Buzz: Was Favre the Wedge, Again?
To dovetail Corey’s earlier post, it looks like Favre might be less of a bargaining chip and more of an albatross than the ownership and GM of the Jets realize, according to Brian Costello and the Post.
“After reaching out to Coach Cowher’s representatives, we were informed tonight that he is not a candidate for the position,” Jet spokesman Bruce Speight said in an e-mail.
While the Jets hoped to woo Cowher with a boatload of money, the marriage appeared to be unlikely from the outset. Sources close to Cowher said he did not want to have Favre as his quarterback, and that he also wanted to bring in people he was familiar with to handle personnel.
I think Cowher despises quarterbacks of most kinds, but 39 year old interception machines with prima donna attitudes would be more than the man is willing to live with on a day in and out basis.
The guy is going to string us for 2 months and costed us Cowher!!!! Woody and Mr T you have got to be joking. Dump him and get back to the table with Cowher before it is too late!!!
Following his late season collapse, I thought Favre would be the first to go but instead he’s becoming the rock that this franchise is breaking itself against.
All the front running so called Jet fans (and you know who you are) that worshiped Farve and wanted Mangini fired owe the rest of us fans an ap[ology. It is people like you that have cursed this franchise to the sorry ass state that is is. It is trully disgusting considering we had the greatest off season in Jets history and held such promise in July. Now, instead for showing some character and stand up, you drop off the face of the earth. Torch the franchise and run. What a disgrace.
Five months ago you had all the answers, two weeks ago you still had all the answers, what say you now ?????
Favre didn’t get EM fired. Favre has not said a word. If favre was interfering with things, we’d see or hear him speculating about his retirement right now.
Shanny milked 2 Super Bowls for ten years but the axe eventually fell, because apparently the Denver owner has some sort of common sense.
Favre has been running on only one Super Bowl 12 years ago. Wha? Take that Super Bowl season out and what is Favre – an above average career quarterback, period.
It kills me that this clown will ruin next season, and beyond.
j0e
you have got to be kidding here…..he is going to hang us for 2 months. Either he is in or out. Who would want the job not knowing what he is going to do!!!!
PS..his play bad are or not…the last 5 games did not help EM, so he had a part in it
Hank, I supported both the acquisition of Favre and the firing of Mangini, and I still stand behind my opinion. I feel at the time, based on past performance, swapping Favre for Pennington was the right move. It didn’t work out, but that doesn’t change anything about the decision that was made last August. I also felt Mangini was in over his head, and all this dribble about Cowher hasn’t changed my mind about that.
Having an opinion based on factual information doesn’t mean someone has “all the answers”. It’s pretty silly of you to think that the changes in the Jets organization have happened because of fan postings on TJB. Take a deep reath and count to 10.
They should hire Shannahan — then they’d have the greatest team ever in the mid to late 1990s.
Hey Woody – could it be that what worked for Green Bay in 1996 won’t work for the Jets in 2009? Perhaps? Maybe?
I was all for taking a flyer on Favre for a year. That year is up, and it didn’t work out. Fine. But now it is pretty obvious that it is time to move on.
Cowher’s not wanting Favre should be a hint to Woody – get rid of Favre!
Once again Favre will cost us another QB. Woody isnt it obvious that no coach wants to have Favre as your QB.
Correction: Favre will cost us another Coach.
Correction section 133: Favre will cost us our will to live.
You Jet fans are just simply out of luck.
Every decision Woody & Tannenbaum make will be in the interest of Brett Favre, not the New York Jets.
Get ready for a long off-season.
Can we dump Favre? Aren’t we on the hook for $13 mil.? People keep on saying get rid of Fvre like it’s that easy to release him without eating the money. I don’t really want Favre either, but if our choices are Clemens, Ratcliff, or drafted QB, I would rather keep Favre. If we could get Cassell or Derek Anderson than that is a little different. I think this team is built to win now and having Clemens or Ratcliff at QB is not a win now move.
Oh boy MS, now you’ve done it. You’ve mentioned the dreaded “Cassell” word and coupled that with the idea of keeping Favre rather than taking a $13 million cap hit. Don’t you know that if you have a different opinion than the majority, you can’t be a “real” Jets fan? Run and hide now…
If this franchise is to come out of this with anything less than a giant IHOP heartbusting omlet on it’s face ,it is to hire Billick. No obscure prodigy with no experience will net results in anything less than 3 years. Mean while the FO will be responsible for more losses to Penny because like complete idiots you don’t trade him out of the division. Now Mangini will win the Browns job and they will kick our tails, for the revevge factor. Get a guy in here that will kick some butt and who won’t be using his inexperience as a crutch. Once again my team has made an ass out of me for rooting for them. This team was built to win in the next 2-3 years, now see ya next decade if you hire a rookie.
Tim NC:
I disagree for two reasons:
1)The day of the internet has changed all of that. Today the fan can not only be seen (attendance) but can also be heard. Woody is 100% into marketing and I’m he or his PR advisors read the Internet fan opinions and the media does as well.
2)The problem with evaluating sports figures is that fans mostly use knee jerk emotions before considering the consequenses. If fans would have considered that Pennington was injured and played less that 50%,( AND MOST OF THEM INJURED OR RECOVERING FROM AN INJURY), of all the games since he was drafted,ealized that when he told everyone that listened that for the “first time in his carrer he was strengthening his body, NOT HIS SOULDER, and that he was changing his motion to improve velocity, then they would have realizes that this Pennington was a different much improved Pennington.
3) All summer we read about Brett Farve and his traveling show and travesty with Green Bay, and their front office, and getting the commishioner ( yes, he forced the commisioner to twist GB’S arm) and the theatrics, and all the comments good AND bad, and you looked at his record the last FIVE years, (not only last year as most fans like to piont out) and his disday to learn the play book, and his “lets just play and have butt slapping fun, etc., etc., etc., then you would have realized that he and Mangini were on a collision course and that team chemistry after Penningotn would suffer greatly.
Tim, I mean that there is so much more that my stomach trully hurts too much every time i think back to what could’ve been if Woodypecker and Tannenbaum would not have had $$$$$ and PSL’s as their primary interest. It’s a real, real shame that with the Jets and most fans THE MORE THINGS CHANGE THE MORE THEY STAY THE SAME.
I’m not interested in Cassel or Anderson, but have to admit that the extra $13m becoming available is beyond tempting.
wow golly gee, who would have known farve would be yet again lets get real and his contract prevents us from just “dumping” him plus it’d be a ugly move on our part and have bad media fallout ..well worse then we already got ..tannenbaum did this too us and we as jets fans deserve his head
August 13th…2008
Let’s strip the Brett-to-the-Jets deal of the illusions the media has wrapped it in. What we have is a 4-12 team that has signed a 38-year-old quarterback who, though he made something of a comeback last season, hasn’t otherwise finished in the top five of the league’s passers since 2001. (In 2006 he was ranked 25th; in 2005, 31st.).
From 2005 to 2007, Mr. Favre has thrown 66 touchdown passes and 62 interceptions. If any other NFL quarterback had put up those numbers, his job would be on the line; instead, the New York Jets have chosen to delay the inevitable process of breaking in a new young quarterback — and in fact have released Chad Pennington, who, according to Kerry Byrne of the Web site Cold Hard Football Facts, is “maybe the most underrated quarterback in the NFL.”
How true it is..
Where are all the Jets fans who were screaming for Favre in the offseason now? I wonder how that loudmouth Craig Carton feels. Favre cost us a season and possibly a great new head coach. But some blame has to go to Tanny and Woody, this is unacceptable.
First of all, the reason that Cowher does not want to come to New York is not because of Favre. Favre will be with the Jets for one more year, at MOST, and Cowher wouldn’t base the rest of his coaching career on one player that will be with the team for one more year. I truly believe that Cowher is just not ready to coach this year. He told his wife he’d take 2 years off of coaching, and maybe he will stick to his word. Who know…either that or the Denver job sounds more enticing…hopefully the Jets will be going after Shanahan before another Shotty, which just means the same ol’ Jets! And for all you Jets fans that blames the demise of the Jets on one player, Favre, you guys are out of your minds. Favre does not play defense, period! Favre does not miss sacks, tackles, and drop potential interceptions. He didn’t help, but it was ALL his fault. With the help of the defense and the coaching staff, we were able to fail miserably.
I hear what you’re saying Hank, and you’ve got good points. I agree that the Favre/Pennington decision was likely PSL driven, but that’s not a Jets thing, it’s a professional sports thing. Pro sports are entertainment businesses first and foremost and we fans are left behind in the thought process. Free agency, huge TV contracts, etc have taken much of the sportsmanship out of sports. It’s a fact we just have to live with.
I can only speak for myself when it comes to Pennington. I absolutely loved him as a person, a team leader and a motivator. But my concerns about Chad go way back. Statistics aside, I watched far too many Jets games, even before his injuries, where he just couldn’t get the ball there. I personally felt that he had taken the Jets as far as he ever would. Maybe I’m wrong, I guess we’ll never find out.
Admitting I dunno the salary cap implicitations of getting rid of Favre (and I’m guessing Mr. T. could think of a way not to make it too horrible) I’m still for getting rid of Favre.
Why? Because QBs exist to win Super Bowls, not to have winning seasons. Based on Favre’s performance over the past five years, we know Brett Favre will never again win anyone a Super Bowl.
Ratliff and Clemens – I’d be stunned if they won a playoff game next year, much less a Super Bowl. But in the future, is there a 1 percent chance one of those gentlemen could win a Super Bowl? Absolutely, maybe even a little better than one percent ;)
We need to move on, and Clemens/Ratliff/drafting a QB would move us closer to winning a Super Bowl at some point.
Favre in ‘09 would put us close to 9-7/10-6/December heartbreak/ESPN cheerleaders telling us how lucky we are to be watching Brett Favre.
TimNC:
I’m sorry if it appears that I’m beating this issue into the groung but as you can probably tell I’m angry as hell because it trully hurt the team deeper than people think. However, you are right about the business side of sports but not all franchises think that way ( Islanders anyone) and when we think of sports as only this and entertainment then we have lost the true value the escence ie, competion, courage, gut wrenching emotion, childlike enthusiasm, loyalty out of if and replaced it with primadonas with $$$$$ as their main interest.
Some great post today…
I to believed the Farve move was the correct one at the time. This team was built to win now. I knew Penny was going to win out in pre-season but not sure how far he could take us. The Farve move at the time seemed rignt.
I agree it was not all his fault and the blame can be spread around to many…but it is time to move on.
If he is going to come back than say so…do not let this thing drag out. It is already hurting the locker room. either he is in or out…If in than start the rehab and show you are committed…
Why would we want Shanny? His drafting and player personnel decisions over the last decade have been atrocious. He overpays for has beens, cannot draft, and goes through defensive coordinators like toilet paper. Getting a so-called HC with experience is overrated, look at Harbaugh with the Ravens, Smith with the Falcons, and Sparano with the Fins this year, all first year coaches going to the playoffs.
I would much rather have a guy like Spags, Ryan, or even Frazier, than a damn Schottenheimer or Shanny. You know what you are getting with Schottenheimer, good regular season and choking in the playoffs; with Shanny, a great offense but a porous defense and we know thats like because all of us have seen it the past 5 weeks.
swizzle81:
I was leery of, but supported the Favre deal. It was a cost-benefit analysis. The potential to actually have a prolific offensive player at QB on the JETS was simply too great of a potential benefit.
The cost? I would have to disagree that swapping Favre for Chad cost the JETS the season, for the following reasons:
(1) If they kept Chad, guess what? Tony Sparano, Bill Parcells & Co. would not be in charge. Man-Idiot would be his coach, Schotty his O-Coordinator, and Sutton his D-Coordinator. Those guys in Miami did a tremendous job in utilizing Chad’s talents, in a way in which I don’t think we’ve seen since the days of PAUL HACKETT (I think he did a very underrated job of using Chad’s strengths, by the way).
(2) I doubt that the JETS, with Chad at the helm, would have won the Tennessee and New England (in NE) games, and definitely not the Cardinals game. That is 3 right there I think Favre “won” for the JETS that Chad would not have (credit must also be spread elsewhere for those victories of course).
(3) I doubt that the JETS would, with Chad at the helm, been immune from “Same Old JETS” games like their dreaded West Coast trips this year. Would Chad have won 1 or 2 of those games? Maybe. MAYBE. But only someone doing some revisionist history would say that the JETS never had games like against the Raiders, Chiefs, Seahawks et. al. while Chad was the QB.
(4) The “Wildcat” offense can probably be credited with as many wins as Chad. Miami’s best offensive players, and its MVP, are its running backs (and maybe Jake Long and that young Center). Chad definitely deserves appreciation and all the credit in the world for his performance, and deserves to enjoy his “day in the sun” for knocking out the JETS in the last game of the year, but he is what he is.
Finally, I will say now what I’ve always said about Chad:
AWESOME MAN, a role model for all young athletes and students, etc. I’d put him in the “good” category at QB, certainly above average in his usual year. However, I thoroughly believe that he needs an elite defense AND running game (e.g., a running game like they had with Curtis Martin when they almost beat Pittsburgh but-for missed field goals) to win the Super Bowl. I remember watching so many playoff games with other teams playing, watching a Ben Roth or even a D. McNabb rifle a ball into tight coverage and always wished the JETS had a QB who could do that against an elite defense. Acquiring Favre was taking a shot at winning the Super Bowl. The typical Chad year, when the team is good, is a good year, albeit one with very little realistic Super Bowl expectations.
*With the whole Chad-Kellen Clemens saga (pre-Favre-trade) I predicted that the JETS would show dramatic improvement, get to about 8-8, and have something to look forward to for 2009.
I will not apologize for being wrong about something, nor will I ask others to apologize for being (at least temporarily) for being all excited about Gholston when I was a hater from day 1. Over time, if you’re honest, no one here has a crystal ball and we are all probably right about the JETS’ decisions about half the time!
Pennington has his faults. Mangini has his faults. Neither are perfect. But they are both loyal, dedicated and give everything they got for their team. Yes, their team. We got rid of both of them, and instead are intent on keeping a quarterback who cares only about himself, and God forbid he should have to work out or study or put in any effort beyond going out there on Sundays and chucking the ball whenever he feels like it.
You can argue all you want about individual skill, but everyone who follows any sport knows that the best TEAM wins, not the best collection of talent (ask a Dallas fan, if you disagree). Well, everyone except Jets management, I guess.
DSmizzle:
As usual all Farve supporters base their arguments on negativism and suppositions, what could’of, would’ should’of. Lets look at what is:
1)The Jets were dysfunctional on offense ’till the end.
2)The clubhouse was NOT as united as we were lead to believe.
3)Farve did not, could not, would not learn the total amount of plays (never read a play book in my life) allowing the offense to be scripted.
4)Woodypecker/Tannenbaum will beg Farve to come back( they have said so) and fired Mnagini for it.
5)The sorry ass state of the franchise is is now after all the Farve worshipers/Blame the coaches got their wish.
My only Suggestion is look arround, look at what you see now and think back to July.
Be carefull what you wish for, you may get it.
DSmizzle, all good points and I agree with some, I was just trying to point out the ones who wanted to throw Chad under the bus for Favre.
With that said, I agree if the Jets kept Chad they would not have been better off, probably would have finished with the same record. Teams would have stacked the box with 8-9 guys and the rushing offense would not have been as prolific as it what, when used. I guess my point was, this would have been the perfect year for the Jets to try either Clemens or Ratliff out because there was a good nucleus around them and there was no need for a turnover prone gunslinging QB.
I’m so Fn tired of all of you Favre haters. For one thing hes the greatest QB to ever play in NY. Secondly, Last year he had his team in OT against the SB Giants in the Championship. He arrived in NY late in the preseason to learn a completely new Offense, teammates, move his family learn the area get mobbed by media. He was also obviously hurt at some point in the season. Which brings me to.. WTF are any of you doing in your lives that you can talk smack about a HOF QB. I mean absolutely NONE of you have any right to berate or even insinuate that Favre is no longer good.
I loved Penny but like other great players, he was unable to fulfill this teams goals. There was actually a report somewhere early in preseason that said Pennington had a 25% chance of playing the whole season without injuries. I believed it and still believe it.
Our fan base is the reason we got Penny removed from NY – just ask Woody. And it’s not surprising that Cowher is turned off by the media in NY as well. The Jets fans create a cesspool of negativity and failure and its only a matter of time before our team falls in.
In closing give me Favre at 100% over 22 – 23 qb’s in this league.
god i hope shanahan comes to the jets as no more then an offensive coordinator ..of course ego dictates that he has to control all the pieces but seriously aside from jay cutler most of his draft moves sucked and as a head coach he’ll yearn for that control he once had ..bad karma ..but stillu gotta recognize his talent he IS still one of the best as far as game planning goes and using the pieces he has on offense to make it work and as crappy of a team as they were this year the broncos still had an ok record while using 25th string running backs and backups filling this spot or that on offense and defense ..i know he’ll never go back to just being an OC but if he did that teams offense would be a beast no matter who u had on it
“Admitting I dunno the salary cap implicitations of getting rid of Favre (and I’m guessing Mr. T. could think of a way not to make it too horrible)”
The cap implications are simple. If he plays next year he will get a salary of $13m. If he is cut or traded (or retires) then there is no cap cost whatsoever.
greengoo – most of us aren’t farve haters most of us are grounded here in reality and although we love farve and respect everything he’s done we all need to come to the realization that he’s done ..also do we really want to wonder if he’s coming back for as long as it takes him to retire ..as a jets fan its our right to know what direction this team is going well before the draft and free agency ..and that means brett needs to give us the yay or nay on the retirement issue and we need to have coaches set and ready to draft ..i’d love to have brett back but at the same time i just feel he’s done mentally and possibly physically…
You happy Woody? You wanted to put asses in the seats. Now because of your underestimation of Jet fans’ intelligence (you think we need a big-name quarterback even if he sucks), you missed your chance at a coaching legend.
So then your making excuses now, for him throwing to the other team 22 times, most of which were his fault and had nothing to do with his now injured arm, just horrendous decisions. No one can question that he is a HOF QB, but remember this also, he holds the all-time record for INT’s, and one could argue that he single handidly led to the Jets collapse at the end of the year. His 5 game line again: 2 TD’s , 9 INT’s. No longer good is right, he led the league in INTS for godsake, last time I checked that is not the definition of a good QB. Old washed up QB, should have stayed retired, period.
Greengoo
100% what year? Yes he is a HOF but like all HOF’ers, he is finished. Hank is 100% correct in his 5 points.
Again if he is coming back, than say so. Simple to do, if he is a team player and not just thinking of himself..
hank/naples:
We are ALL speculating (including you). You are speculating that Favre “ruined” the season, meaning you think the JETS would be 10-6 or better with Chad, and would have won the division (meaning Chad would have had to win all of those games Favre was able to win with the JETS that I mentioned above [NE, TENN and ARIZ]).
Wanting change at QB is not “throwing Chad under the bus”. It is a desire based upon observations of the man’s limitations, and a belief that he had taken the team as far as it would go.
that was a reponse to GreenGoo, sorry forgot to include that
Bent – if you are correct, then why would anyone want to keep Favre next year.
$13 mil on a 40 year old QB? In what universe is that justified?
That kind of scratch could buy 3 or 4 good linemen next year.
Favre is easily becoming my most hated jet ever.
90’s: I am 100% certain.
I guess their only reasoning must be either (a) they believe he can play to a standard that justifies such a salary – and that his failings this year were due to injuries, unfamiliarity and a system that wasn’t ideal for him (b) they don’t actually want him back but expect him to retire and therefore are giving him the chance to do so with dignity rather than throw him under the bus or (c) it’s all about the money (although if Woody thinks having an apparently washed-up Favre will sell more tickets than a younger guy with potential, I believe he may be off the mark).
Dsmizzle:
You must not be reading my posts or just ignoring them (like most Farve worshipers).
I gave you (5) Facts, you are giving speculation.
Bent, I think Woody is doing it for point (C), he has this grand illusion of an old washed up QB selling tix and PSL’s while not keeping in mind whats actually good for the team. Now that he has been spurned by Cowher maybe he will realize and wake up this morning that the Jets do not need Favre. Although point (a) is valid too, he showed no signs down the stretch or for good lengths this year that he is capable of doing so.
90’s – to woody and tanny it appears to be all about asses in the seats then fielding a quality built team ..we all have to face facts the attitude in the FO and ownership changed at some point after last season or the season before and it became all about drumming up media hype and ticket sales and thats why they were pushing kendall out the door, thats why chad was being shuffled out (and the fans perception of him..some fans that is) they knew they haven’t drafted well enough to cover their asses and they also know that for some reason the jets have the same stigma that the fins, lions, browns, and other crappy teams have attached to them and players are less inclined to play for us
hank/naples I will respond to those points.
hank/naples wrote:
***As usual all Farve supporters base their arguments on negativism and suppositions, what could’of, would’ should’of. Lets look at what is:***
***1)The Jets were dysfunctional on offense ’till the end.***
No, the JETS offense was dysfunctional AT the end, i.e., the final 5 games. Prior to that, it was either doing its job or even excelling. Your statement makes it appear as though they weren’t in a very nice groove when they were 8-3 (3 games past the half way mark).
***2)The clubhouse was NOT as united as we were lead to believe.***
I didn’t think they were united in the first place. In fact, not being a member of the team, and with Mangini being so tight-lipped, no one really knows what that was like. I also remember there being pro-Chad players in the locker room (e.g., Coles) and a Kellen Clemens crowds (so that type of thing existed before Favre).
***3)Farve did not, could not, would not learn the total amount of plays (never read a play book in my life) allowing the offense to be scripted.***
I will of course concede the point that Chad’s strength was his preparation and Favre’s strength is his physical ability. However, that statement is clearly an exaggeration. No matter how strong your arm is, you have to know the playbook to win a Super Bowl and throw for the most TD’s and yards ever. That statement might be indicative of a poor attitude about preparation, but it shouldn’t be taken literally to mean he doesn’t look at the playbook and know the plays (particularly when in the same system for more than a week and a half of training camp!).
***4)Woodypecker/Tannenbaum will beg Farve to come back( they have said so) and fired Mnagini for it.***
This may very well be the case. As you know, I don’t see this as a problem, as I believe Favre is their best option to win next year and while I wanted to keep Mangini, clearly there was at least a plausible case as to why they should move on.
***5)The sorry ass state of the franchise is is now after all the Farve worshipers/Blame the coaches got their wish.***
The franchise was 9-7 last year after an epic collapse, and at one point (after the halfway point and before the collapse) was considered a team with enough talent to be a Super Bowl contender. This was a 5-game improvement from the prior year. They’ve increased their talent level and have a good mixture of veterans and young talent and a few playmakers (e.g., Revis, Leon and hopefully Rhodes does it next year like he in the years before last year). There are some serious holes (CB opposite Revis) but every team has holes to fill in the offseason. I don’t know if this is accurately dubbed a “sorry” franchise.
Finally, YOU DID NOT PRESENT A SINGLE FACT ABOVE! Those are opinions and your speculation about things such as the locker room atmosphere and how much Favre actually looks at his playbook (according to you, he just went out there without ever knowing a single play from the JETS playbook; and yes, I know your statement, even if it came from his mouth, wasn’t meant to be taken literally).
BUT THOSE WEREN’T FACTS!!! A fact against Favre would be citing a statistic, like his INT’s, not the type of thing you were writing.
I would take Woody’s and Mike T’s endorsement of Favre with a grain of salt. First, they may be laying the ground work for a face-saving Favre exit (stage left). They know that while Favre hems and haws over the next two months they will be busy frying the bigger fish. It would not be surprising to see him talked about and lauded a little less with each passing week. And, as it does, their consideration of his return will broaden and become increasingly objective.
Secondly, the Favre question will be put to all incoming interviewees and the answers, which will be mixed at best, will have an impact on their ongoing assessment — say what you will, but they’re not idiots.
They don’t realize much…these guys rebuilt a team to run the ball in the northeast in december, with a QB who won’t turn the ball over, and at the last moment changed philosophy and got a gunslinger, with a reputation for flinging the ball down the field, to not hand the ball to Leon washington. Forty Years of this crap…I’m close to not caring any more… Congratulations Chad … new part time fish fan.