Rex Ryan’s Confident Running Game Will Ease Transition
Tim Graham notes that Rex Ryan is planning on taking pressure off the quarterback position this year by running the ball a lot more.
“We’re going to run the ball,” Ryan said Wednesday on a conference call. “We’re going to run it more this year. When you got Thomas Jones and Leon Washington, that’s a strength there. There’s a lot of positives about our offense.”
Ryan pointed out all the offensive components that will be back. Ryan called the Jets’ offensive line, which will remain intact, “one of the premier offensive lines in the league.” Jones and Washington made the Pro Bowl. Offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer and offensive line coach Bill Callahan were retained.
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The Jets consistently won when they ran. They were 7-2 when Jones scored a rushing touchdown. They went 2-5 when he didn’t score a touchdown. They were 2-6 when he had 17 or fewer carries.
Ryan politely declined to explain the trends because he wasn’t around then.
I’ll answer for him: The more Favre threw, the more he killed the Jets. Favre’s departure will be addition by subtraction for the offense.
Man, I hope so. Favre provided some level of defenses playing back (granted potentially for the sole purpose of intercepting his passes deep down the field) but his presense did loosen up things for the running game, no question.
Whether the next guy can say the same, we’ll have to see, but I think that the balance and success of the running game could be a little more difficult to maintain without someone like Favre.
98 Responses to Rex Ryan’s Confident Running Game Will Ease Transition
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ridinmywave says:
Great post, and obviously numbers don’t lie.I like ryan’s philosophy which is quite simple and that’s the way it always should have been, isn’t that what this team was built for? I didn’t like the notion that favre opened up our run game..BS! Teams still stuffed 8 in the box at times and ironically that’s where we would break for looong TD runs….seems like the work of a great o-line if you ask me…
Hopefully this is him furthering the notion that there WILL be an open competition at qb this offseason, and that they look elsewhere than trying to take a qb at 17.
I think there are other desperate holes that need to be plugged that can make more of an immediate impact compared to having to develope another qb throughout the season, and from what I see not ONE qb in this years draft seems seasoned enough to come in and lead a team from the get go…..ecspecially sanchez.
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hank/naples says:
Bassett:
I’m liking this guy more and more every day. He is smart to continue to build off what Mangini started. Keep bashing Mangini and Schottenheimer guys but you will all be proven wrong, again, this year.
I’m more optimistic now about our 10+ wins + Playoffs prediction this year. Go Jets !
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Bassett:
Disclaimer: My playoff guarantee is void if Farve unretires and plays for the Jets. Then we are doomed to live in hell.
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brian311 says:
I think the FO should focus resources on the defense – that is what will win games next year. the offence was good this year, but the majority of points scored were because of the cupcake schedule and that aint happening next year. I don’t think the offense is going to be great with either KC or Ratty, even if they added a Macklin or Moreno to the mix. But with Scott, a 1st round CB or pass rusher, and a capable backup to big Jinx, we could have the makings of a 2000 ravens defense. instruct schotty to hand the ball off 40+ times per game and rely on the D
What I am saying is that I don’t think an average/slightly above average offense and defense will lead the team very far. But an average offense (without 22 INTs) and a GREAT defense…that might be the recipe for success.
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DaveTN says:
We’ll have to see whether the running game suffers from lack of respect for the QB. Clemens can launch INTs pretty far downfield as well, right? Maybe he can even complete one or two. Call me crazy, but I’m willing to let the Jets try to be the conservative, run-first-keep-the-defense-fresh team that they were going to be last year before they traded for old #4.
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Someone better tell B-Schott that we are going to be running the ball more….. I wouldnt even draft a QB. I would draft a RB before I draft another young QB. I like our QB’s. I beleive in KC and Ratty has shown some signs but i really like Ainge. I think he has the talent and makeup to be a starter in the NFL. Unless we can get a really good FA QB. Which we can’t!!! I am ready to load up on D and OL, RB, WR in the draft and FA and go to battle in 2009
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SackDance99 says:
It’s the time to add a first-round quality QB. Draft Freeman and let’s see what a 6-6, 250 lb, mobile, cannon-armed freak can do for the next 10 years. With a solid running game and the ridiculous potential that Freeman provides, he’s the perfect choice. Out with the old, and in with the new. Rex, turn the franchise around and begin by drafting a QB to build around, not another series of stop-gap measures.
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ramble914 says:
I still cannot figure out, nor understand why we didn’t “play-action” the hell out the NFL last season. Teams would not have been able to crowd the box, and if they did we should have been able to kill them with Keller over the middle or with Cotchey on a slant. If they played 7 or less in the box we should have been able to run all over an opposing defense.
Instead we used that stupid empty backfield with Favre in the shotgun, the only thing that accomplished was alerting the opposition we were going to pass. I hope it was Mangini’s doing and not Schottenheimers offensive philosphy.
I would imagine that play-action passing would be equally as effective this year, as I’m assuming we will be able to run the ball effectively.
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Sack,
To tell you the truth, I’d rather draft Freeman over Sanchez or Stafford. I think Freeman has more upside than the other two.
I would love to have a 6-6, 250lb QB who can throw the ball 60 yds down field on the run.
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JustAGreenGuy says:
People keep saying no QB from this draft class is ready to come in and produce. Flacco came form a shotgun only division 2 school. I would have bet the farm that he couldn’t take a team to the playoffs. He wasn’t the reason they made it, but the team around him was good enough to support him. I think we can support a guy that way too. For maybe the first time in a long time.
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JtotheEtotheTtotheS! says:
Thoughts about a trade for Leinart, Bulger, David Car?
Just want to see reactions…
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Im not saying a kid cant come in an play from the draft. I just think we have 3 kids on the team that have been in B-Schotts system for 1-3 years and can make plays and won t cost 1st round QB money. I think KC or Ratty can win with the O-line and running game we have. With that said I am praying for Rex to dial up a top 10 defense.
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charleyjet says:
The running game and defense was supposed to be the plan last year, before the unfortunate flirtation with a certain over-the-hill Hall of Fame quarterback. I think it is the way to go.
I don’t see anything immediately helpful in this draft at quarterback. I would be happy to see a veteran of the calibre of a Bulger or Garcia added to the mix and an open competition for the job. I think Clemens may surprise some people, especially if we can add a down the field receiving threat. That should be a draft priority.
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Harlan Lachman says:
Football is a team game. No one piece is that important (unless the other pieces are suspect).
If Rex gets G to perform, Barrett is replaced with a viable CB, we sign Leonard to stabilize the safety position and a Scott to shore up the middle, perhaps our D becomes more dominating, less susceptible to giving up so many points to teams like the Pats.
If we upgrade WR or Clowney gets a viable chance and performs, perhaps our enhanced D and running game takes enough pressure off our QB.
And, if all of this happens, perhaps Ratliff or Clemens will be sufficient.
I stand with those who want to ignore QB and invest FA dollars in young players who will fill holes in our D or be a number 1 WR, with those willing to replace Moore with a G or T (moving Woody back in) at the same or less cost, and those who want to draft CB or WR with a guy who will play immediately.
harlan
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The Ed(itor) says:
Everbody is throwing Brett under the bus now. But nobody was throwing Brett under the bus when we were 8-3. Sometime either in the Titans or Broncos game Brett got hurt. Which meant we had to rely on our rushing game more. But guess what, our rushing game didn’t show up the last 5 games of the year. So Brett had to throw more despite being hurt.
So while relying on our rushing game more sounds great, let’s see how it works out. Brett’s passing opened up the rushing game, not vice versa. So without a viable passing game the JETS will see 8 men in the box a lot. Not very condusive to running the ball.
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Bent says: JtotheEtotheTtotheS! – My reaction in all three cases is no thanks.
Leinart is no more proven than the guys we have (and his arm is a bad fit with the Meadowlands winds).
Bulger is too old.
Carr is too crappy.
On the whole though, I do prefer trading for a young QB to drafting one in the first ten (especially in the first five picks) because the financial risk is very low. At 17 though, there isn’t much of a financial risk anyway, so I am not averse to the drafting of a QB there.
I still think the biggest need is MIKE LB, but that will hopefully be addressed before the draft.
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subwayfare says:
It irritates me when people get too enamored with trend numbers without looking past them. Sometimes it’s poor game planning and play calling but sometimes the defense just isn’t going to allow you to run the ball – especially if you advertise that’s all you’re going to do – and you better have a plan B.
Favre should definitely have retired, he doesn’t have the stamina to play well over a full season anymore, but anyone who thinks he didn’t aid the running game or contribute significantly to those midseason wins is just being blinded by his late season implosion or general dislike of the man.
The Jets have a better running game than Baltimore but without something comparable to Flacco’s downfield threat the Jets won’t be as successful offensively. Maybe with a better O-line and running game KC will perform better but I’m wary of making too many excuses for his poor play in ’07. Ratliff looked great against 2nd and 3rd teamers but is definitely still a big question mark. I’m not crazy about Leftwich or any of the FA’s out there so I have to hope that one of those two surprises me and everyone else.
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Brett got hurt against the Raiders. Hence the short passes that worked so well against the Titans and Pats. You could see him grimace after the Raider’s game where he was a joke. Brett wasn’t the reason we were 8-3. We only won when he managed the game. We ran great against 8 in the box too.
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Editor- we didn’t run nearly as much as we should have during the collapse. Check the numbers. Why do I even read your posts? 40 passes in the snow ring a bell?
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Dean Barbella says:
I’m with ya, Bassett!
I was skeptical when Mangini went down as the fall guy, but the combination of Sexy Rexy at the helm with Brett Favre’s departure equals addition by substraction and some new found dough-ray-me!
This is the Perfect “Smashmouth” Storm! We can use some of this Balitimore Jack to fill our needs at Safety and Linebacker with a couple of Ryan’s boys and fill our corner and nose guard (deapth) needs through the draft.
Like Rex says, Kellen will be fine, playing mistake free football from behind a rebuilt offensive line and strong running game ala Big Ben Roethlisberger’s rookie season… and don’t surprised that Kellen surprises!
’09 Jets are shaping up to be the team I’ve always wanted!
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Pete57 says:
I would be very happy if Rex turns us into the Titans/ Ravens model. I think the jury is still out on Flacco. My opinion is that he will be good, but they coached “around” him all year, and then he was exposed in the playoffs. As far as our QB situation I would be fine with all of the above. If a solid player is available when we pick, great. It does not appear there is a QB worth trading up for though. I’d also be agreeable to bringing in a FA to compete. Of all available, Leftwich intrigues me the most, for his size, arm strength and age. But the big picture should be establishing the run, and stopping the run, as always. Can’t waite for the draft. It also seems that the atmosphere around the team will be much looser and open, which will be very welcome.
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Rex Ryan reminds me of John Candy.
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Yeah, but John Candy circa 1984.
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He was huge when he passed away
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Frank says:
I think Bulger would be a good pickup if KC and Ratliff aren’t thought worthy of the starting job. He’s not too old (he’s only 31 with only about 6 full years in the pros) and was very productive until the rest of the Rams team and Orlando Pace fell apart.
Still think the Jets need better wideouts. Or at least a replacement for Coles. Sure the 2006 Chargers didn’t have great wideouts but they had one of the best O-lines in the league, and two of the all-time greats at RB and TE (LT and Gates).
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TOON2388 says:
Clemens is the QB. No disrespect to many of you, but I have a lot more confidence in Ron Jaworski than the green bleeding KC bashers.
I love Ryan coming out and saying we will run the ball more – that statement just opened up the play action game
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AL says:
We need a 3rd and 1plow you over back. Thomas jones doesn’t get the tough yards. We need a third RB that’s 250 and can pound it. Then we may have something. Because if you want to run the ball you need to be successful in short yardage. I would be curious if anyone knows our stats in short yardage situations last year when we ran the ball.
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Al, I’d like that as well. Caulcrick could be that guy. Otherwise, those types of backs are available on day 2 of the draft. I wouldn’t be upset with picking an everydown back who has short yardage ability though, say in round 2 or 3.
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Amsterdam says:
what we need is a time machine to trade down in last year’s draft and pick up flacco :D
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JAGG:
Farve had that injury before he signed with us. He thought he could play all year with it. It showed how much he valued his prsonal records over the team goals and never even suggested to be rested. What a disgrace and some peole continue to be suckered by this guy.Clemens will start unless our real Brett plays lights out during camp AND preseason.
Also,It really doesn’t matter who starts, KC or BR, as long as they don’t throw 22 interceptions or throw more than one TD in the 4th QTR in the las 13 (thirteen) weeks. I’m sure we will realize our potential this year. I say atleast 10 wins AND the playoffs.
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or trade up and drafted Matty Ice.
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hank/naples,
Be careful what you wish for, KC had 10 INTs in 8 games…what happens if you do the math…. :-)
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2 less INTs than Favre.
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Harvlis says:
Ramble,
Totally agree. We didn’t use deception or play-action enough. When we did use it, it was obvious. Now that we have declared that we will be a running team — it makes the play-action and pump fakes all the more potent. Although, I acknowledge the greatness of Favre — I hated his play action. If I was teaching the art, I would show films of Chad. You want separation and open receivers — play action is the key.Al,
Much of our 3rd down problems stemmed from play calling and formations. It is much harder to run for that yard, when the other team knows what is coming. There were way too many times that we would line up, needing that yard or two, and run an obvious, vanilla play, out of an obvious formation. Opposing teams study tendencies. If we mix up our third down plays — we wouldn’t have to look elsewhere for a back, to handle third downs. -
Jerry says:
We have three good 3rd & short receivers who can catch the quick outs or slants over the middle. If we threw the short pass on 3rd & one more often, we could run up the middle at will.
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JAGG, KC also had only 5 TDs…over 16 games that would be 12 less than Favre…I think I’d take Favre in that context.
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A QB’s success is always based on the surrounding cast. You give a good QB a solid O-Line, a blocking FB, a talented RB, a quality TE, and some sure-handed recievers – he becomes a star. You give him less, good luck.
Stats can mean squat, at times.
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Kyle says:
Man, if only we had kept Chad Pennington and run the ball more last year…
Seriously, I hope there are no Brett Favre fans left on this website.
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SackDance99,
Klemens was also playing behind an inferior offensive line. Every defense that Clemens faced know Clemens would have to win the game with his arm, because there was no running game.
Favre did a pretty horrendous job at QB this season, considering who was blocking for him, and how powerful his running game was. Brett Favre was the one that couldn’t keep up.
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BTW,
All these Favre fans, shut the hell up. He doesn’t care about any of you. You all look silly.
Sack,
Are you really trying to justify your point by taking statistics from two years ago, when the team had totally different players, and theoretically applying it to what will happen this season? Does that make your head hurt? Mine too.
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18andOne says:
Does anyone find it interesting that in Favre’s press conference, he stated that ONE of the three quarterbacks still on the Jets roster is capable of leading the team? From the statement it appears that the ONE is not Ainge, so we can narrow it to Clemens and Ratliff. I wonder who he had in mind???
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Freeman24 says:
Since no one wants to account for the fact that KC was a rookie starter when he put up those numbers (on a horrible team), I figured I’d help by identifying some other prominent QBs “1st year” starting numbers for you all
McNabb – 6 Starts – Comp 49% – 7 Ints (6 lost fumbles)
Eli – 7 Starts – Comp 48.2% – 6TDs 9 Ints
Petyon – First 7 starts – 54% – 9TDs 14 Ints
M. Hasselback – First 7 starts – 55% 4 TDs 5 Ints (24 Sacks)
Maybe we shouldn’t be jumping off the ledge just yet and give the guy a fair shot, a full season, behind an NFL caliber O’Line.
Sack – How can you defend Favre’s performance in any context. 2TDs – 9Ints down the stretch, blew the playoffs, let Chad win the division for the Phish in our house. I don’t get it, the team completely sucked when KC put up his numbers and if he played 16 games he would have put up better numbers down the stretch (Ryan Leaf would have)
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Listen, SackDance99 exists in a delusional fantasy world.
None of what he says has any true research or thought behind it. He is simply trying to find ways to defend a has-been QB.
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Sorry forgot Troy Aikman which is probably a good comparison considering his team sucked too.
11 Starts – 52.9% 9TDs 18Ints and only 1,749 YDs
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Jets-Fan-4-Life says:
With all this talk about getting a veteran quarterback makes me a little concerned. I think instead of wasting millions and/or a draft pick on a free agent / draftee, why haven’t the Jets front office thought of hiring Brett Favre as a Quarterback Coach / Assistant.
It doesn’t affect the cap.
It would keep Brett part of the Jets franchise.
Brett could still have a part of the game which he loves so much.
His family would no longer have to worry about him getting injured.
Most importantly for himself, he would still feel productive and needed.I know this is a stretch, but just think about the possibilities of him as a coach. Brett with his wealth of knowledge teaching, instilling his experiences and insight on the younger quarterbacks, and them having the opportunity to ask Brett Favre for guidance and advice.
That’s what I would call a veteran presence!
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I’m a little surprised by the SD99 bashing – he happens to be one of the more intelligent posters on this board (if a bit biased against KC the midget).
I think what he might say to your posts about other rookie QBS and their bad stats is that they were true rookies, while KC was in year two and had spent his whole time in the same system with the same OC. That being said, I do want to see what he can do this year, at least in camp. -
LMAO
NO MORE BRETT! NO MORE BRETT!
I DON”T EVEN WANT HIM WATCHING OUR GAMES FROM THE NOSEBLEEDS SECTIONS.
Get this guy as far away from the team as possible.
Do you honestly think this guy is going to coach? Hahahahaha! He wouldn’t even help Aaron Rodgers learn the ropes in GB!
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I posted this on another thread, but since this was is getting some play, I thought I’d post it here, too. Hope you don’t mind, Bassett. It’s highlights from EBola’s Conf call with Ratliff:
“I’m very confident. I’m going to continue to work this offseason like I did last offseason. I’m going to keep working as hard as I can to get better in anyway possible. One thing I’m grateful for is that Brian Schottenheimer is coming back. It’s great to be in a system for a third year. I’m very confident in what’s to come.”
Ratliff said he has talked to Ryan.
“A great conversation,” Ratliff said. “He said in his eyes it was an open competition, that there will be an opportunity for you, and that’s all I can ask for, the opportunity to show my abilities.”
Ratliff said he has been fine going the route of the undrafted quarterback trying to make it big.
“I’ve been overlooked,” Ratliff said, mentioning that he had to go the junior college route. “That’s just what I’m used to.”
Ratliff added later: “That’s not going to stop me,” and “I’ll keep pushing until I reach my goal and that’s to be a starting quarterback.”
Ratliff said characterized his relationship with Clemens as “great.”
“Our wives hang out,” Ratliff said. “In my opinion we’re good friends. I hope that doesn’t change. I don’t think it will. Kellen likes competition just as much as I do. I think we’ll both embrace it.”
He said he picked Favre’s brain on occasion.
“Not everyone gets the opportunity to play with a veteran of his status,” Ratliff said. “It was a great opportunity.”
An opportunity Ratliff said he’s been preparing for since the season ended.
“The way I [approached it] was even if Brett came back, I was going to prepare myself as if I was going to be the starter,” Ratliff said. “If he was going to come back, great, that would be one more year you play and learn under him. If not, that’s a chance to battle for the starting job.”
* Ratliff, in case you struggled in finding the overall numbers, had a strong 2008 preseason. He was 32-for-47 for 499 yards with an AFC-best four TDs and a conference-best 122.5 rating. In the preseason opener against the Browns – a 24-20 Jets victory – Ratliff went 14-for-20 for 252 yards and two long touchdowns – a 70-yarder and 71-yarder – both to David Clowney.
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It isn’t bashing, it is a matter of fact.
You can’t sit here and tell me Kellen Clemens is going to be a bad QB next year. You have no idea. Assume has the word a** in it.
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Not to mention it that victory was a 4th quarter comeback for Ratliff.
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Eddie DiGio says:
Ryan isnt stupid, when you have TJ and Leon and a suspect secondary, you take time off the clock by pounding the football. We have the line coming back and a coach with B@LLS. Id like to see what Schottenhiemer can do without fat boy chewing his gum on the sidelines. I cant believe Hank still talks about Mangini like he is the second coming of Lombardi. Mangina was just as much to blame for the collapse as Favre was,and got deservedly ****canned for it. His own players were happy to see him leave and they quit on him the last game of the season. I really like what Im seeing from Rex Ryan, who is the complete opposite of the overwieght, personality-less, football geek who valued boy-scouts over football players. That philosophy works if you are coaching D-3 Weslyan, not an NFL franchise with playoff talent.
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SackDance99:
I guess you, like most people on this blog ( Bent, Harvlis, Jas, Johnny Styne and others) only read what makes them happy.
You failed to respond in your comment to me when i said that Farve WAS INJURED BEFORE he signed with the Jets. What kind of dirtbag puts his personal records before team goals. Here is one quote of several:
” Favre was asked if there was a specific hit or just NFL old age that led to his injury. He said he may have felt the first twinges in back when he resumed throwing again this summer before the trade.”
What do you think?
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Hank,
I’ll answer that question for you since you’ve never been an athlete before in your life. At a position like football or pitcher that requires large number of throws, you begin in the spring or summer to work out to bulid your arm up to being able to handle a season’s worth of work. During that time soreness is part of process. EVERYONE’s arm hurts in OS workouts and you work through the pain. Your not gonna know something is terribly wrong until you start in full pads and most of the time its too late. There is also a sense of resposibility after just being traded for and making 12 mil (since you love to count everyone’s money) to be out there on the field earning your money. It’s an issue of pride and self-respect that anyone who has ever COMPETED has to have in order to be successful. Football is a game of violent collisions, no one is 100% out there. NFL football players are taught to play with and through pain, in doing so that is how you earn the respect of your peers: not by going to the nurse. I just dont get how you can be mad at a guy for going out there banged up when the guys behind him couldnt wear his jock. That’s the kind of stuff leaders are made of and HOF’s do. While Favre arms and legs are undoubtley not what they once were, his heart was in the right place. Time caught up with him and he’s finished, you’ll get no argument there. For you to say he sabatoged the Jet season for his records is a biased and ridiculous statement. You sound like the guy who loved to tell the football team what they did wrong on gameday, but never could suit up cause the game was just a little “too rough”. Go ahead tell me I’m crazy, you still dont know sqaut about football -
Bent says:
Hank said:
“I guess you, like most people on this blog ( Bent, Harvlis, Jas, Johnny Styne and others) only read what makes them happy.”
Out of all the people who use this site, I don’t think there’s anyone who fits that description better than you, Hank.
Again and again and again and again I have demonstrated to you how balanced and rational my approach to the Favre saga has been (how I didn’t want him at the time, didn’t want him to come back next season, but that it was my right to root for the team no matter what) and yet you still call me a “Favre Worshipper” and accuse me of being biased towards him just because I felt it necessary to defend some of your more ridiculous assertions about Favre and respect some of the things he has achieved over his career.
Getting pretty sick of it to be honest.
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Bent:
You said ….”Again and again and again and again I have demonstrated to you how balanced and rational my approach to the Favre saga”
Balanced ? Show me one of your posts where you have mentioned one negative fact about this guy and not spent the rest of your post highlighting how great he was/is.Also you said… .” accuse me of being biased towards him just because I felt it necessary to defend some of your more ridiculous assertions about Favre”
Ridiculous? Show me where I said in anyone of my posts a comment about this dirtbag that were ridiculous. Maybe you din’t like them, but ridiculous ?
See Bent, you proved my point. All Farve worshipers read and respond to what makes them happy. You totally ignored the important issue that Farve had this injury BEFORE his signed signed with the Jets. All Farve apologists are always make excuses and suck-up to this guy.
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Bent says:
I don’t think so somehow.
It was my opinion that calling Favre (a family man with guys who respect him throughout the league) “a scumbag” was ridiculous, as was going on and on about the color of his shoulder pads, his facial expressions during press conferences and the occassions when you posted comments such as “[expletive] Favre”.
He didn’t have the injury before he signed with the Jets – he just admitted to being banged up, but felt he could play through it and admitted he was surprised when he couldn’t make the throws any more in the Seattle game. He tore his bicep in the Raiders game. You cannot criticise him for playing through pain and underperforming to the detriment of the team and then make excuses for Pennington (who I loved by the way) when he did the same thing in 2007 and 2004. It’s hypocritical. (I know you won’t respond to this point because you choose to ignore everything that doesn’t make you happy).
I wasn’t surprised when he couldn’t make the throws any more – I said before the trade that he looked like an old man in that Giants playoff loss and that we couldn’t really afford him unless he took a paycut – how does that make me sound like a Favre worshipper? (I know you won’t respond to this point because you choose to ignore everything that doesn’t make you happy).
Apologist I might accept (although I have only defended him when I felt you were being unfair), but to call me a Favre worshipper is just nonsense. How many times do I have to remind you that I didn’t want him here? (I know you won’t respond to this point because you choose to ignore everything that doesn’t make you happy).
And none of this makes me happy so how can I be only responding to what makes me happy?
You said before that my view was unbalanced so I made a long post to prove that I wasn’t. Didn’t you read it? I guess not, because it didn’t make you happy. Oh, well then I guess you have just proved MY point.
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Bent says:
Here was the previous post which you (unsurprisingly) chose to ignore:
“Maybe you didn’t see me blame him for any of the Jets problems this year, but I can assure you there were many occasions when I did (see below), but as a Jets fan I continued to support the team and hope for his performances at the end of the year to be more like some of the great performances we had seen earlier in the season and while he was still with the Packers.
On the flipside, I didn’t see you blame any of the Jets problems on anything other than Favre. Again this is where we differed most. I blamed their failings on many factors (including Favre on occasion although, as you say, you missed this), whereas you were only ever prepared to blame it all on Favre.
Off the top of my head, here are some of the occasions where I criticized Favre:
Early in the season I wrote two parodies mocking the fact that some Jets fans were deifying Favre.
After the Chiefs game, I included a mock quote that criticized his performance and made fun of his age.
After the Miami game, I made a post joking that he tried to throw Mangini under the bus, but missed the bus and accidentally threw him under another bus going the other way.
After the Denver game I made fun of him for ignoring the coaching staff and throwing ill-advised interceptions in my South Park parody.
After the Bills game I made another joke about an ill-advised interception in my Star Wars parody and also made fun of the fact that he looked like he was upset when Ellis scored his TD.
After the Tennessee game I made fun of his excessive butt slapping.
After the 49ers game, I made fun of how slow he is.
After he was awful against the Raiders, I remarked that he must be hurt (and was right).”
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Bent says:
Kyle said:
“Listen, SackDance99 exists in a delusional fantasy world.
None of what he says has any true research or thought behind it. He is simply trying to find ways to defend a has-been QB.”
I was surprised at this too. You may not agree with his viewpoint, but he is easily one of the smartest guys we get posting on here and has produced plenty of stats, anecdotes, examples, etc to back up his position over the years. He will also admit when he’s wrong and doesn’t resort to namecalling, so I sometimes wish there were more like him. (Check’s in the post, hopefully!)
Jets-fan-4-life: I like the outside the box thinking, but I think Favre has no interest in coaching once his career is over (still not convinced). I also think he would be a really bad coach because he would expect guys to take the same chances he would and very few QBs can make a lot of the throws he used to make. One very high profile one who couldn’t this year was himself!
Jerry said:
“If we threw the short pass on 3rd & one more often, we could run up the middle at will.”
I think you’re the only person who wanted the Jets to throw more often on third and short.
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Bent- are you saying some of us resort to name calling? Never
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Bent, thanks for the shout out. I wasn’t comparing KC to Favre as much as I was just posting a snarky response to JAGG’s post and hank/naples post. This thread was about KC’s prospects as the QB and, sorry guys, but KC’s 2007 stats sucked. If anything is “delusional” it’s the belief that giving KC a better OL will magically mean that he’ll become more accurate or throw fewer INTs.
Plus, Freeman24, I’ve already posted that I think the “compare the first ___ starts of _____ to KC and they sucked too” argument is completely invalid because it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison. Every QB you cited started as a rookie!!! That’s one NFL training camp after college and no full season of running the scout team. KC was a second-year pro, but first time starter. I don’t have the database, but the only QB that I found that had comparable numbers to KC in that context was J.P. Losman…and he was marginally better while going 1-7 on a terrible Buffalo team. Look at guys like Tom Brady or Brett Favre, who made the Pro Bowl after first-time starting as a 2nd year pro. Everyone can make excuses for KC, I just think that’s bollocks (Bent, I think I used the term correctly).
Lastly, I think that I’ve consistently stated that, while I like Favre, I didn’t want him back at $13M and thought he would retire, so talking about him anymore is re-hashing the past. I just don’t want KC as part of the future.
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You considered that Snarky? I was just joking and I’m well aware of KC’s TD count. I’m hear almost everyday aren’t I?
I never really liked Favre and hated getting him as a Jet. Cutting Pennington for him has convinced me to never get attached to a QB. I’m not sure if any of the guys on our roster can start, but gun to my head I choose KC today. He has actually faced starters and real blitz packages. FB players aren’t made in the preseason. Preseason is just a glorified practice.
Don’t take my one liners too seriously. It’s just a game.
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Bent:
Making light (parody) of a certain negative then pronouncing what you consider his great character, bravery and other attributes, I don’t think that is BALANCED for him being the major factor for our collapse.
Maybe you missed the Quote marks but Farve is beign quoted that the INJURY happened BEFORE the season and it progressively got worse.
Maybe E. Boland touched on it that it could be an old injury (and I’m saying this not Boland) by the fact that he has thrown 13 TD’s and 31 INT’s in the last 4 decembers. The only thing I read was blame/fire the coaches when he pssed for only one TD during the last 13 (thirdteen) weeks. Nothing, nothing from you or anyone else about benching Farve.
I think the above fact goes to the heart of his charachter by his statement that he unretired (not for personal records or ego) to change our (losers) philosophy and win for the Jets
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Bent:
Correction: One pasing TD in the last 13 weeks IN the 4th qtr. -
Sack, I get ti that you don’t like KC, but you wrote:
“If anything is “delusional” it’s the belief that giving KC a better OL will magically mean that he’ll become more accurate or throw fewer INTs.”
Wouldn’t you admit that even a bad QB benefits from having a better Oline?
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Hank, if Favre was injured before he signed with the Jets then the blame goes to Tannenbaum/ Woody, no?
Didn’t they give him a physical? Of course, and he passed, so what’s your point?
After Favre passes the physical, he should turn down $13M because his shoulder is sore? He’s played professional football for 19 years, every part of his bidy is sore.
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I think anyone would be better with a good o line. How did Peyton do when his line was beaten up? How good was Brady from his back?
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Bent says:
Hank – fair enough, it doesn’t fit your description of balanced but I prefer not to be negative in my writing, as you will have seen over the years, but at least you can acknowledge that I have indeed been critical of Favre and your “show me one of your posts where you have been negative” comment was over the top.
When you’ve finished putting words in my mouth, I actually think Favre has a deeply flawed character, and the “bravery” you think I admire him for is not that big of a deal for me – he was on painkillers for a long time and was probably numb to any pain. I just didn’t view these traits quite as negatively as you did.
Not everything has two extremes – if I disagree with something you wrote, that doesn’t mean I think the exact opposite on every single matter and this is the conclusion you appear to have drawn with respect to my opinion.
Favre was terrible over the last five games, missing nearly every pass (I felt nearly all of the drops that some Favre apologists – of which I am not one – used as an excuse for his poor play, were Brett’s fault for throwing behind guys) and – injury or no injury – was one of the main reasons the Jets failed to make the playoffs. He also was far from perfect even when they played well. This is not the first time I have said any of these things.
So, you can keep trying to argue with me about Favre and portray me as some clueless, biased, bandwagon jumping celeb lover (a notion which offends me), if you want but that’s not who I am, so it’s a waste of everybody’s time.
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Pete57 and JAGG, if you can’t play the QB position well, then a better O-line won’t automatically translate into better stats. Look, if KC had the skill set of Big Ben, then I’d agree with you. Big Ben’s completion pct. and other measurables have declined because his OL is terrible. But, KC is not Big Ben. Here’s my problem, I watched KC very closely and he could not diagnose defenses well, which caused him to hold on to the ball too long, which caused protection to break down, which caused incompletions, runs, sacks or INTs. Honestly, I wish you guys were right, I just think KC stinks. Luckily, I think Ratliff is good and could be like Matt Schaub…a guy who showed pre-season promise and excelled when finally given the chance to start.
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However, as I stated before, I think the Jets have to seriously consider a first-round QB and Ryan’s idea of being run-oriented would help a rookie as much as Ratliff or the other guys.
Bent doesn’t need my support, but I never thought Bent was “pro-Favre.” In fact, I always thought that the TJB crew were decidedly anti-Favre and Bent was just more reserved. Now, I think that the TJB crew is “pro-KC.” So, if guys on both sides of the issue claim the TJB crew are biased, they’re probably playing it down the middle.
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Sack, isn’t reading defenses a skill that can be improved with experience?
Clemens had the 3rd highest wonderlick score in his class. Don’t you think he has the intelligence to get better at reading defenses?It’s not like a weak arm, that has no chance of improving.
And please, just admit that a good Oline makes a huge difference for ANY QB. That doesn’t mean you have to admit Clemens is good.
Do I make a good point, or should you just admit you don’t like Clemens and you refuse to have an intelligent debate on the topic? -
Sack, I;’m not predicting that Clemens will be good. I think none of us knows player evaluation well enough to make that judgement. We’ve all seen people who are supposed to be experts make mistakes. Would you be happy if the Jets plan was to start Clemens, and after 8 games if he wasn’t getting the job done, go to Ratliff? I would. I think we need to find out about these 2 guys this year. Next year the draft should have some excellent QB prospects.
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NickyLibs says:
Bent & Sackdance99
Don’t even stress Hank and anyone else who likes calling guys out about there personal opinons. Both of you contribute excellent posts on a day to day basis,and no matter what your view is,everyone (if they agree or not) should respect that.
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Schaub took over a season as a starter to not suck and he is still an egg. Look at his stats and without Andre Johnson I’m not convinced he would be anything. Kevin Walter is a Cotchery type player as well. Do you just take guesses sometimes?
KC made plays with his feet and he did hold onto the ball too long sometimes and other times the line would blow a block and he’d be on his back. The QB of the 06 team had a lot of pressure on their shoulders. They had to make big plays. The 06 team was a joke and after several million dollars was spent we only went 9-7 with a declining, short HOF QB. I think this line could make Ainge look serviceable and he just doesn’t have a meadowlands arm.
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The fact is he can play QB. He wasn’t drafted as a LB and converted.
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Pete57, c’mon, don’t insult me. If a QB just doesn’t have any ability, how much difference would a better OL make? For years, Chicago had a good OL, that didn’t prevent Rex Grossman from doing what he does…be inaccurate, throw ill-considered passes and lots of INTs. And, he went to the Super Bowl (as did Kordell Stewart…the poster boy for how a good OL can paper over a QB’s deficiencies)! So, that’s what you want? An incompetent QB squandering the opportunity to win a Super Bowl? And, I’m willing to bet Rex’s Wonderlic was pretty high and Ryan Fitzpatrick had a perfect Wonderlic to go along with plenty of live experience. You have to understand, that Ryan Fitzpatrick and Rex Grossman are KC’s peer group…undersized QBs with accuracy problems. The Jets could get Harvard boy for a bag of chips and, IMO, he’d be better than KC. And, if reading defenses would just automatically improve with time, guys like Browning Nagle, who had a ton of raw physical talent, would become competent NFL QBs.
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Guys, I just don’t think KC can play the position well enough to be the Jets’ franchise QB. Plenty of guys here say that Dwight Lowery can’t play CB well enough to be the Jets’ starting CB opposite Revis. Both positions are skill positions that depend upon a combination of raw physical skills (KC lacks height; Lowery elite speed), defensive or offensive recognition skills and a certain amount of innate ability…the ability to make the right decisions in miliseconds. I think Lowery has the ability to overcome his lack of elite speed and can be a good CB, I just don’t think KC can overcome his limitations.
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Sack I’m not even talking about franchise QB. I don’t think there is one on the roster. Kiper gushes about Ratliff, but he gushed about Leaf too. Maybe either one can be a competant starter, but I’d be very suprised if either of them could ever develop to a franchise QB. Sooner or later we are drafting one. I like Freeman this year or Mccoy next year. I think Mccoy’s arm isn’t the best, but either was Chads and he was successful. Also Mccoy hasn’t had two rotators cuff injuries and will have been a 4 year starter, over 6’4, plays well in big games and does it without a really elite WR.
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I apologize espn has him at 6’3. I have seen as high as 6’5 and 6’3 is the new lowest that I have seen listed.
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Don’t recall the exact details, but last year seanmac posted some interesting Football Outsiders data about how much better a QB does when anointed the starter early in camp and is given the benefit of first team reps. The data also showed how infrequently the off-the-bench replacement performs at a high level.
Perhaps that could, to some degree, excuse Clemens’ performance in relief of Chad in ’07, but if the Jets feel they have a better option with Ratliff, a FA vet, or a draftee, I’d just like to see them commit early and enthusiastically.
I’m not as big a Leftwich fan as SD99 and, though Freeman looks like a physical marvel, I’m not as sure how ready he is to be an immediate NFL starter. However, Sack’s enthusiastic Matt Ryan campaigning looks pretty prescient now.
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Whao whoa whoa jagg, so you throw out any possibilty of ratliff ever being a franchise quarterback but you view freeman as one?? Lmao….why becuase he’s big?..and can throw on the run?..he’s like a poor man’s jamarcus russel(who is nothing special himself)….with a 10th graders accuracy, he needs tons of polishing on his game to even be a starter in this league…and you see HIM as a franchise quarterback?…its one thing to throw our own guys under the bus for some other hopefulls out there, but I’m seeing some really baist statements right now.
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Hank how does it feel to be “that guy” and OWNED by BENT?
Sack, I agree with you about KC, this guy just isnt starting NFL material. How do you feel about bringing in Derek Andersen? You seem to have an affinity for big strong armed QB’s as I do. I ‘ve heard you talk about Leftwich, but if the price is right for DA, what do you think about a one-time Pro Bowler who can sling the pill all over the lot
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Don’t get caught up in this size factor too much in trying to predict a qb’s success in this league, freeman could be no better than jared lorenzen for all you know.
A lot of the big mobile quarterbacks thrived off of pass first spread out west coast offenses like mcnabb does or like culppeper did in minni. That is obviously not the game plan this coming season. And furthermore freeman is not in the same class as those gentlemen.
I’ve seen some of you with the big ben comparisons, but big ben is a man who doesn’t do much but does it when necessary and has amazing pocket presence and field recodnition…two things freeman surely doesn’t have.
That’s my opinion from what I’ve seen and read, but who knows? With the way player development has been and and how the transition has been difficult and and easy for different guys, the nfl draft is really a crap shoot sometimes.
But with that said, I’m not deaming ratliff the next brady and great things are not garaunteed but with the chances he has been given, he has given us NO reason to doubt his ability. And bringing in freeman ALSO garauntees as nothing… but perhaps a wasted pick at 17, compared to getting a position player who can make an IMMIDIATE impact for us next year.
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Ratliff but over half of his preseason yards and TDs against the Browns 3rd stringers. The Browns defense was abysmal and that was their starters. Most of his yards were on two deep balls to Clowney. He saw nothing but vanilla defensive schemes from below 500 teams.
I like Freeman because he has run a prostyle offense, his arm will slice through the wind and his is mobile. Has Ratliff shown you any escapeability? For all we know Ratliff is a statue. Do you know what happens to statues when the protection breaks down? Look at Derek Anderson’s year in 08. Laugh at me, but I think anyone considering starting a guy who barely even played second stringers in the preseason has mental problems.
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Ratliff a statue?….when he was with the utes, his main attributes was his scrambling ability! He’s the fastest qb on our team!….who do want vick? He can throw 70 yards on the run and is probably the fastest qb in nfl history, lol. But as I said again..that’s the type of spread out offense atlanta ran to vicks liking and that’s not what’s gonna work for this team…..according to the coach.
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Sack, I think you just made my point. Grossman and Stewart made it to the SupeBowl behind good Olines. Of course I don’t want those guys. But you glossed over my point that none of us are professional talent evaluators, and that I also said I’m not definitely predicting Clemens will be good.
There is alot of evidence to go on for those 2 QB’s, but much less for Clemens, no?
Can you admit that you are not a professional NFL talent evaluator and may be wrong about Clemens?
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If you can’t find a way to utilize a talent like Vicks (Not Vick himself), fire your O coordinator. Using this person out of a full house package (2RB and a FB), the wildcat, or the option (like we used Smith in 07) could be a nightmare to scheme against and would allow the team to still be a run first team. The play action would work amazingly if they had to watch hours and hours of film just on your running game. With talented targets like Clowney and Keller. I could guarantee a playoff spot.
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JAGG,
i definately digg your philosophy and i like it. But as far as ratliff goes, can people really let go of the whole “3rd string opponents” arguements. Its getting real innacurate and old….and bad enough, thats the ONLY thing people can hold against him when “trying” to bash him.
In fact he played against 3rd stringers, 2nd stringers, and spot starters. And if thats case made, i think its safe to say that whomever your playing “against” is also who your playing “with”(on your team). If you really wanna size up a players abilities based on his opponents, you can make that case against freeman or any other qb coming out of college for that matter, he faced a bunch of school kids and walk ons who probably dont have the physical make up to persue a career…or whom even wanted to in the first place,lol.
To get one thing straight, its not as if ratliff had a “good” pre season…he had the best preseason you could possibly have. Wether it be pre season, practice, or whatever with ratliff and clemens on the SAME stage, ratliff outperformed clemens considerably and this coming from coaching staff and teammates. People just wanna measure Ratliff’s abilities on the lone browns game but no one saw the redskins game?…..how ratliff came in and engineered an impressive comeback and missled a perfect pass into raymond’s chest for a should-be game winning TD, but raymond dropped it?
All in all, i respect your admiration for freeman and your philosophy on how he could help an offense and your entitled to your support of him as i am entitled to my support of ratliff. Neither one of us know how these guys NFL’s careers will turn out. I just feel that with the qb’s on the team right now, freeman would be waay to much of a reach at 17, compared to us getting a position player who can come in and start while making a big impact for this team going forth. You cant tell me, given freeman’s mechanics and field/play recognition abilities he can come in and start for any team at this point and be effective. With that being the case it would be kind of a waste….now we would just have ANOTHER inexperienced young qb to come compete for a starting job while there are still other glaring holes on this team that need to be sured up.
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Ratliff did have a very good preseason. IMO our O lines had a very good preseason and we had some decent depth at WR. There is nothing like experience to me and I’m not convinced he can be anything more than a decent back up.
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Freeman could start for my offense, but alas I’m just a blogger. He has alot of tools that can be schemed with. I like that. On a similar note if the Dolphins keep Dan henning and can get Tebow in next years draft I’m scared. I’m not looking for him to replace the Chads, but to run Ronnie Browns part of the Wildcat.
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i hear you, but and thats depending on “what” (position) Tebow gets drafted as, lol…….but i think that wild cat offense may dissapate quick…….teams can catch on ecpsecially when you bring certain packages and personnel on the field, theres nuthin like some good ol’ game footage, lol.
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Pete 57, I wish I were an NFL talent evaluator!!! Hey, maybe KC will be great, I’m just a frustrated Jets fan that wants another Super Bowl win. Unlike you, I believe the reason why the Jets haven’t won a Super Bowl over the last 40 years is because of the lack of talent at the QB position. I know the Pro Bowl is a beauty contest, but since Namath in 1972, here’s our Pro Bowl QBs: O’Brien-’85 and ’91; Esiason-’93; Testaverde ’98 and Favre-’08. The only All-Pro the Jets have had at QB has been Namath. 5 Pro Bowl QB and no All-Pros for 40 freaking years!!! You have to agree that KC is unlikely to break the string. Namath and O’Brien are the Jets’ only home grown Pro Bowl QBs in 40 years!!! Just let that sink in and then you’ll know why I am 100% underwhelmed by KC, who is too short, too inaccurate and too skittish in the pocket to ever be above a “replacement level” QB. 40 years and counting without an All Pro QB….
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JAGG, you know that I’m on the Freeman bandwagon. He’s such a freak that I really don’t think he’ll be considered a reach at 17. If Rex wants a guy that can stand up to the Meadowlands winds, how about a 6-6, 250 lber with a cannon arm. ridinmywave is right, he’s as unproven as KC and Ratliff, but he has better physical tools. I also don’t think that the Jets have that many other holes that they “need” to fill in the draft. If the Jets sign Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard, they won’t have “needs” as much as positions that could be upgraded or depth-added. The Jets do have the 2nd – 7th rounds to do that, why not take a flyer on Freeman, who has already been zooming up draft boards? It’s not like at 17 he’d command sick money that could be used elsewhere.
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Sack, I’m right there with you. I want a great QB. I don’t see Clemens being great either. I always felt if we had drafted Marino we would’ve gone to the SB at least twice, maybe more. Marino throwing to Walker, Toon, and Schuler, with Freeman in the backfield. Don’t think Dan ever had that good of a supporting cast. Anyway, I just saw a mock draft where Sanchez falls to us. What do you think of him?
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Bent;
I trully appreciate and respect your candid response in addressing my points. To be perfectecly honest with you, they felt like a breath of fresh air. My intent was never to harrass you or put words in your mouth in any way but to simply hear you post a direct honest opinion of this guy. To that I’m gratefull.
So to this I say, out with the old, in with the new….Brett that is.
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Look at any good team that has experienced any kind of consistent success, its because they have a franchise QB. It is a QB driven league. Take Detroit for example, they have been a down trodden franchise for ever, if they want to build a winning program they better start with a QB. Indianappolis was nothing until they drafted Peyton Manning. New England was nothing until Brady came on the scene. Cincinnatti has only experienced recent success when Carson Palmer has played.
I don’t know if KC is the answer or not, I just know he hasn’t been given enough of a chance to make a final determination yet. His success in college would suggest he can be a starting QB, only time will tell.
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IMO Freman’s physical tools are so impressive I would take him with the 17th overall paick because of the huge upside he can bring to a team. If this guy (Josh Freeman) turns out to be the real deal, teams will be cursing thier decision not to grab this guy.
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ramble914:
I agree with you about the QB . That’s why they make the big buck$.
I’m a defense first kind of guy and that’s why i’m so optimistic. I’m 100 % gung-ho on Rex.
I wont endorse a QB (But am sure I will be compelled to argue at somepoint), but I think any QB can be serviceable if we can run the way we ran last year and our line can do what it did last year. I would like to note that if Schotty’s playbook still involves the QB getting smacked around they will die and we will need all 3 of our current guys. Favre took a lot of big hits, because we had just our line vs blitz. It gave us some first downs on quick throws but at what cost? Maybe a 39yr old QB that broke down by seasons end? Favre knew how to take a hit do any of our current guys?