Audible: Do You Trust Tannenbaum & Woody?
One of the oddest, most unsettling quotes to me from Erik Boland’s article on Mike Tannenbaum’s hesitance in today’s Newsday was about Mike Tannenbaum and something that might be bubbling to the surface in Tannenbaum’s tenure now that his posterior is exposed to those cold New Jersey winds:
Tannenbaum, the league source said, is strongly considering giving the nod to Schottenheimer but is mindful of what the reaction of the media and, most important, the fans would be.
“Mike has been more sensitive to the media and fan reaction than he has been,” the source said.
And if this quote is true, then here’s the smoking gun that Mike Tannenbaum is more concerned about either keeping 1) his power base or 2) his gravy train alive than seeing the Jets succeed.
I personally think Schottenheimer would be a terrible pick and the organization would have to earn my trust, but if Schottenheimer was truly the best candidate in Tannenbaum’s mind, then fine, strap on a set of balls and make the move and tell us peasants why Schottenheimer is the right move for this team and then stand back and let him succeed.
Winning is the best form of business growth in sports, so if Schottenheimer is the right move, then let the fans come begging and scraping back. The truth is that Tannenbaum knows he’s at the precipice, he knows what’s at stake, his future in the NFL. He needs to stake his reputation on someone he trusts to do the job, not someone he thinks the fans like best. Sometimes the man can be too Machiavellian for his own good.
It’s a quote to which I’m just not sure how respond. On one hand we fans want the team to take our input unlike someone like Matt Millen in Detroit, but on the other hand the last thing that you want to hear (even from an anonymous source) is that your team’s GM is worried about what the fans think of him.
Seeing this (but keeping in mind it’s an anonymous source) does this confirm/change your mind in terms of the stewardship of our team in the hands of Woody Johnson and Mike Tannenbaum? Do you trust the Jets top dogs?
Filed under: Audible, Main Page
Anonymous source=non news. Wake me up when Tannenbaum makes a quote like that or someone that is willing to put there name behind it. Otherwise this is a non story.
According to Francessa, the Jets are not making any decisions in the next few days. To me that means Spags is not our #1 guy. I’m almost worried that if Baltimore wins again that we will be stupid and hire Schott rather than wait.
I don’t trust Woody or Tanny.
They are cut throat businessmen with insatiable greed.
Screw both of them, this team will never win as long as Mr. Johnson & Tannenbaum run this team, I don’t give a damn who is our coach.
MS they have schotty captive … there’s no reason to hire him in fear.
“I don’t trust Woody or Tanny.
They are cut throat businessmen with insatiable greed. ”
I agree with all of that, but I don’t care about how snake like they are. They better get a winner on the damn field.
I don’t trust either one of them. Tannenbaum is not operating from confidence, experience or football smarts. He is operating from fear, as in fear for his job. He does not have the clout of a Ron Wolf, or Bill Parcells and will make decisions that he feels will be in his best interest (his employment), not whats best for the Jets Football team.
He is operating from fear because he knows that if he gets fired he may never be a GM again, maybe just a cap specialist for some other team.
Tannenbaum should be mindful of what the media and the fans think about Schottenheimer. His job security depends on this hiring.
I, for one, would be sick to my stomach. Hiring Schottenheimer would be as stupid as the Browns hiring Mangini. All you have to do is watch films of the Jet games, to see one of the worst coaching performances in our history. Don’t tell me about our record. With our talent, we should have went deep into the playoffs. How do you hire a guy as head coach who just came off two horrible years as Offensive Coordinator.
Schottenheimer cannot blame anything on Mangini. He had a solid O-line, a league-leading rusher, the best thrid down back in the league, an All-Pro Full-back, a future All-Pro Receiving Tight End, sure handed, quality recievers, and a football “god” at QB.
His formations were obvious, his play-calling was good for the first series of the game (his father probably emailed the script), and what should have been a power-house offense underachieved most of the time. He should have been fired right after the Seattle game.
I thought Tannenbaum did a great job last year but, choosing Schottenheimer would prove to me that he doesn’t know much about football.
If they were so “high” on Schotty, why hasn’t he been hired already, considering they fired Mangini right after the season finished, if Schotty was the man, boom hire him right there. For some reason, I do not think they like Spags, because they did they would have interviewed him for a second time already, all reports say they have not set a date yet. That leaves Ryan as the logicial choice, but sometimes the Jets defy logic.
As far as trusting Woody, I do not because he is more interested in the business aspect than the football aspect. Tanny I would give a pass to unitl he names a HC, because he has done a repsectable job as a GM.
Woody was born into money and hired a GM who shared his value system. O Tannenbaum has had good drafts and is one of the better bean counters in the league but it is undeniable that he is driven by the gravy train.
I recall when Mangini was fired, Woody and Christmas Tree’s rationale was that they wanted “a change”. If they hire young Schott, it automatically makes that statement bs. I’m starting to believe the only reason they fired Mangini was because we missed the playoffs; they didn’t have a plan beyond that.
Some people buy cars, Woody bought a football team. He still needs to prove to the fans that he knows what he’s doing and, more importantly, that he cares.
YES…. I Trust them 100% to HIRE REX RYAN!!!!
and They will.
Bassett,
Since the firing of Mangini, you’ve taken a few shots at Mr. T’s character (maybe quite justified). Other then the firing of a friend in Mangini (which could be considered just part of his job – or as you have pointed out, sending a friend down the river to save your own hide) what has Mr. T done that makes you question his integrity?
Question aside, I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment of your post. Assuming the reporting is accurate (big assumption) it reminds me of this episode of the office – http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2280656/the_office_surplus/
Ferguson, Mangold, Washington, Revis, Harris, Keller, Pace, woody, faneca, Jenkins. The guy seems to listen to those around him in the draft, and he hit it out of the park with last years Free agent additions. Keep him, and trust his decisions.
Why is it different than any other high profile / high risk job search. If a candidate stands out and is “truly” the best, sure – than its easy call. But that’s not the way things usually work out.
Some people are strong in one area, others in a different area. This sounds like, and looks like with the names involved, no slam dunk candidates.
If you were doing the hiring and thought Schott had maybe a slight edge overall, should you ignore all reaction to the hire? Tough call.
Are we really surprised to be reading this. Of course Mike Tannenbaum is most concerned with his own a$$ and of course we can’t trust him, his mentor is Bill Parcells!! Ask Art Blank what he thinks of Bill Parcells…Mike T’s from the same school.
Woody on the other hand, I believe, has the team’s best interest at heart, if not he doesn’t spend the money he did in the off season. The problem is he’s being led by the hand by an attorney, salary cap specialist who thinks he knows football.
You know, it’s woody that drives me crazy. He let Bradway go nuts and screw up the team and now he’s letting Tanny do it. Bottom line, the Jets really gotta get some real football people in that front office to start making some real football decisions or this team ain’t going nowhere, no matter who the coach is.
Tanny could be right about Schott…I saw Mangini mouth “Field Goal” in the Seahawks game. Perhaps, Schott’s judgment would be better than Mangini’s and we will never know how scripted the Jets’ gameplans were and how much leeway Schott had in his playcalling. But, I’m guessing Woody is concerned with the business aspect of the franchise…a right someone who writes the checks should have. From a business standpoint, hiring Schott would be a disaster. From a football standpoint, who knows? In this instance, I’m glad Woody is considering the business implications. Plus, if the choice is Ryan as HC and Schott is the OC, doesn’t Tanny get the best of both worlds? I have a feeling if we see Brad Smith with Rex, he may have to do to Schott what his Dad did to Kevin Gilbride for calling a dumb play. I much rather have someone controlling Schott a bit and I think Rex will.
The diff is that Parcells was a football person with football credentials when he came to the Jets. He bought Tanny, a lawyer, in to work the salary cap. All of a sudden this guys the GM. I mean of all the good GM in the NFL, the Jets go from Bradway to this guy. That’s on the owner.
I hope Mangini reads this, he will laugh his butt off…
Mangini – the guy was a schmuck. He lost the team. He lost his coordinators. He lost his QB. He should’ve taken the year off to regroup. NOw he’s coaching an even bigger bunch of underacheivers.
ESPN is reporting Herm is out in KC, mainly because they are about to hire Pioli as GM. Stay away from Herm, Tanny.
Igs, you do not necessarily to be a football guy to be a GM. Look at Matt Millen in Detroit at least we did not get him.
lgs, how exactly has Tanny screwed up the team? He just signed 2 guys that were 2nd team All-Pro and in the Pro Bowl (Jenkins and Faneca). He drafted a guy who is All-Pro and a Pro Bowler (Leon) and two other Pro Bowlers (Mangold, Revis). And, he stole Thomas Jones (Pro Bowler, team MVP) in a great trade. The team has the most talent on it since 1998. He doesn’t coach, so maybe you can blame him for choosing Mangini, but he’s been magic as a GM in terms of signing and drafting talent and getting all of it under the cap.
Swizzle,
I didn’t say that football people can’t screw up now. I said that a front office in the NFL should be run by people with some good history.
Millen’s a bad example though. His ineptitude should be compared to no one. But atleast he wasn’t afraid to grab that big WR that us Jets fans having been praying for since Keyshawn left.
Sackdance:
1. Overdrafts and oversigns Tweeners – Brian Thomas, David Bowens, Gholston, etc.
2. Has little affinity for catching sleppers at need positions.
3. Signs 30 old RBs and 30 old CBs every season.
4. No rookie steals in the draft.
5. The only time he goes after a big time FA QB, the guy is almost 40 years old.
6. Gets bottom dollar for big time players in trades – Robertson, John Abraham (I mean, what was that?), etc.
Sackdance, do I need to keep going?
So what that Tanny’s a lawyer?!? GM is a business position and a mangement position. A GM has to listen to his scouts, coaches and owner and acquire and sign talent that fit the team and it’s budget. I bet if you go around the league or look back in NFL history, many great GMs likely worked their way up the ladder through the front office, which is what Tanny had to do. And, being in meetings with Parcells, Belichick and crew as they evaluate talent to acquire or draft is probably the football equivalent of a JD/MBA from Harvard. Whatever Tanny was, now he’s a football man and if he were fired by the Jets, he’d likely get hired faster than Mangini was.
7. Refuses to spend a high pick on an exciting rookie offensive player – this one is my pet peeve, breaks my heart every year.
8. No affinity for draft chemistry.
guys, this is a stupid converation. what tannenbaum wants and builidning the jets into a winner are not twqo different things…he wants to build a winner so he can STAY IN HIS JOB….he brought t. rich, alan faneca, kris jenkins, thomas jones, bubba franks and yes, bret favre here because he thought that would HELP US WIN….and if that godda&M%$$N favre didnt COMPLETELY FALL APART at the end of the season…we might still be playing….
give the guy a minute….dont u all realize he wants to hire rex ryan and he cant because they are still playing>?
my prediction is he will hire ryan, either schotty or callahan will be the OC, favre will NOT be back..and we can get on to what we need to do to win…improve the defense and run the ball more
Sackdance,
Now he’s a football man. And as he learns on the job, he’s stinking up the place big time.
Bubba Franks… ummmm, Jim, are you serious?
the indecisiveness argument is nonsense. we can’t hire rex ryan until the ravens are out of the playoffs. that’s what the hold-up is.
why haven’t we interviewed or contacted ron rivera?
lgs,
I’m not a huge Tannembaum fan, but your post is unfair.
1. 3-4 OLBs are by definition tweeners. Calvin Pace is a tweener as well.
2. Not even sure what that means, but how about Abe Elam, David Clowney?
3. You’re complaining about the age of a few backups he signed? I guess ty law was a starter but that was a low risk high reward shot that i think was a smart move – regardless, you seem to be really nitpicking here
4. Um, Leon?? Lowery looks like a steal
5. How many “big time FA QBs have changed teams during Mr. T’s tenure? The only two that come to mind are Drew Brees and Favre.
6. He got Nick Mangold for Abraham, not bad when you consider this season was an anomply for Abraham, staying healthy, and everyone knew we were trying to trade Abraham
9. refuses to sign someone with HC experience.
10. Never signs hot free agents only signs old free agents – I.e. refuses to sign FA Moss, then trades for Favre the nest year.
this blog is getting worse than the news papers. relax after the choice is made than u can comment i trust mike and i think hes waiting on rex
lgs,
7. dustin keller
8. what?? draft chemistry? also you are banned from using the word affinity. it doesn’t mean what you think it means. use the word sense, or talent
9. First choice was Cowher
10. Calvin Pace, Alan Faneca (he was “hot” in the sense that almost any team in the nfl would take him, even if he has some tread on his tires)
please stop, i feel compelled to respond to your points because they are slightly ridiculous, but im getting tired of doing so
SackDance99,
Good Post, a GM is a Business/Management position. The have Bradway and a another cheif personal guy (I can’t remember his name) who is a highly personnel guy.
Mike take all their advice in along with the coaches input and makes the final decision.
I think he is an excellent GM. Yea… I disagree with bring Favre in and letting Chad go.
These guy’s don’t understand the Jets structure.
lgs, you are completely wrong on nearly everything that you’ve cited.
1. Overdrafts? Brick, Mangold, Revis, Gholston and Revis…sure, VG has sucked so far, but 1/2 those guys are in the Pro Bowl!!! Tweeners? Bowens was signed to a modest contract and I think BT was, too. I mean those guys aren’t Pro Bowlers, but they’re decent productive players.
2. Catching sleepers? How about Stuckey or Clowney? How about Mosely or DeVito? How about Leon or Lowery?
3. Over 30 RBs?!? So what? They were productive, right? Jones just made the Pro Bowl. Leon is young and I think he may have signed a steal in Marcus Mason from the Ravens’ practice squad.
4. No rookie steals? This is ridiculous. How about Harris, Revis, Stuckey or Lowery? Heck, even Keller was a steal in the late first round, as was Mangold.
5. Favre was a unique circumstance and a risk that failed. Hindsight is 20-20. If he had led the Jets to the playoffs, which I think he would’ve done if he hadn’t been injured, then Tanny would’ve won GM of the Year for this bold move. I mean, Favre had dissed the Jets, but Tanny waited Favre out and got him. At the time, I thought it was a master stroke. Who knew?
6. Gets bottom dollar? He got the market price. Didn’t Randy Moss, maybe the best deep threat WR in NFL history go for a 3rd rounder? But, the Jets ended up with a first rounder for Abe, which turned into Mangold. Pretty sweet deal. As for D-Rob, his contract was a killer and his knee condition is a permanent problem, what did you expect for him?
Bottom line, lgs, you don’t have any facts on your side. Need I go on?
Liam
1. I know. There’s a glut of tweeners. All 3-4 lineman are not tweeners. All 3-4 linemen have diffrent roles and coaches that know how to put them there.
2.Elam runs slower than Jenkins and rarely makes plays. Clowney might work out if paired with the right receiver, which Tanny refuses to get.
3. Im not nitpivking. All of these little things add up to a team with too many players, no balance in the positions, and ultimately, failure.
4. Lowery may be a steal. He should get lots of advice from the 50 other DBs on the team.
5. A few have and a lot of other position big FA’s that would have filled a need. like Randy Moss changed teams. The Jets never even dropped a bid.
6. He still could’ve gotten a higher pick for Abraham (not to knock Mangold – bet OL on the team) Could have made the trade directly instead of spinning a web between Atlanta and whatever other team it was.
this just in… I just talked to my friends, who said that his aunt is a realitor in jersey and she just helped Favre sell his house. HES GONE!
Gotta run. Sackdance and Liam, some good points.The bottom line is that he failed to put a team together in 3 years. No all those RBs and DBs and LBs were not productive. There are 2 special players on this team – one of them plays on an island so he doesn’t count (Revis). The other is Leon. No line chemistry. No threat to take heat off of Favre. 4 descent linemen. 2 aging and gone soon. 1 big mess. That’s the work of Tanny.
0 chemistry.
r u serious testy
lgs, others have dealt with your other points, but who says an established HC is best? What do Andy Reid, Jim Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin and Ken Whisenhunt have in common? Their teams are in the conference championships and they were all assistant coaches before becoming HC’s of their respective teams. Oh, and how about Sparano, Mike Smith, Jeff Fisher, John Fox, Brad Childress? By my count, only 3 playoff teams had HC’s who had been HC’s in the NFL before: Indy, SD and Giants. So, maybe interviewing an assistant coach is the smart thing to do?
lgs, you’re just way off base. The Jets are in far better shape post-Mangini than they were post-Groh and, in any event, Tanny is an expert capologist and as long as a team can manage the cap, acquiring personnel isn’t a problem. The Jets just need a better HC and some luck at the QB position. It’s really not that bleak.
sack,
lgs is ridiculous, but you give tanny and bradway too much credit.
d’bust was a definite overdraft. the next time he pushes a DE off the line of scrimmage on a run play will be the first time.
and i wouldn’t call stucky or clowney sleepers until they actually accomplish something on the field. i will give you leon, lowery, keller, harris, and revis. but you can’t forget about schlegel, nate garner, jacob bender, clemens and ainge (jury still out on the last two?). i’m sure there are a couple of other picks who are gone now.
overall, i’d say the tangini and bradway drafts had a 1:1 ratio of good to bad picks
also, you’re mostly right about marcus mason–he was on the redskins roster, not ravens–but he was great in camp and pre-season. and the skins could have used him when portis was banged up too.
the real problem with the talent evaluation seems to be that bradway finds good late round talent but that the team can’t differentiate between athletes and football players when making a high pick–see d’bust and ghostman.
Igs,
Have any WR’s Millen drafted besides Calvin Johnson panned out? Roy Williams is a knucklehead, Rodgers is not even in the league. C’mon 0 chemistry they had the leading rusher in the AFC, could have had the leading rusher in the league if Schotty was not inept in his playcalling.
I’m with SD99, on this argument, Tanny’s good moves have far outweighed his few not so good ones.
Calling D’Brick a bust is a bit unfair, he only gave up 2 sacks this year and has shown tremendous signs of improvement since his first year.
ian, of course there are “bad” picks that tannembaum made, but assuming you are right and he is batting .500, thats an outstanding batting average in the nfl draft. that means that you are adding, on average, 3.5 quality pieces in each draft. everyone swings and misses a bunch in the draft, tannembaum’s hit ratio has been very good.
any chance the Jets could trade up in the draft and get Crabtree? This is probably a fantasy, Jets would have to give up a ton to get in the top five, so I probably answered my own question.
first we need to see who they get as a Coach and take it from there. if Schotty gets the job we are done! next season and all the once after as long as he’s around. if Ryan gets the Job i hope he brings his balls with him and gets us new coordinators and i assume he will go through the players to see who stays and who goes. i still think we have a QB in the house like Ratliff we need to see what he can do before we make judgement. draft a TALL FAST WR we need one bad! can trade LC he does not impress me at all.
so many QB that are not great have won SB because of defense. i believe from what we have seen so far that Ratliff is not worse than some of those QB’s.
Maybe Tanny is leaking this to the media to use as leverage for negocations with other potenial coaches, such as Ryan or Spags. To keep the price down, that would be a wise move. I wouldn’t take everything at face value.
Sackdance, you are very close with that last statement: “The Jets just need a better HC and some luck at the QB position. It’s really not that bleak.”
What the Patriots were able to do this year was amazing. Think about it, they lost one of the best QB in the league in the first quarter of their season. They lost their starting RB. They lost their best DB (Rodney) best LB(Adalius) and I know there are more injuries to list. The point is, The Jets were extremely lucky this year with injuries (Favre yes, but he was still on the field) .
The problem and difference between these two teams is coaching. IMO, we had more talent than the Patriots (post-injuries) and yet our talent was not used effectively, and the Patriots, as they have done year in and year out, were able to maximize their players and their gameplans to be successful.
Now, we do have some holes, but we need a coach who can manage our players’ talents to form the best gameplan each week. I thought Mangini did this well in 2006, and I think we agree he was a different kind of coach in 08. But I think for the most part, we have a good foundation to form a very good team. They showed signs this year of doing that.
d’Brick was not an overdraft. At the time, he was the best OL in the draft. and The LT position is the one of the most important parts of a team. (second-highest offensive paid position in the NFL). Dbrick has the mold of a great LT (i.e. “freak of nature”) and while he did start slow, he played very well this season. You use top picks for LT’s, end of story. You build an O-line around the LT.
more like everyone in that room kissing ass to wrangler boy.
i agree about d’brick. he was the consensus best LT in the draft. LT was a position of need. done and done
if we had that same pick the next year and chose joe thomas, everyone would be praising the pick
If Ryan is the HC, then Shotty will be the OC if he chooses to stay. Cam Cameron in Baltimore runs the same offense as Shotty, so I’m sure there is a comfort level there… Between that and the players not having to learn a new offense, it just makes too much sense not to keep him….
I don’t trust Erik Boland!
wood y and tanny –
if you hire shott as head coach you can say goodbye to me paying the PSL’s
Rex Ryan or BUST
The last thing anyone pays a left tackle for is to push someone off the line of scrimmage in the run game. Ferguson is developing very well. He had a much better year than Joe Thomas, and has been much better than Marcus McNeil for two years running. Considering his age, you could make a good argument that he would be one of the top linemen any GM in the league would grab if given the opportunity.
The team is in much better shape talent-wise than they were before Tannenbaum and Mangini got here. That said, they still have some holes, and I think much of the failing this season was personnel-related rather than coaching-related. (They played one complete game all season, against Tennessee, and their 8-3 record was inflated by close wins against poor teams.) The Patriots exposed the defensive personnel and the rest of the league followed suit. At the same time, Favre’s arm went in the tank.
I do find Tannenbaum’s caution disappointing, but it’s understandable. If he hires Schotty and the team has a bad year next season, they’re both gone. If he hires Ryan, he gives himself 2-3 years. That’s just the reality. Considering that, it makes sense for Tannenbaum to play the percentages. After all, there is more than one person in the world that can come in and coach this football team successfully.
I trust general manager Tannenbaum 100%. He gets a good haul in free agency each year, and I think he has fine drafting skills.
I do not know enough about Mr. Johnson to form an opinion, but judging by his resume, I would say he is at least qualified to be where he is at this time.
If the Jets bring in Rex Ryan as their head coach after his very successful defense carries the Ravens deep into the playoff then from a business prespective Woody did the “right” thing. I think he knows that since for him $ talks. If he hires someone like Shooty then he will lose the fan base who are the ones buying tickets and you can kiss selling the new seats good bye. Jets have a 3-4 defense/Ravens have the same. From my perspective I believe it would be a great choice since DEFENSE win championships! One caveat: this are the Jets – so keep hoping…
I do not trust Woody but I trust Mr T. Its clear the Woody listened to the fans and pressed the Mangini firing…….All I keep hearing is leaked information. Wasnt this the problem under Herm? Mangini leaves and these “sources” start to pop up again……Lets hope the ravens lose this weekend and get Rex in here. I am already tired of this nonsense….Whats next the leaked Favre chronicles??
Once again you read into something and blow it out of proportion.
Being “more sensitive to the media and fan reaction than he has been” is not the same as being “worried about what the fans think of him” as you claim he is.
Here is an example. Last year I felt the Mets did not necessarily need Johan Santana on paper. Disagree with that all you want, I may have been wrong, but at the time I still felt they needed to get him for the fans. That being because the collapse created an atmosphere with the fans that could carry over into the next season and permeate onto the field. With the Mets, the Santana signing probably came too late, and the wound was too deep, because it didn’t help. The fans were booing on opening day and the team never got going. What I think Tannenbaum is (rightly) sensitive to is the negative reaction surrounding an already tumultuous situation of a mini-collapse. The bottom line is that if Tannenbaum believes Schott is the better coach, but ALSO believes that in THIS SITUATION where the fans and media will play a HUGE part in how the team is perceived, he also must weight how much of a dropoff Rex Ryan is, combined with the reaction of the media and fans. Maybe he only likes Schott slightly more, but thinks the negative reaction sways it the other way. That would be SMART.
And if you don’t think media and fan reactions can permeate onto the field, look no further than the Denver game when players ADMITTED to buying into the hype. It goes the other way too.
You guys are going to regret calling for Manghini’s head.He was the sole purpose of the talent that was brought in.Tanny’s job was to make it work.With a little more power and job security,Manghini will do a good job in Clevland.JUST WATCH!!
ian, this site reported that Mason was on the Ravens’ practice squad, so if that’s wrong, blame Bassett (and I don’t believe it’s wrong).
Everyone got on you for Brick, so I won’t pile on. But, I think you were making the “Bradway likes athletes more than football players, so he picked guys like Brick and Gholston.” I really haven’t seen that from Tanny’s drafts. I also don’t think that Brick and Gholston are similar players. Brick was incredibly highly touted as an LT prospect, many thought he should’ve been the 1st pick in ‘06. He has everything that you would’ve wanted from an LT, especially his athleticism. I was on Brick because he doesn’t have the nasty streak of McNeil or Thomas, who are better in run blocking. But, Brick is now better at pass blocking, which is what LTs are paid for and he’s gotten better at run blocking. Gholston was nowhere near the consensus pick that Brick was. I think most draft pundits thought he’d be a project and it was unclear what position he could play on defense. I think Jets fans wildly overestimated what he could do as a rookie. He underachieved, but it’s too early to call him a bust and I don’t like him at all.
As for “sleepers, ” my definition is a productive player or prospect that can play a role on an NFL team that you drafted in a late round or signed off the street or a practice squad. Clowney hasn’t done anything, besides a great catch in the Buffalo game, but he has potential. Stuckey was a very productive player. Not bad for a 7th round pick.
seanmac, i fear you might have green tinted lenses clouding your vision.
re: marcus mason–he was on skins roster in pre-season, must have gone to ravens practice squad between redskins and jets.
re: d’bust–several different points here.
(1) the fact that he was consensus top pick doesn’t mean that it was a good pick. ryan leif was consensus #2 qb behind peyton manning, that didn’t make him a good pick for chargers. the talent evaluators must be held accountable even when all other scouts are in agreement. otherwise, the front office could just use a scouting service instead of having its own personnel.
(2) he is adequate at pass blocking, at best. it was terrific when tennesssee lined haynesworth up over him and d’bust got driven back ten yards. he still can’t handle elite pass rushers without help.
(3) his athleticism–he may be fast, but usually when he gets out in space he overruns his blocks or gets lost.
(4) run blocking is not important for LT’s–that is nonsense.
(5) the truth–he is about 15-20 pounds lighter than all the elite LT’s of the last 10 years or so. the fact is he doesn’t weigh enough or have enough strength to pass block against good bull rushers or run block.
with all that said, perhaps if we move to more of a zone blocking scheme, which callahan likes, d’brick can be more effective in run blocking.
If schott is a real candidate for hc job, I have to question the football smarts of both Woody and Tanny. In my opinion, schott should be fired.
Like you said, it’s a quote from an anonymous source; therefor (and hopefully), just much ado about nothing.
Godwilling, Tannenbaum is biding time ’til Ravens’ season has come to its conclusion, then reeling in Sexy Rexy. If he’s so intralled with Schottenheimer promote him to Assistant Head Coach and let him run the offense sans Favre. Afterall, Favre was the reason for the limited playbook, poor playcalling and therby zero HC interview requests.
I agree with those on this thread who indicate that many of the fans are reading way too much negativity from Boland’s article. Tannenbaum has done relatively well in his brief stint as a GM (especially personnel wise). Mangini didn’t work out and Favre was a high risk/high reward decision. Overall however the team’s talent has been upgraded on his watch. That said, there are holes on D and a gutsy decision at QB that needs to be made. Shott. has shown nothing in 3years as an OC to give fans any reason to think that he is the answer. There is a reason why no other team has interviewed him this off-season with 6 openings. Tannenbaum must realize that selling that decision to an already overheated fanbase is going to be virtually impossible. Rex Ryan is clearly the obvious choice and I wll trust Tannenbaum and Johnson will or have already concluded that. They can’t make that public until Baltimore’s season is over. Until then, in the absence of any other decisions, fans and the media need to be patient and stop hyperventilating. Something that is virtually impossible for both groups.
zartan, Mangini was not responsible for the talent evaluation, sorry. The only move he made on his own was to bring in Brian Schottenheimer (Tannenbaum was promoted a week later). And you have done nothing but say he sucks as a coordinator all week.
There is a silver lining here. If Schott becomes head coach, that means a new offensive coordinator :) Ok bad joke ..
People do realize that the Jets put up 405 points this year, no? That’s more than Peyton Manning and the Colts managed. Everyone is always in a rush to kick one coach after another out the door, only to blink in surprise when the coach succeeds elsewhere (look at what Dan Henning and Mike Heimerdinger did this year, for instance).
Zartan
Mangini brought in the talent, and it was Tanny’s job too make it work??? That’s assinine!!! Its the other way around there buddy!!! The Mangidiot had too go!!!
Unlike most of you, I’m in no rush for a HC!!! If all goes as planned, Rex Ryan will be our next HC!!! But if we go with Schotty as our guy, I’ll go nuts!!! I keep asking myself, if Favre was struggling so much against Miami, (And he clearly was), why did Schotty ask him too pass the ball 40 friggin’ times, instead of handing it off too T.J.???
Ian,
Like I said earlier, D’brick gave up only 2 sacks this year, whether he got help or not, the Jets Oline was one of the best in the league and that could be seen with the production of the running game. So if you say he is a bust giving up 2 sacks on one of the leading rushing teams in the AFC, I do not think thats quite accurate. He has also improved each year, added about 15-20 lbs. and has not digressed.
Wait a minute!!! We’re gonna give Schotty all the credit for a 405 point season, but we’re gonna blame Favre for the entire collapse??? Somthings rotten in Denmark!!!
i know you guys are going to hate me but id rather have favre over clemens or ratliff and that flop we drafted for a qb from tennesse
What’s that all about??? Who’s removing my posts, and why???
Jay
I dont hate you at all!!! If he wants too come back, (and I mean “truly” wants too come back), I’m all for it!!! Favre is still our best option at QB, HANDS DOWN!!!
i agree if he want to go thru training camp with the team, im for it a 110 percent it would be dumb not to want him back, we just do not have anybody else.
Harvlis – Great post. (Back at the beginning of the comments.) I couldn’t agree with you more!
seanmac31 – Here’s our offensive ranking for the last three years with Schott as coordinator: 2006 – 25th, 2007 – 26th, 2008 – 16th.
http://www.coachescorner.com/n_input/nnweb/scores/header_nfl_off_rank.htm
Points are not everything. What about turnovers? Only 3 teams had more turnovers than the Jets in 2008.
I’m sorry, but Schott was a failure as an offensive coordinator. He couldn’t adjust his offense to Favre or to TJones or to Leon Washington or to the opposition. His play calling was somehow both predictable and erratic. I can’t believe that he is so highly regarded by Tannenbaum. The fact that he is gives me pause.
Of course, it’s possible that I could be wrong, (I’m only an armchair GM from the outside looking in after all,) but if so, then as Bassett said, strap on a pair and hire him as coach. If he’s right, then I’ll be happy to be proven wrong if the Jets become Superbowl winners. And if they don’t, then I’ll be there along with all the others saying “I told you so,” and nodding with satisfaction when both Schott and Tannenbaum are shown the door.
Personally, I think Rex Ryan is the best choice, and I echo what many others have also said: let the new head coach (hopefully Rex) choose his own staff! Don’t saddle him with Schott or anyone else. Go Jets!
btw for all you d’ brick haters out there, he is a pro- bowl alternate. not bad for his third year in the league.
D’brick is a bust?? Who would say that? The guy has improved every year since he has been in the league, and has established himself as a pro bowl caliber LT by his 3rd year and he’s a bust???
What is with some of you people?? What the hell do you have to do you have to do to get a little respect in ny??
I do not trust Tannenbaum and its not because he is lawyer/capologist who is trying to become a football guy. I don’t trust him for the followin reasons. First, it took him 3 seasons to figure out that you can’t run a 3-4 defense with a 5′11″ nose tackle (Dwayne Robertson) and a 220 inside linebacker (Jonathon Vilma). Second, he is incapable of selecting the most important player in a 3-4 defense – outside linebackers. You need look no further than the pathetic sack output that the Jet’s OLB’s delivered this year and the big money he paid for that output. You can’t pay top dollar (see Calvin Pace, Bryan Thomas) or waste top draft picks (Vernon Ghoulstopn) OLB’s who can’t beat a tackle one on one and get to the quarterback. Three, bringing in a 39 year old quarterback who has played in the WestCoast offense his entire career and teaching him a new system without an adequate off season was asnine.
Ian,
“d’bust was a definite overdraft. the next time he pushes a DE off the line of scrimmage on a run play will be the first time.
and i wouldn’t call stucky or clowney sleepers until they actually accomplish something on the field. i will give you leon, lowery, keller, harris, and revis. but you can’t forget about schlegel, nate garner, jacob bender, clemens and ainge (jury still out on the last two?). i’m sure there are a couple of other picks who are gone now.
-D’Brick was an overdraft but, at the time, a smart move.
-I agree about Stucky and Clowney – I do think Clowney can be special. Stuckey hasn’t shown me anything special.
-Leon – A+
-Lowery – a solid pick if they use them right
-Same with Keller – but could’ve made a move for McFadden instead getting a 4th Tight End in Keller.
-Ainge, Washington – WHy? Did they really plan to use these players? Bender? Come on???
-What did they see in Clemens? Why???
Maybe I’m not so ridiculous after all Ian?
Igs, Forgot Mangold, excellent first round choice. Bender and Garner were late round picks, which rarely make the team anyway. Why get McFadden when the Jets have Leon and TJ? Plus the cost of trading up was way too high. This years draft is going to be important, as is every year, because they need 2 starters to come out of the draft this year and should get some depth on the O-Line.
swizzle,
It’s those late round picks that are supposed to be the glue to keep a team together. Look at any successful team, the steelers, the Giants, the patriots, they can find quality players late in the draft, of waivers, or as FA that didn’t go to high. With the Jets, it’s like these late round guys, that just draft them just to draft them, like they’re just going through the motions.
And again, as no one seems to able to answer since I’ve been on this blog the last month:
Where are the character picks and where is the leadersip on this team.
Where are the David Tyrees and the Antonio Peirces, the players that are as valuable for who they are in the locker room and practice field as they are on the feild.
Where are those guys?
Report: Ryan might keep Schottenheimer
Jets Defense – TM – NYJ – Jan. 13 – 8:42 pm et
New Info:
Rex Ryan reportedly told the Jets that he will consider keeping Brian Schottenheimer as offensive coordinator if given the head-coaching job.
Ryan was in the same position as Schottenheimer (coordinator on the brink of becoming a head coach) last year. He says he’d keep Schottenheimer, and if all goes well, allow him to move up the ladder elsewhere in 2010. Jan. 13 – 8:42 pm et
Source: ESPN Insider
Also, The concept of the dual backfield is based on you actually using the dual backfeild. TJ is not a home run hitter – too top heavy and aging. He’s also not a game changer, as much as I like him. Leon is not a workhorse back. Too small. They reached for Keler, they could’ve pulled something off for DMC instead. Like I keep saying, the only time they get ambitious is to bring a 39 year old QB in. Come on???
More:
Rams won’t wait on Ryan if Ravens win
Ravens Defense – TM – BAL – Jan. 13 – 1:08 pm et
The Rams are not expected to wait on head-coaching finalist Rex Ryan if the Ravens advance to the Super Bowl.
Ryan can’t be hired as long as Baltimore is alive. The Jets do appear willing to wait, which could give them the inside track on hiring Ryan. He hit it off with Jets owner Woody Johnson and makes too much sense in New York. Jan. 13 – 1:08 pm et
Source: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
So, to sum up, if I were woody, I’d try to bring in Cowher and Relegate Tanny back to capology. But Woody won’t do that because he’s still the same idiot that let terry Bradway trade away two 1st round draft picks to get 1 and take Robertson.
ESPN-Shotty is close on the Nassau Community College HC job.
Just the thought of Shotty being our OC makes me throw up. Our offense was horrible 29th,28th and19th. 3years-what are you all thinking? Is he suddenly going to get good at this.
Let’s all hope the NCC gig comes thru for him.
What’s up with Mike Shanahan? Is he on the Jets radar?
I say we package L.Coles and T.Jones in a trade with the Giants and bring in B.JACOBS.And fellow JET fans REX RYAN is a done deal…THEY passed on SPAGS or they would off made a stronger move to sign him already..Schotty is just a smoke screen for HC…FAVRE may play next year but it wont be for the JETS Mike T knows we need the cap room to save his job LOL…Schotty does stay as OC because we will be starting CLEMENS or RATIFF next year and I dont think they are going to try to get them to learn a new offensive system…Mark my words when RYAN gets signed Woody goes deep in his pockets again to sign defensive players to make his decision to bring REX in as successful as possible…RYAN’s defense will sell all the PSLs for WOODY that he ever dreamed of…..
Good post Gangreen.
But why not just draft Chris Wells or someone like Rashad jennings to work in with TJ and Neon Leon, trade Coles for a 3rd rounder, and use it to draft a good safety, thusfore allowing us to release slowmo Abram Elam.
donald brown, Shonne Green?
I think Shanahan’s not intersted for the same reason Cowher’s not interested… Tanny.
Just my oppion but i think a bruiser like JACOBS could go a long way and L.COLE and TJ are on their last legs….TJ although having 13 tds never showed break away speed or big play ability TJ is a good back and I will never diss him but if we want an identity on offense as a smash mouth running team JACOBS brings that in a BIG BIG way LOL….JACOBS and WASHINGTON with are offensive line would bring instant respectability to our running game and take pressure off of CLEMENS or RATIFF that I am presuming will start next year..I think MIKE T and REX will draft high for a DB,DE,or CB in the first round and will sign more free agent 3-4 players this offseason…BUT what do i know i just play the quessing game like everyone else…LMAO
No way the Jets are getting Jacobs A.K.A “THE BEAST” Derrick Ward will be the odd man out if any of the two were to go. Rex Ryan will be the Jets coach,and B-Schott will remain the OC. Don’t rule out the Jets making an attempt to get Chad Ocho Cinco in a draft day deal. It may not even cost the Jets the 17th pick. To answer the question if I trust Woody and Tanny…Yes, I think they want to be a contender,so they have my trust as a lifelong Jet fan.
Crimson 7 I hope to God they dont bring in ChaD JOHNSON i dont think NY can handle another year of media drama and OCHO cant going anywhere without getting his name in the papers or on TV…I wouldn’t give a 1st day draft pick or the BIG $$$ he will want to come to the JETS …..NO THANKS OCHO PLEASE STAY SOUTH OF THE NY BORDER>>>>
GANGGREEN- I agree Chad could definately become a headache for the Jets. However, there will be several big-name wideouts available this offseason via trade or free agency. Free agents like T.J., Antonio Bryant,and trade such as Chad,Braylon,and T.Owens. The wr position as you know is one of the top priorities the Jets “must” address this offseason. I just do not think drafting a Percy Harvin or a Jeremy Maclin with the 17th pick is the answer.
Yeah good post gangreen, but not so much the t.jones and coles for jacobs part, that’s kinda extreme. And besides jacobs IS a BIG brusing back, but I see him being riddled with injuries in the near future.
I say if he is still there, try to snag beanie wells in the first round, he would be the perfect compliment to leon in the coming years
Id love to see the Jets get Beenie. I’d love even more for them to make a move for Micheal Crabtree. I can dream right?
But think about this: When was the last time the Jets made a run at the Super Bowl? They had a big, go to receiver (Keyshawn) and a horribly inaccurate, strong armed QB. They should make a move. I’d even be willing to lose next years umber 1.
One comment I wanted to add on D’Brick. The rest of the first half of the draft class), with the exception of Cutler (who’s next win in a big situation will be his first) has been pretty mediocre. Here are the 15 picks after Brick.
AJ Hawk
Vernon Davis
Michael Huff
Donte Whitner
Ernie Sims
Matt Leinart
Jay Cutler
Haloti Ngata
Kamerion Wimbley
Brodrick Bunkley
Tye Hill
Jason Allen
Chad Greenway
Bobby Carpenter
Sackdance made so many good comments in this thread I don’t even know where to begin.
I don’t think fans have any right to complain about the draft picks. The Jets picked the right players at the right spots. I would have loved Cutler 3 years ago, but it would have been reaching with the 4th pick and trading down can be difficult. Also, D-brick was the consensus best o-lineman and a position that the Jets desperately needed to fill. Picking up Mangold solidified 05 as a good draft for the Jets.
The other issue that needs to be addressed is Ghoulston. Bassett, if you could look at last year’s posts, I’ll bet half of the people complaining about the Ghoulston pick today, are the same people who insisted on drafting Ghoulston 1 year ago. He was the player that fell to the Jets. No one on this blog was calling for Mayo over Ghoulston….no one. In 2008, the top 5 went exactly as predicted, and every NFL expert in the world agreed that Ghoulston was the next logical pick. The fact that Ghoulston hasn’t panned out yet, is not a knock on Tanny.
zenlaw, thanks for the shout out.
Ganggreen, besides the fact that it’s a pipe dream that the Jets could ever get Jacobs, his running style gives him a short NFL shelf life. It’s the shifty or speedy guys that last, not the upright “bruisers.” Because as big as Jacobs is, interior defensive linemen outweigh him and, as he’s slowed down, he’s a nice big target for the LBs and safeties.
lgs, how would we know who the leaders are on the Jets? Mangini had a press lockdown. It appears that Faneca has exerted leadership over the OL, which drastically improved in all phases of the game over 2007. Coles and TJ are also leaders on the team. On defense, it looks like Rhodes, Harris and, maybe, Jenkins are emerging as leaders.
Also, Cowher isn’t interested in coaching. The nutjob owner in Cleveland was willing to give Cowher complete control. He never turned down the Jets because he was never made an offer. As for Shanny, I don’t believe the Jets have interviewed him. Plus, as I posted earlier, all 4 coaches of the teams in the conference championship were assistant coaches before becoming HC’s. It’s a myth that an established HC is better than having an assistant coach.
We agree, however, about the Jets’ potentially drafting an RB, but I’d rather have Moreno than Wells. If you want to build a team, look at how AJ Smith drafts RBs for San Diego. What do LT, Michael Turner and Sproles all have in common? Speed. Moreno’s also pretty big, but he’s much more likely to take it to the house than Wells.
Oh, and I liked DMC, but if the Jets were going to trade up, they should’ve drafted Matt Ryan. Trading up for a franchise QB makes sense because it’s unlikely that you can snag one from someone’s practice squad. But, franchise RBs can be drafted in virtually any round or even off of a team’s practice squad. So, I’d never trade up for an RB. Big and fast WRs are a different story and Crabtree is great, but maybe the Jets should get the QB issue resolved before getting that unknown QB weapons.
Steve,
When you have a quarterback who shows absolutely no discretion with the football, turnovers are going to happen. The Jets offense was 12th in yards per drive, 10th in points per drive, sixth in punts per drive (which is to say, they didn’t have to punt very often), eigth in fumbles per drive…and 32nd in the league in interceptions per drive.
I have a hard time putting that on the offensive coordinator.
I wouldn’t say the QB showed “absolutely no discretion” with the football. There were games in which it appeared there was discretion shown and the team was successful, and other games in which it appeared there was virtually none and they weren’t. How much of the difference in those games can be attributed to game-planning, play-calling or the QB simply going off the reservation is pretty difficult to determine from the outside. I agree it’s hard to lay all the blame on Schottenheimer, or any individual, without inside information. I guess it’s clear who Woody and Mike T. felt was ultimately responsible for all the parts not coalescing.
Let’s not forget that Tanny went out last year and signed some fantastic FA’s. Try arguing that Faneca and Jenkins were not amazing signings. Also, the fact that the Jets were able to snag Favre (not withstanding the results) was quite a coup.
Tanny has also performed well in the draft by trading up for Revis, Harris and Keller, all of whom will be solid players for many years to come.
Sack Dance tell that to larry Johnson and Adrian Peterson…they both run at and attack defenders trying to tackle them…Would u say no to Peterson because he has a short NFL life….Hell no…Bring in Jacobs for 3 to 4 years not looking for a 10 year back they are few and far between…Bring the BEAST and lets beat up interior defensive line men and linebackers so in the 4th quarter Leon make them pay early and often….
What do folks think we can get for LC in a trade? I’ve heard proposals for upper rd picks, but i don’t see it.
I would GIVE him away. I know he’s durable and tough over the middle, but an aging receiver who has difficulty getting seperation AND seems to have a key drop every couple of games is not a good combination).
Remember, he held us hostage to get us to guarantee this next year of his contract. We did not want to do it, why would anyone give us anything for the extra year of his contract that we are saddled with?
Maybe Miami would give us a late round pick? Doubting even that with Parcells affinity for late round picks….
I’m not saying he doesn’t have his strengths as a receiver, but I think we need an upgrade to a true number 1 (draft, trade, FA, whatever) and I’d rather sit LC than JC. Under that scenario, he would whine and complain like a child. I really want him off this team next year so we can work on upgrading the position without the predictable attitude problems.
My ideal wish would be for a true #1 slated to start opposite JC, but hope that Clowney emerges and has the chance to shine w Stuckey emerging as a slot receiver.