eMailbag: From Everest to Death Valley, Part One
We’re going to answer some more mailbag questions in the next day, so here’s the first batch …
COWHER POWER?
From Jay G. in Lafayette Hill, PA: “If Mangini is fired, do the Jets try to get Bill Cowher to come out of retirement and be the new coach? Remember, he runs the 3-4 defense also, so it seems like it could be a good fit.
Note, Both Bassett and Kirk Cassels have answered this, since so many are asking about The Chin.
KIRK CASSELS: It would be a treat for the Jets to get their second Super Bowl-winning coach since the Tuna. Our run offense and the potential our defense showed in flashes this season would be an ideal complement to the gruff, big-chinned, mustachioed Cower. The Jets may put themselves in the running by, like they did with players last year, offering the big bucks and passing the bill to fans but I don’t see it happening for two reasons.
- Tannenbaum won’t let Mangini go that easily. They’ve been working together for 13 years since their time at the Browns together.
- Cowher’s familiarity with the AFC North, the current enigma that is the Jets and the unpredictable and intense competition against Belichick and Parcells within the AFC East makes the Browns a more appetizing option for him right now.
BASSETT: A lot of readers asked this one. He’s a name that I hear a lot from fans.
Whether Cowher’s interested or not … it’s tough to say, but I just don’t see him coming to New York or even if he did come to New York, just how effective he’d be once he got here. A lot for me would hinge on his choices at coordinators. Cowher doesn’t strike me as a talent evaluator, or a sensational strategist either. If you thought Herm’s clock management was bad … wait til you get a load of Cowher … he’s even worse.
On the other hand, if you are comfortable with the Jets talent evaluators, and he can deliver some of his old staff who is up to the task to step in as coordinators, then he might not be a bad fit. The question is whether or not Cowher thinks he’s a talent evaluator. I would imagine he’s looking for a job where he can do double duty … as a GM and Coach. That would be a big mistake, as a lot of credit of the Steelers success has to lie in the hands of the Rooneys and Kevin Colbert in particular.
MONDAY MOURNING QB?
From Paul M.: If you knew in August what we know today about the QB performances and numbers, would you still acquire Brett Favre and release Chad Pennington? Basically do you feel like Pennington would have just as good as an option as Farve, a worse option than Favre, or a better option?
BASSETT: I’ll answer your question first, but allow me a long detour following it to buttress my answer.
I was wary of the Jets going for Favre, while Chris Carton was grandstanding in the Hempstead parking lot. From what I see now, yes, I absolutely do think that Pennington would have been just as good … had the Jets run the ball even more than they did this season. Chad would not have had to adjust to the system and would have done what his coaches told him, rather than need changes to the offense, that said, would the season have been as “fun?” A resounding no.
I do believe that the team could be worse off than they were when they traded for Favre for a number of reasons. I didn’t like it before it happened and after it did, I tried to make the best of it and did enjoy the ride even if I did get motion sickness. I admire the team’s guts to make the move, and I admire Favre’s panache, but his play has dropped off so precipitously in the last month of the season, I don’t see how he’s a better option than what the team had already. That said, having Chad in New York doesn’t make this team much different than any other Chad team. A win or two in the playoffs, then exit stage left. Favre was worth a shot, though he’s ending up being a shot (forgive me Plax) in the foot.
If you’ll remember back earlier in the summer when the question was Chad or Kellen? My answer was basically “let the best player win, I don’t think it matters.” My reasoning for thinking that was that with a boosted defense and offensive line, the team was bound to improve, so whoever started would take some knocks and likely finish just shy of the playoffs. That same logic followed with Favre, who would take time adjusting to the offense, and would play a brand of football Jets fans weren’t used to seeing.
The problem now is that the team will likely have traded a third round pick for Favre, Kellen Clemens is a year older and has no more on-field experience and the team is without their most steady QB coming into 2008, who would do what he’s told to do.
So what about next year? I can’t imagine Favre wants to go out like this. Maybe I’m overreacting, but I truly see Favre as a kidnapper who will hold this team hostage. There’s even an argument you could make that he’s gotten his victims looking like they’ve suffered from Stockholm Syndrome. He needs to decide what he’s going to do quickly after the season ends so the Front Office can react accordingly to the market. If he wants to dither around on his farm until July, then adios. He owes Jets fans at least that much for such a horrific beginning and end of the season.
CRYSTAL QB BALL
From Bill L: Who will be our QB in 2009?
BENT: The answer to this question is obvious…I don’t know.
If you’d asked who do I think will be our QB in ’09, then my answer would have been this:
Kellen Clemens 6/1 – Clemens’ body of work against second stringers trumps Ratty’s body of work against third stringers, for now. Just.
Brett Ratliff 8/1 – Destined to be the fan favorite, they need to make sure they sign him to a contract first.
Brett Favre 12/1 – If, by some miracle, the Jets end up making the playoffs on Sunday, Brett will be our QB on 1/4/09. That’s in ’09, so that counts, right?*
Matt Cassel 16/1 – If Favre leaves, they can potentially afford to join the “who wants to overpay for Matt Cassel?” sweepstakes. Yay?
[Enter retread here] 33/1 – Byron Leftwich, Alex Smith, Mike Vick, Joey Harrington, etc etc. For various reasons, these all engender a reaction of “ugh”.
Erik Ainge 66/1 – It might take three injuries in preseason to arrive there, but this is still theoretically possible.
Vinny Testerverde 100/1 – You can never count out Vinny.
Tony Korneiser’s little girl 1000/1 – He probably still thinks she has a better arm than Chad Pennington.
They might also draft a QB, but I’d be very surprised to see that guy start next year, whoever he may be.
* The whole Favre scenario played out pretty much as I feared. Boy, do I feel stupid for rooting for him this year? No, actually, so maybe it wasn’t to be, but I still had more fun that I would have if I’d have spent the whole season moaning and griping. Favre’s season was pretty mixed (and that’s being kind) but it will still better than Chad’s or Kellen’s was last year. Clearly both of those guys are capable of more, but can you rely on Pennington to stay healthy and Clemens not to be drowned in a sea of over-expectations and Aaron Schobels? Obviously not and that’s why they made the move – I guess it was worth a shot. If Favre retires, the Jets get a 7th round pick, but if he doesn’t, they should cut him anyway. A team with no cap room cannot afford to pay a QB whose ceiling may or may not be “mixed results”, as much fun as he’s been to watch over the years.
RIDE YOUR HORSE!
Danny V, former Jets/Titans fan: “How do you not run the AFC’s leading rusher. They move the opening drive and score 3. Then the do not run no more. 16 touches R U kidding me. Morris of Sea had 29 himself. Thats sticking it in the Butts BIG time. Tonite I just threw out all of my Jets stuff. I am done w/Man-NO-genius. Him and the whole staff gotta go no matter what they do next week. Chad will be haunting them for years to come. Beacue Favre is done and trhey have no one to step in.”
DROSEATWORK: I am reminded of a Navy kicker who after missing a field goal said, “No excuse sir.” There can be no excuses made for the absolute terrible play calling that has been the hallmark of Brian Schottenheimer. The man has been terrible all year and he needs to be fired.
Thomas Jones was the only part of the offense that was working this year. Yet he was under utilized and never allowed to get into a rhythm. You saw the Panthers and the Giants set up drives using the running game. We seem to be unable to figure out what works and thus you get games like yesterday.
I was willing to give Mangini the benefit of the doubt, but after his soft, gutless coaching performance yesterday they all must go.
GOING OFF SCRIPT
From Tommy in Staten Island: The … problem I have with this team is with our offensive play calling. Our first drive of the game always seems to exploit the weakness of the D but after that we seem to not have an identity and dont know whether we want to run or pass. In the secong quarter T.J had a big first down run that made it a nice manageable 2nd and 2. We then went on to throw 2 straight times wich resulted in penalties. It looks like this coaching staff has a plan and sticks with it no matter what. We could have run on them all day and instead were throwing the ball all over the field in bad weather.
BASSETT: I think you are right. If this year proved anything to me, it’s that Brian Schottenheimer is unable to adjust a gameplan. He’s a wizard at first drives, but once he has to go off script, he’s like Michael Scott in an improv class.
It’s as if Schott has spent 90% of his time that week detailing the first drive of the game, and then neglects everything that comes afterwards. He’s a PowerPoint sales presentation for a product that doesn’t exist. The maddening thing is that he’s proven he understands how to exploit another team, but it’s the other 50 minutes of the game that he just can’t seem to get his head around.
As far as Cassell, I don’t like him on a lesser team. I’m afraid that he might be a system guy … that is to say unless your system has a solid offensive line and two Pro Bowl WRs.
DEATH BY SHOTGUN?
From Phillip C.: Why does Schott insist on working out of the empty shotgun set on anything other than obvious passing downs, when we have a dominant running game that deserves respect? –
BASSETT: I have to think that part of that comes from the QB. Announcers have noted all season that Brett really likes running out of empty sets, something the Jets didn’t do much of before he got here. Bill Callahan wasn’t brought to New York to run the spread offense, this is something that the Jets have done to make Favre feel comfortable, and it works sometimes … it’s just not reliable consistently. I understand that teams are going to run less when they are losing, but in the Jets last three losses, Thomas Jones has run the ball 43 times, while in the last three wins, he’s run it 77 times. Abandon the run and the team abondons all hope.
126 Responses to eMailbag: From Everest to Death Valley, Part One
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TruJetFan says:
After 35 years of going to games and being one of those guys that remembers every play of every season, I can honestly say that this is the first time I feel like rooting against us this Sunday. (maybe this will change by Thursday, but I am not sure.) We’ve played 4 bad teams in a row and look terrible each week. We obviously will not make a dent in the playoffs should we be lucky enough to make it.
And we treated one of the true Jets heroes like crap. Pennington deserved better and now he deserves to hand it to us. Yes he had his troubles, injuries and such. But I never heard a player who wanted to be a New York Jet for life like Penny. 2002 & 2004 were GREAT years to be a Jets fan. He came withing two missed field goals of taking us to the AFC Championship game in ’04. And we dumped him on the side of the road like trash.
He should go to the playoffs at our expense. I see no other way for justice to occur.
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JustAGreenGuy says:
Does anyone think the fans level of cynicism and negativity effects the team? They shouldn’t let it effect them, but it must be tough to know your fan base expects you to lose and rabidly attacks you at every chance you get. It definatly got in Mangini’s head. You can see it in the way he has been coaching. Oh and if we were half as rabid towards opponents at our home field, as we were towards our players and coaches maybe it would be different.
Thats my X mas moment. Screw the media.
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Ed L says:
justagreenguy,
your a 100% right
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steviek says:
It can definitely impact play. Look at the Mets. Thats why alot of guys dont want to play in NY. But that said it only affects some guys negatively and when its going good theres a lot of juice.
I dont know how anyone can draw any conclusions about Clemens one way or another with that offensive line last year.
And Bassett is right on on the qb’s. Pennington was having a real problem staying healthy, and that was a big factor too. And lets not forget that Pennington is throwing less than 20 times a game and that defense didnt give up a td in 3 weeks until yesterday (against an admittedly soft sched).
The problem here is why does this team play up to better competition and always play down to lesser competition?
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jas says:
green-
So this is our fault?
I hope to God you’re kidding! -
Green-
Did you get a call about our game plans from Mangini,Sutton or Shotty?
I didn’t.
Its your fault then. Not ours. -
Green-
And why the Hell did you only give Leon one carry last week? -
kd bart says:
Hey!! We have a possible 2001 scenario on our hands this Sunday but this time the QBs are reversed?
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junior says:
I think mangini will get another year but they will fire sutton and schotty and if thats the case i migt be able to live with that i just cant stand that stupid look on mangini’s face no emotion..
JET FANS SHOULD BOYCOTT GOING TO GAMES UNTIL THIS SHIP IS RIGHT PSL’S ARE YOU KIDDING ME
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IF THE PATRIOTS WIN AND JAX WINS I SAY BENCH EVERYONE BUT FAVRE LET HIM TAKE ONE SNAP AND THEN BENCH HIM TOO SCREW THE PATRIOTS
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Make sure Favre does not return next year. It’s not his call to make. He looks old and uncomfortable in the bad weather right now. And he make bad decisions. (4th and 2, and he chucks a low percentage pass 30 yards downfield to a double covered Coles.)
Either fire both Coordinators or fire Mangini and find someone with experience. Mangini will coach again somewhere and will be better the second time around. But he needs to take a step back.
Give the reigns to Clemmens and maybe Ratliff will beat him out for the job. But never ever sign a player you can’t discipline because of his NFL History credentials. Favre is just not good enough anymore and I guess the Packers knew that coming in.
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notimpressed says:
To piggyback trujetfan, the jets do not deserve the playoffs. If by some chance they win the division, i do not want to go to the game and see them get smashed by the colts. I hope the pats win and are left out of the playoffs at 11-5 (great smack in the face to pats fans), the dolphins get the division, and i can look forward to the playoffs and not dreading watching the jets get dominated by a hot indy team.
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If the Jets win the Division, they can’t play the Colts in the first round. They’ll be the #3 seed and would play either the Pats or Ravens as the #6 seed.
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Razor Shines says:
Here is what I don’t understand.
When Pete Carroll was fired fr losing 6 straight, at least there was a crushing moment (fake spike) that killed the team. It was almost understandable — a great play from a HoF QB that demoralized the team.
WHAT KILLED THIS TEAM? They beat Tennessee and have no injuries. Did Kris Jenkins balky hip turn them into a 3-13 team? What? Even the coaching, which has been awful. It was adequate after 11 games. What demoralized this team??????
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COACHING
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Wrong year. 2002. not 2001. NE beat Miami 24-21 in OT , after trailing 24-13 with 5 minutes left, at 1:00PM. The Jets then beat GB 42-17 at 4 to win the division and knock both Miami and NE out of the playoff picture.
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mole57 says:
Junior,
If the Pats win and Jax wins, the Pats are automatically in the playoffs — as AFC East champs if Jets win, as a WC if Fins win. Furthermore, if that scenario takes place, a Jets win makes them the WC and they’d go to NE for the first round. -
21-10 not 24-13
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charleyjet says:
Cowher would demand total control over player personnel and draft. Is Tannenbaum ready to let someone take that away from him?
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I’ii get it right this time. The final was 27-24. Not 24-21 and it was 24-13 with 5 minutes left.
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The Favre Mistake could have been avoided. Here’s a look at his December QB rating over the years. A serious deterioration from a supposed great bad weather QB.
’94 – 100.2
’95 – 109.0
’96 – 104.3
’97 – 101.8
’98 – 97.2
’99 – 67.5
’00 – 76.3
’01 – 90.9
’02 – 74.9
’03 – 111.9
’04 – 78.6
’05 – 49.6
’06 – 62.2
’07 – 85.5
’08 – 56.9We must have been all kidding ourselves that this guy was anything but a shadow of his former self. One SuperBowl win in 16 years and we thought he would do it again in 2008? at the age of 39? And if we didn’t think he was capable, what was the point?
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[message deleted]
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Jas- We are rabid. If you went to work every day and knew roughly a million people thought you were horrible at it would it improve or weaken your performance and draw out every fear and cause you to secodn guess yourself? Oh wait your an NY blogger of course not. I hate it. I thought we loved this team. My best childhood memories are based around these losers.
The coaching has sucked, but how many stupid penalties did we have yesterday? Brett couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn and Ty Law couldn’t pick off a gift. If they believe in themselves as little as the majority of us believe in them are we suprised?
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Ed L — I am not a fat slob and I played sports when I was younger and got paid well doing it. I also went to the Arizona game in 1996 when the Jets were 1-14 and cheered my team. I don’t boycott, nor do I boo. I also do not generalize about other people like you just did.
However, all that said, Eric Mangini is in over his head. He may be good elsewhere one day, but you are wrong about this.
Also, your comparison to Bill Cowher taking a long time to win is a bit odd. In his first year as head coach he took a 7-9 team that hadn’t been to the playoffs in six years to 11-5, and first place in his division 5 of his first 6 years. He also went to the AFC Championship game in his 3rd year, and the Super Bowl the next. He won 64 games in his first 6 years as a coach — the most ever in a coach’s first 6 years. If a coach does that, you can be patient for the Super Bowl, because you know he can coach. Eric Mangini is not a case for patience. You have that wrong.
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Weren’t we 0-14 at the AZ game? That was a big win.
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vinnywasthebest says:
Ed L:
You suck. Im not even an athlete but im 5’10″and bench 225 when weighing 178. Im 30. I bleed green + white, i saw jets saints in 1996. I vomited from the cold but still would come again to that god awful stadium. So eat it. Dont bash fans on this site, we all express ourselves, no need to call us fat slobs when youre probably shoving cheez doodles into your facehole and playing world of warcraft.
FIRE MANGINI NOW>
Cowher took a while b/c he was young. Now hes got experience. Tannenbaum may not love giving up his powers, but he can come to an agreement with cowher. The bottom line is that MAngini is in over his head. Which isnt hard when your short and rotund.
FIRE MANGINI NOW.
He ALLOWS the papers and talk shows to get in his head. He gets too tight and cant veto any of the awful conservative play calls by him impotent coordinators. He ALLOWS the team to become COMPLACENT after winning a big game. He ALLOWS the play calling to become PREDICTABLE. Stck the box against our run plays and double cover the deep route. Beat the Jets with your pee wee team.
FIRE MANGINI NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The Ed(itor) says:
For any of you who still drink the Mangini cool aid, the JETS will NOT win on Sunday. They are done, finished by an incompetent coaching staff. Two, if by some miracle they do win, and it would have to be a Buffalo-like miracle, the Ravens and the Pats are not losing. So we can watch the Giants with much better coaching, more desire but less talent go further in the playoffs than the JETS.
Thankfully the Yankees and baseball hot stove league are up and running otherwise it would be very hard to put the JETS miserable performances these past 4 weeks out of your mind. Again I repeat:
DUMP MANGINI!!! HIRE COWHER!!! -
Canadian Bacon says:
I don’t understand why everyone is talking about Cowher, the chances of him coming to the Jets are as slim as Nicole Richie on crack. Just imagine someone offering you only a little more then you’re currently getting paid and for that little more money I am going to expect you to work 24/7. Right now he makes huge money at CBS flying to NY on Saturday going to Scores sat night with Shannon and Dan waking up talking for a few hours and get home Sunday night. He would be crazy to volutarily get off the grazy train
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Ben says:
its either cowher or the ryan brothers. Why cant this organization see that the last time we had super bowl hopes was with a great coach (Parcells).
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JesusRevis says:
Its times like this I wish Jerry Jones was our owner. He would fire Mangini, fire sutton, sign bill cowher and whichever big name d-coordinator was available, trade for chad johnson, sign a quarterback, and go out and try and win the super bowl next year. It sounds crazy, but I would love rooting for a team like that.
The jets make me miserable and it is unacceptable that a team with 7 pro bowlers, and quite possibly one of the most talented rosters in the NFL, is going to be beat out in the division by the patriots, minus tom brady, and a team coming off an 1-15 season. How is that possible? We have stud players all over the field. Thomas Jones, Leon Washington, Dustin Keller, Laverneous Coles, Jerricho Cotchery – if you cant find ways to win with those offensive players than you are clearly doing something wrong. If your defense cant generate pressure with guys like Shaun Ellis, Kris Jenkins, David Harris, Calvin Pace, Darrelle Revis, Kerry Rhodes, and A #6 overall pick, than you are doing something wrong. Coaching changes need to be made without question. I will be fine with Mangini keeping his job only if both coordinators are fired, especially Sutton, cuz who the hell is bob sutton? this guy has never been successful on any level. get this guy out of here.
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J Roc says:
I just want Mangini to throw a clipboard, headphone, or anything. He stood all barred out (like he just took a xanax) on he sidelines for the last three years with out any emotion. Get the team fired up man! Maybe if showed some emotion we wouldn’t be 0-4 against the leagues bottom feeders.
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I think Sutton coached army. Whatever. He sux. Last year he gave a sliver of hope by having the D play well the last 8 weeks.
I think for us, as fans, it would be unacceptable to swallow manginis B.S. for another year. We are on the cusp. Were built for NOW. This team will get dismantled again in 2010. Can we TRY to win a championship by then? Can we make a play for Cowher? He would love to coach a team with health and talent and depth. Why NOT us? Why does Jerry Jones always go out and get what he wants? Dont we also pay in dollars? why are we paying 140 million dollars but getting 140 million in pesos- type of performance?
BECAUSE OF OUR AWFUL COACHING.
FIRE MANGINI NOW!!!!!!!!!!
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keep Mangini and get a DC that has some emotion, a guy that will grab you by the facemask and pump you up. As for Shotty I really don’t know, from one series to the next he can change your opinion of him
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SackDance99 says:
I still support the Favre deal and I don’t think that Chad would’ve been better and, in fact, could’ve been worse in the Jets’ offense. Miami’s OC took a look at Chad’s game, saw his liabilities and put in a system that accentuates the positives and minimizes the negatives. Unlike with the Jets, where Chad’s passes were overwhelmingly to the WRs, the Fins have Chad pass to his TEs and RBs far more than he ever did with the Jets. This scheme has allowed Chad to hit more passes between the hashmarks and throw less to the sidelines…his weakness.
Now, Schotty could have installed such an offense for Chad, but he never did. So, which QB would’ve gotten more out of the offense that Favre has run? I still think Favre would have. Yesterday, Favre didn’t have his deep ball working, but (as Tasker noted repeatedly) the WRs should have run button hooks and comebacks…every one of those passes Favre nailed. The deep passes in stride, Favre did not make (or LC did not catch). Plus, TJ should have gotten more carries and Leon more touches. So, too many bad pass plays were called and not enough runs. I think the blame goes to the coaches because, again, Schott didn’t force the Seahawks defense to stop the Jets…good teams make the opposing team stop their successful plays and, once you establish a successful play, you can work off of it. Just a poorly conceived offensive game plan and, as we have seen all season, an appalling inability to make in-game adjustments.
I’m all for Cowher. I don’t know if he wants the Jets job and I’d like to retain Tannenbaum, but I’m tired of the Jets having better talent than their record.
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TimNC says:
I don’t know TruJetFan, maybe it was the 4155 yards and 28 TD’s he threw for the year before at the young age of 38? Just a hunch.
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Listen all you favre haters bottom line is chad has a weak arm and favre’s arm is still stronger a 39 i’ll still take favre today over chad this team has no leadership put it this way everybody on this team just does there job but nobody goes the extra step
the coaching staff is weak oc and dc must go but if schotty goes who takes his place and now whoever is the qb of the future whether he is on the team right now or not has to learn a new system sutton is terrible and he has to go do you think if singletary was coaching this team there would be such complacency -
Murry Angelino says:
Enough! This Jets organization will never ever succeed and give we loyal fans a winner
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I have come to the conclusion that i am not going to spend another dime on tickets apparel and or other related jet items until woody does something about this team.
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David says:
“One SuperBowl win in 16 years and we thought he would do it again in 2008?”
Amen TrueJetFan – Favre is a legend, which is defined in the dictionary as “a nonhistorical or unverifiable story handed down by tradition from earlier times and popularly accepted as historical.”
He won one Superbowl thanks to return man Desmond Howard, and that was that. Couldn’t beat the Broncos, couldn’t ever beat the Cowboys in the playoffs. But he’s done a great marketing job and the media LOVE him. At least he’ll only cost a 4th round pick.
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Joe B. says:
3rd round pick.
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Igs says:
I’d love to see Cowher come in. As long as I can remember n my years of watching football, I’ve respected how hard and disciplined the Steelers have played. He left a legacy in Pitt that still reverberates in the current regime. That’s a powerful coach.
Cowher understands basics. Mangini and Schottenheimer simply don’t:
Imagine if I said you were going to coach a team with a powerful running game, against a team with a so/so defensive line, i a contest that would take place in the cold and heavy, heavy snow. Wouldn’t the word “RUN” pop inot your head? Even if you had the most basic knowledge about football? Wouldn’t you just run the ball all day long till that defensive line couldn’t handle it anymore. I mean, you can’t ignore 60+ years of football knowledge.
This has been a problem all year, even when the Jets run. i mean come on… Throing the ball on 3rd and 1? Stupid.
These guys have got to go!!!
We want Cowher!!! We want Cowher!!! We want Cowher!!!
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3rd rounder? Hmmm. That’s a bit of a higher cost.
I’ll go out on a limb here, but I think the next Jets coach will be Steve Spagnulo (Giants D Coordinator). Just a hunch.
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JoeP says:
Jets ownership does not give a damn about the eal fans. because they will continue to sell out the stadium no matter what they put on the field. The PSL’s will go to the suits and the true Jet fans who can’t move to the upper level will be left out in the cold (which is what Woody wants). The suits will sit in the new overpriced bars and restaurants and make a ton of money for ownership. Jets experience will be a thing of the past—no more fans that bleed green and have a hell of a time tail gateing because that does not make any money for ownership.
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cowher isnt coming get it out of your heads he is going to want full control and mike t isnt going anywhere
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JoeP, you make a good point. The proof is in the pudding – the drafting, the coaching, the front office moves, the fan treatment with the psls and new stadium, everything…
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David -
I hope not. It was bad enough we took a Belichick disciple and basically admitted that we’re inferior to the Patriots. Hiring Spagnuolo would announce that we’re inferior to the Giants. Not just this year, but as a franchise.
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klecko71 says:
Joe B….hiring spagnuolo would be hiring a talented coordinator who hopefully would make a great coach.
if every team in the nfl thought the way you do, and didnt hire another teams coach b/c they think it proves an inferiority complex….then alot of teams would have serious mental problems.
that being said….mangini isnt going anywhere for at least one more year. and spags might get a job this offseason.
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newsflash: we are inferior. i’m breaking out the old bag.
but we don’t need another person that’s learning how to be a head coach.
I think every great coach has to fail miserably once and that’s why I didn’t want Mangini in the first place. We need someone with the reputation and the history of a Cowher or a Parcells to help whip this organization into shape. Anything else is just the SAME OL’ JETS!!!
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If thats the case then your saying the giants are inferior to the eagles and the jags with there coaching moves? That is not a smart statement
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Ideally i want cowher also but realistically IF mangina gets fired then we are going to end up with Russ Grimm
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klecko71 -
You don’t think ego is a factor in the NFL? Front offices want to be credited for their own success, and I don’t think Woody would want to hire a Giants hand-me-down, since it would enforce the whole “little brother franchise” perception of the Jets.
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No because the giants have been successful and have managed to regularly return to the playoffs regulary and periodially win a superbowl. The organization knows what it’s doing.
Also notice that the Giants tend to hire people that have already been head coaches to run their teams. And it usually works right.
Mangini was just a bad hire. Him and Schott have no respect for the fundamentals of football. Coupled with his inexperience, that makes for a very bad coach.
As for Grimm – another coordinator, inexperienced at head coaching.
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I think the way the jets franchise is run supports the whole “little rother franchise” notion about the jets.
To be honest I’m a fan of both teams. And when I think about playoffs, great offensive picks, successful personal, good coaching decisions, I just dont imagine the jets there. Am I wrong?
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My problem with Mangini and staff is that they regressed as a unit. In 2006, I thought Mangini was “Mangenius.” The Jets had winning game plans for all but a couple of games that season (like against Jax). The Jets just didn’t have enough talent. It was a promising start. Last season was just terrible. Too many injuries, terrible OL play (esp. at LG and RT) and awful QB play (injured Chad and a terrible KC). But, the win against Pittsburgh showed a flash of the old “Mangenius.” Just a great game plan to beat a clearly superior opponent.
But, this season, there was no innovative game plans, but a lot of questionable decisions, stupid gadget plays and a puzzling (and destructive) failure to run consistently against poor run defenses. I think the coaching staff was directly responsible for 3 losses (Pats, Raiders and 49ers). With his best team and superior talent, Mangini and staff laid an egg.
IMO, Mangini should be terminated. He’s like Roger Neilson when he coached the Rangers. A good guy, but overmatched when finally given the players to contend for a Stanley Cup. The Jets need a Mike Keenan, a guy to take them to the next level. I just don’t think Mangini can do that. He did not get the most out of the talent given him. And, there’s no reason to believe that another year of on-the-job training will do anything other than squander a year in the NFL lives of Jenkins and Faneca. Also, I really don’t trust his staff to develop a QB, whether it’s my favorite, Ratliff, or KC.
IMO, Cowher is a perfect fit, but I like Tannenbaum and nobody knows what control Cowher wants. I disagree with the notion that Cowher wouldn’t seriously consider the Jets job. Two of Cowher’s daughters went to Princeton and I’m guessing the youngest wants to follow in her sisters’ footsteps. The oldest just graduated, but the middle girl is still there. As an aside, Princeton has a beautiful campus, along with being a superb university, and the Cowhers must be very proud of their daughters…I wouldn’t discount the psychic effect that has on parents. So, Cowher has seen enough of NJ to be comfortable there and as an analyst for CBS, he has seen lots of the AFC. He would salivate at the talent on the Jets 3-4 as well as the makings of a great power running team. If the choice is between Cleveland and the Jets, it’s a no-brainer.
There is also the PSL factor. Woody went for the shock and awe of Favre, but saw his Ferrari wrecked by a kid. Signing Cowher would have the same PSL effect. All of the folks ready to rip up their season tix will do a quick about face with “the Chin” here.
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Electric Ham says:
Im watching the mangini press conference and it feels like a remix of all his old press conferences he is just spitting out phrases and doesnt even look like he knows what hes talking about, looks like he knows hes done around here.
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Jim says:
All you Favre haters, yeah I’m talking about the fairies that have a picture of Pennington on their night stand, need to realize that Favre is 39 years old, and he’s not as mobile.
If Favre had an offensive line, and wide receivers that could catch the damn ball, this season would have been much much different. Jericho CANT-CATCH-ERY, and Coles are pathetic.
And I haven’t even started on the defense yet………
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As for Russ Grimm that is what you can tell woody wants he spends money but seems like he doesnt want to spend on a coach i dont want a statue coach i’ll take a guy like singletary as a coach anytime because you know that he is passionate
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Funny listening to some of you wanting Favre to retire and kick him out of town.
I can’t believe he even agreed to come out and play for this pathetic team. I’m not sure what the hell he was thinking playing for the Jets, he should have gone to the Tampa Bay Bucs, with a decent team, and a good defense. Unfortunatley he got dealt to the pathetic, unorganized, horribly coached New York J-E-T-S SUCK SUCK SUCK
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Hangar says:
Jim
At first I wanted to call you a— a hole but after thinking about it you are correct, He should have gone to Tampa . As the saying goes “take the money and run”. Lets see what he is made of this Sunday..Farve the competitor or Farve “I can care less”. -
Favre “I can care less”?
You must be talking about a different Favre, surely you’re not talking about Brett Favre.
Do you think Brett, at 39, uprooted his entire family to go to NYC and not care? The guy is there to win, but he has no one around him that can make a play except for Leon. And the blame falls there on the coaches. The entire staff is as pathetic as I’ve seen in the NFL.
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“take the money and run”
If you think Favre is in it for the money, you are seriously misunderstanding the situation, and you really don’t know very much about Favre.
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Yeah, Leon’s the only guy on the team besides Favre who can play. Nevermind those other five Pro Bowlers and the AFC’s leading rusher.
And LMAO at making fun of “fairies with pictures of Pennington on their nighstands” WHEN YOU’RE THE ONE WHO’S NOT A JET FAN AND IS ON THIS SITE SOLELY TO DEFEND THE HONOR OF BRETT FAVRE. It doesn’t get much “fairier” than that.
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I’ll add Thomas Jones to the list of play makers.
But the other pro bowlers are not offensive play makers.
The wide receivers are pathetic.
Favre got screwed by the jets, not the other way around.
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Jim..look at this guy on the sideline after he makes a throw cross field short and into dbl coverage…
Not saying I agree with the coaching here but he did not come in here and be the leader he was paid to be.
I’m also not saying we would be better with Chad but I’d rather not make the play-off with Chad than Brett.. -
jim i guess your team doesnt have a blog you feel the need to come on this one and thats ok last i checked no wide receivers on the jets made the pro bowl and how come you havent told us who you root for real quick to criticize but not man enough to tell us who you root for
YEH THATS A REAL FAN -
I remember looking at him on the sidelines after he made a throw cross field short and into dbl coverage at Green Bay last year and he had one of the best seasons of his career.
One difference, he’s on the Jets.
Look what Rodgers is doing with the same exact team, they’ll be watching the playoffs on their big screens with the jets.
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Junior, I’m rooting for the Jets, but they do suck in a bad way.
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So let me get this straight your a jet fan but badmouth the people that come on here for being passionate about there team.
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Fonz says:
I truly think that the Jets are going to release Coles and FARVE isn’t coming back. Coles might be picked up by the Dolphins if he is cut because Chad may want him. FINALLY THE DEADLY DISEASE IS GONE AND THE INFECTIOUS PAIN IN THE BUTT IS GONE TOO!!!!
YES MANGINI WINS!!!!
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the jets don’t draft playmakers on offense. Neon Leon is the only guy in how many years that they passed, trying to change a successful 4-3 into a 3-4 wasting draft picks to feed mangini’s ego. Get a damn wide receiver and a stud running back. Jones is NOT a stud, no matter how well he does.
And can we please draft a wide receiver that’s over 6’0”? Come on. Who could be successful with this offense?
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I think coles was very good then became a prima dona who needs to go anyway every week he makes me more and more sick with his tantrums with the refs
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Jim
You said the right words…LAST YEAR. This is not last year…by the way, I pull for the guy every week. I will be pulling for him this week but he has sucked the last few weeks. Even with the piss poor play calling, he missed receivers way too many times. -
junior, I’ll badmouth the Pennington worshippers any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
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Doug from Long Valley says:
Like many of the 50+ guys on this site I’ve followed this team my entire life and today is a very dark day in light of where we were several weeks ago with an 8-3 record. Home field, bye week, all seemed possible, and now I’m hoping for golf gear under the tree and not another Jet jacket. This is where I think we stand.
Head coach; No change. Eric has one maybe two more years based on his relationship to Tanny. Besides at 8-3 we weren’t demanding a change. Eric has proved he can learn and change year to year. With the right coordinators maybe he can start to make adjustments during the game which is his greatest detraction to date. Cowher would be great for this team, but as many have said he wants total control, its not going to happen.
Defense; Sutton is gone, we need someone who can coach the 3-4 get pressure on the QB on a regular basis. There are a million posts on this site pointing to the fact we make every 2nd string QB face look like Johnny U. As I’ve said many times the answer is Romeo or someone like him.
Offense; Hopefully Shotty is gone, and Bill Callahan takes over calling the offense which is what we suspected when he was hired. As we’ve known for years (but had to many other needs to address) we need a real #1 receiver who is Big and can get Separation, oh yeah and catch the ball in a big spot. I am praying #4 retires for good and that we let our three QB’s fight it out. Otherwise we wasted a lot of roster spots on QB this year for nothing. We’ll look at FA but I like growing your own. One of my knocks on Favre is that he won’t run the ball and put his 40 year old body in harms way. How many 3rd down conversions does NE have because their guy can tuck it an run for 4 yards and keep the chains moving.
The immediate future. Beat Miami, end the season 5-1 in the division, learn from your mistakes.
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Bottom line is we will see what happens sunday with the wind swirling we will see if chads arm is the better of the 2
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I lke the idea of Crennel as DC and Callahan at O.C. Two guys with experience and respect for the fundamentals of football. Good guys.
But with mangeniuse out of the picture. Eve when he was winning I was always frustrated by him and Schott and Sutton’s playcalling.
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Bottom line is we will see what happens sunday with the wind swirling we will see if Brett’s receivers decide to go to the ball at CATCH it instead of waiting for the ball to come to them.
Chad can’t play in cold weather unless he’s playing the Chiefs.
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sutton is a bum
Mangina tried to replace him last season but R. Ryan wasnt available he held on to his job by default bring in crennell please and as for schotty get him out and let callahan run it he couldnt do any worse -
So do the Jets go offense or defense in the 2009 draft?
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draft a DC and OC
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even though its too early to talk draft i want one of 3 guys
terrence cody ng of bama
michael crabtree wr if tt
or rey mauluaga lb usc
runer up paul kushing lb usc -
Gang Green says:
If I remember correctly most Jets fans were looking at a 9-7 or 10-6 win season for the Jets this year…We got that… As to the demise of the Jets we have been horrible in the 3-4 scheme defensively since Magini has adopted it.Run the 4-3 we have the players for it and will get more pressure on the opposing quarter backs.Mangini is a shadow of Bella-cheat and does not have the assistent coaches to scheme up good plays consistently on offense or defense…period.We trapped ourselves with the signing of Brett Favre and will pay the next few seasons until we finally find a franchise quarter back.Can anyone tell me of one franchise quarter back besides Chad Pennigton that the Jets have signed??? I have been a Jet fan for 26 years and quarter back has always been our weakness.Magini gets fired MIKE T. stays as he has made all the right moves EXCEPT FARVE….Can we please draft a Quarter back of the future and stick with a system for m0re than 3 years.We trade our best team captains away every few years but expect this team to play with confidence and dominate opposing teams.My Christmas list this year; A FRANCHISE QUARTER BACK,A WHOLE NEW GROUP OF HARD NOSE COACHES,AT LEAST ONE DOMINATE EXPERIENCED WIDE RECEIVER,AND THAT GHOLSTON PLAYS DEFENSIVE END IN THE 4-3 SCHEME NEXT YEAR….SANTA R U LISTENING????
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I’m thinking:
1. McCoy
2. Tebow
3. Heyward-Bey
4. MorenoLet’s get an offensive star in there, a playmaker, for once.
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Gang Green
Thank you… you hit it
lgs…living in Tx, I like McCoy, gutsy kid but not sure he is going to NFL this year. -
Yea, he probably wont come out but I do love to watch McCoy. He’s a gamer.
He shouldn’t take the opportunity to come out. Remember Jason White?
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LGS not sure Tebow would fit the Jets offensive scheme as to he does best as an option quarter back.Tebow does make great reads though through his progressions and could possibly adapt in the NFL( all be it Micheal VIck and Donovan McNabb) I think as for the next year Crabtree would be a great addition to the jets and a top Corner from the draft are a must for the Jets…and as to not over post the obvious in this current coaching staff i doubt any draftee could have a breakout session for the Jets next year but trying to stay positive and hope Mike T pulls out the coaching staff gil-o-teen Drop the dead weight and Magini isn’t that skinny LMAO
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JD says:
Mike Vick in ’09
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pkpiazza says:
this is wat the jets needs
QB: Favre is gonna retire, but i’m conent with Ratcliff and KC battling it out since there arent any FA options or in the draft unless we trade up
WR: maybe Clowney is the answer maybe not, i’d like them to go after who’s ur momma in FA or one in the draft, maybe Harvin from florida
LB: since barton might not be back we need another ILB unless we switch to a
4-3 which is doubtful, the LB out of USC looks pretty good and is suppose to be available in the 20′s which is when we will probaly pick.
CB: we have Revis, but we need someone to start on the other side, i’d like Nnamdi Asomugha who will be a FA, it’ll cost $ but we need it badly
S: we have rhodes, who had a down yr, lets hope he turns in around next yr, Elam sucks in coverge but cant cover ****, Dawkins is a FA if the jets want him or they should adress this in the draftoverall i think they will let KC and ratcliff battle it out, sign a CB, draft a WR or SS or a LB in the first 3 rds, idk wat they will do about there coaching, hopefully they will clean house, but i want T to stay he did a great job gettin allt eh players, it’s not his fault Magina cant coach, dos any1 kno the available head coaches and OC and DC tht will be available?
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Marvin Lewis should be out of Cincy,Rome Crennel should get fired out of CLeveland,Herm Edwards should be gone in KC,Matt Millen should definitley be fired in Detriot,TOm Cable should be fired in Oakland,Mike Singletary should be availible if SF does keep him,and i’m hoping that Mike T puts a big paycheck in Bill Cowler’s pocket and he hires him here in New York.If Mike T. hires Cowler I’m all for sticking with the 3-4 scheme in New York as to Bill knows how to get the most out of his players in that scheme
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I like Mike T. He could step his game up a little. He could’ve went after mcFadden more agressively.
I would love Singletery, but a DC with some experience would be better, like Crennel.
I’d love a 1st round WR, but not a little one like Harvin. A crabtree or a Heyward-Bey.
a team only needs 1 shut down corner. We have Revis. i’m not in favor of drafting a second 1. We don’t need it and we can’t afford it.
There’s a reason that no one knows Ratliff’s name.
Tebow is all spirit… like a young Favre. He would be good for the team, as long as the team got him a nice big target to clean p some mistakes.
Clowney makes a great second reciever next to a big guy.
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And Rashad Jenings – The jets don’t seem to know how to harvest deep RB classes. They passed on a lot of good rookie FA prospects to sign Woodhead.
Woodhead? Coe on now… Woodhead?
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Tebow? To have a backup FB? Why not Mike Vick to compete for the qb job. He’s gonna be hungry to play football. Gruden and Jerry Jones would take him for a backup.
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Dont be suprised if the Jets dont keep woodward that you dont see him returning kick offs/punts for another franchise.He could also make a great 3rd down back,could be awesome in the wild cat formations,or actually be put into a slot receiver position.What did woodward have like 8,000 all purpose yards in college says alot about his speed and abilities but his size would be a factor…..and his durability….
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JD… Woody would never allow Mike T to sign Micheal Vick to the Jets squad.Will all the bad PR that comes with Vick and them trying to sell PSL’s i think that would be a no go…..If we had Jerry Jones maybe but not under this ownership could i even fathom Vick ever becoming a JET Just my opion though……..
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Anyone that talks like that about Tebow obviously hasn’t watched the Gators play this year? Not the most accurate guy, but he can read and he can throw pretty well. But he’s got spark in his game. He’s special. McCoy too, but in a different way.
I’m not hating on Woodhead. he was good in college, low division. But, there were better rookie FA RBs out there. That’s all I’m sayng.
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Vick would be a veeran signee if they signed him. The Jets would still need to sign a futuer QB.
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LGS you know as well as i do that Magini like to sign blue collar hard working FA rookies.Magini wants smart coachable players and with the stats and good references from his coaches woodward was a steal.We haven’t seen him in a game yet to state that there were better rookie FA out there so I was all for Woodward being a JET but the injuury bug got him before he had his chance to strut his stuff.Hopefully next session we are all electrified by his abilities but that will remain to be seen and who do u think was the better free agent rookies at that time for that price?????
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and we forget about great running backs that cameout of the draft in the later rounds being emitt smith,curtis martin,barry sanders and the lists goes on and on I think Woodward is a diamond in the ruff but we will have to see for ourselves on that one
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Oh that’s not fair Gang Green. The names don’t come back to me right away. But I remember reviewing the list in the weeks after the draft and just being shocked on some of the RBs and other players they passed on to sign Woodhead. I did like Culrick though.
They could’ve picked up Adibi too, got rid of knuckle barton or fatboy bowens.
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Barry was the 3rd pick in 89. Martin was a 3rd rounder.
I’m all for finding that diamond in the ruff. But I’m not for looking past good talent to save Woody’s bucks.
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my bad lgs i thought Sanders came out in the later rounds and that Martin was like a late 4th round pick to new engalnd i could be wrong its getting late lol…..
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Dude didn’t you just say you root for two teams? Stop saying “we” and “us”.
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Max says:
I have been a Jet’s fan long enough to see this “free fall” coming. However, let’s look in retrospect as to see how the Jet’s came to be such a 2008 disappointment…First, Mangini was hired without any head coaching experience on the presumption that since he was a Belichek disciple he would turn out to be a great coach. Well, the NFL is full of ex-coaches who came from great winning teams but didn’t pan out. Mangini fall is that category. Two major attributes that Mangini does not possess: 1. Fire and emotion in a game that begs for it (few are successful at it without i.e. Tom Landry, Belichek) and more importantly, 2. He never makes his game plan to fit around the talent that he has but rather for him the talent must fit his game plan. A case in point, the resurgence of Chad Pennington in Miami. The game plan in Miami is for Chad to make short accurate passes to his tight ends and running backs while taking long throws (his weakness) only once in awhile to his receivers. Woala, Miami wins their division. Mangini does not game plan in that manner. For example, in defense the Jets play the 3-4 defense come hell or high water regardless of the talent you had (ie. 2007) or have. Mangini has been able to “surprise” some teams but once the oppositions makes the necessary adjustments he is unable to recover and make counter moves. The acquistion of Brett Favre was by and large a good move both business wise and football wise. Business wise it sold the franchise to the media and rejuvenated interest to Jet fans. Football wise it acquire a strong armed quaterback which is something Mangini wanted in his scheme. Now, for all those who are now coming out of the woodword and saying that we would have been better with Chad, Brett sucks he is old, etc., you were happily jumping in the band wagon in August when the Jets signed Brett. If not, Iam sure after the Jets defeated the Titans you were all buckled up in that wagon. Now that the wheels of that wagon have come off everyone is dumping on Brett. However, Brett does not put together a game plan or call his own plays ultimately that responsibility falls on the coach. Most of you (myself included) would like to see Mangini go. Since the Dolphins will win on Sunday I think Woody would be between a rock and a hard place. I know Jet fans will be asking for blood but I don’t think Woody will fire Mangini just yet. However, having said that, Woody has to think of the 2009-10 football season in which the Jets need to fill a new stadium. Hmmmm….what to do? what to do? Bill Cowher as the new Jets coach Hmmmm….that can fill many seats, don’t you think?
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JL says:
A win this Sunday is all that matters. Even if the Ravens and Pats win. If we win on Sunday, it won’t be “Same old Jets” even if we don’t make it to the playoffs.
This time of year I always ask myself, “what was the win-loss record I expected at the beginning of the year?” Even after the Farve trade I was thinking 10-6, maybe 11-5.
The thing is, the schedule never plays out the way we imagine. That’s why we watch.
Prediction: 10-6, miss playoffs, Mangini stays, Sutton goes, maybe Shotty, too- Bill Callahan, OC? Maybe we’ll finally get Ryan or Romeo as our DC. Farve finally retires, The Kellen Clemens era finally begins. I think he’ll do alright.
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yes, I root for both NY teams. And yes I’m just as frustrated as any other Jets fan. I’ve watched and rooted for the Jets almost as long as I’ve lived in New York. And I was born in New York.
Joe B., don’t direct your cave man frustration at me. I got the same heart palpatations as you watching them try to throw the ball around on a snowy day sunday.
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So Doug From Long Valley, I’m wondering why Mangini gets a free pass from you and many others? When they go 8-3, Mangini gets credit – but when they face the possibility of collapsing and missing the playoffs, that somehow escapes Mangini and is put squarely on the shoulders of the OC and DC?
Makes absolutely no sense and the thought process there is backed by zero logic. If Mangini gets credit for Jets successes, it holds true that he also gets the finger pointed at him for the failures.
All three need to go in my mind. They can take Favre and Coles with them, the Jets can fall back into underdog status, where they seem to fare better, and maybe there can be some hope for a decent season or two in the near future.
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Bent says: Two things:
Any calls for Coles to be cut or traded must bear in mind that he is going to count $6m against the cap next year whatever happens. If you still think that he’s such a cancer that they should do it, then fair enough, but you can’t then call for them to spend money to replace him because the money isn’t going to be there unless the Jets want to invest (effectively) $12m in a player of equivalent status.
And the idea that the Jets should switch to a 4-3 because they have the personnel to run it is just wrong. With Barton a free agent, they will have zero 4-3 linebackers. Who are your backers – Harris, Bowens and Spencer? And you thought they had problems in coverage this year! Also Bryan Thomas has proven to be a lousy 4-3 end, one of the most expensive positions to upgrade.
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You guys want Favre gone, and yet some of you are hoping to get Michael “can’t throw a pass, about to get out of the slammer” Vick? What are you guys smacked? The drugs seem to be having long term consequences on your ability to think.
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But seriously it wouldn’t surprise me if the jets got Vick.
Going from the most popular QB to the least popular QB. 3 years after Vick the Jets will have the reputation of the Oakland Raiders.
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Dudes;
Have you gone crazy? Vick? no way.
Keeping farve is the best option other than Cassel. Period. Look at Cassels performance. As for Farve, I have a tough time figuring if ANYONE can win with the INCONSISTENCY on offense that we have. Schottenheimer sux.Sutton Sux.
The blame falls SQUARELY on Mangini. He could veto ANY PLAY. rushing the qb with 3 and 4 man rushes SHOULD BE VETOED. WE GET NO PRESSURE. WITH SHAUN ELLIS CALVIN PACE AND BRIAN THOMAS. NO PRESSURE!!!!!!!!!!
FIRE MANGINI BEFORE THE FINS GAME.
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lgs-
Was that Tebow comment directed at me – I live in Florida. I see plenty of Tebow.
Gang Green- Woody might not sign off on Vick because of character issues but I don’t think Goodell is going to suspend him in addition to his jailing. He’s paying his debt to society and I think everyone knows it. Speaking of Bill Cowher, he has no doubts that Vick will return to the NFL, and even suggested Dallas might be a natural landing spot on the CBS Pregame Show. If he’s the new Jet HC, maybe Vick’ll get a chance in New York even as a qb/wr for wildcat formations.
Jim- Vick is washing pots and pans for 12 cents an hour. Disgraced and bankrupt, he’s gonna be hungry to be the playmaker he once was. How many times did Favre throw into coverage or take a sack this year because of his lack of escapability in the pocket. I don’t see why Vick couldn’t pick up this dink-and-dunk pass offense – he, clowney and washington in the same set would pose a lot of matchup problems for defenses. -
vinnywasthebest,
Are you going to throw money at Cassel after one year? Ask Cleveland how that type of thinking is working out with Derek Anderson.
Mike Vick will cost nothing to get.
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JD, my Tebow comment was in response to your comment. It’s belittling to refer to Tebow as just a backup FB. The guy can flat out play. He’s got lots of heart and athletic ability. He just needs time to get the QB game down.
Are you telling me from the way Florida tore up the league this year, beat the tar out of Auburn and Alabama and just about everyone else, that Tebow is just a backup FB. Come on now JD?
Vick can still be something. I’m not hating on Vick. I think he would be a stopgap though. The Jets need a good QB coach and a young guy with a good arm to bring up in the system. Tebow’s perfect for that.
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lgs-
I hear your points. It’s not just me who thinks pro qbs don’t come out of UF:
“A quick examination of draft experts isn’t positive. ESPN.com’s Todd McShay, the director of college football scouting for Scouts Inc., doesn’t list Tebow among his top underclassmen prospects. Bradford, Georgia’s Matt Stafford, USC’s Mark Sanchez, Ball State’s Nate Davis and Kansas State’s Josh Freeman are McShay’s top five. “If Tebow will get drafted as a quarterback, I wouldn’t take him in the first two rounds,” McShay said in a recent interview on ESPN radio. “While he has the size and the arm strength, he’s an erratic passer at times. His delivery, if you watch him, it takes three days for him to get the ball out. Defensive backs in the NFL will eat him alive for it.
“He may be one of the top five players ever to play college football, but he is not a great pro prospect at the quarterback position.” Draft guru Mel Kiper, Jr., doesn’t list Tebow among his top five underclassmen quarterbacks….There’s talk of Tebow changing positions, playing as an H-back, tight end or fullback.” -
You’re right JD. Which, like I and someone else said at first, Tebow will probably not come out. Tebow didn’t start out throwing and I think he just needs more time to perfect those things.
For all that I can say I’ve seen Tebow make plenty of excellent pro-style throws and I’ll say again that his spirit and the way his spirit affects a team is very Favre-like and invaluble in a QB. Draft analyzers dont look at stuff like that. And they don’t really look at potential.
I’d take him in the 2nd if he came out, and possibly a low 1. I’d take McCoy over him.
At any rate, the bottom line is that the Jets need to realize that it’s not a sin to have first round talent on the offensive side of the ball.
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Forget tebow, vick, crabtree etc… Draft playmakers on defense. thats how the jets will win a championship. With defense
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yes because that’s how they’ve been winning championships all these years with all their defensive 1st rounders right?
Ultimately, it’s the coaching that’s been killing them. But it’s been a long time since we’ve seen a great offensive 1st round pick – not since Keshawn.
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Heres an interesting coaching choice:
Bring in Brian Billick and reunite him with marvin lewis
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CRIMSON-SE7EN says:
As far as the 2009 draft T.Tebow is projected as an H-back in the NFL says Mel Kiper,and projects him in the 2nd to 3rd round. As for Crabtree he is a lock to be taken in the top 5 so forget that. McCoy is staying at Texas. Stafford the QB out of Georgia will be the top pick going to Detroit. Malcolm Jenkins the top CB out of Ohio St. will be a top 10 pick. The 2009 draft’s deepest position is OT,so grab on of those hogs and
draft a corner with your 2nd rounder. As for the Jets,Dolphins game…. I am taking the Jets, 27-24. Whether they get in the playoffs who knows? Jags are more likely to beat the Ravens than the Pats losing to the Bills. Meaning,the 6th seed against N.E. if the Jets fail to make the playoffs with a 10-6 record so be it. -
If Favre retires, I think the Jets will have an “open” competition with Clemens and Ratliff and a vet to be signed. My choice would be Leftwich. He’d be a cheap alternative and would give Clemens and Ratliff a real run for their money. Also, he’d be a good veteran back up.
There’s no way I want Vick. Vick ended up being one of the easiest QBs to defend because teams just ended up with 8 in the box and blitzed him. They were unafraid of his passing ability (he has a long wind up despite a strong arm…so he can’t pass quickly off of the run, like McNabb). Also, he’s short for a pocket passer. IMO, Vick has no future as an NFL starting QB.
I think Ratliff has “it” and can be a good NFL QB…he has size, pocket presence, mobility and a strong arm. I haven’t gotten a read on his decision-making ability, accuracy or his ability to read defenses, which are all KC’s weaknesses (along with a lack of height). But, I don’t want KC as the Jets QB, I just don’t think he has what it takes.
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I like Ratliff when I watch him play. The problem I have with Ratliff is that he’s pretty much a low draft pick out of nowhere. I do’t even remember when the Jets picked him up. Like Derek Anderson, there’s usually a reason that a QB is unknown. There’s usually something realy important missing.
It would be nice if he beat out Clemens and was able to start. I like his arm and I like his poise. Everything else is up in the air with the guy.
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Sackdance99,
I like your thinking but I’d prefer Vick to Leftwich as the veteran backup for wilcat plays and as a slot receiver.
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Tim from NC,
The free pass comes from Tanny. He and Eric were grunts together in Cleveland 13 years ago, then again in NY before Eric went to NE with Bill. I believe they are on lock step, a package deal, so Eric gets more runway than another coach.
Why would I keep him? A change in head coach sets up back 2 to 3 years while we change systems, flip players, get the new “my guys” in and if we don’t win, spin again. Eric has proved he can learn. 1-He’s listening to his veterans. 2-He eased up on the length of practices. 3-He’s gave the team time off after big wins before and after the bye. 4-He let the offense make changes to suit Favre’s skills (slant passes, empty backfield…). Now you can argue if these things worked but he has made adjustments.
I listened to WFAN today while I was on the road, everyone calling for Eric’s head. I think they’re wrong. If I am, I will stand corrected.
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Steve says:
Only 12:1 on Brett coming back? I don’t know about that one… his arm strength isn’t what it used to be, but I don’t see him going out on such a sour note. Besides, I’m sure one person who will be lobbying hard for him to come back is Thomas Jones. Brett’s ability to stretch out defenses (unlike Chad Pennington) had a lot to do with TJ being the AFC’s leading rusher this season.
That said, we need to draft a QB, regardless. If there’s anything positive to come out of all this, perhaps now we’ll have a shot at Sam Bradford. If Stafford goes first, I could see Bradford falling to the second half of the first round like Brady Quinn, Aaron Rogers and Ben Roethlisberger did.
the ravens game has been moved to 4:15.
this is not good – we know run the risk of handing the division to the pats if we beat the dolphins – and then be on the outside looking in if the ravens win vs jacksonville