Link: Bill Barnwell Endorses Clemens
Yesterday on ESPN News, Newsday’s Eric [sic] Boland noted he had heard that there were some inside the organization that had “soured” on Kellen Clemens, presumably based on last summer and his 2007 campaign.
Meanwhile, Football Outsiders writer Bill Barnwell wrote on ESPN’s Insider section yesterday that he’s got a suggestion on who the Jets should be behind center come next September.
So now what? Are the Jets back at square one with regard to the quarterback position? Is former Utah quarterback Brett Ratliff ready to take over? Should the Jets turn to free agency or attempt to trade for a starter?
Our suggestion is to stick with Clemens, whom ESPN analyst Ron Jaworski regarded as better than both Vince Young and Jay Cutler entering the 2006 draft. (Jaws knows a thing or two about quarterbacks.) Research into college quarterbacks conducted by our David Lewin has shown that the only two factors that matter when judging college quarterbacks selected in the first two rounds of the NFL draft are completion percentage and games started.
Clemens completed 61 percent of the passes he threw at Oregon and started 32 games, numbers comparable to those of Eli Manning (60.8 completion percentage, 37 starts) and Drew Brees (61.1 completion percentage, 37 starts) on the high end and Patrick Ramsey (58.9 completion percentage, 32 starts) on the low end.
Merrill Hoge was similarly effusive about Clemens in 2006, but I’m much more likely to actually pay attention to Jaws than Hoge. Hearing from Boland that there might be folks from inside the building that are already passing final judgement on Clemens career strikes me as insane, and only confirms to me that sometimes being too close to something can make one myopic.
Barnwell goes on to further note that McNabb, Palmer, Bledsoe, Peyton and Eli all had worse starts than Clemens in terms of QB ratings and only buttresses the point that the verdict isn’t out on Clemens yet and to assume it is is beyond foolish.
Wag of the John Deere trucker hat to Alon Shapiro for sending this on.
62 Responses to Link: Bill Barnwell Endorses Clemens
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GregNJ says:
Those are some encouraging words and I do agree the verdict is still out on Kellen. To be honest Rex has to figure that he might as well give it a go with brett R. and kellen. We need to start somewhere and might as well do it this year so if anything happens and we fall flat on our faces with the QB situation we can go into next year knowing out QB experiment failed.
The young QBs that are successful in this league are those that have a good supporting cast as far as coaches go surrounding them. We’ve had 18 starting QBs since Namath; what’s that all about. That’s BS to be honest. How have we not developed anybody since then. The coaches really need to put all their time and energy in getting this situation straight. Forget drafting a QB we have other needs like another CB and another RB or Big-PLAY WR to fill in the draft.
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vinnywasthebest says:
he did under mang-dummy. he couldnt convince the brass that hes better than mediocre pennington so they took a huge gamble on that Favre guy.
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clemens may be ok, but he doenst have the physical tools to succeed. sorry. Hes 6′ with stilletos and cant see over mangolds shoulder. Ratliff has upside, but hasnt played in big games in college or against any real-deal defenses.
I read in one of the links in a previous post about Bulger. Theres goes an idea.
Btw, as my handle on this site goes, Vinny T really was the best qb since Namath. Up 10-0 in the AFC champoinship game was the closest weve been to a SB since SB 3.
I dont think ANYONE who is available in the draft or free agency will get us that close in the next 2 years. I hope everyone is going to be patient. psych. we ARE jets fans.
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EddieC says:
this morning im thankful for reading a column supporting clemens.
I’m tired of reading how the Jets should sign Kurt Warner, or would be interested if bulger became available, or the ridiculous idea of waiting the jailbird to come around.
Clemens had a TERRIBLE line, NO running game, a grusome schedule, and NOW he has a new recieving weapon in Dustin Keller. Its a whole new football team. I want to see what he’s got.
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I hope if he starts he will be good but, I just dont want to see a 7-9 season when we have a nice defense and running game.
Can he beat the patriots? thats the question, if we want this division we need to be able to beat them on the road.
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jp losman says:
I think the reason the jets have never developed a qb is because we as fans and the media of NYC don’t have the patience. Take vinny’s comment from above – ” medicre pennington”. It’s fans like him that have forced the hand Of the front office to make drastic moves. Fans and media think they know more than they do when in reality, they know squat.
Pennington took a far worse team than the jets to the playoffs this year.
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Lou says:
I think Kellen should have a fair chance this week, Schott was also high on him when he was drafted, I think if they will the offense to his strengths he will have a decent season… Our defense and run game will definetely keep us in the game.
Just think he does not have to constantly pass the ball we have a good running game..
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Is there anyone available right now that could beat the pats?
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Igs says:
I hate the seeming panic around this issue. we’re not exactly sitting pretty. And, It is an important decision. But we have some options to look at. we’re not backed into a corner. I’m waaaaaay more concerned about the WR situation. I really believe that if the Jets don’t get some speed and size into that receiving core, any QB you put back there fails, Just like Favre did. Extremely accurate QBs can work around lacking reciever size, like the Mannings and Tom Brady. But when you get these guys that are not RD 1, Franchise type QBs, and especially these guys with boomer arms, they need a receiver with a large radius to make up for inaccuracies.
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I know, I like pennington, but if he REALLY was doing so well in camp would they have taken the gamble on Favre? i was saying he was mediocre in camp, and I thought he would have this team at 10-6, and probably one and done in the playoffs. that’s realistic!
dowe want one and done in the playoffs or a SB appearance? for gods sake ill take a Cardinals-esque appearance in the Super bowl, anything is better than the up and down weve been having since the few consecutive non losing seasons from 98-2002.
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we need o-line depth in the draft. Not Sanchez. BTW.
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Dan in Ok says:
lgs, brady was taken in the 6th round, not the first.
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Bent says: I give it 45 minutes before Sack comes in and says that height should be included as a third factor in that Lewin projection system (not that I am mocking him – he did an outstanding job of defending that position this time last year).
Clemens’ projection last year by FO (had he been the starter was pretty good (I guarantee you’ll see the numbers and say “I’d settle for that”) and I’d imagine it will be similar this year). If you’re reading this, seanmac, please could you reiterate what it was?
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Razor Shines says:
“Can he beat the patriots? thats the question”
Clemens best game was the one against the 7-2 Steelers, when he led the team down for a final scoring drive to win the game. Jets were 1-8 with a horrible line and nothing going for them. He wasn’t superb (he wasn’t all year), but he showed poise, and I think that’s the question you are getting at.
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I think Ken O’Brien was the best QB we’ve had since Namath. He gets overlooked because Marino was drafted after him, but Todd Blackledge and Tony Eason were taken ahead of them too. We developed O’Brien and he had some really great years. I’m not saying he was top teir, just saying he is overlooked.
He has the NFL record for most passing yards (431) with a perfect rating (in the same year he outdueled Marino 479-448 in that OT win), he had that 10-1 start ruined by injuries (including his own broken finger), and some really great statistical years with Walker and Toon.
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Bent says:
Agreed. It’s too bad the failure of that Jets regime to put offensive talent on the field with those guys ultimately shortened his and Toon’s careers. Even then, Obie led the Jets to the postseason in 1991 (and almost beat the Oilers in the wildcard game) despite the fact I bet he would have struggled to run a forty yard dash in 5.5 seconds.
Loved that team. Hopefully, this new version will be just as enjoyable to watch and will actually live up to its potential.
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Freeman24 says:
While the comment that KC is 6′ in stilletos is really funny and his lack of ideal stature is my only real hesitation on the guy, take a look at all the pictures of him on the net standing next to Favre they are almost the same exact height. Favre didn’t suck until he got to the Jets.
It’s a no brainer to have Clemens as your leading candidate going into camp, he can move, has a really good arm and a quick release. Part of the reason they drafted him was his intellect as he did very well under three different offenses in his time in Oregon.
He played 7 damn games, thats not even close to enough time to gauge his ability and it was for a horrendous team. Don’t forget what Eli looked like. KC flashed potential in crunch/ situations.
Spend as little money as possible to bring in a vet that can start if both Clemens and Ratliff crap their pants and save the draft picks and the real money this year for making the team better around them.
If both young guys blow, you draft your QB of the future next year.
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SackDance99 says:
Bent, you stole my thunder. If you look at the Lewin factors and then look at those QBs that had decent Lewin rankings, but failed as a pro, it was primarily because the QB prospect was under 6-4. Now, everyone points to Drew Brees as the exception, but Brees was significantly better than Clemens and, for all intents and purposes, was a first-rounder in that he was the 1st pick of the second round. The other flaw in Barnwell’s “analysis” is that comparing his first-year to a pure rookie first-year QB is not an apples-to-apples comparison. McNabb, Bledsoe, Eli, Palmer and Peyton all started at least 6 games as a rookie and all of them materially improved their second-year as pros. KC had the benefit of two full NFL training camps, two pre-seasons, and one season running the scout team before he started a game. With all due respect to Barnwell, I have to imagine that all the guys he cited would have clearly benefited from such experience before starting.
So, Bassett, consider me “beyond foolish.” Clemens has structural problems with his game and he’s short. True story, why did Pioli/Belichick draft Brady (86.5 QB rating and Pro Bowler as a starter his second-year in the NFL…a true comparable to Clemens) over Tim Rattay? Brady is 4″ taller. But, according to Lewin (but not NFL scouts), size doesn’t matter.
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Ken O’Brien was second in my book after vinny(up 10-0 in AFC champ game! and then…), but i sure thought he was the man back then too… ah the memories. The days when we had a qb but not much else and today we have (pretty much) everything else but a hole at qb.
The main question is will we (as fans) be patient? will woody be? he has a stadium to fill and PSL’s to sell. I think were gonna get another Jets-like splash during free agency. Think trade for an established qb making big $ or unhappy (McNabb or Bulger) or 39 y/o vet (Garcia which wouldnt be too bad, cheap and effiecient)
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Freeman24, Favre in his first-year as a starter and second-year as a pro (like KC) took a 4-12 team to 9-7, made the Pro Bowl, completed 64% of his passes and ended up with an 85.3 QB rating. An under 6-4 QB can succeed in the NFL (although all the SB winning QBs this decade have been, at least, 6-4), but not one who lacks accuracy, pocket poise and defensive recognition skills. IMO, Clemens’ lack of size just exacerbates his tendency to be skittish in the pocket. I guess we’ll see an open competition between Ratliff and Clemens and, for the record, KC hasn’t won such a competition, yet. Also, like I’ve posted before, if you read between the lines what Kerry Rhodes said about Ratliff (effusive praise) and Clemens (lukewarm praise), you got the sense that a guy who should know what makes a good QB thinks Ratliff is better.
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I still can’t discuss the 80s Jets without getting upset. The talent squandered by poor coaching and the failure of Mr. Hess to notice that coaching was holding the Jets back ruined that team. Geez, if Buddy Ryan had coached the defense, we could’ve counted the Lombardi Trophies. I liked Bud Carson, but changing the Sack Exchange to a 3-4?!? Letting Salaam go? Moving Klecko inside? When Klecko and Gastineau were on the outside, unofficially, they had 40 sacks…40!!! All the offense had to be was competent and, it was much better than that, a killer running game with McNeil and Hector, a great quick strike passing game, a great TE. The AFC’s most talented team until Klecko went down and Gastineau quit.
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KevT says:
Start Clemens!
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cant a similar statement be made about the great team that Herm inherited from Parcells? Ugh another guy who destroyed and uncoached a great team. I thought in 2001 that we were a SB team.
We can be that this year too. We need a major coupe at qb and some depth at o-line to hedge against injuries. All the pieces are there for some serious potential in the next two years. It would be a shame to let this team get old with a sub-par qb!!!!!!!!!
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zenlaw says:
Even though Favre didn’t have his best season with the Jets, both Clemens and Ratliff gain the benefit of learning from Favre this past year. One of these two should be given the opportunity to start next year.
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Bri says:
Give Clemens a chance. He knows the system already. If he fails, then cut him, but hes gotta get that chance. Remember he was 3-4 with a terrible o-line. Not bad.
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kc. says:
Rex Remembers 2007, Game 2
Ryan was asked about the second game of the 2007 season, when Chad Pennington sat out with his injured right ankle and Clemens got his first pro start against Ryan’s burly, brawling Ravens defense in Crabcake City.
“I’m trying to get that out of my mind,” Ryan said with a chuckle. “Funny, everything was rolling along pretty well for three quarters. We had some issues in the secondary, and I remember not only Clemens had a big game but so did Cotchery — we couldn’t cover him. He gives me nightmares as well. … We felt fortunate to win that game.”
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aand that was with a GARBAGE o-line,NO running game,and a HORRIBLE defense.
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Drew says:
Anyone who judges Clemens based on 2007 needs to really get a grip. Our offense was anemic and the OL was easier to penetrate than a wet paper bag. Kellen deserves a shot with a real offensive line before he gets the hook.
I also don’t get why people are head-over-heels for Ratlff because of some preseason success.
I’m all for the competition, but I’d be surprised if Kellen doesn’t win the job. As far as the draft goes, I like Sanchez a lot, but I need some convincing he’s worth our #1 pick when we have many many more glaring needs.
Say he DOES fall to #17 and we get him, do we really think he’s the next Flacco or Ryan? I can’t seem him jumping Clemens or Ratliff in a few months.
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the original ian (lowercase I) says:
but how can bill barnwell possibly rely on the lewin projection system when it doesn’t account for the QB’s height? i mean really, shouldn’t it be games started and completion percentage times number of inches above 6’3″? i mean, height is the only sensible or reliable way to determine if clemens will be a good starter, right? we better just go with ratliff because he’s taller.
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DAVID says:
IM SICK OF THE JETS TRYING TO GRAB OTHER TEAMS QB’S WE NEED TO MOLD EITHER CLEMENS OR FOR ME PREFERABLE RATLIFF INTO A SUPERSTAR……DONT SIGN ANY QB IF ANYTHING SIGN A WR OR ANOTHER SAFETY TO COMPLIMENT RHODES OR EVEN RAY LEWIS I WOULDNT MIND THAT
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john r says:
i would say that he played really well against the ravens and we had a chance to win but justin M had another dropped pass for an easy td
also do you think farve help KC out at all. helping him get into a pre game routine, better understanding of coverages. i mean it seemed like it helped with rodgers , and hopefully it will with KC
we need so much more help than a new QB, someone on the defense side of the ball is a much better option
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Pete57 says:
All this QB discussion is fun, but in the end, the Jets will: A) Bring in a FA QB if they DEEM one an upgrade
B) Draft a QB only if they see him as a franchise player
C) Look at all the QB’s in camp and play the one THEY think gives them the best chance to win.Looking forward to seeing it play out.
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Sack. I respect your opinions a lot but think you are way over the top (pun intended) with the height stuff. There have been more than a few shorter qbs who’ve done well in recent years and judging KC by 8 games during an already lost season (read: team didn’t care anymore) behind an awful oline is unfair to him. I like Ratliff, too, but we haven’t seen a thing yet against a real team. That’s cool that Kerry likes him, but I imagine being the scout team qb is just a little less pressure than playing in a real game where you might get hit.
If Ratty wins the job outright, I’ll be more than happy to root for him, but it’s too soon to throw out KC based on what we’ve seen. BTW, nobody knows who would’ve won the job last year if the favre thing didn’t happen. Chad was leading based on the early weeks, but KC was gaining. The most important month of preseason had yet to be played (disclaimer: I was rooting for Chad). -
Drew, did you really watch Clemens in 2007? I mean he was AWFUL. To blame his performance entirely on a poor OL is a ridiculous argument. He played poorly against the Browns, at home, and the Browns had the worst passing defense in the NFL at that time. Moreover, there were plenty of other teams, like Miami, that had similarly poor OLs, but Cleo Lemon out-performed KC. He was the WORST starting QB in the NFL and his statistical performance has given nobody an indication that he will turn into even an adequate NFL QB.
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NYC Parking Expert, look I think most folks don’t understand my height argument…it only applies to draft prospects. I disagree with the Lewin factors because they rate QBs on straight numbers. Also, this argument came up last year because the argument was made that Clemens and Matty Ice were equal prospects under Lewin and I kept on saying, as you know, that height had to be a plus factor. I was right about Matty Ice and, unfortunately, I think I’m right about KC.
Some under 6-4 QBs have done well in the NFL, but I think its more than just a coincidence that no SB winning QB this decade has been under 6-4. So, if I were to start a franchise and choose a QB, I’d take Big Ben over Drew Brees every time. Not that Brees isn’t good, but I just think that for a whole host of reasons, a taller QB is ideal.
Now, isn’t it unfair to say that my criticism of KC is solely based upon height? I’ve repeatedly said that he’s inaccurate, skittish in the pocket and lacks good defensive recognition skills. Whether a QB is 6-0 or 6-6, if he has these flaws, he won’t make it in the NFL. Also, since the Jets are at the point where they should choose a franchise QB, wouldn’t a 6-4 or taller guy be better?
Lastly, the team never quit in 2007 and, in fact, KC was 3-5 and the team played real hard in losses to the Pats and Titans. Please just stop making excuses for KC. He stunk. I just don’t see why the Jets would want him as the franchise QB when the prototype franchise QB is now more Big Ben than Fran Tarkenton.
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Vincent says:
Kellen Clemmons has things that can’t be substituted. He has a 2 year head start on the playbook, the offense, and the players. He is the best option regardless of who is brought in. He has a strong arm, and is mobile in the pocket. He has also shown he can take a hit and pop back up, after he was repeatedly hit behind a bad offensive line in 2007. Even if this team were to draft a QB, he wouldn’t be better than KC this season. Clemmons is the best shot at winning in 09.
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brees runs the best offense in the league, but what kills the saints is there defense and what wins superbowls in the nfl are great defenses.
do you think big ben won his 1st super bowl or the defense and running game?also i know you said this decade, but remember 2 guys named steve young and joe montana were both 6’2 and there career s werent that bad and dan marino was 6’4
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Dan, I knooooow Brady is a 6th rounder but can we all agree that his best physical asset is either his pin point accuracy and his timing for receivers out of their breaks? He is more of a system QB than people think. But he can hold down the fort with a bunch of 5-11, 6, 6-1 receivers because of that.
We tend to get guys that are really smart but have noodle arms (Chad, Lucas – correct me if I’m wrong with Lucas) or guys that have great arm strength and low accuracy (Vinny). So a guy like Vinny, or Clemens is better off with a WR with a big Radius. I.e. you only have to throw the ball NEAR Larry Fitzgerald or like a young Randy Moss and they’ll take it. Remember when Keyshawn caught that ball from Chris Simms between his legs, that’s radius. The jets seem to take that for granted.
And I’m not knocking any of the guys we have. I’m just saying that’s the biggest missing piece, in my opinion.
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john r, again, I don’t say that an under 6-4 QB can’t be great (and Montana was 6-2 in an era when that was probably tall for QB), I’m saying that if you had your choice, wouldn’t you choose a 6-4+ guy for your franchise QB? Plus, to revisit this topic again, there’s one system where being shorter than 6-4 is an asset because of the need for greater mobility and that’s in the West Coast. Most great West Coast QBs are 6-2, like Montana, Young, McNabb (who started to decline as his mobility decreased), Garcia and Favre (at least early in his career, later his offense became much more vertical and was more tailored to his skills). The Jets don’t run the West Coast and, because the West Coast is heavily scripted (or should be) and relies on QB motion, KC might be tailor-made for the West Coast. Kurt Warner, Drew Brees and Tony Romo have all done well in non-West Coast offenses and are 6-2 or under. I just would rather have Rivers, Big Ben or Matt Ryan to build my franchise around. And, it’s not just height with KC…he has foundational problems.
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Tom says:
Cimini wrote the Jets would be interested in Bulger if he became available.
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so from the draft, what QB do you want. the top 2, stafford and sanchez should go to either detriot and then KC, then you are left with nothing i would spend a 1st rounder on
there is Josh Freeman from Kansas State who is a junior and big, but i dont think he is even close to a 1st rounder.
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john r, I like Freeman and, as of now, Kiper, McShay, Scott Wright and Scouts,Inc. all put him in the first round and, as I’ve posted before, Freeman’s last 2 seasons mirror Jay Cutler’s last 2 seasons at Vandy. It’s hard to have great completion numbers and low INTs when the team around you sucks. Plus, I think Freeman has a better skill set than Cutler…he’s taller, more mobile and a load at 250 lbs. Whether he is actually better than Cutler is a different story, but they have pretty similar numbers (and Freeman did have 14 rushing TDs last season…he was pretty much the whole offense).
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Bulger as a vet to teach a prospect like Freeman is fine, but for a longer term solution…no way. Isn’t anyone else tired of stop-gap solutions? The Jets need a franchise QB.
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BubbyBrister/shovelpass says:
Be careful Sack, when you say, ” I’ve repeatedly said that he’s inaccurate, skittish in the pocket and lacks good defensive recognition skills”
…they used to say that about the other QB from New York just before his team won the Super Bowl…
I know you love stats, Dude. And QB height is a telling stat for winning Super Bowl QBs. But it is the same telling stat as no QB that threw for the most yardage in any given year has ever won a SB. I don’t think you can trust it . It would be like saying Obama had no chance.
Know-what-I-mean-Vern?
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Sack
You’re speaking my language. I’m sooooo tired of stopgap solutions. And by now, so should you’re front office be.
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Sack, I understand your height argument perfectly and it makes a lot of sense to me when you are considering drafting a guy. Now they pulled the trigger and have him (and theoretically took his height into consideration when evaluating him), I don’t see it as a reason to not give him a shot. Now about his fundamental issues, I just don’t think he got a fair shake in 07. I’m not making excuses for him, he had awful numbers, and won 3 games. Chad had much better numbers, and won 1 game. I’m not pulling for KC, not at all. I am just against deciding that he had his shot and now he’s done based on the body of work we’ve seen. Would I choose a taller qb (with good skills) over a shorter guy with those same skills? Absolutely. Would I decide a 2nd round draft picks time has come because of 8 games played in a lost season? Never. He has to come to training camp and make that decision easy, either by looking like he deserves the job or by not looking so great. I will say that if it’s neck and neck between he and Ratty, give the job to Brett based on his upside. KC has had 3 years, his time is now – or never.
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For Sack and anyone else who’s interested, EBola has these snippets from a conference call with Ratliff on his blog:
“I’m very confident. I’m going to continue to work this offseason like I did last offseason. I’m going to keep working as hard as I can to get better in anyway possible. One thing I’m grateful for is that Brian Schottenheimer is coming back. It’s great to be in a system for a third year. I’m very confident in what’s to come.”
Ratliff said he has talked to Ryan.
“A great conversation,” Ratliff said. “He said in his eyes it was an open competition, that there will be an opportunity for you, and that’s all I can ask for, the opportunity to show my abilities.”
Ratliff said he has been fine going the route of the undrafted quarterback trying to make it big.
“I’ve been overlooked,” Ratliff said, mentioning that he had to go the junior college route. “That’s just what I’m used to.”
Ratliff added later: “That’s not going to stop me,” and “I’ll keep pushing until I reach my goal and that’s to be a starting quarterback.”
Ratliff said characterized his relationship with Clemens as “great.”
“Our wives hang out,” Ratliff said. “In my opinion we’re good friends. I hope that doesn’t change. I don’t think it will. Kellen likes competition just as much as I do. I think we’ll both embrace it.”
He said he picked Favre’s brain on occasion.
“Not everyone gets the opportunity to play with a veteran of his status,” Ratliff said. “It was a great opportunity.”
An opportunity Ratliff said he’s been preparing for since the season ended.
“The way I [approached it] was even if Brett came back, I was going to prepare myself as if I was going to be the starter,” Ratliff said. “If he was going to come back, great, that would be one more year you play and learn under him. If not, that’s a chance to battle for the starting job.”
* Ratliff, in case you struggled in finding the overall numbers, had a strong 2008 preseason. He was 32-for-47 for 499 yards with an AFC-best four TDs and a conference-best 122.5 rating. In the preseason opener against the Browns – a 24-20 Jets victory – Ratliff went 14-for-20 for 252 yards and two long touchdowns – a 70-yarder and 71-yarder – both to David Clowney.
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Im not a scout but Freeman was real inconsistent in college.
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bubbybrister, it not just random. There’s a reason why the QB that throws for the most yardage usually doesn’t win the Super Bowl…the team he faces in the playoffs usually has a good enough defense that it can shut down the passing game or slow it down with it’s own long drives. Also, some of it is dumb luck, like the Giants beating the Pats.
Same with the 6-4 QB. It’s a trend based upon certain football realities. O-linemen and D-linemen are taller now…if you’re a pocket passer, you want the ability to see over the line. The shorter you are, the more you have to move…we’re talking fractions of seconds, but those miliseconds are crucial. Guys like Brees and Romo compensate by moving around effectively, Warner has a lightning quick release.
I also don’t know anything about the Obama analogy, except he was the front-runner as soon as he beat out Hillary…what’s the lesson in that? He won on a platform of “Change.” Well, I want “Change” too. A stud franchise QB drafted in the first round to replace the underwhelming options that the Jets have now. I also want Freeman, who would be the first African-American QB drafted in the first round by either the Jets or Giants…CHANGE!!!!
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Simon Gribben says:
Clemens never made the splash that Young and Cutler did, so let’s give Ratliff the chance along with Ainge and Clemens (I deliberately put him last from what he hasn’t shown so far–if he becomes the 2nd coming of Joe Montana–play the SOB!)
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Tom, I would agree that Freeman was inconsistent…he was on a bad team. But, his overall numbers were solid and he played out of a pro style offense. Cutler was inconsistent, too. Look, Freeman’s not a “can’t-miss” prospect, that’s why he’ll likely be available at 17. IMO, the only “can’t -miss” guys available at 17 will be Moreno and Wells. What he has is size, arm strength and mobility that is rare to find. In fact, I can’t recall any QB built like he is…most of the bigger guys are thickly built (Culpepper, Russell or Big Ben) or a little gawky (Flacco, Ainge). Freeman looks thin at 6-6 250 and has the fluidity of a basketball player. He’s a freak with a real cannon-arm…maybe as strong as Stafford’s and much stronger than Sanchez, who is no slouch. He’d have the strongest arm on the Jets by a wide margin. I think because of his upside, he’s worth the modest gamble of the 17th pick. FWIW, I’d rather take Freeman at 17 than either Stafford or Sanchez in the top 10.
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I really don’t think Freeman is a 1st round guy the more I read up on him. It’s hard to get film on him doing the wrong thing, but I her about a big guy with a strong arm and bad accuracy and I think Vinny Testeverde. And I didn’t like Testerverde too much.
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mtb says:
if macreins catches that ball against baltimore we would not be having this conversations and there would not have been a favre era in NY
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Give clemens the ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Spend the money on defense, bart scott …..please. and even leonard as safety
Draft cb, wr, ol
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mtb,
Why did it take so long to figure out that McCareins wasn’t the guy?
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He never went to the ball. i’ve never seen a guy that tall with no radius.
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yea he sucked and with that drop cost clemens his career, it would have solidified his spot………….blame all on macreins
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The Titans knew that. I’d say blame the FO!!!
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Darius Heyward-Bay!!!
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Prince says:
IMHO, the right thing to do is to sign Byron Leftwich and let him compete with Clemens, with Ratliff as the 3rd and Ainge on the practice.
I can’t find my old Football Outsiders book from before he got cut, but the guys there were as high on Leftwich as any QB going into the year. I did find this from 2006, with quote below:
http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/footballoutsiders/San_Francisco_49ers/27839
(I guess we can debate about how good Byron Leftwich can be when he hits his peak, but it is my opinion — and I think the opinion of everyone else on the FO staff — that Leftwich is getting a bit of a raw deal in Jacksonville, and if the Jaguars get rid of him and hand the full-time job to David Garrard next year, they will regret it.)
Just saying, low risk, veteran guy, who can probably run a ball-control, run first offense and at worst costs a few million?
I don’t want to see retreads like Kerry Collins, all due respect.
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dcjetsfan says:
We def need to find some stability…in the last 3 years we have used a 2nd round pick on Clemens, a 3rd on Favre. Just need to find a long term answer. Not to mention a 5th on Ainge although I am Ok with this if he can stick around for a while at a cheap $ amount.
Anderson is the only UFA/RFA that has any real upside IMO. If we’re not going to get one of the top QB’s this year, then don’t burn a pick. when we could address other need positions. Stafford seems like the best but almost no chance he falls to 17. Sanchez lack of experience scares me?
Clemons has never gotten a fair shake with this.