Pennington Responding the ‘Right Way’
Pennington is hosting his football camp in his home state of Tennessee this week before heading back to New York, as QBs are being asked to report on July 19th. When asked about his status by the Knoxville News Sentinel as a starter, Pennington was typically politic.
“It’s part of professional athletics. There are always critics, there are always people asking questions, and you know, Coach Mangini has decided to have a quarterback competition again, so as a professional I can either respond in a negative way or respond in a positive way, and it’s my responsibility to respond the right way. I’m going to go up there with a good attitude and work extremely hard and fight for the starting job because I enjoy playing the game, I enjoy being on the field with my teammates, and that’s my goal.”
We know he and Kellen Clemens are both good men, but may the best QB win …
117 Responses to Pennington Responding the ‘Right Way’
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Fonzie says:
CP has always been a true soldier and a good QB. He has ALL the core values and very well respected by all in the organization. He is NOT going anywhere. I will say it again. Mangini would be very smart by playing all his options and starting Chad. If Mangini doesn’t start him and the Jets are not
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vinnywasthebest says:
like he said let the best man win, but frankly i think hes the guy that can beat the pats. he held his own in foxboro last season and beat them in 2006 (both cases the defense finally stood up).
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……Continued (sorry my computer is screwed up), the Jets are not greatly improved in their division ie. w/l record, standings, p/f p/a and all, the bottom will fall out and create a lot more negativity (pessimism) and a fatal wound to a lot of Jet fans.
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Ferraro41 says:
Pennington has proven in his career that if you give him a running game and keep him relatively upright, he can win in this league. It may not always be as pretty as we would all like, but he can win.
That said, I think it’s better for the organization long term if Clemens wins the job, and so that’s who I’m rooting for.
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DSmizzle says:
Yah, and its important to remember that even if the running game is very good during the regular season, the potential for a defense to shut it down in the playoffs is far greater, meaning that the JETS woule likely have to go into pass-happy mode, something that doesn’t instill confidence in me with respect to Chad against a playoff defense.
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Its very aggrevating when national reporters write about a local team. What did Prisco watch last year that makes him think Clemens blew his chance? Not to take anything away, but put Eli Manning behind that line, and see what happens.
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j says:
Too bad the media skewers everyone in the NY sports scene. Pennington is the true defenition of a professional, we need more like him, and less like some others ( no names needed).
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Everyone is saying all these great things about CP, and I agree…. But does this mean that he is going to win games on Sunday?
Unfortunately, being a nice guy and team player does not translate to wins on Sunday. If it did, CP would be a hall of fame QB.
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Najy,
Football is 11 guys working together, the QB takes the brunt of the blame for a bad team, but when you look at Chad he is the victim of a terrible offense, almost his entire career. The only 2 pro browlers he has played with are Mawae, and Martin, his line has been subpar his entire career, receivers are average at best, and the defense cannot get off of the field.
So with that it is a wonder that he got us within a kick of the superbowl! -
J,
First off, it would have been a kick from going to the AFC Champoinship and we had a very good team that year. If Pennington played better against the Steelers, we would have one that game. But his shoulder was hurt so I will cut him some slack.
Santana Moss made the pro-bowl the year he left the Jets and went to the skins.
Laverneous Coles numbers have dropped since coming back from the Redskinks.
Jerricho Cotchery had his best game as a pro with Kellen as the starter in Baltimore.
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Najy,
You can’t judge CP (or Kellen) but what happened last year. CP has won for us before and probably would again with a better team around him. I can’t think of too many QBs who get more grief with worse teams around them than Chad. If Kellen beats him out, good for him. If not there is no good reason to start KC over Chad. -
billvv says:
A while back Fonzie stated what I think will end up being the way it goes. Tie goes to starting Chad, because, if he fails, there is no going back. It’s Kellens team after that. He can only lose it to Eric Ainge next year.
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ramble914 says:
It’s statements like that that make it hard to root against CP. The guy has always been a consumate professional. It’s too bad that he had such bad luck with the injuries.
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Nick says:
We should ALL be hopeing that KC wins this. That would mean that the younger, stronger armed guy, is also the best QB. Which would mean that we are set at QB for some time. If CP wins we will be looking for a new guy in a few years all over again. We need KC to take this chance and run with it.
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The NYC Parking Expert,
I agree with you. May the best man win.
My original post said that just because Chad is a great speaker and good teammate will not transition to wins on Sunday.
He is a great guy, but does that mean he is going to win games because he is a great guy?
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Najy,
Thanks for the corrections, but what I said was true, if he had a real O line we would not be writing this, (and a D)
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J,
Bottom line… Look for both Qbs to improve dramatically from last year because of an improved O line, improved running game, and an improved Defense…
May the best man win but the tie will go to Kellen because he has much more potential upside and youth then Chad.
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SackDance99 says:
Najy,
I think Mangini already knows who the QB is and my guess is that it’s Chad. If the Jets wanted to alter the offense to get the most out of KC’s skill set, why did they draft Ainge, who is a Chad clone (with a better arm)? To me, it looks like the Jets want long-term a straight drop back QB and aren’t wild about utilizing a QB’s mobility. Chad, when healthy, can run Schott’s offense well and ran it better than anyone here wants to give him credit for with a terrible OL and a bad ankle. KC with his inaccuracy and skittishness could not and more than anything a coach wants his QB to execute the game plan. KC has not shown that he is capable of doing that. But, if it really is an “open competition,” let the best QB win.
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Najy,
Your points are well taken. No, he won’t win any games because he is a great guy, but that is not what most of us who believe that Chad got the shaft last year are saying. If he wins the job and wins games, it will be because with a better team around him he can play to his strengths and not his weaknesses. Last year, he seemed to feel (probably correctly) that if he didn’t put the team on his back the team had no chance to win, hence those uncharacteristic bad decisions and gut-wrenching interceptions. There are precious few QBs out that can carry a team virtually alone and Chad (or Kellen) certainly is not one of them. If I am wrong about Chad and he has simply lost it/gotten old, then Kellen should have no problem winning the job outright. There will be no tie, one or the other will seem the right choice to Mangini.
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Pete57 says:
We have so beaten this topic to death. Let me just give an example of why I do not want Chad at QB: If a team is going to have playoff success, and get to a championship, somewhere in that run the QB is going to need to rifle the ball. For example, on a 3rd or 4th and goal @ the 3 yard line, or to keep a drive alive on a 3rd and long. In a championship run the QB is going to need to make a play like that at least once, probably more. Chad CANNOT do that.
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Hey, you guys are both right…
I miss the old Chad Pennington!! I would love to have him back in my life. It is soo much fun to root for that guy because of the qualities listed here in this post about him. He is a great teammate and a hell of a guy and it makes it so easy to cheer and watch him make plays on 3rd down.
Less than a month until PreSeason!!! GET READY BOYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On a nother note, did anyone watch the Tenesse highlight and Watch D brickashaw get MAN HANDELED in the second half???
It was one on one matchups so it had nothing to do with the Left Guard… Please watch it and let me know what you guys think…
Please, someone comment on this… This is a big problem since he is our 4th overall pick…
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Sean says:
In 2004 when Curtis Martin ran for 1697 yards and won the rushing title, CP played in 13 games and threw 16 TD’s and 9 Int. Those are hardly numbers I would drool over. And I dont want to hear that they are low because CMART was getting the ball all the time. Hasselback threw 22 TD (in 14 games) and had 50 more completions that year and Shaun Alexander ran for one less yard and 4 more TDs than CMART.
He is a great guy and a consumate professional and as such he should do us JETS fans a favor and sit on the bench. It would save me from the cardiac arrest I go into everytime he throws an out pattern (aside the dump offs to a RB) or a pass over 7 yards. His best year was when he replaced Vinny T and he threw 22 TD and 4 Int.
If he starts we will waste the talent of Cotchery, Coles and Keller. Coles and Cotchery (especially) are very good when they have room after they catch the ball. With Chad, that simply does not happen. Keller’s ability is yet to be determined, but presumably, any pass catcher is better with room in front of them. Chad doesnt supply that.
Chad should fork over every bonus he ever got to Coles.
I know Coles is a big fan, but I think that is due to Chad’s heart and dedication far more than it is for his talent.
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Pete57,
DEFENSE wins championships!!!
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Once reason you have a cardiac arrest every time Chad threw an out pattern is because the receivers weren’t very open. One reason that the receivers weren’t very open is because no one respected our running games or pass protection. The reason no one respected our running game or pass protection is that the Oline wouldn’t have started on some college teams. Blame it all on the QB or give the QB too much credit and we’ll still be in this cycle in 5 years. True that Chad has a weak arm by NFL standards. Farve wouldn’t have completed too many of those outs either, because with 2.2 seconds to throw the ball the timing is all off.
May the best QB win
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Reprocity says:
Najy, The first sack in the 2nd half was the TE fault but Bricks guy was comming to. He did get beat bad a coupple of times and allowed way to much pressure. You would think a LT could handle either a speed rusher or a bull rusher but Brick struggles big time with both. He has long arms and is light so he should be quick, so he should excel handling speed rushers but he doesnt. Regardless we better draft 3 tackles and a guard next year!
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It’s interesting about the running game — I don’t think it was a coincidence that it improved in the second half of the season last year when Clemens was QB, mainly because teams couldn’t stack the box because Clemens could beat them deep if they did, whereas Chad couldn’t.
Of course, it could’ve been because of the opponents — although with KC as QB, Jones hung 100 on the Steelers, which very few people have done.
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Reprocity,
The first sack was Posiack, number 40.. But D Brick guy got in also and assisted on the sack..
The second sack was all D brick and the third one, he got bull rushed and lifted off his feet…. Idk, looked really bad for a 4th overall pick…
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Coles and Cotchery cant both be covered. They are still the strength of this team. We go nowhere without them next season. No one in the NFL is open it the QB who puts the ball in the right spot. Case in point Vinny use to throw to a spot and perfected the quick slant and the fade with Keyshawn. Keyshawn always caught passes in traffic and the QB put it in the right spot!
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Najy, What worries me the most is that there is NO back up for Brick. Backer or Franks is screwed this season unless he comes around. Sound like a liability to you?
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*Baker
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reciprocity,
we went nowhere with coles and cotchery, why would we nowhere without them. On this team they are both a bit above average.
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I’m not saying they are more important than the Oline. With an improved line this year we still wouldnt do anything without them. Last year Coles was hurt and Cotchery did get over 1000+ yards. So we didnt really have one and the other had a pretty good season.
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j,
did you happen to see Eli RIFLE the ball in the Superbowl, on that miracle play? The Giants defense was great that day, but without that play the Giants lose. Chad could not have made that throw. I would like to read your response. Thank you.
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The Chad says:
i feel that i need to remind everyone that when we missed out on the AFC championship because of a missed kick, our offense scored only 3 points. 3!
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And before we missed that last kick we took a knee!
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Great posts from R in Ct and the Chad and reprocity (part of the post).
It is not always the QB putting the ball in the right spot and receivers always catching it in traffic. However, if the QB puts the ball in the right spot and gets it to the receiver quickly, strong receivers like Cotch have time to make people miss and shake people. With CP throwing the ball, the LB, DE and corners are all hitting Coles and Cotch before they have the chance to make move.
NYC Parking Expert: in 2004 we had the best running game in the league and still nobody respected the QB.
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Pete57,
Eli has a great arm, but he got very lucky on that play so it would be hard to give him credit for that, I will give him credit for getting out of a sack, that pass should have been picked off, like the one before that Samuel dropped, so that is my response. Strong arms are great, but there is more to being a quarterback besides being able to throw a hard pass (Nagle).
Funny Pete57, last year they were calling for Mannings head, one lucky play and he is the toast of the town!
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Sean, I completely agree. While KC might never be the real deal, Chad will get his receivers mangled. Sure, he’s accurate, but arm strength does make a difference. A big difference. chad-great college qb, does not have the physical tools to make in the nfl. I know montana did’t have a strong arm, but he was able to succeed. I consider Chad’s first year as a starter the only above average year for him. I don’t think he’s ever been able to produce. My answer to the CP/KC “controversy”… run the ball. a lot. and think about drafting another qb next year. i’ll be watching ainge in camp. once again… just hoping for a positive future.
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j,
I’m not talking about a crazy arm like Elway, Marino, Favre… Just an average NFL arm can zip the ball in between defenders when needed. Chad can’t. Why do you think the only pass he throws on the goal line is the fade to the corner? He can’t stick the ball into the recievers gut with defensive players swarming. The BALL TAKES TOO LONG TO GET THERE. It will be batted down.
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And while I admit I was among Eli’s detractors, he had much more than “one lucky play” in the playoffs. The guy was money in every game.
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Pete57,
Try a new offensive coordinator who does not give up on the run in the 2nd qtr, and you might see different plays at the goal line.
No comment on Eli, or do you agree that he was very lucky, not very good.
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I agree with most of the criticisms about Chad, but KC is not a better alternative. He has decisionmaking, pocket poise, defensive recognition and accuracy problems. He may have the arm, but he also may not have the football IQ to be an NFL QB. So, the Jets really don’t have a great choice to make either way. Chad is what he is, an accurate passer that can methodically lead a team down the field, not a strong-armed gunslinger that can hit an open receiver anywhere on the field. I wish we had a better choice, but IMO it’s the invalid against the incompetent and, like in the real world, if the Jets make the proper accommodations, the invalid can, at least, do the job.
R_in_CT, I think if you check, Jones’ stats really didn’t improve under KC and, fwiw, his best game was against the Iggles with Chad at the helm and, overall, the running game may have improved slightly with KC, but I really don’t think KC’s strong arm had anything to do with the Jets’ season high 199 yards rushing against KC in the finale.
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J,
simply, yes or no, do you think Chad can fire a pass, past defenders to a closely guarded receiver?If Eli was lucky in the playoffs last year, then he is the luckiest player in the history of sports. He beat the #1,2 and 3 seeds. Everytime he needed to drive the team down the field he did. That’s not luck, that’s good play.
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Good post SD99. It’s not only about whether Chad can be the Man, but is the alternative any better. There’s a lot of talk about “upside”. That talk will dry up quick if KC doesn’t improve.
As for no one respecting the QB in ’04, he had a bum shoulder and still hit Moss for that long bomb in the playoffs against San Diego.
All this Chad arm stuff aside, what really worries me is that the best QB will win the job, but could still suck.
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Pete57,
Chad can throw a 10 yard in pass, not an out though. His O line sucked.
Eli was very good in the playoffs, but if Favre did not throw a duck the Gints would have gone home from GBay. The defense and the running game carried that team way more than Eli. I remember the 1st half of the Jet /Giant game vintage Eli, constantly inconsistent.
It takes alot of luck to win in the NFL, see the Jets last year, lots of close games lost, the year before lots of close games won. The difference is a bounce of the ball, a penalty, missed tackle etc.
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j, in our case a missed block…
I really think the Kansas City game was a farse and they threw that game. Like I’ve said before, I wish we could buy the game on DVD and start a collection.
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J,
the way you describe it, the QB is not that important, Is that what you believe? If so, there’s nothing wrong with that opinion, but I happen to disagree. It’s very rare when the superbowl team does not have a much above avg QB. Look at all the past winners. Brady, Manning, Elway, Montana, Bradshaw, etc. etc. There are very few exceptions, ie the Ravens, and they had a defense for the ages.My point is that because of Chad’s shortcomings, there will come a point in a championship run that there is no question he will fall short. His shortcomings also include not being able to hit a homerun to make up for a mistake he made, ie throw a pic 6. Namath threw a ton of pics. But on the next drive he could throw a 70 yard bomb for a TD to make up for it, getting right back in the game.
You need at least a “good” QB to win a championship
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Pete, Lets not forget Tampa’s SB team.
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How about: How many teams carry a QB to the SB vs How many QB’s carry a team to the SB?
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KC and Chad are basically a dead heat, both having different issues…but KC is the only one of them that can improve. With more games under his belt KC will gain “football IQ” Chad is NEVER going to get a better arm.
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Reprocity,
sure we can come up with some examples of SB winners that didn’t have great QB’s. I would throw Phil Simms and Jeff Hostetler in that group as well. Most SBs are won by a very good to great QB. Here’s the difference between Chad and other QB’s with shortcomings (Nick already stated it): A QB who sometimes makes poor decisions could have a good run where he makes good decisions (Eli Manning for example). Chad is never going to have a good run of having a strong arm. It’s impossible.
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Football IQ isnt always learned. Sometimes the guy just doesnt have “it”. Im not saying Clemens doesnt have “it”, but waiting another year wont be the end of the world if Chad wins the job outright. Superbowls were won by the likes of Rypen, Hostetler, Simms, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, and Dilfer, so chad can DEFINATLEY win one.
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Vinny,
I would take everyone of those QB’s over Chad. What do you guys think?
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I wouldn’t take Hostetler, Dilfer or Rypen over Chad (assuming that Chad can play at least as well as in ’06). The other guys, yes.
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As long as Brett Favre isn’t our starter we’ll be fine…the last thing we need is to plot these 2 guys against each other and then bring in an outsider to take the place.
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I think its safe to say that if they signed Favre, Chad would be released!
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EastSideKahaluu says:
I think with Pennington we will be good but not great. Simply put, he can pick apart a mediocre defense with the right weapons. However, his passes will still get jumped by elite corners and his gameplay style will never force the defense to cover deep down the field. With Pennington, we’ll get to the playoffs but never be a SB contender. With Clemens this team is boom or bust; great or terrible. If Clemens can play up to his potential, this team will be solidified well into the 2010′s.
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Jeff says:
In football years Chad has played in the league for 6yrs and he is 32!! Remember he started in 2002-03 when Vinny “glorified mediocrity” Testaverde got injured. I will praise Chad because he has done what no other QB in NFL history has done, and that is come back from 2 devastating rotator cuff injuries.
For Chad to succeed you need a great defense and a great run game for him to be effective. We did that in 2004, but we lost by a field goal. In that game we had nothing going and our offense only scored 3 points!
But then again we had Harmful Edwards as our coach.
As I say we just let the best man win.
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pat d says:
Face it guys. A quaterback competition is not a recipe to win a super bowl.
If Favre wants to be a Jet we would foolish not to jump all over that.
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I picked up Cotchery, probably the Jets number 1 receiver, on my fanfasy team in the 10th round. That tells you where our passing game currently is.
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But Chad does = class
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Pete, I’d rather have a 98 Vinny over any of those guys.
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zenlaw says:
I would be shocked if CP gets the starting nod. I think the whole competition thing is a smoke screen, and Mangini already knows that Clemens will be named the starter. My prediction is that Mangini is calling it a competition to keep CP happy and to push Clemens.
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nyckage says:
ill tell u the truth i am routing 4 KC but if CP wins i will support the guy he is good i know dat but hes getting older and and he has a weak arm but he is a classy guy and he wont be like those drama queens tha tget upset if they dont start come opening day nor will KC
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zenlaw
I think you are right about the competition being a smoke screen. But who the starter is I don’t know.
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Mehl56 says:
If Chad should start- we have seen this movie before- we know the ending! We really don’t know KC’s ceiling- he should be given a chance with the new line and a good running game.
Having said that- a decision on a QB needs to be made now! A team needs one guy to look to, get reps together and not have this distraction!!! If he fails then make a change!
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Johnny Styne says:
Chad gets injured — Then what? –
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I heard that Chad put his Long Island house up for sale. What does that tell us?
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18andOne says:
I am not a big fan of either qb, in fact I was hoping they would pick up another qb in the offseason. What I don’t understand is all the talk that Chad is a better game manager then KC. I will not argue that Chad is better at recognizing the blitz and hitting the hot read, but other then that I didn’t see anything that Chad is clearly better at. If Chad was clearly a superior game manager how come he only won one football game for the Jets last season, while KC, the so called skittish, no football IQ qb won 3 football games for the Jets. They both played behind the same o-line, and KC didn’t even get to play with L. Coles and sometimes Cotch. So it isn’t clear to me that Chad is the better game manager.
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Maybe the front office should have a “hush-hush” discreet meeting and workout with Culpepper?
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The Chad,
I think it tells us that he is planning on moving to Northern NJ, like the rest of the team. I understand that there new facility will be ready in September, and the entire organization will move then. I actually question the wisdom of trying to make a move like that during the season.
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I too would take 98 VT over any of those guys but I would also take any one of those guys, except Dilfer and Williams, over CP.
Guys let’s drop this “CP is classy so I’m rooting for him” nonesense.
I am not a fan of TO, Chad Johnson, Joe Horn or any of these guys who are classless on the field, but damn it would be nice to have them on your team.
You think Red Sox fans care about how classless Manny is?
The 86 Mets had a group of guys on the team known as the “Scum Bunch”.
Some of you loved Gastineau and his two-step dance.
I want to win and if that means that the classy guy loses his starting job, so be it. I wouldnt care if KC was an arrogant and dirty player if he brought a ring home.
CP’s arm is shot.
(Culpepper and Favre coming in for workouts?) HAHAHA.
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Reprocity,
I would also take 98 Vinny
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CP should donate the proceeds from the sale of his house to cover the PSLs that will soon be incurred by us loyal season ticket holders.
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Sackdance99,
I am not disagreeing with your criticisms of KC, but I think last year was not a good proving ground. I don’t think any NFL QB could have played effectively on our team last year, much less a first time starter.
I was watching the highlights that Bassett provided in the other post, and KC made some big time throws in a lot of those games. I think he has the potential to be an effective NFL QB. Don’t you think we should hold the criticism until at least after the preseason?
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Jetsman56 says:
Honestly, if you dont think we have our best chance to win this year with pennington at the helm, then your stupid. first of all, i know he has lost a lot of the arm strength (not that he ever had a lot) that he had his first year starting. But i urge you jet fans to go back to that year when we were 2-5 and Chad came in only to go 7-2 with the highest qb rating in the league. not to mention 22 tds to 6 picks. Now, I understand his arm has grown weaker since then, however not by that much. The reason he was so good that year was because of two things, an offensive line and a running game. This year, those 2 things should be back along with a TE that can catch. Although i do like clemens and think he can also do well given the right circumstances, i think chad has to get one more shot with an offensive line like this one. i may be optimistic but i believe he can return to the form of that great season just a few years ago. Chad is a winner given the right circumstances and with our faith as jet fans he will win us games. The man has put eveyrthing on the line for this team and he deserves another shot.
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Jetsman,
C’mon, Chad detractors are stupid? I won’t be hard on you, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you simply used a poor choice of words. Anyone who watched him last year can easily come to the opinion that he is not able to get the job done anymore. I’m in that group, but at the same time I think it’s possible that he could turn it around. Maybe his shoulder is stronger now, maybe his ankle bothered him more than we knew. We will know the truth soon enough. But at least admit he played horribly last year and this season there will be no excuses for whoever is QBing the Jets.
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Pete,
i absolutely agree with you. he certainly did not play well last year 100%. however, if your going to tell me that even a top level quarterback with that offensive line and running game would have done THAT much better, i would have to disagree. this season is most certainly his las to prove he can play and i have a lot of ocnfidence he wont dissapoint. Anyone can agree that a quarterback can only be as good as his line lets him be and we know as jet fans more than anyone that chad needs that extra second or two because he needs to step into his passes to get that extra umph. I have always been a big pennington supporter so i may be a little biast but i wont be able to help my self from being a little dissapointed if hes not our starter at the beginning of the season
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Jetsman, in the end I think we can agree that what we want most is for the Jets to win. I wouldn’t care if you were the QB!
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TOON2388 says:
Let’s sum it up: We love Chad, but he has FREDO arm – it means well, but it’s weak and causes brain to do stupid things to compensate for it
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Sackdance99,
I just heard the Chad interview and he said that he played better in 2007 then 2006….
You always said that you wanted to Chad to go back to his 2006 form…
What are your thoughts on Chad saying that he played better in 07 than 06????
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rsmithline says:
The Chad, on July 9th, 2008 at 8:41 am Said:
“I heard that Chad put his Long Island house up for sale. What does that tell us?”That we play and soon will train in NJ.
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And the buffalo game… And all the games that he played!!
All the ints that Chad threw were unforced man… Its not like he had guys breathing down his neck and he had to get rid of it…
He was standing in the pocket when he threw those INTS….
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Clearly It’s a slow football week….
Not to worry boys, training camp starts soon and we can get to talking about what’s actually going on on the field!
Who is going to make a trip to training camp this year?
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Brian says:
I agree that the QB competition may be a smoke screen, even for the qbs. I think that Tangini has already chosen the starting qb, but is not releasing it to anyone to give them the extra motivation to improve farther into the offseason. I believe that if chad got the nod, he wouldnt let up his work ethic – cause hes chad – but kellen might, who knows. Which may tell you something, that they may have picked kellen to start already but are making him “compete” with chad to help motivate him through training camp.
I have no problem with either qg getting the nod from Tangini, because i believe the best qb will play. however, i must say taht i hope the best qb is KC for the stated reasons that hes younger, and the younger qb has a future, which means the jets have a good future ahead. its time for KC to step up and take the snap because if he hasnt developed by the end of this season i dont know if he’ll ever. last season may have scarred him, its hard developing from a pocket passer when your constantly running for the sideline or are already on the ground. with that, goodluck to both qbs.
Jeff: “Harmful Edwards” haha i love it
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**develop into a pocket passer**
is there a possiblity of our three new highly paid DE/OLB (Pace, Thomas, Gholston) to all be on the field at the same time, given the DE positions may already be filled? I’m not sure if any of those three guys fit the mold for a middle linebacker nexst to Harris, but maybe it could work out?
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Bent says: Maybe for the occasional play here and there, but not full time IMO. Gholston especially is probably not a productive enough tackler for the role. I don’t think we should be playing guys out of position just to get them on the field. Probably better off with just Barton.
However, there are those who think this is a viable idea. The Pats did it to some degree with Vrabel.
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Najy, what was Chad supposed to say? That he stunk in ’07 and hopes he gets back to ’06 form? Or, risk a fine because he talked about his high ankle sprain? And, please, I not only watched Chad, but also I severely criticized him on this site after the Giants and Buffalo games (my debates with seanmac went on for days). The problem is that KC was flat out terrible and, IMO, not capable of being an NFL QB. I have this opinion based upon lots of data that I’ve posted here again and again…I just don’t think he has the right football DNA and the fact that he had exactly one good college season (in which he got injured) doesn’t exactly make me think he has untapped potential. It’s not like he was a Manning, Palmer or Brees in college…he did not have sustained college excellence, period. C’mon, he was, statistically, the worst starting QB in the NFL last season. I’m generally an optimistic guy, but honestly, KC never played a consistently good game last season, he was just awful in the pocket (and the Jets have a classic drop back QB offense) and he got injured, which was a product of both a horrendous LG and his size. So, you can rip Chad all you want, but KC just isn’t a better alternative in my book.
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JustAGreenGuy says:
I just hope that the competition is interesting. As Sack kind of mentioned we have given out all the arguements on both sides.
If KC is going to improve he will have and we can watch it at camp and the preseason. If Chad isn’t a has been we will find that out too. Who cares who starts? I only care if we win. If Chad is our best chance, than maybe Kellen can learn alot this season.
I knew he wasn’t ready last year and he showed it. -
Najy,
Also, if you want to break down some film, look at KC’s redzone pick in the Browns game (at the time I believe the Browns had the worst pass D in the NFL). 3rd and goal, blitz comes from his left and is picked up, but he sees the blitz, panics and throws an egregiously awful redzone pick. Plus, he never looks right, which could’ve set up the slant left to Jericho, instead, he locked on to a double-covered Jericho and never looked off the defense. And, all he had to do was throw the ball away if nobody was open, but a guy with his mobility could’ve done so much more with that play. If he would’ve just looked or started to move right, Baker (who was right in front of him, but KC never saw him) was open or would’ve moved with him and would’ve been even more wide open. Sorry, but an impatient QB who doesn’t locate a TE in the redzone when his hot read is double covered just doesn’t get it. And, that play was just one of dozens of plays where KC was skittish in the pocket even though he did not face serious pressure. If he’s afraid of being hit, QB isn’t a great position for him. So, I guess if you’re saying we should just swap guys because you’d prefer redzone INTs from a younger, untested guy who has never shown that he actually can lead a team to the playoffs, then by all means, let’s start KC over Chad.
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Sack,
And you make these very definitive proclomations after only 8 starts? Behind one of the worst lines in the NFL? Do you really think that is a fair assessment? Well, obviously you do because you did it, but come on! You or anyone else cannot possibly know that KC “is not capable of being an NFL QB”. The guy needs to be given more time and experience, and its going to take at least this season.
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Sack,
I dont disagree with you about Kellen…
But rebutal my arguement by talking about Kellen. I am making observations about Chad and I am putting them out there, not for you to talk about Kellen, but perhaps for you to REEVALUATE you opinion on CHAD…
I dont care about Kellen right now.. My problem is with you stating that Chad should be the Qb. After watching some of the highlights, I remember why i hated him so much last year.
He throws dead fish in the air. JUMP ball after JUMP ball. its disgusting. Its a 50/50 chance everytime that ball floats in the air. Plus the receivers are getting killed.
How many times in the highlight did you see LC and JC get killed because of the CHAD BALL??
Dont defend Chad by talking about Kellen.
Either justify Chad’s passes and decisions or there is no need to reply back and talk about how bad Kellen is.
I agree with you about Kellen, he has a lot of work to do.
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Sack,
Please explain to me the 2nd interception that he threw against the Giants… He threw 3 ints that game but the second one was horrible…. Probably the worst pass he through all season.
Also, 30 seconds left against buffalo and he throws a jump ball on the side line that gets picked off… Stupid pass and stupid play and… JUST TERRIBLE… WHY?????? WHY WOULD HE DO THAT???
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Najy,
I think Chad was injured last season and didn’t have the extra bit of pace that he can eke out of his weak arm to make his throws NFL quality. And, the guy does have a long track record of, generally, good QB play. 2006 Chad was a playoff QB; that’s really all I want with this team because the running game will be vastly improved.
ramble914,
If KC gave me any reason to believe through his play that he had the football IQ to be an NFL starter, I’d reserve judgment. My problem with KC is that on the basis of his college career, his awful first 8 games, and $400K contract, there’s no football reason to just hand over the reins of a $1 billion+ enterprise to him. If the NFL had a developmental league, then he should play there to see if the fundamental problems that he has can be remedied with more experience. But, there isn’t a developmental league and I would hate to see more 50% completion pct, 1-2 TD-INT ratio and sub-70 QB rating play. It’s just too hard to win in the NFL with terrible QB play and, by any measure, KC was terrible. I hope that I’m wrong, but even you would have to admit that most QBs that try to be NFL starters fail and, of the ones that succeed, the overwhelming majority are good, or at least competent, the second they step on the field or begin starting. The odds just aren’t with KC.
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Najy,
For fun, here’s my breakdown of the Giants INTs. Chad’s 2nd INT was a brain fart; he anticipated single coverage and threw an awful pick under duress…a bad play (but he would’ve been sacked, it wasn’t phantom pressure like KC’s redzone INT against the Browns). The 3rd INT was a good idea (the WR was open), but Chad’s throw wasn’t crisp enough and Ross jumped it. Like I said at the time and over and over, if Chad can’t complete the short out, then sayonara. I think Chad had 3 short outs jumped for TDs last season…right? But, IMO, the first pick was the worst, because Madison left his man to jump the short pattern…that’s disrespect for arm strength. Madison’s man would’ve been the deep out on the left side and Madison, who knows Chad from his Miami days, knew the deep out on the opposite side was a decoy. If you were on this site last season, you would’ve seen me ranting about how poor Chad’s play was. But, Chad also tossed some nice passes (the TD to Smith was nice and the deep sideline pass to LC was perfect, as was the catch) and, as seanmac pointed out at the time, the game would’ve been in the bag if the Jets could’ve stopped the run.
If your point is that competent QB play would’ve led to more wins, I completely agree. I just wish the Jets had a better alternative than KC for Chad.
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BTW, ’98 Vinny was how old? 33. Thats a year older than Chad.
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Pete57 says:
Sack,
everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it is so obvious that you are not looking at last seasons QB play fairly.
Chad and Kellen both played poorly but you give Chad every excuse, and Kellen just simply stinks. Where’s a little balance? I actually think Kellen should get more slack because he’s inexperienced. You say that Chad has everything over Kellen except arm strength, so how did that work out for him last year? It would be refreshing if you could just admit that it is in the realm of possibility that Chad is done and Kellen could develop into a decent QB, and that you could be wrong in your asessments.
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Najy,
I don’t defend that Chad made some awful throws last year (as did Kellen), but I wonder if things like a horrible Oline, Chad’s anke sprain and no threat of the running game mean more to the players than they do to us. We tend to look at single plays in an isolated vacuum – the INT here, the floater there. You just did as much in your last posts. I’m not saying that those plays didn’t suck, they did. But when you ask “WHY WOULD HE DO THAT?”, you look for a logical answer like:
* Chad did that because he has the arm of a 10 year old girl (Would Mangini start him if this were the case?)
* Chad is old and has lost his decision making ability (at 32, this is hard to believe and again, would Mangini start him?)
Maybe the truth is that his ankle didn’t allow him to plant properly and while he might not have had a guy draped all over him when he threw that INT, there may have been pressure coming as there had been all day and all year. I was as disgusted by some of those throws as anyone but in retrospect I think that Chad was much more prone to the bad throw after the injury and the lack of an OLine/running game led him to believe he had to make every play for the team to have a chance to win. His margin of error was always small and I think because of the ankle, last year it was tiny. I fault Chad most for playing as if he could plant and throw like usual when he clearly couldn’t. To merely think that his arm was shot reflects unbelievably badly on Mangini – again, he would know more than any of us if his QB couldn’t throw and would he really start him in that case?
If KC were clearly better, he would have been starting earlier. I agree with Sack that KC gave us alot of reasons to worry. Chad did, too. But which is more likely: that a 32 year old guy who has won before as an NFL starter can win again with a good team around him or that the unproven guy (who played as bad as the 32 year old last year) will somehow lead us to the promised land with a good team around him? Both are risky propositions to me.
Many have posted the idea that we know what we get with Chad (10-6 and 1st round playoffs) while we don’t with Kellen (anything is possible). This rings false to me. Who would’ve thought that Eli, Dilfer or Brad Johnson would ever “lead” a team to the Super Bowl? Probably the same amount that think that Kellen or Chad could. My point isn’t that Chad will, but that assuming he won’t/can’t is counterproductive.
Almost any NFL QB that has a good team around him – that plays like a team – could win the SB. Many great QBs couldn’t win it, because of their team’s inconsistencies (think Marino, Kelly, Tarkington, etc).
May the best guy win the job and more importantly may the winner play well and motivate the team to do the same!
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Vinny,
Can’t compare Vinny’s T’s age to other QB’s except mabe Favre. Vinny’s arm is a physical phenomenon. He’ll be able to throw lasers when he’s 50. With Chad’s operations, his arm is much older.
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SackDance99,
Good points.
I would have to argue though that the passes to Brad Smith and LC were both Jump balls that you and I could have made. He through the high up in the air and our receivers made the play. You cant give credit to Chad for that.
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The NYC Parking Expert,
It was disgusting to see Chad make some of the passes through out the year. I am sure everyone here was asking themselves… What the hell is he doing??
To be fair, Chad looked good against New England in the season opener, but taht was about it. He was awful from their on, as was the rest of the team.
Chad gets his rep as an accurate passer with great leadership, timing, and pin point accuracty. He is a master at playaction and can carve up a defense with short passes and he will take his shots when necessary.
He just played sooo much out of character last year that one has to wonder if it was all because of the team around him? How much of that was Chad’s fault? Why did his passes look so weak?
Maybe it was his ankle and maybe it was the lack of help around him. Who knows???… We will soon find out in a month when preseason starts.
Look guys, there is nothing more than I would like to see then number 10 leading us back into the playoffs.
But because of last year, he needs to show me that he still has it and last year’s performance was because of a bad team.
SackDance and NYC Parking… You guys are kidding yourself if you are not skeptical about Chad at this point. One has to wonder how much he has left in the tank.
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While I admit it wasn’t too bright to take Chad’s house sale as anything more than him moving to NJ, it was really wishful thinking that he’ll be traded.
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Pete57,
It is often said that the only objective criteria to judge a performance is through statistics. Now, I’m not a stats guy, but under any measure, KC’s stats were poor last season and Chad’s were materially better. So, am I giving Chad slack or does the statistical comparison do that for me? As for KC’s alleged “inexperience” he came in as a second-year NFL player that had gone through 2 NFL training camps and 2 NFL off-season conditioning and learning programs. Under similar circumstances, a second-round pick named Brett Favre made the Pro Bowl with a team that was 4-12 the year before. Also, as last season progressed, KC’s play regressed. In fact, his best game may have been his first game against the Ravens, which is a huge red flag for me. Hey, it’s just my opinion, but I’m not ranting that “KC sucks.” I’m just pointing out that he has a long, long way to go before he can be considered an adequate NFL QB, and after all the post-Namath years, I’m getting sick and tired of mere adequacy being the Jets’ benchmark for the QB position.
Najy,
I’m not only skeptical about Chad, I want to offer a 2nd round pick to the Pack for Favre and dump Chad. But, as long as Chad or KC is the choice, I’m holding my nose and voting for Chad.
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IF Chad is done why is he on the team.
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You guys crack me up. 108 comments. I thought this subject was dead long ago. Hey Basset could you post a Chris Baker story so we can beat that horse dead again. But in July what else is there.
Hopefully the injury to Chad’s ankle is the reason for last years results. If not I question why he was not cut. But guys Kellen was the worst QB in football last year. I’m supposed to be impressed with 3 wins vs 1.
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I just heard that Favre put in an offer for Chad’s house.
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Najy –
You wrote that “Chad looked good against New England in the season opener…”
Exactly, the game when his ankle got injured.
But, I’m with Sack, I don’t love Chad as a starter, I have big questions about him. But right know based on last year, I question KC a little more.
To step back a bit. I think it’s cool that at the beginning of July – when absolutely nothing football is happening – we have a good debate going on. 100+ posts all pointing out things we have all pointed out 100+ times before.
Either we are awesome fans or complete idiots. Most likely both, I guess.
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Pete 57,
Youre 100% correct. Vinny can and will probably throw a lazer ball @ 50. Hes 44 now? too bad, maybe we could have signed him again. Chad is 32 with a limp arm. But i do strngly believe that if he has a good o-line, and he corrects some mechanics, he can succeed purely based on good decisions. As for Clemens, he will also need a good o-line so hes not running for his dear life and throwing those darts into other teams’ corners’ hands.
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The NYC Parking Expert,
We are Jets Fans… Thats what we do!!!
We have sucked for sooo long that we have more to talk about in the offseason then we do during the season.
Last time I was this excited about the JEts was in 2004 when we made the playoffs.
I think the reason we all keep having the same discussion is because we all know how improtant the Qb position is. All the fans here feel that the Jets are competitive in every other position except for the QB because we dont know who it is yet.
Everyone here is just anxious man. It is a good sign and lets hope that they dont let us down.
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vinnywasthebest,
Every Qb needs a good o-line. They cant throw the ball if they are on their back.
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Lafflin says:
So much pointing out the obvious going on here.
It seems that there are some of us who need some perspective so let me help.
1- Only an idiot would consider signing Farve. It’s simply not happening. Besides, he’s the most over rated QB of all time, even more so than Jim kelly. Having said that, I love the guy.
2- Clemens wasn’t just bad, he was terrible. I don’t ever remember a professional quarterback who could miss a target so bad. I’ll give him a break on his tunnel vision because the of the pressure, but I simply don’t believe accuracy problems of that magnitude get corrected.
3- Aside from KC just being terrible, there is other reasons that Pen will win the job (assuming he hasn’t already), Not the least is that he is a natural leader. Leadership is an ability that while it can be developed, it can not be learned. Chad has it, KC doesn’t.
4- We will be a “ground and pound” team this year, we are not looking for a QB that will win us games, we’re looking for a QB that won’t loose us games. Another advantage that goes to Chad.
I really don’t even believe that this really is a QB competition, I think Chad has it won already.
Also, Chad is as competitive as they come, he’s proven that. Being a little further removed from his shoulder surgeries I’m sure he’s been working tirelessly on giving the ball a bit more mustard this entire off season.I’m supporting Chad in ’08
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Sack,
we can both throw out stats, or bring up players that have similar or dissimilar starts to their careers as KC. Again you’re comparing KC this time to Favre. Why not compare Chad’s first 7 seasons to Favre’s and see how that looks.But I thank you for at least hinting that there’s a possibility that KC could improve.
Can’t waite for the season to start.
Man, Pennington is a good dude isn’t he? Truth be told, I’m definitely rooting for Clemens, only because it’d be nice if a younger guy with a stronger arm proved he could be the JETS’ QB for the next bunch of years.
But this guy is clearly a consummate professional and a good person.