OWWL: You Broke My Heart
“I know it was you Fredo. You broke my heart. You .. broke .. my .. heart!”– Michael Corleone, Godfather II
In Bent’s tradition of “Only When We Win” Posts, I will be taking the contrarian side of his posts on the (probably frequent) occasions that the Jets lose this season.
In my parents’ house growing up, I was taught that trust was something that was earned and kept. Something that could be easily broken. Once broken, it was hard to regain … proofs were needed to show trustworthiness. Smaller examples of trust would ultimately lead to larger ones again, but breaking trust big time had consequences … the point being that it was something that needed to be earned again.
That’s basically how I feel about yesterday’s game. That was a trust-breaker. It was the same thing last season when the Jets lost to the Bills early on in the season. That was the loss after which I knew the season was not going to end well for the Jets, so to start watching games with the intent of looking for the dreaded p-word … progress (shudder).
The 2008 Jets team seemed like a borderline playoff team to me going into the season, and I’m a generally a cautiously optimistic person, so when I start a season I wait to be proven wrong that this team can’t contend for a playoff spot. After a loss like that, there’s no way I can continue to believe that this team has a shot of going to the playoffs. Sure, they might regain some trust with a run of wins, but to me, this much is clear: they’re the ones who need to regain my trust.
The defense is looking good so far this year, but the offense has been a rollercoaster … not surprising with the boy from Mississippi at the controls. Yesterday after the game, Raiders cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha talked about the Jets coming out with a spread formation early and how predictable what they do is. “That’s the nature of their offense. It works until you figure out what they’re doing.” Mr. Schottenheimer, teams have you figured out. The cute gimmicks only work for so long, now you just need to line up an play some freaking football.
I’m also a pragmatist. I want Mangini to work out as a coach not because I respect his dogma (I do) but because I can’t bear to deal with another three-year rebuild with some other new coaching staff. After tearing down a functional 4-3 that needed one other DT in 2006, the team finally has the personnel that the coach wanted when he started three years ago.
But the trust issue is the same thing. Mangini sits there after a ass-whomping by a dysfunctional Oakland Raiders team that was offsides THREE TIMES on the Jets opening drive and says this:
“[There are] a lot of things from the game I am happy with.”
A lot Eric?
Funny how you looked like someone took a dump in your cornflakes most of the game and yet somehow you are happy. Say what you actually feel for once in your life. How do discussions work in the Mangini household?
Julie Mangini: With you coaching all the time, I really think we need to take a trip as a family after the season is over. We need time to bond.
Eric Mangini: Like any team, there’s an element in which you need your core players to forge unity and comradeship for better results on the field.
Julie: So what do you think we should do?
Eric: Well .. based on our family’s last away game, I think there’s some things that I’d like to improve upon.
Julie: Like what?
Eric: Mmm … I’ll have to watch the tape and get back to you.
Listen Mangini, I’ve given you your leeway, allowed you time to experiment with your coaching style (hard ass one year, softie the next) I’ve been patient with you when you refuse to tell the press which knee is going to keep one of the team’s star linebackers on the sidelines, but your time to payoff is well overdue. When you keep the press at an arm’s length, it works while you’re winning. You won in your first year, but since then haven’t done a thing. I know that it only matters what your bosses think, but trust me, your bill is going to come due with fans and the press very very soon if you can’t prove that your style is justified. We know you’re not going to win every game, but at least win the ones you should!
69 Responses to OWWL: You Broke My Heart
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Electric Ham says:
it was tough to get out of bed this morning what a joke
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klecko71 says:
b/c our coaches…S-U-C-K.
rhodes blitzing from siberia….brilliant “design” coach.
OT play calling….quite “agressive” coach.Sutton and schott need to be peaced….its that simple.
and mangini better wake the hell up, b/c with our luck someone else will hire cowher (browns?) after we realize our coaches S-U-C-K.
no team in the NFL rushes for 240, has the other team committ 14 penalties…and lose on a 57 yd fg in OT.P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C….
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jas says:
Thanks Bassett.
This is horrible and my constant griping about the amateurish coaching staf may now be spreading. I know what I write seems to get old, but his team has a very competitive roster. The game plans are just lousy. I truly believe they are WAYYYYYYYYYYYY too cute. Just go out and play hardnose football. I have no confidence in Shotty and Sutton.Here’s one for everyone———–
WHAT IF HERM-THE WORST COACH IN THE NFL OUT COACHES THEM NEXT WEEK-
Oh that’s right, we’re soooooooooooooo close! -
I’d love to say I told you so, but that would be tacky.
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Ed says:
What a waste of an afternoon. Trust? I don’t think I’ve trusted the Jets since Vinny was at the helm in 1997, and that was a long time ago. Very disappointed today, and I agree with Bassett. No way we’re going to the playoffs. I feel like ranting like old man Mora, “Playoffs? Playoffs? Are you kidding me?”
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The play calling was far from inspired. The spread, on the opening drive, was a good way to open, but needed a draw, screen, some sort of atypical formation runs. The Jets telegraphed everything, the Raiders tee-ed off and Favre took some hard shots early. Obviously the pass protection did not do what was required for the spread scheme to succeed.
How many play actions in the game? I saw one. Virtually everytime Favre was under center, the Jets ran. When one thing worked, either the pass or run, they never used that success to set up another aspect of the offense and keep the Raider defense off balance.
That same predictable philosophy hurt them on defense as well. No disguised blitzes — and against a young J. Russell, who has been flustered in his recent starts.
Favre’s throwing motion looked strange to me. Is his shoulder hurting from the Bengal’s game?
Also, as an aside, did anyone notice there was a shot of Favre sitting on the bench in the 4th quarter. His tee shirt under his shoulder pads peeked out from the neckline. The tee shirt collar was Packer gold, I think — as in gold collar, green below. Is he still wearing a Packer’s tee shirt underneath? Curious. -
Ed L says:
we need a new offensive coordinator and a more aggresive defensive coordinator…..i really do feel that all the success on defense has come from mangini….
schotty is really pathetic
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BradBaxter says:
I want Chad Pennington back. Farve is throwing the same dink-and-dunk passes Pennington is famous for, only Farve also throws alot more picks.
That game made me sick to my stomach… Shottenhiemer needs to go. There is no reason why Thomas Jones shouldn’t have gotten like 35 carries last night. They couldn’t stop him, yet Shotty decided time after time to come out with spread sets and not even threaten the run.
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J says:
The true indictment of our coaching staff is that we have been outscored in the 3rd qtr 45-10, 7 pts against the Fins, and 3 against the Bengals. A well coached team makes adjustments during the half and should score pts in the 3rd qtr. Our coaching staff is unprepared for the actual game, watch us next week go to a spread offense against the chiefs weak run D.
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subwayfare says:
Chad threw a game turning pick 6 against Baltimore yesterday.
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Nikolas says:
Subwayfare..you you continue to be so lame.
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Brad says:
Sadly – i had a bad feeling about this game once i saw that the Bills beat the Chargers. And for those who keep saying the Bills suck and havent shown anything, well after they beat the Chargers, u cant say that anymore. The Bills are a good team and we are not so good!
Don’t tell me that our defense was good! It held its own, but the RB still ran it up on us, and the QB had one of his better days. We barely got any pressure on their QB!
Our Offense is just pathetic! We think way too highly of our WR’s who couldnt get open at all, cotchery 0 yards! But meanwhile last weak the raiders D-fense let up a ton of yards in the air and we couldn’t do shit! Our O-line stinks! Can our O-line please have a good day of doing both- protecting favre and allowing lanes for our RB’s! They can only do one of those per week, just pathetic! Faneca- hasnt showed me anything! I think our O-line would be a lot better if we would have kept Kendall. Our youngesters on the line, mangold and ferguson played well their first year with Kendall and after a couple more years with the same guard between them, im sure they both would be pro bowl caliber!
The up and down rollercoaster of this offense and Favre is making think that the Favre move was a bad move since we dont seem to utilize him correctly; that we would of been better off with Clemens, who we will probably see next year since we probably wont make the playoff and Favre wont come back. Just another rebuilding year for our offense next year if things continue!
And of course our Coordinators suck, except special teams! Schotty and Sutton should be fired and we should just let the players run the plays they want! Favre, Jones, Coles will run the offense! Ellis, Pace, and Rhodes run the Defense! Think we will have a better chance with those guys calling the plays than our coordinators!
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J-
Don’t be too harsh. Sutton and Shotty made serious half time adjustments. Sutton changed his shirt and Sutton put on new socks. These guys are better than you think!!! -
MD- i believe Favre still wears his Packers Gold Shoulder pads! Every game ive seen that gold underneath his jersey from what looks like his shoulder pads!
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I generally don’t agree with the popular “predictable offense” theory. In fact, I think there is too much tinkering with the systems on both sides of the ball week to week in an effort to outthink the opposing coach. Unfortunately the strategy often goes something like this:
Vizzini: Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Thomas Jones was quoted last week as saying that, in his superbowl run at Chicago, they just had confidence they could run the ball week to week whether a defense stacked 8, 9 guys in the box or not.
I think the Jets are so busy trying to be clever they don’t seem to spend enough time practicing and honing things that they can do so successfully it won’t matter what an opposing D does to try to stop it.
The funny thing is that a lot of the people calling the Jets O too predictable are pining for Bill Cowher. Cowher’s nothing if not predictable. He just happens to be able to get a team to do the same thing over and over again very effectively.
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Does anyone else feel that this team would do better if the players themselves made the play calls? Favre runs the Offense, and Rhodes, Ellis, Pace in charge of the Defensive play calling!
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Nikolas-
What’s lame is the tired whining that Chad would have saved the day. Favre made mistakes yesterday, Chad made mistakes for his team yesterday. The discussion is inane.
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Sean says:
Pass blocking was atrocious. Is it the game planning or do we really need to go out and get a play maker? I think that Coles and Cotch are good enough to get it done. What about Keller? We should have been throwing the ball underneath more often, especially when you have two very good corners covering Coles and Cotch. More of the crossing plays like the one Stuckey took for 31. Every team has used these plays successfully against us and this is a copy cat league. Wouldnt it make sense to send Coles and Cotch on long flys and posts and let Keller and Stuckey do the work underneath.
Chris Baker is not fast and cannot beat many linebackers.
D was not exciting but it was not too bad yesterday. Very Vanilla. Does Sutton take the approach that because Russell is raw we can just go in there and beat him. Why not send the house early and shake him up rather than hoping he screws up on his own?
Did anyone see the press conference? FAVRE looked like he just lost the Super Bowl. He said it was one of the worst losses of his career. WOW. They continue to play like this and there is 0 chance he will be here next year. Get ready for the rebuiliding because Coles probably wont be here either.
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Right on JAS!!!
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God Bless you subway-
This has Vizzini written all over it!! -
18andOne says:
Basset,
Excellent point about Mangini. He had a great season in 2006 by being a hard ass drill sergeant type. As I remember he got a lot of push back from the players (Coles) for being so tough on them.
Now we have the softer, gentler Mangini. The players seem to like him more, but the results are lagging from 2006. The most troubling part is that the Jets are beating themselves with turnovers, penalties, and bone-headed plays. That is a sure tell sign of bad coaching. Mangini needs to correct this or he needs to be fired.
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the hanger says:
Sad day in Jet history. This coaching staff could not find it’s way out of a paper bag…even with it open.
Yes we will beat KC…big deal, go up to Buffalo and win.
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SackDance99 says:
A bad loss. I knew there were problems when, of all players, last season’s MVP, Leon Washington muffs a punt. I thought the offensive game plan was atrocious. Why get cute with the Raiders? Why not put TJ in the I with Richardson in at fullback and run the ball, with the occassional play action? The spread was okay early because I think it was designed to get an early lead, but when TJ started to go through the Raiders D like a hot knife through butter, why not ride him? Also, why let your 39-year old, $12 million QB get pummeled? Hall was giving up a big cushion and the TE (where was Keller?) was generally open. Mangini should remember the old Jets O with Vinny…dink and dunk, run, run, run with C-Mart and, then, the bomb to Dedric Ward for the kill shot. What’s wrong with patience? And, I think the perception of Favre as a mad bomber is inaccurate. Favre’s bread and butter was slants to the WR and seam passes to the TE…stuff designed to get those safeties to move up. I’m getting blue in the face saying this, but no QB in NFL history has utilized his TE better…a past-his-prime Keith Jackson, the mediocre Mark Chmura and Bubba Franks were all Pro-Bowlers because of Favre. I want more TE passes, maybe even double TE and I want to see more Keller.
We knew that a close game would go to the home team with superior special teams. Letting this game come down to an FG was ridiculous. Also, for all the good things the defense did, not getting a turnover was crucial.
I’ll be the Favre apologist here. He was not sharp (to say the least). But, in the endzone, J.Co. slipped. If he had been upright, either he would’ve made the catch or would have been interfered with. The second INT was all on Favre, but it only cost the Jets time. Feely (who is looking better than Nugent after every game) tied up the game anyhow. Second, Baker’s slip when he was wide open was a huge play. He would have easily scampered down into easy FG range. Yes, there were other passes that should’ve been picked, but if Baker makes that catch, game over and another Favre OT win.
I won’t be Debbie Downer here, unless the Jets lose to the Chiefs. The NFL is screwy this season (ask the Cowboys) and it’s dificult to win on the road after a cross-country trip (ask the Chargers, Cardinals, Jets and Pats, etc.). This game came down to a 57-yard FG, that if it had been missed, would’ve left the Jets in complete control. Sometimes the football gods aren’t with you (Baker slips; Janikowski makes a 57-yarder). If the Jets win their next 2 games, they would be 5-3 after an extremely difficult first half of the season…even 4-4 would be okay. Bad loss, yes. End of the season? That’s too far for me, especially this season where crucial injuries seem to occur every week.
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By the way, I agree with all the Mangini criticism. This season, Tannenbaum did everything a GM could possibly do to help a 4-12 team turn it around. Mangini is just not getting enough out of the talent assembled on this team. It’s early and I remember how Coughlin turned it around, but the meter is running. Seeing Cowher in the CBS studio just made me think, would just changing coaches change this team? My answer is a resounding “YES.” Tannenbaum and Woody would be exactly the type of FO Cowher lacked in Pittsburgh…willing to spend money. The Jets run the 3-4; Cowher ran the 3-4 in Pittsburgh. The Steelers ran a ball control smash mouth team that ran to set up the pass; that’s the type of team that the Jets constructed and have now apparently abandoned. Cowher won no matter who the QB was, and his defense was always top notch. If the Jets don’t make the playoffs, hire Cowher. Make him the top paid coach in the NFL. I guarantee that some team will.
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If you are going to credit anyone in pittsburgh for their 3-4, credit dick lebeau … I don’t even think cowher wore a headset … :)
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Cowher is on cbs’ pregame on sundays.
and that comment by the raider CB after the game…
that isnt the first time an opposing player has made that type of comment on SCHOTTS STINKY PLAY CALLING!!!he has to go if we dont make the playoffs with the talent we have on offense.
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Pete57 says:
Conclusions at this point: Favre had a bad game (age, injury?, playcalling all involved).
Jets are a mediocre team right now.
Jets can still make the playoffs.
Barring injuries, there is enough talent for Mangini to get us to the playoffs.
If we don’t make playoffs, it’s on him.
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I just can’t get past the fact that the Jets still have four division games left and two games against one of the league’s best offenses in Denver and defenses in the Titans … that’s a lot of big games to win. they have to win all the games they should at this point (rams, chiefs, seahawks, etc.) and then take three of those games above.
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Steve in China says:
IMHO we lost this game for one reason: coaching. I think we definitely have the players to be in the playoffs. But the coaching, both on offense and defense, seem to be holding us back. Sutton is too conservative, and I think Schotty is simply not good enough.
Coaching can make a huge difference. Look at the Rams. For the first four weeks, they were the worst team in the NFL. Look at them now. Same players, but completely different results. With Brady out, we should be competing with the Bills for the top spot. As it stands now, we’re competing with the Phins for the last spot.
Watching that news conference, I felt disappointment in Mangini. For the first time, I had the realization that maybe he’s never going to get us back to the Superbowl after all. I also was thinking that he will really emulate his mentor in NE in every way. That is, I think he may just be a great coach… later. Maybe in his second HC stint. He’s simply not ready now. He’s in over his head. He needs more experience. We got him too early. I’m sorry to say it, (and I hope time will prove me wrong,) but I’m now thinking he’s not the guy we need.
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just a flat out disgrace. i couldn’t agree more that mangini is not the coach for this team. he never will be. but you do need players. we need a number one receiver in the worst way. someone who even when doubled is still going to get open. is cotchery that guy? i don’t think so. but yesterday was as bad a day of coaching i have ever seen. ever.
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dave says:
Initially, i was devastated after this loss. But looking at our schedule, looking a Patriots team that no longer has a stranglehold on our division, and having originally thought we would lose ONE of these “easy games” (Cincy, KC, Oak, Stl), I’m not gonna start the whole “we’re so done, i can’t BELIEVE how bad we are” speil.
Have a little confidence, know these guys are gonna come out of the gates next week with the drive to show people they’re not a garbage football team. It’s NFL football, you’re gonna drop a game or two that you shouldn’t lose every once in a while. That was hands down one of the worst NFL games i’ve ever seen (i thought it would end in a tie), but I’m still excited for what this team’s gonna show us over the next couple weeks. Maybe this was the time to drop one, knock this team off it’s kilter, and give them a drive to fight hard these next couple weeks and snatch one from the Bills or Pats.
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All Things NY says:
You want the REAL problem with the Jets? OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR!
If Shotty still has a job next year, I will have to think there is a committment problem with Mangini. Is he attached to this guy because hes a good play caller or because they can relate to each other because of their age.
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Bent says: Gimmick infringement! I’ll let it slide…
Favre does wear his old Packers shoulder pads. He’s apparently worn them for years and prefers to continue to wear them rather than “break in” a new set. I don’t think this is a major issue.
With Coles and Cotch both hobbled, the receivers clearly weren’t doing a great job of getting open and the offensive line was overmatched (I guess Woody is hurting or still ill, because Hunter spelled him a few times). Given these two things, there’s not a whole lot they could do differently in terms of opening up the offense.
I do agree they didn’t run the ball nearly enough in the first half and in the second half they seemed to run well on first down but poorly on second downs, leading to many third and short situations, that the Jets whiffed on. By the way, I thought Favre looked like he was playing hurt too. Johnny Styne: is this selfish?
To blitz more would have played into the Raiders hands. Their offense was more or less contained, save for a few big runs as soon as Pouha entered the fray. The Rhodes blitz was poor judgement. Clearly they snapped the ball sooner than expected or Rhodes was out of position. I can’t imagine they designed the play like that. Next week Leon Washington lines up at punt returner and tries to block a punt.
I don’t think it’s so much that the gameplan sucked as that it fell apart when the Jets failed to get the lead. Red zone failures and the Leon muff all contributed to this and prevented the Raiders from having to play from behind, which is where they got into problems last week. (They trailed 10-3 at the half in last weeks 34-3 loss and yesterday’s second half could have been similar if the Jets had a similar lead at the break – which they should have).
Jets need some new cleats. Baker and Cotchery’s slips were noted above, but Brad Smith also slipped when he appeared to be clear on the last drive in regulation. Anyone still want to cut Smith? The guy is a playmaker – I still think they should run the wildcat with him when they are inside the ten.
The fake punt was well designed by the way. They left a gap so Wallace Wright thought he had a chance to block it…but is it (or should it be) legal to fling the ball sideways like that? I cannot believe they tried that from their own 20. That’s the one advantage they had…nothing to lose.
Arizona travels to NY, gets killed. NY travels to SD, gets killed. NY travels to Oakland, loses. SD travels to Buffalo, loses. These cross-country road trips are always tough, for anyone expecting an easy game.
Personally, I don’t look at Cowher as a saviour by any means. Is he even interested in a return to coaching?
Awful performance, but we’ve seen the Jets bounce back from awful performances loads of times. I guess you just have to continue to have faith (or pretend you have)
Long post…sorry.
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GlockNSoul says:
All this talk about schedules, keep one thing in mind – we couldn’t beat the RAIDERS (or, as universally name, the dysfunctional Raiders). If a bottom of the league dysfunctional team beats you (I don’t care if the game is on Mars in a halestorm), there are NO excuses. As Tuna would say, you are what your record says you are. And ANY team that loses to the Raiders is God Awful. If a team with our talent can’t find a way to beat the RAIDERS, there is no shot at the playoffs.
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TOON2388 says:
Guys – enjoy the rest of the season. Too many morons come on here every time we lose and their soap box is “fire the coaches.” See you in 2009
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john sec.125 says:
did “mangina” actually say there was “a lot about the game he was happy with”? is he serious? i couldn’t even watch the postgame. what an inexcusable loss. and tannenbaum? 4th overall pick on someone who doesn’t even play? and woody? i don’t even know where to start with that clown. this organization needs a transfusion fast. sure it’s only october, but yesterday was awful. people in the real world are accountable for their performance and results. to say he was even partly satisfied with that mess, is telling of the whole “jet” mindset.
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Najy says:
Looking back at the offense during the game and throughtout this year, it is strikingly alarming that the Jets can never put a complete game plan together. It seems that every game, its either the passing game is clicking or the running game is clicking; sometimes its niether.
When TJ and the O line can rack up 6.6 yards per carry for 160 yards and J- CO has 1 catch for 0 yards, and LC has 4 catches for 50 yards, and Dusin Keller, who is that? Trust me when i say this, Brett Favre is still a great QB but sometihng is wrong with our O.
Our coaching staff better get their head of their a** because their is no excuse for putting up 13 points against the Raiders when your running game was clicking on all 8 cylinders. It seems to me that our coaching staff does not know how to take advantage of a team that couldnt stop our run. IMO, we should have had a running back in the backfield all game so that they know their is a THREAT to run the ball. Incorporate playaction and pass from running formations and the Raiders wouldnt have known what hit them yesterday.
Instead, we passed from a predictable 5 WR set and ran from a predictable 2 backfield set for the majority of hte game. That is just bad play calling. We didnt even take one shot down field? That is really bad and poor job of the coaching on utilizing the talent on this team. IT IS THE COACHES JOB TO PUT THEIR PLAYERS IN THE BEST SITUATION SO THAT THEY CAN SUCCEED.
You can have all the greatest players in the world but if you dont know how to put them in situations to succeed, ie. playcalling, they will look terribble.
Our D performance was acceptable. Would have like to see them blitz a lot more to generate pressure on Russell and the fact that we couldnt generate a TO was pretty pathetic.
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Bent says:
The team is spending too long searching for an identity offensively.
Asomugha is the best CB in the AFC. He is outstanding. Still DeAngelo Hall was torched by Eddie Royal. Maybe Clowney would have made all the difference. That’s if Favre can even throw downfield at the moment.
I guess Keller wasn’t catching those passes that went to Baker in the first half because he isn’t much of a blocker at this stage of his career and it would have telegraphed the Jets intentions to throw even more to have him in there.
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bent…the fake punt was from closer to mid field…not the 20.
agree that schott seems to get outcoached frequently.
if we dont make the playoffs he is clearly gone.
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klecko71,
What was the comment made by the Raiders CB after the game?
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najy…its in this post’s story from bassett…..
Yesterday after the game, Raiders cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha talked about the Jets coming out with a spread formation early and how predictable what they do is. “That’s the nature of their offense. It works until you figure out what they’re doing.”
and u are 1000% right, ur last post was right on the money. schott is the most predictable play caller in the league. the drive to tie it at 10 was awesome…and we had 418 yards of offense!!! but somehow scored 13 points. yes 1 pick in the end zone…but teams overcome that mistake every week…playoff teams do anyway. spread early was cool…but once OAK caught on, which was fast…favre took shots.
schott has no feel….its obvious….doesnt come up big with his playcalling. the 4th and 1 vs the cards happened b/c we were waaaay ahead…and the playcalling in that game was pretty good overall…but then how the last 2 weeks vs 2 crap teams do we struggle to score??
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and AGAIN….
this isnt the first time an opposing player has publically knocked the jets play calls under schott.
nite nite marty junior…. good luck as some teams QB coach…or TE’s coach…or dad’s errand boy.
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lou says:
We really need to start looking at the Defensive coordinators who will be out of a job for next year. We should create a list and go after them as we did our free agents this year. Sutton is horrible non aggressive and washed up.
Out with his head.
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lou,
I agree with what you are saying to a certain extent. We do have a top ranked defense so far this year in several categories. Yesterday was no expection as we let up only 13 points despite having to overcome 3 turnovers, 1 of them inside our 20.
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JustAGreenGuy says:
How are turnovers the fault of the coaching staff? Can one of the brilliant minds that said that please explain it to me. Leon Washington has recieved hundred of kicks are you telling me that because he fumbled once it is every coach he has had back to Pee Wee footballs fault? As for Favre’s INTs, Holmgren and Mccarthy must be pretty bad too because Favre holds the record for most INTs in league history.
Coaching may be responsible for the bad pass blocking and offense, but stop telling me the Check downs are their fault. Every route has a saftey valve and Brett’s resurgence last year was said to be because he would start dumping off the ball instead of forcing turnovers. Every DC in the league would have made Russel beat us. Guess what he did? The majority deify Favre and point the finger elsewhere. He played the same level of game last week. Doesn’t that say something?
Cowher wont come to NY I can’t imagine a respectable coach who would want to deal with us.
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Fonzie says:
The hanger,
I think you need to be put up back in the closet.
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JustAGreenGuy,
Its the coach’s job to design plays that fully utilize the potential of his team. Please dont be niave, and i mean that in a nice way. TJ averaged 6.6 yards per carry and ran the ball for 160 yards. There is no way anyone can convince me that the Oakland Raiders are that good that they were able to stop us.
1 reception for Cotch for 0 yards??? What about screens to Leon Washington??? How many playactions did we throw all game? 5 wr set is sooo dumb because it is soo freakin predictable. Its kool to open up the game like that to try to catch the Raiders off guard but we over did it. It was reflected in teh score.
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Bent, the buzz is that Cowher wants to return to coaching, but was privately hoping that John Fox would fail in Carolina where he has built a huge mansion with the carbon footprint of a small city. There are also rumors of his going to Cleveland.
I was also wondering about the cleats…were they wearing their field turf cleats on natural grass?
Bassett, I’ve read that crap about LeBeau being the 3-4 guru and Cowher having no say in the D. Yes, LeBeau is a guru, but he was brought into Pittsburgh by Cowher because Cowher, when he was a defensive coordinator for KC, ran the 3-4. Credit Cowher for, like Parcells, finding a DC that believes in his defensive philosophy and was better at implementing it. Also, LeBeau started with Cowher, left for a long time, then came back. I would expect Cowher with Woody’s wallet would bring LeBeau to the Jets.
Look, I like Mangini, like I liked Chad. But, when a superior talent like Favre was available, I thought the Jets should get him. But, unlike Favre, Cowher is only 51 (relatively young for a coach) and is used to staying a long time with a team, not like Parcells. IMO, he’s a superior coaching talent. I’m not bashing Mangini, as much as noticing that there’s a more attractive candidate out there.
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Bent, I’m not superstitious either. I only wish Favre’s GB shoulder pads were the problem. Though thank you for satisfying my curiousity.
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Steve in China,
I think you are a long way away from the Jets right now. I think you should stay in China and start reading some articles about the Jets before you bark on Mangini. Hopefully in China they have the New York Post so you can read how the media loves FARVE and hopefully it is not in Chinese. It is truely something to look at.
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Did I say I liked the play calling? It is constantly hearing people give Favre a free pass. Even Sack said he had a bad game. Sack loves Favre. He chose to check down. He threw the INTs. No one else. Why should anyone else take credit for his mistakes too. Al Davis hates the Jets. This was their Super Bowl (The rematch with Denver will really be, but it was close). I know the Raiders. I have followed them very closely. They aren’t as bad as everyone thinks they are. They are disorganized due to constant turmoil. They have great talent on that team.
As for Cotchery if he was covered by Asomugha (He may be the best corner in the league) that is why he had a poor game. That plus getting injured. Anyone hear about Woody yet?
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Bent-
I was thinking the same thing, that maybe Clowney, or any real speed receiver, could have made a difference. The Raider corners are very good at press coverage and our receivers don’t have the speed to make them pay for overcommitting at the line.
I have a general special teams question I wonder if anyone can answer. What is the value in putting on such a strong punt rush every time, when so few are ever blocked? Wouldn’t it be more advantageous, particularly when you have an exceptional returner like Leon, to drop back into blocking formations more quickly? It seems like on every punt, there’s an all out rush, the kick is not blocked and then the rushers have to turn around and chase down the coverage team, who already have a head start on tackling the returner. This also increases the likelihood of getting burned on a fake, like yesterday, and getting called for a block in the back.
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JustAGreenGuy,
Its the dumb game plan and the coaching’s inability to make adjustments during the game. That is not always the case because sometimes the are effective, but rarely.
I just dont think that our coaching staff is expreienced enough to change the gameplan from week to week. Stick to the basics and stop over complicating everything. I think they get surprised when something works and they ride it out until teams stop it. It seems that they are desperately searching for an identity and to find things that work for the offense.
Schotty needs to take a few Sunday’s off and watch some other teams and how they conduct their offense. Its called… Rhythm.. Can you say that Shotty.. R-H-Y-T-H-M…
My point is that by giong into 5 wr, constantly, you negated to use your running game as a weapon or a threat. Huge mistake. Any one count how many times the Jets ran on 1st down? Better yet, how many times did they throw on first down?
Brett had a bad game, statistically, but how much can you place on his shoulders? Favre isnt afraid to throw the ball but he will dump it off if no one is open. Could it be that we were telegraphing that we were passing the ball? Brett Favre might as well walked up with a sign to line of scrimmage that said.. Stop me, I am passing the ball!!!
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They did stop him. We should have been able to throw our weight around. Brees certainly did. Some one should be open in a 5wr set and Favre should have hit that open person. Unless the play had all 5 wrs in the same spot on the field. My only complaint was the lack of protection it gave Favre. 160 yds on the ground is a weapon btw. That 5wr set killed Az should it have changed yes, but look at Miami. The Wild cat was great until it failed them. I hate Schott, but he can’t be a scapegoat. Maybe our hurt WRs couldn’t get open. We got smacked around yesterday. The players deserve the blame too. They can’t just get all the credit.
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Bent says:
Klecko71 said: “bent…the fake punt was from closer to mid field…not the 20.”
Nope…it was 4th and 2 from the 27.
Sack: thanks for the Cowher information. Bear in mind that the scheme is slightly different, so there would still be an adjustment period if they were to implement the Steelers system (not that I think getting Cowher is likely). Not as much upheaval as 4-3 to 3-4 (or vice versa) though.
Subwayfare: Actually the Jets usually don’t rush punts and do drop into coverage formation – especially when the punt is likely to be returnable. I guess Wright has the responsibility to read where he thinks there is a chance to get there and on this occasion (because of the gap) he thought he did and got sealed inside. Had he read the snap and ran at Alston instead of Lechler, it would have been a five yard loss! Usually teams will just send one or two guys in the hope they get lucky, with the occasional all-out rush to catch them unawares. This wasn’t one of those.
Rightly or wrongly, nobody is going to be cut or benched and no coach is going to be fired. Not now and not next week if the Jets lose again. If and when the time comes it won’t come as a result of calls from the fans (nor should it) so I don’t see what calling for everyone’s head achieves other than reducing the Jets homefield advantage when they play at home.
By all means vent and get it off your chest now, but be ready to support the team when they return home. They’ll need you. The team hasn’t peaked yet and there’s a long way to go.
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Toon 2388–
Don’t go. It’s only 6 games in. I get fed up too, but that’s being a Jets fan. Firing Young Schot may be searching for a scapegoat. The O needs a consistent flow and rhyme and reason. We’ll see if it gets there. KC should be a win, but let’s reserve judgment until Buffalo. Then it may be time to think 2009! -
Andrew Weiss says:
If I was sitting there on every earlier punt saying to myself “watch the fake,” Westhoff should have been. The situation did not require careful analysis.
Mangini also said that it was turnovers and penalties that were the main reason they lost. Atta way to blame the players. I used to think he was more of an accountability guy.
I know I’m still talking out of frustration. I said I’d give it eight games and I will but, like you, BB and others, my patience is wearing thin.
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bent….i suck =) good call on the punt info…
still….dont know when i have seen an offense rack up 418 yards, 242 of them rushing….and need a miracle to tie it…and eventually lose.
schott has no feel….neither does sutton…. and its not just a case of “the fans think they know more”…
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With the players we have now on Defense there should be no reason why we cannot be much more aggresive with the play calling. I think Sutton is way to conservative. Pressure, Pressure, Pressure especially against a quarterback like the Raiders have.
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junior says:
This team is in real trouble!!!! As for where shall i begin. When last season ended and mangini tried to bring in R. Ryan and made him an offer until they were told his services were no longer available to when they had to take gholston due to the fact that run dmc was no longer available and they drafted him due to the fact that the patriots had plans of taking him. To when kellen couldnt beat out chad in the spring and they thought they needed to bring in favre basically saying that kellen wasnt ready and gettting rid of chad. That as well made coles become a baby for a while which slowed cotchery”s progress all the while drafting a te while another one held out due to a hanshake promise which slowed his progress down with favre. Lets not forget tat it was no secret they wanted run dmc which couldnt have made jones happy. I mean this team is in big trouble and it starts from the head coach and trickles down because the pieces are there
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JesusRevis says:
I am as disapointed as all of you but it is unbelievable how many pessimists write on this site. yea the jets lost a game they should have won, and yes they are doing less than we expected but this doesnt mean our season is over. I am writing down all of your names, and when the Jets turn it around and make the playoffs I dont want to hear any of you join in the celebration. I ride or die with the jets, and im looking forwward to the future, not crying about the past. If your giving up already, i feel sorry for you.
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Every single one of you who are calling for all of the coaches to be fired, and tannenbaum to go, and d’brick and gholsten are busts, i will remind all of you how wrong you were. Lets go jets
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JesusRevis,
Hope you are right.
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Jesus Revis,
You are right we should stay positive but I must say my resentment for Sutton comes long before this game. It is a culmative build up of all the frustrating and unaggressive calls this guy makes. I think we can win a playoff game with this guy and I will still want him out. I would rather have our old defensive coordinator Ted Cottrell then Sutton.
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He’s right –we should be positive.
THIS POSITIVELY SUCKS. -
jesusreevis is a fraud. he is my friend and was at my house after the raider game ripping every single player and coach, just like this thread is doing.
the first thing I thought about when my eyes opened this morning was “HOW THE HELL DID WE LOSE TO THE OAKLAND RAIDERS????”