Are ‘Bad Decisions’ Being Made Elsewhere?
Vic Carucci of NFL.com takes the Jets and Brett Favre to task, questioning just how valuable Favre is to the Jets, and whether he’s really helping this team. If you’re a fanboy and don’t want to read mean things said about people, then move along. If you’re just looking to bash the team, you can do the same. But if you’re willing to look at critical thinking, then keep reading.
Favre finished with three touchdown throws, as many as Rivers had, and 271 passing yards. But the bulk of his positive numbers came late in the game, after the Chargers had built a comfortable lead and were conceding the middle of the field to the short and intermediate routes that Favre completed in a hopeless comeback attempt.
When the game was still a game, Favre was mostly inept. He threw a pair of terrible interceptions, one of which Antonio Cromartie returned for a touchdown, and had two would-be pickoffs that were dropped (including another that Cromartie easily would have returned for six).
Frankly, Favre looked much more than a year older than he was during that MVP-quality season in 2007. For the most part, he played the role of dinner for a Charger defensive front that generally got the better of him, especially when the game was close.
I don’t want to hear about Favre’s difficult transition in learning a new offense with which he has had limited exposure. He made bad reads and poor decisions. Throughout his career, he has been a quarterback who mainly relied on his instincts. Those instincts often let him down Monday night and they haven’t exactly been good to him for the better part of the past three weeks.
If the problem truly is that Favre has yet to fully grasp the playbook of offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer, then what are the Jets doing with him as their quarterback? Wasn’t part of the benefit of having such a highly accomplished veteran that he could provide fairly instant production because of his wealth of knowledge? So far, Favre’s contributions have been good enough to give the Jets a close win over the rebuilding Dolphins.
For me as a fan, it all really comes down to remembering what my expectations were for this season and trying to figure out how I got so ahead of myself.
Before Favre, I thought this was a team that could stretch to make the playoffs. When the Favre talks got serious, I was in denial, but also very concerned about how quickly a guy who self-admittedly didn’t watch much tape, hasn’t much cared to dust off a playbook, or had to deal with a changed offensive system — a truly charmed life for any quarterback. In this area, Favre lags woefully behind former QB Chad Pennington, plain and simple. Now granted, Favre brings a lot more that Pennington never could to the offense, and the team is banking on all those other things once he becomes comfortable — but the Achilles heel of that plan is when will that actually happen?
Had the trade for Favre happened in March, it would be a different story. Favre would have had lots more time to get comfortable with his scheme and his teammates, especially his receivers. But that wasn’t the case. Favre became a Jet the day of the first preseason game, a full two weeks into training camp. The one thing I was most concerned about when Favre came aboard was how prepared he would be for the start of the season, and with some terrible interceptions and wrong throws to wrong routes at the wrong times on Monday night to a secondary that has struggled so far this season, it didn’t look good. Add into consideration his bad interception into triple coverage in the Patriots game, and I’m left very concerned.
It’s always darkest before the dawn and I hope working out of the spread at the end of the game will bode well for Favre. He was looking much more comfortable at that point, but take how easily he moved the ball with a shaker’s worth of salt, as Carucci writes, those were garbage yards against a prevent defense giving him the middle of the field, allowing the clock to wind down.
But back to my expectations.
I always use 10-6 as the mark of a successful season and before the season started, I decided to give the team slack for five games, but that the team needed to go .500 during that first four game stretch to get that slack. So far, 2-2 is still within reach. The Jets are in a place where that they can still make a run after their bye, but looking down the schedule, the Jets have four divisional games still to play along with an away game against Tennessee, who has an amazing defense and at home the following week against Denver, who has an amazing offense. So, with two losses already, there’s at least six games right there that are serious concerns — not even considering the team could lose a “trap” game. The bottom line is that the team has to progress offensively, defensively and on special teams … RIGHT NOW. Yes, there’s a lot of football left to play but forgetting the urgency of getting back on track now is foolish.
Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum loves to publicly pat himself on the back about how “some of the best moves are the ones you don’t make,” but I’m starting to wonder if Tannenbaum actually listens to himself, or just repeats Bill Parcells aphorisms that he thinks sound good. I don’t think the regime is in trouble of losing their jobs yet, but this move was a doubledown by Tangini from a public relations standpoint with the fans and currently hangs in the balance based on the next sequence of cards.
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Getting Favre was a position upgrade, but the timing does not upgrade the team.
Bassett:
I agree 100% with all your points, except one thing you CAN’T lose perspective of:
The JETS had been 9-7, 10-6, or otherwise a playoff-bound team quite a bit under Chad … but he had his limits.
Sure, he could’ve taken the Ravens to a Super Bowl victory the year they won with that defense, or maybe the Bears team that was dominant defensively that lost to the Colts, but the JETS aren’t there and aren’t going to be.
Simply stated, Chad was a great guy, an above-average QB and all, but had his significant flaws that weren’t going to change.
The “double down” is a good analogy, but the benefits (having a QB with the physical ability to bring you to a Super Bowl) was the big kicker in this “bet”. Quite frankly, although it is a measure of success, I don’t particularly care if the JETS took a chance, go 8-8 with Favre rather than perhaps 10-6 with Chad, and the Chad-led JETS get cranked by a Pittsburgh or other playoff-bound team that plays tight defense and creates turnovers, particularly by sitting on Chad’s gentle passes to the outside when he’s forced to make ‘em.
hi dsmizzle — that was a point i had thought about but not written in … thanks for adding that … he was ultimately limiting with a mediocre defense … i 100% agree.
*I meant I don’t particularly care if playoff appearances alone are something to feel good about; i.e., a measure of success. I don’t like going 10-6 or 9-7 without ever having a legit shot at beating the more dominant teams b/c they don’t have the horse at QB to get them there.
Sure, Brett has to endeavor to be more Chad-like and limit his mistakes, but he can theoretically do that, whereas Chad can’t magically get Brett’s physical abilities.
So its a risk, but one that is defintiely worth it, particularly if the big risk is that Chad could have gotten us to the playoffs and Brett won’t, considering Chad’s limitations would stick out like a sore thumb in the playoffs against dominant defenses.
Brett can’t be more Chad like. We have to move past Chad and hope he had a positive influence on the 3 QBs sitting on the roster who could be our future. KC has the arm and now the offense has been tailored to meet many of the weaknesses often proposed by KC’s critics. Who knows if he could ever be great or even good, but we should find out. Ratliff is interesting because of how much he learned in a year. Ainge was horrible throughout camp, but got much better the last month and played well against the Eagles scrubs. We may have a future, but it isn’t named Favre or Pennington.
Favre is the kind of player that’s always going to divide people with differences in their taste in professional athlete. He’s what is generally referred to as a “natural.”
Fans of the earnest, hard-working, studious player who gets more out of his abilities than anyone expected are never going to warm to the instinctive gunslinger who has a hard time in the classroom but pulls some brilliant plays out of his a@# on gameday.
Fair enough.
And there’s no question that Favre has fewer of those gems left in him at 39 than at 29. But I find it hard to argue against taking the shot to try and catch lightning in a bottle one last time, considering where the team was sitting at the position: flipping a coin between an unproven prospect who made a hell of a lot of mistakes last year and a game but beaten up overachiever, whose multiple trips to the surgeon’s table seemed to finally catch up with him on his own ghastly picks.
There were flashes in the second half Monday night, even if they did come against a prevent-like defense. I’ll stick around and watch the rest of the show, thanks
Reggie Jackson was natural who many people were dead against when the Yankees brought him in in 77. And fo
Reggie still holds the strikeout record, I think, but he had some magical moments at exactly the right time.
The problem is we need to run the ball and open the field for Favre not the other way around. Everyone has this illusion that Favre is this long ball thrower that goes down field all game…..NOT TRUE!! He is a quick slant, west cost QB that relies on timing and communication with is WR’S, something he doesn’t have now. I know it was late in the game but they did begin to throw the slants and screen patterns that worked. We all expected this to take time to develop. 2-2 at the Bye was our expectation not our goal. Nothing has changed in my mind…..yet!
Carucci is writing what some of us were saying the day after Favre became a Jet – he is no savior, he is an interception machine because he makes horrible decisions and will eventually lose as many games as he wins because of his so-called gunslinger mentality.
Tangini is gone after this season – another subpar effort that we Jets fans just keep enduring.
I take issue with a couple of Bassett’s observations. Favre’s back foot throw to LC was in some ways vintage Favre…it wasn’t a perfect pass, but it was on a line directly to his WR and gave his WR the opportunity to make a play. LC didn’t. How exactly was that a “terrible” INT? And, the pick by Weddle was a screw up, either by Favre or Jericho, but let’s not lose sight that Weddle made a great individual play. If all INTs are “terrible” then I guess both were. But, my definition of a terrible INT is, like against the Pats, when a pass is forced into coverage. Now, football is a game of inches and official’s calls. What if the LC pass was rightly called PI by Cromartie? What if TJ, who never fumbles, had played to the whistle and used those guns to cover up the ball? What if the Jericho offensive PI call against the Pats (which preceded Favre’s only INT) wasn’t called?
Also, I seem to remember everyone saying how great KC was last year against the Ravens when they similarly eased up on defense. The difference is that Favre started to get TDs. A little defense and the game could’ve gotten very interesting. And, it should be noted that KC facing the same lackluster defense threw the worst INT by a Jets QB on Monday. Last point, neither Favre nor KC play defense and the Jets, again, showed an uncanny knack for allowing 3rd down plays.
To me Favre was a huge upgrade over Chad or KC and was worth the risk. I wish he had more time to master the playbook or had more time in camp throwing to Jets WRs, rather than Mississippi HS kids. But remember, the Chargers and Pats were in the AFC Championship game last year and both were hyper-motivated to win. Not exactly games for Favre to ease into the offense. Let’s see what happens against the Cards. A win there and the bye week to work on the offense sets the Jets up for the rest of the season and, as the Raiders showed on Sunday, the Bills aren’t a juggernaut and neither are the post-Fins spanking Pats.
Baseball analogies do not translate well IMO.
Favre now has an injury, the extent of which is undisclosed, that he seemed nonchalant about. Among all this talk and speculation one thing I knew was that he is 39 and hopefully he can hold his body together but this is the third game and he’s banged up already.
From what I’ve seen he has been under-throwing the ball too frequently. Maybe he should try to over-throw it to see what happens.
I hope he gets rest during the bye week and if this injury is more serious I don’t think it would be wise to try playing especially if it hurts the team. After the bye though he will not have another chance to rest so that is where this season will seem especially long to him.
It’s Wed. and I wonder if the beat people will be able to report on the ankle and if it will be a factor.
Guys like Carucci were the same guys yelling why are they handcuffing a HOF QB last week! Now all of a sudden when he makes mistakes (clear communication mistakes) Favre is old and dumb and the Jets made a mistake trading for him. This might as well been Gary Myers writing this story. Has anyone ever seen Myers and Carucci in the same room? Again 2-2 at the Bye and give Favre and the offense 2 additonal weeks to work together and make a run
Oh and I agree with SD99 on that out INT it was just a nice combo of skill and luck plus the tipped ball landed behind LC. Had he been a couple of inches taller he may have grabbed that ball. It was just about in the right place where only the WR should have had a chance at it.
But there are other instances where Favre is under-throwing and he even mentioned it so perhaps as he gets to know his receivers he will fix that.
$352,941.16 per touchdown pass…that is what Brett has cost the Jets so far.
81 points given up after 3 games is what has cost the Jets two losses.
If the Defense doesn’t tighten things up…you could put either Brett…Clemens or Ainge behind center and it won’t matter. You could even put one of the 4 kickers behind Mangold…won’t matter. The Defense must get better. They look unprepared and get beat all the time on missed assignments.
Maybe the coaching is at fault. Is Mangini and his cast of merry men coaching too much and not letting the players play the game?
Even if Favre doesn’t work out- you have to ask yourself- why the heck not try? They gave up nothing to get him, and replaced Chad who was a great guy but was never going to be enough for them to beat the best teams. Clemens is still a question mark at best- but the Jets would have been in the same position with Chad on the way out as they are with Brett for a year or two.
That 81 points is misleading since 48 came in one game.
The D definitely needs to take away those underneath patterns before I have to shell out more money for a smashed HDTV.
And, as “bad” as Favre has been, he’s completed 70% of his passes and is 10th in the NFL in QB rating at 98.7.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=pass&sort=rat&league=nfl&season=2&year=2008
If Brett Favre can’t improve this team, it tells you that this team needs much better coaching leadership. Why Sutton wasn’t fired after last year is a mystery to me. How they hired the incompetent O’Dea is another mystery. And why they can’t tell Schott to be less predictable remains a source of frustration. Obviously the man in control is happy with their poor performances. So MANGINI MUST GO!!!
Bassett:
HORRAY, HORRAY for telling it like it is. That is why your blog has grown to be the best !! I would just like to make one point:
Everyone says that Farve brings more than Pennington to the Jets. Question: More arm? No need to answer.
Don’t get me wrong phisycal abality is great but I can give you ten times more examples than not that hard work, dedication, BRAINS and willingness to go the extra miles ALLWAYS win in the end !!
Chad’s intangibles are great and they’ve taken the JETS to the promised land!!
Oh wait.
At the beginning of the season I felt the jets would be 3-1 after week four. I didn’t think we would have beaten the Chargers but I felt we had a chance to beat the Pats and we blew it. The truth is we could very easily be 0-3 right now. The Jets need to beat the Cards. You can blame every thing on Farve. Fine.
What I don’t understand is why some of you still have the illusion that KC may develop into an NFL QB. If we wouldn’t have gotten Farve this year would have been like last year. Chad gets injured. KC sucks.
hank/naples, by almost any objective criteria, Favre has outplayed Chad this season and, in their only mano-a-mano match up, Chad blinked by throwing a bad INT to end the game. I like Chad, but as Dirty Harry said “a man has to know his limitations.” Chad continued to throw his weak duck outs for easy INTs even when he should’ve known that he didn’t have the physical ability to complete those passes. That’s why Chad’s TD-INT ratio started to drift down to 1-1. So, was Chad showing “brains” when he continued to believe that he could make throws that his injury-weakened right arm would not allow?
SackDance 99:
Your tilted stats are nauseating. I guess nothing that Bassett writes, unless its smoke blowing smoke up Farves butt, you will accept.
How is that Chad had eight years and some people think he still deserved more of an opportunity but Favre should be judged on three games?
Well if you say the “Team” has to Progress then why are you alway’s blaming Brett? Last time I checked he didn’t play defense or special team’s either……..
This is a “Team Game” not a game played buy one……………
hank/naples
How are the stats tilted.
RK
How does 48 points in one game make 81 points misleading.
Blame Farve all you want but it doesn’t change the facts.
This game changed tremendously once Jenkins left after the second series, not like the Chargers ran wild, but the whole middle seemed to open up and the Chargers simply had more room to operate, it affected the pass rush as well, which was non existent. That though is no excuse for missed assignments in the secondary, with Lowery as a rookie and Barrett/Smith combo at safety I guess we are going to have to expect days like this.
Arizona is far from a gimme by the way, but the Jets need to find a way to get a win and move on, I don’t care how (much like Miami in week 1). As it has been said over and over, get to the bye at 2-2, get guys better acclimated and take advantage of the schedule’s soft underbelly and we could all be singing a different tune (one without the words “fire” in them). Patience is a virtue lost on jets faithful.
If this Favre thing doesn’t work out, Johnson may fire Tangini. That would be a mistake in my opinion.
But look on the bright side, at least Matt “huh?” Millen is looking for work next year!
Overall, thanks for such a sober report Bassett – always seeing things from a higher plane of thought. Sorely needed in Jets fandom territory!
DC
The Editor
If Farve can’t improve this team maybe it is because of inflated expectations of the players.
Most feel we have an abundance good of wide outs. We are playing The Cardnials this week yet we don’t have a wide receiver as good as either Larry Fitzgerald or Anquan Boldin.
Good points made! Getting Favre was a very interesting pick up/risk at the time which i was in favor of. I didnt want CP but i was hoping to see KC because i thought with all the new pieces we wouldn’t be great yet.
So to my point- Favre will be a waste if he doesnt come back next year. This year is his learning year, but if we only go 8-8 which is looking at it optimistically right now the way the whole team is playing; do u really think he will want to come back next year! I dont think so! Then we will be putting in KC or Ratliff and it will be a learning experience for them too- meaning we wont be that good with them in their- their first full season! Favre also stated recently the team just doesnt get excited when big plays happen. lack of fun- wont come back next year.
We keep saying we have a good team and with our easy schedule coming up soon we should win those games! Why do u say that? I havent seen anything out of this team to think we can dominate any team right now!
The one thing i thought for sure would be much improved this year and i was so excited to watch was our Defense. so far they havent showed me anything! Couldn’t stop the TE’s in Miami, couldn’t stop the short pass plays to NE, and couldnt stop the chargers on 3rd down or get any pressure on the QB even with Jenkins in their in the 1st quarter!
I have seen nothing from this team so far to be happy or positive about! Then throw in the questionable play calling running 3x at the 3 against NE, playing soft and conservative against Miami at the end, and the killer against the Chargers- onside kick- just the pros totally out weighed the cons on that play.
The only positive that came out of the chargers game was our kickers actually did their job for a change!
SackDance 99:
See, there you go again, tilting your stats and here is why:
1) We were only able to beat Miami because the Virgin Mary threw that pass. It is now called a “Hail Mary”
) The reason Pennington didn’t beat us was a superb play by a superb shut down corner interceping, period end of sentence.
I do agree that the coaching staff has to be partly blamed. There aren’t to many players in the NFL that can play the nose tackle in the 3-4. We have one of them. The key to the last sentence is the number one. When Jenkins went out the coaches need to make adjustments.
That being said firing Mangini would be a massive mistake that this franchise has to stop making. A young new coach is going to go through growing pains. Why should we go through that just to let another team benifit from that after we fire him.
hank/naples
Both of your examples of tilting the facts have nothing to do with Farve’s stats.
Brad
I have to disagree about the D. Other than the underneath routes which I am still fuming about the run D has been vastly improved. And before the last game the Jets were tied in the NFL for sacks.
Also, Lowery can’t make every play every time but he has been a joy to watch. I think the weakest parts of the D have been Barton and Smith. But more importantly the Jets D is not making enough plays. They are better but they are not great. They can get better but as we saw with the loss of Jenkins they can also look terrible.
to those of you who are asking if its coaching…i say yea…it is…after all 1 of our motos is to trust the guy next to you…but the way our coaches are coaching…it doesn’t seem like they trust the players to get the job done…or maybe its both sides…but i do know bob sutton shouldn’t be our DC…and shotty shouldn’t be our OC if his offense is this complicated…i wasn’t even excited for the game…before it started i told my cousin we were gonna get blown out…he went off on me as a diehard jet fan should…but it ended up as i said…a blow out…its gonna be a long season…and never again will i be this optimistic ever again…same old jets…
pat d
But you know as well as I do that stats can and often are misleading. They can also be presented /ommited in a biased way.
Example: Farve came out smelling like a rose playing “mano a mano” because of the Hail Mary pass that he acknowledged he “couln’t see where he was throwing it”
pat d:
And I agree with you. The knucleheads asking for Tanny, Mangini, Schotty, Sutton, O’Dea and on and on asking to be fired are making a terrible mistake and you have to question their loyalty !!
I am hiring Drew to write for me. He says it better than I do.
But the team has not played well and it has very little to with Favre. Tis team was going nowhere with Chad (i love him too guys). Boy how soon we forgot that he was benched last year and in a “competition” with KC (who will never be more than he is now) this year.
There is just something not right. Maybe, as said above the staff is smothering the guys (i think so). Discipline is great -robotics is not.
RK, have to disagree about Barton. He may have been our best defensive player against SD, Revis aside. He was flying around making big hits. David Harris has to start showing up more.
Our biggest problem against SD was our pass rush, which didn’t exist.
I will be honest and say at this point I have no idea what the Jets record will be at the end of the season, but we won’t know what this team is capable of until at least game 5.
Keep in mind that Chad was set up to have an excellent season with the Jets and get them into the playoffs in my opinion. The way he has played so far with Miami proves that view.
If Chad played in the Patriot game the Jets would have won and be at 2 & 1.
Many here trashed Chad. Lets not forget that.
Now, I think Farve is a great QB and I fully expected him to strugle in a new system. Yes fully understanding 100% of the plays is important no matter how great you are.
I think if Farve is able to “get the system” by the 8th game and the Jets have at least a 500 record then he could take us to the SuperBowl.
If not, then it was a wasted season. If he then retires the Jets have wasted 2 Seasons or more making this move.
Joe
Not that I am putting this all on the shoulders of anyone, especially Favre, but just think for a minute. In a year from now, IF this Favre experiment proves to be a failure, we will be staring at a QB controversy in camp between Clemens and Ratliff.
More food for thought….
Interestingly and hopefully we don’t get to this point, but IF the chemistry does not appear after weeks 4, 5, 6, 7, when do they pull the plug and save the rising draft pick to the Packers by putting Clemens in?
7-9 at best…down from my previous 11-5…unless we learn how to coach and the players are lets loose and play some smash mouth football…were no better than 7-9…at best…
Joe, there is nothing to show Chad would be better than Favre. The Phins beat the Pats because they were able to run the ball down their throats. Ronnie Brown ran for 4 TD’s and threw for another. We lost to the Pats because of our kicking game, not Favre.
The same old Jets, nothing more, nothing less. The Tangini regime is in danger of failing.
Chad was 17 of 20 for 267 or so Yards.
He almost beat the Jets in game one.
The Jets would have 100% of the play book for every game and Yes he would have been better than Farve when compared to Fave’s current knowledge of the Jets syatem.
What happened to the Jet offense that never huddled up? What happened to the unpredictable offense? Where did it go?
Other teams have been playing the Jets offense very well because the Jet offense is limited and predictable right now with Farve. He must learn 100% of the Play book if we are to go to the playoffs.
Joe
The 2 turning points of this game were the TJ fumble and the inexplicable onsides kick call. Both quickly turned momentum to SD after big plays by the Jets. The pick 6 to Cromartie is on Coles (and even could have been called pass interference IMO).
In any case, this is the time that the media blows everything out of proportion & I’m sure Carucci has the Bills going to the AFC championship game, but most figured us to be 1-2 at this point and guess what – that’s what we are. Five positives to chew on while all the criticism flies around: 1) TJ had holes & was moving the ball with authority before the fumble. 2) Pass protection for Favre was excellent. 3) D was very solid before Jenkins got hurt and not awful afterwards. 4) Keller is a mismatch for most LB/S and will be a factor in the passing game. 5) Leon & special teams could be really special. OK – now back to the regularly scheduled Jet bashing. Must beat ARI.
dakar, I agree. This is such a finesse team. Smash moth would help.
Pete-Chad is not better than favre as you say, but we lost because of coaching.
And, Pete, I hope you are as tired as i am of “the reason we lost was__________” (this week pass rush-and what was that about-maybe sutton wasn’t watching). How about this–We won but we really need to improve our ____________.
And for my ex-wife-How about those 3 runs against the Pats.
For my ex-girlfriend: I like D’Brickashaw Ferguson as a player more than I like you as a person.
i dont understanding the bashing of the defense. there are a lot of things to get frustrated by, but the D isnt one of them IMO.
the D has allowed 74 points (you cant count farve’s pick-house against the D). how many possessions have started at or close to our own territory so far this season? 10? more?
Couple of points:
1) Favre seemed amazed that the team didn’t get excited after big plays — that was coached out of them by Mangini. (5-second rule)
2) Favre has been improvising for 16 years — he may not be capable of studying and executing based on the playbook.
Favre isn’t dumb, as has been alluded to in other comments. He has excellent football smarts and instincts. But he is an old dog, and maybe he shouldn’t be trying to learn new tricks. Mangini has rarely game-planned based on his personnel (e.g., Vilma), and no one really expected the Jets to throw out the playbook because Favre came in a few weeks before the season started. There is a transition that needs to be made for this to work, and it requires both Mangini and Favre to meet somewhere in the middle. I just hope the egos will allow this to happen.
I love you too, dsmizzle
1. Chad was finished as a Jet. His performance last season forced replacing him with a not ready Clemens.
2. Signing Favre was a win now thing. If they don’t get into the playoffs and make a run it is just a wasted season as far as finding/developing a quarterback.
3. I was not enthusiastic about signing Favre because I questioned his commitment. I felt I needed to see it on the field. I am still waiting.
4. I think we will see an improvement in the overall offense after the bye.
-jas……..I’ll start Monday
hank/naples-you are willing to give Chad every benefit of the doubt and none to Favre. Against Miami, the Jets didn’t have their kicker and the Jets’ special teams lost the field position battle. So, Chad had a short field to work with all 4th quarter and failed. We’ve seen that before and the play by Revis was great, but the pass was underthrown. That pass was meant to go over Revis and hit the pylon in the back end of the endzone, where either Ginn makes the catch or the pass goes out of bounds. John Adams once said “facts are stubborn things” and the fact is that Favre led his team to victory against Chad’s team on Chad’s home field. Also, I don’t see how Favre’s stats are tilted, except if Coles makes a catch instead of letting Cromartie make a pick and the officials hadn’t thrown the game for the Pats with that ridiculous offensive PI call, Favre would only have 1 INT so far (and might be 2-1). And, for ridiculous speculation, here’s mine: if Chad had been the QB, the Jets would be 0-3 and we’d see either KC or Ratliff this weekend.
Thank you Drew.
SackDance,
Great job quoting John Adams.
D’Brickashaw Ferguson should wear a shirt that says “Don’t Tread (your cleats) on me (chest)”
Marcu Henry was added to the practice squad according to Boland.
I don’t think the posts are bashing anything (offense ,defense special teams etc) per se. What I think is going on is that the team has been disappointing, not in the record itself but how we got there. Barely beat Miami-should have pounded them, lost to what may turn out to be a mediocre Pats team -probably should have beaten them, and got the crap kicked out of us by SD who depending on which post you read we could have or should beaten but at a minimum should have been competitive with.
With either Chad or Favre all of us expected a stronger opening 3 games-record aside. i am not trying to be critical of loyalty to the Jets but the disappointment of that lack of sizzle from the team is very bothersome.
This may turn around and we will just have to see.
But for dsmizzle-5 kickers and 4QBs-i understand Ainge has been practicing at LT.
Green guy-
Please tell me they cut the punter for Henry. Let’s all pray together.
Can’t pick on the defense.
How many times have they let a team march 90 or 80 yeards? Turnovers — funky ST decisions, etc. constantly provide a poor starting place…they are 5th in the AFC — FIFTH in yards allowed at 298.0 per game. Fifth. Hmm.
In fact Monday night — I almost finished a fifth.
Per Boland, Marcus Henry and Paul Raymond were added to the practice squad. By the way, Feely looked good against the Chargers, he’s good at onsides kicks and his KOs are higher and deeper, on average, than Nugent’s. If the Jets trim all those punters/kickers, the odd men out should be Nugent and Hodges (poor guy, has his big chance and gets injured…that’s bad luck).
They didn’t even have to cut a kicker! Amazing game this football.
Sack- Feely made me want Nuge back more. Nuge kicks a better onside kick and would have let the ball travel ten yards. That one could have worked btw. I do think Graham won back his job tho.
NY Jets site- Tuesday’s late announcement that P Waylon Prather and TE Brad Listorti had been released from the P-squad.
They did ditch a kicker. I have answered your prayer.
Sack- who did they cut?
I know you guys got pissed but that was my whole point. Nugent is average. Feely will be just fine. We just don’t need 5 kickers instead of position players. Both Henry and Raymond have potential (see Stuckey last year). 5 kickers are stupid!
Do you guys remember how Parcells (another idiot who never thought of 5 kickers) dealt with kickers. If they didn’t perform, cut them and get a new guy. If he isn’t good get another new guy. Unless its a Ray Guy or Vinitari its really all the same plus or minus a little.
BRETT FAVRE = PUBLICITY STUNT!
- SUPERBOWL GIANT ENVY
- HIGH COST OF NEW STADIUM
- RIDICULOUS PSL PRICING
All of these are legitamate reasons of thinking that trading for this guy was a publicity stunt.
I’ll give him 1 more game after the bye week, and if he can not prove his worth, he must be benched in favor of Brett Ratliff or Kellen Clemens.
Be a professional Brett, you were hired for a job in which you agreed to. Now do your due diligence and hit the books. Its easier for 1 person to learn a new system than the rest of the 52 players.
There is a God!
Now if can only get rid of the extra kicker and punter from the active roster. Sack- could you talk to God about that ASAP.
We have to keep Hodges for 3 weeks or so I was told. Otherwise I’m sure he would be gone.
That’s correct, JAGG. When you sign a player from another team’s parctice squad you must commit to that player for at least three weeks.
Feed the punter to my ex-girlfriend, she is a-fat!
You’ll just never convince me hodges was the only decent guy out there. If he’s on a squad leave him there. Wasn’t it the Pats squad? Wait , don’t answer that. If its true my head will explode again.
dsmizzle ex will take care of Hodges so has to get rid of nugent.
For all you “what if” fans out there: What if the Jets passed on getting Favre? Can you imagine the howl that would have gone up? So get over Favre being here and CP not being here.
Next, ANY QB could be hurt at ANY time and we’re facing KC as backup if Favre gets it. At least he’s been here throughout training camp and pre-season. He will be functional and the line blocking is better than last year, so he will be upright and not running for his life. It could be worse.
Now, for coaching, you MUST realize that you coach to your teams abilities. The early, three runs included, conservative approach was within the limited capabilities of the team, not the individuals that make up the team. I’m sure the MNF script was to see where the offense was by opening it up. I was sorry not to see TJ try running it in again, but everybody else got to see BF throw from the one TWICE to answer that question.
Sack has nugent-ASAP
These articles really mean nothing because, guess what guys…IT’S WEEK 4! I guarantee you that if Favre has a good game this week and they win, nobody will be asking whether he’s hurting the team. He has plenty of time to shut up idiots like these who over-dissect meaningless games early in the season. Sure it was a bad loss, and a win would’ve been a nice boost to the overall morale, but 1-2 is a lot better than 0-3. Not to mention, if Brett had a game like he did on Monday, and we happened to win, then nobody would be saying a thing. Favre is not the team, he’s the quarterback, the Jets blew the game on defense and sloppy offensive play by EVERYONE.
I agree with SackDance except about Nugent. I don’t see Feely as an improvement, especially on longer FGs.
The Ed(itor) must go!
I’d still bash Favre. I thought he was washed up in 04. I hate him and how most people seems to think he is still the player he used to be. For me its nothing new.
Just keep coming up with excuse for this team. We always have excuse and we always work hard. Every press conference, Mangini always talks about how hard they work and how he they are giong to “watch the film and correct the mistakes”.
HOW MANY MISTAKES HAVE BEEN MADE IN THE LAST 3 YEARS AND WHY ARENT THEY CORRECTED YET??????
Last year, Mangini made it sound like we were the best coached and hardest working 4-12 team in the history of the NFL. We were 4-12 because we lost all the “close games” and had no qb.
Wake up people. Something is wrong here and things need to change fast. MNF did no help the case that thigns are changing.
Nick,
Please, do not be satisfied by being 1-2 instead of 0-3. That is a loser mentality.
We should have beaten the Pats and competed against the the Chargers.
I think the defense has played well, but against SD they couldn’t prevent TDs after the failed onsides kick or Weddle INT…that’s when the Jets needed the D to step up. Also, Rivers wasn’t sacked or hit all game. I much rather see Murrell in there instead of Gholston…there’s a point in time when the Jets have to realize he’s hurting the team. IMO, he’s playing way too many snaps and he’s not been effective. He should play, but not when the game is still being decided. Garbage time, sure.
I wonder if the bashing will continue if the Jets beat Arizona this week, and after the bye comes a cupcake schedule. 10-6 should still be attainable. The main problem was the offense once again putting the defense in bad positions. If the turnovers stop, and the special teams continue to improve, they should be fine.
I’ll admit that I see Nugent’s name and I think that the Jets could’ve had Heath Miller instead of Doug Jolley and Nugent or Justin Miller. Also, I hate Nugent’s KOs. They’re not high or deep. Feely didn’t let his kick travel 10 yards, which was a mistake, but you had to like him crashing into the Charger player trying to get the ball…like with Elam, I’d rather have the guy willing to sacrifice his body and take/deliver a hit. I can live with mistakes, if I see effort.
I think a lot of you could use a doobie (Is that how you speel it?). This is way too serious for week 4.
JustAGreenGuy,
How are you not worried that right now, Brett is probably sitting ont he side line watching the team practice and nursing his ankle?
and you do know that the Jets can be 1-3 after this week going into the bye week. Is it too early then?
Parking-i agree but either kicker is Ok to go.
Probably the doobie. JK
I, like all of you, have seen worse. I didn’t like the Favre pick up (Favre and Mangini don’t work.) and losing to San Diego is no shock. I wish we beat the Pats. That game hurt. The thing is I’m still excited. I waited since January for this. If we lose aganst Arizona I’ll be mad. Just too early for me to worry.
I don’t like carrying extra kickers, but S**t happens! I’m glad we kept 4 qbs because maybe one of them will be worth a damn. The team is still rebuilding to me and are meeting my expectations of suckitude.
Najy-
I nominate you for President of the Anti Its Too Early and Anti We’re Sooooooooooo Close Club. I am truly proud of you.
Sack – It seemed to me last year like Nugent improved his kickoffs alot. You can’t judge by week 1 this year because he was hurt. He always seemed like a guy that gave his all, tried to tackle, etc. Feely makes me nervous. Giants got rid of him, fins cut him after last year. I don’t really care that much – we’re talking about kickers here – but if we really were to cut Nugent loose in favor of Feely, I’d at least want to have more confidence in the guy. Missing that chippie against pats certainly didn’t help.
In spite of the SD meltdown, I’ve been mostly happy with D, other than the failure to adequately cover the short pass from the slot or backfield. Of course, this is a huge deficit since that’s where 3rd downs are often converted. Either coverage responsibilities are not being effectively communicated or safety and linebacker play has just not been up to par. Though the talent drops off at safety after Rhodes, and Harris, Bowens, Barton, etc., may not have the most exceptional cover skills, it’s certainly not the least able group in the league. There must be a way to improve this, whether it’s recognition, technique or scheme.
Hasn’t Miller always been good about the slot or was I always hoping that he would be?
JustAGreenGuy,
Miller is alright. He is very athetic. Very fast but he can never stay healthy.
I’ve never felt confident about Miller’s play other than returning kicks. Ray Mickens was probably the last solid nickel back we’ve had. Unless you have a tremendous man coverage DB at nickel, safeties and LBs must step up.
I just cant get over what Buffalo has done since they have hired a new coach in 2006.
I keep comparing our team to Buffalo, and rightfully so. Thus far, we just dont compare.
As Parcells might say, let’s not go anointing the Buffalo Bills yet. The season is 3 weeks old.
subwayfare,
I know that. But last year, they lost the last 3 games of the season and just missed the playoffs and this year, the Bills look like they are ready to contend while the Jets are still trying to find their identity.
SackDance 99;
I have read most if not all your comments and I applaud you for being very informed. However you are totally missing the boat if you don’t see Farve as a huge contribution to todays problems. My typing ability and time constricts me to fully explain it all in one comment. I will say that i’m pretty confident that I or others, have covered 99% of the reasons why getting Farve WAs not SUCH A GREAT IDEA that in as much we GAVE THIS GUY THE KEY TO THE CITY !!!!!
We will never know but in my heart of hearts that with Chad we would be 2-1 and ALL OF US would be talking only about our next opponent .
I would like to look at the playbook angle. Maybe Favre sees this @#$% and can’t believe we have these plays that don’ t work. Why learn crap? The team doesn’t have enthusiasm, why? They have learned it from their head coach. I hope that Favre puts icy hot in their jock straps and scraps the #$%^ plays and runs his own and maybe we can have fun and play football. I think that we have a very talented team. I will put our team against any in the league with the right coach we go undeafeted and win the superbowl, but alas we have a Head Coach who was not ready to lead a team. A OC and a DC who are too conservative. We only have Westhoff and Callahan who is doing better.
I would just like to see a Cowher or Gruden come in and motivate the best team in the league to live up to their potential. I am glad we have Favre and I hope we have the “genius” to mold the playbook to him as opposed to running CP plays of the past…
Yes, and what’s wrong with the identity they are looking for?
Oh, and trade Coles, he is a whiny @#$%.
Najy-
Buffalo nearly lost to the Raiders at home.
And the Giants were trying to find their identity at this point last year at 1-2. I’m much more interested in whose identity is where at weeks 10-16. It’s week 3.
Najy,
I’m usually with you, but the Bills and Jets both got new coaches in 2006 and, entering this season, they have the same record as the Jets, 14-18, with the Jets having made the playoffs. As for this season, you would have to agree that the Jets had the harder schedule so far and, if that wasn’t bad enough, both the Pats and Chargers had extra motivation to win. I think that right now, the Bills are only a slightly better team than the Jets, but let’s see what happens when the Jets and Bills meet in week 9. IMO, the Bills have flaws and the one that I think we’ll start seeing is that Edwards is not a good deep passer, so he should get more press coverage and safeties cheating towards the line. The Bills can win tight ball control games because their defense and special teams are good, but if Edwards is challenged to go up top, he’ll start throwing picks.
James, Cant trade coles! That would send us WAY over the Cap. See Bent. See Bent Post. See bent post again and again and again: “We can’t trade Coles!”
Pat D, The 48 points in one game mislead the stats to say we gave up a lot of points in the other two. The Pats had 5! drives START! in OUR territory and only scored 19 points! We’ve held Ronnie Brown and LT to under 4ypc!!!! Our D is getting screwed week in and week out with field position.
Smith and Coleman are not good as starters…
I’ve drank wayyyy to much Ratliff Coolade! I pissin Ratliff and when I take a dump there’s a #5 in the toilet! KC does understand this offence but I dont think you can have a competition between Ratliff and KC and Still take a QB really high next April? Any Takers?
SackDance99 and subwayfare,
Guys, I completley agree that its only week 4 and we still have a lot of football left. I am trying to stay optimistic and hope for the best. I pray this season isnt lost at the beginning and it becomes too late for the Jets to mount a comeback and make a run for the playoffs.
Having been in this possession many times as a Jets fans and if history repeats itself, things look for bleak for the Jets and their fans. Thus far, the team as shown no signs of life and have lost the last 2 games in a row. Yet again, we beat Miami.
I just hope things change soon. My attitude, just like other fans is very negative because we havent had a reason to be cheerful for a while. We all had, including me, high hopes for this season when we picked up Brett Favre and all the free agents but reality is starting to him me like a bag of bricks.
Again, its still too early and there is a lot of football left. I am just very disapointed that after 3 years in the Mangini era, this team still has no identity and it looks like we are in bad shape thus far this season.
I appreciate your guys thoughts and I will try to regain focus and remain optimistic about the season until further notice.
Come on, does anyone actually expect people from the national media to actually know what’s going on with the Jets?
It’s pretty simple. The Jets play calling isn’t being limited in spite of Favre, it’s being limited because of Favre. The Jets want to run their no-huddle that’s been a huge part of their offense for the past two years and it’s not something that can easily be run with only a month in the system. The Jets ran out of it by necessity late in San Diego, but besides that they haven’t run it at all and that’s why we’ve seen all the screens and pre-determined smoke and mirrors plays.
When Favre is in control of the offense enough so that we can run the no-huddle, the Jets will be noticeably better on offense. No need to panic or listen to the fools from the media who really don’t know what’s going on here.
Is Brett Favre better than Chad? He is. He may not be better at studying the playbook or watching game footage, but he’s a better QB, he can stretch the field with speedy receivers like Coles and Cotchery, and I blame the play-calling more than anything else. I understand we had a lot of stuff designed around Chad’s limitations. But clearly, as the end of the MNF game showed, there ARE Brett friendly plays in that playbook. So…throw five wideouts onto the field and let Brett air it out. Sure, it was mainly garbage time. Regardless, it’s the type of play that suits Favre more and you can’t expect Favre to tackle Chad’s playbook. He’s a Rhodes Scholar for one thing, to make no mention of the fact that Chad and Brett are pretty much POLAR OPPOSITES.
I was ranting to myself about this last night and I came to one conclusion. Everyone knows that old adage that if it’s not broken, don’t fix it. Well, for all intents and purposes, the Jets have been broken for nearly forty years! And ever since Parcells got here, it’s been defense, defense, defense and super-cerebral micromanaging from the top. You know the look, that Belichick-esque, stoic face of leadership from the sideline. I think it’s about time to fix this and start playing aggressive. I know defense wins games, yeah yeah, great…but using defense to win a game is kind of, in my mind, playing “not to lose.” And say what you will about Herm Edwards, but he hit the nail on the head when he said, “You play to win the game!” So let Favre throw. He’s got a cannon, it’s what he’s good at, so shove all these fancy, shmancy, complicated plays that we’re trying to make him learn (that we designed with Chad in mind – and, also, didn’t really get us anywhere), shove them in the paper-shredder and let’s have a little fun. If we lose, at least we went down swinging, and having a good time.
Re: see Les Miles
Les Miles cost: $500,000 to leave before his contract expires at the end of 2011 – priceless.
SackDance. I agree with you that “terrible” is a strong word. I think that the first to LC was equally Coles fault as it was BFs. That said, the Weddle INT was bad and I can’t imagine that it was JC who was running the route wrong. Favre admitted that he has no excuses after the game was over.
Even ceding the Cromartie pick-six, the one Cromartie dropped on a similar miscue to Thomas Jones, and another almost interception should be considered if we’re talking about shades of bad passes that could have been or not been interceptions.
I agree
The Ed(itor) must go.
Reprocity
You are right our kickers lost the game to the Pats. Point taken.
Dave
Good point about Farve not being able to run the no huddle.
LAJetsFan
Sorry to inform you but Coles and Cotchrey are not speedy receivers. David Clowney is our fastest receiver.
When is Clowney and Chatman due to join our team.
We won’t have 4 kickers then.
Bassett, I just don’t think Favre has played all that badly. He has a 70% completion pct. and 6 TDs to 3 INTs. Favre has never been a high QB rating guy, but he’s at 98.7 so far. The rap on Favre is that he’s too much of a “gunslinger” with a penchant for bad INTs, usually by passing into coverage. If anything, he appears too tentative and fearful of throwing a pick. Like many on here, I’m a little frustrated that Favre looks so uncomfortable and the Weddle INT was emblematic of his struggles. But, through all that, Favre has still played well.
Hi,
Packer fan here. Read some of your comments and said to myself “ah, yes…the Brett Favre experience…”
Get used to it, guys. This is all there is. He’ll win a few more for you than he’ll lose, he’ll be really entertaining to watch (often in a bile-inducing, throw something at the TV kind of way), he’ll show flashes of “omg, how did he DO that” along with “HOLY HELL, what was he THINKING”. I just hope, for your guys’s sake, that he’s got a few magic games left in him.
…because it means a higher Packer draft pick if you get to the playoffs. But, brace yourself now. He will repeat WILL throw key int’s if you do get there.
I have been a Jets fan since 1965. I was very unhappy that the Farve deal was made. I will tell you why. Brett doesn’t want to play any more. He has retired twice. Finally Green Bay said no, you say your retired, you are retired. His vanity and pride was hurt. Enter Woody and the Marx Brothers in the Jets front office. Now look at Brett’s eyes when he is playing. They are dead. Nothing like they were in his glory days, all filled with fire.
Time to put this experiment to rest, and put in Kellen now that Chad has been released.
Bassett, I love how you mentioned that Comartie droped that pick going agaisnt Jones. I bet Comartie was thinking the JETS wouldn’t be that f#$king retarded to throw at me when I’m covering their RB who is not named LEON! This is just as dumb as having Leon block Adalius Thomas. Neither of these are a result of lack of chemistry or Farve not knowing the playbook… This is bad coaching, Period!