Buzz: Coaching Carousel Coalescing?
Mike Lombardi from National Football Post has some notes today that might be of interest to the Jets.
I hear the Broncos were not enamored or impressed with Steve Spagnuolo and he does not seem to be the frontrunner. However, they were very impressed with Josh McDaniels of the Patriots, and he might be the favorite now. The Broncos might be on a fast track to hire a coach this week. Moving up the Raheem Morris interview means they might want to move quickly.
The real damning piece for Spags chances in Denver is the rush to get Raheem Morris in the door, a Rooney Rule coach. If Spags was the choice, then there would be no rush to get anything done since they couldn’t do anything while the Giants are still in the playoffs.
For the “Spag Hags” out there, this might be good news for the Jets front office if they want Spags and if the Jets biggest competition for the coach in question is truly looking in another direction. Spags might truly be having a tough time with polishing himself up for these interviews, but if onfield results are the most important thing, then Spags might be more darkhorse than frontrunner now.
I hear – and keep hearing – it is Eric Mangini’s job in Cleveland, and he is already assembling a staff.
No names tied to this on NFP, but the names that had come to my mind for me are: Bill Callahan, Brian Daboll, Dan Quinn, Bryan Cox, Noel Mazzone, Jerome Henderson and Jim Herrmann, all assistant or position coaches. On Cimini’s blog, he sees Callahan as a likely coach to bolt.
36 Responses to Buzz: Coaching Carousel Coalescing?
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JustAGreenGuy says:
What goes around comes around.
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Razor Shines says:
That Spags had a hard time multi-tasking this week is good news for the Jets, but better news for the Eagles!
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*good news for Jets who want Spags
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ian says:
i’m not so hot on spags. some amount of his success, like rex ryan, is due to the talent he has playing for him.
last year spags had strahan, osi, and tuck as DE’s with three very good DT’s. this year he still has tuck and kiwi as DE’s, but sacks are down and so is the defense as a whole–is he worse this year? no, his players are.
look at ryan. in part, he is able to run complex defenses because he has a crazy 350 pound DE/DT, haloti ngata, who can drop back in zone pass coverage with decent skill, ray lewis who can play well in a 3-4 and shine in a 4-3, and ed reed, the best free safety i’ve ever watched.
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And the other part of why he can run complex defenses is because he is smart. Smart people coaching good players seems like a good combination. You usually can’t win with just one, so let’s get Ryan and hope Rhodes and Jenkins and Pace, et al have the types of seasons that will be the other part you mention.
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JtotheEtotheTtotheS! says:
Still going to say Billick!! We need a HEAD Coach not an X and O guy…
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Joe S. says:
Spags will be a FLOP as a HC!
I don’t want him coaching the Jets! If the Jets hire a Giant coach… I am done as a Jet Fan and a Season Ticket holder!
I will move on with my life!
I want Rex Ryan for HC of the Jets!
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nyckage says:
Did we get permission to speak with Josh Mcdaniel.
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sec108 says:
nyckage,
I’m pretty sure the jets are done with hiring inexperienced young coaches from New England. Call it a hunch.
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Rich Kotite says:
Ian,
Look at the stats how can you say the Giants have a worse defense this year? PPG has gone down..
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Rich K: points per game is not the end all be all of statistics. if a defense gives up two TD’s in garbage time during a blowout, does that count more than a field goal in a close game?
moreover, i think the giants might have let up a lot more points early last year while strahan was working his way back into shape–the giants defense down the stretch during the last few games of the regular season and the playoffs last year was certainly better than the defense has been this season.
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Rich Kotite:
I just did what you said and looked at the very stats you cited. During the 2007 (regular) season, the Giants defense gave up 23.3 points per game. During the 2008 season, that number increased to 26.7. (The number of sacks also decreased from 53 to 42.) So your statement is wrong even using your own silly criteria which doesn’t account for strength of schedule or game situations (points per drive is a better number than points per game, as defenses that are beseiged by turnover prone offenses will always give up more points).
In short, when you tell me to look up the stats, perhaps you ought to do so yourself. Check out nfl.com/stats
Anyway, the larger point is that with a small sample size–ie only a few years of coaching–it is hard to tell whether a unit’s success is due to coaching, personnel, or both.
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SackDance99 says:
My problem with Spags is that if he runs the 4-3, the whole defense has to be blown up and the Jets don’t have enough cap room to bring in the right players. Ellis, Jenkins and Mosely could all easily play in the 4-3, but RDE is the hardest to find and most expensive defensive player. Who would be RDE? Coleman shows no ability to be a 10+ sack guy, VG hasn’t shown that he is an NFL player, Pace failed at 4-3 DE. So, it would be BT, who is not exactly Dwight Freeney. Unless we think DeVito will be the next Jared Allen.
The LBs would be worse. I’d put BT on the line, leaving Harris at MLB (and he may be too slow) and Pace at LOLB (I know he’s too slow) and VG at ROLB (and I don’t know if he’s NFL caliber). All 3 LBs would potentially have to be replaced. The Jets secondary is equal, if not better, than the Giants, so I don’t think that’s a problem.
If we want a 2-3 year rebuilding project on defense, then Spags is the guy. I really don’t want to see that and seeing the Jets defense get worse under Spags won’t sell PSLs.
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Joe B. says:
Joe S. is the biggest drama queen on this site. And that’s saying something.
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Also, Mangini to Cleveland is exactly like Kotite going to the Jets from the Eagles. Kotite had early success with the Eagles and even made the playoffs his second season (1st 2 years 21-11, with a playoff win), then an 8-8 season, followed by a 7-9 season. That’s when he’s hired by the Jets and the wheels come off. Mangini goes to the Browns because the owner falls in love with him after a collapse made with 7 Pro Bowlers. He starts off 10-6 and ends with a 13-19 record in his final 2 seasons. Good Luck Cleveland! Didn’t you learn anything after stealing Bud Carson from us?
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ridinmywave says:
Ryan looks like a more logical choice, style wise nd intensity wise…..butno offense, why in the hell would we want spags as our hc? You wanna attribute the success of the giants defense, but that was run sritctly in a 4-3 defense and that’s ALL he knows, since he’s been coaching. And ryan has been doing it longer and more effective than sapgs, so what in the hell would we benefit from spags being our HC?….don’t wanna be negative, but I don’t see any sense of logic in it. And once again, no offense to spags, I think he’s a great guy, and he does his job well, but not a fit for the jets WHATSOEVER!
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JesusRevis says:
Basset – Can we get some sort of Free Agency preview? Maybe a list of players who will be free agents this offseason, possible salaries, players possibly to be traded, stuff like that.
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Hey sack- Favre shouldn’t have been a probowler. That brings it to six. Other than Revis what probowlers weren’t on the O line or ran behind it? The collapse wasn’t just Mangini. He wasn’t playing QB. I lived in Philly for Kotite and moved back for his Jets days they aren’t comparable.
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Im so tired of reading about coaches. Rex Ryan seems like the only logical candidate. We have players that are suited for the 3-4 so why not continue with the 3-4? Dont you all remember when we brought Mangini in and it took 3 years to convert our D from a 4-3 to a 3-4? Why do that again? The Jets need Ryan. Spags will be a disaster, Billick could be successful as long as the Jets hired a fiery 3-4 minded defensive coordinator. Other than that, the Jets NEED Rex Ryan.
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JAGG, Jenkins made the Pro Bowl, too. I went to grad school in Philly, went there regularly during the 90s and had Jets season tickets. The situations are eerily similar. In fact, Kotite had an excuse that Mangini didn’t have, age and a tightwad owner caused the team to lose quality players and Cunningham was regularly injured.
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lou says:
I have not posted on this coaching changes yet but I was pretty ticked off when they let Mangini go. Not necessarily because I thought he was our saviour but more because the JETS did not plan on already having someone in mind to fill the position… They are shooting blanks hoping they catch a coach. I would have prepared more before letting him go… now we are stuck with this fiasco…
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Bent says: I think Coleman and Devito would probably play the tackle position in a 4-3 anyway, Sack, especially Spags’ system.
It’s a fast strongside OLB they’ll need most if the Jets do end up in that system. Everyone else should be capable of contributing in some way. I don’t see the same level of upheaveal as there was going from Herm to Eric.
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Bent says:
lou, someone else made the very salient point that Mangini was in the final year of his contract, so was either going to have to get an extension or they would risk losing him (with no compensation) at the end of 2009 if he had a good year. I guess they had a bunch of candidates in mind, felt comfortable with Schott for a year as a placeholder if all else failed and therefore, they had to get the process underway as soon as possible.
I don’t know if it was a mistake. If a playoff spot would have garnered him an extension then I am troubled by the fact that a few bounces or calls here and there would have landed us in that position, which makes me think they were never 100% sure of the correct decision and let fate decide for them.
A change of scenery and a fresh start will do the guy good. The Jets have hired both good and bad coaches in their history, so let’s hope this time is the former.
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jim says:
lou..and others….why exactly is this a fiasco?
cowher didnt want the gig…shanahan may…
the jets have a list of qualified candidates who they are going to THOROUGHLY go through before they hire anybody…when they hire someone it will be who they feel is the right person…rushing into this, now that would be a fiasco…
btw, i’m for rex ryan, or shanahan if he brings in a solid d coordinator..which is a big if
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Pete57 says:
Jim, good points. Anyone notice that no other HC’s have been hired yet? You just can’t fire someone and have the new coach introduced the next day. They have to go through the interview process. Have patience. Good things come to those who waite
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The Ed(itor) says:
If they are under contract, they can’t leave. But I would let Schott and Sutton go in a heartbeat.
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Nick says:
Schott still having his job is the real stinky fish in this barrel. I wake up with night sweats dreading him as the HC.
Not to sound like Joe S……but if he is hired i predict the shutting down of TJB in a years time!!!
lol
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cbiscuit says:
Is anybody talking about Jim Harbaugh – the current Stanford HC – as a possible candidate for the Jets? I’m not keen on another young guy, but I hear football guys gushing about this dude.
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THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO DNT INTERVIEW WELL. HOW DID HE GET HIS JOB THAT HE HSNOW? WHAT DID THE GIANTS SEE IN HIM THAT NO ONE SEES NOW?
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Bent, who are the RDE and OLBs in a 4-3 for the Jets? Plus, I keep hearing how Spags 4-3 is different; yet, his DTs are 6-4 over 300 lbers and his DEs are tall and @ 275 lbs. That’s pretty traditional. I know he likes more athleticism from his DTs, but Jenkins has great quickness for a 300 lber, as does Mosely (I think we agree that Pouha has no place in the Spags 4-3). So, they would be the logical DTs. Ellis and Coleman are both a bit heavier and slower than either Tuck or Kiwanuka. So, I think that’s where the problem lies. Ellis is a good pass rusher, so Spags might want him to drop some weight and play LDE…but only BT, who would have to gain 10 lbs comes close to the Tuck/Kiwanuka package. DeVito can play DT, but I’m not sure about Coleman, despite his size. Maybe Coleman drops 15 lbs and gets quicker for RDE? In any event, the front 7, which was coming together, would be in major flux. Plus, while I think a front 4 of Ellis, Mosely, Jenkins and BT/Coleman would be very good against the run, I’m not sure they would generate the type of pass rush that fuels Spags’ D. For that, he would really need a stud RDE.
Harris could play MLB, but the Jets’ OLBs are too big and slow for the 4-3…for instance, Wilkinson at WLB is only 230 lbs!!! Pace and BT are 30-40 lbs heavier than their Giants counterparts. Are you ready for Cody Spencer and Jason Trusnik as the starting OLBs? And, what do you do with Pace and Bowens? IMO, bring in Spags would be a massive cluster-frack for the D.
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dognamedrevis says:
Some seem to be upset that we let Mangini go without any viable plan in place.
I have a scarier thought. We had one all along….Shotty.
Just a gut instinct, but I think he’s been the choice all along and they are trying to figure out the PR regarding “selling” it to the fans.
Funniest line I’ve heard in a long time on previous post was that he had interview at 4:00p.m. with Woody, but thought he’d trick him up by showing up at 6:00p.m.
Don’t remember who said it, but that’s just hilarious… -
Bent says:
Sack, I agree that Spags’ scheme would acquire a bit of tweaking. Stubbornly sticking to an identical system to the one he has in place now would be a disaster.
Let’s look at a normal 4-3 first. The personnel here would be Jenkins plus either Pouha, Devito or Coleman at DT. At defensive end it would be from Gholston, Thomas, Pace, Ellis and Bowens. The linebackers would have to be Harris and then maybe Kassel and Trusnik.
(Note: I am ignoring the free agents: Barton, Murrell, Spencer for the time being).
Now, turning to the Spags scheme: I agree that Mosley wouldn’t be a bad idea alongside KJ if resigned. Also, Murrell could be good at OLB in that system. Your defensive ends would probably come from the same pool as above, although one of them could also play outside linebacker (as Kiwanuka has done at times for the Giants). I agree that this means the other linebacker would need to be someone brought in, because they would need someone with sideline to sideline speed.
Since Jenkins is way bigger than either of the Giants DTs (who are smaller and quicker and look to shoot gaps), I’d imagine that this is where the system would be tweaked so that maybe they could get away with a weakside DE that had less size (if Jenkins does more taking on of blockers than anyone does in the Spags scheme). I also think that Ellis, while he lacks the athleticism of Tuck, could be effective anywhere on the line, including at tackle alongside KJ, shooting gaps as Jenkins creates space (similar to how Haysneworth played this season).
Ideally, yes, we need an elite pass rushing DE (which is always the case for a 4-3 and one of the reasons that the cap cost of the front seven in a 3-4 is lower) and if VG doesn’t shock us all and become one, it’s difficult to see how that would happen, but if guys like Dave Ball can be effective in spot duty in a 4-3 system with a dominant tackle, then this front seven could be productive…maybe.
We must address that fast linebacker who can cover need though – regardless of the scheme next year. Just don’t get a guy who is too small if you’re going to stay in the 3-4!
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Ian,
I see the GIANTS giving up 18.4 PPG in the Regular Season for 2008, down from 21.9 2007.
Yes, I am looking at nfl.com/stats.
Let’s not get bogged down into strength of schedule, game situations, weather conditions, etc , etc ,etc.
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jas says:
If Dog is correct and Shotty was the plan all along then we need a real explanation of the three years. Remember the 1st year was cutsy cutsy crap to buy time against a cupcake sched.
If he was the choice what was Favre and Mangini doing here at all?
I still say, has everyone actually watched the games? Poor schemes, poor play calling, poor use of players (LEON) and on and on. When receivers rarely get open that is as much scheme and play calling against ACTUAL defenses. We had none of that. Look at MIami-Ginn and Camarillo-they got open all the time. KC only had Bowe and he was open all the time.
Frankly, none of this makes any sense and we really need to get to the bottom of all this swirling info.
Meantime, it is truly sad.
I’d be pretty annoyed if all those coaches left.