Patience With Vernon Gholston
Sitting in the stands Sunday wet and cold, my patience with Vernon Gholston seemed to wear a bit thin on a play where Cutler rolled out with Gholston in pursuit, who had Cutler dead to rights on his own two yard line.
Making that sack would have been a difference-maker in the game and it was a sack that you’d expect a 4.6 second 40-yard dashing linebacker to make, but he hesitated and it didn’t happen. I screamed obscenities that were lost in the cold November Rain. Said Mangini yesterday:
“He had a significant shot [Sunday]. You know, there were plays to be made. You know, his opportunities were based on his ability to make those plays … I think he needs to continue to improve.”
So where do we go from here? Same place we’ve been heading since the spring. With quality personnel ahead of him, I still think that there’s no reason to rush him.
He’s getting payed a lot of money? Big deal, that’s what the cap is about. Frustrated that they could have taken someone to impact the game this year? The Jets have used their high draft picks for need in the first two years of their reign, and this was the first real BPA pick they made in the first round. They were entitled to it with the work they did in free agency.
I am going to give the kid at least two or three full seasons before I pass final judgement. D’Brickashaw was panned for two years, and I spent that time pleading to stay judgement. Now with some other players around him, look at him now. His sack total has declined precipitously and his run blocking has roundly improved. People routinely complained that they wanted to see shutdown play and a mean streak from him, and now I see both in 2008.
I know it’s infuriating to live with the mistakes, reversals of fortune, and what-could-have-been plays, but give the kid more time, even if you do need to hurl epiphets into the sky come gameday. It’s going to click for him eventually.
Before the draft, I argued that the Jets should take Gholston. Like you, Bassett, I think we should give him another season before we judge him.
However, we have to be concerned that he is either doubting his thought process on the field or lacks passion for the game.
Even if chasing down Culter was the wrong decision, he needs to have the mentality that if he messes up well at least he hit the qb and inflicted pain on the qb. Not giving 100% one way or the other is what is truely maddening about Gholston.
If he has doubts about whether or not he’s making the right decisions, that is correctable. If he lacks passion for the game, we’ll then he will be a huge bust.
Gholston is in tough situation he really is. He knows about the hype around him and he was overconfident when he was drafted in this year’s draft. He wanted to come out and become the most dominant linebacker in the league using only his physical tools. He still get gets good penetration with his physical tools however its his confidence that has taken the biggest blow and that is why he called LT not that he can just give him pointers about the position because obviously the studying he is doing alone is not helping him but to bring back the confidence he lacked before knowing that he is going to a source with an unlimited amount of knowledge of the position, I dont think he recieved that before the season when he was falling behind. I question the coaching staff for not breaking him slowly into the system while balancing his strengths and weakness just like they did with bryan thomas in 2006. Regardless of that his confidence which is showing every week because we have seen more of him every week is the gauge of what we should measure him this year, not his passion or decision making we will leave that for the years after he recieves a monster contract afterwards and tears up the league (See Kerry Rhodes).
correction:
Gholston is in a tough situation
A lot of so-called “experts” called Mario Williams of the Texans a bust in his first year. Now look at him.
Give VG another year at least.
You most wait until next year to judge Gholston. But right now there is a lot of work that needs to be done with him.
I was furious at that play…Gholston had time and space to lunge his body at Cutler before he got the ball away. The fact that as he threw the ball, Vernon was an arms-reach away means he could’ve been closer if he dives at him a second earlier. He needed that killer instinct that he’s gonna hit that QB no matter what. Turned out to be a big 3rd-down conversion.
I def agree he needs more time and I think he can be a very effective player, but I hope he listens more to his mentor LT about finding that killer instinct and high-speed motor. Its the lack of recklessness on that play, regardless of what could have happened, that pains me.
I wanted us to draft VG, and obviously, there’s disappointment in his play, so far… but, if you look at his play in College, he did have that killer instinct. He was a man among boys, using his sheer athleticism, to literally swat down players.
He can’t do that in the NFL, where he’s a boy among men.
So, aside from learning a new D, and a new position, he has to learn technique & moves. In view of that, it’s no surprise to me that he’s thinking too much, demonstrated by that hesitation, at the wrong time vs Cutler.
A key will be if he can get that first sack, and if that clicks the switch on for him. If I were Mangini/Sutton, I’d do everything I could to get him his first sack, even to the point of designing a defensive set, specifically, to free up Gholston.
He deserves more time, before bust is even hinted… he’s just a kid.
You’re giving Gholston more credit than Mangini did in his press conference. The way you quoted Mangini doesn’t do it justice. When asked about Gholston, Mangini said, “He had a significant shot [Sunday]. You know, there were plays to be made. You know, his opportunities were based on his ability to make those plays.” He was then asked by the same journalist what Gholston did with those opportunities, to which Mangini replied, “I think he needs to continue to improve.” Which is Mangini-speak for, he sucked big time and I’m majorly disappointed.
So it’s great that you’re willing to be patient with Vernon, but from what I heard, it seems that coach is less than happy.
I hear the criticism, and I am waiting for him to do something really good also, but on that play chasing cutler- i really didnt see it at the time as a bad play by him and still dont! He was chasing a mobile QB who he had on the run that was on the verge of running out of bounds, he wanted to make sure the QB didnt get infront of him and he held his containment of keeping cutler infront and forcing him out of bounds! If he rushed himself, dove at him and missed then we would be critizing him for how silly cutler made him look. The bottom line is he applied good pressure to cutler, and our secondary, LB’s coverage brokedown and cutler made a perfect throw across his body on the run. What is said is that the ball was in the air for a good amount of time and there wasnt a defender in the area to break it up! I dont fault VG on the play, he applied pressure, and thats what we keep asking him to do. Yes he could of closed a bit better, but many times u see these modile QB make people miss, VG was forcing cutler out of bounds.
Good point Brad, how about the braindead secondary on that play letting a TE catch a pass for almost 25 yards. They had 8 guys in converage, inexplicable. Kerry Rhodes where are you? The entire secondary, with the exceptionof Revis has been questionable at best this year. They better wake up cause this was the perfect blue print to score on the Jets D.
From a Houston sports blogger in August 2007 (one year after being drafted).
I would understand the Texans being concerned about Mario Williams. Maybe he’s young and just hasn’t gotten it yet. He certainly has the physical skills to succeed.
So far, he simply hasn’t shown much on the field. That was true again Saturday night when he seemed reluctant to take on blocks. Unless I missed it, he didn’t seem to create pressure or break up a play.
One season is way too early to make a judgement. There are many players over the years who were drafted high and needed time to develop, but went on to have very productive careers.
What difference does it make? Either he’ll improve or he won’t. There’s nothing to be done but keep coaching him and giving him opportunities when it’s justifiable. It’s not like you can cut him without major cap ramifications.
I think the comparison to Mario Williams or Brick is unwarranted. VG, unlike them, has not been thrust into a “sink or swim” starter’s position. Instead, the coaching staff has done everything to spoon feed VG to allow him to progress. He hasn’t. That failed pressure against Cutler was Exhibit A. There were many things he could’ve done, but an LT or Merriman would’ve gone straight after him and forced Cutler to get rid of the ball in a panic, rather than allow him to continue to look up and try to locate an open receiver. VG is a great athlete trying to become a good football player. Unlike Brick or Mario, there’s nothing that I’ve seen that he does well on a football field.
I did not want the Jets to draft VG because I was concerned that he just wasn’t a football player. I only saw him as an edge rusher who had none of the other pass rushing skills of a legitimate force. He was a “BPA” pick, but my only question is was he the best player? I liked Derrick Harvey more. I know Harvey hasn’t lit up the NFL (and he was hurt by a holdout that might not have happened with the Jets), but he has shown way more flashes of becoming a good NFL player. As time goes on, the fact that the Jets took VG over Harvey, Rivers, Mayo and McKelvin (not to mention a whole host of offensive players) will be another black mark on the Jets draft record. The only saving graces have been Keller and Lowery, who I think can become a good cover corner.
It’s hard to say if gholston looks slow because he’s thinking or because he looks like a bodybuilder that isn’t fluid. If i am correct i think he didn’t have a good short shuttle at the draft. Can anyone confirm? He looks like a defensive lineman running around, not a linebacker.
The man i going to be a bust simple as that you cant teach killer instinct and he doesnt have it
LOOKS LIKE TARZAN PLAYS LIKE JANE!!!!!!
Gholston ran a 4.40 shuttle at the combine, which is actually very good. His problems are all to do with a lack of natural football instincts, unless he is out of shape or hurt, which we couldn’t know about with the current regime.
I disagree that he hasn’t progressed. The fact he is getting reps and almost blew up a play with a good read is testament to that. Maybe it is slower than you might expect, but it’s still progress and using one play to decide one way or the other isn’t fair.
The main reason I didn’t want to draft him was because I didn’t see him contributing this year and I thought we might be pretty good. However, it’s too soon to say the pick won’t pay dividends in the medium to long term.
everyone falls back on the excuse of changing from a 4-3 DE to 3-4 LB to explain VGs uninspired play – and for mostly good reason in my opinion. there is clearly a lot more responsibility (and stuff to think about) as a 3-4 LB than a 4-3 DE, where essentially your only job is to contain the edge, stop the run if it is run at you, and rush the passer.
however, think back to the titans game. he was in the game late in the 2nd half – basically garbage time. there was no sceme. there was nothing to think about. it was “pin your ears back and kill the QB”. you had a fresh VG going against a tired OL that knew the game was over. what better situation for a pass rusher?
it is these situations that frustrate me as a fan. do something – anticipate the snap count, whatever – to make your presence known…on the field and to fans.
I agree with Brad. At least he was in Cutler’s face. On a wet field I’m
thinking he didn’t want Cutler to get around him. As soon as that throw
was made I’m thinking interception.
Sadly, the Denver receiver has 3 Jets around him, one to the left
one to the right and one behind him. What about in front of him!
Clearly that’s not all his fault. Come to think of it how many
Jets got that close to Cutler all game!
I’m not giving up on Gholston any time soon, however, what was doubly infuriating about his hesitation while closing in on Cutler was that, as I pointed out after the Pats game, he did exactly the same thing when pursuing Cassel during the fourth quarter. The plays are virtually identical. Both quarterbacks rolled right toward the far sideline and both times Gholston pulled up in his final strides. If improvement comes in baby steps, we can take small (okay, pathetic) comfort in that he came one baby step closer to getting Cutler than he did Cassel. If he had continued to charge hard he might have gotten a hit or altered Cutler’s throw. On the Kassell play, he would have gotten a pressure. Of course I’m reaching for comfort.
Another loser from Ohio State.
Guys, didn’t Mario Williams have like 8 sacks his first year and was hurt at the same time?
The only, ONLY knock on Williams has always been “was it worth it to take him over Reggie Bush and Vince Young (at the time)”, but mostly Reggie Bush.
he had 4.5 sacks … and still I think the only reason he was really questioned wasn’t his relatively low sack total, but moreso the fact they passed up on Reggie Bush to get him.
The Texans’ fans were screaming about not taking Vince Young at the time.
Meanwhile, if VG never plays another down it doesn’t change the fact that we’ve done brilliantly in the draft the past three years. 2006 Ferguson, Mangold, Leon Washington, 2007 Revis, Harris, Thomas Jones and Stuckey, 2008 Kris Jenkins, Keller and Lowery (others on the club like Ainge, M. Henry, etc.). If you don’t think that’s good, look at the Patriots last three years. To judge our drafts on Gholston’s future promise, or lack thereof, is plain stupid.
Andrew, while you are correct in saying it isn’t a fair judgment of this regime’s ability to draft overall … wasn’t this thread about Gholston?
You chop away at a tree without cutting down the entire forest!
GHOLSTON IS A BUM!! All i ever hear is the change of speed from college to the pros he obviously did well on his wonderlic exam and his 40 and short shuttle but you cant teach heart and will and he has neither of them
Same issue I had with Gholsten coming out of OSU. He dosent run through the guy holding the ball. He uses his speed to get there and then almost slows down for impact?? It was a play that had a glimmer of hope and then Gholsten slows up and then 4 Jets watch the ball drop into the receivers hands?? The whole game seems to fall that way
No one knows whether Gholston will ultimately be a bust, in a long line of Jet high first round busts, or will become a player. What I can say about the play on Sunday is when I saw it I said why doesn’t he have his hands up? He came at Cutler with his arms down by his sides. He was close enough to knock the ball down or at least change the trajectory. This is like a basketball player playing defense with his arms down. It is just bad technique. I am sure they have been trying hard to coach this guy up and Mangini is clearly frustrated that he just hasn’t gotten it.
The main problem I see is the lack of potential explosiveness. He just seem slow. 4.6 is pretty quick but it’s timed and not football speed. He has not exhibited pass rush moves, he bull rushes each time. he seems to constantly get pinned inside on outside plays. he just doesn’t look good at the moment. I expected to see him flying around out there.
Woodley on the steelers is having a great 2nd year and was invisible last year so we should be so lucky to have Gholston replicate Woodley’s maturation.
lastly, BT is the real BUST. he is OK, Solid at best. Everytime I look at him I just think to myself that we took him over ED REED. WTF
you cant make a comparison from ghostman to woodley. Woodley was a middle second round pick. Ghostman was a top 10 pick you have to look at first rounders that play the position listen i understand you want to make a comparison and other than merrimen i would have to say what about Demarcus Ware who started 16 games had 58 tackles 47 solo and 8 sacks while learning a new position i know Ghostman doesnt start but he hasnt even showed a glim of hope
If Gholston does not get a sack by the game at Seattle, then you can definitely call him a bust.
At least Lowery did some good.
Problem is that Gholston was not the BPA at #6. Anyone that watched him play in college who was not blinded by his bulging biceps would have noticed that against the best competition (LSU for instance) he was horrible and played slow. Getting one sack on Jake Long in college made this guy $20m and he will be out of the league in 3 years. It is a joke to hear Tannebaum’s name as executive of the year given this incredible miss. This kind of miss sets a franchise back and they will be paying for it over the next few years. He should stick to 4th round picks and TEs. The fact that the Pats traded down one slot later and drafted a linebacker (Mayo) who is tearing it up in the 3-4 only adds further salt to the wound.
Is it the same people calling Gholston a bust that call D’Brick a bust?
Maybe some people just like the word bust. Perhaps they need an explanation of what that means?
A bust is someone who, given time, proves to be worthless. Given time is the key there. With less than one year, and coming out of school as a junior, there is no way anyone can call this kid a bust.
Is he tearing up the NFL? No he is not. Would Mangini start him if he thought he would contribute? Probably.
Maybe he will make some big plays down the stretch for a playoff run or maybe he will make some impact plays in the playoffs.
Looking at it positively I’d say maybe he’ll be a secret weapon that has yet to be unleashed. Maybe the coaching staff knows exactly what they are doing trying to get him chomping at the proverbial bit so that he will explode suddenly with production.
Or, if after a couple of years he is just a regular starter and contributes just enough to help the Jets win consistently I still wouldn’t call him a bust. Getting a starter is what you hope for. The 6th pick is not easily traded and they took roll of the dice on a guy that may have potential greatness. It’s hard to fault management.
Gholston is not a bust…yet.
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Dewayne Robertson was a bust. If Gholston carries the cooler or helps with strength and conditioning he is worth more to the team than a guy we trade just to clear up cash.
Gholston is a bust. He’s a Brian Bosworth clone. All muscle no skills. I would have rather drafted Jerod Mayo or Leodis Mckelvin at that pick at least they would contribute right away.
The Boz was AWESOME when he first came into the league. People forget this…he was all-rookie!
He is only regarded as a bust because he never lasted in the NFL due to a combination of injuries and off-field stuff.
I wish Gholston was performing like a Boz clone.
His 2 nephews play for UCLA, one a DE, one a LB. Interesting prospects. They aren’t quite as colorful as he was!
Steal of the draft = Trevor Scott 6th RD DE out of Buffalo for the Oakland Raiders
Has played limited time and leads all rookies with 5 sacks on the year
Gholston is getting paid 10 times more but no production
Why is it that a 6th rd pick making the league minimum can produce but Gholston can’t?