Dominoes Falling in Baltimore
So what’s the word out of Baltimore? Word is that the “first domino has fallen” and you might not like what you hear.
Check out our pals at RightOffRussell.com for more … and what it means to the Jets chances of getting Bart Scott and/or Ray Lewis.
UPDATE:
The Ravens and linebacker Bart Scott appear to be only $400,000 to $700,000 apart as far as completing a new deal.
Scott, though, isn’t sure if he is competing with Ravens Pro Bowl linebacker Ray Lewis for a big contract.
Lewis, like Scott, will become a free agent tomorrow if he doesn’t reach an agreement. The Ravens may be able to sign only one of the two, and might be pitting one against the other.
Hat tip to Mole57 – source: Baltimore Sun
75 Responses to Dominoes Falling in Baltimore
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ramble914 says:
Boy, the news is fast and furious!
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Bent says: So, Jason Brown is not going to re-sign (potential Moore replacement, but I think he’ll be expensive), which means they can start negotiations with both linebackers and will almost certainly retain at least one.
I hope it’s Lewis. We’ll see.
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steviek says:
if i’m scott, it would be really tought to get within hours of fa and not check out what’s out there.
have to figure he’s getting enough hints about possible contracts. -
If I’m Scott, I don’t sign with the Ravens, I wait and see what FA brings. There is no way Baltimore can match what FA will bring him. He’s a hot commodity.
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CA Jets Fan says:
We should have signed Gibril Wilson. Dolphins go tthe hard hitting safety, and he can flat out Play!
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Do you think Derrick Dockery could now come cheaper to replace Moore, or is he Moore type money and not worth it?
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kc. says:
we GOTTA get Scott…GOTTA!
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I really like Scott, but if we don’t get him, then Maleuga, or Cushing would be nice and Cheaper…
Consider this for conversation here today!
17: Maleuga
Sign Leohnard in FA
Trade up in the 2nd round for Freeman
Sign Ron Bartell to play opposite of Revis
KEEP Brandon Moore
Trade Ellis for a 4th rounder
Grab the Running back from N. Carolina that is burning Wells and Moreno at the combine.Much cheaper approach and this way when this Economy really hits teams and the smaller markets have to release money next offseason we aren’t tied up and can sign some nice names for a cheaper price, or trade low level picks at a deal for good players.
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LamJones says:
I believe the RB is from UCONN, not NC. All signs point to Rey from USC being far gone by #17.
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Drew says:
cushing could be a possibility, as well as clay matthews
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swizzle81 says:
Cushing is OLB, I do not think he is fast enough for 3-4 defense. Hopefully the Ravens or Dallas throw ridiculous money at Ray Ray, and the Jets are able to sign Scott and Leonhard. They should also consider Canty and signing a CB from FA, then draft all other needs. I would also be skepitcal of Maleuga, with his recent injury and perfomance at the combine.
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mole57 says:
UPDATE: (from the Baltimore Sun)
The Ravens and linebacker Bart Scott appear to be only $400,000 to $700,000 apart as far as completing a new deal.Scott, though, isn’t sure if he is competing with Ravens Pro Bowl linebacker Ray Lewis for a big contract.
Lewis, like Scott, will become a free agent tomorrow if he doesn’t reach an agreement. The Ravens may be able to sign only one of the two, and might be pitting one against the other.
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Liam says:
Bent, I imagine Brown is going to be way out of our price range going, looking for something in 5 yrs, 35 mil range (especially since he can go somewhere and play center instead of right guard).
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noce job mole. i hope everyone can keep this in perspective. it would be great to get scott, but if we don’t its not the end of the world. we’re not talking about a first ballot hall of famer here. the biggest concern i would have about this is if it leads to us signing ray lewis. that would be a bad football decision.
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Bart Scott would be awesome next to David Harris in the middle!
What kind of money do you think he’ll be looking for?
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Bent says:
Scott should get at least 5 years. My guess is that his agent will try to get about 8m a year, although with any luck it will only take about 6m. I’ll be amazed if he gets more than Lewis’ rumored 25m in guaranteed money.
I was hoping that they could get him for less than Calvin Pace money, but since there is inevitably going to be a bidding war, I reckon it could push the price to pretty much the same level. (6 years 42m 21 guaranteed)
I hope they can get him for a bit less than that though. (5 years, 32m, 17m guaranteed?)
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I dont want Ray Lewis but if the Ravens resign Scott over him he will be one motivated dude….
Lewis becoming a Jet???? Worse things could happen
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JetObsessed2 says:
If Bart Scott was smart, he’d just wait an extra day and let the offers come pouring in.. It might be more economical to re-sign Barton… He’s getting older, but he’s not that bad.. and cheaper than Scott/Lewis.
On the guard front, the Bills released one of theirs.. i can’t remember his name at the moment.. and they released a TE.. i think Royal..
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If We sign Ray-Ray, and Bart stays in Balt.
Do we make a big-time offer for Suggs too? Maybe trade 17 and make a big splash for Suggs (franchised)?
Then we get rid of Ellis, Thomas, and Barton (all 3 take pretty big money).
Thoughts>
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Barton is not the answer JETOBSESSED2
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believe me, i want the upgrade.. was just throwing out a hypothetical, since our boys have a lot of needs to fill..
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Greg Buttle says it perfectly:
Let KC start this year. Last time he started he had no line. Give him a chance.
Also if we dont get Scott, do we have a better LB then Ray-Ray? Sign him!
TJ Housh at WR. He is an upgrade to Coles. Maybe sign TJ and Nate Washington?
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JesusRevis says:
TJ is a slightly better version of Cotchery, only he will be making 5 times more money, it is not worth it. Although Housh racks up catches, if you notice his YPC is usually under 10, he is a glorified possession receiver who also had the benefit of playing opposite Chad Johnson, who despite his antics, still commanded double teams, more so than Housh.
As far as the Ravens LB’s, maybe Baltimore has wised up and realized it would be the smarter move to stick with the younger and cheaper option which is Scott, I hope this doesnt leave the Jets with Ray Lewis, lets hope if it comes to that Dallas will outbid us.
Getting Suggs? Impossible, the Jets cant justify trading 2 first round picks for an OLB when they already have 3 big contracts at that position (Pace, gholston, Thomas). Now I know they could cut Thomas, but still thats a lot of money for OLB’s.
Brian Cushing?
http://www.thedirty.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/cstrh23e8ggb.jpgThats what taking steroids does to your body, we do not want Cushing
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Jesus,
I normally really agree with a lot that you say.
But
? for you because I always thought trading for a franchise would cost 2 first rounders, but we only got 1 for Abraham from Atlanta. We only got 1 from Wash for LC. Can’t we trade 17, pick up Suggs and sign him large?
We are set at OLB for a long time. Put Ray and DH in the middle.
Release Thomas, Ellis, and Barton.
Let Gholston play DOWN DE like he was in College. He was a monster from the down position. Playing in coverage is not his experteze.
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Cushing does not really fit our mold of LB. he will thrive in a 4-3.
Plus I see a bunch of dudes like Cushing at the Jersey Shore in the summer…Classic meathead…Roids or not the guy’s is an injury waiting to happen
Again I dont love Lewis but he will be so motivated if he leaves Baltimore….
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RIGHT ON with Cushing
I see injuries for life with this guy! He is a beast and a very good player. Didn’t see the difference that link gave us.
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I dont think we need to sign another OLB….We could get to the QB but mangini and sutton decided to call off the dogs after week 9. Pace, Gholsten, Harris and even lazy ass BT can get to the QB in Ryan’s system.
I like Suggs but it just wont happen
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jetchick says:
Yep…Lets show everyone out there just how sharp we are.Lets cut young guys to make room for old guys….again. Ray Lewis is on the decline and his best days are behind him.
Hey…I like Lewis but he is older than Coles and certainly his best years are behind him.
Its funny all the guys getting cut are on offense…you know the guys that actually put points on the board.How come guys on D like BT of half of the defensive backs aren’t on the chopping block?
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Yeah I can’t stand BT.
What a typical Herm Edwards thing….LAZY, first round pick, and was resigned to an extension.
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CA,
Abraham was not signed by Atl as a Franchised player; he was traded t them for a first rounder (which eventually became Mangold). Coles was a RFA when Wash. signed him (I don’t think he had a transition tag, but I could be wrong on that — either way, it was not a franchise tag.)There is no way Baltimore will trade Suggs for the 17th pick in the draft.
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CA Jets Fan, Abraham wasnt franchised. The price tag on a franchised player is 2 first rd picks.
You cant really expect Gholston to play DE in a 3-4 when he was a 4-3 end in college, different position.
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Mole,
Okay fair enough. I was not 100% sure on those details. So it is 2 FIRST ROUNDERS for a franchse tag? Then why are the ESPN pundants saying that it could be a 2nd rounder for Matt Cassell?
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Rex doesnt have a typical 3-4 though.
He could strive there.
If that is the case JESUS then Eric should have never drafted him and traded down last year.
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Technically a team can package any sort of deal they want if they try and trade a franchised player. But if an opposing team wants to SIGN a franchised player, the compensation is 2 first round picks
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But they drafted him to play 3-4 OLB, which is where every expert said Gholston would be a great fit
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Eh whatever.
Balt wont take 1 first rounder for him.
Did you all see the Giants are going to make a run for Haynesworth?
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The franchise tag means that the player is still a free agent and may be signed by another team, but that team must give up two first-rounders to do so. However, in the case of Cassel, the Pats could trade him for a second rounder. The reason they franchised him is because they know they can get trade value. No one in their right mind will spend two first-rounders for the right to sign him; so they are forced to work out a trade instead.
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Jesus
That is wehre we disagree
Todd McShay hated Gholsten coming out.
He had yelling matches with Kiper JR about Gholston.
Kiper is a moron and loves all of these workout buffs including him and Vernon Davis.
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Mole,
Gotcha Thanks!
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CA, what are we disagreeing about?
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no thanks for me? i answered you first! LOL
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That all of the analysts loved Gholston at OLB
McShay (who I really respect)
Hated him
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9 hours and counting. Lets pull an old republican party trick and start jamming Raven phone lines with hundreds of phone calls,, who’s with me???
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I am with you LIAM!
GO GET EM MR. T
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CA, just because McShay didnt like him doesnt mean that he counts for “all” the analysts. Theres really nothing to disagree on, becaus it is a fact that Gholson was projected as a 3-4 OLB by the MAJORITY of scouts. Most scouts loved him as a 3-4 OLB, just because McShay didnt doesnt make it not true.
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Jesus,
Well the fact that he is lost in coverage shows some truth to it.
I really hope that I am wrong and he matures with Rex though.
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Im with you, its been very disapointing watching Gholston. But I still have plenty of hope for him.
Im just making the point that regardless of what has happened since the draft, there is no denying that before the draft scouts were loving this guy, especially in a 3-4 Def as an OLB.
For instance, Scouts were calling Dewayne Robertson the next Warren Sapp, scouts were all over D-Rob, raving about him. And look how he turned out? Im not saying I agreed with the scouts, im just telling you what the consensus was before the draft.
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jp losman says:
when coles left for washington, he was a RFA. bradway only tendered him with a 1st rounder. i remember he took alot of heat for that, becasue for like another million or so, the skins would have had to give up a 1st and a 3rd, which most believed at the time would have never happened.
bradway then overreacted and signed curtis conway.
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Bradway was awful!
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IMO, bradway drafted well, but his FA signing were terrible. most of the time the signing were overreaction to losing a key guy.
i love his role now. think of all the key 4th rd players we have now becasue of him.
i guess there could be a knock on him for evaluating 1 st rd talent.
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SackDance99 says:
jetchick, Bowens and Barrett were cut and the Jets let Barton’s contract expire. So, the defense has sustained cuts, too.
I agree that Lewis is nearing the end of his career and likely would not be worth the on-field performance that he would give for the big $$$ he’d get. The Jets, however, need an attitude adjustment on defense and Ryan needs his “on-field” coaches to do it. Lewis would provide veteran leadership, which is both necessary and difficult to quantify. I would rather have Scott and I think the biggest problem with Lewis would be an older player’s susceptibility to injuries. A healthy Lewis would still play at a very high level. I’d say that he likely has 2 -3 quality years left, barring injury. And, he is coming off of an All-Pro season…those aren’t handed out like Pro Bowl awards….they’re awarded on merit. I know the Jets were burned with Favre, but Lewis is younger and his play hasn’t tailed off, yet. In fact, his last 3 years have been very consistent. Again, he’s not my first choice, but he’s also not Favre or Kimo either.
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Sack, well said. However I find it funny that you are mentioning Kimo Von Oelhoffen with the likes of hall of famers Brett Favre and Ray Lewis
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Debonos says:
Kimo Von Oelhoffen was the most overhyped player in jets history when it comes to the propaganda and verbal vomit that spews from the mouth of the man who refers to himself as “Jesus Revis”
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J-Revis, I mentioned Kimo because he was supposed to be Mangini’s “on-field” coach and leader to help the Jets learn the 3-4…it didn’t quite work out that way. And, Tanny overpaid for Kimo’s “leadership.” I’m okay with paying extra for leadership skills, but not for inferior talent, like Kimo.
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The giant fans cant get enough of the Jetsblog, there must be no good giants blogs out there
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Sack, I know, I just thought it was funny. The truth is Kimo was a decent player, but h came to the Jets at a bad time, he would hav been much more successful next to Kris Jenkins instead of D-Rob.
I’ve come to the conclusion that nothing Mangini did was much of a success and i’m embarassed for buying into his hole philosophy. I can see hes already pissing off a lot of people in Cleveland.
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I did not agree with the Bowens cut at all. He was a locker room leader and filled in very well for us. I also am not happy with the Brandon Moore cut or the Chris Baker Cut…and you all know how I feel about LC.
To be honest IMO I think we get dumber every year and the proof is in the results we get on the field. This year we are out doing ourselves and will tumble off the dumb ass chart.
Just who are we clearing cap space for. Old guys, and unproven guys and and guys no better then the guys we cut? Sorry, I just don’t get it.
Cut the defensive secondary they all suck with the exception of Revis. Cut BT he is over rated. Even Rhodes stunk up the joint last season. Go get a CB to balance out Revis, find an OLB that can drop back in coverage and actually defend a pass. Get a DE that puts fear in the QB’s heart. Go find a receiver that scares defensive coordinators, and a QB that can accurately throw the ball down the field….I mean to one of our guys not one of theirs.
The problem here is the owner and the GM…throw in the OC for good measure. But we are loyal fans and see light where there is darkness…hope when there is little of it left.
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Jetchick, you sound like you want the Jets to have an all-pro at every position, while that would be nice, it is not possible. From what you say it seems you dont want the Jets to cut anyone. Baker and Coles were problems, and they were making a considerable amount of money, any NFL team would have cut both.
As far as Moore, most people dont like the move, but lets see what happens by tonight.
Bowens is old and was making too much money, he really is nothing more than a special teams player and the Jets need to fill his defensive snaps with Gholston.
Every team would like to have a great QB who can make accurate down the field throws, a dominate d-end that puts fear in the QB, and a WR that scares defensive coordinators, but you cant have all of that along with what we already have:
A dominant NT, an elite CB, talented LB’s, an elite FS, etc etc.
Lets see who they sign before you start criticizing who they are clearing the cap space for.
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Jesus Revis
Most teams that win Superbowls have elite qbs, elite wr cores, and elite pass rushers(not necessarily de’s)
The jets have none of these three. Maybe they have their “elite” talent in all the wrong positions.
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Jesus Revis
Nice to hear from you, I thought you were having a private exchange with CA Jet Fan.They just announced that Stuckey is Coles replacement. Sure he is…bad move. Stuckey is a third receiver not a first.
Lets get this straight…players ask for more money just like the rest of us that work for a living. The enemy is the rich, stupid, disconnected owners that rake fans over, make bad decisions and laugh all the way to the bank. If we draft a receiver it will take time to develop him. I don’t see a free agent receiver better then Coles…or if so he is marginally better and doesn’t know the system as well.
Baker was a good tight end…not great but good. Why did we agree to pay him last year and then screw him over…as we did Brandon Moore. How is it that the owners have all the power and control?
Please tell me where these free agents are that are going to come in and do a better job because I can’t seem to figure out who they are.
Lets take it a step further. Whats going to happen when the old men free agent quick fix win now solution we paid millions for lose their edge…then what?
Lets remember you are looking at an organization that has had 2 bad owners, one great QB and 2 good head coaches in a forty year span.
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jetchick, I would love to know what moves you would have made if you were the Jets GM?
You seems to be very loyal and compassionate. Would you just never cut anyone?
Stuckey hasnt shown whether or not he can be a #2 WR or not, but it is certainly not fair to say he cant be.
Chris Baker is easily replaceable, come on jetchick, were you watching the games last year? He was nowhere to be found.
Mad Maries Meatballs,
The Elite QB is an obvious must, as far as the pass rushers, I believe the Jets have the guys that can develop into that. Speaking of superbowl winning teams, Lemarr Woodley and James Harrison came out of nowhere to become lethal pass rushers, whose to say Pace and Gholston cant do the same? In the right scheme? I think you all are going to change your mind when you see the Jets actually blitz for once. The fact that we had as many sacks as we did last year with a passive defense that hardly blitzed is extremely impressive. Lets see what our pass rushers do when Rex Ryan lets them loose, then we can talk about elite pass rushers. And as far as the notion that superbowl teams have elite wide receivers? Im sorry but that is simply false. If I remember correctly the team with the elite WR’s (Arizona) lost, and Pittsburgh has nice players at WR, but not even close to elite.
Recent superbowl winners
Pitt
NYG
Indy
Pitt
NE
TB
BaltWith the exception of Indy, none of these teams had elite WR’s, most of them had average or less. Those New Enlgand teams had David Givens and Troy Brown. The Giants had Plax who was great, but other than him? not much. And most of these teams won because of defense.
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these cuts have nothing to do directly with the owners profits.
they have to do with relieving the salary cap.
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i m sorry, i meant to say managing the salary.
jet chick – its a business, there is no loyalitry, as i think you are wishing for. Mr T is looking to get the best bang for his buck. its much like grocery shopping or car shoppin gfor you and I. you get the most out of what you have to spend
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JesusRevis
I said elite wr cores, not elite wr. The last four superbowl winners had an elite group of pass catchers, including elite quarterbacks.
The current jets roster is way off from having anything that closely resembles an elite group of pass catchers, not to mention an elite passer.
Of course Gholston can turn into an elite pass rusher. His rookie season has to scare jets fans but that doesnt mean his entire career is over. Michael Strahan barely touched the field as a rookie(although he wasnt the sixth overall pick)
As for pace, pace has never been an elite pass rusher in his entire career. Hes a good player who can cause havoc from time to time but he has yet to prove that he can dominant as a pass rusher. At this point in his career how much better can you expect him to get?
Did you say mustard
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Other than Indy no other team had an elite WR core, and why are you limiting the field to only the last 4 superbowl winners? New England, Baltimore, and Tampa Bay had below average receiving cores. Was Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer, and Steve Smith really elite? No way. Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Nate Washington? No. New England, Indy, Cincinatti, Dallas, Arizona have elite receiving cores. Once you get outside of the top 5 is it really fair to call yourself elite? Or even outside the top 3?
And no one is predicting a superbowl for the Jets this year, so your hole point is really out of context.
Like I said, the Jets were never blitzing last year so all of there sack numbers are impressive for their situation. Check Football Outsiders, the Jets percentage of blitzing plays was disgraceful. Calvin Pace recording 7 sacks while dropping into coverage the majority of passing downs is extremely impressive. That sack number could be doubled if he blitzed twice as much (simple math). The scheme is more important, the Giants have the players but if I recall correctly there defense wasnt anything to brag about before Spagnola arrived and applied the right scheme, right?
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I limit the superbowl winners to the last four because it is clear that the NFL has changed to a pass happy league. The top teams all throw the ball well.
As for the giants having elite pass catchers, a player like Burress makes everyone better. You say he was great, but it was Amani Toomer who was the man for the giants during their glorious postseason run that led to their third superbowl win, and it was Steve Smith who emerged as the “move the chains” wr when he finally got healthy just weeks before the playoffs began.
As for your point regarding spangolo, while the defense itself may not have been anything to write home about prior to his arrival, their pass rushers still did what they did. In 2005 both strahan and osi made the pro bowl(Both notching double digit sacks) under a defensive coordinator(Tim Lewis) who ultimately lost his job bc of the lack of aggressive play calling. Spagnolo was fortunate enough to not only have those two guys, but he had justin tuck finally play a full season, mathias kiwanuka as his fourth pass rusher, and a far better secondary than Tim Lewis had.
The point is that pass rushers are who they are. If you can get to the quarterback then the scheme will not dictate your sack totals. Every coach needs the players for their system to work and im not sure that the jets do. While pace sack total may double if he is rushing the passer twice as much, that doesn’t necessarily mean that he is getting to the quarterback at an efficient rate.
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Also, the term blitz is used when more then four players are going after the quarterback. The jets play a 3-4, so on top of their 3 down lineman, im sure someone else was going to the passer on every obvious passing down.
We would have to the amount of times pace was sent for the quarterback to fully understand how often he was in coverage or not.
Don’t just assume pace will be terell suggs because he will be playing under Rex Ryan. Scheme counts, but players count twice as much.
Chicken cutlet, lettuce tomato mayonaisse on a roll.
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There is of course a better way to conduct business, reward loyalty and hard work, respect the fans and do things which are proven by others to bring greater success.
Greed is what drives the NFL. Big TV money, big owner money, big fan money. The rest of its just a show that fans get sucked into.
The quality of the games has gone way downhill. I think I got to see a total of maybe 5 games last season that would qualify as riveting. We have a rather Nazi like commissioner that goes overboard punishing players, and the officiating now determines the outcome of games more so then the talent on the field.
Guys, please give me a break…I have an MBA and don’t need lessons that compare grocery shopping budgets to salary cap budgets. Apparently today’s free agent acquisition will be tomorrows cap casualty…asinine.
So tell me who is going to replace Baker for less? If Baker wasn’t seen producing last season it was because dumb ass Shotty was to stupid to use him. Hell, Keller was playing well and went into Mangini’s doghouse and never came back out.
Thinking Stucky can replace Coles is a long shot at best. And who the hell is going to throw them the ball anyway?
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Check the numbers or the regular season tapes, the Giants receivers werent elite, dont let what happened in the playoffs fool you. Not elite.
Like every other Giant fan you find the negative in every point. So if Pace gets 14 sacks he isnt getting to the QB at an efficient rate? When actually his numbers for QB pressures were already impressive, so more blitzing wouldnt = more sacks? more pressures? That logic makes no sense. You can only compare the Jets to the other 3-4 teams, and the fact is the teams that play the 3-4 just so happen to have the best pass rushers, Dallas-Demarcus Ware, Miami-Joey Porter, Pitt-Woodley & Harrison. While the jets dont have the guys these teams have, they still had impressive sack numbers to back my point. And since the scheme didnt help their numbers at all, Rex Ryan’s scheme will only help to improve those numbers.
Before Spagnola the defense wasnt effective, just because you have d-ends getting sacks doesnt mean they are impacting the overall play of the team. Michael Strahan “got” the sack record with a bunch of meaningless sacks that didnt help the team. Indy has had horrible defenses despite the fact that Freeney and Mathis were racking up sacks. The defense is looked at as a hole, and The Jets have the pieces, my point is they need the right scheme.
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jetchick,
In the salary cap era, rewarding loyalty is not a luxury many teams can afford if they want to stay competitive. And comparing Goodell to a Nazi is a bit extreme, don’t you think? -
Mad Marie,
that just goes to show that you truly dont watch the Jets. Yes, a blitz means more than 4 players are going after the QB, and The Jets werent blitzing more than 4, they werent even bringing more than 3 most of the time! So yes, Pace was dropping back into coverage the majority of the time.
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Jetchick,
an MBA doesnt give you any advantage when discussing football. You have to understand that players are going to get cut, youre not always going to like it, but thats how the NFL works.
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Mole 57
Meant to say the commissioner is Bush like but Nazi slipped out.
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TJBfan says:
There are things that suck like cap casualties but really salary caps are a good thing for the game, as is “punishing” or as i see it holding players accountable for their actions.
It keeps the game competitive. What other sport can see teams like the Dolphins go from dead last to playoffs? Look at our own jets who have went from 4 wins to 11 back down to 4 and back up to 9.
You can never predict what will happen because of the handling of players within the limits of salary cap. In other sports you dont have todays aquisition, tomorrows cap casualty…you have todays aquistion, added with tomorrows, and so on and so forth until you have all star teams which dominate year in year out with minor team changes in the playoff picture.
Im not too worried about it im confident Scott will be a Jet, I think we will offer more money then balt will, balt should just sign R Lewis hes the heart of their team