Link: Fifth Down on Mangini’s Onsides
John Woods at Fifth Down took our misgivings with Mangini’s onside kicks from our grades from last week and looked into the full history of Mangini and the Jets when it comes to onside kicks.
- You know about Monday night. Trailing by 17-14, the Jets kick onside, the Chargers recover and score four plays later. Jets lose, 48-29.
- Last season, on Sept. 16, trailing the Ravens by 20-13 with 3:12 left in the fourth quarter, the Jets failed to recover an onside kick. The Ravens punted three plays later, but the Jets wouldn’t score again. They lost, 20-13.
- On Dec. 9, 2007, with 2:59 left in the fourth, the Jets did an onside kick while trailing the Browns, 17-12. They recovered and kicked a field goal six plays later. But they lost the game when their subsequent onside kick was recovered by the Browns. Jets lost, 24-15.
- On Oct. 1, 2006, Mangini called for an onside kick with 10:10 left in the second quarter against the Colts. The score was tied, 7-7. The Jets recovered the ball and scored a touchdown 12 plays later, but the Colts won the game, 31-28.
- On Nov. 11, 2006, Mangini dialed up an onside kick to start the second half of a scoreless game against the Bears. Chicago recovered, drove for a field goal and the Jets lost, 10-0.
Generally, you never run an onside kick unless you are behind, but it’s clear that Mangini isn’t often benefitting from calling onside kicks.
21 Responses to Link: Fifth Down on Mangini’s Onsides
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EddieC says:
was the onside kick on monday night before or after Jenkins was hurt?
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klecko71 says:
after….pretty sure jenkins left in the first quarter?
either way the risk outweighed the reward….it didnt lose us the game, but it was NOT a smart call.
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ian says:
no, pat. you’re completely wrong–when the offense gets shut out and the defense only gives up 10 points, the loss is clearly because of the onside kick.
it’s pretty important to note that these onside kicks were all against teams with outstanding defensive or offensive teams. mangini seems to employ them only when facing teams with superior talent.
my problem with mangini is not his in game clock management or strategy–it’s with his team’s playcalling and his stubborn roster and talent management. (keep pretending d’brick is a starting LT.)
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The Ed(itor) says:
GOOD Coaches make good decisions. It is obvious to me that Mangini’s decisions are questionable at best. For example:
1. Not throwing on one of the 3 downs to get a 1st down against the Fish which would have sealed a JETS win.
2. Three runs into the line trailing 6-0 against the Patsies. By the way, the JETS must only rum off a certain formation as Harrison blitzed.
3. On-side kick against Chargers.
Three games, three questionable calls.
MANGINI MUST GO!!!! -
jas says:
This puts our season in perspective:
From STAT FOX-3 games into season since 2000 season
Start 0-3, 42 teams 0% make playoffs
Start 1-2 81 teams 24.7% make playoffs (yes including Giants)
Start 2-1 89 teams 50.6% make playoffs
Start 3-0 31 teams 73.8% make playoffsThe Pats game was important.
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Good article about what we all argue about at:
NFLGRIDIRONGAB.COM on Saturday at 7:16 PMI won’t comment, but everyone should look at it.
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Fonzie says:
Jas,
Yes the Pats game was important but you are only basing it on the fact that we lost monday night to the Chargers with the overall record at 1-2. You have no idea what this team is capable of without farve being there. Mangini is excellent as a manager as he tried to be more aggresive and take the lead with the onside kick against the chargers especially after our special teams gave us 96 yards the drive before to score. You seem to be lost my friend as you are basing those facts on how the team responded to San Diego and then you magnify the heartbreaking loss to New England at home? I hope not. The blame is not at all on Mangini but to be blame on the owner of this team who has disrupted the team chemistry. I repeat the owner is who has messed up the chemistry and has injected this team with THE DEADLY DISEASE aka BRETT FAVRE.
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fonzie-
i really never thought we would beat SD at SD before the season. we lost a win able game with NE.
I’m not blaming anyone. Just pointing out the stats. obviously the Cards is must win game.
We’ll see. Mangini aside I am not impressed with Sutton and shotty.
I have posted a dozen times that it is not our record that upsets me but how lousy we looked in all 3 games. -
So you are blaming our coaching staff right? Minus Mangini? Indirectly you are blaming him as well. We look lousy these three games right and who’s fault is that? Mangini right? Since he has to have his players motivated and ready to play. You see you keep spinning yourself in these webs. Just admit it we have looked lousy because THE TEAM CHEMISTRY is off. I mean you sound like a Johnny Styne disciple. What you are doing is you are showing us the result that the percentage of where we are now as a TEAM is so far off to make the playoffs. You have no idea what this team is capable of without farve on it. The TEAM CHEMISTRY is fine without farve there and that is what it comes down to not the record of where we are now and how are chances to make the playoffs are.
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pat d says:
ian
No ian you are wrong. The game you are talking about the onside kick led to a field goal in a game the Jets lost 10-0. I think that illustrates my point that the onside kick didn’t lose the game but a lack of scoring did. Lets say the Jets didn’t make the onside kick in that game – they still would have lost 7-0. In any game when a team scores 0 it is obvious why that team lost. -
Fonzie
To blame Farve and team chemistry for all our woes is a joke. The kicking game and field position lost the game to the Pats. And your arguement that we don’t know what this team is capable of without Farve is a bigger joke. Logic is not your strong point. -
Harvlis says:
If the Jets defense had shown the ability to shut down San Diego’s offense, I could see the possibility of an onside kick. San Diego was walking all over the defense. That call showed me that Mangini has alot to learn. It was outright DUMB. Most high school coaches would know not to have made that move. Overall, I believe we have the players but, I give the coaches the grade of “D”. If it was up to me, I would clean house, after this season.
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I am sorry pat d,
But it seems football knowledge is not your strong point as farve got a pick and forced our defense to hold the patriots to a low scoring game. I am sorry but if i am hearing you correctly our team chemistry is affected by brett farve.
If our offensive, team chemistry was not affected by Farve then answer this question.
HOW MANY TIMES AFTER PRACTICE HAS FARVE MET WITH HIS RECIEVING CORPS TO STUDY FILM AND GENERALLY GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER, AND HOW MANY TIMES HAS HE TAKEN THE PLAYBOOK HOME? DONT YOU THINK THAT THIS WOULD BE A CORNERSTONE TO BUILDING TEAM CHEMISTRY?
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TOON2388 says:
The coaches job is to call the right play at the right time and the players must execute. Sometimes coaches dial up the wrong stuff and it works (see Bob Brenly 2001 World Series). The On-sides kick Monday is a classic case of right call and poor execution. Mangini had the players in place to make a play and Wallace Wright botched it.
My biggest criticism of the coching this season is something NOBODY has touched on: too many plays with ALL OUT PASS RUSHES and soft coverage underneath – Miami, NE, & SD all hurt us with short passes and catches after run. YOU CANNOT RUSH 5 and allow the safety valves to be open – make QB wait that extra second to have to look downfield – that is how sacks & picks occur.
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Seems to me that if Jenkins was already out, this is a very risky move. With Jenkins in, you can argue that Mangini has faith enough in his D to hold them even if the kick isn’t recovered. With Jenkins out, way too risky.
That being said, getting rid of mangini would be incredibly stupid. It takes years to build a system and to keep tearing it down and starting over (as history shows) clearly gets us nowhere. With that in mind:
The Editor must go!! (only because you are a one-trick pony). -
Hey Toon,
Why dont you tell you boyrfriend BRETT FARVE that. He is almost on his way out to the highway now leaving New York and you dumbies behind. Dont criticize only one player for his mistake blame the team. I mean all you guys blame the coaches, the players every week blame someone else. See how far you get.
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subwayfare says:
Just curious, how can a 4-12 team’s chemistry be ruined?
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Fonzie
“Don’t criticize on player for his mistake”.That quote coming from you is funny since that is all you do. Blame Farve for our first loss because of our poor field position. Look at where the Jets started their drives and where the Pats started theirs. You are right about one thing if it wasn’t for our defense that game would have been a blow out. Blame Farve for our second loss because we let the Chargers score 48 points.
You make some good points but when you blame everything on Farve it just underminds those good points.
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The quote was- “Don’t criticize one player…
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pat–that was called sarcasm when i said the onside kick caused the loss when the offense was shut out and the defense held the bears to 10 points.
I wouldn’t blame the onside kicks for the loses. The lack of scoring is the problem.