Favre Specifics
With a lot of misinformation flying about regarding the Brett Favre situation, I thought I would try and nail down some of these points to help you guys debate the deal in as informed fashion as possible. Please take the time to read this, as it took me ages to research.
If anyone disagrees with any of the information after the jump, please let me know in the comments and I will update it
1. Was Pennington really “kicked to the curb”?
Not really. In order to fit Favre’s salary under the cap (we’ll get into how they did that in a bit), they had to release him by 4pm the next day, since league rules dictate that after 1 June, you must be under the cap at 4pm each day. So, there wasn’t really a realistic chance of trading him, with teams knowing he would have to hit the market anyway and the only way they could have retained him would have been to negotiate his salary for the year all the way down to $3m. The only other option would have been to release a combination of players instead, but that would have had to include at least one starter (Barrett presumably would have been cut, but then the Jets would have had to either cut Ellis or Barton, or a larger number of players). Can you really see the Jets giving up a starter to keep a backup that Favre’s history tells us won’t be needed?
2. How did the Jets manage to take on Favre’s salary and stay under the cap?
Good question, because the cap saving for cutting Pennington was reported as $1.8m as recently as last month and the Jets were supposedly $2m under the cap, so how did they manage to get to $12m under the cap, just by cuttting Chad – or did Brett or some other Jets restructure to get this deal to work? Actually, there was some incorrect information at the heart of this. The Jets were estimated as being $2m under the cap about a month ago, because at that stage everyone was assuming the salary in the new Rhodes contract was evenly spread out over the course of the contract (as details hadn’t been released, this was all anyone had to go on as a best-estimate). In fact, the Jets quietly released details a month ago and Rhodes deal is heavily backloaded, so he gets 500K in 2008 (and only 720K in 2009). Therefore, the Jets were actually about 6.5m under. The second component is that the saving for cutting Pennington was $6m, not $1.8m. The $1.8m saving was based on a reported salary of $7.8m for the 2008 season (it was actually $9m) and a $6m accelerated cap hit for cutting him (since it was a post-June cut, the cap hit is spread over two years, so the 2008 cap hit is $3m and therefore the saving is $9m). The key thing here is that $3m of money counts towards the cap next year in respect of Chad, so if Favre is still here, that’s $16m of cap money allocated to the QB position before even taking into account Clemens, Ratliff, Ainge or any rookie. (It is worth noting that if the Jets chose to release a combination of players rather than Chad to get under the cap, this would have created even more dead cap space in 2009, rendering the scenario even less feasible than it already was).
3. What is Brett’s Cap Status?
Brett’s contract runs through 2010 and garners him $12m this year, $13m next year and $14m in 2010. The Jets can cut or trade him at any time without any cap hits arising (of course they won’t want to trade him to an NFC North team (this restriction may even extend to all NFC or even all NFL teams) within the next year because they will have to fork over three first round picks to the Packers. Incidentally, the Packers had a $3m cap hit when they traded him, but obviously save $12m of salary. Another thing that isn’t being reported much is that the Jets apparently get another pick in the deal if Favre retires at the end of the season. The pick they get back will be a 2010 pick and will depend on what conditional pick they gave up (1st rounder given up – ie 80% of snaps and Jets reach the Superbowl = 5th rounder in 2010 to the Jets if Favre retires at season’s end…..2nd rounder given up – 70%/playoffs = 6th rounder in 2010 if he retires at the end of the year…..3rd rounder given up – 50% snaps, no playoffs = 7th rounder in 2010 if Favre retires at end of the season.
Hope that makes sense…I will monitor the comments for any clarifications required.
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Thanks, Bent. Great post. This is the first I’ve heard about the Jets getting a pick back if he retires after this year. I’m amazed that Tanny could get them to do that.
Everything looks right, interesting stuff on the pick, nice job
tanny = gm of the year
No excuses for Mangini, he has everything, now let’s see what happens.
Wow. Very interesting. It seems like a lot of fabrications from the local newspapers in terms of the Jets cap situation to make this seem a lot worse. Once again the papers are not letting the facts get in the way of a good story.
yea ur right j mangini has all the players he needs 2 make the playoffs and wat i hate is
and looks like everything makes sense so i guess rhodes guraneteed money makes up for his salary 4 2008 and 09
If Favre is an absolute flop in Green this year, can we please fire Tannenbaum? We have peoole annointing him GM of the year now – so if we see 5-11 can we say that the decisions (especially this one) were foolish?
Im not sure Favre wants to play anymore. And even if he does Im not sure he has anything left. Yes I saw 2007, but what about 2006, 2005? He didnt want to get hit anymore, which is fine cause neither do I, but I dont play QB in the NFL.
I thought we had a playoff team (tailor made for Chad) before the trade. Yes I love Chad, and I realize that Favre WAS hundreds of times better then Chad ever was, but this trade reeks of desperation, and I was psyched about the season when the week began.
Lets hope Im wrong. I hope for Tannenbaums sake Im wrong.
As a fan I cant help but get caught up in the hoopla, but with my GM cap Im not so sure.
I think a GM’s job is put put what should be the absolute best team possible on the field. There are no guarantees, of course. I love Chad, too, but I won’t argue that Favre SHOULD be an upgrade over Chad. We got him for next to nothing and this is why people are congratulating Tanny. No one is saying that we definitely will be in the SB. No GM can assure that that will happen. I give Tanny major kudos for doing the necessary research and being ready to make a move if everything fell into place. It didn’t look like that would happen – not to Tanny or farve or anyone – but it did.
Tanny made a very logical, very smart, very creative move and should be commended. There is nothing desperate about it – what is desperate about trying to improve the team? If the team goes 5-11, it doesn’t mean Tanny should be fired, it means that the moves didn’t work out. What were the big questions marks after last year? Pass Rush, receiver/pass catchers (i.e. Keller), Oline, QB.
Looks to me like Tanny addressed them all. It’s not like P. manning or Brady were on the market. What more should he do?
yeah, seriously Bent – good job getting all the details together on this. this was a great post.
Awesome job of research Bent. Based on this, I am more convinced that the pressure is squarely on Brett’s shoulders to get it done this year. He has to be motivated to ride out in a blaze of glory. If it doesn’t work out, no harm no foul – we move on to KC and the others in 2009 wo penalty. I can’t see Brett wanting another year of this circus, and if so we get return picks!?. Agree with the Parking guy – gotta give Tanny credit.
The Morons of this organization (Tannenbaum and Mangini) are solely responsible for what transpired last season. It was debated before the beginning of last season, during the season and in the press; and those fans who still do not want to accept it, I wish them good luck in life because they are going to need it.
It is obvious to me that they attempted to make Chad the scapegoat and they did “kicked him to the curb”.
Chad can not take us to the Promised Land, they claim. Isn’t this an indirect hint that he might have also been responsible for the 4-12 season?
And now they sell fantasy football, because they have no concept of the real thing.
Thanks for the research.
As I’ve stated numerous times on this site, I am very much against bringing Favre in. When he starts throwing INTs left and right, and our improved defense can’t overcome it all, it will become clear that this franchise has been set back about as far as it was during Kotite’s reign.
Yes, it will be that bad. Neil O’Donnell was supposed to be the savior, remember?
Clemens’ development will be stunted. Players like Faneca and Woody will begin to gripe, because they ar eused to playing not only on winning teams, but for winning organizations.
You take a hard look at the Brett pony show in Cleveland Thurs. night on tape. He looks like a man who only came back to spite the Pack, and his detractors. All of you who think Brett is the second coming of Joe Willie, go take a look at Favre’s 2005 and 2006 seasons. I’d take Chad over that Brett any day.
This is going to end badly for all of us long-suffering Jets fans.
One thing you will learn about Brett Favre, “What you see, is what you get”. He doesn’t try to be anything he isn’t. It’s why the Packer fans love him so much. He loves the game of football, and he puts everything he has into it. AND, Brett’s a powerful motivator, which is huge in a locker room. Many of us from Green Bay are extremely angry with our management. Your GM/coach – did the right thing to bring him there. I wish our GM had been smart enough to make sure he stayed with Green Bay. Things aren’t over yet in Green Bay, Wisconsin. There are many, many very angry fans. Go Jets!
oscarfactor:
How right you are!!
Everyone thinks he is the second comming of Joe Willie. My gut feeling is he will bring us to the same level that Pennington would have but with HIM getting all the credit instead of the team. Tangini can bask in all their glory now but what B S are they going to spew when we finish 10-6 and just make the playoffs? I know that Johnson orchestrated this move but Mangini signed off on it. And the hypocrasy of all about Jet core values. This team reminds me of VonSteinbrenner Yankee days.
PS.
I have read that Penningtons arm strength has suddendly gotten ALOT better. He is zipping passes. Maybe that’s what he needed… to get away from all the negative press about his arm strength. Wouldn’t that be something to see him with the Dolphins agaist the Jets?
You guys have to wake up. I love Chad, too, but if you don’t think that favre plays at a higher level. you are clueless about football. Look at any stats – even from Favre’s bad years, and you will see this is correct.
Nikolas – I admire your loyalty to Chad, but you are taking it too far. Overkill.
question for you all, If Chad goes to the Dolphins, how much practical info will they be able to gleanp from him? how much will we have to change and disguise during those two games? is this a concern? I mean we pick up the pays scraps to pump them for info- Chad was the leader of the team- and could probably recite the playbook cover to cover…
oscar/ fonzie,
Maybe you guys didn’t notice all the ints that were thrown last year by CP and KC, so if Favre throws a few with us, were none the worse.
How is it that you guys can’t see the Favre is a substantial upgrade over CP and KC. If we get 75% of what he (BF) did last season, it will still be better then anything CP ever did. Just for the record: 4100 yds- 28 TD’s, 15 ints. NFC championship game. There is virtually no risk in bringing him in, a fifth round pick, big deal.
call me crazy but all this PR with Brett Favre and making this trade has more to do with PSL’s and the new stadium then actually winning a superbowl. Woody is all about making money and this makes complete sense. Sure Favre is a good addition if he plays like 07 but after hearing his first press conference as a NYJ there seemed to be no emotion at all.. more like he could careless.
With Favre style of play and how Mangini likes to coach this is going to get really interesting. I just really hope it works out.
J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS
Oh by the way, the Yankees under VonSteinbrenner have won 11 World Series.
It’s funny how, after Brett Favre comes to town and Chad Pennington gets released, everybody LOVES Chad. Everybody. Even those of you who are kissing every block of NYC cement Favre steps foot on are saying, “We LOVED Chad, but he’s no Favre.”
Let’s get real. People were calling for him to go for years, sadly, because it’s true, regardless of what Brett Favre brings to this team, Chad will be missed. I was a fan of his from Day One. Backing up Vinny, he was easily the most excited, enthusiastic player on the sidelines, even knowing he might not play a single down all year. He was waving his towel, cheering on every down, and even though I was critical of him at times just like everybody else, despite how the team performed with him at the helm (the good and the bad), I would’ve liked to see him in a Jets uniform from the start of his career to the end.
That said, it’s kind of sad to admit that Brett Favre gives us a better chance to win, but it’s true. Chad was easily more a Jet than Brett Favre likely will ever be. Like I said, he cheered, he waved, he jumped around…as a back-up with no chance of playing time in sight. I wish him the best…even knowing that he’ll be the starting QB on our division rivals the Dolphins (yes, he signed a two year deal with them this evening).
Now, for the Brett detractors…I don’t understand the basis for all this concern stemming from the introductory press conference. From a simple journalistic standpoint, looking only at what he came to say, he said all the right things, and that’s all that should matter. Football is what it is, it’s a business, he’ll always been known as a Green Bay Packer, and he’s here to do what he’s always done, play football to the best of his ability. Why are people upset that he didn’t come in and say, “Yeah, we’re going to win a Super Bowl and I’m gonna win MVP”? Why would he?
Well, people claim, look at him, he looks sad, disheartened, out of place, he doesn’t want to be here. The fact of the matter is that, in sports, oftentimes players jump from team to team on a regular basis. Others, however, stay with the same team almost their entire careers – ie, Brett Favre and Chad Pennington. We all feel kinda bad seeing Chad leave, right? And when he goes and gets introduced to the Dolphins, I imagine he’ll look a little bit like how Brett Favre looked joining the Jets – it doesn’t look quite right and he doesn’t look as happy as a fish in water. Of course not, he’s suddenly, in a matter of days, jumped from the pond he’s been swimming in for YEARS to a brand new pond. It’s a shocking experience. If you’re TO and it’s all about the money, all about ME ME ME, blah blah blah, sure, you can go just about anywhere they ask you to, anywhere they pay you to go, do your job, laugh, have a good time, because you’re getting all that you need – pads and a paycheck. It’s kind of nice to see a guy like Favre, someone with a little heart and soul, like Chad, join the team, and after such a whirlwind couple of days, it’s no wonder you see a little more than just a cardboard cutout standing there at the podium.
It makes perfect sense, too, that, aside from discussing the Packers situation, Favre spoke most about “the guys in the locker room,” the other fish in this new pond. Because that’s what this whole thing is all about, that’s why everyone’s seeing a sort of disenchanted Brett Favre. He wants to play, and he wanted to play in Green Bay (or the same division) simply because it was familiar territory. If your parents go out of town for a few days, it’s easier to go and stay with your aunt and cousins rather than a perfect stranger, a babysitter who lives down the street. But if that’s the hand you’re dealt, though you’ll have that initial quasi-culture shock, you meet the new team, the new family, you get into your routine, and sure enough that new house feels less like a motel and more like home. Your roommate’s no longer than stranger in the other room, but a friend you hang out with.
If you’re going to look at Brett Favre’s welcome as more than just an introductory speech, if you’re going to examine his mannerisms and his tone of voice, you need to take a moment to wonder WHY he might be acting that way, instead of just saying, “Oh, he looks sad, he doesn’t want to be here, he’s going to play poorly.” He’s here for one reason and that is that he WANTS to play. And I’m pretty sure that once he gets into a rhythm with the rest of the team, once Giant Stadium starts feeling less like an away game and more like home, he’ll start playing with that same vigor he played with in Green Bay…which I’m pleased to say is likely better than we’ve seen at the QB position in quite some time.
hate to admit it, but I agree with Ramble914. eewwww
To the N Y City Parking Expert
Maybe you should go back and look at the stats. If you do so.. Chad has a higher QB ratings than Favre, and despite Favre’s strong arm a higher yards/pass. So, what statistics are you talking about?
And what makes your opinion a FACT that Favre at 39 with an inability and unwilliness to study film and the playbook, is an upgrade for this team? Where is the proof of that? In your desire?
There are many bloggers here, who withought any factual base they say I am off base. Have they ever thought that maybe they do not stand on any base at all.
And what kind an argument is the one that “well last year we threw interceptions” so what if Favre does the same?
I thought that the etam tried to correct that by spending millions for the OL.
I see, now we are working on the excuse?
I will compare Chad’s play behind a horrible OL, with Favre’s behind an OL with two pro-bowlers and two first round picks going on their third year?
What a joke.
Great post Bent. There should be a Bent chat open…whenever he feels like it of course.
Bent not having mentioned BBall in a while means there is football talk going on. I think you need a NEW crystal ball.
And great job to everyone during the hottest news in Jets talk since…
Thanks:
Editor in Chief:
Brian Bassett
UK Bureau Chief
Bent
Contributors
Prince
R in CT
Drack
TOON2388
JMattera
Mack Rosenberg
D.Rose
Thanks also to the “pre-Favre” camp posts (Matt Matros, What happened to the Iron Ref?. Seriously, go back and read some of the stuff when this all started. There is so much more “misinformation” it’s crazy. It seems weirdly so last year.
The CP vs KC things are interesting…and now all moot.
http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=4751
Thanks Gary Meyers:
http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=4797
I don’t think any news conference will convey any feelings since these people have like 3 hours sleep. It was hard watching Tannenbaum speak at Cleveland. Favre looked numb too.
Schable is not as serious as first thought..
I’ve been against Favre from the beginning but not because he’s not better than what the Jets had. He’s here. Ability is unquestionable but the circumstances and the price was unknown -1st rounder without guarantee would have been a bad move – aren’t imho.
So what does everyone who wanted to draft a QB recently have to say about this? Do all the people that were running around complaining about the FO for not getting/drafting a QB have something to say about this? Or are all of your “most important” position not being addressed questions satisfied?
Is this the QB everyone wanted? I am certain that nobody will question the teams desire to put a team on the field but as several have pointed out the potential marketing strategy for selling PSLs cannot be ignored.
Jeez, Nikolas. You are OD’ing on negativity, here. Drawing from your posts, it seems you are basically saying that you hate the owner, you hate the GM, you hate the coach, you hate the QB they brought in and you hate any fans that don’t share you’re singular perspective, which I’m afraid is most. Your version of enjoying a sports team seems awfully dark. Even for a Jets fan.
ramble914:
I’m very surprised at you, being a stat man and all. Are you saying that BF is that much better than CP because he has (padded his record) played football for what seems like hundreds of years? What I’m most PO’d about (among several issues) is that all the BS about Jet core values, building a team through the draft, getting players resposible for each other etc,etc, we DO DUMP PENNINGTON TO THE CURB Bent, in order to have maybe one more win than 10-6? This move reeks of desperation By Woody to shove the PSL’s up the faithfulls butts and when we do go 10-6 or 11-5 who do you think will get all the speeches all the credit when the THE REAL TEAM PLAYERS have given up their sweat, health and EVEN SALARIES to build a team with “Jet Core Values”.
PS. I will answer the VonSteibrnner issue later.
fonzie,
That’s exactaly what I’m saying, BF is that much better then Chad. I think Favre fits in exactaly with the core values, great character, team player/leader.
Why is it that when teams like Dallas or New England bring in marquee veterans they’re geniuses, and win by the way; when we do it, we’re desperate? If you remember, Chad was the benefit of exactalt the same thing, he replaced in ineffective Vinny, had a great season and Vinny was subsequently released. It’s the nature of the business, the same thing will happen to P. Manning and T. Brady someday.
I love Chad, but after watching him last season I became convinced he could not get us beyond a certain point. Favre had a season last year that I can only dream about. Before we signed BF, I was hoping KC would start, anything for a change.
It’s unfortunate CP had all those injuries, because if he didn’t, we wouldn’t be having this converstaion. Instead, we’d be talking how fortunate we are to have one of the best QB’s in the NFL.
I respect your position fonzie,, but mine happens to be different, after almost 40 years of being a Jet fan, I want a magical season, and I think BF makes that more of a possibility then CP.
Two things:
1.) Kewpie Doll to Jets Fan for telling it like it is
2.) The Jets Miami game is now, post Chad signing there, the litmus test for this regime. Two teams off terrible years. BP goes in one direction. Tangini in another. Both have a month to get their new starting QB in shape. Both have a lot of new players everyone must adjust to.
Most folks would admit the Jets talent going into training camp was or should be superior to the Fish. We had the choice of QBs and took Favre. If we don’t win the game, fans had better realize we have an inept coaching staff and front office.
harlan
Here is a question to think about….. What would the cost to get Brett Farve be if Bradway was still the GM… My guess is at least a first round pick. Tannenbaum is doing a solid job finding ways to get players at a good value.
Nikolas – read Subwayfare’s post above. If you really don’t believe that favre is an upgrade over chad (and please remember, I am a big chad fan have have actually agreed with you on many posts RE: chad vs clemens), you are clueless. It is not all about completion %, it’s about being a better qb. If you really think chad is a better qb than favre, you are in a minority of 1.
oscarfactor…
That’s why you are a LOSER…and why the Jets have been choker and losers for 30 years…Chad Pennington..?? Please, the guy couldn’t throw 30 yards…
You embody the mentality of the Jets/Mets which makes your team the laughing stocks of the country.
Why don’t you decide to be a winner for once and get behind Favre..because that’s what he is…a winner1
ramble914:
There’s a huge conflict of opinions here. Please read the attached professional opinion then please let me know if you still feel he meets our Jet core values “exactly” as you say he does. This from a guy that 72 hours ago said he did NOT want to play for the Jets.
Also, comparing percentages between the two (i know BF has more of everything including longer time at the Job) what % gives you that warm fuzzy feeling that BF will take us to the promise land and CP couln’t? http://www.northjersey.com/sports/jets/OConnor_Favre_is_nothing_but_selfish.html
Yea, I read that article by O’Connor previously. I also read and heard from Mortenson and Glazer, the two guys who were probably more wired into this whole thing more then anyone, that 99% of what was reported was incorrect. Was the Jets his first choice, no they weren’t, but do you think for a second he won’t play his ass off for us?
I’ll tell you what fonz, let’s you and I monitor how CP and BF do with their respective teams and let’s see who has the better season both statistically and in the rankings. If nothing else it should be a fun season.
Talk to you soon.
I’ll take that offer if you tell me how much the Jets were favorite over Miami before the trade. This way we even up the teams and place true value on ea. QB Okay?
This idea that Chad is a great QB is absurd. He really hasn’t had a great season since 2004. Even in 2006 he started to make a lot of bad decisions and throw bad interceptions. He’s always injured! Yes you really can’t help getting injured but staying on the field is part of being a great player. He’s been a great team player but a very good QB at best.
I have been against them bringing back Chad since the end of the season. I was never a HUGE Favre supporter but the best part of this deal was not having to worry about playing Chad ever again! He was good for us but its the business of football where you have to move forward- look what happened when we let Curtis just fall apart without a back up plan. I am a fan of the Jets- not individual players. I’d be willing to bet that at least 95% of other teams defenses would rather gameplan against Chad than Brett.
The only team who was really interested in him was the Dolphins! The Vikings are supposedly a good QB away from being a superbowl team but they didn’t even think about it! What does it tell you that a team with the best running game(RB and offensive line) and top 10 defense doesn’t even want Chad???!!!
Fonzie,
I honestly don’t know what the line is on the first game, quite frankly I didn’t know they were even posted this early. I’m not a betting man, so I don’t usually follow the lines on games.
You tell me.
fonzie/naples — before the trade, the release, and the signing the Jets were -3 at Miami Sept. 7th — Doesn’t seem like that’s changed –
To all — The Jets are going to kick the crap out of Miami — Chad’s knowledge of the Jets’ playbook is irrelevant — Chad’s inability to consistently lead his team to touchdowns is relevant — Pennington is Parcells’ sacrificial lamb placeholder until Tuna can get the Dolphins up to speed — To all the people who said “Minnesota would be a perfect fit for Chad” please ponder the fact that the Vikings had no interest in him — The Vikings’ goal is a Championship — You cannot win a Championship with Chad — That is the #1 reason why the Jets fans who did saw Chad as a colossal waste of time for this organization — We would rather have lost and moved on with Clemens — We certainly are happy to win now with Brett Favre — And the fact that Chad is a Dolphin now makes it all the more sweet — Chad will have his head handed to him Sept 7th — Jets 34 Dolphins 9
the salary structure is very complicated