The TJB20: You’ll Be Screaming for the Backup Soon Enough …
Now into the second week of the TJB20, we keep the momentum going and get into the meat of things.
Votes for Brad Smith, Chinese Calendrical animal references and much more in this morning’s TJB20.
Need a second to review the rules and the panelists, check out the introductions.
11) Who will win the starting job for the Jets … Clemens? Ratliff? Ainge?
Bob Bullock from Jetstream (NJ.com): It will be Clemens, no doubt about it. Ratliff has shown some signs, but he is way too raw.
Sean McCormick from Football Outsiders: I happen to like Ainge’s potential as a pro quarterback, but right now my money would be on Ratliff. Supposedly the front office really likes his potential, and Ratliff has the skill set to run a vertical passing offense. He probably should have been the second-string quarterback last year based on his performance in training camp and preseason. Clemens has the draft accumen and he does have some ability, but it just hasn’t translated at this point, and it’s worrisome that he hasn’t come close to challenging for a starting job yet. If the organization felt good about him, they would be touting Clemens as the prohibitive favorite right now, but they’re not. I think it will be very telling to see how the snaps are distributed early in training camp. If Ratliff is getting half the snaps with the first-team offense, watch out.
Bob Glauber from Newsday: It comes down to Clemens vs. Ratliff, and I think Ratliff has a very good chance of winning the job if he outplays Clemens like he did last summer. But in the end, Rex Ryan wants a good game manager, and I think at this point, Clemens gets the edge there, so I’ll say he wins it. Of course, there are days when I go with my gut feeling and say it’ll be Ratliff, so I’ll pull a Parcells here and say that I reserve the right to change my mind.
Sean Deegan, Editor in Chief JetsInsider.com: Brett Ratliff is my guy. Watching him in practice and during pre-season games I see a guy who is big, and smart with a rocket arm who is also comfortable in Schottenheimer’s offense. I think if given the chance he has the opportunity to be special. I don’t see these qualities in Clemens. He has a big time arm but a Browning Nagle head. Seems to be very uncomfortable in the pocket and has happy feet. Ainge is too raw to even put into the picture. The Jets will probably sign a veteran before camp so I’d be surprised if Ainge makes the roster in September.
Matt Loede from NFLGridironGab.com & JetsGab.com: Clemens has the most game experience, and I think that he’s the guy that will have enough from the start of camp to the end to win the job. On the other hand, everyone seems thrilled with the outlook of Ainge and Ratliff and where they have gotten better, but I personally want to see more of Clemens so he cna either sink or swim with this new look unit.
Josh Alper from NBCNewYork.com: Clemens.
Bent from TheJetsBlog.com: I actually think it could be the “Year of the Rat”. In a run-heavy offense, he can be a game manager and throw downfield from time to time to keep the defense honest. Preseason is going to be a lot of fun, with every pass microanalyzed to the point of saturation.
Max from JetNation.com: Brad Smith. Don’t call it a comeback.
Ainge is young and has an arm that makes Pennington look like Jeff George. Kellen Clemens showed a few good things when he had a shot two years ago but last year he was terrible in camp. Word is that he wasn’t any better in practice. He is saying the right things to the media, trying to show that he is confident and can lead this team. At the end of the day words do not matter though and his performance on the field won’t be enough to beat out Brett Ratliff. Don’t expect miracles from the undrafted free agent but he will win the job and will be asked to avoid turnovers.
Jason Fitzgerald from NY Jets Cap: With everything I read it just does not sound as if the Jets organization is very high on Clemens anymore. He was terrible in 2007 and he wilted in the 2008 preseason when he had a chance to win a job from Pennington. I don?t think there is much he can do to actually win or lose the job this year. This job is probably Brett Ratliff?s job to give up. If he plays well enough in camp the Jets will give him the shot as he has more physical upside than Clemens. If last seasons preseason was nothing more than a 1 season fluke they will give Clemens the opportunity simply because there Eric Ainge is no option. In the event both look terrible the Jets will probably see about a veteran, but my guess is that Ratliff gets the starting nod in week 1 but the most likely scenario is that whomever gets the job in week 1 does not finish the year as a starter.
John Butchko from Gang Green Nation (SBN): The only one we have seen in real game action is Clemens, and he was not playing behind an NFL caliber line so it is just impossible to say. I do believe it is Kellen’s job to lose for one simple reason. Nobody really seems to be working this angle, but people do have to remember the show Clemens put on for Rex Ryan during the fourth quarter of that Week 2 game in 2007. That had to have left an impact on the new coach.
Seth Edelstein, Jet Fan Extraordinaire: ratliff will win the job. guy is 6′ 4″…… has the tools…. been in the system enough to know the deal. would like to see clemens justify the second round pick we used on him…..but my gut says ratliff beats him out.
R in CT from DamnedCT: I think starting game one, you’ll see Kellen Clemens behind center. One of the things Rex Ryan has emphasized is that he doesn’t care about passing stats, but who leads the league in wins. In 2007, Clemens went 3-5 with the same team and behind the same line that Chad Pennington could only muster a 1-7 mark with. And some of the games he didn’t win, he was awfully close in (like with Washington). Now that being said, one thing that really concerns me about Clemens is that he seemed to struggle in the red zone, settling for FGs rather than TDs. Playcalling, a bad team around him, or an inability to score? I don’t know which. But it did seem to me last year in the preseason, Ratliff was able to get more out of his red zone opportunities. Something to think about.
Corey Griffin from TheJetsBlog.com: Joe Namath, Ken O’Brien, and Chad Pennington are not walking through that door. (Sad that that’s who we turn to, isn’t it?) This is the question to confound all Jets fans. Let’s discount Ainge, as many have already done, because, let’s face it, even if he does have the potential, it’s not going to happen after a rookie year where he was suspended for four games and finished the season on IR. As far as Clemens and Ratliff, I think many inside the organization are pulling for Ratliff to win it, given all his positive press from his stellar 2008 training camp and preseason. However, it’d be silly to think that barring a spectacular offseason, camp, and preseason from Ratliff, that it won’t be Clemens under center Week 1. He’s got the most experience, albeit a handful of a starts, and he’s spent the most time under offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer. Is it the right choice? That remains to be seen. But he’s the safest choice and with the ball-control, run-based offense Ryan and Schottenheimer are planning, safe will win out.
Vote for yours in the comments.
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ratliff will be the starting QB IN 2009
At this point I would have to say Clemens will be under center in week 1. I would bet money on Ratliff seeing playing time at some point in the season unless we start out like the titans did with VY never seeing the field again bc they went on a roll.
Regardless of all these hypotheticals, I would imagine it will be up in the air until after the 2nd preseason game of the year.
The closer we get to the draft ……I fear it’s going to be Josh Freeman!
Ratliff will win the starting job and make all the pundits eat there words that the Jets do not have a QB.
AKA DREW
a lot of mocks now having us taking freeman do they know something we dont know?
i hope rex is not having flacco flashbacks because they claim rex and shotty was thrilled at his workouts.
If we need a vet (which we do, if for nothing more than a teacher) we’re in trouble. Grossman and Loseman just make me sick, even as third stringers. Who the hell is left? We should have signed Simms. That said, I want Rattie, but I think we’ll get KC. Hope he surprises me.
KC week 1 and through the 3rd quarter in week 2.
Ratliff will be given the opportunity to mount a comeback in the 4th quarter. If he puts up the “W” he’ll be our guy. If not, the Clemens experiment will continue.
Спасибо за статью. Восхищена как всегда
I would be shocked if Clemens wins the job. I cant go through another Browning Nagle. Clemens is a rollercoaster ride on every play. he does not look as playbook smart as they make him out to be. He is not calm under pressure and will make countlees mistakes. He will not manage the game and eventually he will loose the team. size is also a big problem. We made a mistake drafting him and we need to swallow it and move on. Fergeson is another bust at left tackle. he is soft. Lets give Ryan a shot to take us foward. I have confidence that he will. Patience is a virtue.
Hoz – as a general rule, “a lot of mocks” will never know something we don’t know.
Most of them have the same information available to them we do, so they are obviously interpreting a combination of factors (the perceived need for a Jets QB, the perceived want for a Jets QB after the Cutler “pursuit”, the fact that they may address their perceived need for a WR with their second pick, the fact that they had him in for a visit and the fact that Freeman is now widely talked about as being a potential mid-first round pick) to decide that the Jets might be a logical landing place for him.
Like most mocks, this is no more than a guess, as the Jets themselves probably haven’t made up their mind themselves yet.
“Fergeson is another bust at left tackle. he is soft.”
He played at a Pro Bowl level last year. You must have some high standards.
this sucks we have to watch a qb competition between ratlif and clemens how exciting!
Not to pick on John Butchko, but I’m a little tired of hearing that Clemens didn’t play behind an NFL-caliber line in 2007. That line was 21st in the league in Football Outsiders’ OL stats – that’s certainly not good, but it’s not like we were the 2003 Texans. KC and Pennington both started 8 games behind that line, and KC threw more picks than Chad, got sacked more, and had a lower ypa.
I’m not saying that Clemens doesn’t deserve another chance if he’s better than Ratliff this preseason, but let’s not say that what happened in 2007 doesn’t count when evaluating his potential.
frank, Da Brick is not a bust at left tackle. He was undersized and had areas to work on when we picked him, but he is turning into an elite NFL pass blocker. And with Faneca playing to his right, he has vastly improved his run blocking and his lack of a ‘mean streak’ (which is why I always questioned the pick).
its obvious that noone in the press or the jets fo are excited about kc
it’s seems like the coaching staff is more excited about ratliff then clemens i believe that clemens won’t get a fair crack or less he totally dominate ratliff and i don’t see that happening because to me he’s going to be better then kellen at every aspect of the game.
I understand the Clemens bashing, because he does get happy feet when the pocket collapses, he hasn’t shown pocket presence, and he was prone to mistakes in 2007 (I don’t want to get into a debate about the team in 2007, anyone who says that they were not one of the worst teams in football, and that their line was not one of the worst in the NFL is fooling themselves).
What I don’t understand is that nobody talks about Ratliff’s downside. It’s like it doesn’t exist. I read allllll about his tremendous upside, but nothing about his negatives.
Clemens’ game might not be the prettiest, but he showed in 2007 against top tier defenses that he can play. So I’m holding all judgements until TC and the preseason about both of them, and seeing where the dust settles.
Mock drafts have us REACHING for Freeman in the first round. This would be a bad move by us. We should wait until next year to draft a QB, better class coming out. Forget qb in the first 3 rounds.
RB or WR in the first (maybe Pettigrew)
TE or Oline/Dline depth in the second
skill position players the rest of the way
KC or Ratty shold do fine behind a good Oline and a strong running game. It would REALLY hepl to have a veteran reciever with velcro-hands a-la T Holt.
Since the Jets haven’t signed a veteran free agent QB (Leftwich-Bucs, Garcia-Raiders), I’m starting to believe the speculation about the Jets getting a QB in the draft. If they do go for one of the QBs in this year’s draft, it would be a pretty risky move to start him, since none of the rookie QBs will have as much experience as last year’s rookie QBs did. Whether the Jets go for a QB in the draft or not, I’m guessing Clemens will be starting. I’d rather see the strong armed Ratliff at QB, but I doubt the Jets staff will have enough confidence in his awareness and decision making to give him the reigns. I know it has nothing to do with how he plays, but I find it hard to root for a guy(Clemens) that cries when he meets the Pope. I like players who are fanatical about football, not dogmatic religion.
brendan
do you know what ratliff downside is?
it’s hard to talk about the kid downside when he posted a 122.5 QB rating and i don’t care what 2nd or 3rd string players he was playing against because if that was the point every QB should put up the same #’s right against the same competition.
Hoping Jets would have agreed, I had Leftwich pegged as the starter this year until he went and became a Buc! He would have been a nice fit but now I gotta go with whomever plays best in pre-season and in workouts.
I think the reason they have had all of these QB prospects in is to see if there was anything these kids could do that the guys they already have can’t already do.
Unless Schottenheimer saw something he can’t live without in one of these guys, I think he stays loyal to the guys he has and probably sees them as his best opportunity to getting a head coaching gig next year instead of starting with a rookie from scratch. So that being said, unless they trade for Campbell (redskins would be silly to give him up) or Derek Anderson, I think it will be all about seeing is believing with Rex. Whoever performs with the new coach watching is probably going to get the job.
Well Hoz, seeing how Ratliff didn’t get drafted, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Yes, he does indeed have downside.
While most of you on here would lead the laymen to believe that Ratliff has a golden arm, peyton’s brain and farts daisies, it just isn’t so. He has the tools, but he doesn’t excel in one specific area. He has a strong arm, but isn’t very accurate with it. He does stand tall and has a good pocket presence, but to say that he has no negatives is outrageous.
Derek Anderson…I don’t know about him. If there is to be a trade between the Jets and the Browns, I’d rather it be for B. Edwards. With the new receivers coach, Ellard, Edwards could improve his hands and become a consistent WR. He has the potential to be one of the elite WRs of the NFL.
If you want an elite receiver that can get it done in NY but needs some extra coaches time, I think Plax is the guy you go after, if he does not have to go to jail. Braylon is a nice player but I would explore Ocho Cinco and Boldin, if I were trading top draft picks, before Braylon as well.
I’ve heard that the Browns might be planning on moving out Anderson and Quinn. Combine that rumor with the report that Mangini invited Favre to visit the Browns camp and you have the reason to think that Mangini could (I know it’s unlikely) convince Favre to come out of retirement. If that absurdity comes to fruition, the Jets could trade Favre to the Browns for Edwards and either Quinn or Anderson. I know it’s not going to happen, but I can dream.
I can see Freeman gone at 12. If the Lions take a QB and the 49ers take one, Denver may feel they have to take Freeman, especially if they think we want him at 17. If the lions take Smith, there’s a chance Freeman could be available at 17. If so, we need to call the lions about trading down to their 20 and picking up an extra 3.
brendan
you said ratliff have a strong arm but not accurate?
listen i know you are high on clemens but ratliff is a much better accurate QB than he will ever be now im not saying he’s the next peyton manning but he’s the best we have on this roster and for us to have a good season he’s the man for the job.
I am willing to cut KC some slack for his 2007 showing. He did look uncomfortable in the pocket and never showed much confidence under center but neither did the guy who finished 2nd in the MVP voting last year either in Chad that year. So you cant disregard the fact that the team was awful and the O-line was a joke.
I would love to see Ratty win the job but unlike others I am not fooled by a few preseason throws. He didnt get drafted and played in a QB friendly system at Utah for really one year. There is a better chance he will amount to zero than a legit starting QB. Its just the facts
RATLIFF 09 BABY!!!!!!!!!!
i dont care which one starts; so long as it is one of them
i care because clemens is just awful
Ratliff gets the start and does well all year.
Clemens gets traded for a better backup.
Ainge gets to redo his rookie year by holding the clip board.
I just hope one of the two of them steps up and gets a grip on this team right out of the shoot. If not, we are in for another long season.
Are the Ratliff detractors the same people who downgrade him because he wasn’t an early draft choice. Has drafting improved to scientific status? Have we forgotten the 6th round selection of Brady, the undrafted Kurt Warner, and for you old-timers, John Unitas? Oh, and what of those high round superstars like Akili Smith, Alex Smith, Tim Couch, and the immortal Ryan Leaf? Ratty knows the playbook (after 2 years George Bush could learn the playbook); he has a very strong arm, is accurate, and appears to have decent touch. He only played 1 year in college in a spread offense, …so. Clemens looks like a deer in the headlights and reminds this fan of Browning Nagel.
If Ratty bombs, who among us really expects a run in the playoffs? And if he emerges the way a Brady, a Montana (3rd rd), Hasselbeck (6th rd) and for you old-timers-Brian Sipe (13th rd), then the sky is the limit. So how about focusing on a #1 receiver and resolving the BS with our RBs.
Hoz, Ratliff’s biggest knock coming out of college was accuracy. He is not ‘a much better accurate QB’ then Clemens can ever be. Both have accuracy under the ‘needs to improve’ list, but you can’t say Ratliff has a decisive edge or blows Clemens away in any aspect of the game.
Pound4pound, one guard and one tackle on that line didn’t play a snap in 2008. That’s not an NFL caliber line regardless of what FO’s numbers say.
You know what is very funny a year ago i am sure the Pats did not think Matt cassel will deliver when they needed him the guy never played in the NFL.
so why is everyone so down on our guys???????? give them a chance to show they can do it and i am sure they will.
I’m with pound4pound. Yes, the Jets’ OL was terrible in ‘07, but KC had the 6th worst QBR of any starting QB in this decade. Let’s not put lipstick on his pig of a statistical performance… he was AWFUL. And, if I hear again how he “won” 3 games, I’m going to puke. Each of the wins were because of the terrible competition (Fins, Chiefs) or because of the best defensive game plan of the Mangini-era (Pittsburgh). How about his stinkbomb game against the Browns, who had the worst defense in the NFL in 2007?
Now, here’s my favorite point, which no pundit ever addresses, he’s too short. Here’s what Stats Inc. has to say about Nate Davis, who is 6-1 3/8″
“He is shorter than ideal and there must be concern regarding his ability to see the entire field within a pro-style offense behind a NFL-sized offensive line.”
Clemens is only (at best) 1/4″ taller!!!! And, he may be shorter! He had all the problems that would be associated with a shorter QB. Happy feet, no pocket patience and rushed decision-making, even with protection. He’s just not an NFL-caliber QB and the quicker the Jets recognize this fact, the sooner they can start planning for the future.
SackDance99,
He not only played with a terrible OL, he also played with NO running game, a terrible #2 receiver in Justin McCareins, and a terrible defense which gave up a ton of points. Peyton Manning wouldn’t have won much behind that line! Now believe me, I am under no circumstances comparing Clemons to Manning, but he hasn’t had a fair shot. Plus he did have some good moments, and he would have won 4 games if his receivers hadn’t dropped every pass thrown to them at the end of the Baltimore game. I’m not saying he is definitely going to be a good QB, but i am also not ready to give up on him that fast. I think it will be a good competition between Clemons and Ratliff.
Anybody but Ainge, if you ask why you haven’t watched him play.
Ratliff will be the starter or we get a vet, but it better be soon they are being signed left and right.
I don’t have a dog in this fight so this isn’t my vote for Clemens, I want the best player to start. However, I’m still working my way through the 2007 season to evaluate Clemens. I just finished watching the Washington game, actually, Clemens looked very good. He put together 4 or 5 well executed sustained drives on his way to putting up 20 points in regulation. #89 had the catch and fumble that kept points off the board and an OT drop that would have put us in FG range. #29 (who did run back the opening kickoff to give us a quick 7) had a huge drop, wide open, that could have gone for an easy 6. #1 missed a 54 yarder before the half but 11 did a good job getting us in position.
In this game Clemens looked every bit the real deal. No happy feet, no indecisions, good accuracy, several throws on the run, and he used his legs to make a few 1st downs (ala Matt Cassel). We lost the game 23/20 but with a little help it could have been a win for Clemens.
Dylan,
I agree with you totally. On top of everything you have stated, you can add the fact that the play-calling was horrendous and that it was Clemens’ first real action of his young career. Since when did a portion of one season give fans enough ammunition to make a decision about a QB’s future capabilities? I am not even a fan of Clemens but I know not to rush to judgement.
That being said, I was impressed with Ratliff and I hope he wins the job. I thought Ratliff outplayed Clemens, all pre-season. If I attended five practices — Ratliff was more impressive in four. In the pre-season games, there was no comparison. I am hoping that Ratliff has enough poise to step in, like Matt Cassel or Joe Flacco, and do enough to make us competitive. Let our Defense do the rest.
Tish,
I agreed with the first part of your post but, I do expect us to make a run at the playoffs. As opposed to the naysayers, I think we have enough overall talent on this team to get there. Then again, I thought that last season.
I just want to say I feel honored to be part of this. Thanks for putting it together Bassett. Some big names here Bullock, Glauber, Deegan.
Thanks for doing this.
Doug in LV…trust me on this one. Your speaking to a brick wall regarding the KC detractors. It’s almost as if there is a reflexsive dislike for the guy. They’ve made up their minds – the guy can’t play – move on without him. For a kid with virtually no track record it is almost amusing. To them, it sounds like he should be released. Today!! Oh well, give the kid a shot and see what happens this summer. Only 3 more months to her the moaning about his size, the Pope, his happy feet etc. etc.
Doug in LV, I’ve posted several times that the Redskins game was KC’s best. But, when you get to the Cleveland game, you’ll see a different KC. Oh, and just don’t bother watching the Dallas game or his terrible stint against Buffalo, in a game which was far from over when he came in. Make sure that you note that KC has only 1 start in his brief career where he cracked a 60% completion rate. That’s just not good.
As for the “KC had nothing in ‘07″ apologists, he had the worst QBR for a starting QB in ‘07, worse than Cleo Lemon with the Fins. Also, the Peyton Manning comparison is ridiculous. KC wasn’t a rookie in ‘07, he was a second-year starter. He had 2 training camps and a valuable season of clipboard holding before he had a start. His experience has no comparison to Manning’s. But, if you want an analog, look at JP Losman’s career. He sat his first season, started his second and stunk, on a bad Buffalo team. It wasn’t the Bills’ team, however, because when the Bills got better, Losman still stunk. IMO, KC’s level as a pro is somewhere between Rex Grossman and JP Losman. That’s just not good enough.
all Im saying is Kellen hasnt a FAIR SHOT yet. For everyone to say hes garbage so soon is just ignorant. WE will have an OPEN competition during offseason and may the BEST QUARTERBACK WIN!
It’s already been said in tis thread but the closer we get to the draft I think it’ll go something like:
1) Ratliff
2) Josh Freeman
3) Some veteran signed before camp.
Ainge and Clemenswill get traded. Probably to the Browns so Mangini can have all his old friends on the same team. Hell let’s give them Brad Smith too.