Commentary: Eric Mangini – Ex Coach
Before ranting, let me say that the quality of your comments here today is terrific. I’ve seen a lot of garbage on this site and a lot of nonsensical and childish posts. But, you guys are true fans who have exhibited smart, sensible opinions in a time of great change. Although it’s a black day, I’m proud to be a Jets’ fan.
That said, I’d like to comment on the firing of Mangini. The downside is obvious. 1) We’re certainly going to have to lose the players’ training that comes from the consistency of a team’s leadership over time. 2) We’re letting go of a promising young coach who may well be successful in the future. 3) We may not compete next year because of changes that a new coach will feel are essential. 4) We might pick another Rich Kotite. 5) We might not get the fan favorite, Bill Cowher, and we may have to pick a guy who is young and untested. That might put us three more years behind if he’s the wrong guy.
The upside is also obvious. 1) We might get Cowher or a great, young coach and win immediately. 2) We stop the bleeding and start fresh.
Mangini may also have been two young to win now. He’s only 37 and has shown signs this year of reacting, too much, to the media and to the fanbase. Early on he was criticized for being too reckless. In response, he became more conservative. His fourth down decisions, of late, have smelled of fear. He favored consistency so much that he failed to evaluate and insist on replacing incompetent coordinators. If he took over the defense, and there were signs that he did, it was too little and too late. He accepted the Favre acquisition against what we would assume to be his better judgment without a complaint (at least not a whisper of one in the press).
I’ve also not seen what I saw in 2006. I think he reacted precipitously to the criticism that his camps were too tough on the players. Every beat writer was timing his practices in pre-season. But, look what Sparano accomplished running long, arduous practices. I thought Mangini’s “lightening up” was not in the spirit of the great coaches like Parcells and Lombardi. I know about Coughlin having to lighten up, and nice guy coaches like Dungy, but I don’t think that was Mangini’s disposition. He should ahve stuck to his guns and his disciplined inclination.
These are the kind of mistakes a young coach makes. He listens to criticism and reacts. It takes an older, more seasoned head (or a talented, arrogant jerk) to ignore his press clippings and go all the way in this league. If you don’t agree, look at the ages of the winning coaches of the last 15 Super Bowls: Jimmie Johnson 49 and 50, George Seifert 50, Barry Switzer 52, Mike Holmgren 48, Mike Shanahan 45 and 46, Dick Vermeil 63, Brian Billick 46, Bill Belichick 49, 51 and 52, Jon Gruden 39, Tony Dungy 51, Bill Cowher 48 and Tom Coughlin 61. The only guy under 40 was Gruden and he was in his second stint as a head coach (by the way, the Bucs this year lost their last four and finished 9-7 after a promising start).
It’s possible that Mangini could not win here. Maybe he’ll make it his next try out of the box. Still, I would have liked to have seen him try to win with the Jets.
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I’m sure that when he gets another shot a being a HC, and he will get another chance, not right away, he may have to digress to a coordinator or even a position coach, but when it happens I’m sure he will do a much better job.
I think the biggest thing is, as you said “we didn’t see what we saw in 2006″
After that season, we all loved mangini for being really creative in gameplanning, getting the team super prepared for every game, and simply over performing.
The last 2 seasons have shown virtually no resemblance to that first season – and it seems like 2006 was just an aberration. that’s why i’m not sad to see him go.
I seem to remember a lot of the same critiisizm of Bellichek in Cleveland…a hard ass, reactive to critisizm, etc. Mangini will learn from his mistakes, and probably go on to have a good career. He’s too intelligent not to.
I’ve said this before. I liked Mangini, and for a while I thought he deserved another season. But after the Seahawks game I had enough.
The Jets were outplayed by inferior opponents on 5 occasions this season, winning two of those games (Raiders, 49ers, Seahawks, Bills, Chiefs). The team routinely had the same issues adjusting to teams week after week. The offense constantly stalled out after the 1st drive, and in the 2nd half of the season the defense had trouble getting off the field.
Mangini may be a great head coach one day, but he was too green for the role. He wasn’t a great coordiantor in his one season with NE, and we’ll see how long it takes to get another job.
That being said, I wouldn’t have been as upset as most if he came back. Clearly they needed to get rid of the coordinators, and clearly Favre was terrible down the stretch.
If we pick the wrong guy it’ll set us back 3 years is a little misleading in my opinion. Because if Mangini is the wrong guy, and we wait another year, we’re still in the same boat anyhow. Nothing changes and another year is lost.
The bottom line for me is that it didn’t seem like he inspired the players. It seems the only guys who got up for the games were the special teamers under Westhoff. Tactically, I like the guy, and I think he was a better coach than he might get credit for, but with a team filled with high priced veterans, there needs to be someone lighting a fire under their as*es, and that just wasn’t Mangini, Schottenheimer or Sutton. Aside from the obvious, I think thats why Cowher is the guy here. A coach the veterans making too much money will respect and be forced to play hard for.
This is a big biggest mistake by the Jets unless they get Cowher or Holmgren. I would make a run at Parcells or Marinelli who is a great motivator to the young players.
I share Andrew’s and Brandon’s sentiments. I don’t understand why Mangini/Schott seemed so creative in 06, but failed to carry those attributes into 07 and 08.
Still, I think the firing of Mangini will set this team back a year or two, which is too bad b/c the team has the talent to win today. I would have given Mangini at least 1-2 more seasons to learn from his mistakes and potentially improve.
The reason why the Jets have done nothing for 40 seasons is b/c they keep switching coaches every few years. Granted, some of those coaches were terrible, but I do not think that Mangini falls into the Kotite category. In fact, other than Parcells, I think Mangini was the Jets coach with most potential in the past 15-20 years.
Guys-
This team played 2 or 3 good games this year (want to talk about last year). So did KC, SEA,OAK, and STL!!!!!
Again, This is a clueless staff that is not competitive by NFL standards.
Thank God this is over.
the jets had the right guy and just fired him. in 3 seasons as a head coach, the guy has two winning campaigns, and gets canned….unreal.
im not saying mangini doesnt have a lot to learn, i’m saying the poor guy is 38 years old…let him learn.
cower isnt coming here…..he’d want total control of the team.
guess what mr t? when the qb you bring in totally implodes down the stretch, your team is going to lose. you should have fired favre!!
Lot of garbage posts to match the garbage comments. Touche!
I highly doubt that Mangini will get another shot. He didn’t architect 2 super bowl defenses (one being a the gem against Buffalo) before getting his first shot as a HC. His resume is spotty at best. He coached the db’s in NE which means that Bellichick did his job for him.
I bet Mangini tucks his tail between his legs and heads back to his daddy in NE.
I support Mangini and think we are making a big mistake letting him go.
When a coach can not inspire his players, makes bad game decisions and can not make adjustments during the game, he has no value.
I appreciate the fact that Jets ownership actually wants a winner
I don’t agree with the move, but I can live with it if two things happen:
1. We bring in a guy who can win now. We have a large core of guys who are in (or even slightly past) their prime: TJ, Coles, Faneca, Woody, Richardson, Jenkins, Coleman, Ellis, BT, Bowens, Barton, and obviously Favre. If we don’t compete for a title in the next year or 2, we still have Cotch, Harris, Revis, Rhodes, Brick, Leon… but we’d need to rebuild at a lot of other positions. This team was built to win sooner than later, so we need a coach who matches.
2. We get rid of Favre. If Mangini was a big problem the last few weeks, how huge a problem were Favre’s 9 int’s? I know this seems to go against the “win now” attitude, but honestly, how many young starting QB’s did better this year than Favre? A lot. Let’s find one and move on from this.
We need to be calling Cowher once an hour until he says yes.
Apparently Cowher has no interest in coaching, but that maybe because it was the Browns asking, even though he probably would have been in charge of player personnel. There is no way Cowher is coming here with Tanny still the GM. There are also rumors of Marty ball coming to NY, if that happens I am seriously going to consider scraping my Jets tattoo off my shoulder.
To Andrew Weiss:
Bob Twism has it right. Calling the commenters here garbage is not a way to win fans. Especially when some of the posts are equally bad. In particular, everything written by Mack Rosenberg is trite, recycled news and poorly written on top of that. And even Bassett–who has terrific insight about the Jets and does incredible substantive work–occasionally writes posts with grammatical and spelling errors. I generally don’t bother to point out these prolems because they don’t interfere with the content. But when you attack the commenters, please keep in mind that the writers aren’t always perfect.
Your own work, too, Mr. Weiss, is far from Perfect. For example, in this post you wrote: “Mangini may also have been TWO young to win now” The correct statement would have been TOO young. You also wrote “He should AHVE stuck to his guns and his disciplined inclination.” If you require editorial assistance, I am happy to lend a hand.
As for the firing, I think Mangini will turn out to be a good but not great head coach. So if Tannenbaum wants a great head coach who can build a perennial contender, this was probably a good move.
Incorporating Favre into the offense so late in the game would have been a challenge for even the most experienced veteran coach. Judging Mangini based solely on that is probably unfair. There may be only a select few guys out there who could have maximized the situation – I’d put Parcells at the top of that list.
It seemed to me that the adjustment was never fully made. There were some things done to accommodate Favre’s game and some things done to try to make him work within the pre-Favre plan, but the team seemed to swing erratically back and forth between differing philosophies, without successfully integrating them.
As a HC you have to know what you have and figure out how to make it work.
This team had one foot on the boat and one foot on the dock all year long.
I hate to say this, but I think that Favre ruined everything. If Pennington stuck around, it would remain a beautiful fit in Mangini’s system, not to mention an excellent offensive line, and a much improved defense.
However, Favre, being a gunslinging QB completely messed the whole thing up, and the coaches didn’t know how to make it work.
Brett Favre, the Jets fans have a beef with you.
Mangini was put into a spot with \Favre and it completely backfired. Fat Mike on the Fan is detailing this now. Favre is a coach killer and it played out here today.
Between the black and white lies the gray truth…glad to see the owners reacting and cutting their losses. Firing Mangini, Sutton, and Schotty makes perfect sense. I also feel that Brett should go and am disappointed Woody and Mike are still publically stating they want him back. WHY!!!
Mangini and his OC and DC simply weren’t producing, and with 7 digit salaries and a fine talent pool they should have been fired. Risk vs. Reward is the equation for all investment. Woody has put a huge amount of capital at risk and so the Jets should have produced a better return. If Farve was hurt he should have been pulled. Hopefully new mgmt can provide better mgmt as I agreee with Pound4Pound comments that our expensive team ain’t getting any younger (nor am I)!
Woody is having trouble selling PSL’s, although it may not be the main reason, he clearly wants Favre back which is going to be a big mistake. Apparently Woody and Mangini never got along all that well, the Favre signing was the icing on the cake and out with Mangini. I tihink he is going to be a great coach one day unfortunately it will not be with the Jets.
I would have given Mangini an extention as soon as I found out he undressed Favre for his awful play. This guy was a young coach put in position to cater to an aging selfish QB that refused to not make mistakes. Not a scapegoat huh??
I like that he called out Favre too. How could any coach not if the QB was playing the way Favre did?
Fat Mike is saying the other coaches werent fired… I thought B-Schott and Sutton were fired also?
The team has the talent, and this is a league where wins are everything. Why didn’t the Jets post the Balt-Jacksonville on the scoreboard last night at the game? The fans all knew the score. The only time they put it up was when it was 7-3 Jacksonville. IT WAS BECAUSE THEY HAD TO MANAGE IT, THE COACH COULD NOT. No fire, no enthusiasm, no talking to players, no intensity. The Jets made the right call, unfortunately. And I would trade Chad or Favre today. Chad is one ravens sack away from a career ending rotator cuff injury. We sacked him yesterday and he coughed it up, only one sack!
Ohh please no, they better have been fired, Newsday is reporting one thing, Fat Mike the other, what gives?
I felt that Mangini lost the team…maybe more will unfold over time, but this team never showed emotion and that came from the top down. I never felt like anyone on this team enjoyed playing the game of football. They seemed that the last game they were up for was Tennessee. Maybe they all just got tired of Mangini and it wore them down. It will all be guesswork, but I would bet he lost the team after they were so high and then they followed up with not being prepared for some obviously inferior teams that followed.
Hey Mike, we would have won if Favre wasn’t 20 of 40 for 3 INTs. Same with Seatlle and that was our worst coached game of the year by far.
You will hear “sources” say that some Jet players sisnt like mangini. Heres the deal the media and the overatted QB didnt like Mangini. This is why he was fired today.
It is a sad day to be a Jets fan and now we wait to see if Brett comes back which I think he should. Mangini will come back to haunt us in years to come especially if he gets the Buffalo or Cleveland job which is there for the taking if he wants it. If Favre does retire then the Jets better think seriously about going after McNabb or even a longer shot, Micheal Vick. If Tampa lets Garcia go then there is an opening but if management thinks they will get a qb in the draft they are out of their minds. Every minute is crucial now and the dominoes will start to fall and you better duck.
I don’t like- that Favre doesn’t like being “called out” by the coach. Hey, he threw an interception in his last game last year that stopped the packers. I think he may be good to guide a new qb, but it also will not cause me to lose sleep if he doesn’t come back. He does sell tickets, but is that a real problem?
Farve is still a top qb in the NFL that is not even debateable unless your an idiot or just a hater like most people. Alot of happy, I told you so people yesterday talking like Brett is a loser, HE IS A HALL OF FAMER, idiots!!!!
What a difference since that tenn and ne wins. What a shame this season went down the tubes. And what happened to Jenkins? Did he get tired?
If you go back and read the blogs from the day after the tenn game, you’ll all sleep better.
Have you looked at next years scheduled opponents? Looks tough for anyone….
Happy New Year- see you on opening day.
Favre is a clown. He showed his colors last year during that GB mess and then played like crap and threw his coac h under the bus in the process. Now he will hold this franchise hostage for a month while he dictates what coach and scheme will to move forward with.
John Elway is a ” HALL OF FAMER” too dev27k. and like Favre, his time has passed.
By the way, I love favre. And I also felt sick when I saw fans tossing their $80 favre jerseys from the upper deck yesterday at the end of the game.
Favre is a HOFer because of what he did in the 90s, certainly not what he did this season. He was a disaster down the stretch, maybe it was injuries, maybe not. Jet fans have every right to crticize a QB that throws 2 TDs and 10 INTs in the last 5 weeks in the season.
This was a rough season.
While Mangini appears to be a hard worker and a good game planner, his negatives are too many.
1.No good feel for the game
2.No motivational
3.Not able to make adjustment fast and during the game
4.Not communicating properly and efficiently with his players (hence untrustworthy)
5.A flawed understanding of the game of football (Chad was his life-line and he could not see it)
Some of these negatives can be corrected with Maturity but some others require IT. I do not think that Mangini has that IT and I suspect that he will never be a good NFL coach.
I bet that Mangini will have a very hard time getting another try as an NFL head coach.
I guess I am an idiot since I watched Favre throw 9 INTS in the last 5 games as we went down the toilet. He finished the year the 3rd best QB in the AFC East…lol
HOF yes, but awful QB this year, yes as well. A top QB in this league, not sure which games you were watching this year but to put him in that league would be a disservice to Manning, Brees, etc.
Maybe mangini should call Detroit?
Nikolas….Also add that Favre sucked the last 5 games to your silly Mangini list. The coach was crippled by awful QB play down the stretch
Since favre is obviously hurt, who goes to pro bowl- rivers or cassel?
Favre is hurt? His arm looked okay. Maybe someone should check his brain. When defenses made him think he was awful…..
Drew….I never claimed that the collapse was due to Mangini. Mangini is clearly a scapegoat of Woody and Tanny. And I never expected anything different from Favre. What I am trying to say is that Mangini is not the loss that some of you may think. He has a lot of flaws.
I think I need an MRI after watching yesterdays game in person or at least a CAT scan
to those blaming favre for this mess,
you are completely correct. i called this back in the summer. favre’s heart was never in it (being a jet) from the get go…..AND he’s just not that good anymore. chad was a jet-lifer and loved it here. not saying the jets are in the playoffs with chad, but at least he would have given the jets 100%. favre should have retired THREE YEARG AGO.
Favre would do good if he actually worked out in offseason camps, and not tossing the ball around in his camo shorts to high scholl students. He can go out on top with this team, they will follow him to battle. He needs to be better prepared and make next year his last.
As for a coach, if cowher wont share personnel duties with tannenbaum, then we can fire tannenbaum too, or move the the next guy.
as a side note, cowher told the brown TODAY that hes not coaching in 2009.
Billick.
Mike -
I hope you’re kidding. Favre is hurt? Did you see the lasers he was throwing yesterday? It’s just a ridiculous excuse for his 22 interceptions. He’s a clown.
Eli, I agree about Favre not being in it from the get go, and his comments yesterday- things may work out, and they may not. Not very good leadership comments. He should retire and he has been a great qb, a HOF, but he has been, thats the key.
Browns apparently interested in Mangini. Ironic if he fails in NY and succeeds in Cleveland.
One thought about Belichick – sure he succeeded in NE, but would he have eventually succeeded in Cleveland if they waited that long, or did he need to be able to start from scratch? If so, then even if Mangini will one day be a great head coach, the Jets are still probably right to get rid of him. They just need to do a better job of replacing him than the Browns did with Belichick.
Did he do anything to correct Favre’s awful play? Did he develop a game plan to minimize the damage Favre could do in those games and did he stick to it? It’s not like he didn’t have a good running game at his disposal. If he let Favre dictate the play calling down the stretch, then he should be fired since obviously he didn’t have command of his own team.
We will all know if the mangina firing was favre’s doing when we get our next coach if its marriucci,holmgren,morenwhieg or anyone of the west coast offensive coordinators then it was favre who had it done if not then it wasnt
Steve Mariucci anyone?
What is dec27k talking about? Packers fans need to go to a Packers blog, go away.
I wouldn’t be suprised if the Jets would like to re-hire him for the defensive coordinator and I think it will put him in a better situation.
Secondly, the coordinators haven’t been fired yet because I’m sure they want a HeadCoach in place to make or help make those decisions, but surely Sutton and Schotty will go.
I feel badly for Eric Mangini but if a team collapses in that manner, whether or not Mangini was a scapegoat, it needed to be done. He is the voice that runs the team and if the team is not running, the voice is probably not there.
As for Favre coming back? I don’t think he will come back or I hope he doesn’t come back, don’t do further damage to the legacy you have not shown us Jets fans and I guess what they say about him is true as far as a coach killer.
The mistake was made when they changed there game plan according to a washed up quarterback who didn’t even know the playbook until Tennessee, and then forgot them all.
I would not mind having Mangini back for DC but I doubt he will be able to swallow his pride and come back with a lesser role.
While Favre didn’t have his best season he is getting way to much blame for this year on this site. Keep in mind the following:
1) He has NO #1 reciever on the field! L Coles?? Guy is a joke. Cotchery? A #2/3 at best. Nobody gets open / seperation, which is why on 4th and 2 he IS FORCED to launch the ball downfield. The play call was NOT for a 30 yard pass, but what else can you do on 4th down when your primary target is covered? You have to try to make a play….Favre made his best throw of the day….and Coles Dropped it. This is an example of the entire season, most of you seem to blame #4 for making the throw, instead of #87 for failing to step up when called upon.
2) a qtr of his int’s were on tipped passes or miscommunication with his wideouts (coles in sd and buff, cotchery not runnin in oak, stuckey in cincy and yesterday) He has no experience with any of these mediocre wideouts, he is used to Driver and Jennings, 2 play makers that are superior to any of the jets wide outs.
3) He has ALWAYS been high risk high reward, let #4 be #4, why did we try to coach him into Chad Pennington?
Mr. Favre is part of the Solution next year. If this team is committed to winning they will get Favre a true #1 wr, combined with the new regime’s offensive identify Favre will shine. Also, he will be free from the Madden Curse, as he definitely aint on the cover next year……
Maybe we can get Vinny back too
There going to go big name coach so woody can sell his psl’s
I love how people keep bringing up the OLD FAVRE and mediate the pain of the NEW FAVRE.
Trying to argue that he is not to blame because he is a Hall of Fame Quarterback is like saying Isiah Thomas was a FRONT OFFICE/COACHING GURU because of his body of work in his prime.
Stop fondling Favres gentials, he will not acknowledge you in anyway shape or form.
All Things- Very funny
Gotta head out to work. Took a third job so I can buy my PSL’s.
Favre going to Hawaii over Rivers is a JOKE. What a popularity contest. The rest of the Pro Bowlers actually deserve it, and we had a few alternates. So how bad were the OTHER guys on the team???
I can’t wait to see the official Jets Blog player evaluation. Some guys are going to get ROCKED. Kerry Rhodes? Chris Baker? Ty Law? All our Safeties? F Minus.
But in hindsight of writing this, I realize how few bad players we have. I was upset that Mangini got canned, but maybe they’re right. I doubt anyone will be sad to see Sutton go though. What a waste.
sjd – man, I forgot about the Madden Curse. That’s one powerful animal. I wonder if Chad will be on the cover next year!
This team never knew what it wanted to be. It was built in the offseason to be conservative, to run and stop the run. That’s fine. Then they got Favre in August. Then they tried to limit his gun-slinging. They should now decide what to be, and then find the proper HC.
Amen Rich
“Favre going to Hawaii over Rivers is a JOKE. What a popularity contest.”
Absolutely, but then if the league will persist in having the voting in midseason (right when Favre and the Jets were playing well), then they are going to end up with situations like this every year. I’m sure there are undeserving members of teams like the Bucs headed there too. If they waited until now to do the voting, there’s no way Favre would even figure.
SJD- Really now? You kidding me? The pass to Coles was a great throw, but are you serious about the rest?
There were miscommunications, but if he looked before he threw the ball to a spot he may have seen the WR was not headed there.
Tipped balls wah wah every QB has to deal with that. Some even over come them.
How was letting him have packages he wanted and alwasy putting the game in his hands making him Chad Pennington? BTW this year he isn’t half teh man or player Chad was.
Keller was one of the best TEs he ever had. Thomas Jones may have had the best rushing year of anyone he ever played with and LC/Cotchery have both been 1,000yd WRs
Wake up a 40yr old man should not be playing QB.
Rich….100% correct…this team changed from week to week…they never knew who they were and what they were capable of…after they saw what they did in NE and Tenn, they probably all thought they knew who they were, but then they went west and changed their identity again…unfortunately, it was for good. The identity crisis comes from the head coach. You can’t be all things all people. You are who you are. That is why Mangini might be a good coach down the road, but that is only after he realizes who he is. Let’s get ready to welcome Rex Ryan (DC-Baltimore) as new HC, if Cowher says no. The only other wrinkle…with Favre, I can’t see him coming back with another new system, under another new HC, unless its Holmgren.
Do you think Marty Shottenhiemer would consider the Jets an option when we just fired his son?
I think he is the best non-Cower option out there… Look at his numbers. I know he has a rep for not being able to “win the big game”, but the Jets would be fortunate just to get to a “big game” at this point in our history.
P.S. In retrospect, the Farve trade maybe considered one of the worst moves in franchise history. We traded away a franchise QB in his prime for a 40 year old who led the league in INT’s durring his one year with the team. If Pennington had this years O-Line and Run game, he would have returned to 2002 – 2004 form (back when we had an o-line and C-Martin).
Dear Woody Johnson,
It is about winning, not money. Favre must go, he is the reason for the firing and the losing. With that said, it is Cowher or Parcells, thats it. Neither one will want Favre. Stop being fancy and run the ball and play defense will win super bowls. See the Giants. By the way, did you see Favre’s pregame speech, no passion, no leadership, not Pennington.
Wait a second am i reading this correctly or am i having a nightmare.Mangini got the players he wanted in the offseason on defense and still this team could not put pressure on the quarter back,make plays in man coverage,stop teams in the red zone,and play consistent for 4 quarters but we have fans stating that they would except him back as our defenisive coordinator…NOT ME with the way he handled GHOLSTON and not finding a place for him even if it was on first or third down to create some havoc was a horrible coaching decision…Like i said having a beast like GHOLSTON sit on the sidelines while opposing Quarter Backs are eating us alive…..inexcusable…
I’m surprised how many people are calling this a dark day and are saying we made a mistake. I was rooting for this! I said that if I could guarantee that Mancoffee would be fired with a loss, that I hoped the Jets would lose.
The man is Willy Randolph. He mimics all of the outward actions of the HC without any of the genius. Not talking about injuries? Keeping the press conferences short? Yeah, those win ball games.
How about making an adjustment at halftime so that yesterday wasn’t your first opening 2nd half points in 37 games (it was a 28 yard drive to remind you).
I won’t rehash everything from the Seattle game, to the KC game-plan, to 0-4 against pretty bad teams out West.
Simply put, Mangini was an awful head coach who got his start, not as a positions coach but as A COFFEE GOPHER in Cleveland. He’s a nice guy that was way over his head. We he the only problem? Absolutely not. His coaches were pathetic. But if you’re not part of the solution ….
With Herm and Eric, the Jets were constantly having moderate success IN SPITE of their coaching, not b/c of it.
I liked Mangini, the guy finished with two winning seasons out of three nd got royally stitched up with the Favre signing.
I remember feeling really torn in the summer when that was announced. On one hand, we got Brett Favre, but on the other I though Chad could have done us a good job with the new O-Line and so on. Anyway, these are all old arguments, Mangini and his co-ordinators ar gone, so what now?
You hear alot of people saying “if x happens we might end up being 3 years behind…” ok, that seems reasonable, but think about it. Behind what? We aren’t winning anything now, we aren’t setting the league on fire now, we aren’t even competng properly right now, so the way I see it, we already behind. So lets say getting some new guy means it takes us say, 6 years to win the SB, so what? Realistically, we aren’t winning anything at teh moment, so let’s take as long as it takes. Yeah I’d love the team to win it all next year, but it’s not going to happen is it? So please, let’s make sure we get someone who is good fit ofr the team, big name or not, and when they arrive, let’s give them time and support. Well, until they turn out to be shocking, right?!
I guess Mangini could have called a safer play than a screen pass that Favre somehow got intercepted and returned for a TD. Favre has been a nightmare for the last 5 weeks. Nobody could have stopped that trainwreck
Billick would be a good choice after Marty, if Billick could only learn how to handle the media.
Well Manginis gone.. I tink it was a mistake… I think we should have fired Schott and Sutton and kept Mangini… Atleast for the last year of his contract… See if we could hire Rex or Rob Ryan as DC… Someone with a proven track record and a big fire under their ass for the emotion Mangini seems to lack… For OC hire a run first punch you in the mouth type of guy… Who that is im not really sure…
Now that none of that is an option.. I believe Cowher would fit our team best… He likes to run, run, run, then run some more and when hes done with that run it again.. With our O-Line, TJ and Little Leon we have the potential to do some big things that way… On Defense he runs the 3-4 and we most certainly have all the pieces for that we just need to rush more than 3 guys and I think we’ll do just fine…
I heard on here someone say that Marty ball might be coming to N.Y. if thats the case than I’m all for that to for all the same reasons I posted about Cowher..
Who ever the coach is I hope that the fan base will support him for at least 2 years before bashing the life out of him…
the team is in a horrible position. we just signed a lot of old guys who want to win now and ther team will not benefit from a rebuilding year right now.
Hey Bassett,
Perhaps you should think about organizing another letter writing campaign (like the pats/belecheat one), targeting Woody Johnson to NOT bring favre back.
If he’s dead set on favre coming back solely because he thinks it’s good for the PSL/Jersey sales part of the business – he needs a reality check that crappy qb play is not what this fan base will pay for.
jets next personnel moves:
1. make favre retire. 12 mil for 22 ints is rediculous, we could pay Rex Grossman the veterans minimum to do that.
2. trade coles. get a draft pick back, unload 5.5 mil off the cap and a diva.
3. trade B. Thomas. he was invisible most of the season, and we can’t afford to pay gholston that much to sit. I don’t care if he only knows 1/2 the playbook, for 50 mil, 21 mil guaranteed, he HAS to play.
4. cut eric smith. he sucks.
5. trade/cut Barker. he sucks. it’s keller time now.
6. draft taylor mays (usc) or william moore (mizz) in the first round. playmaking safety to shore up our shotty pass d.
7. sign N. asomugha from oakland. free agent, another pro bowl corner opposite revis.
8. let clemens and ratliff duel it out in training camp.
Also whoever takes over needs to get a reciver over 6 foot tall…
SJD –
You are drunk on memories of Brett Farve past. Despite his anomoly of a season last year, his career clearly peaked about ten years ago. He won his 3 MVP’s in the late 90’s (which is now 10 years ago!!!).
Coles and Cotchery are one of the better receiving tandems in the league. Look at their productiong over the last few years catching passes from the “inferioir” Chad Pennington. This offense had so many more weapons that the Packers of the last few years…
O-Line…. Alan Faneca, Daminen Woody, Nick Mangold, and D’Brickashaw VERSUS Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher and the poo-poo platter at guard
Advantage Jets
RB… Thomas Jones and Leon Washington VERSUS Ryan Grant and Samkon Gado
Advantage Jets
WR… Lav Coles, Cotchery, Stucky and Brad Smith VERSUS Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, and James Jones
Advantage Push (seriously… go look at Lav Coles career stats)
TE… Dustin Keller, Chris Baker “The Touchdown Maker” and Bubba Frank VERSUS Bubba Frank and Donald Lee
Advantage Jets
As one of the first to call for Mangini to be fired, I am looking at today as being a positive. Woody wants to win and what he saw these last five weeks wasn’t to his liking. So Woody will spend the money to bring a Cowher or maybe Parcells here. Personally I want Cowher.
For those Chad fans in the audience (and I always liked Chad), Chad would not have had the same success under Schott as he did under Henning. Henning changed the offense to match Chad’s strengths. Did Schott change anything for Brett. I DON’T THINK SO!
The main reason Mangini was fired besides PSL sales, was the JETS Defense. Mangini was supposed to be a defensive Genius, yet the JETS “D” was terrible the last 5 weeks. So in the end, his supposed strength is what got him fired.
As an aside, it is interesting that none of the coaching staff has been fired as yet. Does this mean anything???
Editor – no way Schotty and Sutton stay (also didn’t Basset amend earlier report to indicate they’re fired too?)
Louis – dead right on personnel moves with only edit being for #8 – can Clemens and pick up Derek Anderson (provided he passes a physical)
Editor- He did change things for Brett. We never ran an empty set before him.
to dev27k and your comment Re: “HE IS A HALL OF FAMER, idiots!!!”:
…and? What exactly does pointing out that gem prove? Sure, he’s a hall of famer — H’e'll also be a “hall of famer” when he reaches 50 years of age — does that mean he should still play professional football? Should we simply retain him for as long as FAVRE pleases simply because he’s a “Hall of Famer”? It’s precisely this sort of trite, short-sighted commentary that prevents any objective discussion or analysis.
Clearly, FAVRE’s performance as a QB THIS YEAR was FAR from “Hall of Fame” caliber. More like toilet bowl caliber.
Favre is clearly done, and should NOT play another down for the NFL. Some may argue [and I would agree] that he’s been done for quite some time. But even if has surgery on his precious shoulder and comes back in top form [let's say FAVRE of 2002, for example], the JETS should remove him regardless, like the tumor that he is to this team.
He should be left OUT of any future plans for the JETS for his self-serving/narcissistic character traits, neither of which would benefit any NFL team, most of all a team like the current roster with their seeming lack of motivation … in fact, that may be what was missed by removing Chad and his leadership, his passion for the game and for rallying his teammates — not only during the game, but during the weekly practices leading to each game as well. Quite a sharp contrast to Favre and his “boyish enthusiasm” [displayed only after scoring one of his TDs]. From casual observation of the sideline shots during gametime, we’d see Hall of Famer Brett Favre standing there, saying little to nothing to his fellow teammates, waiting for his next chance to heave another ball in the air.. hell, there’s a 50% chance one of his own teammates will catch it!!
As others have indicated in prior comments, ultimately it was the horrid play-calling, not the QB — regardless of who it was — that sealed our fate this season; no QB of any stature would have taken us far with the level of gametime decision-making and scheming that took place in several key points during some crucial games. Regardless, the “Hall of Famer” has to go.
schott sucked after that first year ..and he should have taken a job elsewhere.. he’s the most inflexible OC in the pro’s
A good QB could have / would have gotten us into the playoffs. There were a lot of missed throws.
Favre has cost Mangini his job! Chan Pennington would have won 12 games with this Jets Team and with this coach.
This Favre move was the owners move to sell seat licensing fees… nothing more.
I hope Favre retires because this owner Johnson is NUTS wanting Favre back!
Joe
Chad Pennington “a franchise QB in his prime”? Hardly. A very good game manager. But Chad is not going to win any games on his own. Witness some of his efforts in 2007.
Joe S. – Woody is simply counting the bucks that one more year of Farve brings in…notthing more, nothing less. Can you honestly tell me if you could make an extra $50M (guessing of course) from keeping him, even though you know he’s very unliklely to do more for you than first round playoffs, wouldn’t you do it?
Woody doesn’t own this franchise for the fans, he owns it as a capitalist.
everyone needs to read Ethan Gooderum’s post. No one else could put it any better. That is exactly what happened this season.
Loius no way should we release barker(I THINK U MENT BAKER)he can block and catch the ball wIth great effectiveness why pass up the opportunity to have two great TE’s exploiting the middle of the field…and BRAD coles/cotchery one of the best tandums in the league get me DRUNK to believe that one I’ve seen more drop passes this year out of these tWo than a greased pig…..sign BOLDEN,DRAFT CRABTREE,ATLEAST MAKE AN EFFORT TO SIGN A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK,AND GET SOME CB HELP VIA DRAFT OR FREE AGENCY…
I think Favre made a lot of great throws that helped win games, specifically the midrange bullets like the one to LC in the back of the end zone in Tennessee. But, yes, he also missed a lot of throw and made some awful decisions down the stretch. If I were confident there were a lot more of the former than the latter left in him, I’d be for bringing him back. I’m not. I hope Deanna feels the same way and clears a spot for him on the Mississippi porch.
Joe S.
So you were predicting a 12 win season for the Jets back in July. Stop with the Chad Revisionist history. The team would’ve done no better under Chad. I admit Favre was awful down the stretch but so was the defense and so was the coaching on both sides of the ball. BTW, the special teams also stunk down the stretch.
I liked Chad and would love to see him succeed. But I bet Ed Reed is licking his chops down in Baltimore right now. If Chad gets this Dolphin team past the Ravens I’ll be very impressed.
I was not the Drew that was just on WFAN with Mike. I though both of Pennington’s TD’s throws were bad. I do hate Favre though
Bart with Chad we win ten or eleven games. Before the season I would have said we go 10-6 with him, because we went 10-6 with him every other year. Chad beats Seattle, Oakland and San Fran, but loses to the Titans.
I dont know how many wins Penny would have had here but I know he would have thrown 22 INTS. I wanted Favre in the summer but I was wrong. He killed this team down the stretch.
JetsFanForLife, A few more losing seasons just so the owner can make more money????
NO THANKS!
I will not be paying a seat licensing fee! In fact… I don’t think I want to be a season ticket holder any more! Its not worth it!
Joe
He probaly loses both NE games. The 2nd was Favre best game as a Jet
farve is a complete joke and a media creation by networks like fox, espn. he is the roger clemems of football without the steroid use.
toto FAVRE didn’t need steroids he had his booze and painkillers to help him play with greatness(LOL)
kd bart, Yes I prediceted a 10 to 12 win season with Chad and this was before the Favre thing all started. Go back and look if its possible.
After what Chad did with that CRAP Miami offinse just proved to me that I was right!
Joe
There is no doubt that Favre’s stats weren’t acceptable by any remote standard the last 5 games. But, why not make it easier for the 39-year old interception machine? Take a look at the 49ers box score:
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29731&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2008&week=REG14
Now, look at the number of rushes for TJ; yes, that would be 10 for 56 yards. Look at the number of rushes for Leon; yes, that would be 1 rush. Now, look at Favre’s line: 20-31 for 187 yards and 1 INT to go along with a rushing TD. Now, was that loss Favre’s fault? Does anyone here actually think it was sound coaching to run the AFC’s leading rusher 10 times on the road? Then, take a look at how the 49ers steam-rolled the defense. Maybe the defense would’ve been better if the offensive drives were longer, ate more clock? And, as Rhodes said after the Game (I paraphrase): “We were prepared for their offensive plays, but they came out and started running plays from formations that we hadn’t seen before.” Now, do you think BB could have adjusted to stop the immortal Shaun Hill?
The Seattle loss was just a comedy of bad coaching. Not going for it on 4th down on the first drive, not kicking an FG right after Feely boomed an FG, not punting when it’s 4th down, you’re in FG territory AND have all 3 TOs.
Oh, and yesterday, yes, Favre was terrible. But, with all that, the Jets defense was worse! Chad’s line should have also included 3 TOs; the Jets D dropped 2 easy picks and the one Barton dropped was an easy pick 6. The flea flicker catch and the Fasano TD were just jokes. Oh, and how about Mangini not challenging that obvious safety? And, the last pick was a ball Stuckey should have caught and, IMO, Stuckey shouldn’t have been in…why was he active and Clowney inactive?
Mangini just didn’t have this team ready to play. The team was playing tight and lifeless. And, IMO, he ruined Keller’s confidence right at the time Favre needed his favorite weapon most. Blame Favre all you want, but the right guy paid the price for the collapse.
good one gang green, worst interceptions all year happened yesterday and it cost mangini his job when he turned things around in the damn first place.
I am pretty excited to hear Fat Mike ask Mr.T 100 different ways why this team would want Favre back at 4:00. How many times will MrT say we win as a team and lose as a team or there are 52 other players plus coaches to blame not just the QB
What makes everyone think Favre is so valuable in PSL sales if conventional wisdom is that he looked old and played badly down the stretch? The NY media is solidly against Favre returning and, from reading the blogs, I don’t get the sense the majority of Jet fans support Favre coming back next year, either. I don’t follow the logic.
i really like gruden…
and i want one of the ryans for DC
what does anyone think about one of the ryans becoming head coach?
Sack Dance?? Favre threw a pic on a F-ing screen pass. How much safer a throw can a QB make? I agree the play calling sucked at times but Favre was a trainwreck who was out of control everytime he dropped back. Especially after the league figure out the short passing game and he had to read a defense.
Subway
I have been thinking the same since this morning!! Woody and Mr T have to know that Favre is retiring to make those comments this morning. Where are they selling jerseys and PSL’s with this guys showing?
toto613, That INT to the D lineman was a CLASIC Richard Todd like INT. I thought I was having flashbacks.
Most of you are probably too young to remember those! I still have see those when I have bad Jet dreams!
Joe
WE all need to get out of denial CHAD has the potential to be a future hall of famer….Great quarter back rating,great leader and motivator,the ability to win when everyone around him says otherwise,and handles the media like a true professional…Any true Jets fan knows we f’d this one up letting him go with the excuse that WHO KNEW HE WOULD RECOVER SO WELL FROM INJURY THIS YEAR>>>>>)This is CHAD PENNINGTON ONE THING WE CAN NEVER FORGET AS JETS FANS IS HIS SELF MOTIVATION,LEADERSHIP QUALITIES,TEAM MOTIVATOR AND A MAN WHO ALWAYS TRIED TO PLAY HIS BEST WITH HIS LIMITED PHYSICAL SKILLS
I like Favre still and hope he comes back b/c unfortunately, Clemens hasn’t shown anything and Ratliff is really young. I’d say one more year out of Favre would be ideal, assuming he has no significant shoulder injuries.
Clearly, his play has been largely maddening this year, oftentimes without any ability to excuse the INT’s (e.g., throwing it right in the chest of a defender), but if his arm is intact, he’s our best option heading into next year. And I say that with the expectation that he still has the ability to throw for around 30 TD’s and perhaps make a few less mistakes and keep the INT’s to a number closer to 15 (he’s still “good” for about one a game, even when playing well).
I also don’t think having a Chad vs. Clemens battle would have resulted in more than 9 wins this year. I don’t think they beat the Cardinals, Titans or Patriots this year with Chad (not to mention Favre beat Chad in 1st game anyway). I also distinctly remember the JETS having “same old JETS” games while Chad was there, so I’m not sure how many of the games during this recent collapse Chad was going to save us from.
Good for Chad, he’s a great guy and due to his intelligence, he’s an effective NFL QB, but as someone mentioned, Baltimore is licking its chops right now, as should any team with an elite defense in the playoffs going against Chad’s pop-gun arm (the JETS should’ve had a few picks off Chad yesterday, thrown into double coverage and they were absolute ducks).
Had to take the chance at greatness. Not surprisingly, it blew up in the JETS’ face.
***But lets not forget that Fave and the JETS had people (likely not JETS fans ha ha) believing they were maybe the best team in the AFC and likeliest representative in the Super Bowl pretty late into the season, after they beat the Titans and then pushed their record to 8-3. So while it was a devastating collapse and Favre was awful during it, I think the “highs” this season were high enough to merit Favre’s return under a new, less idiotic coaching staff.
i take what i said about parcells back it looks like he wants to coach again and that would be great ..for 1 – 2 years ..we need long term though but i’ll take the tuna
Sack they had us by 20 minutes in time of possession. By the 4th qtr we had to abandon the run because of how many 3 and outs we had. He ran ten times for 56 with a long of 17, which was a td and I’m thankful for. Making him 9 carries for 39yrds. That seems like it could lead to some 3 and outs considering a man like TJ probably broke another 9 or ten yards run in there.
Favre lost the Miami and Seatle games. People get off his junk. If that had been Chad he would have been relieved by Ratliff or KC.
Favre was locking in on Keller when other receivers were running open on the other side of the field. On several occasions, either Coles or Cotchery were coming open while Favre threw to a double-covered Keller.
subwayfare, The owner said this morming that he wants Favre back.
He is the dilusional one!
Joe
I will say this, again. QB is not a “plug and play” position. Plugging Chad in for this season would not have changed anything. Miami crafted the perfect offense for Chad. Minimized his WR throws and jacked up his TE and RB passes. That’s not the offense he ran with the Jets. Do you think Coles would’ve been happy with only 56 receptions? There’s an equal chance that Chad would’ve been injured and his career terminated. Chad won, the Jets D gifted a win for him and Favre provided the bow. Good for Chad; it doesn’t mean that he would’ve done anything as a Jet.
The only reason I could imagine they’d be truly behind Favre returning, and believing that would help with sales, is if they already had a deal with Holmgren and could sell it as the reunion of SB HC and QB. Or if they had Parcells coming back to the sidelines and he’d already signed off on Brett.
I do think they must have a coach already lined up if they acted this decisively.
gang green,
I agree Great Post!
Favre generates a better market for psl’s because so many of the media are in his corner and talking alot more about the jets in the offseason. helps drive some excitement and sales. think of psl’s compared to the alternative of clemens/ratliff.
winning is the best sales tool, but thats difficult to control… injuries, sched, blah, blah,blah.
thats not to say johnson doesnt want to win. sure he does. but he’s has to start paying back something along the lines of $500M of borrowed money for the construction.
kj, Where are you getting this info that Parcells wants to coach again????
If this is true… then I understand the Mangini firing.
Mr. T is a Parcells guy!
Again, Chad’s a classy pro, wish him the best, but let’s see if he survives his old nemesis, Ed Reed, next week before we start sending him to Canton.
seanmac, are you talking about yesterday or generally? Also, do you feel that Favre lost confidence in his WRs? Coles and Jericho had a ton of drops and just never got any separation.
JAGG, Mangini lost the Seattle game. 4th and 1/2 yard on the 2 yard line. Every rush, including to the FB, had gained, at least, 4 yards up to that point. So, you’re telling me that the Jets wouldn’t have gotten a 1/2 yard? 7 points there and that whole game changes.
I heard Parcells want out of his deal if the team is sold but nothing on his wanting to coach again
Chad Pennington will never be a hall of famer, but he bled green and he works hard at his craft. He wasn’t blessed with physical skills like Favre or Brady, but he could play ball and if he ran the same offense from last year with this years team. The Pats would probably be in the playoffs and we could have saved some money and gone 10-6 to 11-5. We all know what can go 10-6. Remember 04, 06 and what a shock in 08 he led a 1-15 team in 07 to 11-5. Statistically he wouldn’t have had as good a year here, but the team would have done better.
Sackdance you just proved my point the JETS coaching staff sucked…IF miami set a scheme for him to win 11 games in why couldn’t the JETS….CHAD would have played better than FAVRE this seasion and would not have turned the ball over 22 times like FAVRE and another point is CHAD as the team motivator I dont think we would have seen the ZOMBEE jet players on the side line like we did this season…CHAD leadership and motivation could of willed a few more wins for the JETS this season meaning we would at least have made the playoffs….
Sack- They both lost that game. If either of them had done their job we would have won. Every week players bail out coaches and coaches bail out players. They both totally blew that game.
steviek-
More people in the media are in his corner? Really? I haven’t seen much support. And the PSL sales are directed at Jet fan’s, right? Not just random people on the street who recognize the name. I think that if Woody does want Favre back it’s because he actually thinks he can win. I don’t necessarily agree.
SackDance99, The Jets changed their entire offence for Favre and it didn’t work.
Chad… with this offensive line would have won 12 games for the Jets this season! These are facts my friends… facts!
This Favre thing and the discarding of Chad cost you a playoff Buy this season.
FACTS!!!!!!!!
[...] the Jets Blog, which has been humming with activity today, Andrew Weiss examines the downside of firing Eric [...]
And on all the Chad stuff, please.
CP is a good qb. Not great. He is what he is. Many pluses, and a few minuses which lead to real limitations.
Everyone here knows how to play Chad… pressure and stay all over the short to immediate stuff. Jets dont have the speed at LB to do that effectively. Lets see what Baltimore does.
I can’t see Favre doing all the offseason stuff. He can split the locker room with that. Why do I have to come in from my hometown and lift during the offseason if this guy doesn’t to watch him throw int’s all of the field in november?
This could get ugly.
“The Jets changed their entire offence for Favre and it didn’t work.”
I disagree with this statement. I think they half changed their offense and half didn’t. They swung erratically back and forth in philosophy, without integrating effectively. One foot on the boat, one on the dock.
GG, I think the coaching was atrocious down the stretch, but Chad was never the great motivator/leader that you are making him out to be. On the Fins, he finally was the old vet brought in to provide leadership and experience to a young team. That was not his role with the Jets. The Jets have lots of vets, like Coles, TJ, Faneca, etc. Chad just found the right team for him at the right time. On the Jets, he would’ve had a head coach just itching to bench him because he never had confidence in him. I just don’t understand why everyone doesn’t see that the Miami QB role and Chad’s role with the Jets was just far different. I’m happy for Chad, but I’m curious to see how the Great Leader will fare against Ray Lewis, Ed Reed and company. They tend to pick off underthrown passes and actually blitz more than once a game.
The argument over whether better QB play or better coaching would have won more games is a stalemate.
Could this CS have won a couple of more games with this QB? Yes.
Could this QB have won a couple of more games with better coaching? Yes.
I meant could this CS have won with better QB play? Yes.
The Jets ran a no huddle multiple motion offence 95% of the time for two years straight! The also ran it in the peseason without Favre at QB!
This year we saw this offence for 1/2 of one quarter!
Do you people watch these games??? Do you pay attention????
subway,
maybe.
but what other rational explanation is there? they’d have favre back for $13m based on performance? if he’s back, its on reputation.
we are not in practices and meetings so its tough to know whats really going on. granted there were breakdowns everywhere.
i just have a tough time making the case the jets will be signifcantly better or more stable bringing favre back. maybe its because they feel they have no better options. 10-6 and 3 int’s in a playoff game? that gets us where?
Chad will get beat by the Ravens, because his Dolphins aren’t as good a team. We know Chad sucks against good defenses, but I would believe more in him if he had the 08 Jets with him instead. As for his leadership, I remember him with his arm in a sling constantly working with the QBs when he was hurt, including extra work with Quincy Carter and was watching him jump up and down and get excited for anything positive we did in 05. Chad isn’t the physical specimen, but question his leadership and you are lying to yourself.
I’m definitely not for bringing Favre back. I thought it was worth the gamble at the time but I just don’t think he’s got enough left in the tank. I just don’t get why it’s universally determined that he would be such a great sales tool when it seems the majority of fans and media are against him.
Joe S- I missed that offense. It was less predictable.
It is a mute point, but after Brady went down and if Chad was our QB, this team could have finsh the season with a 14-2 record. This would have been our SB year with Chad at the Helm. Those who argue that with Chad we wouldn’t have been any better, they have no idea about football. They are primarily Hockey fans.
JustAGreenGuy,
I remember Chad throwing two deep bombs for touchdowns in the playoffs to Santana Moss WITH a TORN ROTATOR CUFF!
Boy you guy’s have no memories!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and Mangini let Chad play for longer than many of us thought he should have in 07. That doesn’t seem like a vendetta to me.
can a team with no biq qb improve its chances of getting into the playoffs with CP playing 16 games?
sure.
can a team get out of the conference having to beat big teams with CP at qb?
maybe, but it would be tough. lesser qb’s have, although infrequently.
but i really dont want to trash a guy who won a road playoff game and should have won 2 with a torn rotator cuff (back to in-game coaching).
Fatseca..tries to cover his ..ss, because he was one of the so called experts who advised Tanny to go out and get Favre. Now, this clown is trying to convince his audience that Miami did a good job, not because of Chad, but because of Cammarillo??!!!!!! NY, Media. and Fatseca, another WFAN clown.
JustAGreenGuy, on December 29th, 2008 at 3:35 pm Said:
Joe S- I missed that offense. It was less predictable.
This year the offence was very predictable! Why… Because it was completely change to accomadate Favre!
JAGG, a mentor and a leader are 2 different things. That Chad is a good guy and a great teammate is not under dispute. But, a great leader/motivator? The Jets were never Chad’s team. From 1998 to 2005, the Jets were Curtis Martin’s team and if you think that Chad was more of a leader/motivator than Curtis, then you’re kidding yourself. In 2006, Chad had to win the team out of training camp and in 2007 he was benched. So, I just don’t believe he was ever “the Man” like Favre was with the Packers, Peyton is with the Colts or Brady is/was(?) with the Pats.
the favre as sales tool theory is considering the other alternatives and on a tight timeline for psl’s.
think an empty stadium with 20k chanting dolphin fans had nothing to do with this all?
Who has a bigger smile today?
Ted Thompson
M Mcarthy
A Rodgers
Belichick
Pennington
Parcells
Louis -
Where on earth are we getting the money to get Asomugha?
Nikolas -
I’m no Favre fan, but if you think Chad is five wins better than him, you’re out of your mind.
Drew -
Why would Thompson, McCarthy, Rodgers or Belichick be smiling? Three of them finished 6-10 and the other is out of the playoffs too..
a fat clown who makes 7 figures and has stayed on the air for 20 years when like the rest of us, he’s right 52% of the time.
smart fat clown.
Michael Kay just interviewed Tanny and he basically said nothing though Kay grilled him and Kay came to the conclusion that the firing was Woody’s decision not Tanny’s since Tanny did nothing but praise Mangini the whole interview. But what else was Tanny supposed to say? He can’t come out and say “Mangini sucked he cost us the season we had to get rid of him” that’s just unprofessional.
Nikolas, for you to think that Chad would have performed exactly the same on the Jets as he did on the Dolphins this year, without taking into consideration the multitude of factors that went into his performance this year, and then just assume the Jets would have gone 14-2 with him shows that either A. you weren’t paying attention the two seasons prior to this to how Chad was performing with the Jets or B. you actually have no idea about football yourself. For arguments sake, I’ll give you an extra game or two, but 14-2? Come on now.
Rodgers just QB’ed a team that was 13-3 under Favre to a 5-11 record! If he doesn’t win soon, he’ll get the Danny White treatment from Packers fans…it’s never easy following a legend.
Joe B…Chad was and is more than five games better than Favre.
I want to know which other QB in this league can take a team, with the least possible talent and win the Division and have an 11-5 record. The experts had Miami to finish last or second to last in the beginning of the season!!!!
steviek- I’m missing the logic. How would having a stadium full of chanting Dolphins fans, while Favre is starting for the Jets, make Favre more valuable for selling PSLs to Jet fans?
Joe B
The Packers and their fans knew they would take a step back but were getting killed in the summer. After a 4000yrds 25+ TD season and everything is forgiven and Favre looks like a selfish coach killer
Belichick will get votes for coach of the year going 11-5 and has to love seeing what happened today.Plus his legacy was only improved by his season in NE
Nikolas – if Miami had the worst talent in the league, the “genius” Parcells never goes there. He lives for situations where he can quit/walk out on a team with expectations to cherry pick a team that has a record which is far worse than their talent – this is now the 4th time he has done that.
TimNC..in 2006, he alone took the team to a 10-6 record and won comeback player of the year.
In 2007, when your Mike Tannebaum ruined the OL, by substituting Kendall with your Adrian Clarke, Chad got injured in the very first game of the season. So fans like you, demanded an injured QB, with no OL to take you to the play-offs again?
In 2008, you made him a scapegoat, so he went to Miami and won the division with an 11-5 record.!!
The record speaks by itself!!
i think the scene at the end of the game pissed johnson off.
mangini gets fired.
so why would johnson answer that they want favre back? i take it as face value. he believes favre is their best option. based on performance i dont see how that is possible.
maybe its the publicity favre generates, not with the local beats, but with the cnn’s, espn’s and nbc’s of the world?
if they stand by favre and he does well. god bless. i hope so. i just dont understand how the team wouldn’t be better off investing the 13m per elsewhere. so provide a good reason for ownership to stand by favre at this point without citing years gone by. do we even know if johnson is dictating personnel? is the favre decision all tannenbaum? what happens with the mystery mri? who knows, but it reeks a little.
{In 2008, you made him a scapegoat, so he went to Miami and won the division with an 11-5 record.!!
The record speaks by itself!!}
Nikolas… Great Post!
When Chad was healthy and had a good offensive line and running game… HE WON GAMES! He proved it again this season!
In 2007 Chad was running for his life behind that bad line!
TIMNC – u can’t argue with nik’s logic tannengini screwed the pooch on last year by playing headgames with people so as to not pay $1 mil to a guy that both young studs (brick and mangold) was the glue that binded them the year before ..they upsetted that chemistry and when penny got hurt and clemens sorry sack was running for his life the jets were screwed ..also didn’t help that the D absolutely blew goats and liked it last year
All this talk of firing, fire Mack Rosenberg..
He writes stuff I knew four days ago he is an average fan at best without any knowledge..
What Chad did with Miami was remarkable. I mean that, but he was not in the same offense, have the same role, play on the same home field or play the same schedule as the Jets did. It’s just pure folly to assume that Chad on this Jets team would have done any better than Favre. And, Chad is no stranger to late season swoons. How about 2003 or 2004? Only difference was Chad was lucky in ‘04 and the Jets still made the playoffs.
Toon…even Parcells did not expect an 11-5 season. He thought 5-6 wins could have been a significant improvement. But why don’t you read the comments of the Miami players, of sports commentators to see what they think of Chad now and what they say for fans like you…that you cheered when he was injured and you threw him out of town!!.
Sack he played over 4 games with a torn rotators cuff in 04 and still had us a field goal away from teh AFC championship. Cut the guy a break on that one.
All the told-you-sos about Favre are getting boring. As has been pointed out, if C. Baker doesn’t fall down in Oakland we win that game. If Mangini doesn’t go for an onside kick giving the Chargers a short field when they’re up 10 maybe that game would not have been so lopsided. If Mangini goes for it on fourth-and-inches in Seattle and sets a tone or at the least, L.C. catches that fourth down laser in double coverage to extend the drive maybe a win, more especially with the former and doubtfully with the latter. But needlesss to say, even with the Int machine we should have been at least an 11 win team.
steviek- I agree, there’s more than meets the eye going on. Because it doesn’t really make sense that Favre is currently a big sell to Jet fans and it’s hard to imagine Woody and Mike T. truly believe Favre gives them the best chance to win after watching this season.
Thats why the only conclusion I can come to is they already have a heavyweight coach lined up who convinced them he can do with Favre what Mangini couldn’t.
There’s pretty much only one guy I could imagine giving them that confidence. Like, maybe a guy who took big-armed, washed-up Vinny by the collar and dragged him to the AFC Title Game.
Wishful thinking, I’m sure.
Nikolas – the fans who cheered when Chad got hurt do not deserve to be called fans.
****Tanenbaum is on WFAN right now***
Toon- I think we all agree there.
like the giants have shown the last 3 years u can win games with a strong line and good D everything else falls by the wayside ..i’m a giants fan too ..does anyone really think derrick ward is that great ..or jacobs ..no they’d be average at best without that line ..would eli be able to do what he does when he does it w/o that line ..hell no those WR’s aren’t good enough to make up for a crappy or even average line..thats what line chemistry does and thats what building on the talent on that line does ..can anybody not a giants fan name a single line man on the giants ..doubtful so its not overwhelming talent its chemistry
and this is tannenbaum really gets my ire ..he’s a star f-er look at what he did ..gholston the sexy name for pick 6 in the draft, farve, and finally faneca ..all these sexy names the stars ..99 overalls on madden ..whatever lol..the last good move he made was Thomas jones and that only came to fruition this year and the last good draft pick that wasn’t obvious (because anyone with a pulse would pick revis) was david harris ..i dunno u tell me who else should have been fired
ok ok i will also give him props on pace calvin pace was a absolute beast for the most part of this year ..still overpaid though in the bidding war
Ed L,
I’d like to see one of the Ryans for DC too. Truth is, so did Mangini. I don’t think either is ready to be Jets Head Coach. I agree with pound4pound, we need a proven winner!
Dean
Nikolas, don’t assume that because Jets fans (and there were MANY of them who are now in hiding) supported a change from Chad Pennington that they were also happy when he got hurt. The two don’t go hand in hand.
Mangini was fired because he wasn’t a good sell for PSL’s. The reason they jumped at Farve was because they needed to sell those PSL’s. Next year with the opening of the new stadium they need a coach with a little Barnum and Bailly to ramp up the enthusiasm for another sales push. Mangini made mistakes, he was too loyal to his coordinators, and he let veterans talk him into taking a softer approach.
I hope the 2.5 million severance is true, take a year off , spend time with the family, be a DC in 2010 for some team that wants to go to a 3-4. Or maybe go to college, Mangini is a teacher, and he can probably recruit, school with high academics, Mangenius to Stanford.
I think it was the right move. Mangini was clearly over his head. Did the Jets ever make an adjustment during the game when things weren’t working? I can’t remember one. If our game plan worked, then we were good. If it didn’t, then we were totally lost. This is the NFL. There are a lot of great players and coaches. If you don’t have the ability to make adjustments to what the other team does then it’s hard to win consistently. That’s exactly what happened. I supported the Favre trade because I think it was worth the risk. OK, he didn’t play that well and it was a disappointment. But I really think this was a case of the coaches not putting in the players in the right position to succeed.
B-Schott has got to get fired. I cant believe we could have favre and B-schott back!!!!
Sack:
“Coles and Jericho had a ton of drops and just never got any separation.”
Officially, Jericho had no drops at all after the NE game and other than one against the Broncos (a tough one on fourth down), I can’t remember any over the last few weeks either, off the top of my head.
Separation we know is an issue, especially deep, although the reluctance to throw the deep ball may actually be due to Favre’s shoulder which clearly hasn’t been right since the Oakland game (including during the win streak, during which the coaching staff appeared to have adjusted to that fact well, but their ultimate failing was having no plan B when teams took away the underneath stuff).
On the FAN, Tannenbaum just said that all other coaches have neither been fired not retained.
Maike can ask the same question 100 times he is getting nowhere……Tanny is giving nothing in the interview. What a suprise.
Great question by Fat Mike…You loved him and he was a hard worker and he won 2 out of the 3 years then why did you fire him? Hilarious
He was fired becasue of Favre and the last 5 games. The owner listened to the Joe Beningo’s of the world and he got fired. Case closed!!
Toon and TimNC…I agree …but that is how the media is painting us now. People who cheered their QBs injury and we were never appreciative of his talent, heart and effort. Like little people, disquised as smart analytical ..ss.
You’re right Drew. Mangini could have saved his job if he had only coached them to win.
based on this interview and all the recent reports, I get the sense that mangini was fired because they wanted favre back and favre was not going to come back if mangini was here.
Bent,
I scoured the Internet trying to find drop stats. I assume that you’re right about Jericho. Maybe I should have excluded him, but Keller, Baker and Franks all had crucial drops, along with Coles. So, if Jericho was the one reliable guy, that’s cool. Point is that Favre can’t throw and catch the ball and you agree about the lack of separation. Who knows about Favre’s shoulder. I seem to recall a number of long passes that fell beyond the WR and a couple where either Coles or Jericho pulled up instead of running all out.
This firing has Woody’s fingerprints all over it. He loves Favre and would rather blame the coach than the QB. Favre doesn’t want to play for Mangini because Mangini refused to treat him as a primma donna. And so the owner goes with the faded star.
I’m not going to defend Mangini because I know he has flaws. But he was given a tough situation — a new quarterback, the week before the season, who basically demanded to work in a different system. The Jets used a lot of motion, a lot of misdirection, a lot of hurry up. They did virtually none of that this year. Favre wanted to step back and throw. He got his way. And now it looks like he’ll be back creating the same problems next year.
And let’s stop repeating this nonesense that the Dolphins built their offense around Pennington. The Dolphins built their offense around Ricky Williams and Ronny Brown. Remember, they were losing games at the beginning of the season until they instituted the Wildcat offense. That was all about getting the ball into the hands of the strength of their offense, their running backs. It had nothing to do with Pennington.
although, Tanny said that it will be the new coach’s call (assuming Favre comes back) as whether to retain Favre or not. I was a little spooked by Tanny’s obtuse praise for Cassell.
I think they already have a coach who’s convinced Woody he can win with Favre. I don’t buy any of that look-under-every-stone-search stuff Mike T. was throwing around. After making the big, splashy move for Favre, there is no way they are going to sign some no-name first-timer. I would be shocked if it wasn’t someone like Parcells, Cowher, Holmgren.
I agree! In listening to these interviews….
A contract extention was seriously discussed when the Jets were 8 – 3 .
So the bottom line was the last 5 games… period… no matter how Mr. T tries to spin this.
I am also gathering that this was also the OWNERS DECISION to Fire Mangini. Mr T shaking in his boots agreed to go along with the owner.
Spin will not work… The owner wanted a new coach and Farve back to sell seat licensing fees and luxury boxes! I wonder who the owner has in mind! I am sure he had someone in mind in making this decision. Lets see who surfaces!
Joe
Nice to see that Nikolas is back to pick thru the leftovers…..although, if Im not mistaken, he doesn’t seem as drunk as usual. Did you spend the last few months drying up??
Joe B.
We barely made the salary cap this year. subtract favre’s 13 mil, coles’ 5.5 mil, b. thomas’ 5 mil, and baker’s 3 mil (remember he got a fat new contract), and you have room to sign asomugha, a mid-1st round pick (without a holdout), and give Leon an extension . After all the moves tannenbaum made last winter, he could make it work
I think a coach who gets nine wins out of his team when his qb throws 22 picks is better than a 9-7 record suggests. I had as many problems with Mangini as anyone, but I do believe consistency and patience is rewarded. Bill Belichick didn’t win super bowls right away, and neither did Parcells. I just hope that this decision wasn’t an attempt at appeasement to bloodthirsty fans in an attempt to sell PSLs…
If they can get Cowher, or maybe Marty, then I think we’ll be ok. Otherwise I might start thinking that this team really never will win it all. Perhaps they are a star crossed franchise after all.
I have to respond to Ian’s post.
No one likes a grammer nazi, particularly a hypocritical one. You’ll also find that even when you do manage to actually get it right no one will like you. So with great reluctance, I most dust off the ol’ red pen. An abridged list of your own grammer mistakes in your first two paragraphs alone:
1. “Especially when some of the posts are equally bad.” Sorry, mate, not a complete sentence. Should have been joined to the previous sentence with a comma.
2. You wrote “prolems.” Of course we all know what you meant, and only a d**khead would point out such things. You know what I mean.
3. You say “correct statement” when you are referring to a single incorrect word, as opposed to the a statement. Both incorrect as well as sloppy.
4. Moving along, ‘You also wrote “He should have…”‘ It’s tricky knowing where to put those nitty little commas, hey? You need one before the quote.
If your going to offer your services for “editorial assistance” it’s a good idea to first check for errors in your application.
Here’s something to think about with regard to the Chad discussion (although for the record I will never believe even the drunkest and stupidest of Jets fans cheered because Chad was injured- rather I thought it was excitement about the debut of Clemens):
All this time we thought the Jets deserved better than Chad….turns out he deserved better than us.
Good for him. I wish him nothing but the best. He was a tireless leader for us through good health and bad, wins and losses. The only QB (or pitcher for that matter) to ever return from TWO rotator cuff surgeries.
Chad deserves this success and more…the Jets on the other hand, well I’m scared to think that we deserve much much worse than 9-7 seasons in the future if Karma is any indication.
Miami won five games this season in which they mustered 17 or less points. You think Chad could’ve won that many games with the Jets this past season mustering 17 or less points?
Nikolas -
You’re dreaming if you think Chad “carried” the Dolphins to 11-5. Have you even watched them play? They have a good defense and great running backs, and they barely ask Chad to do anything except throw to the tight ens and hold onto the ball. They don’t even line him up under center half the time!
It’s very easy to say what the Jets’ record would’ve been with Chad. Tell me this: SPECIFICALLY, WHAT FIVE GAMES that the Jets lost this season would Chad have won? Maybe the Seattle game? Maybe yesterday’s game if the QB’s were reversed? That’s two. Name me three more. Now tell me this: Would Chad have won that game against the Patriots where Belichick told everyone to go deep, allowing the 3rd & 15 conversion underneath? Would Chad have thrown six touchdowns against the Cardinals? Would Chad have nailed Cotchery deep in the first Dolphins game? Yes, Favre lost us a couple of games and was terrible down the stretch, but he also won us a few games earlier in the season.
Again, I can’t stand Favre, and I’m praying that he retires. BUT FOR THE LAST TIME, CHAD IS NO SUPERHERO. He was very good for the Dolphins, but he didn’t carry them. He hit some tight ends and managed to not get in the way of their running backs and defense.
The New York Jets will regret this decision.
Mangini was not the problem, never was.
If you don’t believe me, just wait and see.
To Nick and Joe B……how does it feel? do You remeber when you were cheering his injury? He paid you back with suffering! He inflicted pain in you. Romans go back to Rome!!! And Nicky did Johny Stine divorced you?
Hey, Jets fans.
How does it feel to have your team hijacked by Brett Favre?
Me & Tanny & Woody are going shooting tomorrow, and we’re using Mangini’s face for target practice!
Season Collapse:
Favre – 60% = Was outplayed by every QB he faced down the stretch. How do you coach around 2 TDs and 9 Picks in the biggest games of the year ? You can’t !
Mangini – 30% = I thought he brought more good than bad to the table and I would not have fired him at age 38 after only 3 years (Didn’t Woodenbaum know it would take him a few years to get his feet under him like Belichik ?) but that being said a coach has to not only be Xs and Os, he’s got to inspire players. I always said under Herm that even though he was out coached most times, his guys always played as hard or harder than the other team. Can’t say it about Mangini, they were flat in too many big games down the stretch. Not easy to forgive that this year.
Coordinators 10% – Sutton was too conservative and was always at least one step behind the opponent. Schotts didn’t make the adjustments needed when Favre went in the tank in games against S.F., Seattle, Buffalo, etc.
I am trying my best to resist the urge to think that this is Woody picking Favre over Mangini. I’m hoping this is goodbye 1 of 2 this week with Favre retiring for good.
I’m in the overwhelming minority that didn’t want Chad or Favre, I wanted Clemens to get a real shot this year. If he had been given a chance we’d still have a good young coach, a 3rd rd draft pick, a clue about the future of the most important position on the field and I bet you he could have gotten us to 9-7. I’m sooooooo glad we brought the Favre circus to town. Thanks Woodenbaum !
Sack – they ran a stat during the game saying that Cotch led the league in catches without a drop, with 43. I specifically remember because he fumbled his next catch and I wrote that he was stat-cursed in owww.
His shoulder is almost certainly not right. A torn rotator cuff or labrum wouldn’t prevent you from being able to throw deep (remember Chad-Moss), but would affect the touch and accuracy if you had to excert extra effort to get it out there. That’s why although he put zip on the ball, when he did it was rarely 100% accurate (always slightly behind – on every throw over the middle, or slightly over or underthrown – on every deep ball).
Louis, I have to tell you that the moves that you proposed would not save the Jets as much money as you think.
Getting rid of Coles actually costs $6m in cap hit, cancelling out the saving (and you also have to pay for a replacement or settle with one of the backups we have now).
Releasing Favre does remove 13m from the salaries, but they were already going to have to shed players left right and center to make room for him, plus pay for his replacement (or settle for a backup) and meet all their other needs including resigning numerous free agents, plus all their rookies, plus replacing anyone else they cut to create cap space.
Cutting Baker saves 2m, cutting BT saves 500K (you have to factor in the cap hit)…and you have to factor in the cost of their replacements.
Our cap position isn’t terrible, as the Jets have numerous options on who to keep or dump, but rest assured, it’s nothing like you portrayed it and Nnamdi A is going to command 100m. Cassel will command big money too, as will Housh and Haynesworth. The Jets will simply not be a player unless they are prepared to build themselves a three to four year cap nightmare.
There simply isn’t any need to go after Matt Cassel. Put it this way- he chalked up a DYAR of 630 (17th) and a DVOA of 6.4% (20th) while playing with the best offense in the league. Those number are marginally better than Favre’s, but they’re nothing to break the bank over. I would much rather look at Brett Ratliff than spend $10 million a year for someone else’s Brett Ratliff.
In any event, it’s a moot point. Woody made it very clear that Favre will be the quarterback next year. And, for what it’s worth, I expect Favre will play better than he did this year. The circumstances will be much more favorable (well, aside from the schedule, which can’t possibly be any more favorable than it was this year).
Bent:
I guess you care a lot about the money too just like our owner! I see that you follow in his footsteps. Well all of this money backfired when the last piece of the puzzle was placed but remember that is 6 million in guarantee money. So whether we are playing him in Miami or elsewhere he is better off there!!
Bent my friend you mentioned Fonzie and what he said about Gholston in the beginning of the season however, Gholston was always on a totally different speed than the rest of the team. He was expecting Gholston to contribute significantly to the pass rush and to the defense however his progress was in the beginning stages. Tannenbaum and Mangini knew that the competition at outside linebacker was almost nothing with two highly paid linebackers already in training camp. His immediate impact wasn’t there and many people were wondering including him were wondering but he is at a different level than the team and he working within the benchmarks that Mangini and Tannenbaum gave to him when he was signed. They are not that stupid to risk a 6th round overall pick “money” and expect him to learn a new position and be successful in his first season.
In any case thats over with but Coles needs to be traded. He has dwindled in his image to the team and he is not really a team player as he pulled a page out of Terrell Ownen’s book of “Talk to FARVE not to me”. Don’t you think the team will feel better off without these two big headaches?!!
Sack- I was talking about yesterday in particular, as I was at the game and was able to concentrate on the players away from the ball. The Jets ran a lot of bunch or overload formations and generally had the single receiver on the other side open, but Favre rarely looked in that direction (he did a few times for Coles on the fourth quarter drive, but that’s about it). There were several times when Keller was clearly the least open player on the field and Favre threw it at him anyway). I appreciate that Keller is the best matchup player on the team, but that was Favre not bothering to read the defense.
This is not to say that the Jets don’t need to address the receivers in the offseason. Coles should move on and the team should try to find a deep threat to start across from Cotchery (Clowney is a possibility). Stuckey is a good player and needs to get more touches, but he and Keller were in competition for the ball all season.
seanmac – the schedule was posted here earlier. It is brutal but at least they only go West once.
Hank – If you think the Jets are better off without Coles even though it gives them $6m less to spend on their team, then I won’t argue. You may be right (although I still hold out hope that a lot of his comments are misconstrued and he is still a team guy). I was just reminding us all of the facts, one of the most important of which is that the Jets (clearly) have needs, but not a whole lot of money. And I only care about the money insofar as it affects their ability to put together a good team. Wins and losses are all that matters really, but if someone suggests something that may not be possible due to financial restrictions they may be unaware of, I will always point that out.
On Gholston, I wasn’t surprised the he didn’t develop very fast and the fact that the Jets were in contention, so couldn’t make his development a top priority (especially with – as we’ve now learned – the coach in a make the playoffs or else dilemma) was a factor. My point with Gholston was always this – if he doesn’t excel in year one, don’t rule out him making an impact the following season, which I hope you (and Fonzie) still hold out hopes for.
Ian
I have read the ex-coach called Mangina and Mangidiot on these pages. I find this childishness unacceptable and classless. I called these posts ‘garbage’ and I stand by it. As for your criticisms, one of the problems of writing for a blog is you can’t use a spell checker and then cut and paste. I use a basic text editor which, sadly, lacks a speller. For your information, though ,I do know the difference between too and two. Now you’ve read my explanation, where’s yours? MD thanks for the defense.
As for Mangini, after watching the press conference and hearing what’s been said, I’d agree that it was Woody’s firing and it may have had something to do with Favre’s antipathy to the coach. One interesting moment in the presser. I noticed that when Woody was asked if Favre would be back, he didn’t say “I don’t make personnel decisions around here. My General Manager does.” Tanny also pointed out that Mangini had two winning seasons in three years and that that was rare. Also, Woody was pressed pretty hard by the beat writers. I think his honeymoon is over.
Let’s not get too concerned over the grammar/typos. I do correct these when I pick them up. As I’m sure everyone appreciates, Bassett and most of our other writers are busy guys with jobs and families, but I’m sure that the content is always appreciated. After all, if he found out a piece of news or had a thought about an interesting discussion point but was on his way out, I’m sure you’d all rather have a quick, unchecked post now than a well thought out and correctly spelt post in six hours.
The comments around here are generally of a high standard compared with other sites of this size and we continue to foster and encourage intelligent discourse.
Honeymoon’s for owners? No such thing. What, he’s going to get run our of town, fired? Please.
If the owner is giving direction on player personnel, we’re done. That’s Cincinnati or the Dallas zoo. Hopefully, he’s brighter than that and only misspoke at a press conference which he doesn’t have much experience doing (with people like us parsing every sentence).
Seanmac, repeated he thinks Favre plays better. But the problem I have with Favre is exactly what he pointed out… absolutely mysterious decision making. Studio types talk about all receivers being in play in a given play, but obviously they are not. He locks into guys which is a mistake a young qb makes.
If Favre was hurt and it affected his deeper throws and the wrs’ couldn’t beat press coverage off the line, what exactly where the coaches supposed to do? Run every down… the wishbone?
If you could read lips after the last int, quoting every body’s favorite whipping boy coach, what is he doing?
There are HC out there as good or better as Mangini. Many more would be worse.Choose wisely.
Of course, if the owner is stepping in on personnel it deosn’t matter much. A big time coach wouldn’t take the job if he thought that.
Remember a line from Bill… let owner’s own, coach’s coach and player’s play.
I think he may well go back into his shell after the press conference. It had to be uncomfortable and Tannenbaum, while supporting his owner, didn’t fall on his sword either. We could pick over the presser ad infinitum but the bottom line seemed to be that this was Woody’s decision.
A larger issue is what this means for Tannenbaum going forward. The owner would seem to have overruled him here. This diminshes Tanny’s authority. I’m not sure what this will mean in the future but none of us wants an activist owner.
BTW, because of the back loading of Baker’s contract, he’ll cost nearly five million against the cap next year and less than a million if he’s cut. I think he’s a goner.
MANGINI WAS NOT THE PROBLEM. THIS LOOKS AND QUACKS LIKE A COUP FRM BRETT. HE DOESNT EVEN KNOW HOW TO AUDIBLE TO A RUN PLAY. JONES SHOULD OF HAD 1800 YRDS THIS YEAR INSTEAD OF 1300. YOU CANT WIN IN THE NFL THROWING MORE THAN YOU RUN. THE TRUTH IS THAT BRETT DOESNT LIKE BEING CONTROLED. HE THINKS HE’S BIGGER THAN THE GAME. WE WERE 8-3 DINKING AND DUNKING THE BALL. AND IT WAS WORKING BECAUSE THERE WAS A THREAT OF HIM GOING LONG. IF THIS IS A COUP WATCH FOR HOLGREN TO BE THE COACH OF THE JETS NEXT SEASON. AND OUR TEAM’S OWNER IS REALLY JERRY JONES IN DISGUISE. WHO THINKS HE KNOWS MORE ABOUT FOOTBALL THAN HIS COACHES. I COULD UNDERSTAND GETTING RID OF THE DEF OR OFF COACH BUT MANGINI. TOTALLY UNNECESARY!!!
BRETT DOESNT LIKE TO BE ASKED ABOUT THE OPPOSING TEAM. HE SHOULDVE BEEN QUIZED ON THE RUNNING PLAYS THAT HE PROBABLY DIDNT KNOW.
Is Woody Johnson turning into a Northern Turnpike version of Daniel Schneider? The high priced free agents, “star quarterbck”,….it does have a Washington ring to it.
Back up the truck for Cowher or go after a guy like Brian Billick.
Nothing is clear right now. Woody said he wanted Farve back. “He is a positive addition to the team” (that’s not verbatim). That’s it. Of course he’s going to say that. They already lopped one head today. They’ll wait for the MRI and bow out gracefully if they can.
They’ll go after Cowher and then he’ll say no. But think about it, do we really someone that had as much power as Holmgren’s? Granted he got to a SB and won I believe 5 NFC West titles. But that was over a ten year tenure. And in a pretty weak division (of course they spanked us this year). He wasn’t as successful as he could’ve been. Should’ve been.
A young gun coordinator is not the answer either. There are too many proven coaches out there.
Cowher, Scottenheimer, Billick, Marriucci. All would be great additions. I like Billick myself. But I digress.
We have a good solid team that needs to be built upon some more. And firing the coordinators will be a decision for the new coach. One who can make proper game time decisions and adjustments. One who can establish an identity for this team. Like a smashmouth offense. And defense that blitzes properly and pressures opposing QB’s.
I knew yesterday’s loss would be a blessing in disguise. I just can’t keep hoping for an annual sweep of the Phins anymore.
Peas.
Joe S and Steviek,
Questioning whether reason Woody still wants Farve is not all about producing income is crazy. Without a doubt we got the Bad Brett for most of the season (delusional pro-bowl pickers aside). With a new coach, bum shoulder (perhaps he can fix it), but at 40, how much does he have left in the tank? From my perspective, not much.
But I guarentee you that the Jets organziation spent a fair amount on consulting fees to assess the with and without financial equation, and Woody’s unfettered support following Farve’s performance can only suggest that having him in NY next season is cash flow and net worth positive.
Holmgren will not be back next year – looks like he will take at least a year off and probably will keep his eye on Singletary and the SF job. Marty has stated publicly that he wants no part of coming back, Cowher also appears very comfortable and is probably scared to death of working for this owner who likes to talk like the Rooneys, but acts more like Jerry Jones. Billick would be most likely, but whoever it is, it will be dissfunctional as long as 4 is in town.
I wish I could be as enthusiastic as many of you guys about the Mangini firing. His job was to put our players in position to make the plays, at 8-3 we looked like world beaters and Eric was the man. He made some bad calls like 4th and goal in Seattle but I think there is a lot of blame to go around. Now what??? Change in scheme? Toss the Roster??? What about the QB??? I doubt guys are lining up to come to NY. For me this is a sad day.
You guys are forgetting about another Brett. Get a pumped up, motivational, in your face coach and throw our young Mr. Ratliff in there. Look at the rookie track records of this year. Go figure. I was pumped up about him in the preseason prior to #4 coming into town on his white horse. Too bad it rained and the white washed off.
CLEAN HOUSE !
From Rich Cimini’s bog (authored by an assistant):
“Browns owner Randy Lerner said he will likely contact Mangini about replacing Mangini’s good friend Romeo Crennel. Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels is also on his list. Lerner was granted permission to speak to Scott Pioli, Patriots’ VP of player personnel.”
Obvious move.
Hope Mangini gets the job…and hires better coordinators. There aren’t that many talented coaches around that know the 3-4 as well as Mangini… and Cleveland has accumulated defensive players who would otherwise be misplaced in another system.
Of course, Mangini will have some explaining to do in the interview. More candor (fingers pointed) than his press conferences.
ESPN is reporting that Cowher will consider the Jets HC job. I posted before that I think Cowher will take the Jets job. His daughters go/went to Princeton, so he knows the area (as does his wife) and there’s a chance his youngest daughter will also go to Princeton. If the area is acceptable to the family, then Cowher must love the team. It’s a diamond in the rough that is close to the type of team that Cowher crafted into a consistent winner in Pittsburgh: a power running game and the raw material for a stout 3-4 defense. Look at the team up the middle on offense and defense…very powerful. And, QB is irrelevant for Cowher’s system…he won with bad QBs and won a Super Bowl with a good one. But, don’t be surprised if Schotty is kept on. Favre would need OC continuity and as long as Cowher sets the tone, I think Schotty can do the job. No more Brad Smith, a lot more TJ and Leon and a more controlled Favre, and this team can contend for a long time no matter who the QB is. More than control, I think Cowher wants an ownership willing to spend to obtain and, especially, retain core players…something the Rooneys did not do. Woody has to go through the process to interview minority candidates, but by firing Mangini today, the Browns did not have a head start on the process. Cowher is HC in the minimum amount of time possible…2 weeks?
this doesn’t really fit with this conversation, but as i’m sitting here reading these posts, i wondering, what happened to the offense from 2006?
all the pre snap adjustments and players in motion? the no huddle offense?
i guess i understand how we got away from it last year with injuries and a crap o line, but what about this year?
was favre not the right fit? if that was the case and how did it go unnoticed from day one?
this offense, well i guess the whole team just lacked constancy all year. it shouldn t have taken a genius to realize that penningtons problems were from the week one ankle injury and poor offense line.
seriously though, how many times have we as jets fans seen pennington knocked down only to rise back up? i was for this move because of the risk vs reward, but i m not as educated as the guys making decisions.
The Jets are the team of the future…and always will be. Mangini may eventually mature into a great HC, but it’s gonna take a looong time. He did not seem to learn from his mistakes during the season. He is methodical to a fault. Oh well, bring on the next savior/victim. When do pitchers and catchers report?
i think ratliff culd do the job next. He runs and throws. Taller and more athletic than Clemens! If Brett comes back he should fight for his position.
I don’t think anyone here knows exactly what part Mangini played, in running the Offense or the Defense. To say Mangini will be a good head coach one day — what could you base that on. If you are going by wins, Herm Edwards won here and made the playoffs a number of times. Great guy, great motivator, bad coach.
On defense, we switched players to run his precious 3-4, had the starting All-Pro Nose Tackle, and were afraid to bring pressure on the opposing teams.
On offense, with one of the most talent-filled line-ups in football, we were lucky to have one good drive per game.
His game-time moves, such as punting or going on fourth down, kicking an extra point or going for two points, time outs, clock management, putting the other team away when you have the lead and five minutes or less left on the clock, were mediocre, at best.
I wish him the best but, I don’t think I could watch another year of Mangini football. We are a team that is built to win right now. We need a “Head Coach”. No more learning on the job. If they even talk to Mike Tice or Brian Schottenheimer — it would be a sign that management must go, along with Mangini. We need a guy like Cowher or Gruden. Coaches with confidence, knowledge, and the ability to maximize our talent.
Ditching Mangini was a start. They bring in one of these guys, add a few more pieces to the puzzle, and == Next year is the year.
I agree that none of us can know how much of a role Mangini played. If he was an authoritarian who micromanaged the offense and defense and prevented the coordinators from being able to do what they wanted to do, then maybe they are being judged unfairly. However, if he had little to do with them, then maybe HE is being judged unfairly (although in that situation, you’d expect him to intervene when things weren’t going so well.
For that reason, I am willing to keep an open mind.
brett played like garbage after going 8-3 and its deplorable were not in it gdamit bastird horr.
Yeah, everyone’s ready to throw Bret under the bus. True he didn’t do well the last game, but why is no one holding the defense accountable. The Jets’ defense played so horribly the last few games they couldn’t stop a bunch of old ladies from driving downfield; missed tackles and so fourth. I’m not getting paid so I don’t watch games from an analytical/ satistical point of view. But holy smokes the season was decided when the defense stunk it up bad down the home stretch.