How Good Is Tannenbaum?
Our erstwhile General Manager has been excoriated in the press for spending so much money in the off-season so I thought it was worthwhile looking at where we are as a team on Thanksgiving 2008 compared to 2007 at the same time and see if we need to be giving a little thanks for a job well done.
As a reminder, on Thanksgiving 2007 we were 2 and 9 and on our way to oblivion. Our offensive line was the worst in football, we couldn’t keep two wide receivers on the field at the same time (I don’t count McCareins, nor should I), our running back had one touchdown and we couldn’t stop anyone from running against us. We were weak up the middle on defense and had no answer for bigger, stronger clubs.
So what happened? Let’s look at each squad in detail and see where the new guys came from.
On the offense, we got Brett Favre at QB (trade), Alan Faneca at left guard (FA), Damien Woody at right tackle (FA), Dustin Keller at Tight End (draft) and Tony Richardson at fullback (FA). Without gilding the lily, each can be said to be at the top seven at their position. From our existing players last year, we retained Nick Mangold (drafted earlier) and Thomas Jones, who was obtained by asking the Bears to trade second round picks (ours was higher than theirs). All he’s doing is leading the conference in rushing. This offense is clearly superior in talent to most clubs in football.
On defense, we got big Jenks at the nose (trade), Calvin Pace at OLB (FA), Harris, a second rounder from last year’s draft (we moved up to get him after moving down for the TJ trade), Revis at corner (we moved up in the first round of the same draft to get him), and Lowery, a 4th rounder this year. Each of these gentlemen is a top seven in the league with the exception of Dwight Lowery who is considered an up-and-comer. Add to this returning players like Kerry Rhodes, a rejuvenated Bryan Thomas, a refreshed Shaun Ellis and the new Eric Barton and this defense can hold its own with any one. Ty Law is back and that cost a cup of coffee. Clearly, this defense is borderline top ten and should improve.
But, where are we, going forward? Did we trade away our future? Well, let’s look at our draft situation after all these deals. We would lose our first (for Favre) if we won a Super Bowl. I’ll take it. If not, we are out a two but have compensation for Vilma which will probably be New Orleans’ two (which will be higher than ours). We’ve already paid the 3 and 5 for Jenks so our 3 and 5 are intact. We will also get a 4th rounder from Washington for Kendall. So, in all likelihood, we will have a full slate of picks in the 2009 draft and an extra 4th rounder. How’s that?
As far as the cap goes, we’re only a million or so below it but it should go up next year. We won’t have the room to make a FA deal of any consequnce but we’re not in trouble either. We’ll also let a few guys go. Baker will cost close to five million against next years cap so he will probably be gone before June. Still, we have guys we need to lock up long term like LW so we’ll need the flexibility.
As of now, there is no cap for 2010 due to the expiration of the CBA. No one knows what’s coming but a rookie cap is likely.
I hate to agree with Adam Schein but its hard to imagine anyone in Tannenbaum’s league as Executive of the Year. We were 4-12 last year and the list of holes in our lineup was daunting. We needed a left guard, a right tackle, a new quarterback, a big nose tackle, a big outside linebacker, a cornerback, a safety and a pass catching tight end. We filled virtually every spot with high end players while sacrificing very little long term to get them.
It’s fair to say that the guy deserves our admiration. Happy Thanksgiving Tanny!
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gholston was a low point though…. but props for keller and lowery
I see that D-Rob is now starting for the Broncos. Anyone know what % of plays he has been in and what that means for the JETS in the 2009 draft?
Let’s also hope Brett can keep the Brocos D on the field for 40 minutes.
I should have added that the Vilma and D-Rob trades were great moves by Tanny and freed up much needed cap space for all of the off season acquisitions. He has done a great job!
He is the man!
Lets remember that in 2006 our cap situation was a disaster not to mention the loss of C -Mart. Tanny has done a great job. He totally changed the roster by year 3. He would have done it sooner if we didnt make the playoffs in year 1 which delayed the D-rob, Vilma etc… trades.
He also just happens to be a cap genuis and Parcells tried to get him to go to Dallas with him.
Tannenbaum has been nothing short of great, and deserves much of the credit for this year’s turnaround. I had my concerns about him when he first took the job (thought he was too much of a numbers guy and not enough of a football mind), but he’s exceeded all expectations and makes Terry Bradway look like a mental midget in retrospect.
As a sidenote, I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure we don’t have to win the SB, only make it there, to have to surrender a first-rounder to the Packers. Also, I think we only get a second-rounder for Vilma if the Saints extend him before the draft, which they definitely will not do. Otherwise it’s a third.
Yes , I was a little skeptical when they announced him to be the new GM , but looks like it worked out. You have to give Mangini a little credit with getting all these news guys in the same page as everyone else. What’s next is he going to draft the next Joe Montana from the 4th Rd
Here are the warts….
- Kendall mess (but we did get a 4th for him)
- Schlegal was a bad pick and taking too early
- E Smith (see sbove) but at least he can play… alittle
- Barlow trade ( but he did win the NE game)
- The Clemens trade might be a bad one but he was highly rated and nobody trusted Chad at that point
There are some minor ones like the Kimo signing etc.. but they were hold the fort guys. No complaints there.
Overall he has done a great job. I seriously wouldnt trade him for any other GM.
Also remember he is one of the originals from when this franchise started to have true success again in 1996. He bleeds Green and White
I think Joe B is right on both the Vilma and the Favre trade.
We have to make the SB to lose the 1st. (who cares at that point)
Vilma has already played enough snaps to get us a 3rd but will have to resign to get a 2nd. Also the Giants will get the Saints 2nd for Shockey. Not sure how that works if they resign Vilma and owe both us and the Gmen a 2nd??
From the original NFL.com and ESPN.com articles:
“The draft pick traded for Favre turns into a third-round selection if he plays in 50 percent of the plays this season, a second-rounder if he plays in 70 percent of the plays and the Jets qualify for the playoffs, and a first-round pick if he plays in 80 percent of the plays and Jets make it to the Super Bowl.
Schefter reports if Favre were to retire after the first year and the Packers got the Jets’ first-round pick, then the Packers would send the Jets a fifth-round pick in 2010. If the Packers get the Jets’ second-round pick, the Jets would get back the Packers’ sixth-round pick in 2010. If the Packers get the Jets’ third-round pick, the Jets would get back the Packers’ seventh-round pick in 2010. Additionally, in the scenario in which the Packers would get the Jets’ first-round pick, Favre must play in at least 50 percent of one playoff game for Green Bay to get that compensation.”
“If Vilma reaches certain playtime incentives and signs a contract extension with New Orleans, New York would instead receive a second- or third-round pick in 2009. The Jets would then give the Saints their fourth-round pick next year.”
So looks like we so far owe a 3rd rounder, and at least should go to a 2nd rounder , this is the only time I’m hoping we give up our 1st round pick, I mean come on I think we all give up 3 1st Rd picks to go to the SB, and I think Parting with Vilma was a good Idea, I was upset with it for a while, but Barton is doing a good job , I figured Vilma and Harris would be the next Ray Lewis and Bart Scott, well its working out with Barton even though Harris is not in there, but the problem wit me is that Barton does not have many years left , he is 31, I hope Mike T use his Magic to find us a Patrick Willis from the draft class and also a FB, Richardson has been awesome so far, but Ithink this will be his last year, so we can use one of our 4th RD picks to get a decent FB
Happy Thanksgiving everyone
Tanny did a tremendous job of taking over a very bad cap situation and in 2 years putting the franchise in a position to fill major needs and having the cap room to do so.
On draft day 2 years in a row he has successfully been able to trade up for players that Mangini/scouts identified as a major increase in talent over players who would have been available if we would have stood pat.
The Favre move was brilliance. It was the organization saying “insanity is doing the same thing every year and expecting a different result” hence trying to win a championship with a QB that cannot make all the throws.
I also, in the back of my mind, think they did not re-up with Kendall because they KNEW Faneca was going to be a FA.
Also liked that they stuck with the plan in 2006 draft and did not trade up to get Leinart or Bush – as EVERY NY paper was calling for.
I agree that Tangini’s drafts have also been spectacular. How about the three guys we traded up for? Revis, Harris and Keller. Three guys that will be cornerstones of our franchise.
bassett u need to read this, and every one else very interesting report
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-4-409/Jets-on-pace-to-obliterate-40-year-old-record.html?post=true
DH is back at practice! Whoo, so is Smith tho.
“As far as the cap goes, we’re only a million or so below it but it should go up next year. We won’t have the room to make a FA deal of any consequnce but we’re not in trouble either. We’ll also let a few guys go. Baker will cost close to five million against next years cap so he will probably be gone before June. Still, we have guys we need to lock up long term like LW so we’ll need the flexibility.”
As TJB’s resident cap “genius”, my take differs slightly:
One of the downsides to a successful year like this one is shaping up to be is that many incentives will be met and they will bite next year. Couple this with the fact that many contributing players on this year’s team are either free agents or nearing the end of their contract (including big parts of the future like Ratty, Clowney, Washington etc). They have a ton of work to do to assess who is expendable, who to replace relatively cheaply (and for every Abe Elam or Tony Richardson, there could be an Adrien Clarke or Darian Barnes), who to extend now, who to keep waiting, who to restructure etc etc. Simply cutting the dead wood isn’t going to be enough…but I do have faith in them to get it right.
A lot of course hinges on whether Brett returns (but even if he doesn’t, they will need to replace him, so it’s unlikely any significant spare cap room will be available) but I have confidence that they will find a way around this, as they have always made moves with an eye on the future (unlike every trade proposal or potential signing most of you guys suggest – just kidding).
Sometimes it seems to kill the NY media but you have to tip your hat to Tanny on bucking the odds by spending on “the right” free agents. That goes without saying that you have to give Mangini credit as well for working in all of those new shiny pieces. He also managed to respectfully “reign in” Mr Favre, deflecting as much attention away from it as possible. But hey, Tanny picked Mangini so give him credit for that too !
At this point Tannenbaum has earned enough benefit of the doubt to believe he’ll figure out a way to keep Ratcliff, Clowney and more importantly Washington without too much of a problem. Let’s give him credit for finding those players in the first place. I honestly believe we may be going from one Brett to another in regard to the QB position.
It bugged me all off season as the media overreacted to the FA signings, calling the Jets “built to win now”. This team has been as much about the draft, Revis, Harris, Fergie, Mangold, Washington, Keller, Lowery, come on. Those signings created the proper balance with the “right” vets.
How can you be anything but thrilled to be a Jet fan? The organization is in good hands from top to bottom, don’t forget Woody being the man behind the wallet and not overreacting to last year’s one step back for two steps forward.
One of the best parts of these constant Favre pressers for me has been the consistent feedback you receive on what the Jets have become from an insider’s perspective; professional, cohesive, team focused and all about winning. It all starts with the top, the mantra of the organization and types of players they have brought in (please see Cincy).
‘08 NFL Executive of the Year, without question. Not even debatable.
Give props when props are due- these guys are usually dodging bullets! great job Tanny! as posted this offseason- the biggest addition has been Jenkins. What a difference maker!!! He destroyed Mawae this past weekend, one of my old time favorite Jets. Oh well. Bronco bustin’ next!
Go JETS!
Gholston definitely isn’t a low point… mark my words- he is going to develop into a fantastic role playing defensive player.
forgive me if this a repeat.
in reading the first lines of this post and in talks about teams (such as this) being compared to the yankees (shoveling money out), i wonder if people realize one of the great things about football….. the salary cap. you can never compare a football team to the yankees because of it. it is one of the things that i think makes football great. you have a limit to take on players…. like the jets did. a team from one year to the next can be totally different and that makes football exciting. the jets acquired players that suited their needs. at a great price (they didnt just throw cash around since they knew they had a limited amount of it). they were right about those players though. the price comes with getting rid of players like chadwick (whom i still love and wear his jersey proudly). you can’t just keep buying players. you have a limit which has to be met each day. the jets met their limit and have ended up with a damn fine team. they were a motley crew of starters in the beginning, but still won many games. now they have found their rhythm and are winning even more games and showing they are a team to be reckoned with. this is just what i had hoped for when i saw the acquisitions… sorry for the random post, but… J-E-T-S!
Great job Tangini, but why didn’t we begin spending zillions after ‘06 season to get the right roster?
We were coming off a 10-6 season a cupcake which we knew would get much tougher and Herm’s 4-3 personel didn’t fit Mangini’s 3-4 scheme. Instead, we squandered trade value for Vilma and D-Rob by playing them out of position and into eminent injury, when we could have got higher draft picks who could have been contributing today!
Also, wouldn’t it have made sence to open Woody’s wallet to accommodate the discgruntled Pete Kendall by letting a million fly out and protect his two franchise quarterbacks?
You didn’t need a crystal ball to see Brooks Bollinger playing out a dismal 4-12 season – ouch!
In summary, I congratulate Tangini and do not question his ability. I question his timing. Of course, a new stadium always help, eh?
Bent, et al
I defer to your superior information.
It really is remarkable that virtually every move the guy made last year is smelling like a rose. We filled almost every off-season need with first-rate, in some cases, top flight players and we didn’t blow up our draft future doing it. We’ve got an MVP candidate at quarterback and a front runner for defensive POY at nose tackle and neither one was even on the radar last season.
Think of all the scary might-have-beens with these guys he picked up. Favre (too old, too reckless, doesn’t know the system, too big a personality for the young coach to manage), Jenkins (never played a 3-4, perennially out-of-shape, disgruntled, bad clubhouse guy), Pace (draft bust, only 1 year in 4-3), Faneca (over the hill), Woody (out of position at tackle). Tanny had to look past these drawbacks and make the moves anyway knowing it was his job on the line.
Tanny’s draft acumen is also unrivalled. Compare his drafts to the last few Patriots’ drafts. They’re not in the same universe even if Gholston is a bust (which I do not believe).
Ed(itor)
There will be no compensation for D-Rob. He will not play 65% of the snaps unless something drastic changes in the next few weeks.
one more thing i’ve been looking forward to and mentioned in a post before….. i like clemens okay….. but ratliff??? next??? i really want to see him play!
Hey dont forget my boy Bubba Franks! I know hes been injured but still he was part of the offseason adds. :)
I think we forget that 2010 will be uncapped and maybe Woody is willing to pony up some more to make sure his new stadium is filled.
Just something to think about….
I cant believe we gave into Baker this offseason. He has done nothing to deserve anything.
Find away to keep Leon Washington in Green and White and i will be a happy fan.
I’m thrilled with the Jets no end, but please be careful not to count your chickens. As a Packer fan, I have seen a few of those supremely confident teams go down, heartbreakingly down.
I agree that Tannbaum is a no brainer for exec of the year. He made some brilliant moves, the last being bringing Brett to NY. As a long time GB fan, it was clear to us that Brett did not want to come to NY. It was nothing personal, but he wanted to stay in the NFC in a system he knew. Thompson wanted him as far from GB as possible. The ultimate irony is that Thompson won last year’s award. I don’t think he will be a candidate this year. There are still 5 games left, so let’s not count our turkeys in advance, but it is looking good for the Jets! Brett for MVP!
For discussion sake….lets say –
Pack get our #2 (although hope it is a #1)
We get a #3 for Vima (Saints would get our #4 in 2010)
We get a #4 for Kendall
We get #6 for D.Rob (not sure what the comp pick really is?)
2009 – 1,3,3,4,4,5,6,6,7
2010 – 1,2,3,5,6,7
I see ammo for Tanny to move around the 09 dratf and solidify/upgrade some pieces. Unlike, the last several years, the need positions are not nearly as vast ……so that always works to a club’s advantage.
So far, the two best GM’s seem to be in Gotham but Tanny gets the nod over Reese bc the Jets Roster required a completed overhaul.
Dean:
Tannenbaum did not spend any money after 2006 because (a) the types of players they needed were unavailable and (b) they had very limited cap space. I was saying throughout the offseason that year that we shouldn’t expect too many signings, but that the cap would be in great shape for 2008 and they would spend then. And they did, despite many people insisting they wouldn’t because the front office was too cheap. Tannenbaum was called an idiot for not even trying to sign Steinbach to play guard (when he signed for $49.5m over seven years and the Jets had just $2m of cap space). A lot of this was due to the fact that the media misrespresented the amount of cap space the Jets had, so there was a perception that they had simply kept the money which was not true.
They have executed the plan exactly the way I would have done. It’s a shame that last year was such a sour one, but it hasn’t hurt our chances this year. Don’t expect much spending next year, as most of the available money will be needed to re-sign our own.
In Tanny’s defense, I was glad to see the back of Kendall because he was so disruptive. It hurt them in the short term, sure, but I am glad they have Faneca instead now. Note also that they may have sacrificed trade value by keeping Vilma and Robertson that extra year but they saved a ton of money in terms of the dead cap space that would have arisen if they got rid of both a year sooner (and anyway, if they kept Kendall and lost those two, they would surely have ended up 4-12 anyway with Kassel and Pouha starting!)
Rose: Note 2010 MAY BE uncapped. Not necessarily. All bets are off, but the Jets should be in an OK position either way.
Finally – DC Jets fan, Jets would give up their 2009 #4 in that scenario, but it’s possible they could get nothing extra for Vilma or Robertson. That’s fine though. Based on needs and cap space, they have more than enough picks.
If cheap solutions like Ratliff, Clowney, Caulcrick etc can emerge next year or in 2010, the cap situation will look a lot more rosey.
Remember, too that when Brett leaves it frees up almost thirteen million in cap space. If you fill his spot with a guy like Ratliff, it opens up other opportunities.
Being a Jet fan for so long, I had to see Tannenbaum’s moves come together, before giving praise. Well, almost everything he did has worked out. He turned our laughing stock into a force. It’s a great feeling, when you can’t wait for the next Sunday to come. Thanks, Mike.
What is this 2010 no cap that I keep reading. Does this mean that come 2010 there will be no cap in football? if so how long will it last.
having this cap is what makes football the best sport by far!!
Thanks for the clarification.
Bent,
I appeciate the detailed explanation and recognize I’ve got a lot to learn regarding the D-Rob and Vilma contracts and how the numbers relate to Jets dead cap space. Still, it’s hard to understand how (why) it was better for Jets to sit on D-Rob and Vilma for the season?
Limited availability of NG’s and ILB’s shouldn’t have prevented Jets from moving D-Rob and Vilma, because one thing Jets had no shortage of was holes to fill.
No one expected the Jets to go to the Super Bowl. Why not play with Kassel and Pouha and land players in other positions (O-line, DB,s) or draft picks. I know Tannbaum pulled a “Houdini,” masterfully breaking the shackles to D-Rob’s contract … just days away from eating it. I just can’t fathom how (why) he got himself into the desperate straights to begin with?
I’ll have to understand more about the money side of the house to comprehend how (why) it was better to sit on Vilma and D-Rob for a wasted, injury-filled year.
From where I’m sitting (admittedly ignorant) it still doesn’t make sense?!
Fustrated in ‘07 and Elated in ‘08!