Camp Files: Andrew Weiss Reports on 8/4 AM
Andrew Weiss went out to watch the Jets practice this morning and gives us a good sense of how practice went … sounds like Kerry Rhodes is bringing his A game. Remember, if you are going to check out a practice, it could be worth a $50 Gift Card to Best Buy! Send in your pictures, notes, thoughts, whatever, and we’ll post them up! I try to read all comments, but sending me an email is the best method to get entered in the contest. It’s citizen journalism at it’s finest!!
Morning radio note while driving to camp: Carton is on the air, which means he’s nowhere near Jets camp. I consider this one of fortune’s tender mercies. A little later, though, he still finds a way to tick me off. In the middle of a rant, he pillories Mike Tannenbaum for, get this, failing to disavow Bret Favre as a candidate for the QB job. Just for the record, MT has also failed to disavow my 82 year old mother, Jessica Simpson and Barry Bonds for the QB job.
First note: Kris Jenkins is the first to emerge onto the field—and he brings a date. I can’t tell how tall the woman is because she’s walking with a tree. I try to calculate how many dwarfs it would take to tackle him. Seven seems right but they’d have to be some tough little people.
Second note: Only the movie Fantasia could do justice to the spectacle of eighty large men skipping, sliding, stretching and high-stepping their way back and forth, in parallel rows up and down a football field to the strains of rap music.
Sightings: #87 and #86 both practiced. Kudos to Mangini for putting Chris Baker on the line with the first team. No repeat of last year’s nonsense.
Dustin Keller without a brace, bandage or dressing on his ankle. Do not scare me like that.
Drill notes: As most of you know, the first hour of practice includes position drills. The tall, lanky men meet in one corner, the burly giants in another, etc, etc.
I watched the O-line and can report the following. Alan Faneca is a born guard. He relishes the contact and takes it right where you have to to play that position, right across the chest. Brick, by contrast, doesn’t seem to enjoy the contact much. He has long arms and he tries to use them to keep his opponents off his body. Of course, he’s a tackle, but I think it’s more disposition than anything else.
One other note in the drills. Keller caught a pass in the WR drill and got drilled. It turned out to be a message sent by Mr. Rhodes who appears to be warming up the rookies for Thursday night.
Scrimmage: I watched Gholston on three straight plays. On each, he made a first move and then appeared lost. He doesn’t know whether to fish or cut bait at this point. He’s going to need at least half a season to get his feet under him and learn the system. Don’t expect him to be playing and contributing from day one. My guess is, they’ll put him in in sure passing situations, third and long, etc., where he’s got a safety covering his backside and cut him loose. He’s a terrific natural pass rusher so that ought to work well.
Kellen Clemens had another bad interception today. He threw into traffic and paid for it. Penny wasn’t stellar but he didn’t make any mistakes and he had a couple of nice completions. Sound familiar? Incidentally, Cotchery was all over the field.
While TJ had some nice runs for the offense, the star of the day was Leon Washington who can NOT be tackled. He’s so quick and his cuts are so crisp that he looks like the second coming of Barry Sanders. I don’t even think I’m exaggerating.
In the tiresome, already said, department we have Dustin Keller who will start and run with the big dogs from the first day. He just flat gets open and he doesn’t drop what he can reach. Every once in a while he looks like a rookie and you check the number because he looks so good all the rest of the time.
One wide receiver note: David Clowney is making this team. He caught several balls with nice routes including a beauty from KC that went the length of the practice field.
That’s it for Monday morning. One shout out to the willowy blond. Thanks so much for foregoing the longish skirt today in favor of the shorts.
Filed under: Main Page
i also was listening to dopey in the morning and heard the same thing i had to turn him off
Great post, very informative.
Interesting about Clowney – I remember reading earlier that Wallace Wright is having a great camp, too. That must be one helluva battle for the 5th WR spot. I guess the loser goes to the practice squad.
Great stuff Andrew. How did the middle and right side of the o-line look?
good notes but i dont think we will be ably 2 use any of our recivers 2 their true potentilal wit CP weak arm
I know this has been written to death at this point, but what is the QB story? Is Chad running away with this, or is there a closer contest than has been reported?
I can’t wait to watch on Ths. and see how they figure this out? One series each with the first team? Two each?
AW: Always good notes. I like the grandmother and Jessica Simpson reference, but next time, you need to get a picture of the willowy blonde.
KC is catching up Boland reports KC’s interception as being thrown with having 25 seconds left in a two minute drill practice. Which is bad, but a lot of people throw pics in desperation with the clock running down. If KC was really victimized by drops as reported during the scrimmage I believe he is closing the gap.
Chad is having a good camp tho and did have the early lead. It is jsut starting to warm up. Thursday will be big. Crennel is only using starters for 1 quarter, so whoever gets the starting nod will have a qtr to prove their worth. That being said……
Football is back baby! Browns are going down!
How about a pic of the willowy blond? Thanks for the camp update.
Do you guys think we’ll see the defensive line doing any of that stand-up-and-wander-around before the snap this year?
Kerry Rhodes is such a star it’s ridiculous. This guy is the total package. If we can get a guy with half a pulse to line up next to him our secondary will have a huge year…..Always a sad note when reports continue that KC throws another bad pick. This guy has got to win the starting job.
#77 is the key. I dont care if they are standing, in 3 pt stance, sitting indian style, big 77 would have changed this defense all by himself, yet alone the additon of Pace, the addition (by subtraction) involving Vilma, the rededication of Thomas (ugh), the pass rushing of Gholston on 3rd and long.
What I would like to know is what are everyones expectations at this point? We all expect a turn around, but are you guys expecting a 8-8/10-6 turnaround and WC contention, or 11-5/12-4, deep run turnaround? Not without precident.
KC is going to start from game 1. As distressing as the ints. are the TD’s are important to note also, which he seems to throw with a lot more regularity then the ints. In fact I’d like to know how many TD’s he’s thrown in camp so far, it sounds like a lot more then the picks. KC is a young QB, only starting his 3rd year. From what I’ve seen and heard he can definetely find the open receiver and hit him deep. Let’s wait and see, I think he will pan out. It’s to our advantage, if CP starts, it short passes with an occasional intermediate pass, and that will not put points on the board.
I think if Chad starts we will be fine. If he gets hurt or flounders we put KC in. He is obviously still a little raw but he is getting better as camp goes on.
Anthony,
MY prediction is 11-5. I’ve been saying that sinse February and I’m stickng to it. I like the way this team looks.
Ram, I like to pretend like I am an objective and grounded observer of sport– That being said, last year I expected 7-9, 8-8. I was wrong, but had the right idea.
I legitimately expect this team to contend for the playoffs. I think they are so solid across the board that they can succeed with adequate QB play. All the elements for decreased pressure on the QB were absent last year, and were addressed this offseason. Improved line, along with an elite fullback and blocking TE, to improve the running game. Improved RB depth. Improved pass protection. Improved defense.
My biggest concern is lack of depth in the front 7.
I think Chad can go in and win 9 games but I think it is a setback for this team if he starts. We have seen this story before from Chad. I want to see KC get the ball from day 1 and grow through the year. Who knows maybe he can 10 games but I do know he can score points with the offense.
Andrew, Nice post.
Don’t get too down on Gholston. Of course, it will take time for him to mature but, he can still be a factor on passing downs, right out of the gate.
As for Jenkins, prior to seeing him on the field, I didn’t know if he would be able to play the nose. After attending three practices – he was born to play the position. He will be a monster this year. If he stays healthy, he will make everyone on our defense better. It will take two players to stop him. Great pick-up.
David Clowney looked good at every practice I attended. I hope he makes the team. He looked very comfortable on the field. I saw him lay out for one pass and make a beautiful catch on the sideline. Although, Ball and Wright are good players, as well – I like Clowney.
Chad will be the starter and KC is the back-up, as it should be. Management is not entrusting their new toys with KC. With the new O-Line, Chad will get his play-action back, which was noticibly missing last year. If Damien Woody can do a job on the right side, our Offense with Chad should be a beautiful thing to watch. Bombs are nice, winning games are nicer.
What elements does Pennington add to the offense? What does he take away? What does Clemens bring, what does he take away?
Chad brings stability, leadership and decision making. All unmeasurables. Measurably, he brings a high completion percentage, similar interception numbers and is on the downslope of his career at 32. I think his play action is overshadowed by his lack of arm, which hurts the running game.
There is a lot more that goes into than my naked eye can tell, but it appeared the field was more open with Clemens at the helm whem compared to Pennington at QB. More patterns run deep down the field, especially in that Baltimore game. Not since Testaverde was there a threat of a player being hit in stride between 20-30 yards down the field. Of the Jets top 3 recievers (assuming Stuckey), Coles is a burner and Stucky got down the field well in college. Add Keller to the mix, and the personelle suits Clemens.
Having the ability to be a dynamic offense may be worth the risk of playing Clemens. Again, just from observation, no statistical analysis, Pennington threw a ton of picks in high leverage situations last year.
It’s so funny to me when people post “Clemens has to be the starter from week 1″, or “Chad has to start”. The guy that has to start is the guy that plays better, period. Nothing else factors into it.
It seems that I’ve been reading alot lately about Justin Miller getting burned, both on run and pass plays. Does anyone know if he is still favored to start opposite Revis?
ramble
agian i agree with you…as i always do…and to add to KC…i want a gun slinger like him for our QB…im tired on nickle and diming…i want AIR JETS…i want a QB who’s gonna take the chance to make a play…im tired of conservative…i see KC as a play maker waiting to happen…i love chad but like i said before…if chad doesn’t destroy KC in camp then its time to move on with the young gun who will make the throws and plays were all waiting for…just my thoughts…
Dak,
I understand your frustration with nickle & diming, but do you want a gunslinger if it means we don’t win as many games? I’m not saying that Chad WILL win more games, but that if KC keeps throwing INTs, we might be better off looking for another gunslinger next year. I want some brains and poise to go with that strong arm…
I like the tought of Jenkins sitting indian style and everyone buzzing around him like Dennis Hopper in Apocolypse Now! Just Freakion carzy man!!! Like sack is the middle word in life man! You dont mess with Jenkins man!
NYC, You’re right that if the picks keep comming we will be looking for a QB next year. Also if CP starts we will be looking for a new QB soon anyway. Go with the gun slinger tank it or rock it out. If he tanks then we will be in a good spot to take the best QB next year in stead of outside the top 10 looking at the 2nd or 3rd best QB.
Reprocity – I like the way you think. Unfortunately most Jets fans don’t think like that. I was one of the fans who hated that they won the meaningless game at the end of the year which would have got us the #3 pick in the draft (i think).
CP might give us a win range of lets say 7-10 wins this year.
KC might give us a win range of 5-11 wins this year. But his potential to develop for the future in my minds factors into which QB should start this year.
So conservative 7-10 win year (outside shot at playoffs and no chance at progression at QB for future years) or risk/reward 5-11 win year year Clemens (outside shot at playoffs and potential for progression at QB for future years?)
I don’t see Chad leading the Jets anywhere in the playoffs if we made it so say we go 10-6 make the playoffs we got a #20-22 draft pick next year..eh..harder to build 09 around that.
Clemens might get the Jets to the playoffs so lets say 10-6 playoffs. If we make it with Clemens then his potential is shining and we have a chance in the playoffs. Worst case scenario he bombs we win 5 games. Then we know we need a future QB and have a #8-10 draft pick. Easier to build upon for 09.
I think Clemmens has more up side,and can add a verticle game to the offense. Let’s be honest when Chad is the QB there are so many players within five yards of scrimage it seems like were playing fifteen on eleven. Test # 1 Thursday vs Browns.
Dakar, KC is not exactly a gun slinger. Besides, an arm is just one aspect of a QB’s game. I would love Joe Namath, myself. KC hasn’t proven that he can beat a good team. With all the new weapons, on Offense and Defense, why would you want a questionmark at QB. Chad can make a deep throw, if it’s there. If anything, our receivers are possesion receivers, not deep threats. We need experience, accuracy, and leadership. There is no comparison between KC and Chad. If we had picked up Brett Favre, I would have no problem with him taking over for Chad as, he never gets hurt and, there is no question that he can get the job done. KC still has alot to learn.
5 is the typical number of WR spots on a team. With Coles and Cotch starting, Stuckey the presumptive #3, Henry and his potential being a #5, it leaves an opening for #4 with the candidates being Smith, Clowney and Wright in no particular order. Preseason game performance should determine who makes it. With Clowney able to be put on the practice squad, he could leave the competition to the Wright & Smith. Ball and Raymond should be number victims. And while all these kids make nice backups, I would hate to see any of them start in place of an injured Coles & Cotch.
harvlis
ofcourse the qb needs all those things to be successful…and i think
kc gives us more than everybody thinks…or sees at camp…again i would go with a guy who has upside and an arm who is capable of learning just like drew breese learned…just like anderson learned out in cleveland…you guys think that if we draft a QB next year he’s gonna come in here and conquer the league…im sorry but thats not gonna happen…there aren’t to many big bens and coock sucking brady’s coming out of college these daysjust my thoughts…
Dakar, did anyone think that Tom Brady would be as good as he turned out. You never know.
Although you are not a believer, I would feel confident of Chad leading our team over Anderson or Brees. Remember, it is a team game.
Dak,
As always we agree on all things Jets. KC is young and learning, he reminds me of Matt Hasselback when he was traded to Seattle from Green Bay. Lots of potential, but he needed to learn, and the only way that happens is by playing. Yea, there will be growing pains, but the end result will make it all worthwhile.
With Chad there is a ceiling, and thats not good enough. We can win 9 or maybe 10 games with Chad, but I want 11, 12 and 13 win seasons, Chad can’t deliver that.
The Jets are a young team with a lot of new talent, let’s get KC in there and let him grow with the other young guys.
BTW, that blond in the picture up top is a piece of ass!
harvlis
thats exactly my point…we dont know what we have in KC and you guys have no faith in him…god bless give the kid a chance…
ramble
she is hot aint she…that jessacca does look tasty… :o)
harvlis
your high if you take chad over breese…sorry to say that…but when it comes to fantasy no1 picks chad over breese in any league…or in reality…just my thoughts…
It’s going to be interesting to see which receivers make the squad, Clowney, Wright, Henry, Smith. I see Stuckey earning the 3rd slot. With Keller as a legit option and an improved line from last year for not only the passing game but for TJ and Leon as well, its gonna be nice to watch for a change. I dont mind who wins the QB job because I feel the QB position this year is not gonna be a gunslinger mentality, more of a controlled type and everything being set up thru the running game.
Swizzle,
Don’t discount Brad Smith for that 3rd WR spot. I’ve been to two practices so far, and he looks like a different player.
Keller will work his way on to the field through out the season, and may at some time become the 3rd receiver.
Harvlis –
You say that KC hasn’t proven he could beat a good team — that was him under center last season when the Jets upset the then 7-2 Steelers, right?
I think a lot of fans have been so focused on this training camp and the interception count (it’s practice, right?), that they’ve forgotten some of the big picture. Clemens did some pretty solid things last year, especially for a 2nd year QB with no line. He won more games than Chad behind the same line, and came close in a few others (vs. Wash & Baltimore).
I’m not saying he should be the starter — like Dakar, I’m just saying KC may be better than people are giving him credit for. Just my thoughts …
Harvlis,
While were on the subject, wasn’t it Kellen who threw that laser to Justin McCarins at the 5 yd line, who should have waltzed into the end zone for the tie? Also, wasn’t it Kellen who, a few minutes later gave McCarins the chance for redemption, but once again dropped the ball (I’m refering to the Baltimore game)?
I honestly believe if McDrops had made that catch, it might have changed the Jets season.
I honestly believe that if you draft a QB high in the 2nd round, that at some point you have to live or die with that QB. Well, that point is now, we have to habd the reins over to KC and give him all the support of a starting QB, and it cannot be a half year, it takes a full season or two. Otherwise you never give that QB a chance to mature.
KC needs to start from the beginning this season, and we have to get behind him and live with the growing pains.
The difference between a good and bad season is…. a good defense!!! I dont want our D to give up 4-5yds a carry to every running back!! If your QB can mangae a game and move the chains and your D can stop the opponents then you have a good chance to win!!
Ramble, I agree about KC. I also think Tangini thinks long term. I do not think their jobs are in trouble this year, and they ARE NOT saddled with this “win now” mentality. I’ve written it before, but there are few teams that fit that description. It implies a team that has 95% of the pieces in place, ie, the Patriots last year. So they went out and fixed their only weakness, receiver. A good example this year would be Minnesota. If they could get Favre, or another above avg QB, that would fill their missing piece. The Jets don’t even know what they have yet. None of their moves could work out, or all of them could. For the future of the team, they need to know this year if Kellen can be the answer at QB, that’s why they will start him. The only caveate is if Chad shows he is demonstrably better, then of course he would start.
ramble
i agree…
let me add that the only stats that matter are in the win loss collum…KC had 2 more wins than chad…it should have been 4 but dropped passes and you can probably add the cleveland game aswell if our defense didn’t get scared of jamal lewis…and let him score from 31 yards out…so if those passes were caught and the defense stiffened enough to give
kc a chance to win the game…he would have a 6-1 record…but we all know thats not what happened…just like this past scrimage…his passes are still being dropped…he should start…
5-2 or 6-1…just my thoughts…and by the way…i keep getting kicked off in the middle of writing something…
On QBs:
Chad’s only shot at QB with three legit receivers was the year of the smurfs. He did pretty well.
Last year, neither guy had pass protection, there was no running game and they hardly ever had Coles and Cotchery together. McCareins was the, ahem, third option. Chad’s strengths: full understanding of the game plan and playbook, superb play action and stellar accuracy were useless to a team that had no time, couldn’t pretend to run and was short of talented receivers. KC had the talent to maybe steal a game or two that Chad could not have won. We all saw that in the Baltimore game. However, if the team’s weaknesses are fixed, it’s a different equation. We’re going to be playing ball control, shorten the game, run to set up the pass, pass to keep possession, football. That means the downfield throw will be few and far between. If this is how we’re going to play, whoever sees the field better, fakes the run well, makes fewer mistakes and is more accurate has to win the job. Right now, Chad is doing these things better than KC, but we’ll have to see.
With Cotchery, Coles and Stuckey/Smith, I see a lot of open receivers regardless of who the QB is especially with DK tearing across the field. I expect the offense to be much improved, maybe an extra TD per game.
No way that KC would have gone 5-2. KC last season could have a 7-0 record; But it was the bad team all around him and the other teams also seemed to be better. Another factor , which unfairly distracted him was Arizona and all the media talk about his farm. Arizona was good and so was Marc Bulger. This year though things will be different. He will grow like a mushroom after a rainy day and the rainbow will sign again on a sunny day.
Andrew,
I agree that whoever is doing those things you mention better should win, but it’s only the first week and a half. As has been written in other posts, Chad has a ceiling, KC can make throws that Chad cam only dream about making. That means if we are down by a field goal or TD KC can throw that quick strike that will put us back in the game. Or, KC can make a few throws to any one of 3-4 good receivers that can put a game out of reach. That is what KC brings to the table, that Chad cannot. Thats why KC has to start from week 1 and keep pakying.
Ok Nikolas, whatever you say(?).
Guys..bend ..on your knees and pray.. because Mangini may start Chad and then KC will be buried.
Can you imagine rooting for the other teams while Chad is beating them up? This can turn into a real nightmare.
is there any way i can watch the game on thursday im in virginia
Does anyone have info on David Harris? He’s missed all the practices to date it appears, does he have a serious injury that could threaten opening day or worse? Anyone know?
Guys,
I have never said that KC is a bad QB. Down the road, he could become a great player. At this time, as long as he is healthy – Chad is a better QB. I have seen it at each of the four practices that I have attended and you will see it in the pre-season games. If you want Peyton Manning, Chad is not Peyton. If you want to win double digit games and have a shot in the playoffs (as long as your kicker doesn’t miss three FG”s) – Chad gives you your best chance. The more I see the new players, the more I love the job that Tannenbaum has done. We are going to be a good team with either QB playing. I just feel that Chad has the magic and the destiny to take us to the promised land.
By the way, this thread gets my vote for best post of the summer to date; good content, even better pictures. Keep it up!
I love how all the “experts” out there (I mean alot of guys posting here) KNOW that Chad has a ceiling. You don’t know anything. Chad did what he did before with those teams he was playing with (it’s a team game, remember) and what he does this year could easily be different.
All the same, Kellen could be better than Chad IF he plays well enough to win the starting job. But basing everything on what happened in past years, because they only got this far or that far in the playoffs – pathetic. If whoever thinks that were the coach of the Colts, I guess P. Manning would’ve been benched permanently after all those playoff losses, huh?
To have a mediocre team now in order to get a higher pick to use on a QB later – even more pathetic. Play the best guys you have and If they have a perceived ceiling, sit back and see if that ceiling has been raised because of the new makeup of the team.