Link: Hutch Lays the Smackdown
For those that didn’t hear, the Jets announced last night at 11:30PM that today was the last day that camp would be open at Hofstra.
Dave Hutchinson shames the Jets for their last minute flight from Hofstra at NJ.com:
What was the big secret? What type of competitive advantage is withholding that information giving the Jets?
Why not let the fans — many of whom travel great distances — know last week that today was the final day so they could’ve made plans to come to Hofstra to see Favre up close and personal? Also, the team is moving to Florham Park on Sept. 2nd after a 40-year stint at Hofstra. Why wouldn’t the organization have some sort of Fan Appreciation Day?
Instead, the Jets try to steal out of town like the Colts did when they left Baltimore several decades ago. They only thing missing from this shameful move by the Jets are the Mayflower Moving Vans.
This does seem cold, but personally the media parade now that Favre is there has gotten a bit tiresome. Yesterday, Favre’s text buddy Chris Mortensen, along with SalPal and a few other national press were at practice, and the whole thing is just starting to distract from the team.
So did the Jets make the right move in terms of endearing themselves to their fans, by closing down quick? Probably not. But this front office doesn’t seem too concerned with those things if it makes them more competitive for the season … which would endear them to the fans a lot more than this incident.
Filed under: Main Page
Summary of players let go because they did not fit Mangini’s system
1. JOHN ABRAHAM
2. KEVIN MAWAE
3. PETE KENDALL
4. KAREEM McKENZIE
5. JONATHAN VILMA
6. CHAD PENNINGTON
7. DWAYNE ROBERTSON
8. ERIC COLEMAN
There is a very good reason why form Parcels, Belicheat , Groh and even Edwards we end up with the Juveniles.
Nikolas,
You can take McKenzie off your list, Bradaway and Herm didn’t want to pay him!
The good news is that it will be over soon!!
Blah, blah, blah….Let’s play football.
Billvv……I do not think so!! fasten your seat belt
I see one above average non injury prone player on that list. We’re football fans not 6yr old girls. Quit whining. If we lose then we whine. I for one wont miss Robertson, Coleman under performing. I never missed Jon Abraham taking plays off and sitting out big games. As much as I will miss Chad I will not miss another injury filled year. Every team dismisses loud, vocal, team leaders when they get a new coach that is why Mawae is gone (and other reasons).
Wow you people dig for something to complain about. How about the additions of Revis, Harris, Mangold (Who will give us ten more years than Mawae would have), Keller and having the guts to start Cotchery over Mcdroppings? All coaches have flaws. I have been going to Hofstra since I was little. I’m not upset that my team will have better facilities. Hofstra was a poor set up when I was 9 and only got worse.
i dont see what the big deal is…we all knew they were moving…does it matter if it was at night or morning… their still moving…so,get over it…it seems like alot of you guys just want a reason to batch and moone…cry and complain about every little thing…grow up…god bless…let me stop before i upset some1…
JustGreenGuy….Revis,Harris,Keller could have beem drafted withought affecting anything else.
For the players we let go we got Mangold and a 4th rounder from the skins, a conditional 4th from the saints, and a 6th at best from the Broncos. Six of the players we let go were 1st rounders and extremely good.
The selling point was….we were rebuilding …only to change course “on a blink of an eye” and started paying millions and draft picks for a SHOW, not football.
If we were not rebuilding then what is the point of having an inexperienced GM and Coach?
Common guys..you are not soooo BLIND.
Dakar…Hello ..it is the pattern!!! No accountability no respect.They do not give a..hit about the Fans.
um…what system did chad not fit in??
oh yeah…the “weak armed-kill-your-recievers-cant-throw-an-out” system, yeah…ur right…we need to collect guys like that not replace them with an MVP type QB
abraham sat out a few of the biggest games of the year at the end of his jet life…yeah..we need more team guys like him…
erick coleman didnt do…anything…as in he kinda sucked.
wow..mangini really needs to re-evaluate his “system”.
please use ur head before making a list like that….especially considering it had nothing to do with the topic that you posted on. =)
yeah…weak that they didnt do a farewell day or something for hofstras loyalists……sometimes they are pretty absent minded over there.
Nikolas- Vilma was good. Not in a 3-4. Harris is good in a 3-4.
End of list. Abraham disapeared in the ATL. I never saw anything “special” from Robertson. The line moves were regretable, but such is business. It is a shame they left Hofstra this way, but if you had Chris Mortenson shoved up your backside you would try to escape too.
klecko…Oh..I see you did not like the fact that Abraham did not play injured for your entertainment……while Chad played with a torn rotator cuff, screwing his career..so that you will call him “weak arm-kill-your receivers”… You are such a hypocrite. I bet you are also one of those who cheered last year his injury.
JustAGreenGuy…..I did not know that you benefit from these business. I do not, and I do not care about Woody’s business. But I can see why stupid moves from a football persepctive are called BUSINESS.
Nikolas – what does your post have to do with the original post?
would you really go back in time and trade Abraham straight up for Mangold?
would you not try to replace D-Rob as your NT?
Given that you are pretty much always negative, what POSITIVE things would YOU have done after 2007 to try & improve this team?
i dont care about the move or how they announced it…and if you fans from new york hate it so much then move to NJ…or sell your tickets…im sure there are alot of fans in NJ who would love to have season tix…
as for all the moves tangini made since their arrival…god bless…cuz i haven’t been this excited since parcells…the team hasn’t looked this good on paper for about a decade…and im sure they will look just as good during games…these are my thoughts and if you dont like them…so what…
This is a joke. We will see on the field. If you support all the bums you have on that list go cheer for Miami. I got in a fist fight in support of Chad’s noodle arm and his moxie. No one hurt more when he got cut, but I cheer for the team and no one on that list is on this team.
Oh and Bradaway is an idiot for trading up to draft a DT with lousy knees. He must have been thinking like AL Davis. Denver can have Robertson.
Toon……
ONE: The post has to do with the pattern of incompetence and irresponsibility. I know there a few, I thought easy steps, missing to make the connection.
TWO: If I had kept Mawae, I would not need to trade Abraham for Mangold. The argument then was..well we are rebuilding..we look for youth! In essence we replaced Mawae(experience) for Mangold(youth) and we gave Abraham away for nothing!!!
Three: If I knew that I have to get rid of all these quality players, for almost nothing, in order to fit the only system that my inexperienced coach knows, I would not have hired this coach. But before going there, I would not have promoted a capologist to GM of football operations.
Mawae will be retired when Mangold is still going to Hawaii every year
I agree with you that Mangini’s system was too rigid in 2006 & 2007, however, if JV & DR play well for NO & Den we do get some decent draft picks back.
stop living in the past and live in the NOW…i say good ridance to all those players on that list and im HAPPY with who we have as their replacements…bigger stronger and just as fast…
if not faster
Toon…Sure, something will be salvaged, but I have zero confidence on how these people run the team.
Nicolas, I repeat: Blah, blah, blah….Let’s play football.
Hutch has had a problem ever since Herm left. Herm gave him a ton of access. He also was a HUGE Chad fan so that does not help. Sounds like sour grapes to me.
Nikolas, if you want to use the players we didn’t keep as a sign that the apocalypse is near, try this list on for size:
Ty Law
Lawyer Milloy
Asante Samuel
Ty Poole
Randall Gay
Ted Washington
Keith Traylor
Roosevelt Colvin
Willie McGinest
Roman Phifer
Corey Dillon
Deion Branch
David Givens
David Patten
Donte Stallworth
Daniel Graham
Damien Woody
Joe Andruzzi
Adam Vinatieri
Look familiar? Those are just some of the guys our rivals to the north have let go in the past 5 years. Almost every one of them played a big role in the Pats’ success this decade, and more than 3/4 of them got paid big-time by their next team. Boy, those defections have really crippled Brady and Co, huh?
You can’t measure the progress of any team simply by looking at who they lost. We’ve continually added pieces that fit our current system; that’s what new regimes are brought in to do. The fact that Tangini has stuck to their plan is a good thing, and how you’re trying to twist that into a negative is beyond me.
Nikloas….You seem to have a talent for typing. The problem is almost everything I read of yours is not accurate. I have already proved your stupid list to be crap. Your J-Abe theory is foolish. They did not want to pay a huge contract for a 9 game a season OLB/DE. Have you seen what he has produced in Atlanta? He never plays.
Nikolas…..Do yourself a favor, just sit back and read everything I post. I love to educate dumb fans like yourself………If the Jets go 5-11 this year then run your mouth.
Great post pound4pound!
Drew…..5-11? Is this how high your bar is?
Whoever says the Jets do not care about their fans.. hmm lets see.. this whole article.. does it really matter? Since when did the fans care about anything else but winning. The Jets organization understands what will happen with the new stadium (PSL’s) and decided to spend a TON of money on new players, better practice facility to attract free agents, and in my theory, I believe Johnson did that because of the damage it will do to the fans pockets, therefore he put out the best possible team and even took some damage to his own wallet. Can’t respect that? Go be a fan of the Giants
brett favre
alan faneca
kris jenkins
thomas jones
“hellooooo!! you play to win the game!!!”
Pound 4 Pound thank you for that list. Man I hate the Pats.
Nikolas
You have got to be kidding me about your list of players, I’m not sure if you are actually upset by some of the guys we let go. Let me ask you something..
If you were the NEW HEAD COACH of the New York Jets at the time of Mangini’s hire, would you rather lose with the team that you built, or lose with a team that someone else built? Clearly the best 2 players that were let go was Pete Kendall and Jonathan Vilma.
The whole Pete Kendall situation was very difficult and was a lose lose situation so I will not comment on that.
Jonathan Vilma was great in the 4-3 and obviously had no place in the 3-4, and if you want to contest that point, do no read much further. Now, lets say you hold on to that type of potential for the remainder of his contract, he obviously wouldn’t come back to a team he didn’t fit into and if you decided to trade later then his value drops significantly. I think Tangini worked out a great deal for the Jets considering the serious injury he had 1 season before he got traded. This is a potential 2nd round pick for a player that didnt fit the system, came off of a serious injury/surgery, and a guy that was known to be shopped by the Jets to other teams. Thats heck of a deal considering all of the different variables.
This is why you are a fan, and not a GM, HC. Your evaluation is purely based on your emotional attachment to players of the Herm Edwards era.
Each team does things like this when they get a new HC or GM!
dwayne robertson was terrible, vilma had a firghtening knee injury and still isnt back on the field. was john abraham in the pro bowl last year? the falcons paid a 1st rounder and huge contract for him. chad was one of the greatest qbs in Jets history and was only let go because we brought in possibly the greatest qb in nfl history.
remember Tangini traded up to get revis and harris (look at what cb’s were available where the jets were originally drafting last year!), would bradway have done that? he traded up to get dewayne robertson when he couldve stood pat and drafted some tandem of troy polamalu, larry johnson, willis mcgahee, eric steinback. with their next pick they took victor hobson directly infront on anquan bolden and osi umenyiora. this is the guy you are pining for? how is herm working out for the chiefs?
any Jets fan hating on Tangini is just stupid.
Hey Basset,
enough with this crap about writers from other cities and even our own city bashing the Jets organization and fans. How about we get some info on how training camp is going, maybe try to get some interviews? Something the fans can talk about other than PSL, other writers, and Brett Favre.
Roof, couldn’t have said it better. If you are not happy at least about the draft picks these guys put together collectively, you are absolutely out of your minds. Maybe you don’t like the 3-4 system, but you cannot deny the talent that these guys have been able to develop/draft. Kerry Rhodes, Leon Washington, Jerricho Cotchery to name a few.
Even Wallace Wright and Brad Smith, they aren’t stars, but they are the best gunners on special teams in the whole league. Yes, I said it. Remember there are 3 facets to this game.
Tangini tandem is gutsy and bold, its my way or the highway. They’ve made some really good trades (as in value, conditional picks) and I don’t know about you, but how many Gm/HC tandem in NY has had as much balls as these guys in the past decade. (not counting baseball, no cap means no risk)
I find my self in a very difficult position… I should be excused for failing to defend my message before a group of cheerleaders with hairy legs, besides it is such an unattractive spectacle. But for the last time….
Guys, it is not me….I did not invent the idea that this FO is incompetent. They did, but I am afraid that your desire to see things differently supersedes reality. I am sorry… If my arguments ruin your optimism , but eh…look at the bright side of things.
If the mercenaries to not pan out, we can have a lot of laughs; Imagine Mangini running penalty laps, because he did not learn Favre’s playbook. Imagine players running all over the field having no idea were the ball is going, then turn the camera in Mangini’s face. Imagine Woody eating a sandwich on the sidelines.
Common worst case scenario we will have fun.
Just like morale and chemistry are important at the office, you can’t hope to lead a team to the promised land if there’s rancor, dissention, distraction, or disrespect.
many good points have been made about injuries, system misfits, etc., but i’ll make a point about everyone from supposed: locker room lawyers, media mavericks, contract extortionists, and/or independent freelancers.
this regime understands that it needs everyone to buy-in to win and will not be undermined by negative elements.
First of all, getting rid of Mawae, Kendall, McKenzie, Pennington, and Coleman had nothing to do with the system. They were either overpaid, underperforming, or forced their way out (Kendall). The only ones that were system-related were Vilma, Robertson, and I guess you could argue Abraham. Also, before you complain about all the players they’ve let go, look at the players they’ve brought in. Nearly all of them are upgrades or at least comparable. Which 8 guys would you rather have, the ones on the right or the ones on the left?:
1. JOHN ABRAHAM –> Calvin Pace
2. KEVIN MAWAE –> Nick Mangold
3. PETE KENDALL –> Alan Faneca
4. KAREEM McKENZIE –> Damien Woody
5. JONATHAN VILMA –> David Harris
6. CHAD PENNINGTON –> Brett Favre
7. DWAYNE ROBERTSON –> Kris Jenkins
8. ERIC COLEMAN –> Eric Smith
Player turnover is inevitable in any sport. Rather than complain about all the guys we’ve lost, you should be thankful that the front office takes every opportunity possible to improve the team and put the best players on the field. The goal is to win, right?
Steve.. I would like the players on the left side. But my point is that if the FO was just competent we could also have some from the right side.
steve
amen to that…
nikolas, you are not a creature of logic, perhaps your fanship should follow herm to kansas city, maybe Tangini can get a conditional pick for you.
Nikolas, it’s not that your posts are negative, it’s that they’re ill-informed. People have already pointed out that Kareem was stupidly let go by Harm and Bradway. So, that was wrong. Coleman was cut for performance reasons, not because of the system. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I haven’t noticed that he’s starting for another NFL team. So, that was wrong. Kendall was cut because the FO did not want to give into the demands of an aging LG with delusions of grandeur. Again, not a system issue and not a Mangini issue. So, that was wrong. Abraham and Mawae were, respectively, traded and cut because of the salary cap situation left by Harm and Bradway. I like Mawae, he was one of my favorite Jets and will be in the HOF as the best downfield blocking center of all time (although, he wasn’t great at the point of attack, hence C-Mart’s short-yardage woes), but his salary cap figure was high, he was coming off of an injury and he was in his mid-30s…all reasons not to commit big money to him. That he was replaced by Mangold makes your comment here more than just wrong. As for Abraham, you just can’t be serious. He basically said that his contract was more important than gutting it out in a playoff game. What an insult to a team that had Joe Namath, who played on crippled knees and always gave 100%.
As for Chad, it wasn’t that he didn’t fit the system, it was because he had hit his ceiling as to what he could do as an NFL QB and he’s injury prone. I like Chad and I was repeatedly flamed on this blog for saying that KC was not qualified to be the starter and Chad gave the Jets the best opportunity to win. But, Favre is just an exponentially superior QB. Honestly, name a GM in football that given the choice between Chad and Favre would choose Chad? Again, not a system issue, a performance issue.
Now, we get to the system guys: Vilma and Robertson. As soon as Mangini was hired I posted that the 3-4 would not work with Vilma or D-Rob because both were undersized for what their roles would be and D-Rob, because of his knee condition, was ill-suited for NG. So, it was no surprise that both are gone. Here, in principle, I agree with you. Coaches always install their defensive systems even if the talent dictates a 3-4 over a 4-3 or vice versa. It was this same logic that led to Farrior becoming a Steeler and Cowart a Jet under Harm. But, I liked the Parcells 3-4 and I thought Harm should never have changed it. Also, I thought Vilma was exposed as weak at the point of attack…something we saw in the 4-3 when Buffalo came to town and McGahee steamrolled Vilma. I still think D-Rob would’ve been a star as the weakside DT in the 4-3. But, remember, Harm let Jason Ferguson go and D-Rob faced the same problem in the 4-3 as he did in the 3-4…an inability to shed double-teams. So, while you’re right with these guys, under the 4-3, the Jets would’ve had to get a guy like Jenkins anyhow, meaning a lot of cap room devoted to the DL, which is the weakness of the 4-3, and I personally doubt whether Vilma will ever make another Pro Bowl because MLBs who get steamrolled at the point of attack and don’t get sacks generally aren’t Pro Bowlers.
Now, killing Mangini because of the switch from the 4-3 to the 3-4 is silly because EVERY coach installs his system. As for rebuilding, isn’t that what the Jets have done? I would like better 2nd string players on the OL, but name a position manned with a veteran (other than on the OL) and there’s at least one young bench guy with promise ready to step in. Heck, with Ratliff’s emergence (a great find by Mangini/Tannenbaum), I’m even hopeful about QB depth.
We still have to see the on-field performance of the team, but there’s no arguing that every replacement move the Jets have made looks good on paper.
ignore Nikolas.
The Jets did the right thing by closing down the media circus. If the Jets win any fan will forgive the team for not having open practice.
I know guys like Nikolas. They suck……. They will also be the first to get the pom-poms out when the Jets play well. If any of his data were correct he would be able to defend himself. The list he provided for us Jet fans was so ignorant he loses all credibility.
Nikolas:
Virtually everyone on your list would have had their contract expire or be about to expire, so if the Jets wanted to keep them, they would have to extend the contracts. Therefore, they wouldn’t have had the cap space to sign any of the replacements they got.
So when you say they should be able to retain these guys and get some of their replacements you are being unrealistic. Especially when Mangini inherited a bad cap situation.
By the way – what has changed since you made these comments?
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Nikolas
I have been one of the harshest critics of this FO, I never kiss up and I want people in authority to be held responsible….but when they do something right credit must be given…After all, this is the purpose of criticism to point to people what you think are their inadequacies and errors in hope that they correct them.
Last year I killed them because they let Pete Kendall go, because I thought that if the inexperienced Clark did not hold they would have ruined our season. It did happen and they learned.
But this year they did the best out of what was available. We can point out the probable imperfections of Faneca or Woody but there is no question that they are SO MUCH BETTER than what we had. And DROSEATWORK is right. The OL is the key to any offense. Behind a solid line a below average QBs can look great. Those who question our QBs whether that is Chad or Kellen (although Chad is still the man) they do not realize that with last years OL even Brady and Manning would have looked terrible.
Regarding the money the team paid to fix the line to me is a mute point. They had the money and they spend it to improve the team and this is all that matters.
From Link: Yay … Someone Nationally Gets It!!, 2008/03/21 at 9:33 AM
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Nikolas
When I thought I was out and done with the Jets …they did the unthinkable and just Pulled me in .
Chris Jenkins, Alan Faneca, Damien Woody, Calvin Pace (4 starters in positions of need)
and ( 2 more from the Draft)?
I am back. Congratulations Jets’ Fans.
From OL Damien Woody Signs With Jets, 2008/03/03 at 6:06 PM
2008/03/03 Approve | Unapprove | Spam | Delete
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Nikolas
Guys what about those Giants! I am now convinced that this organization is just stupid. I am going to donate all my JETS stuff to the poor kids in Guatemala , like the Patriots did with their 19-0 t-shirts.
To some of you I do wish good luck, and to the others .. nothing because I think they deserve this organization.
Basset, I will continue to check your site despite the fact that I am no longer a Jets’ fan.
From Buzz: Jets Allow Jon Vilma to Seek Trade, 2008/02/23 at 1:15 AM
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Well that was well said SD99 but it’s for naught. I don’t think the people that post by calling others delusional and basically saying they are narrow-minded, kool-aid drunk and completely subjective have the introspection to realize that they are exactly what they claim others to be.
And thanks Bent. We now know someone is not taking their meds properly.
And I’d like to thank my wife….yea…Morgan Fairchild!
Bent gets a gold star!!!!!
can someone please explain to me how getting rid of eric coleman falls on the list of bad FO moves?
clearly nikolas wants to be “that guy” on thejetsblog.com, and hes obviously done a great job at it. im glad Bent brought his inconsistency to this board
You guys are wasting your time trying to talk sense to Nikolas. He’s a crusader, he’s not happy unless he is trying to defend some ridiculous point, that no ene else seems to have.
Some people may not agree with the Favre move, but agree or not you have to admire the way the FO handled the whole thing, but not Nikolas, he calls Tangini incompitent.
Like I said, you’re wasting your time.
ramble is right……nikolas…facts are facts.
chad tough as they come, never said he wasnt. doesnt mean we keep him over brett favre….
and no way did i cheer the injury…not that kind of moron.
abraham was supposed to play in that steeler game and was a sunday scratch….pretty wesk…..and what have we heard about him since he went to atlanta…..injuries..shocker.
facts are facts….and that list of guys who didnt fit the system had at least 3 wrong names. those guys were not dealt b/c they didnt fit a system….
I attended the last open practice at Hofstra today. Some observations:
!) Clemens ran a lap with the backup center (DeVan?) for another botched snap! Ay Carumba!
2)Farve marched right down the field on the 1:59 minute drill, throwing nice passes to J-Co in the process.
3) Brett Ratliff made another long pass completion to Marcus Henry (my guess was 35+ yards). Marcus had a good practice overall I thought.
4) Eric Ainge is totaly lost. Throwing at guys feet and taking forever to go through his progressions.
5)Chatman made some nice cuts and runs similar to what he showed in the Redskin game last week.
6) Off to the side during the special teams practice, Farve and Coles (who was “participating” but not really practicing) were seen working on some “chemistry” tosses.
7) I don’t know if this is usual, but Nugent, Dearth, & Graham were seen practicing the fake field goal play where Graham tosses it over his shoulder blindly to Nugent. It looked better in college.
8)Nugent looked good on FGs (unlike last weekend!)
9)Dustin Keller and D. Lowery are the real deal! But you probably knew that already…
10)Vernon didn’t make any stand-out plays that I saw. But I find it is tough to assess the Def. without any real tackling going on.
All in all, it was a beautiful day to be hangin’ with the green and white! I’m gonna miss days like these…
Bent…….
What changed? Well….it is not so much “change” as it is the realization that I was betrayed by my own desire to believe. “I was too young to die” I thought…, and it did not take much, just a few good moves correcting past mistakes, only to realize with the Favre move that “I was too old to rock and roll”. You are the English guy….you know the song.
Your question forces me to repeat myself, because I assume that you have not read all my posts. Since I have plenty of football life left, why should I root for a classless organization?
Bent…. I have said that I can only root for something worth rooting for, not an empty symbol. If the means justify the end then I do not see why you all do not root for the PATS….or if it is just nostalgia of the yesteryears, or neurotic bragging rights, to me are not enough and I have no interest whatsoever.
Chad personified the concept “team”, “sacrifice”, “hard work”, “leadership”, “success”, “bravery” and he transcended these qualities to the whole organization. Mangini repeated them….but
Our FO shares none of those qualities and the proof is in the pie. They threw him and thousands of fans under the bus, so that they can sell tickets and make money. They decided that if they are not good in football, they can at least try some entertainment.
Now, where is your logic? Do you really believe that Favre is going to give you the Trophy?
I guess you answer is “no”. So where is the gain? The loss is that no player will play hurt for this FO. We will create several John Abrahams and you cannot fault them, the players are no stupid; and if the FO had locker-room credibility problems last year, this year they will have no locker-room, no credibility and no problems.
Sincerely
The voice of reason
Its late Nikolas…go back to bed…you’re oviously exhausted! :-)
“Bent gets a gold star!!!!!”
Another Brit winning gold? This is too easy…
Anyway, Mr. Voice of Reason, I haven’t actually given an opinion on the Favre trade, but I will make a few points:
I don’t see how that move undoes the other moves which you seemed happy to call good moves at the time.
If the trade doesn’t bring us a trophy, the risk involved in terms of draft picks is not that great and the short term cap flexibility is unlikely to have a long term effect, so it’s not like they “sold the farm”.
I love Chad too and it’s a shame he’s gone, but him leaving doesn’t tear the heart and soul out of the Jets team because we (the fans) are the heart and soul of the Jets.
Your apparent characterization of Favre as some evil succubus who is only here to serve his own means is wrong. He’s a gamer with too much pride to just collect money and not play to win.
Love or hate the deal, Favre will be fun to root for. What’s done is done, so I don’t see why any Jets fan couldn’t just enjoy it.
Anyway, I don’t have a problem with your views, although I’d prefer it if you wouldn’t call anyone that has an opposing view “delusional” and stuff like that as it seems to be rubbing a lot of people up the wrong way (and likewise everyone else shouldn’t take the bait / dish out similar opinions). If your intention is just to ruffle feathers for your own anthropological experimentation, I think we’d all prefer you to conduct these tests elsewhere.
If you came out and said “I don’t think it would feel right to root for Favre” or “I don’t have a lot of confidence in the front offices previous moves because I thought the Favre trade was such a risk that I am concerned they don’t know what they’re doing” or something like that then I reckon this would create a much better dialogue than something like “all you guys will be sorry when the incompentence of the front office is revealed for all to see” and “you are delusional if you think Favre is going to improve the Jets playoff chances” but maybe that just me.
Bent…..I have bad news for you…….you have been disqualified. Your British Gold metal now must be delivered to the IOC, you have tested positive!
Too many steroids, what do you expect?
But once and for all….since people, like you, misrepresent my views ,let me clarify a few things, and I hope that you read them carefully.
I do not consider Favre to be Evil, I think he is exciting to watch and as I have stated in previous posts it is debatable whether or not he is an upgrade over Chad.. for NOW and for THIS TEAM. (as Favre said… all the talent of the world means nothing if there is no chemistry, because that what a TEAM is…)
Now,..when this FO made the move to acquire Favre, either they knew that a TEAM is about chemistry or not.
If they did not ..then this is a clear sign of incompetence and there is no need to elaborate further. But…..
If they did…and cared about football, then they should have known the following;
a. The chemistry (or TEAM) must be developed rapidly because this is not a long-term investment, Brett is 39 years old and comes with a lot of reservations and second thoughts and he may give us just one season.
b. Chad has been a leader in this team and cutting him, this late in the season, may divide the locker-room.
C. What kind of message do we send to the players, about our core values? : Sacrifice, preparation, hard work, etc…are they going to perceive them as Lip Service ? And then what are the consequences.., do we create conditions for the proliferation of the John Abrahams of the world? Under such an environment is it possible to build a TEAM (chemistry) and especially rapidly?
d. We have spent money this offseason to upgrade the team. This is a playoff caliber TEAM, at least on paper. Chad has been one of the best QBs in the history of this organization, when healthy and with a good team he gives us a chance, he has proven to be a winner but he may not last long..his best years are behind him. We need to develop a QB, preferably KC, to show to the Team that he is better than Chad and gives them a better Chance. But KC has not done that…
e. Given the strength of the TEAM, the acquisition of Favre most likely will cost us a 3rd or a 2nd rounder.
Can he take this TEAM to the Super-Bowl? Because if not…then we have created a total mess. Loss of a draft pick and an alienated locker-room that can take this franchise back for years!
Bent…..I know that they have thought about all these things…as so many other franchises did when they learned about the availability of Favre. So what do you think was the overweighting factor?
Woody’s PSLs! An organization with a plan is not looking for band-aid solutions, period!
” I think we’d all prefer you to conduct these tests elsewhere.
I emphasize your quote, because I want you to remeber it…, and do not forget .. you have been on the wrong side of things before …Bent
Sincerely
The Voice of Reason
See, that’s better already. You explained your position much better. I agree with you. Favre as an upgrade over Chad is debatable. Some fall on one side of the debate, some fall on another. Personally I’m just hoping to enjoy seeing what happens. Similarly, we shall see whether the FO prove to be incompetent, but I’m going to hope they won’t and continue to root for the team.
I apologise if I misread your views on Favre, I read so many comments, that it gets hard to keep track of who thinks what.
I don’t think you should accuse me of misrepresentation and then emphasise half a quote which therefore takes the quote completely out of context. This was the full quote:
“If your intention is just to ruffle feathers for your own anthropological experimentation, I think we’d all prefer you to conduct these tests elsewhere.”
I am not concerned about being right. In fact, I didn’t even really express an opinion, other than that it is what it is and personally I’m just going to enjoy seeing what happens.
Nikolas,
Doesnt it strike you as odd that the “great chad pennington” will be competing to be a starter on a team that went 1-15 last year?? What does that say about him?
If he was sooo gooood then there should be no competition and he should be the starter from day 1 with no contrevery. Especially on a 1-15 team. To me, that speaks a lot about Chad and his overall talent if he has to compete for a position on a 1-15 team.
Also, no one is giong to want the PSL and no one will go to any games if the Jets suck next year or 2 years from now. The Jets are building for now with their future in mind. It would not be a smart business decision to bring in Brett for 1 year, ruin the team, and send the organization back a few years in progrss. How will the organization make money then? They need to compete every year and bringing Brett is just a short term solution with the long term in mind.
As much as I like Chad, there’s really no debate that he’s unreliable as a starter because of injury. To me Chad is like Jim Abbott, who pitched a no-hitter for the Yanks and had one-arm. It was amazing and inspirational that Abbott with his disability was able to pitch at an elite level. But, overall, he was a mediocre pitcher. It’s amazing that Chad, with a weak arm and the inability to complete the deep out in order to stretch defenses, has performed at an elite level. But, Chad’s injuries and physical limitations make him just a mediocre QB. On the principle that everything is debatable, I guess the Jets could’ve been better off with Chad over Favre, it’s just that it’s exceedingly unlikely. Favre isn’t a mediocre QB; he’s on the short list of one of the best ever and is coming off of a Pro Bowl season.
As for the long-term implications, it was pretty obvious that Chad’s tenure with the Jets was coming to a close. The problem was that his putative replacement, KC, is at present far less than mediocre. But, with the emergence of Ratliff (who fits my criteria for a successful NFL QB over KC), it looks like the Jets have an eventual replacement covered.
Now, the only question with Favre is whether in the short term he can mesh with the offense enough to run it better than Chad. Over time, there is no question, at least in my mind, that Favre will be able to run the offense better and, IMO, he will be better from the outset. The reason is that the threat of Favre throwing deep prevents a defense from press coverage on the WRs and 8-men in the box. That alone makes things easier for the offense.
Thus, from a football standpoint, getting Favre for a 4th rounder was a no-brainer. That he also makes PSLs easier to swallow just means Woody, Tanny and the FO are good at what they do. The real problem I have with Nikolas’ viewpoint is that the “same old Jets” would never have made the Favre move or wouldn’t have gotten him. This FO usually gets their targeted free agents. I don’t think the FO threw either Chad or the fans under the bus. Instead, what they’ve done is improve the QB position and, overall, the whole team and given the fans hope. That is a refreshing difference, no matter what ends up happening.
SackDance99,
There is no point to even debate about this. Some people are just throwing about comments that are based on pure emotions and personal agendas rather than facts and statistics.
Personal opinion and ideas mean nothing in the face of statistics and statistics show that Brett is a better Qb than Chad ever was.
Chemistry will hopefully be built throughtout the season but Brett and the offense looked might impressive last week against the skins. And that O line was getting a great push and protection.
Nikolas just has personal agendas with Chad. That is understandable because Chad was a very likeable guy but dont let that blind you into thinking that he is on the same level as Brett.
The entire John Abraham story has not been reflected in this thread. He was not only injury prone, missing crucial playoff games, but a one-dimensional player. He played poorly against the run, content to chase sack totals he could leverage into big contract demands. He was also arrested for DUI after driving into a fire hydrant, something that had to raise a red flag about potential problems down the road with the league and possible suspensions. Ultimately, not a great bet for a big, fat, cap-burdening contract. Just ask the Falcons who gave him one. I was as bummed as anyone not to have him chasing Tom Brady around but I can’t really fault the FO for that move.
There are a lot of tough decisions made on NFL personnel and no FO gets every single one right, including this one. But I just don’t see the evidence that this particular administration is even below average, let alone totally incompetent.
The idea that cutting Pennington was a huge mistake, disloyal, etc., is just one perspective. Another is that Chad got a bigger chance from Mangini than expected. Mangini, who had designed defenses against Pennington, never wanted Chad as his QB. Upon Mangini’s hiring he, like most people in the league, thought that it was over for Chad. Chad surprised him with a strong camp following it up with that Comeback Player Of The Year performance. But that, and the slow development of the young QB the FO drafted to replace Chad, simply delayed the inevitable. Mangini was never totally confident in Chad’s ability to take them all the way. The sudden availability of Favre – whether he takes them to the SB or not – was a ripe opportunity to make the transition to the type of QB the FO always imagined as their starter. Favre is not a long-term solution. But it’s now clear that in the view of the FO, and many fans, neither was Pennington. It would seem the belief was that Favre simply represented a short term solution with a little more potential upside.
Personally, I like the move. Though, I certainly see all the challenges associated with Favre’s age, unfamiliarity with the system, playbook, propensity for taking dangerous risks. It could absolutely blow up. Anyone who doesn’t recognize that is probably kidding themselves. But, as a matter of personal taste, I’d rather go down in a blaze of glory than a whimper like the team often has in the recent past. Maybe that’s the native New Yorker in me. And I have yet to hear any evidence from any source of a locker room split. Even Coles, Chad’s best friend, isn’t spouting any anti-Favre or anti-team propaganda. I won’t believe it exists until I see it.
I can understand the extreme disappointment from the fans who took the view that all of Pennington’s shortcomings were the result of poor play around him. I expect that people in that camp were crushed to see all the improvements made without Chad having the opportunity to benefit from them, redeem himself and silence his critics. I agree that Chad was one of the best QB’s the Jets have ever had, though we’ve had a lot of terrible QB’s. But Chad is not the Jets, to me. In my forty years of painful devotion to this team, he’s really a small blip on the radar. Eight years vs. thirty two. A nice blip, but no one player, or even group of players, is the team to a long-term fan.
I’ve been deeply disappointed by various moves by various Jet management groups over the years but I could never imagine rooting for the team to lose in order to prove I was right about my criticism regarding cutting a favorite player. That and being a fan just seem mutually exclusive, to me. I was born and raised a hard-core Knick fan. I made my own Walt Frazier jersey out of a tank top and blue and orange paint when I was eight. Yet, I have to say that the Dolan family and their poor management have all but totally alienated me from the team. I went from someone who watched almost every game to watching none. But if I happen to stumble on a game while flipping the channels, I still root for the Knicks to win. I can’t help it. Those blue and orange colors run deep.
Just like the green.
Go Jets!
Subwayfare…I respect your position on the issue. Well said…but I do not share it!
Tannenbaum and Mangini have shown nothing to me to gain my trust; the opposite is true. For every good move they have made to improve the team they have counteracted with a stupid one to nullify it! To me this is a sign first of inexperience (which was expected), but repeating it does not qualify it for inexperience any more ,but rather for “incompetence”.
I suspect that leaders in this team have been gone ..for a sole purpose, their presence was exposing the inadequacies of the Coaching and the FO. Even Favre hinted on that when he commented on the play-book. They do not know what they are doing and the sooner they are gone the better for this franchise.
A philosopher used to say that history repeats itself but the first time as “drama” the second as “comedy”. The Knicks were the DRAMA ..and the Jets have an excellent chance to be the COMEDY.
Subwayfare…..I watched all the Knicks games and I endured the Drama, I will attend and watch the all the Jets games too…but this time I prepare my self to have FUN.
I’ve been meaning to make this point before. Warren Moon made the Pro Bowl at 38 and 39 with the Vikings, which he played for until he was 40. Then, he went to Seattle and made the Pro Bowl at 41. Favre’s age is a factor, but there’s no reason to believe that he can’t be as effective as a fellow HOF’er like Moon.
Fair enough, Nikolas. As long as we’re all having fun. ;)
guys ignore nickolas.
I must be missing something….i still dont get how ANYONE would think that favre over chad is debateable.
a top 5 QB in this league….brady, manning, romo…lock top 3…..whats chad??
please someone explain the debate…