Give Gholston Time
Although we’ve been distracted with the recent three ring circus, attention is starting to shift back to other players, and Vernon Gholston seems to be a player that is causing some grumbles.
Rookie LB Vernon Gholston, selected sixth overall, had another quiet game. He was credited with three tackles but didn’t make any big plays. The Jets are being patient but they have to be concerned …
No … no they don’t.
I’m not saying they are going to be the same, but Shawne Merriman who held out of camp ten days as a rookie and (who actually played in a 3-4 collegiately) didn’t start the first six weeks of his season came on strong earning DROY and a Pro Bowl appearance that season. Was Merriman a bust when he was inactive at the start of his rookie season? We all know what’s happened (other than the drug suspension) since then to Merriman’s career.
For months we’ve been saying that with two players in Pace and BT on the roster who already can start, Gholston will be worked in where appropriate. He’s going to learn and grow in this system, and might even surprise us by how far he’s come by the end of his first season.
Now’s not the time to panic and over-read into his progress. He’s a physical freak, but he’s always been a developmental player. The Jets already knew that when they picked him in April. They shouldn’t be surprised or more concerned now. Let’s let the kid pad up and play a few real games before we jump to conclusions.
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Eh, I still think he needs more intensity. Or at least a cool/ stupid dance like Merriman
im not concerned i knew gholston was gonna look like an idiot in the 2 preseason games and he will probalby look like an idiot next week but he is getting better last week and yesterday there was a huge difference he got better and in time he will be our version of shawn merriaman , you know what the jets should do to speed up gholsons learning , they should show them clips of demarcus ware and shwan merriaman he can learn alot form those two
It has nothing to do with intensity as he is doing more thinking than reacting out on the field because of the complexes of an NFL defense. Once he gets the scheme down, he will do more reacting than thinking, which you need to do as a LB. I am not worried at all since he is not slated to start anyways. Just give the kid some time, like Bassett said.
I trust the decision making, if they say he is the best pick, he is probalby the best pick. But all those great OLB (Merriman, Ware, Suggs etc.) all look like they want to kill someone on every play. Gholston looks like he is playing with his friends and is afraid to hurt someone. I would almost rather him go 100% and make a mistake then be so tentative.
Again, it is the preseason, and I am probably grasping at straws.
I don’t like Gholston, I think he’s totally an “athlete” and not a “football player”; whereas it seems Dustin Keller is both.
I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t like what I’m seeing, and I didn’t like what I heard or saw prior to the draft about him being a workout warrior who disappeared from a lot of games.
Not like they had much of a choice with the #6 pick; I was just pissed that he fell there instead of someone like J. or C. Long!
Especially with another linebacker going at 10. If NE picked a guy in the 4th round that ended up better than Gholston, it wouldn’t bother me– but if Mayo ends up better, it will drive me ape ****.
@ Dsmizzle
Well how much have you truly seen? Some practices and two preseason games?
Don’t forget:
-He missed some of the practices due to Ohio state rules and holdouts
-He’s basically learning a new position.
-He only started playing football in the sophomore year at HS
-It’s his first season in the NFL.
Give him time to grow. He’ll be fine.
Anthony, I’m with you 100% … the guy might be a pussy.cat. Seems like it so far. Anyone who has ever played football knows the type of guy who is really athletically talented … tall, strong, fast, and who was too much of a broad to use his talents to kill people.
Bad job by me. Sorry Basset, just delete it.
Smizzle notwithstanding, I think most posters would agree with your point.
Did you see him shove the Skin out of bounds? That’s strength! The rest will come.
What about Cody Spencer? He’s leading the team in sacks (2). And he went to Grapevine High School. And he likes things.
What about Marques Murrell? He’s been consistently pressuring the QB from the weak side and delivered the sack/hit of the pre-season on Collins.
Murrell does not look like a player to me. He did a lot of spin and double moves, and against a real NFL tackle I think he would get eaten up. Again, this is an opinion from the CBS telecast, I would be off base.
This is a unique situation because although Gholston is a 1st round pick, he’s not expected to make immediate contributions.
Just give him some time. I think we’re going to see the most impact in obvious pass rushing situations when he doesn’t have to worry about dropping into coverage or reading run/pass.
I’m still happy we picked him over Ryan and McFadden.
I am not concerned yet. Gholston did make progress from Game 1 to Game 2. He just needs to keep developing.
The Merriman comparison is well founded. Also, remember Mario Williams and his rookie year after being selected ahead of Reggie Bush? Let’s show a little patience please.
Anthony Dwight Freeny does a lot of spin moves so I don’t think it matters what you do as long as you are good. I don’t know how he’ll turn out but if it works, it works.
Its not the spin moves that I don’t think will work, its HIS spin moves. Just a simple eyeball test. Watch a replay, or the next game and key on him. The results were there, but how he got the results is what makes me skeptical. Hope I am wrong.
do we really have ANY CHOICE!?(but to give him time?)
billvv:
I obviously agree that Gholston needs to be given more time! I just hope that he proves me wrong after being given that time!
I also think while some players have a “nose for the ball”, it looks like he has a “nose against the ball”. Granted, I only really got to watch the first game closely, but he not only looked lost, he also looked like he didn’t want to be there.
I liked the pick b/c he was the most intruiging raw talent there at #6 … I was just hoping Vernon would do something that eased my fears about him being a weight-room warrior. He hasn’t done so yet, but as Bassett points out, it is very early in his career. Biggest concern: a mean streak and being more of a football player and less of an athlete might not be something that can be learned?
I was not a fan of the Gholston pick, but I think he needs time to develop and anything positive from him this season would be a tremendous bonus. He has to pick up a demanding position and he has to work on his pass-rushing moves.
As for Murrell, his sack was in the second quarter against the Redskins’ top back up LT, who was, I believe, none other than Jason Fabini. So, it wasn’t like he was going up against 3rd stringers who never played in the NFL before. I think Murrell is a sleeper and could be a good situational pass rusher, but with Gholston needing reps, I’m not sure that there’s a place for him on the team.
Smizzle, more often than not I agree with you, I’m just more willing to give him time to learn an unfamiliar position, one he has to think about. He came out as a junior, so he doesn’t have the maturity in either playing experience or life experience to easily handle it. I don’t doubt his desire to master this and I don’t think he’d give up. As he ‘gets it’ we’ll see more of him, and in the meantime Pace and Thomas are there. The Jets have the advantage of developing him over the season, which is just how we want it – long term development of quality players.
billvv:
I think he has about the best shot he’ll get with the JETS. If he were on a team that didn’t have guys who could start over him for a year or so, like Thomas and Pace, and he was thrown in there right away, then you’d be hearing “bust” already.
I’m not ready to drop that on him, but something tells me if he was forced to play, he’d make us all feel that way, at least this year! Here’s to hoping he can develop into a great football player and capitalize on his physical prowess!
How many players come from college to the pro’s and dominate in their first two pre-season games?
I don’t care if it is the first pick in the draft – the pro’s are a different level of play. Those of you who are calling him a bust — you know nothing about pro football. Gholston may take a year or two, to turn into the monster that he was in college – and he was a monster in college. Don’t you think that he must first play in a few regular season professional football games, before he learns how to play at this level? Don’t you think there is a learning curve? You are the same idiots who ran Nolan Ryan out of town.
harvlis
well put…
Look, nobody is calling him a bust, all of you out there who is “not worried” at all must have been sleeping. Although it is not fair to judge him based on training camp and 2 preseason games, but its fair to point out what is wrong with him so far. If you have been watching him through the first 2 preseason games, its easy to tell that his inexperience (even compared to fellow rookies he is less experienced) is definitely causing him to think rather than react. But lets go over some basics things before we start killing each other over here over he said she said.
1. Pay attention to when he is pursuit of the ball carrier. Is he taking all the right angles (shortest distance) to the ball carrier? From what I have noticed he has not been. I understand he will get better with time, but this was mentioned about him during draft time and still holds true.
2. Strength alone will not get him a sack, hopefully he will learn some moves or use that enormous arms to hulk smash his way through the offensive line. Technique!
3. From the way he speaks, great character guy, but I believe he needs to be more ruthless when on the battle field, hopefully he is holding his feelings back due to inexperience rather than not having any.
I understand that the guy needs time to show us what he is really capable of, but lets not go as far out an say that he had a disadvantage of all other rookies of ‘09 as well as prior, there were many Ohio state players to be impact players on the NFL, there has been many hold outs, please, those are not legitamit excuses. (but learning a new position is)
To conclude,
although I am worried, I am not going too crazy about it because we don’t need him to be an immediate impact player, but to say that we must give him the cold shoulder because he is not needed right now is absurd. If you do well you get praise, if you don’t you get critisized and that is part of LIFE and not just sports.
There is definate growing pains and in time I’m sure he will improve…he does have such potential…however, during Saturday nights game I did see Gholston apply some pressure on Todd Collins by pushing OL Samuels into the pocket on one particular play to rush an incomplete pass. In addition, on a Redskins running play to the left side of the line for a significant gain, I did see Gholston get obviously held which wasn’t called. I know, I know… you could call holding on every play…welcome to the NFL. Give hime some time to adapt and he will reak havic in the backfield!
by the way, the reason I was satisfied with this choice is because he is worth the risk and definitely had the most raw talent rather than skill at that point. I would have loved to have been able to drop down but no one wanted Gholston badly enough to move up. If it were up to me, I would have picked Keith Rivers out of USC (even knowing about his hold out) but this would have been considered a reach because of where he was slotted. But hey, I support Gholston and am looking forward to seeing progress each week
Pretty much with the 6th pick we didnt have many choices! If we didnt take VG guess who probably would of taken him The Patriots, and they would turn him into a beast that would be haunting our QB’s for the next 5-10 yrs. Our other choice for that sixth pick i would of liked was CB Leodis McKelvin who went to Buffalo. He would of given us another great CB to of been paired with Revis. THose two guys were our main choices.
VG has only been in camp for a short time now 3 weeks or so, so lets give him some time before we jump on him for being a bust. He is definitely not playing instictive right now, it is clear he is thinking about his defensive scheme rather than reacting. But there was a clear difference in his play to me from the first preseason game to his second. Thought he played alright and was in the right position in most plays. One key play that made him look bad, i thought he got held by the O-lineman – believe this was the second series, when it was 3rd and long and Betts had a long run around VG to pick up the firstdown.
At the time of the draft i supported the Gholston pick and i support it now. It was well known at the time of the draft he was raw and it would take time developing him. 2 games into the preseason he is still on that projected course, i dont see the cause for concern (or 23 comments to this stupid article). We drafted Gholston for where he could be in a few years, not a few preseason games. He may not pan out, but to gamble the 6th pick in last years draft(the drop off point for blue chip talent in the draft may i add) on someone who could potentially be a force of nature (Merriman and Ware would go top 2 in a 2005 draft redo). Terrorizing pass rushers are one of the rarest and most sought after commodities in the NFL (read the blind side), worth much more than the 6th pick in this years draft.
What I’m trying to say is relax, its not like we passed on Dan Marino with the pick, its a calculated risk.
Sure Gholston isn’t bitingthe heads off pidgeons pregame, but if anyone deserves the ire of Jets fans for playing soft its “El Matador” D’Brick Ferguson. He plays with the aggression of a eunuch. It’s not his second preseason game, its 3 years later and the guy drafted 26 spots after him, Mangold, has already blossomed into one of the better players at his position.
Stop being pessimist Jets fans and give Gholston a couple of years before casting judgement on him. Lighen up, we got Favre!
Brad he did get held on that play but he’ll learn ways to release from blocks. And I noticed he covered a lot of receivers and was constantly trying to figure out if he should rush or chase a receiver.
Off topic though, the O line looks pretty good. Woody looked good, and during the replays I watched I noticed that the line often got to the 3rd tier and could have blocked a third man had they not seemed to be running through the plays as if it were preseason. Mangold and Faneca really do a great job. And Dbrick doesn’t look bad. He moves pretty well. He did get lifted by Taylor on one play and Faneca had good help to give that one extra second.
There were tons of substitutions on D. Harris and Barton seem to be there every down. Barton just keeps impressing. If he is the 3rd best LB I’d say they are solid at LB.
Harvlis:
I didn’t say Gholston was a bust; I said I’m worried about him being a bust!
I agree 100% with “All Things New York” because he articulated my point better: I’m worried about Gholston but I didn’t call him a bust after a few weeks of practice and 2 preseason games!
If you aren’t a little bit worried about his not showing any flashes, whatsoever, then I agree you’re sleeping. Lets not forget that rookies are capable of showing flashes. Lets also not forget the “Over/Under” stuff where people here were saying he might get 8-10 sacks. I’d LOVE to eat my words on this, but I’m not sure he’ll ever do that, let alone this year.
Look, my honest analysis is that he doesn’t look like he is cut from the same mold as the guys he is compared to (Merriman, Ware, et al). Athletically he’s probably better.
One thing I do agree with, however, is that he seems like a great guy with a great head on his shoulders (in terms of being a good person/a Tangini-type). Football-wise, not so much.
But I think its a little absurd to say I know nothing about professional football simply because I’m worried, and always was worried, about Gholston!
I’m just repeating much what has already been posted, but two pre-season games is a ridiculously small sample to start grading a guy. I remember Parcell’s used to always talk about rookies coming in thinking their talent would just overwhelm everyone, only to have the deer in the headlights look for 6 weeks of training camp as they suddenly realized they didn’t know ****.
As many of you already posted, the reason he looks slow and un-aggressive is because HE HAS NO FREAKING IDEA WHAT HE IS DOING RIGHT NOW. He’s lost, and his play pretty much shows it. Anyone on this list who has played football at any level knows that when you are sitting there pre-snap trying to think about what your responsibilities are instead of just *doing* it, you’re done. Finished. You have no chance.
Once the season starts, I would bet dollars to donuts that the Jets D staff will only use him in certain packages, with minimal responsibilities outside of rushing the passer. As the season goes along and he becomes more familiar with the defense (and therefore just reacts instead of thinking), he’ll be on the field more and more.
Let’s give the guy a season before we start opining that we’re “worried”. If he still looks this way in December, I’ll be officially worried.
All you guys who are worried or concerned are crazy! The guy is in the first month of his NFL career, is learning a new position in a new defensive scheme, and the word bust is already being used?
He hasn’t even stepped on the field yet for a real game. No one has any idea what they are telling him to do in these pre-season games, and yet if he dosen’t look like Lawrence Taylor people are concerned. GIVE HIM A CHANCE. At least wait until the end of his first full season before judging him!
So you are saying we shouldn’t talk about it?
Isn’t this a football blog?
If you have a feeling about a guy you shouldn’t say anything because its “early”?
Okay, lets talk about buttertarts. What is your favorite recipe?
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m certainly not suggesting that we can’t or shouldn’t talk about it. I just don’t agree with you, that’s all. :=)
I think trying to draw conclusions about a guy after two pre-season games in which the guy is trying to not only learn life in the NFL, but learn a new position, is a tad unfair. Just my opinion, that’s all.
I’m not quite concerned with being “fair”. I’m expressing my opinion based upon my observations.
We are all sometimes right and often wrong.
I’m not a Gholston “hater”, I’m a Gholston “worrier”. Once again, my concern is not based on a few preseason games and a few weeks of practice. Those practices and these games made my concerns worse.
Regardless, Harvlis, even though it is far to early to throw labels around like “bust” for Gholston or “great player” for Keller … whats the point of a blog? Also, I didn’t throw that label at Gholston, you did it on my behalf! Not cool!
I think it’s too early to discuss buttertarts. Maybe in October we’ll have a better idea as to which recipes work.
DSmizzle, I hear you. You want to see more effort than Gholston has shown, so far. There are a few reasons why you should not be concerned. He is learning a new position in a new league. He is more concerned with learning, at this point, than with performing. Whereas, you want to see him blow by the OT and crush the QB, he is more concerned with learning what plays come from what formations and what the QB’s tendencies are. He is still learning what his assignments are. Does he cover the TE, fill the hole, or bull rush the OT. As he knows that he will not be cut, he does not have the same motivation to show off for the coaching staff (and fans) as some other rookies might have. We have all seen great College ball players not make it in the pros so, I understand your concern but, give him a year before you start worrying about him. If he has not taken his game to the next level, by this time next year, then you can start worrying.
Harvlis:
I understand your point of view as to why you think we need more time to evaluate him (a point I agree with you on), but I’ll never agree that its too early to start discussing it on a blog, lest you be called an uninformed fan who knows nothing about pro football!
So while I understand your point, my opinion isn’t based on the fact I think he’s not “trying”. That isn’t the issue. I’ve had issues with his not having a great football sense for a while now. Starting in 10th grade is no excuse! Thats more than enough time to learn football. In point of fact, I don’t recall learning anything of substance about football until about 9th grade. 8th grade football, and freshmen teams, are a good place to learn substantive football?
My memories of 8th grade football are all about the fastest kids running one way, and then cutting all the way back accross the field and stuff like that.
I hope Gholston develops, but I wanted to get Mayo because he has a great motor and intensity. The jury is still out and I think Gholston will be a fine security guard for the players entrance for the next 4 years. He is a monster.