Comments on: Analysis: Was Mangini Outcoached? http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/11/17/analysis-was-mangini-outcoached/ Ranting and Raving about the Gang Green Sun, 12 Feb 2012 08:20:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: XYFloyd http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/11/17/analysis-was-mangini-outcoached/#comment-110310 XYFloyd Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:49:48 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=7565#comment-110310 hey man i love your site.. your friend michael told me you were looking for a new way to earn some extra income online. i own an awesome website where you can make money online..most our users are making like 20-50 bucks a day.. with minimal work.. its pretty simple to do.. its actually so easy to do you won't believe ill actually pay you to do it.. and its 100% free to sign up and try. another positive about my site unlike all the other sites.. i will pay you out daily.. so you earn 5 bucks in the first 5 minutes you work on my site.. request a payout and i will pay you out right then.. i guarantee no other sites like mine will pay out daily multiple times.. i'd be glad to help you.. if you sign up.. http://tinyurl.com/5w4qx8 hey man i love your site.. your friend michael told me you were looking for a new way to earn some extra income online.

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]]> By: Robert Mueller http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/11/17/analysis-was-mangini-outcoached/#comment-110105 Robert Mueller Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:17:09 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=7565#comment-110105 Try this. When your team scores a touchdown on a kickoff return, the defense has to go back out again. In other words, the opponent, though down by seven, gets some advantage back in getting more plays to run on offense. So it is natural that the Patriots' offensive effort will improve, or can improve under the circumstances, while the Jets remain very, very pleased to have gotten the special teams score. The 24-6 lead was not illusory, but the circumstances opened the way a little for balance to be restored in the combined scoring. Try this. When your team scores a touchdown on a kickoff return, the defense has to go back out again. In other words, the opponent, though down by seven, gets some advantage back in getting more plays to run on offense. So it is natural that the Patriots’ offensive effort will improve, or can improve under the circumstances, while the Jets remain very, very pleased to have gotten the special teams score. The 24-6 lead was not illusory, but the circumstances opened the way a little for balance to be restored in the combined scoring.

]]> By: subwayfare http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/11/17/analysis-was-mangini-outcoached/#comment-109986 subwayfare Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:09:36 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=7565#comment-109986 I'd be careful about driving KJ into ground the because of how important he is to the D. However, I agree with SD99's take on that particular series and maybe against the Pats in general. There is probably no team in the league better prepared to play against a 3-4 D than the Pats but they did show vulnerability against a powerful 4-man front like the Giants'. Jenkins was dominating Mankins when they lined up that way and a tradeoff between real pressure on Cassell versus the 8th best pass defender on the team dropping into coverage seems like a good exchange to me. I’d be careful about driving KJ into ground the because of how important he is to the D. However, I agree with SD99′s take on that particular series and maybe against the Pats in general. There is probably no team in the league better prepared to play against a 3-4 D than the Pats but they did show vulnerability against a powerful 4-man front like the Giants’. Jenkins was dominating Mankins when they lined up that way and a tradeoff between real pressure on Cassell versus the 8th best pass defender on the team dropping into coverage seems like a good exchange to me.

]]> By: Eddie DiGio http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/11/17/analysis-was-mangini-outcoached/#comment-109984 Eddie DiGio Tue, 18 Nov 2008 13:53:36 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=7565#comment-109984 Yea Im not blaming just Sione, it's combination of the big drop off we have whether it be Mosley, Pouha, Devito etc...I guess what I was saying is in a game like that they have to just ride Big Kris out until the wheels fall off...The guys we have behind KJ are solid, tough guys but they aren't kris, if there is anything he can do its rush the passer from the 3 techique. WIth under two minutes throw the guy out there and see if he can make a play. Yea Im not blaming just Sione, it’s combination of the big drop off we have whether it be Mosley, Pouha, Devito etc…I guess what I was saying is in a game like that they have to just ride Big Kris out until the wheels fall off…The guys we have behind KJ are solid, tough guys but they aren’t kris, if there is anything he can do its rush the passer from the 3 techique. WIth under two minutes throw the guy out there and see if he can make a play.

]]> By: Bent http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/11/17/analysis-was-mangini-outcoached/#comment-109980 Bent Tue, 18 Nov 2008 12:39:51 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=7565#comment-109980 DiGio: I don't disagree that Pouha has been a serious drop-off from Jenkyard, but he wasn't in the game during any of the comeback because he only backs up KJ in the base 3-4, so it's inaccurate to suggest that when KJ was out of the game, he was in there (although, having just re-read your comment, perhaps that wasn't what you were saying). He doesn't play nose in the prevent, not as far as I can recall anyway. Actually the deadman had a decent game by his standards, with half a sack and two devoured Sam Morrises. DiGio:

I don’t disagree that Pouha has been a serious drop-off from Jenkyard, but he wasn’t in the game during any of the comeback because he only backs up KJ in the base 3-4, so it’s inaccurate to suggest that when KJ was out of the game, he was in there (although, having just re-read your comment, perhaps that wasn’t what you were saying). He doesn’t play nose in the prevent, not as far as I can recall anyway.

Actually the deadman had a decent game by his standards, with half a sack and two devoured Sam Morrises.

]]> By: Jose the Jet http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/11/17/analysis-was-mangini-outcoached/#comment-109966 Jose the Jet Tue, 18 Nov 2008 06:06:00 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=7565#comment-109966 IF IT WASNT FOR 15 SECONDS AT THE END OF THE 1ST AND 2ND HALFS THE FINAL SCORE COULD'VE BEEN 31-17. MAYBE HE WAS OUTCOACHED FOR TWO PLAYS? IF IT WASNT FOR 15 SECONDS AT THE END OF THE 1ST AND 2ND HALFS THE FINAL SCORE COULD’VE BEEN 31-17. MAYBE HE WAS OUTCOACHED FOR TWO PLAYS?

]]> By: Eddie DiGio http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/11/17/analysis-was-mangini-outcoached/#comment-109960 Eddie DiGio Tue, 18 Nov 2008 04:49:47 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=7565#comment-109960 Harlan You got it right on the money with the concept of the 3-4 D and the whole Jenkins on the bench deal. It makes me enraged when I watched teams go down the field while Big Kris is sitting on the bence and Pouha is on his back every play. The only time the prevent should be used is with under one minute remaining on your side of the 50 to keep things in front of you. Once the other team crosses the 50 you use the back of the end zone as the extra defender and rush 4. I you watched the Jets did the opposite. I would say the Mangini got outfoxed more by Josh McDaniels. We put up 34 points on Belichiks man boobs defense and scored whenever we needed too. We did win the game but I can understand why people would be concerned with some of the stuff that went on. We really dont match up well against the Pats personell on offense too good either. I think the coachgin staff gets a C-. One thing I disagree with is the Mangini wont make adjustments based on what happened. I've seen him make adjustments this whole year and its a good reason why we are 7-3. I've been killing Sutton and Schott this year and Mangini a little smack on the wrist from time to time, but Mangini is here to stay. I think that WHEN he lets Sutton go this offseason, you'll see a big difference in the defensive play calling when he gets a hand picked guy he trusts in there Harlan
You got it right on the money with the concept of the 3-4 D and the whole Jenkins on the bench deal. It makes me enraged when I watched teams go down the field while Big Kris is sitting on the bence and Pouha is on his back every play. The only time the prevent should be used is with under one minute remaining on your side of the 50 to keep things in front of you. Once the other team crosses the 50 you use the back of the end zone as the extra defender and rush 4. I you watched the Jets did the opposite. I would say the Mangini got outfoxed more by Josh McDaniels. We put up 34 points on Belichiks man boobs defense and scored whenever we needed too.
We did win the game but I can understand why people would be concerned with some of the stuff that went on. We really dont match up well against the Pats personell on offense too good either. I think the coachgin staff gets a C-.
One thing I disagree with is the Mangini wont make adjustments based on what happened. I’ve seen him make adjustments this whole year and its a good reason why we are 7-3. I’ve been killing Sutton and Schott this year and Mangini a little smack on the wrist from time to time, but Mangini is here to stay. I think that WHEN he lets Sutton go this offseason, you’ll see a big difference in the defensive play calling when he gets a hand picked guy he trusts in there

]]> By: Harlan Lachman http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/11/17/analysis-was-mangini-outcoached/#comment-109953 Harlan Lachman Tue, 18 Nov 2008 02:18:59 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=7565#comment-109953 I finally watched the end of the Pats game. For those not paying attention, I had put in some billable hours and then gone to bed after turning off the game after the two point play on Thursday. I was fed up with the Jets. I have four main objections to what happened. For the record, if the Mangini had not screwed the pooch on any one of these decisions, we would not have needed OT and a missed assignment on Keller to win this game: 1) I could not believe the last Jets offensive play of regulation. On third down, the Pats had no times out left and a first down and the game is over. Even if our coward HC wants to run the ball when a play action fake had a great chance to ice the game, why give the strategy away. Why pack it in with no real receiver so the Pats could pack it in? Why not run the semi spread with TJ and Tony R in the backfield and two WR flanked out. At least there is a threat of a pass. [Note, Bassett, if you have a way to find out, I think it is probably provable that for the most part, when we run TJ with without Tony R, his yards per carry are much less than when there are two receivers and a FB]. 2) When the Pats had to score in their next to the last possession in regulation, not assured they would get the ball back (which as I point out above they should not have done so easily), the Jets rushed four and they empowered Jenkins - the Pats could do nothing and Jenkins even got a sack. Yet on the last Pats drive of regulation, they rushed three, keeping Jenkins, their best player either on the bench or rendering him ineffective thereby making the HS QB much more effective. Two things make this conservative defensive strategy even more inexcusable. First, is Mangini's inability to admit it was completely stupid, assuring Jet fans we will be victimized by this type of playing not to lose stupidity again. Second, this was the exact same strategy that was at least partly responsible for the TD at the end of the third quarter. We rushed three then too and Cassell had all day and although the Jet defender originally stayed with Watson, he then fell down on the third move. My biggest gripe about this CS is that their egos are so huge they are incapable of learning from their errors. One has to admit something is wrong to be able to change it. Most everyone does not fix what ain't broke. BTW, those above who characterize the choice as blitzing are sort of missing the point. In most 3-4 defenses, 4 rush. The challenge for offenses is not knowing which 4. 3) The time out on the last play in regulation was inexcusable. Why give the Pats more time to work on the last play? Why give the HS QB any break. The Jets had been trying to stop the Pats the play(s) before? So we did not have to change up. I guess if Eric had finally admitted how he had been conceding a TD with his stupid rush three strategy and used the time out to put Jenkins back in and go to a 4 man rush, it might have made sense. But for more of the same…Really dumb. 4) But as dumb as the time out was, it was not as dumb as not jamming Moss at the line of scrimmage as they had been. Only Mangini is dumb enough to make Chris Collingsworth seem intelligent. We were going to double Moss either way. So, trying to be disruptive of whatever route he ran couldn't hurt. It would have given Moss a lot less opportunity to get a clean release - and get open for the catch. One last observation, this one no fault of our CS. We need Harris back. Bowens is not doing the job. The last Pats TD would not have occurred if Bowens had not whiffed on the sack. I would not bring him back next year. This is his second year with Suttoni. He is a vet. He had his chance and he muffed it. I would rather go with Spencer or some other young LB pickup or draft pick who with some PT at least theoretically has the potential to get better. harlan I finally watched the end of the Pats game. For those not paying
attention, I had put in some billable hours and then gone to bed after
turning off the game after the two point play on Thursday. I was fed up with the Jets.

I have four main objections to what happened. For the record, if the
Mangini had not screwed the pooch on any one of these decisions, we
would not have needed OT and a missed assignment on Keller to win this
game:

1) I could not believe the last Jets offensive play of regulation. On
third down, the Pats had no times out left and a first down and the
game is over. Even if our coward HC wants to run the ball when a play
action fake had a great chance to ice the game, why give the strategy
away. Why pack it in with no real receiver so the Pats could pack it in?
Why not run the semi spread with TJ and Tony R in the backfield and two
WR flanked out. At least there is a threat of a pass. [Note, Bassett, if you have a way to find out, I think it is probably provable that for the most part,
when we run TJ with without Tony R, his yards per carry are much less than when there are two receivers and a FB].

2) When the Pats had to score in their next to the last possession in
regulation, not assured they would get the ball back (which as I point
out above they should not have done so easily), the Jets rushed four and
they empowered Jenkins – the Pats could do nothing and Jenkins even got a sack. Yet on the last Pats drive of regulation, they rushed three, keeping Jenkins, their best player either on the bench or rendering him ineffective
thereby making the HS QB much more effective. Two things make this
conservative defensive strategy even more inexcusable. First, is
Mangini’s inability to admit it was completely stupid, assuring Jet fans
we will be victimized by this type of playing not to lose stupidity
again. Second, this was the exact same strategy that was at least partly
responsible for the TD at the end of the third quarter. We rushed three
then too and Cassell had all day and although the Jet defender
originally stayed with Watson, he then fell down on the third move. My
biggest gripe about this CS is that their egos are so huge they are
incapable of learning from their errors. One has to admit something is
wrong to be able to change it. Most everyone does not fix what ain’t
broke. BTW, those above who characterize the choice as blitzing are sort of missing the point. In most 3-4 defenses, 4 rush. The challenge for offenses is not knowing which 4.

3) The time out on the last play in regulation was inexcusable. Why give
the Pats more time to work on the last play? Why give the HS QB any
break. The Jets had been trying to stop the Pats the play(s) before? So
we did not have to change up. I guess if Eric had finally admitted how
he had been conceding a TD with his stupid rush three strategy and used
the time out to put Jenkins back in and go to a 4 man rush, it might
have made sense. But for more of the same…Really dumb.

4) But as dumb as the time out was, it was not as dumb as not jamming
Moss at the line of scrimmage as they had been. Only Mangini is dumb
enough to make Chris Collingsworth seem intelligent. We were going to
double Moss either way. So, trying to be disruptive of whatever route he
ran couldn’t hurt. It would have given Moss a lot less opportunity to
get a clean release – and get open for the catch.

One last observation, this one no fault of our CS. We need Harris back.
Bowens is not doing the job. The last Pats TD would not have occurred if
Bowens had not whiffed on the sack. I would not bring him back next
year. This is his second year with Suttoni. He is a vet. He had his
chance and he muffed it. I would rather go with Spencer or some other young LB pickup or draft pick who with some PT at least theoretically has the potential to get better.

harlan

]]> By: Big Fat Paulie http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/11/17/analysis-was-mangini-outcoached/#comment-109947 Big Fat Paulie Tue, 18 Nov 2008 01:37:59 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=7565#comment-109947 "OMG! Our third-year head coach got schooled by a three-time Super Bowl winner and a sure-fire Hall-of-Famer, yet still managed to win the game! Oh noes …." with a 2nd string QB and a 4th string RB. Speaking of school.... First year head coach TONY SPARANO schooled the HC OF NE with the WC (WILDCAT). SS the DC of the NYG not only took the HC and OC of NE to school during the SB, he also dropped them off at the POOL. Now go get yourself a slice of MP (Mystic Pizza) Ahhhh yeah! “OMG! Our third-year head coach got schooled by a three-time Super Bowl winner and a sure-fire Hall-of-Famer, yet still managed to win the game! Oh noes ….”

with a 2nd string QB and a 4th string RB.

Speaking of school….

First year head coach TONY SPARANO schooled the HC OF NE with the WC (WILDCAT).

SS the DC of the NYG not only took the HC and OC of NE to school during the SB, he also dropped them off at the POOL.

Now go get yourself a slice of MP (Mystic Pizza)

Ahhhh yeah!

]]> By: gagee123 http://www.thejetsblog.com/2008/11/17/analysis-was-mangini-outcoached/#comment-109939 gagee123 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:26:14 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=7565#comment-109939 The only significant weakness the Jets have shown in the last few weeks is the inability of the secondary to manage the prevent defense. This is more likely a personnel issue than a coaching issue. The decision to cut Miller and to bring in Law seems to address this issue. How effectively, time will tell. While Prevent D is agonizing to watch, it is high percentage football. If we felt we deserved J-Co one-hander, why aren't the Pats entitled to Moss' stretch catch with 1 sec remaining? Playing a great 1st half doesn't mean the Pats can't ramp it up in the second. What was really most impressive were the Jets ability to perform two long drives with the score tied. Maybe Jets couldn't stop the Pat's in the 2nd half, but neither could the Pats stop us. That's why we won. Enjoy the victory. Go Jets The only significant weakness the Jets have shown in the last few weeks is the inability of the secondary to manage the prevent defense.

This is more likely a personnel issue than a coaching issue. The decision to cut Miller and to bring in Law seems to address this issue. How effectively, time will tell.

While Prevent D is agonizing to watch, it is high percentage football. If we felt we deserved J-Co one-hander, why aren’t the Pats entitled to Moss’ stretch catch with 1 sec remaining? Playing a great 1st half doesn’t mean the Pats can’t ramp it up in the second.

What was really most impressive were the Jets ability to perform two long drives with the score tied. Maybe Jets couldn’t stop the Pat’s in the 2nd half, but neither could the Pats stop us. That’s why we won.

Enjoy the victory. Go Jets

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