Link: Favre As Savior? Not Exactly.
Mike Lombardi of NFP knee-jerks his way into an analysis of the Jets team by asking:
It’s a good thing the Jets have an easy schedule with the Chiefs coming to town. The question I kept asking myself yesterday after the Raiders game was how bad would the Jets be had they not traded for Brett Favre? The Raiders were the better and more talented team yesterday.
Yes, thank God for Brett Favre and his white horse drawn, golden chariot arriving in New York in the nick of time and saving the day, delivering us to the promised land … a 3-3 record.
So how bad would they be? Well … for starters, the Jets might have had at least three more points had they not thrown a red zone interception that contributed to the team’s loss.
Let’s take a cold look at the reality of the situation. You can make arguments that Brett Favre has won the Jets exactly one game (Arizona) and lost them one (Oakland or San Diego, you choose). Other than that, in wins he was a millstone around the team’s neck with two picks in the Bengals game and fizzled at the end of the Dolphins game unable to move the chains when the Jets needed him (though they mostly ran, and poorly) when they were playing with a lead. At this point, Favre is second in the league in interceptions. I’m not going to play time-machine today, with what-ifs around whether other Quarterbacks were here instead of Favre, but it’s not unfair to argue that he’s hurting the team about the same as he’s helping it at present.
It’s six games already. Yes, Favre has had one truly good game, but that’s it. I hope … no I pray I am proven wrong, but the way the Jets are playing, the way that Mangini is using his quarterback, this team is no better with Brett Favre than they are without him.
Though I imagine that PSL ticket sales are up, which is the most important thing this year to the ownership.
49 Responses to Link: Favre As Savior? Not Exactly.
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Lageman says:
I hate to say it, but watching Sunday was a waste of a fall afternoon. They looked awful, despite getting their best game out of Thomas Jones. Favre’s shoulder has to be pretty messed up, it looked like he was shot-putting the ball instead of throwing it most of the game.
I had hopes this season and still think 9-7 is possible, but if we can’t win that game against Al Davis’s dysfunction, we are in trouble.
We can blame Baker all we want, but it isn’t one play that lost the game, the Jets just looked flat and played from behind all game against a crappy team.
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DannyMazz says:
*ULTIMATE LOCK*
Buffalo 11-5
Pittsburgh 11-5
Tennessee 12-4
Denver 10-6
Jacksonville 9-7
NY Jets 9-7
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cbiscuit says:
Bassett – your last statement sums up why the Jets made the move for Favre in the first place. A large number of us who frequent TJB noted that a healthy Chad with a better surrounding cast would be just as effective (maybe more) as bringing in Brett. Only a few (J. Styne where are you?) subscribed to the ‘Favre As Savior’ crap. At the end of the day, the deciding factor was putting fannies in the seats – and that’s the way this business works.
Having said that, I still believe this team is a work in progress and will only get better, but we are not rebuilding any more. There is too much at stake for the FO, coaches and the QB. WIth road games at BUF, NE and TEN coming up we will see how they respond.
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Harlan Lachman says:
Jim, thank you for the softball question. The answer is easy. Why is Chris Baker on the field? After his pathetic first half where he had a hard time even falling forward on all those catches. Why invest in a Dustin Keller and not use him? Why not do something tricky and line up Cotch as the TE? The personnel moves by the CS are a joke and their conservative nature is always wrong. They were not careful on the punt where if we get it and a first down the game is over. But they are in OT.
This team is a sick joke. If you look at the stats, we out played the Raiduhs except for key failures during the game.
You can put that on players but isn’t it amazing how some coaches and personnel guys always seem to have players perform over their heads around them and others look like KC and the Jets.
harlan
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sec108 says:
DR Z over at SI is putting this one on the coaches as well:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/10/20/jets.psls.ap/index.html
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Brad says:
DannyMazz- Keep dreaming in the jets making the playoffs! I would love to see it happen, but i just dont see it anymore. I think the new york knicks have a better chance in making the NBA playoffs than the Jets have making the NFL playoffs. (off topic, sorry!)
The bottom line is that the Patriots will make it over us! They are 4-2 now. Guaranteed wins for them: Rams, Phins- not losing 2X to them, Seahawks, Raiders! That gives them 8 wins and then they have six more games that should be more competive for them and im sure they will win at least 2, probably 3; giving the patriots 10-11 wins for the season, locking them up for either the division if the bills collapse or the wild card spot!
So its most likely going to come down to the Jets having a better record than the colts, jaguars, or chargers in order for the jets to make the playoffs contending for that last wildcard spot. And the way the Jets are playing, i just dont have that faith in them! The coaching at times, the lack of pressure on the QB at times, Favre’s stupid throws for interceptions, the inconsistent running game or protecting Favre, our suspect secondary. Just overall, the team has been very inconsistent and the coaching has been at times very suspect!
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hank/naples says:
cbiscuit:
Loved your Johnny Styne question. I’ve been asking the same thing !!! I’s funny how people fade away at the slightest sign they are wrong. I still remember how LOUD, proud AND arogant when he proclaimed :
“FARVE IS THE TEAM AND THE TEAM IS FARVE”
I completely agree with you on all your comments. You appear to be very a sensible person.
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Najy says:
hank/naples,
Hate to burst your bubble but Chad there is no way that Chad would have been able to march us down the field with 1 minute left, 0 timeouts, and from the 5 yard line to kick the field goal into overtime.
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Dean Barbella says:
I haven’t soured on Brett. He’s ramping up on Jets playbook and team chemistry. That said, I had hoped our schedule was softa enough to win while Favre and Co. forged into NFL-grade harden steel.
Unfortunately, we squandered an easy win in Oakland that will likely bite us in the ass. Dont lose to K.C.
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Pete57 says:
Right on Najay. Hey Hank, I’m a Favre backer/had detractor and I’m right here. The Phins are getting ready to bench Chad. Please go read the stories. Did Favre have a bad game, absolutely. AGain, the bottom line comes down to this: Favre is better the Chad, period. Letting Chad go was great for this franchise. Lotta season left boys. I’ll take my chances with BF.
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that was supposed to be Favre backer/ Chad detractor
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I still think we can win 11 games. We still have 10 games left. Anything can happen if you stay healthy!!!
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Jose, you’ve got the right attitude. Too many negative thinkers, fans and journalists alike. Staying healthy is extremely important. Let’s go Jets!
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TC says:
Rodney Harrison out for the season!!
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You definitley have to stay positive. I did not wait all year to give up on the season after 6 games, especially when we are 3-3.
On a bright note, if the playoffs where to start today, the Jets would be tied for the 6th spot with Jacksonville, Colts, and Ravens. Read that again… THE 6th SPOT IN THE PLAYOFFS!!!
I know its too early but my point is that its not so bad. Sure we lost to a bad team, but like Coach Parcells says… You are as good as your record says you are!!
Jets are right in the mix of things and there is a lot of footbal let to play.With that said, I think there has to be much improvement on the part of the coaching staff, more so than the players. If a team comes out flat game after game, that is square on the shoulders of the coaches.
Shotty needs to get a clue. There are certain plays that need to be involved in ever offense to keep teams off balance… Playaction, Rb Screens, WR screens. How bout passing on first down for a change? Minor changes need to be implemented and I think we can make a run.
We certainly are not out of contention so lets be a little optimistic. As a fan, there is no point to be mentally defeated when the team is still alive and kicking in the AFC.
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jas says:
Jose-how many years are you giving them to win the 11 games?
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Remember this was a Shotty week-next time we lose because Sutton is even more clueless and then it’s Shotty’s turn again.
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Leon Washington can be one of the best screen runners in the league. Brad Smith can be on of the most dangerous threats in open field.
I watch the Pats game last night and I see screen after screen after screen… THEN THEY SET YOU UP… Get it… its your job as an offensive coordinator to … SET THE OTHER TEAM UP… and go long. Take shots. Run the ball, use screens… How about a god damn counter??? WTF.. this pisses me off when i start thinking about all the lack of offense that we have.
MISDIRECTION plays… OMG… Does anyone here remember the Jets running a counter or does it seem like we just run the ball straight up the 4 and 6 hole or the 3 and 5 hole… So damn predictable in that sense.
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BubbyBrister/shovelpass says:
Gee, with a thread like this one, I’m surprised we haven’t heard from Nikolas yet. After Sunday, I thought he’d be all over this “if we only had Chad” discussion. Can’t you Imagine how awesome the team chemistry would’ve been if Chad had been on the flight home after that loss! (sic)
Look, the Jets have their work cut out for them, no question, but they have shown they can “strap it on” when they have to. I prefer to think about the Steeler game last year at a time like this….
C’mon Jets! Let’s get ‘er done !
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mole57 says:
Coming into the season, we all knew that Favre was old, selfish, and threw lots of interceptions. We knew there was a risk-reward balance. We knew the guy was a rollercoaster ride (just look at last season and his final game against the Giants). That’s what happens with him. He had a bad game (and he still almost pulled it out). He also had a freaking awesome game against Arizona. We know he is going to play when he’s hurt and he won’t be as effective when he does. But all-in-all, I still think it’s an upgrade over Chad, and at the very least, it makes the games more watchable.
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ramble914 says:
This crap happens. It sucks, but it happens. And it seems to be the way this year. One week a team looks unbeatable, the next, they look awful. Look at NO, they whipped Oakland two weeks ago, and then get blown out by Carolina. Same with Indy, and a lot of other teams.
I wish they (the Jets) would have won, but they didn’t. I’ll be rooting for em next week. Same as I always do.
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Joe B. says:
Bassett, thanks for posting this. Wherever Favre goes, it seems that hack journalism isn’t far behind.
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dawg says:
I dont like schottenheimer.
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BIG BAD JET says:
This is a rebuilding year…. we need another few years
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I dont like schottenheimer.
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18andOne says:
I think we all need to step back from the ledge and take a deep breath. Sure, the Jets blew a game they should have won. That doesn’t mean the season is over. Unlike last year, the Jets can fix their problems within the season. We know they have the talent, and Mangini and Schott aren’t complete idiots (Herm I’m looking at you). The biggest problem is that with all the new faces they haven’t figured out what they’re good at and what they need to improve upon. One game we throw the ball all over the field the next game we can’t complete a pass to save our lives. One game we can’t run for $hit and the next game we rack up 242 yards. Same problem with the defense to a degree. Mangini and Schott will get it together to a degree and finish strong like usual. However, it may not be enough to reach our expectations.
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subwayfare says:
Basset, you essentially just critiqued Lombardi’s “knee jerk” reaction with one of your own.
Favre won us this game and lost that one… This is as irrational and unscientific an exercise as there is since it doesn’t take into consideration things like receivers (or tight ends) falling down, bad routes, missed blocks, etc. A great deal of key data regarding what the play call was, what was supposed to happen is unavailable, making such conjecture empty and pointless.
Anyone expecting Favre to be a “savior” is even crazier than the average insane Jet fan. A more rational assessment would have been that one of the most talented QBs ever to play the game, even in his twilight years, coming in during training camp, might give the Jets a slightly better chance to win than an oft-injured, less talented, albeit solid and prepared QB, fluent in the system. Even if the comparison projected as a wash, the chance that the old pro could possibly catch lightning in a bottle one more time made the switch probably worth the gamble. The fact that the move may also have helped sell seats is simply added value, not the sole reason for making the change. Not everything in life is black or white or mutually exclusive.
There are ten games left. A win against KC will quiet a lot of the hysteria. But for the love of everything holy will everyone please erase the term “easy part of the schedule” from their glossary? It’s been proven over and over this year that there are no easy games in the NFL.
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Dan C says:
Go easy Bassett – they lost as a team.
Thomas Jones would have been stuffed all day with 8 guys in the box if it wasn’t for Favre. Of course he has his shortcomings…he plays erratically. But didn’t we have 15 years in Green Bay to glean all that?
Blame the playcalling all you want, but the players are the performers and they didn’t get it done Sunday.
Lets crush the Chiefs and send Thigpen back to yesterday.
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Alex Klenert says:
I think the overriding thing that hasn’t been addressed is the coaching staff as a whole. I am shocked Westoff (as good as he is) was caught unprepared for the fake punt.
I think it’s par for the course that Bob Sutton is over-matched by every other D coordinator in the league and consistently shows how poor he is as gameplanning (no pressure of an inexperienced QB? Shades of how soft his play calling was against NE).
And Shotty with the offense play calling, where do I even begin? What were they thinking going to a spread offense for most of the first quarter that only put up 3 points? I real D coordinator (Rob Ryan) made good adjustments and stopped them by blitzing Favre. For all the yards that Thomas Jones had, they were wasted because he should have had more based on how poor the play calling really was.
But it all comes down to Mangini overreacting to things and trying to outsmart his opponent with “aggressive” overall schemes that get too cute and the only person he is outsmarting is himself.
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Alex-
There you go. Now if we could everybody to keep reading your post over and over. These guys are way too cute and get out coached every week. My head will explode if Herm out coaches them. We’re favored by 12-anybody believe that? -
Jake says:
Why all the blame on Favre? How about the pricey new O-Line not protecting him, or our receivers not getting open? Did Cotchery even play Sunday?
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Bad play calling leads to bad playing
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JustAGreenGuy says:
I believe it. If we lose to the Chiefs fire everybody. The whole front office and roster. Everybody,
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SackDance99 says:
Geez, was that a Bassett post or has Cimini taken over Bassett’s soul? If you focus on Favre INTs, then he’s not the QB for you. Period. Yet, despite the picks, Favre has the most wins, TDs and consecutive starts of any QB in NFL history. He’s had exactly 1 losing season in his career and is a sure first ballot HOF’er.
Now, blaming Favre for the pick by Wilson is 100% horsebleep. What QB in the NFL would not have pulled the trigger on a pass to his WR who is in front of the DB and across the goal line? He was open and Favre had a clear line to him. What happened? J. Co. slipped and Wilson had an easy INT. So, Chad wouldn’t have thrown to a wide open J. Co.? Or, KC? Or, Ratliff? Or, Ainge? I guess Favre should also be a pre-cog out of Heroes, too.
I had much more of a problem with the 2 redzone picks in the Cincy game. Those were “gunslinger” throws that Favre didn’t need to throw. But, that’s Favre (as it was Namath), they put the ball up and expect their WRs to make plays. Maybe, just maybe, it’s the WRs that have to adapt to Favre? I mean, he’s going to the HOF, Coles and J. Co. have 1 Pro Bowl between them.
I think that focusing on the move to acquire Favre as just a PSL move denies the fact that he’s a better QB than Chad, KC or all but a few other QBs in the NFL. Isn’t it a front office’s duty to improve the team when it can? And, isn’t QB the most important position in team sports?
Lastly, Favre didn’t play well against the Raiders, but the reason why he didn’t play well is what we should be answering. I think Bassett is implying that Favre is just too much of a “gunslinger” and his poor decisionmaking cost the Jets against either the Chargers or Raiders (take your pick). My response is, “Oh, really?”
There were lots of poor plays and calls in the Raiders game, like: Leon’s fumble (easy 3 points..the margin of victory), Baker, J. Co. and Smith all slipping at inopportune times, Damien Woody making T. Scott (a rookie) look like Strahan and nearly getting Favre killed, Leon failing to catch a simple pitch, Elam’s facemask (probably cost a FG), and that delayed blitz by Rhodes that left the middle open for Miller in OT. Also, how about the fact that the D didn’t sack Russell or produce a turnover? And, I have another coaching pet peeve with Mangini…why doesn’t he defer when the Jets win the coin toss? Why not put the Raiders weakness–their offense –on the field first? With 3rd quarter woes, why not get the ball to start the 3rd quarter?
All I know is if this team starts to develop a Favre-like personality–I’ll take the “gunslinger.” Let’s march right down to the OK Corral, guns blazing, knowing its an ambush, but being too much of a badass to care–I hope this team develops that kind of guts on offense because that 39-year old guy was getting the snot beaten out of him and he was a Baker slip and a 57-yard FG away from winning the game, after he, with no time outs and on his own 5-yard line, drove the Jets in 1:12 to a game-tying FG.
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Ed says:
I was all for Brett, and still am. Folks, even if the year turns out to be a loss, the Brett trade was a good thing because we got rid of our beloved Chad. So regardless of what happens this year, the team will be forced to move forward on QB, which is one of the main things that’s been holding us back.
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Everyone needs to get of Bassett’s back and realize what he was trying to say here. This post wasn’t made with the intention to trash Favre, but rather to point out how ridiculous it is to say that the Jets would be significantly worse without him. I agree with this. Favre has had his good moments and bad, but aside from the Arizona game, he hasn’t done anything statistically that Clemens or Pennington couldn’t do.
No one is suggesting that Favre should get all of the blame for what’s gone wrong, but he can’t get all of the credit for what’s gone right, either.
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This NOT about Favre. He is a great QB. The play calling was getting him killed. How’s this for a revelation-if they blitz you run screens or delays. Someone get that to Shotty. Favre was getting killed and Shotty just kept running the same crap over and over.
For DAWG-you are so correct-the play calling is horrible(as well as the defense calls)
Fro greenguy-if we lose to Herm Bassett is fired as well and the Koolaid crowd can stop alibiing for the Staff. -
James in TN says:
Ed is right , it is a win no matter what hopefully Mangini follows Chad to miami as a ballboy.
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John says:
Hey Everyone,
Let’s get off of Favre’s back and talk about our multi million dollar O line that let the pocket collapse on Brett in a hurry all damn day. This Offensive line should be a hell of a lot better for the money spent on them. -
The Hanger says:
This team has never had a true QB since Joe Willie. Brett is not the answer and is only here because FO failed to draft Cutler!!!
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Lafflin says:
I have to take this opportunity to point out that Favre lost this game by making terrible decisions. It was as if he was trying to lose.
And I’ll say it again, Chad brought us to the post season each and every year he played the majority of the season! Check the stats! And he’s not doing so bad down in Miami. -
Dorothy says:
Don’t see how everyone can blame Brett….first of all the 1st INT…Crochery fell down, the second INT…Crochery stopped his route. The play calling….what play calling….run, run, expcect Brett to get 1st down with pass. I predicted most of the plays. Please Jets mix it up, throw some slants, comebacks etc. Brett looks awlful because he is expected to pass on 3rd down all the time and with a pass rush…..need to mix it up and let him do his thing. The year the packers were 4-12 this is exactly what the play calling looked like. Last year 13-3…..mixed it up (run, pass)…passing short, medium.
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In a lot of cases they were bringing more people than we had lineman. That was Schott’s fault for not leaving a back in the game to block for him and Brett’s fault for not finding the guy who had to be open with them sending more than 4 with 5wrs on the frickin field. He did fidn teh open man often tho and then got smashed.
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counter plays, screen plays, misdirection plays, then a run to the middle with jones. How about if we put leon and smith on the same play. you can do many things w/ that. Line up Leon as a wide receiver and Brad as a RB. two TE on the left and run left to Brad. Or have Leon in motion and fake to Brad and throw a screen to Leon to the left. be creative Schotty. You have the tools.
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Eddie DiGio says:
Jose great stuff. Unfortunately for us they probably couldnt even get that kinda stuff off without getting illegal procedure or formation with all the garbage they do before the play. Schotty is terrible and does not belong calling plays. Its mangini job to recognize this and show him the door. Also Id love to see him take off the defensive play calling. They need to be creative like u said and also be looking for the kill shot more often. 2nd &3 no bubble screen or 2 yd drag, skinny post rt off a PA fake, have favre put it on someone. Until they start thinkin with that attitude, they’ll continue to have no rythym or the appearance that they have clue of what the approach is on offense
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I would really like to ask Mangini about what they practice on in practice. And why doesnt it show up in the Games?
i want someone who is blaming the coaching staff to explain to me how coaching is to blame for chris baker, all alone and untouched falling down on the play that would have won it in overtime a coaching problem…or how favre missing a wide open dustin keller on 3rd down in overtime is a coaching problem…they threw the G%$#!!!amn ball…they didnt make plays that were there….nothing at all to do with coaching