Through the Pressbox Glass – Part One
I’ve always thought it would be fun to cross the threshold into The Pressbox. Here’s my thoughts from my first foray. Although for all the fun, there were some constrictions that you shouldn’t overlook. All in all it was a fun experience. Check out the pictures and my experiences below.
The Lead Up: Getting Amped for Gameday
After an early start but eager drive down from Massachusetts, I arrived at the stadium around 11:00 AM. I took a quick wander around the parking lot to check out some tailgaters and enjoy the beautiful weather before heading into the stadium. These guys had a converted toolbox that they sued as a grill that they called their “ghetto grill.” It was pretty fun to check it out and learned how it worked. I might be trying to make one of those someday …
There wasn’t a lot waiting for me inside the gates at that point, as there’s no field or player access pre-game (I called Boland to get a sense of things) for press, so I thought it would be nice to share a few moments with fans before plunging into the press circuit. I walked a bit, took some more pictures of folks grilling and then headed back to the gate.
Once through security and in the box, I made my way towards the front. My plan was to find a seat, get set up and then wander around looking for some of the folks I know and say hello. At the point I came in, there weren’t a lot of people around to help so it took me a bit to find my (assigned) seat. During the time I was looking, I could hear Joe Namath’s voice, hovering above my head. I scampered around but couldn’t see him, but I was sure it was his unmistakeable deep and twangy voice that I heard somewhere.
Finally on the right track to find my seat, I passed through a narrow hall. There before me was Joe Namath, smiling and walking my way. So stunned to see him up close, my first concern was to get out of his way, but I smiled back and passed by, unsure of the proper way to pay obeisance to a living legend, and hoping for a second chance. It never came. Doh.
Once I found my seat, I dropped my things and headed towards most of the noise in an adjacent room, what I had determined to be the buffet line. While getting in line, I bumped into SNY’s Steve Overmyer who I had met a few times before.
Overmyer had just been asked to interview Kim Cattrall (a Jets game celebrity) and he was trying to figure out how to get some pictures of Custer, Buttle and Lucas for her to play style critic. I chuckled and said it was a great idea, guessing that Overmyer was relishing the thought of having some fun at his colleagues’ expense when it came to their style. I wished him luck and got in line. The buffet was replete with a full breakfast (you want eggs honey? No. Bacon? No. Sausage? No.) and deli meats for sandwiches. I opted for the latter.
As it turned out, Erik Boland (who I met at training camp) from Newsday was a few spots ahead of me in line got my attention and grinned. Feeling very much like a new kid in the cafeteria on the first day of school, I sat with Boland and Greg Bishop of The Times, relieved to have someone to sit with and talk to and chatted about the Olympics (Greg got to go) and talked Jets shop for a bit while we ate. Some other Newsday writers (Wally Matthews and Roderick Boone) joined us later who were equally friendly.
After finishing my sandwich, I walked around a little more trying to find a few more folks I am acquaintances with. I stopped by Jane McManus’ spot and said hello. Jane was glad to talk and I encouraged her for asking some tough questions last week to Mangini about Jets players and concussions, and we chatted for a bit about how the team treats injuries. I was sitting near the other side of the press box and started heading back because the gametime was getting close and I wanted to get set up. I saw Boland again, who introduced me to one of his co-worker’s Bob Glauber, who apparently took Boland to task (thanks!) for joking me on his blog. I headed back to my seat and got ready for the start of the game.
I caught up with the folks in the seats around me. Dan Leberfeld was a few seats down, and was very kind and conversational. We had a good discussion about his Friday run-in with Mangini about injuries. Looking at the sitiuation, I see where both were coming from and why they feel strongly about their opinions. I just wish the Jets were winning and then questions like this wouldn’t feel so important. I talked to some other folks from Scout.com and then got down to work.
The Gametime Experience: The Grass is Equally Green
During the game it was a totally new feeling for me. In a sentence? Imagine watching a Jets game while working in an office. There was something very sterile about it. You can hear the fans, the fireworks make the pressbox shake (they’re set off overhead) but it’s all very still in the box.
I also experienced a new sensation at a game. Comfort. I was sitting in an office chair with a soda on the table, in a climate controlled room, PR people running by with updated stats sheets. I leaned my chair back, to catch replays of controversial plays shown on CBS, I leaned forward to catch the game more closely, I stood up to stretch my legs … it was quite enjoyable.
That said, it all seemed very odd (but cool) to me. After each play, someone in the press box would announce the outcome of each play “Pass thrown by Thyler Thigpen intended for Dwayne Bow, pass defensed by Darrelle Revis” or of a drive. It was a great system and helped me as I wrote game updates. Also every once in a while, “the Westwood One guy” in the third tier of the box would relay game updates via phone (”Brett Favre just threw his third interception of the day …”) to the national radio broadcast team.
So there I was, attending a game of my favorite team, but one where I was surrounded by people baning out words on laptops. I wanted to cheer and shout like so many I could hear in the stadium were, but I knew this wasn’t exactly the place for it. What I ended up doing was talking to myself or trying to say witty things to the people sitting next to me. There was one notable exception, when Leon Washington fireman carried the punter on his back for a few yards. I caught myself standing, clapping and whooping. Whoops indeed.
Bottom line? You can act crazy if you want in your own seat at a game but in the pressbox there’s a totally different set of protocols. I’m sure this won’t by my last trip to the press box, but all I’m saying is that there’s a lot of value to sitting in seats you paid for, high-fiving strangers and cheering as loudly as you can to stop an opponent’s drive.
You know how the game went, and with the final gun. There was relief at Coles’ stunning catch and everyone filed their stories as quickly as they could, packed up their things and headed downstairs to get some soundbites from coaches and players. I got up and just followed the crowd.
Tomorrow, the player interaction, Brett Favre walking like an old man and some more name-dropping.
Filed under: Main Page
You’re just lucky Namath didn’t try to kiss you!
Bent, I was about to say the exact same thing, word for word. Hilarious.
Bassett, great insight into the press box. One question: what were the updated stat sheets like? What kind of info did they contain? Anything we don’t normally see on TV coverage?
In defense of Chad Pennington
The Jets: Evaluating Favre after half the season
By chance I was in New York, in August, for a couple of days this summer. I attended a Jets practice two days before their preseason game against the Cleveland Browns. The team looked good in practice (especially the defense), and every one of the fans were a buzz of the quarterback competition. Pennington vs Clemens. Pennington, despite the Jets organization wanting Clemens to win or be close, was definitely outperforming Clemens as was expressed by Jets beat writers and a Jets fan site thejetsblog.com. Shockingly, obviously unaware at the time, I had seen the last open Jets practice with Chad Pennington on the team. Late that night or the following evening, the Jets had traded for Brett Favre. Pennington was released the next afternoon. As posted earlier, I was shocked and very much against the move. But what was the reaction of Jets fans and the media in New York? They loved the move! They lauded it. The Jets had replaced the defending Super Bowl Giants off the back covers of the newspapers for a couple of weeks. People were happy. The media and Jets fans unanimously thought this was a tremendous move by the Jets. Has no one seen Packers games? I understand that I have lived in Wisconsin for the past 2 years, but I was fairly sure that the whole country has access to seeing every team with highlights nowadays. Apparently, I was wrong. Pennington who led the team to the playoffs in 2002 (AFC East Champions), 2004, and 2006 was suddenly trashed. In 2004, he was a Doug Brien missed field goal and atrocious decision making by Coach Edwards away from defeating the #1 seed Pittsburgh Steelers in Pittsburgh. He was so close to leading the Jets to the AFC Championship Game against evil New England. All of a sudden Pennington was trashed by everyone, the media and the fans. My mouth dropped hearing this.
So how is that move by Tannenbaum and Mangini progressing? Terribly. This last game against the Chiefs was almost unwatchable. I have not seen such horrid quarterback play for the Jets since Bubby Brister or possibly Glenn Foley. Quarterback play and the coaching decisions this year have been atrocious. Some weeks the coaches let Favre loose, and other weeks he does not even attempt a mid range or deep pass all game. After seeing the latter, I seriously wondered if Chad Pennington was even allowed to throw the ball deep in games? It seems like that was the case in retrospect. Pennington has great numbers when he does throw deep, he has shown that this year with the Dolphins when he has thrown the long ball. It seems like the “weak arm” excuse is an excuse. The Tannenbaum and Mangini dictatorship has been more about ball control and not making turnovers, thus Pennington was not allowed to throw deep. But this is all subjective, are there any objective facts? Yes!
Who has more interceptions? Brett Favre leads the NFL in interceptions with 11. Chad Pennington only has 3. Who has more yards passing? Chad Pennington. Pennington has 1710 yards passing, Brett Favre has 1611 yards passing. Who has the higher passer rating? Chad Pennington. Pennington has a rating of 100.5, while Favre has a rating of 89.5. Over and over again, people say Pennington has a weak arm and all his passes are dump offs and short passes. How do we measure that? The yards per attempt stat!!! Who has the higher yards per attempt average? Not only does Pennington have the higher yards per attempt average of 8.5 yards per attempt, but he is second in the entire NFL! The “gunslinger”, Brett Favre, is tied for 18th in the league with a 6.9 yards per attempt average. Pennington receives 23% more yards per attempt than Favre. Now, Favre does have 15 touchdown passes to Pennington’s 7. However, at least 3-4 of Favre’s touchdown passes have been inside the 3 yard line, in which normal teams run for an easy rushing touchdown. Brett Favre also has 6 fumbles, 2 lost, while Chad Pennington has 1 fumble, 0 lost. Brett Favre behind an expensive and more talented offensive line has been sacked 16 times for 126 yards lossed, while Pennington has only been sacked 11 times for 68 yards lossed. It has been said that Favre is better able to elude a sack than Pennington. That is not the case, in addition when there is no hope for a play Pennington throws the ball away while Favre takes the sack or throws an interception. Favre has in total 17, either interceptions or fumble, to Pennington’s 4.
In summary, Favre has been sacked more often for more yards lossed per sack on average. Favre also has a fewer yards per attempt average than Chad Pennington. Favre has more interceptions than Chad Pennington. Favre has more fumbles than Chad Pennington. A statistic during a Monday Night Football game, Jets vs Chargers, said that Favre has never in his career led his team back from a deficit of 10 or more points. Chad Pennington has. It seems Favre is more of a “game manager” type of quarterback. Not someone you want quarterbacking your team when you have a deficit. With a lead or down by 2 touchdowns I and the numbers say you should take Chad Pennington over Brett Favre every time.
Oh wait, I forgot! It’s the receiver’s fault, and in this case, this columnist’s fault.
My friend, the Bills fan, response:
Finally! You’re 1 game out of first and in the middle of the wild card hunt right now. What more do you want? Granted, you’ll be lucky to finish above .500, but that was going to be the case with or without Pennington. You can reference all of the blogs that you want, but the Jets staff was going to give Clemens every opportunity to win the starting job. Pennington would have been a backup this season, so you still wouldn’t have seen him play. Here’s a stat for you too, Chad Pennington’s career record: 35-34, Brett Favre: 164-96. Have fun spinning that one to make your boyfriend look like the better choice.
My response:
1. What more do I want? I would have liked them to beat the Oakland Raiders, and I would have liked the Jets to beat a Brady less Patriots team at home. So a 6-1 record would be realistic with Pennington in charge.
2. “You can reference all of the blogs that you want, but the Jets staff was going to give Clemens every opportunity to win the starting job.”
I believe I mentioned this in the article. What you fail to mention is that Clemens was so bad, that Pennington had won the competition. In fact, you do not even mention that Kellen Clemens barely edged out Brett Ratliff for the #2 job. And Ratliff was drafted just 1 year earlier and has yet to see any game time. So why don’t you mention Ratliff almost pushing Clemens to the #3 job?
3. Brett Favre’s career record, 164-96. Hmmmmm. But what is Favre’s record since Pennington has been a starter? 59-43. (105-53 is magically gone). We’re not getting 90s Favre, we’re getting Millenial Favre. Now the average person would say, 59-43 is still better. But both you and I know how terrible the NFC has been the last 10 years compared to the AFC. In particular, the Lions and Bears have been very bad during this time period. Yes, the Bears did have one good year during this stretch, but the rest have been terrible. The Vikings post-Daunte have been lost. The AFC has been incredibly tough. While NFC teams have qualified with 9 or 8 wins for the playoffs during this time period, 10 win AFC teams have been left out. The Patriots, Colts, Steelers, etc. have been dominant as are other very good teams in the AFC. So the Jets as well as the Bills and other AFC teams have faced such stiffer competition.
4. What is Favre’s record against the AFC during this time period? 12-12. Hmmmm, isn’t that similar to Pennington’s record?
Some stats on the deep pass between Favre and Pennington:
From ESPN.com’s Tim Graham AFC East blog:
The Elias Sports Bureau never fails to unearth fascinating numbers.
Here are some stats I’ll bet you didn’t know about Brett Favre and his Jets predecessor, Chad Pennington:
Favre is known for his grenade launcher, while Pennington has been ridiculed for a throwing arm that dangles like a wet dishrag.
But take a gander at their stats over the past four years on attempts 20 yards or longer.
Player GS Att Comp Pct Yds Avg TD Pct Int Pct Rating
Pennington 40 108 39 36.1 1331 12.3 13 12.0 4 3.7 107.7
Favre 64 290 82 28.3 2963 10.2 32 11.0 35 12.1 66.9
From the Elias Sports Bureau
Pennington didn’t go deep as often, but he was much more effective when he did. His amazing passer rating of 107.7 dwarfed Favre’s 66.9.
The main reasons for the disparity were Favre’s interceptions and Pennington’s judiciousness. Only 3.7 percent of Pennington’s passes got picked off. Favre’s daredevil antics helped inflate his interception rate to 12.1 percent.
Favre threw more than twice as many touchdown passes of 20 yards or more. But Pennington, the infamous soft-tosser, had a higher completion percentage and yards-per-attempt average.
Who’d a thunk it?
Me. And anyone who’s seen both Pennington and Favre play.
pound4pound–
nothing special, they would hand out statistical boxscore updates and drive information as well. I could retrieve it on my laptop, but it was nice for them to be helping out the beat writers who were writing game stories for their publications.
Mark-
Chad is gone. I have seen both the stats and Chad’s deep balls. He throws ducks. It is an ugly deep ball. His arm strength was criticized because his short to medium passes lack zip. We shouldn’t have made the trade, but even if we cut Favre, Chad wouldn’t return to the roster. We need to move on with what we have.
The tediously long and redundant post above comparing Favre and Pennington’s 2008 seasons seems a little premature to me. While Favre has had his Frankenstein moments in leading the Jets erratic offense, and Chad has been his judicious, reliable, old self, I’ll wait till the weather changes and the balls aren’t floating through gentle, fall breezes before making the comparison. Though I truly hope that by then everyone else will be as bored as I am with the exercise. However, even now, while Chad has the edge in rating, yards and completion percentage (just barely) Favre is ahead in TDs, points and wins. Personally, I prefer the latter grouping but to each his own.
JustAGreenGuy you say, “He throws ducks. It is an ugly deep ball. His arm strength was criticized because his short to medium passes lack zip.”
Yeah, so what??? Football is not a beauty contest. It is a results oriented game. I am so sick of Chad haters complain about how ugly his throws are. He is the most accurate quarterback in NFL history!!! Completions get 1st downs. 1st downs sustain drives. Drives results in points. You need to points to win a game.
You are right, he is off the team and we have to deal with what we have. Which is currently a very poor decision making quarterback. He needs to make better decisions. The team should run on 1st down more often. Leon Washington HAS to have more touches in games. And no more stupid empty backfield shotgun formation on 2nd and 1 or 3rd and 1 or inches.
At the same time, this a fan site. The Jets coaches do not take our imput. We have no say in what the Jets do. So we can discuss the differences between where this team would be with Favre or Pennington. And the way Chad was treated by Jets fans was atrocious. Their has to be some kind of age gap between Jets fans. The teenagers are spoiled Jets fans. They have seen the Jets make the playoffs kind of regularly. Older Jets fans are used to 4-12, 6-10 seasons as the norm, and are very thankful for the heart that Chad Pennington gave to the fans and the organization.
And to subwayfare, Pennington’s #1 receiver is Camirillo. His tight ends are cast offs Fasano, and Packers reject David Martin. How can you compare the Dolphins receivers to the Jets, are you serious? And I forget, did the Dolphins beat the Chargers? How did Favre and the Jets do? Our points are way overinflated with the Chargers game (prevent defense) and Kurt Warner giving us the ball inside their 20 how many times?
The Chad v. Favre comparison won’t die for lots of reasons, but here’s my take: Favre is strongest where Chad is weakest and vice versa. Favre has one of the great arms in NFL history. An absolute cannon and he throws effortlessly. Chad has a weak-arm and he labors to throw a deep pass or a pass with zip. Don’t let those deep balls fool you. Chad can heave a “deep” ball right down the middle of the field, but it’s the deep out that is THE deep pass in the NFL and Chad cannot hit that pass. Anyone who has seen 2006-era Chad knows that’s the case. Favre is a “gunslinger” and takes chances, especially deep; Chad is a methodical, game-manager. Favre is a great improviser; Chad can execute a game plan. Favre is mediocre when it comes to QB rating; Chad is a QB rating god. Favre throws lots of TDs and INTs; Chad does neither. Favre is an ironman and has never missed a game start; Chad has had an injury-prone career that has taken a toll on his arm. Favre can win “ugly”; Chad, for the most part, needs everything to go perfectly for him to win.
Also, I think it’s pretty ridiculous to compare Favre to Chad after just 7 games. But, as subwayfare points out, Favre has more TDs and wins, which pretty much sums up the careers of Favre and Chad.
I agree. Hell I was pushing Chad out the door. They beat the Pats and the Chargers with a lot of wildcat looks. He beat Buffalo tho. Him and Clemens were judged harshly from last year. I wanted an upgrade over Pennington, but that was because I was sick of his turnovers in key situations. Do you think Favre has been my cure? Let Chad go do what he does. All that he is to the Jets right now is the projected week 17 QB of a division opponent.
Ginn is exceptionally quick tho and he made Chad look great last week. We should keep an eye on him. He will annoy us for years.
Mark, the Chargers are 1-4 on the road; 2-1 at home. Do you really think Chad and Miami would’ve beaten that Charger team on Monday Night? The biggest lock in football is betting against a West Coast team playing on the road against an East Coast team at 1:00 pm (which is 10:00 am according to their biological clocks). Miami at home, in the rain, against the Chargers? I wish the Jets had been that lucky.
Every year Pennington has been healthy he has led the Jets to the playoffs. That is a fact. It was revealed this offseason that Pennington got injured in Week 1 of last year (was it some leg injury?) and the Jets never revealed the injury until this offseason. It was reported on this very site. It is a very valid point to bring up that he is injury prone. But when healthy he has NEVER failed in taking us to the playoffs. How quickly people forget. Yes, the team was 4-12 last year. They had a tremendous amount of injuries. The year before they were 10-6 and made the playoffs. This team was more like the 10-6 team since it was healthy. In addition, they made tremendous changes in the offseason, to improve the running game and the defense. This team definitely had an expectation of making the playoffs because of the moves and because they are more similar to the 10-6 team. This improvement that the media and Jets fans are giving for Favre because the team went 4-12 is pure spin and outrageous. For Favre to be a success for this team and Jets fans, he has to make the AFC championship team. This team with Chad was a team that would make the playoffs and win a game. If Favre is truly better than Chad, 2 wins and thus an appearance in the AFC Championship is a successful year. Mangini and Tannenbaum placed this expectations when they went “all in”. We should hold them and Favre to that expectation if he is truly “better” than Pennington.
Once again, Pennington’s yards per attempt are second in the league. That suffices any talk about the long ball or “weak arm”. End of story.
Mark, I didn’t compare the Jets receivers to Miami. I didn’t initiate any comparisons because, frankly, I find it pointless.
And, for the record, this is my 41st year as a Jet fan. And Chad, to me, is just a blip on the radar, another in a long line of QBs who were almost good enough.
SackDance99 you bring up very valid points about the Chargers traveling from the west coast. But it also works the other way too. Eastern teams traveling west also struggle. Not to the extent as vice versa. So I guess if we played Arizona at Arizona we would have lost too. Arizona destroyed Buffalo at home. They have beaten the Cowboys before all this debacle that has happened with the Cowboys. So you taketh and you giveth. It cancels out.
Subwayfare, you did make the comparison. You compared Chad with Brett and said, “Favre is ahead in TDs, points and wins. Personally, I prefer the latter grouping but to each his own.” A statement like that is only valid when both teams have equal talent. The Jets definitely have more talented receivers and offensive line than the Dolphins. If Chad had the same he would achieve the same or better.
You’ve been a fan for 41 years, when has there been a time during that period when the Jets made the playoffs 3 times over a 6 year period?
We may have different expectations. I am used to 4-12 and 6-10. I obviously want them to win the Super Bowl, but I think it is a successful season in general to make the playoffs. If for you, it’s all or none than I can see where you’re coming from. But are you only satisfied with the Jets only 1 season and then possibly half satisfied twice with 1982 and 1998?
Also, people wrote off Peyton Manning as not being able to win in the playoffs because of his many early defeats, but eventually he was able to make the jump. Who’s to say Chad couldn’t? Favre also took several years in the playoffs before going all the way.
three words….CHAD IS GONE!!!!
Mark, one thing you can’t argue with, Chad’s gone.
Mark,
Bottom line in this league is winning games. Say what you want, but Brett Favre is a proven winner who has won big games.
I dont care if Brett throws 5 ints in a game…. but if he can lead us in the 2 minute drill to win the game, I will take him any day of the week.
My biggest issue with Chad was his inablity to run the 2 minute huddle. He plain and simply sucked at it. It was almost guarnteed that (1) we were giong to run out of time or (2) Chad was going to throw the int.
In the last 2 games, I have seen Brett bring us from the jaws of defeat, drive us down field and give us a chance to win. More than I can say for Chad in his 8 year tenure.
I thought we beat this horse to death but apparently not.
You know, we should never have gotten rid of John Riggins. Man he was a beast for the Redskins.
We could’ve drafted Marino, Brady, Cutler and Joe Flacco! Let’s talk about that!
If Vinny didn’t get hurt in 99′, SuperBowl!
Again, anyone who can’t let go of Chad should become a Dolphin fan, because obviously at this point you are not a Jet fan.
I realize that. I seem to notice the most on Sundays, when Favre consistently throws in double and triple coverage. I’m just making the point that it was the wrong decision, and will hamper the organization. Don’t people second guess decisions all the time in sports?
All I am saying is Favre sucks. He is overrated. He has his moments where he makes a good play but then gets cocky and keeps on pushing it usually leading to an interception. We were better off with Pennington. With our schedule there are no excuses not to make the playoffs. We need to give Leon the ball more often, establish a running game. Defense has played well but needs to force more turnovers. Our MVP for the year is Kris Jenkins with maybe Leon Washington second. In summary Favre should not force it. Play smart. We are a talented team.
He makes mistakes but he WINS games… Its all or nothing with Brett and he doesnt give a crap bout his personal stats. It is evident when he plays. He just tries to win games.
Brett Favre ” You live by the gun, you die by the gun”…
He WINS games? This isn’t the 90s. This is 2008. And his recent record against the AFC is 12-12 before this year. Seems like anyone can WIN games when they play the Lions twice a year, the Bears twice a year, and the Vikings post Randy Moss twice a year. We’re not the NFC North, we’re the AFC East. Brady twice a year, Miami twice a year (it’s only the last 2 years when Miami has been bad) and Buffalo twice a year. Oh and the NFC conference for the past 7 years has been far inferior than the AFC. But then again he WINS games! Against crappy teams. Welcome to the AFC, Brett!
Yes Chad is gone, and I was sad to see him go, but realized that he had limitations that would not allow the Jets to be serious contenders.
However, in defense of Chad, I will point out that it is clear that he learned and mastered the Dolphins offense much faster then Brett has learned the Jets offense. This should not be a major surprise as Chad could have been a Rhodes scholar and is familar with the Dolphins offense from past seasons.
My concern is that Brett is not giving the Jets the same amount of effort that Chad is giving the Dolphins. When Brett came to the Jets, he said he didn’t come to make commericals and do endorsements. However, he’s all over NY doing just that. I’m not saying that he isn’t trying hard, but it doesn’t appear that he’s giving the same amount of effort to learning the offense that Chad is. Too a degree the results reflect this.
Off topic (there’s only so much Chad v. Brett you can take) but, Bassett, Bent or anyone–could there be a semi-regular article on how ex-Jets are doing? I know that Vilma is doing well, but what are DRob, Abe, and the rest up to? This also affects the draft next year.
Just asking!
CHAD IS GONE and NEVER COMING BACK!
BRETT IS OUR QB!
MANGINI and SCHOTT BETTER FIGURE OUT QUICKLY HOW TO PROPERLY USE FAVRE OR THEY WILL BE UNEMPLOYED COME JANUARY!
Mark,
I could have sworn he was 1 play away from playing in the Superbowl last year… Or did you forget bout that?
Where was Chad?
Ill tell you… He was probably rehabing on one of his stupid injuries.
Mark, I’ve been trying to be “polite” about your feelings and thoughts, but please let it go. This will start ti turn ugly quickly. You like Chad, we get it. Can we move on to Jets vs Buffalo, with Favre as our QB, please.
Mark , UR NUTS.
Chad was a good QB no doubt. But to tell u the truth he played his best under Paul Hackett. He is a west coast offense QB who needs a consistent running game to be successful. Do u think this chameleon like approach who have worked with him? What would have happen is the offense would have been in the 20-32 range in terms of offensive rankings. The real problem is Brian Schottenhiemer. Mark Cannizaro went on ESPN this afternoon and reported that the whole Jets offense his basically rolling there eyes and shrugging there shoulders at Schottenhiemer’s play call. They said exactly what Ive been saying all along that the erratic play calling does not allow them to get into a rythym making for the shotty offensive play. I really like Mangini but he’s gotta cut this guy loose. He has lost his players. They have no faith in what hes trying to do. I gaurentee if McCarthy, Reid, or Holmgren were calling the plays Favre would be leading the league in touchdown passes. Lil Marty’s gotta go and as my man Najy says “you live by the gun, die by the gun”
Najy,
Since I recently had to move a couple of years ago to Wisconsin, I am familiar with this 2007 Packers team you speak of. The defense was great. Ryan Grant was amazing the last 10 games of the year, and their offense was built around Grant.
Apparently you did not see the NFC championship game. You should talk to a Giants fan. Favre was atrocious. He single handedly won the game for the Giants. Packer fans were irate over Favre. Every week at the sports bar here literally the whole bar (they’re all Packers fans) laughs when ever Favre throws a pick or makes a poor decision, while I am the only Jets fan in the bar.
And this notion that he doesn’t care about the stats and is self-less. It’s the opposite. He is selfish. It’s true he doesn’t care about stats, but he does not put team in front of himself. All the time he makes decisions chucking the ball in triple coverage, etc. How is that not selfish? Consistently putting the defense out there instead of just showing some restraint and taking a sack or throwing the ball away.
And you’re right Chad was hurt and probably rehabbing an injury. But when both are healthy Chad is better. Why do you make excuses for Favre? We have him for one year. Call a spade, a spade. He’s played poorly this year. We were told we were going to get better than this. Kansas City and Oakland are not juggernaut teams. They’re garbage.
Mark,
You were probably the same guy that was cheering when Favre threw that TD pass to Stuckey in Miami. It was a no look pass on 4th down. Favre made a great play getting away from pressure and “chucked the ball”. That play, he got a Td… Sometimes, he wont.
I understand that he needs to be a bit more cautious and careful with the ball… And I agree.
Two weeks ago vs the Raiders, Chad would have been out for the season in teh 1st Quarter. The Raiders were T-ing off on Favre due to Schotty’s stupid 5 WR sets and is inablity to adjust. Favre was getting killed. Chad would have not made it past the first Quarter after a couple of those shots.
Call a spade a spade.
Mark,
P.S.
Wasnt he runner up for MVP behind Tom Brady?
Mark, why don’t you give us a disertation on Chad’s playoff game against the Raiders? He was in his prime then as well. Please, just to be fair and balanced here.
Also Mark, if Chad is better than Favre, why will Favre be in the HOF, and Chad will not even get on a ballot? Don’t want to hear about “injuries cost Chad a HOF career” garbage either. Injuries are part of the game and Favre stays on the field. You are so good at breaking things down yet I have posed 2 very valid questions that you refuse to answer, why?
Mark, I did not bring up wide receivers at all. I simply responded to naked statistics with naked statistics. You brought up wide receivers. To me, that just takes a speculative argument to a more speculative level, drilling deeper down into a morass of opinions that can never be proven right or wrong, such as “If Chad had the same he would achieve the same or better.”
I guess preference in QB style is the same as preference in anything. I tend to go for the “fortune favors the bold,” approach in most things. I liked Joe Namath, in spite of the interception machine he could be at times, because he was willing to tempt fate in pursuit of greatness. Favre certainly isn’t Namath, especially in these twilight years, but he’s the first QB the Jets have had since Joe who shares that sentiment. It’s an attitude I like to see on the team, one I prefer to the “If we’re really careful and we do everything exactly right and don’t make any mistakes, we just might win,” approach. I’d rather see a young player like Ratliff, with similar physical tools, mold his game on Favre ’s than Chad’s.
As a Yankee fan, I loved Don Mattingly. But Reggie Jackson’s 3 homers on 3 pitches in winning the ‘77 World Series eclipse all of Mattingly batting titles, in spite of the fact that Reggie may still lead the league in strikeouts. It’s easy to critique the difference in surrounding talent and speculate on what others might have done, but these players DID do it. Reggie DID win the World Series, Favre DID win the Superbowl. This is incontrovertible fact. Lucky? Maybe. But, once again, perhaps fortune really does favor the bold?
At the end of the day it’s really just preference, though. I’d rather watch a slugger going for the KO than a guy dancing around, hanging on for the close decision. Like I said, to each his own.
Mark,
I went out of my way to put this together for you:
Chad Penn career stats in the playoffs:
Attempts: 178
Comp: 107
Completion %: 60
Td: 7
Ints:5
Sacks:14
Yards: 1166
Yards per Pass: 6.5
This should probably end the discussion, but if you have any thoughts, I would be more than happy to answer?
Pete 57 here are some answers to your questions as requested:
1. If Chad is better than Favre, why will Favre be in the HOF, and Chad will not even get on a ballot? Wow, this is your question. Brett Favre is a Hall of Fame quarterback because he is a 3 time MVP and Super Bowl winner. Pennington has not done any. However this is not 1995. This is not 1996. This is not 1997. And we did not receive Brett Favre from 1995-1997. At this point, Pennington is better than Favre. I never said he was a Hall of Famer. Please cite where I said that. Ok that question was easy to answer.
2. Every Jets fan knows Oak-land has been our “Astrodome” of this decade. Testaverde and Pennington were abused by those Oak-land teams. I was even surprised when we beat Oak-land with John Hall’s field goal in Week 17. Oak-land was the better team. In fact didn’t they go to the Super Bowl the year Oak-land beat the Jets with Pennington as quarterback. I think we had a 3rd and 10 with 1:40 on our 32 and it was incomplete. We had timeouts and punted but never got the ball back. I’ve played that situation a couple of times on Madden.
Najy, I shook my head and smiled when the Hail Mary from the 22 yard line happened. I told my wife right at that moment that only Favre gets away with stuff like that. For every other quarterback it would have been picked off, but for him he amazingly gets lucky like that sometimes. I also told her he was definitely right to chuck the ball in the air since it was 4th down and was the right play by Favre. And you may be very much right about Pennington getting hurt if he had played against Oak-land a couple of weeks ago. Favre got hit bad that game. But at the same time I have not watched every Dolphins game, he may have been hit like that in some Dolphins game. I do not know.
subwayfare I completely agree with everything you said in your most recent comment. Where I differ from others is that everyone cites Favre winning the Super Bowl, but that was more than 10 years ago. We have to evaluate him in the present time.
Najy what were Favre’s playoff stats in the beginning of his playoff career? How about Manning? I hear he can’t win the big one. Was he ever able to pull it off? How about Rich Gannon? He was a journeyman quarterback. He was on the Vikings then bounced around for almost a decade. Was he ever able to be successful with Oakland? What are there stats? Did Tony Dungy dump Peyton Manning when he came from the Bucs? Obviously Manning will never be able to win the big one. He never could beat Florida while at Tennessee.
This is kind of off topic but Mark Cannizaro reported that several key Jets are extremely frustrated and dissapointed in Lil Marty’s erratic play calling. They were seen rolling there eyes at offensive coaches on the sidelines and doing the same thing when asked about the play calling in interviews. I know for a fact two of the players were Baker and Faneca, and they complained that there is no rythym in his scheme. If Lil Marty has another showing like he did this Sunday in Buffalo, look for some consequences to be handed down. Looks like he’s starting to lose his team and maybe Bill Callahan can take the offense in a different direction.
Mark, I don’t disagree that Favre isn’t what he once was and that there’s no guarantee he’ll deliver more wins than Chad might have this year, but there’s a saying in the music business, “Once a hit, always a threat.”
Does he have one more in him? I don’t know. But, for me at least, it’s worth taking the shot.
Mark, weren’t the Giants better than Green Bay last year? This goes to your point that Oakland was better than the Jets, when Chad was absolutely awful. And Chad was in his prime, and, according to you, Favre is a washed up bum and SUCKS. Point being that you seem to make excuses for Chad’s poor play.
So you want to stay in the present? Ok, when the Jets picked up Favre and released Chad, give me one person in the NFL (excluding Coles) who thought it was a bad move?
Alright, I say peace to everyone. It is Diwali. Happy Diwali to the Hindus! If you’re Jewish, happy Hanukkah coming up. If you’re Christian, happy Christmas coming up. If you’re Atheist, happy Thanksgiving! If you’re Muslim, happy Eid or happy Ramadan! I’m not sure what’s the next holiday. If you’re Sikh happy early Vaisakhi!
I understand Favre is our QB and I hope he excels. I am a diehard Jets fan. I gave my view points. I feel I was in the minority in the Chad vs Kellen, Chad vs Brett and I gave a diverse view point. I tried to use facts. I want what’s best for this team. I want the division and hate the Patriots. I hope we win this week.
I did not mean any disrespect to any person who disagreed with me. Just some healthy freedom American exchanges of differing views. Everyone have a great afternoon!
Good to hear Eddie. We have a coach who can take over teh offense right now. I just wonder what Schott has on Mangini to still have his job. There is no rhthym it is erratic. On 2nd and 1 if you line up in the spread I’m fine with it, but frickin 3rd and short. This is the NFL not an experiment and 1st downs are gold.
When they hired Callhan I loved the move because I think he will eventually be the OC. He did a great job with Gannon. Older, less mobile QB, with something left in the tank. Sounds familiar.
JustAGreenGuy,
Perhaps Mangini feels loyalty to Schotty. After all, Schotty was offered a HC job in Miami and he turned it down to stay with the Jets.
Which I respect and I wish he could still have a part on the team he probably is an exceptional QB or WR coarch. He isn’t ready to be an OC. Loyalty is great but Mangini’s ship is sinking with him.
I agree 100%.
I am just reasoning why he still has a job as the OC.
Mark,
A lot of what you’re saying in your pro-Chad argument are things that many of us regulars on this blog have debated and picked over time and again. I pointed out in favor of Chad over KC in the pre-season that, yes, when he was healthy, the Jets made the playoffs. But, haven’t you ever wondered how far a Jets team with an HOF RB (Martin) and an HOF center (Mawae) would have gone with, say, a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady? As much as I liked Chad, you have to admit (which you are stubbornly unwilling to do) that his arm strength limits his playoff effectiveness. That doesn’t mean that Chad can’t lead a team to the Super Bowl, but playoff teams in the NFL are good at forcing offenses to do what they are uncomfortable at doing (a Belichick special). While I defended Chad, even I had to admit that the Jets had maxed out with Chad. Sure, Favre is a stop gap, but a choice between Chad and Favre is a no-brainer for Favre.
On the flip side, Chad was perfect for the Dolphins. He gives the team competence at QB. But, if you’re really saying that Chad is a better QB than Favre, you must be joking. Since Chad has become a starter in 2002 (and taking out this season because lots can change in 9 more games), Favre wins in QB Rating 3-2, with 1 tie. But, in TDs, Favre has thrown 75 more TDs to go with 61 more INTs. Favre also made the Pro Bowl 3 times, to 0 for Chad and Favre’s team made the playoffs 4 times to 3 for Chad. Favre’s team had 1 losing season, Chad’s 3. So, I don’t know what objective measure that you evaluate, but wins, QB rating, TDs, playoff appearances all go to Favre and he hasn’t missed a start. And, there’s the rub, no matter how good Chad is or can be, you have to also discount him for his injuries. I like Chad, but he’s just not as good a QB as Favre.
Najy -
That’s a totally worthless comment since it was Favre who put us in two-minute drill situations against terrible teams. You can’t have someone crap all over the place and then praise them when they clean up some of it.
Joe B.,
I guess you missed my whole point.
The point is with Brett Favre, we have the ability to drive down the field and execute in the 2 minute drill as well as anyone in the league.
As opposed to waiting for Chad to throw the 4th Q pick.
I guess you missed my point.
With Chad, there was much less of a chance that we would need the two-minute drill.
I don’t want Chad back, but Favre’s last three games are just as bad as any Chad had while with the Jets.
Joe B.,
There was much less chance because we were down by so much that we had no chance… hahaha
Last year, I saw Chad throw an int everytime he was in the 2 minute drill.
This year, we played Chad in Miami and I saw him throw the int in the 2 minute drill.
You are trying to make a point but you are WRONG… Regardless of what you say, Chad can not execute the 2 minute drill if his life depended on it.
Mark:
Just got home an read you comments. Congratulations on your recall and intestinal fortitude in giving some very straight forward and unpopular info. I’ve been at this for a while and I can assure you we are few that share your view.
Don’t be surprised if in the future you are accused of you and I and Fonzie of being the same people.
Glad, very glad to have you on board !!!
Mark, I won’t comment on the Favre v Pennington debate as you have all done it to death.
What I will say is that my experience from the people who commented on this blog was unanimous support for Favre in his new home from ex-Packer fans. Also, your view that ALL Jets fans unanimously loved the trade and trashed Pennington is not the case. The trade had many who weren’t sure and some who flat out hated it. Meanwhile, Pennington received many tributes from posters here who said they would be sad to see him go – I can direct you to some if you like.
Living in Wisconsin, maybe you wouldn’t have seen this as I guess the National media coverage centered around the Jets fans that did display excitement over the move.
Time to move on…Chad was an excellent Jet and will I will always see him as a Jet. I bet after he retires, he will feel the same.
We have what we have and now need to go up to Buffalo and win this game. Lose and we are the same old JETS…
The sad part about this is we do not have a QB in the waiting!!! You can bet the house that the FO knows this and are looking as to who we trade our first pick to next year.
Chad is the better Quarterback for the Jets. The personnel that was assembled on this team was assembled for Chad. Brett Favre does not look comfortable behind center and the spotlight is starting to wear on him. It doesn’t help that your coach is a poorman’s Bill Belichick.
Good job Bassett, excellent read.
BigBlue,,this team was built for KC to run with. Only thing was he could not handle it and Chad beat him out . So the move for Brett. If we do not make the play-offs, this will be another FO blunder.
I hope I’m wrong…
Mark,
It seems that most of these Jets fans on this blog I wont name them (ehmm) think that hank/naples and I are the same person. They can’t see it but we are actually family and strong supporters of Chad and I alongside hank support you in all you posts. FARVE SUCKS!!!! FARVE SUCKS!!!!
BRETT FARVE = HUGE LOSER!!!!
LETS GO PENNINGTON KEEP WINNING SO WHEN THE JETS PLAY YOU YOU CAN STICK IT TO THEM BECAUSE THEY TOOK TEAM LOYALTY AND THREW IT OUT THE WINDOW!!!
Najy;
FARVE BLEW IT LAST YEAR IN THE PLAYOFFS WHEN IT MATTERED AT HOME AND THREW THE GAME CHANGING INTERCEPTION. LIKE SOMEONE SAID EARLIER “YOU LIVE BY THE GUN. YOU DIE BY THE GUN!!!!” CHAD PENNINGTON WENT INTO FOXBOROUGH AND BEAT TOM BRADY ONE TO ONE WITH AN INFERIOR TEAM IN 2006. HE HAS LEAD US THREE TIMES TO THE PLAYOFFS AND I AM SURE 2004 WE WOULD HAVE WENT ALL THE WAY IF WE HAD A STRONGER EMOTIONAL COACH.
FARVE VERSUS PENNINGTON
FARVE 1-2. PENNINGTON 2-1.
CAN’T WAIT FOR WEEK 16!!!!
Correction: Week 17!!!
Rich – Good idea. I’ll do it at the halfway point of the season. I’ve seen a few of each of their games and will actually see Abe in person this Sunday.
I have made comments about all three over the last few weeks.
In short, Robertson hasn’t done much statistically and did miss a game, Vilma has been playing a bunch and has tons of tackles (and even had a few impact plays) and Abe made a fast start and was leading the league in sacks, but has slowed down the last few weeks (10 tackles, 1 sack in the last four games).
In terms of the draft, nobody knows what the Robertson conditions are (potential sixth rounder) and I think Vilma was based on 80% playing time (which he should easily surpass), but unless the Saints re-sign him before the draft it will just be a fourth rounder. If they do re-sign him, the Jets will get a third or a second (and if it’s a second they’ll give up their fourth).
Bassett, great job with the press box insight. I’ve always wondered what it is like up there – great description.
Fonzie, why aren’t you a Dolphin fan? I’m serious. You are obviously not a Jet fan. You want the Jets to lose. So go blog at the Phinsider,and you will be surrounded with tons of people who also want the Phins to beat the Jets. I am being 100% serious with you. I don’t understand why you are here.
With regard to the issue of cheering in the press box, this is STRICTLY forbidden in almost any other press box. I have covered college football in the Big 12 and the SIDs make it a point to announce before the game something to the effect of “This is a professional working press box. Any cheering will result in loss of privileges and expulsion.”
The announcer in the box is always good too, and having stats given to you and info for every play is really nice. I miss it when I watch a game in the stadium or on TV.
I’m guessing they took at look at your credentials and said, “He’s a blogger. Let him go. We won’t give him credentials again anyway.” That’s no knock on you, it’s just a reflection of the state of professional Media Relations these days – they genuinely don’t like allowing bloggers into their world.
As for the Jets/Giants press box, I’ve been there before, and it’s definitely one of the nicest of all the stadiums I’ve been to. Big 12 schools with more successful programs (i.e. Oklahoma) have horrible press boxes in that they’re very tight and uncomfortable – you definitely got to experience the luxury of the NFL!
Pete57,
Your football knowledge is minute and it shows as you continue to support me in Chad versus FARVE sweepstakes. Soon Chad will take over stick it to you FARVE lovers and end all of this FARVE hype.
FARVE SUCKS!!!! FARVE SUCKS!!!!! FARVE SUCKS!!!!
BRETT FARVE = HUGE LOSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*yawn*
Fonzie, why didn’t you answer the question? You want the Dolphins to win and the Jets to lose. So that makes you a Dolphin fan. Am I missing something? You seem like a very angry person, or a teen boy whose hormones are raging. If you’re a teen then I guess you’ll probably be ok. But if you’re an adult, I’d suggest speaking with a professional. There is obviously some other issue in your life making you this way. A healthy person doesn’t obsess for months about the cutting of a QB from his favorite team.