Favre Less and Less Likely
Well it looks like we are getting close to shutting down the Favre talk. Hutch wrote this in the Star-Ledger yesterday about Favre and the Jets.
According to someone with knowledge of the talks between the Jets and Green Bay Packers, the chances of a deal are “very remote.”
In fact, the person said the possibility of the Jets acquiring the three-time MVP quarterback was unlikely from the start, but the Jets had to do their due diligence. The Jets had cursory discussions with Green Bay but they never turned serious.
That person, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he’s not authorized by the Jets, Packers or Favre to speak on their behalf, said the Jets are a bit miffed that the talks were leaked to the media. They feel it was an effort by the Packers and Favre’s camp to try to create a market for the 38-year-old quarterback.
When Mort reported that the Jets were to talk to Favre, I was dubious, because let’s face it, Mortensen likes to break stories, but doesn’t really like to get all the facts. Once we knew that it was the Packers who called the Jets, that was basically all we needed to know.
So yes, the Jets had internal discussions, fielded a call from the Packers and asked for permission to speak with Favre directly, and then never used that permission to actually call Favre, as best we can tell.
I’ll give you some more thoughts later, but for now, I wouldn’t expect to see Favre in Hempstead anytime soon.
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I never really thought he was coming here, but that report from Hutch is not all that convincing either. It’s funny how your doubting Mort yet you believe this report. I guess I’m still hoping for a miracle or a little excitement to hit the Jets.
I WISH THE REPORT WAS TRUE I WOULD LIKE TO SEE FARVE IN A JET UNIFORME JUST FOR 2 YEARS,MY REASON IS THE JETS ARE A TEAM BUIT TO WIN NOW,AND WITH FARVE WE WOULD HAVE A BETTER CHANCE TO REACH THE SUPERBOWL WITH HIM THAN CHAD OR KELLER,I WOULD TRADE CHAD TO GET FARVE,IAM ONE OF CHAD FAN,EVEN TO SEE HIM GO IT WOULD HURT ME,BUT I WANTH A CHAMPIONSHIP AND RITE NOW FARVE IS OUR BEST CHANCE GO JETS
The Favre talk will be music to my ears when it’s all over and he’s playing for some other team, not here. Unfortunately our stop gap situation is going to be one Chad Pennington or Clemens, with possibly Ratliff as the Number 2 QB, and Erik Ainge holding the clipboard. I truly believe by the end of camp either Chad or Kellen gets traded to another team with the other one being the starter. I know it’s still early, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this regime admits they made a mistake on the Oregon duck 2 years ago. How can he still not look good in practice? Does he not watch film?
ding – dong, the witch is dead. hopefully.
Trading for Favre is the equivalent of the Rangers trading for Phil Esposito in the 70’s. Make a few headlines, sell a few tickets and set the franchise back a decade.
Ratliff will not make the team. He prob wont even throw a pass in the preseason. CP vs KC and then to see how Angie is comming along will take up every preseason game. I wish he would get a chance to play but there are only so many reps. Stupid 80 man roster limits!
Yo Giovanni – put down the megaphone, dude. I can hear you all the way over here….
Thank god, hopefully this non story goes away soon, and Doctor K I agree that Ratliff will be at least the number 2 QB this year. So far, albeit it is training camp, he has looked the best so far since mini camp.
So you guys are thinking trade? How does Ratliff be the #2 QB?
Stick a fork in this Favre guy…he’s done (as a Jet, that is)! Give the ball to Chad, and let’s go already!
I am a strong Chad supporter but people should not give up on Clemens so fast. The kid may need some time to develop. They picked him in the second round because they thought he had something special (strong arm) and potential. Develop him, and do not put to much weight on him to beat Chad, because he can be demoralized.
When Chad is healthy… is not easy. Simply some fans have such a low opinion of Chad’s skills that they think anyone can do it and if not then you must be worthless. This is absolutely not true
Just a thought about Ratliff, All I was saying is that he is looking the best so far and the Jets kept him around on the practice squad last year, he did very well fo the Utes in college and the guy has an a cannon for an arm. KC is going to have to show some major imrovements to win the job. It is quite possible whoever loses the job KC, or Chad, ends up getting traded as the Jets are going to definitely keep Ainge.
Wow!! What happened we got our Messiah? Guys get real!!!
Yeah and if you think Chad is our messiah get your head checked.
Favre is jerking around the Packers and the media and cannot go away soon enough. The closest the Jets will ever come to getting him was 17 years ago when they held the 34th pick and he went #33 to ATL. They certainly do not need to be distracted away from the team focus that Mangini wants, and can you ever see Favre in a ‘run-first’ offense?
Personally, I think Chad gives them the best chance to win now and is fired up for a big year. Ainge was drafted because they don’t feel real great about KC and this regime wants competition at every position.
The question to all Chads backers is this: would you rather be a 10-6 wildcard or a 6-10 with a ton of draft picks and a chance at a top QB in the draft?
I’ll let the flight crew check my head!
Swizzle81 , if the Favre trade fails, your punishment for the season is to watch Chad ..repent for your sinfull thoughts and ask for forgiveness.
Reprocity..you too!
I’m think there’s enough to go around… no sloppy seconds :)
please tell me this guy is not thinking about the 2009 draft already……time to CALM DOWN we have not even had the first snap of the preaseason yet.
Reprocity there is plenty to go around, they look even better in person. The Favre trade will fail and I wont mind mind watching Chad as long as he gives the Jets the past chance to win, that is who should win the job.
cbiscuit – What? Erik Ainge drafted because they don’t feel great about KC? If they didn’t feel great about KC then they would have drafted Brian Brohm at the end of round 1 instead of Dustin Keller.
Erik Ainge was brought in for competition yes, but there is no way management thinks he will take over anytime soon. He is a career 3rd stringer in my opinion. He looked great at times at Tennessee but was SO inconsistant that is why he dropped to the end of the 5th round. He really is like Chad with a slightly stronger arm (still kinda weak compared to most QBs)
as much as i want favre to happen, it ain’t gonna happen. tampa news reports indicate bucs/packers are negotiating, although bucs threw up on the ask from green bay for a conditional pick which would turn into a 1st rounder if favre meets certain performance thresholds or team makes playoffs. clearly if jets had any interest (or vice versa) they would be in the mix also, but appear not to be — it’s probably that favre would rather stay retired than put on a cursed jets uni.
Thank GAWD.
BF = Old. Overrated. Interception. Machine.
There is nothing cursed about the Jets, it is all about ownership and mismanagement.
Leon Hess was one of five partners in the ownership of the Jets in 1963 and became sole owner in 1984.
The Leosn Hess factor was the only curse, he had no much of an idea about football. I recall an news article where his daughter told him what a great opportunity was for the Jets to hire Rich Kotite when Kotite was fired by the Eagles. I was in total shock!! He did rush to hire him!!!
Lets hope that Woody does not follow his steps. The truth of the mater though is that under Woody we have experience more playoff appearances
CP = Old. Weak. Interception (and no TD). Machine.
Cursed or not, Woody has not shown himself to be any better than Leon. Both clueless non-football owners.
ur right woody needs to make smarter choices but come on atleast hes not Al Davis he rly does care bout the jets hes doing pretty well for himself and u guys should support woody and he might C the light bout the PSL sitiution
AA .. I hate when you agree even the slightest with me. All crypto Pats-ies back off.
What makes you think that this blog is an anti-Chad-jets blog? Go chat with your pats-ie friends. Go kiss Belicheat’s …ss
vbsiena24…you say Ainge is a “career 3rd stringer” but that he is “like Chad with a slightly stronger arm.” Isn’t the one thing that has held Chad back from becoming an elite QB his lack of arm strength? So if Ainge is like Chad with a stronger arm, how will he be a career 3rd stringer when Chad has been a successful starter in the NFL for many years. I don’t get it…
Hooray! Finally we’re not the same old Jets making the same old mistakes. Getting Favre would have been just that.
You guys are nuts if you think either Chad or Kellen will be traded this year. No chance whatsoever that we go into the season with either Ratliff or Ainge as the #2.
NYC Parking Expert…..I don’t know if the Favre saga- for us- is over, but now as a matter of principle I do not want this guy dressed in a Jets uniform. Reading his response -between the lines -this guy appears to be disrespectful and a diva with a huge ego.
Now I can see why the Packers do not want him.
The NY media which has hyped his possible acquisition by the Jets they wish to have such a Divain NY because they will have always something to ite about, in total disregard on his impact on our team. Screw Favre..and Tennenbaum and Mangini should make it clear soon. This thing hunging around is not good for our team.
This resurgence by Carlos Delgado of late, especially after nearly overwhelming vitriol and hate from the fans, has got me thinking…what if Chad is the next Carlos? Something is in the air, my friends. We are going to be cheering Chad’s name 3 months from now, I nearly guarentee it…
As for the Favre rumors being over, Mort reported on tonight’s SportsCenter that the Jets have spoken to Favre’s agent. As for being a diva, Favre wants to play football, his chosen profession. The Packers do not want to release him, don’t want him to be a distraction, and (as Favre points out) really don’t want him to play in the NFL at all. Favre wants to be released so he has the freedom to play for whomever he wants. That’s a diva? Plus, the Pack’s price of a 1st round pick is an utter joke. No team will pay that price for a 38 year old QB, no matter how good he is.
As for the Espo-Rangers comparison, how about Messier to the Rangers? Legendary competitor joins a team with a history of failing in the clutch puts the team on his back and leads them to the title.
To me, not getting Favre is a mistake. As much as I like Mangini/Tannenbaum, they have ignored the QB position. I just don’t believe that a 2nd round pick counts. A “same old Jets” mistake would be not getting Favre when it’s possible to do so and when this team desperately needs a QB.
SackDance99. He is a Diva. If he loved the game he wouldn’t mind playing for the Jets or Tampa.
It is incorrect when you say that GB does not want him to play in the NFL, they do not want him to play for teams that the packers play against this season. The fact that he insists playing for the Vikings is because he wants to settle scores with the GB management. Read between the lines!
At first, I was open to the possibility of him leading our team because I believed the things that you state, he loves the game etc,etc. I do not believe it anymore and I think that he is going to be a NEGATIVE and not an upgrade.
Physical skills mean nothing if your heart and mind are not in the right place.
I don’t think any comparison to hockey can be accurate since one player on a hockey team, much like one player on a basketball team, can make a much more significant impact – albeit the QB position is the one that would have the biggest impact other than RB or a sack machine.
I will use the operative word in SackDance99’s post and that is clutch. Is Favre clutch really? When was he last clutch? It wasn’t in the playoffs last year or he would have been in or won a SB. So he can win with a new team that is coming off a 4-12 year but he can’t win with his own team that he is comfortable with and accustomed to along with his surroundings. And he still wanted to retire, for the past 3 years. I don’t know whether he’s a diva or not but I do know he has been in and out of retirement and now his own team doesn’t want him back.
I think I’d rather have Jeff Garcia than Favre at this point. He is a winner who wants to play wherever they let him.
Just once I would like to see management go out on a limb for an offensive weapon. I believe Farve would mean 2-3 additional wins over either of the bland mediocre QB’s we now have.
Think of the excitement this would bring to our team and the hope it would create for us the fans. Why are we willing to roll the dice for players that can only make a marginal difference, but refuse to do the same for a living legend that would force other teams to pay attention to us.
I am sick of being the other New York team. I want the additional wins BF would bring, the excitement he would create, and the respect we would get from having him.
You guys tat call him an old interception machine never watched him play last season. You just don’t like his persona and confuse it with his ability.
I am writing down each and every poster that is so pleased we are not getting him to call you out when you cry us a river about how bad Chad or KC are after they cost us games through ineptitude and throwing the ball like a girl.
Jetchick… the problem is not Favre’s talent.
Ask your self, does Favre want to play for us? According to reports he does not want to choose just from Tampa or the Jets. So screw him.
Why should we serve Favre’s vanity! ?
It is not like he cares about the team. This is not my conclusion or assesment, this is the conclusion and assesment of the Green Bay Packers, who happened to be 3 points away from the SB!
Favre cares about himself, he thinks somehow that we owe him!?
And forget the NY press, they want him in town so that they will have additional material to write about.
Ok jetchick but me down for supporting KC.
what the hell – my posts aren’t posting
jetschick,
go out on a limb for an offensive weapon? you mean like thomas jones, dustin keller, faneca and woody (if you want to count o-linemen)? or are over the hill, overrated, selfish qb’s the only ones that count?
Top 10 reasons NOT to get favre:
10. He’s just not that good. He makes terrible decisions with the football and is just as likely to cost the jets an additional 1-2 games as he is to win an extra 1-2 games.
9. He’s a selfish player who will not go out of his way to mentor our young qb’s. ask aaron rodgers – the guy is a d!ck. all he cares about is himself.
8. Because of #9 and the fact that favre’s remaining 2 years coincide with the last years of clemen’s contract, favre’s presence will completely stunt clemens development and prevent the jets from making any kind of assessment on his ability to QB this team when they’ll have to resign him or let him go in 2010.
7. He doesn’t want to play here.
6. What happens if he isn’t successful and the jets bench him? We become the team that snapped his consecutive start streak? great. no thank you.
5. Unless the jets could get him for a 2nd day pick (and they won’t), they’ll be giving up too much for what amounts to a rental player.
4. It’s going to cause salary cap problems.
3. God help us when we have to listen to announcers gush over him week after week and the jets as a team become a secondary storyline.
2. This isn’t fantasy football – you can’t just pick up a qb, stick him in your starting lineup and expect great things. performance hinges so much on a qb’s ability to grasp the new playbook and create chemistry with his teammates – both of which are kind of tough to do in a single training camp.
1. he’ll get the rest of the team hooked on pain killers.
The nice thing about the current Jets vs past versions is that we are being built according to a specific plan by guys that are football junkies. Say what you want about Tangini, but they do their homework when it comes to personnel decisions. They look at all options and figure what will work in the overall scheme. They don’t want Favre because he doesn’t fit.
Vb – agree Ainge won’t take over anytime soon, but if we are still debating QBs this time next year he will get his shot. 62.6% comp, 31 tds vs 10 picks and 3,500 yds in the SEC with a broken finger is plenty consistent in my book.
All of you wishing this was ever true will eat your words
Brandon….I agree with some points you make. I take exception to the mention of his previous addiction to prescription painkillers as being your number one reason to not have him become a Jet. This is a cheap shot at a man that went public about his problem and beat it.
Pharmaceutical companies and doctors are the biggest source of drug addiction in America not the victims they hook.
At what point do we separate personalities from a professionals ability to get the job done? When is it OK to not fit the team mold yet change the team for the better? Randy Moss certainly did not fit the NE team dictated and controlled overall persona of character guys did he?Look at the immediate and dramatic effect Moss had. Calling linemen offensive weapons is well…offensive, and Thomas Jones scored …lets see 1 TD the entire season…How many did Farve score last year?
Who cares if the press gushes over any one player…the last Jet they gushed over was Joe Willie about 100 years ago. As long as we win more games what does it matter?
If Chad or KC demonstrate the ability to beat good teams with winning records I will admit to being over zealous about getting Farve. I just do not see that as happening.
A wideout’s impact on a team is noway comparable to a QB first of all.
Second, Moss in particular was not the leader of that team going in and no burden was put on his shoulders other than to catch passes.
Third, the Bellicheatriots were already perennial playoff visitors and SB favorites.
Fourth, you are discounting Welker’s impact on the team to open up coverage for Moss.
Was not Keyshawn a media sweetheart? He still is. And Pennington has had his moments too when he wasn’t injured and leading the team.
You don’t take a player just because he’ll put fannies in the seats in football because the fans want to win. I mean you could bring David Beckham if you just wanted a spectacle.
To me it comes down to one thing and that is Favre’s mindset, which we know already, has been to retire. If at some point during the season, when he does sign somewhere if he does, he has one moment of “why did I do this?” to himself then it’s over. Now imagine being a Jets fan, and how you feel year in and year out, and then imagine being Favre during a season here.
Besides I don’t think he’d chose to come here which is why he is asking to speak with other teams than NY and Tampa.
RK…What I was trying to point out was that Moss went from a me first to a team guy. His professionalism and talent allowed him to switch gears. Farve is a warrior and competitor….and a winner. Why would he not be able to adjust to the Jets and be able to make significant contributions which would eclipse what our 2 guys are capable of achieving?
So many times the answers I get here are to deflect the points I make with other issues. Yes, Welker was an asset to NE and helped Moss….football is a team sport and that’s how it works. Moss was a changed player and what he brought was fear to every DC they played.
Farve would do that for us, and Chad will not nor will KC.
On balance and with objectivity he would be a significant upgrade and bring a certain excitement that has been missing from our team for a very long time.
Sometimes a team needs someone that breaks the mold, that brings emotion and intensity in a different package. In his day Joe Willie fit that description…and look what he did.
I feel that at times management attempts to make all our guys subdue their personality with fear of punishment if they speak out. They call players that obey “character guys” I call it control freak management manipulation. Its as if we have the Stepford team of programmed tote the company line guys…all very vanilla.
We need a maverick, outspoken emotional guy or 2 to balance that bland company line. We need someone to fire those character guys up a bit.
Don’t get me wrong I like our tough, hard working , character guys. They are our backbone. Give me one hot tempered, emotional outspoken rebel to create a slightly wilder balance and intensity. Farve can do that.
Favre is a pipe dream, people. An illusion offantasy proportions that will never happen. If you ask why Favre to NYJ won’t be like Moss to NE, it is because we are the Jets! Things like that do’t happen to us when we get a guy that we think is going to be our savior. I think the Jets are doing their due dilligence in the process of at least talking about it, but let’s face it, I know I’d love for there to be world peace too but that’s not happening.
As for the QB conundrum, yes we have issues; but it is what it is, and we’ll have to see how preseason pans out. Don’t get your hopes up on a potential guy to replace our “second coming of Joe WIllie fetish/fantasy” because it’s not gonna come. Believe me I long for the days of the late 60’s and the AFL, but times have changed and the NFL is a coporate monster that “vanilla”/no nonsense teams seems to breed excellence.
One note on the painkillers: it’s a two way street and although pharmaceutical companies have way too much power and money in today’s world, no one is forcing narcotics on people. Favre will tell you that himself.
jetschick – take exception if you want – it was clearly a joke. and every other one of those points was a valid reason on it’s own not to bring favre over. so, good job on responding, but barely addressing them. you say you agree with some of them? which ones do you NOT agree with (other than announcers and painkillers)?
if you don’t believe that offensive linemen can be weapons, then clearly you don’t understand football. also, if you think the tjones acquisition doesn’t count just because he couldn’t produce behind a terrible offensive line, then again, you clearly just don’t understand football.
and for anyone who can say “who cares” about the press gushing over a player, you clearly don’t watch enough football (this is becoming a trend here) – packers games to be exact. The incessant, mind-numbing, nothing else matters, there’s nothing else to talk about, effusive chatter for a full 3 hours week in and week out during games (and more if you listen to WFAN or read the papers) would be unbearable. who cares? someone who wants to actually enjoy the football season. that’s who.
jetschick – I’d like to point out that you are being subjective, not objective, and implying that other’s aren’t being objective is quite belittling.
Clearly Favre is your type of guy, which is fine, but that doesn’t mean that he will work. Just because you perceive him to be a maverick (Top Gun) does not mean it will work here. That may be a detriment in fact.
And Randy Moss did not change his stripes. He dogged it in LA and acted like a baby to get traded for piddling. I think any teammate of his would like to take a blindside shot at him for knowing that he wasn’t giving 100% just because he was unhappy. He is me first and just because he can keep his mouth shut doesn’t disprove that to me. It is not professionalism it is solely talent. He should be sued for breach of contract and banned from the NFL (especially for going to the Cheatriots).
Why would he not, meaning Favre, be able to do more you ask? Well for one he’s 38, coming out of retirement which he has been contemplating for 3 or 4 years, doesn’t know the system, hasn’t won a SB since `96-`97 (when he was 28), will have to meet new players and coaches in a new place, find out what he and everyone is capable of in a new system, with different terminology, different plays, in short time, getting to know his new surroundings, which means the coaches would have a limited play book, thus restricting their game plan, and besides which he doesn’t want to be here.
You sound very convinced. I am not at all. Like some have said this can’t disappear fast enough for me. If we were possibly getting a young proven QB, like in the Rivers/Brees situation, then I would think differently because that would enhance long term potential but this short term thing has been tried and it just leaves them in a hole the following year.
Firstly, Pharmaceutical companies kickback to doctors for writing prescriptions for certain medications. They pay billions to push their pills on the public. The federal government is investigating the over prescribing pain killers such as Oxycontin which was intended for cancer victims not ankle sprains, and was on purpose manufactured with a defeat-able time release system to increase chances of addiction.
Anyone who fails to see the role of doctors and pharmaceutical companies as the largest drug pushers in America is naive.
Secondly, I take exception to the questioning of my football knowledge. I am a fan just like you, not an armchair QB, or pretend sports journalist with an agenda. I watch and study the intricacies of the sport we love with intense enthusiasm and a deep understanding of the subtle nuances most people miss.
Lastly, I don’t care about personalities, and don’t particularly like Farve…he appears to be a tad off the wall and selfish. He can win more games for us then who we have and get out team some much needed attention and respect.
Our team has had in its entire history one great QB. We are bad at making decisions about this position, and have had many chances to draft a franchise QB and took guys like Swiss cheese Furgerson as a number 4 pick.
And yes I understand the importance of linemen, but the last one who put points on the board for us was Jumbo Elliot….and guys you need to score to win.
What is amazing about these posts, especially Brandon’s, is that the central thesis is “Favre’s really not that good and he’s a terrible teammate.” This blog slurps Football Outsiders like you wouldn’t believe and “seanmac” who often posts here always touts the FO objective statistical-based approach to football. As many regulars here know, seanmac and I don’t always see eye-to-eye and I’m often critical of the FO approach. That being said, I’ve thought that Favre and Elway are the 2 most physically gifted QBs of the past 30 years. I’m going from what I’ve seen them do on the field and Favre’s rocket-arm is a marvel. Nobody hits the TE better in the seams…I still remember watching a Monday Night Game when Favre hit Mark Chmura right before half-time with a 40-yard laser…no air under the ball, whistled in like a bullet. I realize, however, that my assessment is subjective. But, objectively looking at the stats, FO’s Aaron Schatz concluded that Favre and Elway are likely the 2 best QB’s in NFL history, primarily because of their consistent excellence:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3276536
Now, saying Favre makes “terrible” decisions is simply one of those subjective throwaway lines that is meaningless. Why, because the guy with the most TDs, wins, pass attempts and completions has also thrown the most INTs? Please. Babe Ruth used to have the most home runs and strikeouts, I guess that means he made lots of terrible decisions, too. Favre as a “selfish” player? A player who has never missed an NFL start? Why, because he’s been in his front office’s face for the last 5-6 years for not improving the team and taking some of the pressure off of his shoulders? Yeah, if I’m Favre shouldn’t I be pissed if I have 5 or more years left, but my team decides to waste a late-first round pick on a QB? That’s a great message.
Objectively, Favre is a great QB, a certain Hall of Famer, is coming off of a great, Pro Bowl season and has shown no signs of physical detioration. QB is by far the most important position in all of pro sports and the Jets need a QB. And, yes, the NFL is not fantasy football, but veteran QBs have a track record of not skipping a beat upon joining a new team. McNair, Garcia, Brees, Vinny T, Montana, etc. Objectively, Favre would help this team by filling a glaring need with a superior player at his position. Subjectively, if you don’t like Favre, so be it. But, from an objective football perspective, obtaining Favre is a no-brainer, except for the cap implications, which, I think, can be addressed (Chad, Barrett and the foregone salary of the draft pick given up may be closer to equaling Favre’s salary than you think).
I’ve found in my profession that many of the most talented are also the most insecure. Maybe Favre wants to be wanted or believes that he has earned the right (even if the notion is ridiculous from a business perspective) to negotiate with any team in the NFL. The fact remains that the Jets are uniquely capable of meeting both Favre’s and the Pack’s concerns. The Jets have acquired enough talent to show Favre that they want to win, now, and are comitted to fielding a winning team. New York is the place where even legends can cement their reputations; Favre should welcome the challege. Maybe Woody has to get involved and court Favre. For the Pack, the Jets are the perfect team. They are in the AFC and don’t play the Pack in the regular season until 2010 (and that game will be at the new Meadowlands). A deal might not happen, but Favre going to the Jets is a logical move for all the parties involved.
“no signs of physical detioration”
(except at the end of the Giants game where he looked like an exhausted old man).
Other than that, it’s a good post. Saying Favre makes terrible decisions completely ignores all the good things he does, like throw for 4000 yards a season and a bunch of TDs. It’s the same dismissiveness with which Pennington is labelled as a “noodle arm” based on one or two weak throws a game, which other quarterbacks are also often guilty of when pressured, off balance or indecisive. Any success someone can achieve in spite of their weaknesses is still a success.
Sack -
actually, the central premise of my argument was that there are enough negatives around favre that outweigh the possible positives.
The fact that I don’t rely solely on statistics is based on my knowledge that you can twist stats to say anything you want them to. I’d much rather rely on my own eyes and what I’ve seen from favre over the last 3 years than some flawed (as i previously pointed out with the FO article) stat. This isn’t to say that I discount all statistics – I just pick and choose which ones I believe are true indicators of reality.
Jetschick -
you have once again responded to me without addressing a single argument, other than the jokey pain killers comment. good job.
and the last OL to put points on the board was not Jumbo, but the last points that the jets scored. More than any other sport, football is a TEAM sport – and a good Oline is the foundation for anything you do on offense. Just because they aren’t “skill” position players doesn’t mean that they don’t contribute to the offense’s performance.
Brandon, I’m not sure what you base your subjective “last 3 years” argument on, but let’s look at Favre’s 2007. Again, Football Outsiders has 2 objective measures for QB, DYAR, which measures a QB’s cumulative statistics and DVOA, which measures value per pass play. Last season, Favre’s DYAR placed him a solid 3rd in the NFL, well behind Brady (1) and Peyton (2), but well ahead of Romo, Brees and Palmer. Favre’s DVOA was 5th, but Garrard and Todd Collins , who were ahead of Favre had nowhere near the pass attempts. Again, Favre was behind Brady (1) and Peyton (2). And, like I’ve said before, Favre had career highs in completion pct. and yards per attempt. So, last season, Favre was, overall, the 3rd best QB in the NFL. Now, from what I saw of the Pack, their defense, OL, and running game were far improved over the previous 2 seasons, so (not surprisingly), Favre returned to his extremely high level of play. Everyone has subjective opinions, but the reality of Favre’s statistical performance last season (66.5% completion pct., 28 TDs and 4,155 yards) was that he was excellent and deserving of his 9th Pro Bowl appearance. A repeat performance with those numbers in a Jets uniform would put him in only Namath’s company. Plus, unlike Joe Willie and every other Jets QB of note (Todd, O’Brien, Vinny and Chad), Favre doesn’t miss starts.
Bent, he may’ve looked old after a dispiriting OT playoff loss, but there was nothing statistically to suggest that he is deteriorating, which was my point.
Not after, during. It was clear the Packers were never going to be able to move the ball in overtime and he threw a weak, tired, interception which if Pennington had thrown people would still be using as ammunition for the KC bandwagon.
What if he has it in him to have another great season, but wears down at the end of the year, so he is less effective in the postseason when he would need to be at his best? Would that make it worth the investment?
I also worry that he is “due” for an injury.
sack –
Since you’re so in love with statistics, let me throw these out at you. Last year, Favre got to play against the league’s 31st, 23rd, and 19th ranked pass defenses twice and the 20th, 21st, 26th once. 9 of his 16 games were played against some of the worst pass defenses in the league.
In the rest of his games he had 1.4 TD/game (league avg against same competition =1.2/g) and 1.3 INT/g (L.A.=1.1/g), a 61.4% Comp % (58.9%), and like everyone else, a 1.1 TD/INT ratio. So, please, let’s keep things in perspective. It’s not like he’s coming off the the greatest season by a QB ever. he’s coming off a season where he took advantage of a weak schedule and was fairly average against the teams that didn’t suck.
if those FO stats weren’t flawed, then these wouldn’t be the numbers. The key is, statistics aside, you can use you own eyes to make a determination on a player’s ability. that’s how I’ve reached my conclusions. I just don’t think he’s good enough to put up with all the negatives that come with him.