An Open Letter to Jets Fans on Eric Mangini
After watching the Jets beat the Pats, I wrote my recap and went to bed. Next morning, I got up at 6 to drive my daughter to Massachusetts to look at a college. I’ve just gotten back to find the blog full of attacks on Mangini. What is this? After a road win against a favored division opponent who, incidentally, went 18-0 last year and went to the Super Bowl and who has beaten us 11 of our last 12 meetings? What’s wrong with you?
You argue that Mangini doesn’t make enough adjustments compared to Belichick. First, there were adjustments all over that game. Belichick talked about it in his post-game. Knowledgeable observers were fascinated by the back and forth, calling it a chess match. Second, Belichick is asking guys who think they are going to win (especially when playing the Jets) to make adjustments they have made dozens of times before. They’ve seen every scheme. His defense had two players who had never played for him before this year, the rest were veterans. His offense, except for Cassell and the running back (I don’t even remember seeing his Jersey, do you?) was intact from the last few years. For most of his players, he can call out a scheme and snap his fingers. They execute it to perfection. For the Jets, there are eight new starters of the first string’s 22 players. This includes his quarterback and nose tackle, who, by the way, has never played a 3-4 until this season. When Mangini changes his scheme, he’s talking to players who aren’t sure if they can win, aren’t all on the same page and who won’t, necessarily, execute it to perfection. They HAVEN’T seen it all before. Is Mangini a bad coach because he’s been on the field less than Belichick and he’s got a lot more new players?
Belichick has honed his system through five years in Cleveland and eight in New England, not to mention a dozen or so as DC and myriad others as a coach. His first coaching job was for Ted Marchibroda in 1975. Mangini, at the time, was starting Kindergarten. If BB’s got a few more wrinkles up his sleeve, maybe it’s because he’s got a few more in his brow, too.
If you’re going to give Belichick credit for catching up, why doesn’t equal credit accrue to Mangini for his team going up by 18 in less than two quarters? If the Jets convert a third and fourteen in the second quarter, NE never comes back. Is Mangini going to be pilloried because the team didn’t convert a crucial, and difficult, third down? They managed to convert nine first downs in the game including the 3rd and fifteen that won the game. They failed in an important spot in the first half. Get over it.
As for the ‘prevent’ in the fourth quarter, I admit that I didn’t like it. I prefer an attacking defense. Still, this is the guy’s 43rd game as a head coach. He was a coordinator for one year. Does he get a chance to try different strategies the way Belichick tried them twenty-five years ago without you calling him a loser when you’ve got the benefit of hindsight and he was trying to win the game?
Despite his choice of defense on the last drive, Mangini’s eight seconds away from his strategy working. If Moss is ruled out of bounds, as he might well have been, it doesn’t get overturned and the game’s over. If it’s a better punt, they never get close enough to score and it’s game over. If Cassel doesn’t shake off the would-be sack, it’s game over. If Moss bobbles it, it’s game over. If it’s not a perfect pass on the run, it’s game over. And, if it’s game over in regulation, is Mangini a bad coach for his strategy or just a victim of the mercurial hand of fortune? Now that I mention it, how about Keller’s drop in the first half? What about Lowery’s drop of the sure INT? Either one means there are no Moss heroics to ruin your evening. Down by eleven or fourteen, the touchdown doesn’t matter.
Listen, Jets fans. Your team is in first place with six to go. You haven’t been in first place for seven years. Mangini takes you to the playoffs in his first year (and beats the Patriots with Tom Brady, btw) despite having some mediocre personnel and a rubber-armed quarterback.
The following year, through no fault of Mangini’s, he has the worst offensive line in the game and a plethora of injuries, particularly to the wide receivers. Without good wide receivers, your quarterback, who has little margin for error starts making INTs by the bucket load. You bring in a talented rookie, but he’s overmatched behind the ghastly Oline. You go 4-12.
The following year you give Mangini a crafty old veteran quarterback and seven new starters. In the first ten games, he takes you to 7-3 and first place and beats Belichick into the bargain. What were you hoping for?
Snap out of it. The old Jets are gone. What you saw in 2006 is still there. Give Mangini a little time, a little room to make some mistakes and relax. The sky is not falling.
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Listen The biggest rival in the division and you get up big and dont try to cripple them i dont understand i mean there is nothing wrong with killing a fly with a sledgehammer serious we drew first blood and still let them in the game mangini is ok but to me he doesnt have the killer instinct and it hurts us
Good point about Mangini being a relative newbie as a coach, but as I posted earlier, think Jets/Mangini would benefit greatly by loosing the predictablity.
As posted earlier I believe Bondy gets it exactly right…
“…Mangini has his big victory anyway…Hopefully, Mangini isn’t as stubborn behind the scenes as he is on a teleconference call with reporters (defending the prevent).
Sometimes we forget Mangini is still a young trainee on the job, and that nobody becomes Belichick overnight – not even his protégés. In the future, he needs to play with what got him to the fourth quarter.
In the NFL, coaches celebrate and sweat at the same time. Mangini squeaked past the Patriots, despite himself. The undefeated Titans are next. If the Jets find themselves leading Tennessee in the fourth quarter, Mangini needs to trust the Force, or the Favre. ”
Only thing I’d add is that we should have also kept our heel on their necks in last two minutes of second quarter as well…I’m all for slow and steady wins the race, but turtles going into their shell become soup!
I could not agree more Bassett, I had a lifelong JET fan text me in the 4th quarter, “Mangini Must Go.” The game wasnt even tied yet. I almost lost it on the JET fan.
Take one more step back also… Does Herm even come close to winning this game as our HC?
All you haters need to give it a rest. And just as i told that anonymous JET fan- “SCOREBOARD”
Thank you Andrew!
I was thinking the same thing yesterday — coming off the most significant victory in the past few seasons, people were whining about the “bad coaching.” Am I wrong, or was there a different coaching staff in place during the first half when the team rolled up 24 points on the Pats, the most any team has ever hung on them in a first half during the Belichick era? Was there a different coaching staff last Sunday when they demolished the Rams? Or beat the Bills?
I encourage the whiners to look around at the rest of the NFL — like it or not, right now, Mangini and his staff are in the upper half of the coaching staffs. The team is always prepared, very rarely gets blown out, is well-disciplined (fewest amount of penalties in the NFL in the past 3 years) and never quits — even last year, while going 4-12, anyone who watched the team had to admit that they never gave up. That’s all a testament to the coaching.
And yes, talent plays into it, but as any Cowboy fan can tell you right now (or any Washington fan the past few years), just because you have a ton of talent doesn’t always mean you automatically get wins.
Now, do I wish the playcalling was better at times? Of course I do — everyone wants to see 47-3 every week. But that’s not realistic. The guys on the other side make adjustments to your adjustments, then you adjust to that, etc. Players are human (last time I checked) — the perfect gameplan can easily be undone by a fumble or a pick-6.
The bottom line is who has the most points at the end of the game, and more times than not this year, it’s been the Jets. Unlike college, here are no additional style points added if you beat a team by a large margin. All that matters is winning, and the Jets have been doing that more than losing this year.
At the the risk of sounding like a kiss a$$, this was a hell of an acrticle.
my bad Andrew should have looked at author first, just assumed it was our Editor in Chief.
Andrew:
Excellent comments and ABOUT TIME someone told it like it is !!!
The problem is that, and I know I’m beating a dead horse but needs to be beaten AGAIN, Farve worshipers believe that it’s not, never, the player(s) fault, its fire the coach, or OC or DC. They are not happy untill they see Farve play QB AND coach the team from the field. Believe, someone suggested that today, I’m not kidding.
Thank You!!!! We beat the f### Pat’s!!!! enjoy it for a week.
Andrew:
PS. Be careful re: Pennington, he may still give us a black eye with his “rubber arm” Dec 28.
lets be honest mangini was vintage joe walton in the second half and everyone old enough to remember will agree with me….
Wholeheartedly agree, its year 3 of his first head coaching experience. What he’s been able to accomplish in those three years is pretty remarkable given the circumstances. We all knew going into this that there were going to be some growing pains. Lets face the facts we were surprised (on the positive side) with his first year. Raise your hand if you expected to beat NE and make the playoffs. Anyone raising their hands?? No, I thought so. Yes last year was a disappointment, but a few breaks go our way and its a much better season. 9 of the 12 losses last year were by 10 points or less. The other three losses were to NE, Giants and Cowboys, so the champs, the SB losers and arguably the best team in he NFC last year. And we were actually in both the NE and Giants game until late game mistakes blew it for us. This while having the worst O-line in the NFL last year, out-of-place D-lineman, and an outside LB who admitted to taking the year off (Im looking at you B Thomas). Ok, this year he’s been given some great tools, but we have to give them time to gel together and become a team. Just bc you added the parts doesnt mean they are going to work right away. We are witnessing something special this year, enjoy the ride and hope for the best. Long-term, he’s the best head coach we have had in a very long time and he’s only going to get better.
Andrew. I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment of your post. The team is 7-3 in first place and just beat the Pats in New England on National TV with all the national media predicting we would lose because of the psychological advantage the Pats “HAD” over us. If you can’t enjoy this win and be excited for the future, I feel bad for you. Is Mangini perfect, probably not. Can this team (with this coaching staff) win the division and make a serious run- the answer right now is a definitive yes. What is there to be so upset about.
As for me, R in Ct and others, I am still reveling in one of the most satisfying victories I have ever witnessed as a fan. Ironically, heading up to Green Bay in a couple of hours to visit some friends and catch the Pack/Bears at Lambeau. Should be a nice relaxing weekend of watching football, knowing that our team already took care of business and sit alone in first place!
If Favre looks to the right side of the field on third down on two straight 3rd quarter possessions, he makes easy first down complwtions and those drives continue. He had a wide open receiver on both plays but never looked that way.
I’m glad I’m not alone. Not many people gave us a chance and we went to their cold and wet field on Troy Brown day and showed them we weren’t chumps. The 18 point lead was an illusion by kick return..They had steadily marched the field earlier. Any smart football fan knew it would be close and it was. This is going to be a great year!
I’m sorry that I just don’t get it. I’m happy with the result but not yet excited about the coaching. Our players won that game, and our coaching came close to losing it. Is that being a whiner? If so, count me one.
We’ve got great talent, and virutally no serious injuries. A great team, once its up, never let’s go. We tend to repeat that mistake (think back to AZ game, or the games against KC, Cinn, & Oak where questionable play calling allowed our much weaker opponents to stay in the game, and in Oakland’s case, beat us).
Don’t read into what I write that I don’t think the Mangini led Jets are doing well, but I’m not even close to being in the “Mangenius camp.” Am I the only one who feels overly conservative play calling with a lead loses every time? Why do we only play great when the game is tied or close?
I’m as fired up as tne next fan about the possibilitiies, but that’s all it is at this point. Sure, we’ll likely make the “playoffs” but being one and done does nothing for me. To get to the “next level” you have execute and adjust constantly, and again, not be predictable.
Good points all. Let’s not forget that the owner is fully supportive of Tangini, is looking for sustainability at the top a la PITT & NE and has bought into the philosophy – unlike the situation when Joe Walton was around. The conservative defensive play calling may be hard to watch, but it gives the team the best chance to win, as Mangini mentioned in the post game – and it took a perfect play to beat it. My main beef is that it should have never come down to the defense – all we needed was one semi-ballsy play call to get a first down and it’s game over.
But back to the defense – the main issue in this game was that no one in the secondary could make a play. No adjustments?! – we tried every combination possible (inc. Ahmad Carroll) to match up & were forced to go Ty Law one v one with Moss at the end. If Law can shake off the rust, we might be ok, but right now this unit is our Achilles heel.
You win.
Some people need to shut up and realize that only so much can be done by coaching and there’s eleven players on the field that actually have to execute in order to get things done.
Thanks for the support and good points.
I was wondering if anyone would care to speculate on what they would be saying in NE if the Pats had won? Clearly, they’d be talking about how the Pats had the heart of a champion and the Jets were dogs. Well, for once, we’re not the dogs. For once, it’s the Pats barking.
The NE media has spent two days pathetically speculating about how a single play missed here or there could have swung the game in their favor. Sound familiar? We’ve been doing that off and on for years now. But, the sum total is, that teams are judged on wins and losses. Not on horseshoes or hand grenades.
We got no credit over the years for coming close and the Pats have been widely regarded as a brilliant team coached by a genius over that time because they won, even ugly. That’s what wins do. Coming close gets you nothing. Herm, the luckiest coach in history, was good at coming close. Remember the Pittsburgh playoff game? Anybody want Herm back?
Belichick is revered (even as he is reviled) in NE simply because he wins. If he gets the kudos in victory, he ought to take the hit in defeat. So on outcomes alone, I assert the following: Mangini won because he’s a genius, Belichick lost because he’s a mutt. That’s good enough for me for now. In the end, it’s the wins that will decide it.
Good Article! But my major knock on the coaching is the defensive schemes- prevent in the 4th quarter, and whatever u want to call the safe based defense that was being played at the end of the 2nd quarter that led them to march down the field in less then 2 minutes to score. I Also think he should of called a timeout during the patriots drive at the end of the 2nd quarter refocus the guys. Liked that he did do this at the end of regulation- but why wasnt Revis on Moss on that last play! Revis our best, moss there best, one of the last plays of the game, Revis should of been on moss.
Also that play when Watson scored, we rushed 3 and they had all the time in the world to convert!
Bellicheat is a mutt, and classless. A prime example of unsportsman like conduct. But, like Darth Vader, he nonetheless is an outstanding HOF coach that has put together an amazing plug and play team. That’s why I love this win…nonetheless, how much better would we have all felt if we’d taken this away with something like 37-17? How many times have better teams put us away like that?
To be completely redundant being close (i.e., playoff contender) ain’t enough!
p.s. thought CSBiscuit gets it…
Well spoken
Its about time someone had too shut all these Mangini haters up. Man I was getting tired of reading all these comments of of how Mangini almost lost the game for us by his conservative playcalling , I’m pretty sure every coach would call the prevent if they were in Mangini’s position, this guy will lead us to the SB one day it might be this year might not but he will
Law or Revis. It wouldn’t have mattered on that last play. Law had great coverage. Cassell put the ball in the only place where he could put it for a completion and Moss made a great catch while keeping his feet in bounds. Any slight deviation and it is incompletion and the game is over.
I love the victory, a win is a win, and the “same old Jets” would not have marched down the field in OT and made that kick. With that, I ask one question. Had the coin simply flipped the other way and Cassel marched his offense down field to a Patriots victory, would your opinion of Mr. Mangini and his skills be exactly the same? I think you’re kidding yourself and everyone else on this blog if you answer “Yes” to that question.
I’m thankful the Jets won, I am gaining more confidence in the team as a whole as the season progresses, but the best of the best don’t only analyze their performances in defeat. Even in victory there are lessons to be learned.
kd bart, thank you for pointing that out. Collinsworth kept harping on how Law played off Moss. By the time the play panned out, Law had as good coverage on Moss as was possible. An outstanding throw coupled by an amazing catch was not defensible.
Is it me, or does Schottenheimer not get enough flak? I think he’s way too cute, going to a spread offense countless times on 3rd and shorts. I can’t really say that any playcalling on the offensive side of the ball can be pinned on Mangini, especially since he is a defensive specialist, a defensive coordinator under a defensive genius in Belichick.
And if there’s one thing about this Jets team, it’s that they have a very solid defense. The run defense has increased tenfold, helped by the seamless transitions by Kris Jenkins, Calvin Pace and others, which was undoubtedly helped by Mangini.
Do I recite the battle cry of “Mangenius” as many of us did in ‘06 anymore? No, but there’s no way that this guy should be fired, or even on the hot seat. The same thing can be said for Mike Tennenbaum. The two have reformed this team from a 4-12 joke to a serious playoff contender, atop the AFC East.
I agree with Andrew big time. As I was listening to the whiners complain on the radio after WINNING this game, I was thinking: we should change the old moniker from “Same old Jets” to “Same old Jets fans”. If you’re a Same Old Jets Fan, you know who you are. You:
* Complained about Thomas Jones having a bad year last year when he rushed for over 1100 yards, all on his own behind a pathetic Oline.
* Complained since Mangini has been here about every bad throw Pennington made, while never crediting him for a good pass
* Loved Mangini every time he gambled (on side kicks, etc), except when they didn’t work, when you hated him
* Crucify Mangini for being a bad coach when his team makes a mistake, but glorify belicheat for being so well prepared, even when his team makes the ultimate bonehead play: a bad snap – which gets kicked by his QB – which puts them in a 2nd and 33. On top of that, BB left 3 points on the field by going for it on 4th and 1 in the 2nd qtr. If Mangini did that at that point in the game, the Same Old Jets Fan would be calling for his job.
* Had to find something to complain about after they won thursday game, even though they won and made many crucial plays when they had to in pressure situations.
Haven’t we all had enough of the Same Old Jets Fan?
I completely agree. Some Jet fans don’t know how to accept success. Get over the negativity and enjoy what’s going on.
Andrew – you’ve put into words what so many of us have been thinking. great post.
All the criticism of the last play of regulation blows my mind. Law had textbook-perfect coverage of Moss. That was an amazing throw and catch and is almost impossible to defend.
Playing off the line had no impact on the play, but was entirely necessary. The play *had* to go to the end zone and Law was in single coverage.The unforgivable sin in that situation would be to bump Moss at the line and let him get behind you in the end zone. And if you watch the play – the ball was not going to Moss. Changing the coverage for that play was actually a great adjustment. Once the play breaks down and QB is scrambling, all bets are off though…
You guys make me sick!!
If the Jets win by 30 points or by 3 points, what does it really matter? We got the win in Foxboro against a division rival that has abused us over the years.
Favre looked great all game, made all the big plays when he had to. Ran around to buy extra time and was able to “sling” the ball around effectively.
Run D looked good but the prevent D was very questionable at best. No game is ever going to be perfect. As long as the Jets get the Win.. Who really cares how or by how many points…
THey are 7-3, have won 4 in a row, and have won 6 out of the last 7 (i believe) and fans are still complaining.
Guess what guys?? Its your fault if you cant enjoy this right now. Jets are 1st place in the AFC East and have all the momentum in the world for a showdown against the Titans next week. If you cant be happy and enjoy this, then you dont deserve to be a football fan.
I’m going to have to be the voice of dissent here. Mangini and Sutton had a horrible second half of that game. Belicheat dominated them with in game and half time adjustments.
For the life of me I don’t get the prevent defense. All it does is prevent us from crushing the other team’s hope. As soon as the Jets defense went into the prevent, Cassel took over the game.
There is no team in the NFL that can cover Moss, Welker, Watson, and Faulk all on the same play for more then a couple of seconds. Take a page from the Giants and keep pressuring the passer!
I’m not calling for Mangini to be fired, I think he’s a very good coach with potential to be a great coach. However, he should realize that the prevent defense has to go.
28.9 points per game. Thats the best since 1968 when the jets averaged 29.9 points per game. Hopefully we follow it with a superbowl like in 1968. Mangini haters be quiet. Just look at how many points we’re scoring per game. Oh and the prevent D would have run the entire clock down if the refs would have done what they were supposed to and run 10 seconds off of the clock when the pats were penalized with 23 seconds left. The moss TD play started with 8 seconds left in the game. The game would have been over before that play ever happened. So mangini haters take a chill pill and enjoy 1st place in our division. 6-1 in our last 7 games. I think if we were undefeated there would still be some ” JETS FANS” compaining about something.
The Jets won in spite of the play calling. Can we possibly run a play action pass on 3rd & 2 and not line up out of the shotgun everytime? I don’t think Mangini should go, that’s a bit far fetched, unless the replacement’s name is Cowher. I’m just saying. I don’t want Mangini to go, but I am not thrilled with the play calling it could’ve cost them the game and yes, throw out the schemes that read prevent (you from winning) defense.
Andrew…nice article and you are right that this is a time to celebrate and enjoy. Let me play devil’s advocate for a while. Mangini and the staff are doing a nice job, but they do have a long way to go. I am happy as hell the Jets are 7-3. However, the questions that people raise are all fair and valid points. If the if/then scenarios you raise are valid, then so are eveyone’s angst about the calls. They are what they are. If you want to play the if/then scenario, you need to look at every game we won.. what if we didn’t score at the end of the KC game, what if Carson Palmer played in the Cindy game, what if Stuckey drops the ball in Miami. The points that people raise about the coaching decisions are genuine concerns that are applicable to the near future and hopefully the playoffs.
They need to get better at making adjustments on D and play calling. Yes, we all know they made adjustments, but they need to yield better results. When/if we win a Super Bowl and people are still pissing and moaning, then you can tell them all to shut the hell up. But for now, they have every right to have angst. It is a big win, but it didn’t come against the healthiest and best of Patriot teams. If we beat Tennessee soundly, it should provide more relief of people’s angst and maybe, just maybe, we can look back at Thursday night’s game and the 3 and 15 to Keller for 16 in OT, as the most important play of the year.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and a blog is the best place to do it. That’s what makes this site so great. Respectfully….
DRAMA QUEENS!
MOVE TO MASS WITH YOUR DAUGHTER AND TAKE MANGINI WITH YOU!
lets be honest mangini was vintage joe walton in the second half and everyone old enough to remember will agree with me….
MINUS THE NOSE PICKING
Anyone can complain about the prevent defense and the conservative offense in the second half, but all those easy 12 yard gains in front of a deep zone could have been 25 yard gains with a standard alignment. All those 5 minute scoring drives could have been 2/3 minute scoring drives.
If the offense was less conservative, maybe Favre could have thrown a pick six, which would have got them back into the game a lot sooner. If they threw an incompletion on third down with 2 minutes to go, the Pats would have had 48 seconds, not 8 seconds to get into the endzone and might not have had to rely on a perfect throw and catch after a missed tackle.
All the Jets needed was one more mistake – or one less great play – out of Cassel and they win in regulation. They nearly got the mistake, only for Lowery to drop it. The strategy put the game on Cassel and he surprisingly delivered, but I never expected a blowout even with the big lead.
It was pretty awesome that once the Pats tied the score (twice) they were able to go down and win it.
I didn’t have a major problem with the game plan. I acknowledge Mangini has his certain weaknesses at times, but I don’t expect perfection from a third year coach. Let’s hope he does continue to get better.
Good article and I am surprised that you didn’t get ripped by the Mangini-detractors. Maybe we have both over-estimated how many of those there are. Once again, the dissenting voice is always the loudest.
Please read entire post:
The third quarter offensive play-calling was horrible. Me pointing this out doesn’t equate to me not being happy with the position the Jets are in.
There’s middle ground between being completely oblivious to wrong decisions and being a cranky, never satisfied Debbie Downer.
I’m ECSTATIC with the Jets’ win. In fact, I’ve had a lousy few days since Thursday night, and was just thanking my stars that the Jets won that game, because otherwise I’d probably be on a roof somewhere (kidding).
Anybody whose FIRST reaction to this game is to complain, is a jerkoff, and has no perspective whatsoever. I agree with that. However, the coaching staff should also not be exempt from criticism just because the Jets won. There’s room to improve everywhere, and if we want to be a Super Bowl contender, we’ve got to get better. Period.
Can’t wait for next Sunday. We’re definitely good enough to go toe-to-toe with Tennessee, I don’t care what anyone says. GO JETS!
to be honest i normally bash shottenheimer and mangini but i didnt mind the prevent defense…the bottom line is that it put us in a position where it was 4th down at the 20 yard line with 8 seconds left and all we needed was one stop…a position where bowens nearly had a sack and we forced an inexperienced qb to roll out and make a throw that had to be perfect, bc law really was all over moss…. ill take my chances with that anyday. Unfortunatley the pass was perfect and bowens missed the sack but thats not manginis fault. anyway we got the win and you have to feel confident with favre driving down field when it matters…we can take tennessee and lets just hope that we dont blow any of the games that were supposed to win
Andrew.. you should know by now that the Jets need to go undefeated and win every game by 100 points in order for every Jets fan to be happy. I’m glad to see that the majority of the responses on this thread are in agreement with you.
The Jets having the extra time before Tennessee will be huge. I have a really good feeling about that game regardless if Tennessee wins this week or not. Mangini uses the extra time for extra preperation. The players will get some extra rest, and Tennessee is playing a physical Jacksonville team.
If the Jets do beat Tennessee, I can’t wait for the first Jets chant vs Denver.
Because the clock was already stopped with 23 seconds left when the Pats committed their false start penalty, they do not runoff 10 seconds. If the clock had been running, they would’ve runoff 10 seconds.
Thanks Andrew. great post. i go to games where the Jets win and I hear bitching. I go to the site after a great win and I read bitching.
Enjoy being a fan once in a while Bitches.
Bassett,
A wonderful and overdue dedication of space. I understand the delay, MOST of the criticism was not worthy of response. Sadly, your letter was necessary.
I am freakishly happy we beat the patriots but i happen to disagree with some of your thoughts. Mangini called a decent game in the first half with a ton of executuon but he has gt to realize that 3 GUYS WILL NEVER GET TO THE QUARTERBACK. BRINGING 4 GUYS IS NOT A BLITZ. when you bring four guys it’s almost the same to haivong a 4 man front. not getting enough pressure on the qb let new england walk up and down the field all day. it was pitiful and if you disagree then you weren’t watching the game.
Nice piece. I’m a fan of the CS and FO for the most part and agree that they are very smart guys still gaining experience.
I actually didn’t even mind the prevent in the 4th quarter. Oddly enough, the Jets have gotten some decent pressure and even a sack or two rushing three and have been blistered on quite a few blitzes this season. My issue is more with the 3rd quarter. I think when you fight the champ you have to go for the knockout and not hope to escape with a decision. Maybe just a matter of personal taste, opinion whatever. I think BB would have gone for the jugular there and I’d like to see Mangini do the same.
All things considered, AWESOME WIN! I tip my hat to everyone in the organization for the victory.
Good article!! Don’t understand the unhappiness or bashing on this blog……The Jet’s win and in first place and still unhappy…WOW!!!!
Fans just love to bitch and complain. Almost all fan boards will have more activity after a loss than after a win.
Go over to Metsblog. MY GOD!!! There are commenters over there who aren’t happy unless the Mets win 12-0 on a two hitter.
I didnt agree with the prevent but at the same time the players didnt exactly execute it the way the Mangini talked about how it was supposed to work in the post game presser. Ty Law had great coverage and Moss and Casell just made an absolutely great play. That ball was put in the only spot it could’ve been and the catch was unreal. That is a one in 100,000 play. Bitter rivalries will bring that out in guys
Mangini is the BEST young coach in the NFL. There is a reason why he was so pursued after his first year as a coordinator. He also has a guy that he wanted to get rid off calling the defense. He’s doing a damn good job of making the best of it.
There are little things that drive fans crazy about every coach. Tom Coughlin was almost run out of town, and proceeded to win the Super Bowl. One thing I have noticed about Mangini is everytime people nitpick things about him, when the situation comes up again he always improves on how he manages it. There’s something to be said for that.
To say he should be fired after Thurs game is irrational and irresponsible. After the Favre trade and the FA pickups, Mangini was at a crossroads in his career as an NFL head coach. There have been some bumps and bruises, but after the smoked cleared his team is in first place.
The Haters need to relax, sometimes it’s OK to be bailed out by your HOF QB. You think Brett didnt do it for Holmgren a few times? Brady and the referees have gotten Belichik off the hook quite a few times. The guy has held this team together in a high pressure season and guided them to 1st place. Great coaches have been bailed out by great players and great coaches have been screwed by lousy ones.
Im sure there are some who will disagree, but by the way this year is unfolding, the next time a situation like that comes up, I have a feeling Mangenius will be ready for it….
gotta rush 4 on the last series…..nobody is asking for a blitz!! but please rush 4 next time u go prevent.
I will be in tennessee next sunday when we hopefully knockoff the still undefeated titans!!!!!
heard its a tough place to play…..will let you know.
Andrew – great piece. I am still on cloud 9. Yes, we all would have liked to not have to sweat it out. I am going to play devil’s advocate to some of the criticism’s of the Coaching Thursday
“up 24-6, stopped NE on 4th down.” Was anybody else thinking what I was, which was “let’s make sure we get into locker room @ 24-6?” I was elated when those bozos passed up chance to make it a 2 score game. D had bent a little, but had not allowed a TD – so why we would not play same D we had been in? Which was play the passing lanes because WE ALL KNEW THIS WAS NOT A GAME TO BLITZ BECAUSE ALL CASSELL DOES IS THROW LESS THAN 10 yards.” Now I may have mixed in more pressure, but you cannot blame the scheme 100%, shouldn’t the execution take some blame – like Lowery not turning around – WE WOULD BE KILLING HIM if that TD extended a NE lead.
3rd quarter play calling – is it possible that along with some conservative calls that plays were not excuted properly AND that we need to, albeit grudgingly, give the NE D some credit for playing well?
All the people who kill Schotty every week – WHERE IS THE PRAISE WHEN TJ RUNS FOR 100 YARDS AND FAVRE COMPLETES 79% of his passes. On what should have been the game winning drive, how about getting a Vrabel on Keller match-up and then a play that NE fooled so bad they had to tackle TJ to prevent a TD – does the coaching staff not get credit for that?
And now we come to the last drive: What would be saying if we jailhouse blitzed and Moss caught a bomb, or Welker was open in flat, broke a tackle and there was nobody behind him? It is unfortunate that not being aggressive is the right D to be in because when you think of our D, we have had success by being agggressive. But bringing 5 leaves one less guy to cover or not be there on a Cassell scrmable. Plus, NE did the best job I have ever seen of getting their OL set as fast as humanly possible to spike ball. It took a PERFECT PASS with a QB WHO WAS UNDER PRESSURE FROM THE MALIGNED 3 MAN RUSH and it took a grea catch for the tying TD.
Some otther stuff that has really not been mentioned: How about everyone saying this might be Belicheat’s best job ever. Are you kidding me? 2 decisions he made have arguably cost him 2 games: not kicking FG to make score 24-9 and not going for 4rh & less than 1 in Indy when they had been averaging 6 yards a run.
AND. Why did he not go for 2? He had to figure OT was 50/50 favre was picking them apart almost all night, so if we won toss he had to think there was a good chance we score. So he was basically saying I think we have less than 50% chance to get 2 yards against a bone tired deer in the headlights defense. Not saying going for 2 is right move, but there would be much logic to support it.
Also – because of the blown lead, THERE HAS BEEN LITTLE OR NO TALK ABOUT SPECIAL TEAMS. The 1st game was lost for 4 reasons: Favre pick, terrible PI call on Cotch, questionable/play calling execution on the 3 infamous runs, and AWFUL SPECIAL TEAMS PLAY.
ST set tone on 1st drive by getting past 35, same on 2nd drive, and then the TD. Coverage was pretty solid and punting was good until the last one.
as an aside – doesn’t it seem like we get ball to start every game? When we toss, shouldn’t we defer? I always think if you have a strong D you want ball to start 2nd half. That way you guarantee if your opponent has the momentum at end of 1st half, you prevent them from continuing it?
And props to Eric Barton for 17 tackles. He has been so solid this season.
I think calling Mangini, who has won “nothing”, the best young coach in the League is a huge overstatement. Let’s see what he can do to hold onto 1st place in AFC East. And please no more prevent Defenses!!!!!!
Name a better coach under the age of 40, cause Kiffin’s already gone and Mike Tomlin has one ten and six season and a playoff loss with a team that won the Superbowl a year before that. You do that, and I call in an overstatement…
That kind of “the best…” is all sports radio/media garbage – just like the NFL Team rankings each week. I could care less is Mangini is “the best young coach.” define “young”
I dont know who your comment was directed at or how it’s relevant, but under the age of 40 with less than 3 years of head coaching expierience
we won the game! what more do you want??? is the franchise in any position to squabble about the margin of victory against the patriots??? enjoy it! lets go jets!
Bret Favre is a “gunslinger”, however as we noticed during the season it was sometimes more like russian roulette. Coaching is doing all the wrong things because when they run and play conservative we dont score. When we let Favre loose we get articles written on the blog like the one which said we would win because Favre was on the sidelines while the game was on the line.
Thats the sad part, people call for Mangini’s head for doing what they want him to do. He ran the damn ball vs the pats and got criticized, he threw against the raiders and got criticized and now when he has more of a balance, media is saying Mangini needs to “trust” Favre to do his job. Well 3rd and 3 I want to kill the clock not add to the league leading INTs thank you.
My biggest beef with the coaching is the play calling. Sometimes i want to pull my hair out when we line up in shotgun everytime, I would like to see some I-formation runs instead of shotgun but hey we are 7-3 cant complain. We should have beat the damn Raiders but if i had to pick between winning one of the two OT games we’ve had…I wouldnt have it any other way.
The one thing i disagree about is the bash at chad pennington. He really brought alot to our team, and it wasnt his arm that kept us from being elite. Look at how much better this defense is and offensive line. Give that to chad and he would be doing just as good(less points but also less turnovers).
Favre is a true leader. He has an unlearnable quality of making everyone around him better. That is what is missing from my (4-5) Packers this year. We have a decent quaterback but we’re missing Favre’s leadership. It’s the little things. I’m rooting for the Jets to win it all.
nicely done andrew…..the “mangenius” is back…..?
I am truly glad too see so many positive jets fans out there! It’s been a long time coming! That said, I will be the 1st too admit I was’nt happy with Mangini early on in the season! In fact, I found myself Calling Brendon Tierney’s radio show too express my disgust, by calling Mangini, “The Mangidiot”! I just did’nt agree with alot of the playcalling! I mean 3 straight runs against the pats in week 2, or the boneheaded onside kick against San Diego, so early in the game?! But we’ve really have something special here, and I plead for everyone that calls themselves a jets fan, too join me, in putting away those, negative, pesimistic, vibes, and actually cheer this team on “TOO VICTORY”!!! I know it’s rarity that we have something positive too look forward to, but the jets could, “respectivly”, go 12-4, or 11-5, and the season will have passed you all bye, without you being able too enjoy it! So sit back, “relax”, and soak it all up! J-E-T-S, JETS, JETS, JETS…….BEE-ATCHES!!!
I don’t consider SIX, yes 6 wins against winning teams the reason to call Mangini the best young coach. Win the AFC East and get us deep into the playoffs and we’ll relook at this.
12:25am on left coast and it is going to be a joy to be taking my daughter to see Madagascar 2 tomorrow.
WE CONTROL OUR OWN DESTINY TO AT LEAST GET A HOME GAME IN WEEK 1 OF PLAYOFFS.
I just chuckled at the thought of what the posts on this BLOG would have been had we lost……disband the franchise may have been the theme.
Im sorry guys… i dont know what game some of you were watching but this coaching staff is crippling this team. I blame everyone on that staff except for Westhoff. I mean, Shottys play calling in the second half is dispicable. We barely ran the ball the entire second half… WHAT IS THAT? When you have the lead like we did, you run the ball, you pound it with TJ, you dont stop the clock every 2 seconds trying to throw the ball when clearly their pass rush geared up in the second half. And what was with the prevent defense??? Jesus, we made Cassel look like freaken Brady out there with all that time in the pocket. WE NEED TO STAY AGGRESSIVE AND BLITZ!!! Mangini and his crew need to go if we are ever going to win big. For god sake, please get Bill Cowher!! Lets not even go to how they handled the first pick of this years draft . Where is Vernon? Major bust that no one talks about because Keller is such a stud. The reason we are 7-3 is purely becasue the players have taken it upon themselves to win. Brett and Leon took that game from the Pats… they took it for themselves and their teamates, not their coaches. That game should of counted as two victories… we beat the Pats and our own coaching staff in the same game. I LOVE THIS TEAM BUT PLEASE LET THEM PLAY!! We have so many weapons… Brett the Jet, Leon the Professional, Jericho Catchery, Pro Bowl Jenkins, and Killer Keller… just let them do their things and we will win. We cant keep fighting our own coaching staff to get wins… In the playoffs, that wont cut it.
Marc – if Keller did not drop a TD pass on 2nd down on 2nd drive all the negativity might be moot – was that the coach’s fault? WE WON. What if we were down 24-6 and came back & won? would there be this over-reacting?
Bill Cowher? You want to hire a guy that NE has OWNED and we play in their division. I love Cowher – but how many AFC title games did he lose @ home? 1994 1997 2001 2004. were it not for the ring in ‘05, he might be in Schott Seniors class.
So when plays are made it is all because of players, and when they are not, it is all because of coaching?
Toon wins the thread. Glad you stuck around, man.
I disagree with the comments about blitzing. I saw several attempts to blitz from the secondary in the second half and New England simply did an excellent job of picking them up, on each occasion finding a wide open receiver, not surprisingly.
It’s still to early to call Gholston a bust.
Bent – that means a lot, because I respect the hell out of you. Let’s get real, NE had to run a PERFECT drive and our three man rush almost got a sack & we forced a QB to make a throw he has not proven he can make. Great catch by Moss – I am still not sure he was inbounds.
For that past 4+ hours, I have been on here, dealing with a sick 3 year-old, and tooling around pro football reference.com YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE HOW MANY 14+ 2ND HALF LEADS WE HAVE BLOWN SINCE 1980
If this BLOG exitsed in 1998 – do you think we would all be on here killing Parcells for the Denver AFC championship loss in 1998? A PARCELLS COACHED TEAM SAW THEIR FEATURE BACK GET 13 CARRIES FOR 14 YARDS. I am willing to bet 80% of you would not have placed any blame on Parcells. A team that averaged well over 20 points a game produced THREE offensive points. I remember a certain playoff game we lost in 2004 where the same thing happened and the HC & OC WERE CRUCIFIED – much of justified. Yet Tuna got a pass for same thing.
Nobody, including me, has given Schott any props for B. Smith option play that worked like a charrm. Guarntee you if that play gets stuffed and we end up kicking 30+ yard FG Schott would be getting ripped.
Also – how about props to the D for holding NE to FG after Cotch fumble AND forcing a punt on possession right after we made it 31-24.
Now also dealing with a frustrated Charger fan wife who says “if we lose to Pitt I am pissed off that we showed up twice this year and once was against your team. If I knew we would suck this bad, I would have rooted for you that night.”
Guys, I am a Jets fan living in Miami and you know what you are all starting to sound like.. DOLPHINS FANS!!!!
Never happy with a big win, always focusing on the negative. It’s frustrating to read.
Let’s enjoy one of the biggest wins in team history and let’s enjoy being in first place and controlling our destiny.
TOON…solid….as are 99% of your posts.
and i too am sick of people calling gholston a bust.
but the coaching is still not great, but its obviously good enough for us to be 7 and freaking 3!!!
enjoy a sunday watching other teams play…
1. Mangini is not a genius, just lucky the owner sprang finally for more Talent.
2. Yes, Gholston is a major bust.
3. Favre has turned this team around, and his threat of the long ball has helped TJ do his thing and Leon is explosive in the open field.
4. Nugent should go , he misses XPs.
5. Prevnt D prevents you from winning.
6. The season is not 10 games its 16, so lets take 1 game at a time before playoff talk starts. For every Big Win we have a Oakland or SD loss. That division is a joke.
7. GO JETS!!!!!
Sorry to burst your bubble, but mangini is a terrible coach
If the Prevent D prevents you from winning…why do so many teams deploy it in the same situation?
Oh yeah, because it is the best strategy. Cover the side lines and keep everything in front of you.
I am so sick of hearing people say the old line.
The worst coach in the NFL is still better then any of us.
only a fool would call a player a bust 10 games into his career….when he is learning a new position.
how many LB’s have their been who didnt go crazy in their first season?? jesus….enough already trashing a guy who still has big time athletic ability… who in the pre season a redskins? OL said was a freak of nature in terms of his strength and athleticism.
wanna pick on someone?? try schottenheimer!!!
Thank you Klecko71
Ryan – Nothing wrong being critical of Mangini, but “Mangini is a terrible coach?” You do not really think that
Every offensive play and defensive scheme is NOT going to work on every play. I am all for assigning blame to coaches when it is warranted, but we also need to praise them when it is warranted. Schott called a game that had Favre go 26-33
I do not know when all sports fans started to assign all blame to coaches and all credit to players. Is it because by admitting that players are the cause of negative results we are basically admitting the team will suck because we are stuck with players under ccontract so we kid ourselves into thinking “if someone else coached them they would be better?”
In San Diego NOBODY is blaming the Offensive Line for the team’s 4-5 record and in my opinion they are the main culprit for the team’s poor start – they are not opening holes. Is that Ted Cottrell’s fault also?
I really do not know how Gholston will turn out – right now he is not as good as CP or BT. I actually commend the coaching staff for not using a “we have to play this guy because we took him with 6th pick” logic because ot would be detrimental to the team.
James you’re a ridiculous Jets fan:
1- Mangini is a good coach .one who went 10-6 without the talent he has now. Plus what coach win without talent again?
2 – Still amazed that fans call VG a bust in 10 games. You will be the first guy cheering for him next year.
3 – Excluding the Pats game favre has been okaynot great. He has not changed anything until Thursday night. He also has protected the ball alot better. Alot to do with the gameplan.
4 – Feely is a better kicker now. Last year Nugent had a really good year. Kicker are kickers. They all make me nervous.
5 -100% of the league plays prevent. Even Belicheck When we drove down the field 2 x to win Thursday. If you kill mangini you’re killing ever other genius coach also.
6 – Were 7-3 be happy
7 – You’re an idiot.
Let’s face it, we beat the pats, yes. But they were down a superstar quarterback, their run game, and a number of other key players. Meanwhile, we spent 22 million on improving our roster, and Mangini is not in his 3rd year in the NFL. And three years does not mean rookie. The fact is that after all the money we spent, and all the critical injuries the Pats have experienced, we still only won by a coin toss. let’s not get too excited yet.
Who cares how much $ we spent? NFL has a salary cap. Cassell was 1st QB in NFL history to throw for 400 & run for 60 in a game – how much did they miss Brady? Rodney Harrison is over the hill & sucks anyway. They were missing Addialus Thomas, we were missing David Harris. I went to tha=e game in Foxboro week 3 2003 and I can tell you that NE fans were not saying “well, we only won because Pennington was hurt and Vinny threw a Pick Six”
When the Jets win the Super Bowl, I will not care what the players or the coaches did. Before that happens, I will celebrate the great plays and criticize the bad ones.
I am really happy about many things that the Jets have going. They are coming together as a team. Except for Gholston, who remains a work in progress — I think Tangini did a great job with the new pick-ups. They have stepped in, exactly as planned. Favre is a pleasure to watch. Kris Jenkins is a monster. I love being in first place.
BUT, the Offensive and Defensive Coordinators have been poor. Play-calling is hurting us on both sides of the ball. We could be so much better if Shott and Sutton had a clue.
That being said — We beat NE, we are in first, and we are going to beat Tennessee in a hard fought win, next Sunday.
You see, you can be critical and love the Jets at the same time!
Ed(itor)
You still didnt answer the question bro, but its a subjective arguement so I guess we’ll see WHEN we win the AFC East…
It all depends how you look at it.
From a negative standpoint, yes, Mangini pulled back the reins too early on Thursday night, the Jet staff was “out-adjusted” by the Pats after halftime, and the defense was a tad soft on the regulation-ending job. But what about giving the Jets coaches some props for all their positive work? They clearly won the game-planning battle against “Genius” Belichick,” generally kept Moss and Welker under wraps, shut down the running game, and “re-adjusted” to move the ball more or less at will on their last two drives. Fine, Cassel had a big night throwing to Gaffney and the TEs. But you can’t cover everyone – it just doesn’t work that way – and it seems that the staff deserves credit for having forced the Pats to compete by using their lesser weapons.
Along the same lines, the Patriots were decimated by injuries, and were set up for a fall. Then again, they’re a proud, well-coached, desperate team, and it’s always tough to knock out the champ, especially on their own turf.
Bottom line, there were negatives about the game, no doubt about it. But only a “Same Ol’ Jets Fan” could focus on those negatives while disregarding the numerous positive results of the game – most importantly that the Jets beat their bitter rivals on the road and are in first place in the division with six games left.
ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS THAT I’VE NEVER HAD SO MUCH CONFIDENSE ON MY TEAM THE JETS. WE ARE PLAYING AGAINST AN UNDEFEATED TEAM IN THE TITANS. WE HAVE A GUNSLIGER IN BRETT. WE HAVE A GOOD RUNNING GAME. WE HAVE PLAYMAKERS AND BRETT HELPS THEM CREATE PLAYS. OUR SPECIAL TEAM IS SPECIAL IN LEON. OUR DEFENSE IS ABOVE AVERAGE. BUT CAN CONTROL THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE FOR THREE QUARTERS AND HOPEFULLY WE HAVE THE LEAD FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE GAME. AS OUR CONFIDENSE GROWS WE WILL PLAY BETTER IN THE 4TH QUARTER OFFENSIVELY.
I don’t mind Mangini one bit. Harvlis is dead on about the OC and DC. The prevent is supposed to stop hail marys, not stop drives. The question was asked about the last NE drive “What would have happened if Moss caught a bomb or Welker broke a tackle…” The same thing that happened when we didn’t try to win the game!
Drew, you are a moron. If you like the Patriots so much why not just become a fan of them?
Alright guys, try and completely disagree with each other without the name calling, if you would be so kind.
I am so enjoying this week I’m still reading anything I can get my hands on. Love the concept of the us as the dragon slayer heading to Tennessee.
No. Mangini made mistakes at the end. Call a play that gives you a chance to get a first down, even if there is some risk of interception or leaving too much time on the clock. Do not give the ball back to your opponent for one last ditch-effort drive in the first place. The reason I say this is not to pillory Mangini, but to raise the reasonable point that the next time an inability to get a first down may cost the Jets the game, and it may be a playoff game. The hope is that Mangini paid very close attention to that series late in the game when he went over the game tape.