ticket holder and rarely (once in the last 5 years) miss a game, and I LOVE to tailgate, I don’t value it more than the game, but unfornately as jet fan there has been many a sunday where the highlight of the day was the tailgate, it has certainly gotten me through some lean years. Having said all that, I would have gladly left it all behind for a new stadium on the West Side, hopped on the LIRR instead of driving or taking a bus, and forgone the usual tailgate to congregate in a bar with my friends like many do for Ranger and Knicks games.
The real
The city offered the Jets a spot at Flushing Meadows Park to build a stadium. Before that they were offered the Yonkers Raceway site, which I thought would have been perfect. Most of the infrastructure for Yonkers was already in place, there were four major highways that surround the site, and they could have built their training facility in upper Westchester, or Putnam county. The players and staff would have had access to good housing and schools in Westchester. I quess this wasn’t good enough for Woody though.
Mark my words, he will get even with NY for not giving him the Westside stadium by re-naming the team the New Jersey Jets!
The west side stadium was scuttled by Sheldon Silver and cablevision. This sealed our fate to be second fiddle (hopefully we’ll be a better team) for the next 99 years. I renounced my knicks fandom looong ago (thankfully).
Also, am i the only one who thinks D. Barrett is underrated? how many KEY picks did he have for us? he is a little slow for his age and thusly better suited for a nickle-dime package. The guy needs a little credit. His house is nice though. A bargain @ less than a mil.
vinnywasthebest, agree with the first paragraph, but Barrett underrated?? No way, I don’t care if he leads the league in picks, he also leads the league in cushion off the line of scrimmage on big downs. I for one am sick of watching him line up 10 yards deep on 3rd and 5 only to watch the receiver run a short out and pick up the 1st down. If anything all the picks make him over rated.
Eh, im not gonna say youre wrong, sec108, but shouldnt we have better starters to take care of the opposing possession receivers? we need to trade baker + musa smith + a late pick for lito sheppard.
I think the reason everyone is out of the Sheppard market is the contract he is looking for, surely he would be an upgrade over Barrett/Miller, but can we afford it after our off season spending spree? keep in mind we still have to sign our top 4 picks including 2 1st rounders.
I’m not sure I understand your point though, on they one hand you are saying its not Barrett’s fault that he can’t handle possession recievers off the line, but on the other he is under rated?
No i didnt say its not his fault. Barrett can make a play on the ball, he isnt so great at coverage, therefore he should be used as a nickel-dime guy. This is due to his lack of speed. But he can tackle, make a play on the ball, and he can play the run too. For depth i think were chillin with him, poteat and miller.
We need a veteran in prime years though. Lito Sheppard is that kind of guy. We can sign him if we play the numbers right with our 1st rounders. If we cant, we need to focus our attention on Miller, at least he has speed.
Let them change the name to the New Jersey Jets. In fact New York should sue both the Jets and the Giants for trademark infringement. The New York name is important and lucrative. Now with New York fans getting the shaft, and no money going to NY from the Jets or the Giants they should have to change their name to Jersey.
For the record, the site in Flushing where the proposed Jets stadium would have been built is that nest of chop shops and warehouses next to Shea Stadium. All of that property has to be purchased through eminent domain and there’s significant environmental issues. So, I doubt that anything will be built there for a very long time.
I heard the Yonkers Raceway rumor and I always thought the YR site would be perfect for a Stadium, but I never heard that it was a serious contender. I was a supporter of the West Side Stadium; it would’ve developed a critically undeveloped area of mid-town Manhattan, adding thousands of jobs and billions of dollars in tax revenue. With a location next to the Javits Center, New York would’ve been able to attract the kind of huge conventions that go to places with huge indoor stadiums. Not to mention, as the Dolans knew, it would attract every big sporting event, from the Super Bowl to the Final Four. Now, that site is going to be a mixed use area of residential condos and commercial buildings. So, now hedge fund billionaires can buy more luxury apartments and live close to work…and a stadium was frivolous?
I’m with the tailgaters. It’d theoretically be nice to have the JETS playing in New York, but Manhattan was a ridiculous idea.
I’m not a season ticket holder but I tend to get my hands on tix for 1-3 games a year, and when I do, I always have the time of my life tailgating.
By 2015 tickets will be $250/game, and parking will cost $40/game. The only thing that does not change is that the ride to and from the game, and the JETS will be average at best. $1200 for a family of 4! The start of the end for the NFL.
Sack,
It was offered seriously, but the Jets never considered it seriously. Once it was turned down by the Jets, the owners went in another direction.
I too was a supporter of the Westside stadium. I thought it would have been good for NY, but as usual greed and stupidity prevailed.
By the way, I always thought this guy was a so-so sportswriter, but this is the most lame puff-piece ever about how amazing a position the Giants are in despite losing Strahan. Doesn’t seem too objective… Strahan isn’t going to be that easy to replace, what a great player…
http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/giants/ny-sppow105721539jun10,0,5002691.column
Anyone have a guess on what Chicago would offer to get Thomas Jones back?
***Anyone have a guess on what Chicago would offer to get Thomas Jones back?***
A dozen donuts and a “Bag O’ Joe”.
/I apologize, this is me being disgruntled b/c I’m pissed about the handling of the Baker situation.
//With their current situation, they’d probably trade a 3rd rounder for TJ.
D smizz you are aware Chris Baker doesn’t care that you get paid right?
Chris Baker also doesn’t get all excited about my law office, spend money on a DSmizzle jersey, go to bars to watch my Court appearances or even show up and pay big money to watch members of the firm perform their jobs.
He could care less whether or not we are successful. It doesn’t affect him.
Hypothetically, if Baker was a client of the firm, and he thought I was helping him out by being here, but I was going to leave for a place that would pay me a more appropriate salary, then maybe he’d care.
DSmizzle,
Wow you are an atty, you talk about the Jets like my 12 year old.
Don’t you understand that sports is all about the $$$, not all about the fans, we come last. Who cares about C Baker anyway, soon there will be a new #86, and he will want to get paid as well. Just enjoy the team, the players are just pawns.
Yes, it is juvenile and amateurish to want the JETS to simply throw a little money at a problem to make it go away.
In real life, adults act like 12 year olds and 99% of cases settle, even ones without merit, to make problems go away.
/Look it up.
Hey so the Jets just waived Kapinos only to sign another punter. They also cut WR Chris Davis and signed another KR/WR as well as cutting K Meyers.
People settle because of the opportunity costs associated with the justice system.
When you consider the number of law suits in our country that are for the singular purpose of money and not doing what is right, of course they settle. Also the possibility of bad press makes anyone look for the easy fix, especially when preparing to fight a 400lb gorilla of a law firm. Instant gratification
That being said he wouldn’t care if you weren’t his lawyer if he knew he would be given something comparable. Does he seem like the loyal type?
Myers was the place kicker right?
JAGG:
Sounds similar to the reasons why the JETS might settle with Baker and simply move on with life.
Just like when an insurance company settles (the difference being a sealed settlement), they could say “Baker’s situation was different, he deserved a small raise because of X, Y and Z, and we don’t think you do right now”.
If they feel we can live without him we should. Who wants to get bullied by a guy whose butt you could kick? Look at Chad Johnson, he crumbled when push came to shove.
Chris Baker is not a top level TE. It is a shame he no longer wants to be an NY Jet. Too bad, so sad theres the door. If we can get a 3rd, or in a perfect world a 2nd, round pick for him I wont miss him and he will be happy.
Why would anyone give us a 3rd round pick for a TE who’s not top level? He does deserve a raise and he’s our starting TE and should be paid like it. I think they should have an agreement about next year ie no tag, new deal. That’s proactive!
Because I would want a late 1st round pick for Gates, Witten or Clark. Is he our starting TE? I seem to remember it being a new year.
HAHAHAHA put a Tag on Baker. What a waste.
Baker is worth a 6th round pick. He would be better on a better team, but this team does not use the TE. We all think that we are worth more than we are, he is totally replacable, as is 90% of out team. Looking forward to $7 beer, and long traffic lines (at least the wife stays home), and maybe a few home wins!
So you’re saying we would get a 3rd pick for some one who isnt even a starting TE?
Pat Kirwan seems to think he is worth more. He may be dead wrong but he has been involved in the NFL for a long time.
Maybe Kirwan should take him out to dinner and buy him flowers!
Who would you start at TE?
Sheesh! One mans trash is another mans treasure. I went on a projected amount from an NFL insider. The Colts back up TE got 9 mil when he left. I believe trading a TE with a currently low salary cap hit would be an attractive option for at least one GM.
You seem to think he should be a starting TE who says someone else doesn’t. Every position is open this time of year and Chris Baker is and never could be as important as Kendall last year.
I’d have given Kendall the million.
Well I would get in a nice green jump suit, watch every two a day, get Keller work on his blocking, and then realize I want to run a no TE set and take advantage of the 100 backs I have.
I would put Jones, (Musa) Smith and Richardson in the back field and behind the improved line have a 1,500 yard rusher.
If I needed to make adjustments how about Keller in the slot, Pocsiak on the line? 4 wr sets? A clever O plan?
Without Baker our TE position goes from a strength to a weakness. I would have Kendall that Million too because it reflected his market value. IF… Baker is the starting TE does he deserve to be the 3rd highest paid TE?
And Franks at 6-6 saying he’s a good red zone target… you could say the same thing about Becht :(
*given kendall
He is tied for highest with Franks until Keller signs. His average salary is at the same as Bubba. The difference between Franks and Becht is that Franks can catch.
Do you agree losing Baker would turn a strength into a weakness? ie if we traded and franks got hurt??
If thats true Reprocity then the FO should sign every single player to a 1 year deal. Why not? we are going to re-evaluate them every year now based on performance and regardless of the length of their contract so might as well.
They can’t just go giving money away to every player who complains about his contract, if they did we could afford to have about 20 players signed to the active roster. And why should the Jets pay the price for his incompetent former agent lying to him?
If you had an employee that questioned you to the mostly brainless, never relenting NY media immediatly after losing a very close game would you give him a raise?
They made it clear with Kendall that they don’t renegotiate with two years left on your contract. So what the heck makes Chris Baker special? All they did was guarantee the last two years of Coles’ contract. Coles is a work horse, and a captain. They set a precedent. That should be recognized.
I think its a TE a position I love, but one that is expendable. We helped the trenches that is what I care about. We are still rebuilding. I can live without Chris Bakers mouth. We ,minus a god smiling down upon us, are not ready to contend for the superbowl. Let Keller get some real blocking experience or just play around. Baker is an expendable asset.
The market (cap) has been changing quite a bit from year to year and players do have value. Their value can be determined many different ways. Your starting TE should be paid the most because they play the most snaps which puts them at a higher risk. Kendalls situation started because a coupple of guards got signed to huge contracts and he wanted 1mill so his value wouldnt look like… clarke. Baker situation is that 2 other TE who have never played a down for the JETS who are NOT complete TE and wont be asked to do as much will be paid as much as his (Franks) and more than him (Keller). A slight raise would reflect that he is going to be asked more than any other TE.
I agree Baker is an expendable asset… but he wasnt and even with a raise, a cost. we cant go after NE by letting people like Baker go. Even in NE the TE position is a Bonus. More strengths are more strengths and our offence cant let any area go bad.
I’m aware of what the situation is, at this point all of us are. I’m not sure he would be the starter. If they changed the offense to include Keller and lessen the need for a blocking TE then he is a back up. I’d rather have him then Franks if he could have kept his mouth shut.
He is trying to be Kendall 2 but he isn’t Shockey and the Giants won the superbowl without him.
Our D is going to be our bread and butter. I hope it will be at least.
What if last year was just great for Baker like 06 was for B. Thomas?
I think if he played well for one more year he would have gotten extended next year. He is coming off a career year his value is peaked. It’s the best time.
Silver played party politics to nix the stadium because Bloomberg wanted it. With the rest of the country seeing teams get stadium with mostly public funding, it was a travesty that Woody was willing to put up $1.6B and the city/state would not kick in $300MM.
Would love to find a way to keep Bake, but if we do not it will not have the catastrphic effect trading Kendall did for 2007.
Bubba Franks like Becht?!? Franks has 32 TD catches in his 9 year career; Baker has 12 in his 7 year career. Even last season, when Franks only played in 8 games and had only 18 receptions, he still hauled in 3 TD passes, which, you guessed it, is exatly the same Baker had in 15 games and 41 receptions. Plus, Franks is known for great hands, befitting a former 1st rounder from the “U” and a 3-time pro bowler. The knock on Franks is that his attitude took a big hit after his injury, which he didn’t rehab well, and he hasn’t regained his pro bowl form. A classic change of scenery guy. Put Franks in the Jets offense and he gets better overall numbers than Baker because he’s just a better redzone and short yardage threat at 6-6.
Look, I like Baker and he’s improved every year he’s been in the NFL, but he’s just an average TE and may have hit his ceiling. Franks had as many as 9 TDs in a season, Baker’s never had more than 4. The Jets have been terrible in redzone TD percentage during Baker’s tenure. Is it his fault? No, but he’s not helping matters either. Franks can help, he’s a proven redzone weapon. If Bubba is motivated and can approach his pro bowl form, we’ll all quickly forget Baker.
Being a short yardage threat is like being a lay-up specialist in basketball. I’m not a Franks hater and I looked up his stats and his best season was 02 and he had 54rec 442 and 7tds also he’s never started a full 16 game season in his career. He would have never made the probowl in the AFC. Look at his stats
http://www.nfl.com/players/bubbafranks/profile?id=FRA575108
The reason the past 2 seasons were Bakers best was because of Herm not giving him a chance just like he didnt give Cotchery. He sat behind Becht!
Reciprocity, you hit it on the head. People are overvaluing Franks, who never had all that many yards, and was never a Shockey or Gates or Winslow-type receiver. Just a big guy who with good hands who was useful in the red zone.
You are 100% correct that his Pro Bowl appearances are more attributable to the competition rather than having had incredible stats.
It was a very nice pickup, but he isn’t as good as Baker at this point in his career. Additionally, he was added to be the 2nd TE, not the only traditional TE on the roster with experience and proven skills.
TimNy, why woudl the jets want to trade Thomas Jones? >Rushing for 1100 yards behind our pitiful offensive line was more than impressive, Jones is a good runningback and were lucky to have him.
As far as David Barrett, he is underrated in the sense that some of you are acting as if he is terrible, which he is not. Although, I am sick of him giving wrs 10 yard cushions on every passing play, so I cant argue with that criticism of him. But, he is still a veteran cb with a lot of starting experience, he is a great tackler, and he knows how to make a play on the ball. Im sure he would start for several teams in the NFL, especially after seeing the Giants win a sb with subpar corners.
I would much rather see Barrett winning a SB with another team than watching his make tackles on the recievers he was suppose to be covering.
Actually, Franks was signed as insurance for Baker if he continued to complain about his contract. As Adam Schein said on “Jets Nation” the Jets’ FO views Baker as their no. 3 TE. Also, Franks was hampered by the offense in Green Bay (not many receptions in the GB/Favre WR-centric offense), but he was a productive redzone target. From 2001-2004, he had 27 TDs, an average of nearly 7 TDs per season, which is pretty good for any TE not named Gates or Gonzalez. and even last season, when he only had 18 receptions, he had 3 TDs. I would expect that if Franks has 35 or more catches this season, he’ll pair that with 7 TDs, which would be far more productive than Baker has ever been. Let the WRs or Keller have the extra catches, I want the Jets to be better in the redzone, which has been a major weakness for the Jets. Baker at 6-3 just isn’t much of a redzone threat. Franks at 6-6 is much taller than any DB (by 5-8 inches) and taller than most OLBs. Baker just isn’t, he may even be shorter than the average OLB (for instance, Vrabel is 6-4, Thomas 6-2). The Jets have many receiving options, but hardly any redzone threats…Bubba is a bona fide redzone threat and will be great on 3rd down.
Well if the JETS view Baker as their #3 TE, I think its time for a new regime to take over.
Coming off 4-12 and — regardless of contract issues — they think Baker isn’t the best TE on the roster?
Get rid of these clowns. Seriously.
Sending a message is one thing; implying that Keller is a better traditional TE means Tannenbaum is unfit for the job (not to mention his 14-18 career record as GM).