A Defense Without Boundaries; No Definition for Ryan’s Schemes
It seems as if people are getting too hung up on formations and dictionary definitions of positions.
By no means is it a terrible thing to do. Using history as a barometer and gauging it against mountains of statistical analysis is probably the most effective way to preview what someone should be able to do in a given situation.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t apply to Rex Ryan’s defensive schemes. On paper Ryan’s system may resemble the 3-4 best, but where’s the fun in that? A base package can’t possibly be “Organized Chaos” could it?
I’m a self-centered Jets fan with a girlfriend who fell in love with the Ravens last season. And if there’s one thing I learned while watching that Ravens’ defense is that there’s no such thing as a base 3-4.
In January, Rich Cimini wrote this regarding Rex Ryan’s defense:
His Ravens had a base 3-4 defense, but they used multiple fronts. Ryan coached the 4-3 in 2000, when they won the Super Bowl. He’s also well-versed in the “46″ defense.
“Multiple fronts,” immediately pops out in that description.
These are no longer Eric Mangini’s Jets.
Gone are the days where we can watch the Jets defense on field and easily identify who’s going to be covering who. It’s no longer a defense where stunts, motions, and shifts are a rarity; no longer a defense for QBs like Ryan Fitzpatrick or JaMarcus Russell to pick apart.
When people look at Vernon Gholston without expecting much, and say things like, “He’s too small to be a 3-4 defensive end,” it’s almost an insult to Ryan’s defense before we even see it in action.
The first time Terrell Suggs was locked down with the franchise tag, there was a dilemma regarding his one-year salary. Suggs played standing up and with his hand in the dirt. Should he have been paid like a defensive end or an outside linebacker, when he took a substantial number of snaps at both?
In the end, they found an entirely new pay grade for him.
But by definition, Suggs is undersized as a 3-4 DE. At 6′3″, 260-pounds, Suggs comes in weighing a whopping four pounds less than Gholston.
So why can’t Gholston see action where he was most comfortable in college? Why should he be restricted to an OLB role?
There’s no reason why the Jets can’t come out in a 4-4 defensive package when an offensive scenario calls for it.
Imagine the chaos with Gholston, Coleman, Jenkins, and Ellis with their hands in the dirt and a combination of Pace, Harris, Scott, and Thomas threatening to blitz or drop into coverage.
No one is saying that’s going to be the new base package. The point is to say that there’s no reason to believe Ryan won’t deviate from the way things are supposed to be drawn up when it’s most appropriate.
It’s the offseason; embrace the possibilities!
Filed under: Main Page, Opinion
I cant continue to look at pictures of Vernon Gholstons Monsterous biceps and NOT think this guy wont be a beast. To me he looks just like Lemarr Woodley only more athletic. Lets go Rex, make this guy the beast he is supposed to be.
Interesting idea angel. This team has a lot of versatility on defense! Cant wait to see this defense in action next year!
A fun anecdote supporting this idea is that Madden has had a separate defensive playbook for baltimore. Other teams just get the base 4-3 or 3-4 playbooks.
i have high hopes for VG this year. i think mangini did a terrible job in instilling confidence in him and giving him opportunities. granted, he didnt make plays during the limited opportunities he did have, and that certainly didnt help. but other rookies (keller, stuckey, etc) made plays and still fell in mangini’s doghouse.
i believe it is critical for VG to make an impact early in the season. RR needs to figure a way to get him a sack. the defense should have several plays drawn up where VG’s only role is to destroy the QB.
Gholston IS too small to play as a 3-4 DE. What you’ve described here is a situation where there would be 3 other linemen (all big enough to play as 3-4 linemen) and then Gholston/Suggs has the option of making either the 4th man on the line, or the linebacker coming off the edge.
This is, of course, exactly how he should be used, although just having a team that situationally sends situational pass rushers after the QB in pass rushing situations will help him.
I think most of the “too small to be a 3-4 DE comments” are in response to where people suggest he could replace Coleman or Ellis in the line-up.
As for Mangini, I blame him too, but if he was – as we found out – on a “make the playoffs or else” ultimatum, then you might forgive him for not being prepared to suffer through the growing pains when there were other adequate options for that position. Ultimately, that decision may have been his undoing though.
im one jets fan who had to hear sooo much **** from people about gholston and being a bust but with rex coming here and this system i think it brings back hope to the situation and if he can become what his potential is i dont think we realize how huge that would be for this team… Im really hoping he does
regards to Jesus Revis
I cannot look at at pictures of Vernon Gholstons Monsterous biceps and not think, this guy is on HGH or some juice
JDB – Don’t worry, I have never taken steroids and I look almost exactly the same. Well, almost. Okay, not at all. Come to think of it, I have taken steroids (for a medical issue). Alright, try this:
JDB – Well, I’ve taken steroids and I don’t look anything like that, so you can’t really read too much into it.
JDB – hahahaha, you had me laughing hard with that comment, and my girl friend said the same thing when she saw the picture. The reality is I could care less what he takes as long as hes knocking down QB’s consistently.
Don’t take this as a comparison but just something to chew on. I remember walking around a Jet game Revis’s rookie year with his jersey on. That was the 4-12 year and fans were fighting each other. I got heckled every time I walked to my seat with his jersey. People were calling him a “bust” and others were saying “hey as*hole that guy sux.” Revis didn’t exactly set the world on fire his rookie year.
I am just saying let’s give VG a shot before we call him a bust. There is so much athleticism there – I can’t see this guy never producing.
If Rex can’t – no one can. I believe!
tthe kid dominated in college playing a certain way and when he came to the JETS,we NEVER used him THAT way.Never really understood that.
just saw a thing saying that the Jets are interested in bringing Troy Smith in to compete as QB….anyone else here that?
oops meant… anyone else HEAR that?
Angel, Good Post.
People forget how good our defense started out, last season. We had the personnel to bring the pressure, we just didn’t have the coaches. if you add the players that we’ve picked up, so far, you can have a very aggressive defense. And Rex is just the guy to put it all together.
Gholston can be used as a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB. The element of surprise, or disguise, will free him up to do some damage. Watch what good coaching will do for him.
Watch Calvin Pace have an All-Pro season.
I’m a firm believer in mixing it up, and bringing the pressure from different angles, at all times. Coaches like Mangini and Sutton get me sick. There is no way on the planet that Rex let’s a rookie QB sit back in the pocket and pick us apart. If you see this happening, check Rex’s pulse.
Im hyped about rex, but im jus glad T.O didn’t got to New England, because all u would hear is, ” it don’t matter, cuz you couldn’t stop Moss and T.O”
LoX
Dude,
You were getting heckled by Jets fans for wearing Jets’ gear? Where are your seats?
Troy Smith huh? link?
for this team to be complete checklist…. please add on if you want to
(not in any order)
#1 WR
Backup DT
DE
Rex Ryan will change up the formations, and put players all over the place, but he’s not going to make Gholston a starter at 3-4 DE. Gholston did not play 3-4 DE in college, and this article makes it sound like he did. It also makes it sound like Suggs played 3-4 DE. Suggs put his hand on the ground as a 4-3 DE to rush the passer, not a 3-4 end.
Jameson,
Here it is..
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/136469-troy-smith-to-the-jets
troy smith? that would be interesting
LoX,
I find that hard to believe. Revis was awesome for a rookie. He was shutting down receivers which is unheard of for a rookie corner. If any fans were heckling you for wearing his jersey then they must have spent more time heckling than actually watching the games!
Harvlis, Im with you on Calvin Pace, I love the guy and think he is an absolute beast. He had 7 sacks last year while mostly dropping back in coverage. Watch him have a monster season in this new scheme.
I wouldn’t believe a word Mike Lombardi says, especially if it.s related to the Jets.
I agree about Pace. With the improved back 4 and Scott’s abiity to cover backs and TE’s, he can be moving forward on almost every play.
Jameson and Jesus Revis –
Unfortunately it is true – I was getting heckled. I found it just as suprising as you. I share seats in section 103. It was the Buffalo game when Revis got burned by Lee Evans for a long touchdown. The game was ugly and the Jets were in the 5th game of a 6 game losing streak. Still unacceptable to boo fellow Jet fans, but things were ugly.
Angel:
” Imagine the chaos with Gholston, Coleman, Jenkins, and Ellis with their hands in the dirt ”
This is what I was begging to see last year, begging to see it atleast once. Can’t wait to see it this year. Specially with Ellis comming in as a linebacker.
Or Big Jenk on center and Ellis, Colem and Gholston rushing behind Jenkins with Pace, Harris, Scott and Thomas behind them. Now this is what I call real organized VIOLENCE !!
im not going to lie i like troy smith he played well before he got hurt
LoX,
I remember that play like it was yesterday, Revis went up for the ball and actually had his hands on it until Elam came running out of center field to make a big hit. The only problem was he made the hit on Revis instead of Evans, and the result was Revis fell to the ground and Evans got the ball and took it for a TD. Still, it is completely unfair to call that getting “burned”. Revis played it perfectly.
Watch it again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sxkXH6gZ08&playnext_from=PL&feature=PlayList&p=34A0F7A77EC0AEB9&playnext=1&index=28
Im not sure if anyone can find the actual stats but im pretty sure Revis only gave up 2 td’s in his rookie season. 1 to Braylon Edwards on a jump ball in the endzone, and 1 to TO against Dallas on Thanksgiving.
If someone can find the actual numbers that would be great.
- If Revis only gave up 2 TD’s as a rookie while covering #1 receivers then that just further proves my point that anyone who was calling Revis a bust during his rookie season is an absolute moron.
I guess it’s pretty easy to “remember it like it was yesterday” with a youtube clip. :)
Hey give me some credit Jameson. I just threw in the youtube clip as my evidence.
hey JR,
It saved me a search… I’m a huge fan of that.
I wish everyone would make statements based on something empirical.
Unlike these Troy Smith rumors, that seem to be invented. I’m unfamiliar with bleacherreport.com, and I appreciate the link (jetfanATL) but it seems like the Troy Smith stuff is more from the school of “what if” than from “guess what I heard”.
Sometimes that’s how a good rumor gets started though. I wouldn’t mind Troy Smith being our gadget guy if he could play specials and WR, but to add him to our stable of unproven QBs doesn’t seem very match made in heaven to me… especially if we’d have to trade a draft pick to get him.
two cents
That Troy Smith story doesnt seem like anymore than a rumor at best. I hope the Jets have nothing to do with the guy personally.
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Hmmm … if I were a betting man, I’d say Gholston is a roid-head!
i think this is the year for gholston and think the reason will be ryan. eric was just to big of a P**sy to get in vernon face and hold him accountable for playing like crap.
this will not fly with ryan or scott. i also love the point about how in ryans defense, you dont play De or LB, you play a spot on the field that fits you the best.
god i miss football
instead of trading for troy smith why wouldnt we take in my opinion a more polished qb (did great in passing drills at combine) pat white? nfl anaylist said he threw the ball better then any QB there, including mark sanchez, why not get him in the 2nd round instead of trading a pick away? we get nicks or DHB in the first, white in the 2nd and just build depth from there