Buzz: Ryan to Coach, Schott to Coordinate?
Here’s some quotes from Rich Cimini in the Daily News that I thought were worth breaking down. So … I’ll lead with the Daily News parts in bold, and then my thoughts following …
The Jets have a game plan. Really, they do. If everything falls right, they will wind up with two of the top candidates on their coaching list.
Ravens defensive coordinator Rex Ryan, the odds-on favorite, is expected to retain Jets offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer if he’s offered the head-coaching job, league sources said Wednesday.
We didn’t really buy that Schottenheimer was a legitimate pick that could be named for head coach, but many notable sources have reported that they were under the impression that Schott was the true favorite by Tannenbaum for a time.
Seeing Schottenheimer as head coach would make me want to dry-heave, but I can at least deal with him as an Offensive Coordinator. I’d rather see Bill Callahan take over the reins than see Schottenheimer keep them. He’s not proven much to me in the past two seasons, but at least he’s not going to be running the whole team.
Ryan, Schottenheimer, Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo and Cards assistant head coach Russ Grimm remain the leading candidates among the eight who interviewed for the position. Ryan’s willingness to keep Schottenheimer, whom the organization regards as an up-and-coming coach, isn’t the reason why the Jets are prepared to hire him, but it does make Ryan more attractive.
If the Jets are so enthralled with Brian Schottenheimer, then let’s see them put their money where their mouth is. Who will they hire as the heir-apparent to the offense should he spirit away? Who is this team’s next Brian Daboll to keep the continuity of the offense alive once Schottenheimer’s grace departs from Florham Park?
Initially, there was talk in league circles that Ryan would target Ravens quarterbacks coach Hugh Jackson as his offensive coordinator, but friends say Ryan learned a lesson two years ago while interviewing for the Chargers’ head-coaching vacancy. Ryan didn’t want to hire Ted Cottrell as his defensive coordinator – that was the preference of GM A.J. Smith – and it may have been a reason why he lost out to Norv Turner, who agreed to Cottrell. Turner wound up firing Cottrell this season.
Ryan is getting his first head coaching job, so it’s understandable that management would be a little concerned about who he’d bring in. I’m glad that he’s learned to give a little, but it’s not a ringing endorsement of the new head coach if he’s not even allowed to even evaluate his coordinators. Hell … that terrible coach the Jets just fired because he was so awful was allowed to review his coordinators and he was just shown the door … why doesn’t the new guy who is being marketed as the passionate change of direction this team needs get to at least do the same?
Ryan has no background with Schottenheimer, but he may consider it more palatable to hire a “stranger” in this case because he and Schottenheimer coach on opposite sides of the ball and, in theory, wouldn’t butt heads. Spagnuolo wants the power to hire his own coaches and he would like to have authority over the 53-man roster, according to sources – likely one of the reasons he has slipped behind Ryan.
Let’s address the more troubling part of this first.
Granted, Ryan is a new head coach, but Rex Ryan wouldn’t have final say of his own roster or coaching staff? How are we to a point where Tannenbaum who has been the straw that broke the camel’s back two years running with two crucially bad personnel decisions for polar opposite reasons (Kendall and Favre) is now gaining control of personnel changes on the coaching staff?
As for the second, theoretics are for MIT eggheads and I disagree entirely from the premise that they could work well together.
Wade Phillips is no great coach in my mind but Jason Garrett, for instance, has been a thorn in Phillips’ side during the bulk of their time together in Dallas. If the Jets think that Schottenheimer is this great up and coming coach, and they are telling him that, then why wouldn’t Schottenheimer ‘theoretically’ do some things to undermine his head coach if things don’t go well from the start and he thinks he can earn a head coaching gig out of it? For as much as people would like you to believe that Schottenheimer was a serious candidate for outside jobs in the past two years, why wasn’t anyone breaking his door down if he’s so ready to vault into the top job this season?
If Schottenheimer has been whining about not being able to call his own plays and is being considered for the head coaching job, and then loses out to Ryan, how do you think that relationship will go? Don’t you think that it will be stipulated to Ryan that Schottenheimer has free rein over the offense with all the other restrictions around rosters and his own coaches they are already putting on him?
It’s total speculation on my part, but even the thought of a Head Coach who might not even have veto power over specific plays on his own team gives me chills …
the schott hype is all for the media to save face just in case ryan turns them down.
even if he stays on, i’d like to see the team hire jeremy bates, the broncos former qb coach who called the plays last year, as the qb coach to replace daboll. that would do a few things. first, it would give them another in house candidate for OC or HC if everything falls apart next year. second, it might be a tiny bit of persuasion to bring in shanahan for 2010 if everything falls apart in 2009. third, callahan is an o-line/offense coach who likes zone blocking and west coast offense. bates would be a perfect compliment as w.coast, zone blocking qb coach. then they would be free to fire schott if ryan accepts. bates will not be on the market for long.
In these days when the leading contender to be the next Senator from NY is a daughter of a former president, going against the ex-Governor’s son to be chosen by the ex Manhatann Borough president’s son, I find it funny that the two leaders for the next Head Coach are both sons of high profile coaches.
“I disagree entirely from the premise that they could work well together”- Be fair- your point is that there is no reason to expect that they could work well together. There is also no reason to think they could NOT work well together. Schotty’s had 1 good year, 1 so-so, and one terrible year in terms of results. Both he and Ryan are sons of long-time coaches, grew up with the game, etc. It could very well work.
DaveTN good point & well taken.
James in TN, you’re right it could work, but thats not the point . . the point is if these reports are accurate, then management is forcing an OC down potential HC’s throats. That makes no sense. You need to have a coaching staff that is on the same page and most importantly fully subscribes to the head coach’s philosophy of how to win games. Could Schott fill those shoes, sure, theoretically, so could I. But it should be the HC’s choice who would best fit that position. If a factor in management’s decision about who the next HC is going to be is their willingness to retain Schott that is asenine. Either give Schott the HC job if you really think he is so special, or live with the consequences of not doing that (i.e. the new HC might fire his ass because of underperforming, the cut of his jib, or any other reason he wants). The point is to establish a culture where the HC can best succeed, as Bassett rightly points out this is hamstringing Ryan from the go and creates an uncomfortable power dynamic between him and the OC (no matter how you cut it).
I have been pushing the idea of the CEO head coach for sometime. (Having control or input on both sides of the ball and overall philosophy, vs. a one sided guru). Today I did work for a reputable, well known and BIG TIME NFL person. He told me my concerns over the head coach deferring on one side of the ball is overblown, and that is happens predominantly now. He said Ryan is definetly NOT a CEO, but no one outside of the HC of the NEP really is.
I don’t see this as the Jets forcing Ryan to stick with Schotty… I see it as the Jets wanting a coach who has a similar philosophy as Schotty, or at least who is willing to stick to the same philosophy on offense that the Jets had the last few seasons. They do not want a coach who would completely chance the philosophies on either side of the ball. That’s why they are hiring (hopefully) a 3-4 guy and keeping the same offense in tact.
Also, there are decent football reasons to keep Schott. Both young QBs have only known Schott’s system. Unless Ryan is prepared to hire an OC who can then sign a FA QB to run his system, Schott makes sense from a developmental perspective. Second, I think Schott’s weakness as an OC is that he doesn’t keep it simple. He goes for exotic formations or gadget plays when old fashioned grind it out power football would work better in certain circumstances. Maybe Ryan can set a framework for what he’d like to see. Or, maybe he’ll just punch Schott in the head for a bad call.
Mel, I take your point, but I find the desire for continuity far more compelling on the defensive side of the ball (where we do not have the personnel to run a 4-3 and have spent so much money to bring in 3-4 personnel) as opposed to the offensive where we are likely going to have a new QB and we have talent that doesn’t need to play in Schott’s gimmick west coast offense. That offensive line can play just about any scheme, and our backfield would be fine as well. As far as deficiencies with our WRs, those defincies were exposed in Schott’s offense as it is.
The only way that the continuity argument holds water on the offensive side of the ball is for . . . wait for it . . . a way to entice Favre back. And that just cannot play a role in a key long term decision like this.
Listen, this isn’t some kind of game.
The FO signs an unproven defensive coordinator and give him full control over the team and his coaches. When he fails to make it to the playoffs, the FO fire him.
Now, your telling me we are signing Rex Ryan so we can see more of the same. So that he can continue to build on the foundation Eric Mangini laid? If this is the case, Ryan will not take the job you morons!
Does nobody understand that the foundation is gone? Everything Mangini worked for left with him. You can’t ask someone like Rex Ryan to coach our team and keep everything the way Mangini had it. You have to be taking a HUGE PISS.
Ryan isn’t building on Eric Mangini’s foundation. Ryan needs to lay out his own philosophy and plans, and if that means giving Schott the boot, than so be it.
If you liked Schott as the coordinator than you should have kept Eric Mangini as the head coach.
Ryan has no reason to be loyal to Schott. The fans and the front office have no right to tell him who his coach will be.
Tannenbaum & Woody continue to sit on their hands.
How many good assistant coaches are we going to let Mangini take with him? We are being raped by this clown. Daboll is officially gone.
I know this is all hypothetical, but could this tilt Ryan’s decision in favor of St. Louis, presuming there are no strings attached there or mangement’s “favorites” over there? I know St. Louis doesn’t run a 3-4 but there are young pieces in place that would make the conversion cleaner than the Jets was a couple years ago (Chris Long, Adam Carricker, etc). Also, Ryan might prefer Missouri to New York geographically, just looking at his resume and where he grew up (Oklahoma).
SackDance, yes that’s another reason to keep Schotty. It shouldn’t be hard to find a veteran QB out there who knows Schotty’s system, and if not I’m sure they could pick it up quickly since they are experienced. Then once that QB leaves Ratliff/Clemens/a rookie would have the same system under their belts for a few years which can only help them in the long run.
Here is a report on NFL.COM by Adfam Sheftler (sp?) on Shotty potentially being considered as HC of KC by Pioli.
http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/01/15/jets-must-choose-between-schottenheimer-ryan/
Mars, that’s interesting I hadn’t heard that but it says if we hire Ryan Schotty will leave. That changes things for me since I think I’d rather have Ryan than Schotty.
Also, the Lions just hired Schwartz from Tenn. as their head coach.
Mars, thats a good find but the article doesn’t make a lot of sense (nor does it link Schott specifically to KC or anywhere). Its premise is that teams like Schott, would hire him to be their head coach, BUT, and its a huge BUT, no one has contacted him yet to interview for a job, when countless other assistants who are under contract have been interviewing across the NFL??? Makes no sense. Would the author have us beleive that Schott is getting requests for interviews and telling them no, not interested because I interviewed for the Jets job and until that pans out one way or the other I’m not interested in interviewing anywhere else — but if he were turned down for the Jets job then he would make himself available to other teams and they of course would pounce on the opportunity to get the great Schott as their head coach?
I don’t buy it.
Liam, You make a good point but I’d guess Schotty’s first choice is the Jets job and everyone knows that he is in the running for it so they are waiting to see if he gets that job or not first and/or if he decides to stay as coordinator. Then if he decides to leave the Jets I think teams will pounce, according to this article
Liam, I agree with you but I remember someone questioning weather any other teams (besides Jets)were interested in Shotty as HC and this is the only thing I have seen.
any speculation about rex ryan going to KC? same regional factors that liam mentioned in favor of STL. plus, pioli is a pretty good talent evaluator for 3-4 defense… weird that he hasn’t even been mentioned for that job.
With most of our positions reasonably filled with decent talent, how come no one is talking about trading out of the first round or the possibility of future first round picks….especially with the array ofquarterbacks and players staying for their senior year next year. With some sucessfull coaching and game planning, i believe we can easily improve upon 9 wins, plus in my opinion our schedule may even be a bit easier for next year
Can Schotty just go away please!!!!!! why isn’t Eric taking him to Cleveland?