Buzz: Is There “Chatter” For Campbell?
Posted on April 22nd, 2009 by Bassett
NFL Network’s Steve Wyche reported tonight on Total Access that there is “chatter” that the Jets might try to trade for Redskins QB Jason Campbell on draft day if the Redskins move up to draft Matthew Stafford.
I like Campbell, and I know that Tannenbaum is doing his usual “leave no stone unturned” routine. Still, all the rumors around the Jets regarding QBs are enough to get an idea of what they think of their own QBs, no matter what they say to the press …
More as we hear it …
I wonder how much campbell is worth a 3rd rder?
Have we learned nothing from the Patrick Ramsey experiment?
Stafford is all but locked in with the Lions. 7 yr $80mm is what I’ve heard.
The Skins love Sanchez but I’m not sure they have the ammo to move up…if they do- Rams and Seahawks as possibilities- I would think Campbell would need to be involved.
No way the Jets go after him.
Hoz is probably correct- Redksins are clueless and would at least command a Qb. Hoping the FO, agrees we have 5 positions of need before the Qb- this isn’t even a possibility…
Campbell, eh
** Sorry- I mean to say ‘at least command a 3rd Rd for this Qb’ **
I really dislike this possibility…He hasn’t done anything in the league he has a top rb a solid set of receivers and a good defense and he has never thrown for more than 13 td in a season please leave him in washington. I think the guys on the roster have just as much talent as he does and we would wind up with the same results as if we traded for campbell.
Im shocked, and not to pleased, I rather have clemens and keep our pick, wow
NO! I feel like we just dodged the Miles Austin bullet and then they just lay this stuff on us.
Nothing but a 4th rounder
Not interested- I think we have probably seen the extent of what Campbell is capable of, and would prefer to go into the season with Clemens. Especially with the crop of wideouts currently on the team, not sure what upside Cambell provides this team.
please no!!!!!
tay did you actually say solid set of receivers with a straight face? are you kidding? beyond antwan randle el, what solid receivers do you see? Not campbells fault he is in a dump and pass system that rellies on the run. Kid was a stud in college and has more potential then any of the three on our team WITH more playing experience.
not that im saying I want him, but he would be an upgrade. and if you dont think that youre out of your noodle.
Wait a second. No one wants Campbell on this blog now, but just a few weeks ago alot, but not all, of the commenter on this blog wanted to give up a slew of draft picks for Cutler.
Why does no one want Campbell, but there was an outcry for Cutler? Campbell was just as good, if not better then Cutler was last year. Campbell also played with less talent and for an inferior coach.
I’m not saying the Jets should get Campbell, but all of those Jets fans that wanted Culter should also want Campbell.
Tyler- are you saying that Randle El is their best receiver with a straight face????
Santana is as good as a deep threat as you can get, Cooley is among the top 5 receiving TE’s in the league and Portis have averaged over 30 rec each yr with the Skins.
No, not Campbell. Please no.
I would rather spend a 3rd rounder on Jason Campbell than take Freeman in the 1st round. They are very similar. Getting Campbell would mean the Jets can take the BPA at 17, possibly a WR.
Have you watch Campbell and Cutler play? Cutler is 10x better than Campbell. Campbell has the potential to be good, but has been inconsistant since joining the league
I hope we are smart enough to avoid the Redskins sloppy seconds on this guy.
vbsiena,
So you would rather give up 2 1st roundersand more for Cutler than give up probably a 3rd rounder for Campbell?
Sorry, but I’m taking the Campbell deal. It would make much more sense for the Jets. The Jets are going to be a run heavy offense next season, so it wouldn’t make sense to trade so much for a QB like Cutler.
RJ
i have to agree with you i would also rather spend a 3rd or 4th rd pick on campbell than a 1st rd pick on freeman.
The Campbell Cutler comparsion is absurd. No need to debate that
Id rather give up 2 first rounders for Cutler than give up $6.50 for Campbell
This may be a chance for the Jets to have their cake and eat it too. That is if none of the marqui QBs fall, the Jets could get another good QB to put in the mix and still use a hgh pick on the WR. I wouldn’t make any moves till gametime if I were the Jets.
It’s a sad state of the team that this topic has received so many responses…
I was wondering about this when I first heard that Washington may target Sanchez. Anybody know why they’ve soured on Cambell?
igs, because Campbell stinks
Redskins are high on Sanchez only…
I’ve seen him play. I don’t think he stinks. He’s raw. But I mean does anyone have any specific stories, gossip, disputes, about the situation?
Noooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!! Campbell is not a good pro, nor was he good at Auburn.
chris- color me stupid but i forgot about moss lol , they all still blow though. Your TE shouldnt be 2nd on your team in receiving yards, and your rb sure as hell shouldnt be 4th
Devin Thomas 120 yards 0 TD (2nd round pick 08)
James Thrash 81 yards 1 TD
Malcom Kelley 18 yards 0 TD (2nd round pick 08)
I dont care if Rex Grossman or Joe Montana is throwing to you, thats crap. and these guys are supposed to be the 3-5 receivers? that is NOT solid recieving core
My point is the man worked with CRAP FOR REVEIVERS LOL, give him a chance.
Tyler as explained above cooley is one of the better TE in the league and santana is pretty good last time I checked. And they soured on him because he sucks he will be holding a clipboard and wearing a visor soon. If they were gonna go this route they should have signed leftwich.
And…
It is the Redskins guys.
Campbell does not stink….he’s still developing and his completion % has been above 60% the past 2 seasons. He also has a strong arm. Tell me why he stinks..
Tyler.
Not to be a jerk but you’re a dummy. In his 2 full seasons with the Skins Moss has averaged 80 catches for 1200 yds and 8 tds per.
Those are true #1 numbers, so it doesn’t matter much who provides add’l production after that. You also listed two rookies and a grandpa on your examples- the guys who are 3-5 on their depth chart.
For the Jets returning core, the TE is 2nd in yards and the RB (Leon) is 4th!!! And both Thrash and Thomas outproduced Clowney last yr.
So, my friend- however, you classify the Skins, duplicate that thoughts your the Jets.
I don’t know that I wholly agree with Tay that they are ’solid’ down in DC but I certainly think you have underestimated, especially with the omission of Moss.
The fact that someone would say Campbell was just as good as Cutler is ridiculous. They should stay put and draft Moreno or trade down. WR are way to unpredictable to draft that high. Draft a rb..Jones will be too old after next year or trade down and then take a wr. If they draft Freeman I am going to puke.
tay- one of the better TEs in the league? he had 800 yards and 1 touchdown on year! i had him on my fantasy team and had to sit and get beat by every opposing TE out there!
over the course of his career he is one of the better ones yeah, but not last year by any means.
anyways campbell is just as mediocre as our 3 qbs, just a very tiny bit better. i would rather try to swing a trade for delhomme (wont happen)
2008 washington 16 16 83 849
2007 Washington Redskins 16 16 66 786
2006 Washington Redskins 16 16 57 734
2005 Washington Redskins 16 16 71 774
2004 Washington Redskins 16 9 37 314
Cooleys career stats games game starts catches yards.
I don’t think anyone was comparing Cutler to Campbell. I was simply comparing the trades each QB warrants.
Bungi, So you pass on a Calvin Johnson or a Randy Moss or a Larry Fitzgerald if their available? I don’t get that thinking.
wow it is pretty sad though that we are arguing about chris cooley/jason campbell of all things.
just goes to show you how bad we need a stud qb :(
chris-
by the way clowney was injured half of last season, so no comparison. and its not like we use LJ as a true rb anyways?
Bungi, you should get a bucket ready on draft day then because I have a feeling the Jets might just take Freeman at 17.
Tyler- I agree w you there!!! This topic is making me depressed thinking about the Jets….
Please folks, before we spend another year campaigning for an outsider at Qb- whether through the draft, trade, free agency, let’s give the guys on our roster a shot first.
We have many holes, QB is just one. Let’s use this draft wisely and stock up on young talent, grabbing playmakers on offense along with some depth at our lines and skill positions.
Then let our guys battle it out this summer and we’ll support whoever wins the job!!!!!
I would take Jason Campbell he is good he has just been in two or three different systems in the past couple of seasons which make him look inconsistent.
campbell is better than any QB we have on this roster point blank
for a 4th or 3rd round pick I would jumb at this trade. Cambells stats are pretty good better than the suberbowl winning QB! not that far behind Cutler who had Barandon Marshell to go to. He does not turn the ball over that much, only 6 interceptions in 506 atemps compared to cutlers 18 ints in 616 atemps exactly what Ryan would want form his QB
Cambell has 4 different offensive coordinators so far in his NFL carrier, a bit of stability would do him the world of good.
He may not be a Manning but for a 3rd round pick he would be pretty good bit of buisness in my opion.
I say let these qb’s play and see what u have that line that clemens played with was horrible he lucky to still be able to walk under his own power when he started those 8 games the season before last. Some of those game he was without both coles and cotchery u can’t measure him under those conditions. Campbell I believe is a year older than clemens u already know what he is and I think we have seen his ceiling to be quite honest u don’t know what u have in ratliff and clemens let them play and if they aren’t the answer get a qb next year.
Tyler- Leon is an RB. Forget his use…he lines up in the backfield. On occassions he’ll split wide, just as Portis does.
In regards to Clowney- you’re right but I figured I’d bring him up as you used Malcolm Kelly who was only active for 5 games…
i agree with hoz 100%, he might not be all that great. but he is better then anybody currently on our team.
so whats that say about our guys? :( and trust me I would love to eat my words a year from now after clemens/ratliff take us to the playoffs
…just dont see it happening with them.
The thing that makes Campbell’s career so hard to evaluate is that he’s played under 7 different OC’s in the past 8 years (college and pros). Every year he’s had to learn a new system – and for the past 12 months he’s had to deal with constant trade rumors because his owner always wants the next shiny toy. Even with all that, Campbell’s been exceptional at not throwing INT’s, and his accuracy has gotten better every year (62% comp last season). Plus, he’s got the tools: he’s big, mobile and has a really strong arm.
He’s never going to become the next Peyton or anything, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he lands somewhere else and becomes a Pro-Bowl caliber QB.
And if you look at his stats he is only getting better.
I will say this over and over until Saturday night. Today is the official opening of don’t believe anything you read season regarding the NFL draft.
chris-
good point, egg on the face over here.
yea with all the smoke screens BUT this one could actually have some truth to it.
It’s sad that we haven’t learned from bringing teams cast off qb’s yet..o’donnell, esaison, favre, mirer, reich and we let one of our own go that was better then those guys remember jeff blake it de ja vu all over again.
Dont understand this move. mr t is spreading himself thin. Stick w the game plan. Trust ur qbs. jets once again tryn to do to much
I still don’t think Campbell is undoubtedly better than KC, or Ratty.
For the number geeks…explain this to me:
In 2008, Campbells YPA was 6.41?????
25th in the league!!!
In 2008, 2.6% TD ratio?????
30th in the league!!!
Come on folks!
And for those keeping score, his numbers in 2007 were basically the same, good for 24th and 26th rankings respectively…
He is a game manager like dilfer and that’s all he will ever be yes he mobile, and has a live arm but that doesn’t make u a good qb by now with the playing time he has received he should be much farther ahead in his development. mobility and a strong arm can be said about vince young, and russell with oakland do u want them as well?
this is what im thinkin….y cant the jets trade tj to the cards and get boldin..and the jets and cards switch 1st round picks so the cards move up…plus the jets throw in like a late rounder…sounds fair right?? then they can get moreno! perfect!
If the Jets are really looking at Cambell it doesn’t say much for what they think if Kellen. Ratty has no experience and if they do trade for Cambell atleast they have a QB with some experience. He would be a better option then any QB they could get in the 3rd or 4th rd. He has great size and a live arm and just might fit their style of a running game and game manager. 35 TD’s and 23 INt’s in 36 games and 60% completion rate. I would think he becomes the starter and would proably beat out Kellen.
you guys are crazy if you wouldn’t trade a 3rd or 4th rder for him, redskins fans was saying if they trade campbell they expect a low 1st rder or high 2nd rd pick for him………….that show you what they think about him in dc he’s right in that 2nd tier of QB’S
Folks.
# 1. Washington does not have the ammo to move up for Sanchez. If they did, it would most likely include a package w Campbell.
#2. If they don’t move up- what is their motivation to trade Campbell???
#3. Forget his live arm because he’s had one of the better deep threats in the league and still have less than a 6.5 ypa.
#4. For all those writing the completion %, I’m fairly certain a high number of you were running Pennington out of town…look at his career toss numbers!
If the Skins want Sanchez, package with Big Al Montgomery.
campbell doesnt turn the ball over….only 6 ints last year…..that sounds like the type of football rex ryan wants to play……..oh and give him a break…he had a different coordinator each year he was a pro…how can he be consistant when he’s constantly learning new schemes……
Nah more like third tier let him stay in DC. If he were any good they would have had cutler. They (den) like orton better then campbell thats why the deal didn’t get done.
Preach on chris
Chris, you can’t tell me Campbell doesn’t have a stronger arm than Pennington.
Lets not compare penny and campbell he falls short to chad even with his superior arm.
So, the Redskins, having had Campbell play for them, are opting for a different QB and we should take the guy that they don’t think they can win with. Is there any sense to that. Wake up.
After Tannenbaum has drafted our QB’s, he has to see if they are worth anything. You can’t do that, unless you play them. If they don’t do well, this year, then we will probably be able to grab one of the elite QB’s in next years’ draft. If they play well — everybody’s happy.
Except for Stafford, there are no guaranteed QB stars in this draft.
I saw the phrase “sloppy seconds” used above, and I think that hits the nail on the head. No-thanks.
So what about Pat White guys?
Been looking for old draft notes to get some perspective. As much as I want to see Clemens get a chance the idea that Clemens would have been a first round pick if he didn’t hurt his leg seems to be some Jets PR since I can’t find that anywhere.
Take a look at these old SI links:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2006/draft/players/1595.html
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/players/65730.html
I find it interesting that today’s USA Today posted their mock today with 8 guys doing the selecting. ALL 8 picked the Jets to draft Freeman! What do these guys know?
From what I saw of Campbell last year, they really slimmed down the offense and made it very low risk for him. Everything was underneath. Based upon that, I haven’t seen anything that would lead me to want him at all, never mind at the cost of picks.
I think a trade for campbell wouldnt be a bad idea but we’d have to get rid of kellen. To have the two compete would divide the locker room. Trade kellen for a third and get campbell with a second.
All you need to know about Campbell is that Denver didn’t want him because they thought Orton was better. Orton….
RJ.
Yes- he has a stronger arm. My point is, what’s the use in numbers like completion percentage if your average attempt ratio is barely over 6 yds!!!!
this is all smokescreens right now, 1st it was boldin than it was sanchez and now it’s campbell, and guess what tomorrow it will be somebody else.
Hoz.
You’re right- that’s the fun of it…but it’s better when we’re talking about guys who actually could make the Jets exciting!
The trade for Boldin is one, potential of guys like Britt, Nicks, Moreno…2nd rd pipe dreams like Brace, Gilbert or intriguing guys like Greene, Moala, Hill, Pettigrew.
But this Campbell stuff is wasted chat…
now u guys are jumpin to conclusions. Who knows what the jets would do. They might just be bluffin and dont belive everthing u read. I think kells can run the o. If not the jets would look like idiots if they dont sign/draft a qb.
I think Kellen and Ratty will do very good but at the same time I dont think its smart to bank everything on a wishful fan who wants his team to do excellent. If kellen beats out Jason then hey a third rounder would of been a bench rider anyway but If Jason wins we just got a good QB for a 3rd rounder.
Plus I dont think it would hurt to trade a third rounder for Campbell and just trade back in the 1st for another 2nd round pick and trade that first for Anquan Boldin and just marinate in the perfect draft day if we draft Lesean Mccoy.
I don’t want Jason Campbell!!!
chris im with you on that
i looked at 20 mock drafts today and 75% of them have us taking josh freeman……i just shake my head because it’s not a secret that we have a real QB problem on our team, and i said to my self our QB’S suck this bad.
I dont get how this is a smoke screen I was thinking trading up for sanchez and drafting Pettigrew were smoke screens.
NO NO NO NO NO, GOD PLEEEASE NO!
Freeman would be a HUGE mistake. He’s a project, and we’re a win-now team. He does NOTHING to help us. Even his proponents admit he needs some serious seasoning. We afre not a team in rebuilding mode – no way he makes ANY sense.
hey bassett
with the changes to the system of getting wristbands and getting into the draft could u get some details on when people should go to start lining up…
if not does anyone have any idea wen to go…?
Agreed…Freeman has the biggest bust potential of this entire draft. Part of it is because his ‘measurables’ provide the thought that the ceiling is high but no matter what, he does not show any evidence of being a pro QB, let alone a 1st rounder!
Bet this is a rumor started by Washington to pump up the market for Campbell. Our FO knows how to keep things quiet when they need to.
Some where Mike Tannenbaum and Rex Ryan are reading this (trading for Campbell) and shaking their collective heads, wondering who makes this crap up, and why does everyone believeit.
Lets get real, the Jets are not going to get Sanchez for one reason and one reason only, Seattle wants and needs him, the Jets would have to break into the top 4 in order to draft him. Denver has 2 number 1’s and are dying for a QB, they better draft one, or thars a gonna be a linchin in theessee hear parts! Josh Mcdaniels on a rail out of town in 2 years.
Bassett,
I agree with you. I also like Campbell and think he can be a serviceable qb. However, I strongly disagree with you that this is necessarily a negative reflection of our current qb’s.
The org could very well be happy with one or both of our qb’s and still be in the market for a good alternative. It is good business practice to prepare for as many contingencies as possible. I see no conflict in being comfortable with our in house choices (Ainge is a non-factor at the moment) and still be looking for a safety net as well.
I like Clemens and believe he could succeed as our qb and see upside potential in Ratliffe. That being said, neither qb has a proven track record. That would go for a number one draft choice, as well. Until proven, there is risk. Clemens or Ratliffe could blow the roof off in training camp and impress all, yet fail under game conditions or get injured. There is just no way to know. Should our chosen qb fail, you want to protect the ship from sinking. Should he succeed, you now own an extra commodity to be bartered sometime in the future.
What all these rumours say to me, if in fact they are true, is that we have a leader with good business sense, nothing more. They imply nothing about what this organization thinks of our qbs
And I seriously doubt that Campbell would command a high draft choice, expecially if Washington drafts Sanchez. Time will tell.
especially
And Chad this year will go to the probowl!!
For the Jets to even consider this shows what they feel about the QBs on the roster. Campbell is serviceable at best. He could probably fit the Trent Dilfer type role better than Clemens or Ratliff could, but we need a franchise QB not a commitment to a set of QBs that are clearly worse than what we have had since 2002.
What’s with all the Campbell hate on this blog? I think he can be better than serviceable and would certainly be a better option than Sanchez or Freeman if the Jets brass don’t believe in Clemens. I wouldn’t mortgage the future for Campbell but if the team is going to take a QB in the later rounds anyway why not instead get one who is more experienced.
Campbell is a talented QB that with the right surroundings would look pretty good, no tom brady or Manning but maybe a Mcnabb.
Besides the constant offensive style switch he is playing with a mediocre defense and receivers and a good running game.
I would only pursue Campbell if we got Boldin though.
Campbell was the talk of the NFL early last season. The guy didn’t throw a pick until week 9 and had 8tds…I think. I’m pretty sure there was something about him almost breaking the completed passes in row record too. I’d love a guy that can protect the ball and so would Rex.
He’s not going to win the game all on his own, but he will take care of the ball and he fits what Rex wants to do with the offense. He’s used to handing it off a lot and relying on the defense. He’s not the kind of guy that the Jets would be reluctant to pull in favor of one of their guys either. I’m not saying that would be necessary, just that he’s not a Jay Cutler type.
He proved that this off season when the Cutler talks made their way to Washington. He handled it like a man.
I’d like to see a poll on this blog to see how many fans would be in favor of Campbell.
Given how many different OCs Campbell has had, it’s tough to get a read on him. On the positives, he’s tall, mobile has a good arm, is accurate and doesn’t turn the ball over. He’s improved every year in the league and he didn’t throw a pick for his first 8 games last season. On the flip side, his YPA, TDs and overall production are below average. Scouts Inc. gives him an average 74 rating, but KC is a poor 64. I don’t see how Campbell wouldn’t be a significant upgrade over KC and a good hedge in case Ratty doesn’t show progress.
This is precisely why the Redskins are going nowhere fast. Instead of trying to provide some stability for their QB who has never enjoyed the luxury of playing in the same offensive system in consecutive years, they’re looking to play more fantasy football and reshuffle their roster.
I for one would gladly welcome Campbell to the Jets. He has real live experience and a ton of talent that has yet to be taken full advantage of. Shottenheimer could do big things with this guy at the controls. Add to that the fact that he’d probably come cheap…why not make the move?
SD99, you would think anyone is an upgrade over KC. You can’t compare campbell’s 32 games to KC’s 8. Just can’t do it, you are way too biased against him. Let him play more than 8 games before you pass supreme judgment on him.
The Big Bear draft strategy
Option 1: Try to move up, offering our #1 and #2, to get Sanchez
Option 2: See if one of the following drops to us: BJ Raji, T Jackson, A Smith, J Maclin, maybe M Oher, maybe M Jenkins, maybe K Moreno. If so, take him. Consider moving up a couple spots for modest consideration to get one of these guys
Option 3: If possible, trade down, then consider couple WRs, J Gilbert, R Brace, trade for A Boldin with lower pick
Option 4: Take BPA if stuck at 17 without targeted guy on board
I want to see Campbell in green and white really bad. Please Tanny make the move.
how come no ones talking about Donald Brown?
I have heard Rahshard jENNINGS, Moreno, Beanie, and Mccoy but I havent heard Donald Brown.
But I agree with J-E-T-S
Jason Campbell, Anquan Boldin and a Donald Brown, Moreno, Beanie Wells is a New York Jets Draft Day Wet Dream.
If we don’t get Sanchez, I would consider getting Campbell for modest consideration. I would not sign him to a LT deal, however. Not sure that Washington would trade him this year even if they get a QB in the draft (I wouldn’t).
NYCParkingExpert,
I didn’t compare them, I cited Scouts Inc. Campbell is rated significantly higher than KC. And, if you want to compare Campell’s 2006 to KC’s 2007, go ahead. They both sat their first years and started 7 full games (KC got an early KO in NE) in their second year. Campbell’s stats in 2006 were clearly superior. Their completion percentages weren’t great Campbell was 53.1% and KC at 52%, but Campbell threw 10 TDs (to KC’s 5) and 6 INTs (to KC’s 10). In his 7 starts, Campbell broke an 80 QBR 4 times, including over 90 twice. KC broke 80 once, against Miami with a 91.7. Overall, Campbell’s QBR was a low, but respectable, 76.5, KC’s was a dismal 60.9…the seventh worse for a starter this decade to that point. And, you can’t claim that the Skins had a much better team, they were 5-11 in 2006. So, slam me if you want, but Campbell has been a better NFL QB than KC at 7 starts and I have no reason to believe that KC would get to be better than Campbell with 24 more starts, that’s why Campbell got a 74 rating from Scouts Inc to KC’s 64.
What you call bias, I call being realistic. I think it’s folly to expect KC to magically improve from a 60.9 QBR to over 80, which is barely acceptable, and I’m still waiting for someone to give me an example of a second year QB, that didn’t start his first year (like KC and Campbell or Favre and Brady), who stunk as bad as KC and, yet, became a franchise QB. I’ve only found one comparable example, JP Losman, and let’s just say he’s not exactly a franchise QB.
The draft can’t come soon enough. I hope the Jets get Campbell, Boldin or Edwards, and get lucky in the draft.
I’m gonna say it again. If somehow this were to happen I say get Big Al Montgomery (6-6 320)…they have Haynesworth (Al becomes expendable), or Kendric Gholston…this dude can also stuff the run, with protoypical size to play in a 3-4, and can be moved into the interior in a 3-4. Would be an upgrade to Kenyon in terms of versatility…should be cheaper too if he wanted a long term contract.
“I meant interior in the 4-3 scheme.”
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!
ANYONE wanting CAMBELL is out of their MIND!
Whats in play here is 17, if you pull out your old Trade Value Chart , the 17th pick and Washingtons pick 13 will enable the Skins to move up to the 3 spot (Kansas City) just ahead of Seattle. Snyder wants Sanchez,, Pioli of KC will trade down for 13 and 17 in a heartbeat. The question is what does the desperate Snyder need to do to make this happen, he only has 4 additional picks.
If I am the Jets I would take Campbell, Washingtons 3rd (80) and 5th (156) and another player ,WR Devin Thomas for the 17th pick. Or you do Campbell, 3 & 5th picks this year and 2010 second round pick. Snyder is desperate for Sanchez, and the Jets at 17 could be his solution. I have been drinking the Jet Kool Aid for years, and believe that Clemens/ Ratliff will be fine, but maybe Rex knows the real deal.
Campbell is exactly the kind of player who is worth bringing in- he has real and demonstrated ability (he is better than anyone currently on the roster), and he would come much cheaper than a rookie who required trading up into the top of the round. If Washington was foolish enough to sell him for fifty cents on the dollar, the Jets should absolutely go get him.
While no Clemens defender, I’m more optimistic about his chances of pulling a Drew Brees this season than sack is. (And by optimistic, I mean to say that I think it’s a possibility, not a probability.) But that said, the organization needs to have a plan should Clemens–or Ratliff, for that matter–not develop. I’m not crazy about the San Diego model of adding a first round quarterback to the mix, because I don’t think it is replicable. The Chargers traded down, received extra first and third round picks, and came away from it with the safest quarterback prospect since Peyton Manning. Even had Rivers bombed, which was unlikely considering his track record, they received enough draft compensation to make the move worthwhile. The Jets, in contrast, would be trading away picks this year and potentially next year in order to move up and select one of two very risky prospects, neither of whom is ready to compete for a starting job. So if Clemens plays well this year, the team has spent its first round pick on a player the team doesn’t quite know what to do with (and Clemens would need to be re-signed to a long-term deal at that point, further muddying the waters). If Clemens plays badly this year, the team will go into next year with yet another uncertain quarterback situation and not much in the way of draft ammunition to improve the situation for the new player. It’s not ideal. But adding talent like Campbell for mid level picks is a different story.
“I’m still waiting for someone to give me an example of a second year QB, that didn’t start his first year (like KC and Campbell or Favre and Brady), who stunk as bad as KC and, yet, became a franchise QB. I’ve only found one comparable example, JP Losman, and let’s just say he’s not exactly a franchise QB.”
Sack – you’re right, I don’t think there is one. However, as a devil’s advocate type question, I’ve deconstructed that a bit…
Chad, Cassell and Romo. All examples of guys that sat on the bench for a few years, then came in and were effective immediately. I’m sure there are other differences, but for now I would like you to consider this:
If any of those three had been called in to start halfway through their second year due to injury (when they were presumably not “NFL ready”) do you think any/all of them would have performed any better than Clemens? If that had transpired, then maybe you would have your example!
I do accept that such a stint can negatively affect a player’s development though.
jets r looking desperate for no reason. i wish we would get bolden or ocho cinco and call it a day. Its like the jets r scared of the draft or somethin. All these extra moves r makin no sence this is a game of chest not checkers. Just trade back and get a xtra pick and pray
campbells only trait that is better than clemenss is his height. Is that worth a pick? please NO!!!!
Bent,
My completely empirical thesis is that QBs do get more experienced, even if they don’t play an NFL down, if they participate in training camp, pre-season, run the scout team and hold a clipboard during the regular season. Chad, IMO, doesn’t really fit as a comparison to Cassell or Romo because, like Rivers, he was a highly touted prospect and 1st rounder who was the “heir apparent.” You can throw in Aaron Rogers into that mix, too. So, we don’t know what Chad, Rivers or Rogers would have done as a second-year starter, but I think you’d agree that you would not have expected them to post a 60.9 QBR.
Cassell and Romo are different stories and I would agree that, despite their physical ability, I would not have expected them to be great as 2nd-year starters. They also weren’t 2nd round picks; they had to work hard to even be kept on the roster and, maybe that chip on their shoulders motivated them. The question is would they have been as bad as KC given a shot? That’s my overall point, KC wasn’t Cassell or Romo, he came in as a possible rookie starter. When he did finally start, his play went from promising to incompetent.
But, I have a question for you, isn’t Ratty’s NFL experience closer to the successful Cassell or Romo? They’re much better comparables than JP Losman!
Sack,
While Steve Young started a few games as a rookie, he was a disaster as a second-year starter.
If I had to pick a starter today I would take KC. Campbell isn’t great or even good. He may have only thrown 6ints last year, but the year before that he threw roughly double. Ratliff has no pressure, but I doubt he will be NFL ready for another few years and if we rush him he never will be.
Sack – Claiming KC has no chip on his shoulder is ludicris. Every where the guy turns people doubt him. I don’t know how you react to things, but I’d have a huge chip on my shoulder. In 07 you were screaming for him when Chad was doing bad. Then you screamed for Favre after giving upon him after 8 games on a team I hated watching. The Jets O playcalling was horrible in 07 and incredibly vanilla. You are stuck in this he is a second rounder mumbo jumbo. After draft day that is a meaningless number. It is about how you play. He may never be anything, but your continued bashing of him is not only over kill, but repetitive. If you are so adamant about it talk to Tanny. Ive read this stuff for two years from you and still think he is the best QB on the roster.
We get it. I’m just glad his contract is almost up, so I wont see the same thing again. I could impersonate you and no one would notice I have seen it soo many times.
Here’s the thing about Clemens- I don’t hold his 2007 performance against him. After all, he was playing behind an offensive line that was so bad that many people assumed that Chad Pennington could no longer be an NFL starter anymore. As it turns out, the problem was the line, and when placed behind a different line, Pennington was back among the top 10 quarterbacks in football. So that line really gave Clemens no shot to succeed.
What I do have a problem with is that Clemens was uncompetitive in the quarterback competition last offseason. I don’t have a problem with him not beating Chad out- Chad is a quality NFL starter- but I do have a problem with him showing so little that the team makes a panic move for Brett Favre. That doesn’t fill me with confidence.
Again, I do think that Clemens has a decent chance to have things come together for him this season, especially if the team helps him by drafting a major offensive weapon (maybe Moreno, maybe Pettigrew, maybe Macklin, maybe Wells) rather than his potential replacement. But I agree that the team should do more than simply hope things work out. If they really like their quarterback stable, then fine. If they have any questions, they should be looking at every avenue to add quality competition that does not involve surrendering their entire draft for an underclassman rookie. And to Tanny’s credit, that seems to be exactly what he’s doing.
mole57,
Steve Young’s 2nd season was still better than KC’s (and, he did start as a rookie and improved his second year, so he’s not a good analogy. My sample is someone who had 0 NFL starts as a rookie), but, then, he was Montana’s back up for a long time and wasn’t STEVE YOUNG HALL OF FAMER until he was 30. His career is in the Plunkett, Gannon, Vinny T. etc. mold. He wasn’t ready, then found NFL success later in his career.
Question, would Young have been a Hall of Famer in any other system? His skill set was tailor-made for Bill Walsh’s West Coast offense. And, playing with Jerry Rice in his prime would make a lot of QBs great. Young’s experience is so unique, leaving a bad team, then sitting behind a legend for 4 years while learning the greatest offensive system of all time from the greatest offensive mind of all time with the greatest WR of all time, that I don’t think his career can serve as a comparable for anyone. He was a lucky dude!
Sack-I mean no disrespect and personally want the team to draft a QB, but if Aliens monitor our activity on this planet (example. I’m not totally crazy) even they know how much you hate the guy.
Steve Young, in his first four seasons, was barely over 50% completions and it wasn’t until his 5th year that he completed over 60% of his passes.
He is listed as 6′2″ as well so not a huge strapping big armed QB.
Sack sometimes I believe you are blinded by your own hate.
You still make me laugh though.
And for what it’s worth I don’t think anyone would ever doubt your desire for the Jets to win. Your opinions aside you are clearly passionate about that.
JAGG,
KC came onto the Jets as a possible rookie starter and a cornerstone pick of a first-year coach. He didn’t come in as training camp fodder and have to work his way up to QB2, like Cassell or Romo. He has no chips on his shoulder, just a monkey on his back because of past failure.
Look, I am not going to stop pointing out that predicting KC will be a bona fide NFL starter has no foundation in fact, statistics, your Ouija board or anything else. seanmac just throws out his 2007, but on a game by game basis, KC faced some tough teams and easy teams and played poorly overall. That’s why I set forth the stats on Campbell. On a similarly bad team, Campbell had 4 decent games (with a QBR over 80). KC had 1 good game, against the 1-15 Dolphins!
I hope KC succeeds and becomes the second All-Pro QB in NYJ history. But, he hasn’t seized the opportunity (as seanmac points out both Mangini and now Ryan haven’t been exactly content with him as a starter…if that were the case, there would be no rumors and the Jets wouldn’t have been in the Cutler derby) and there is NOTHING in his short NFL career that shows he will be even an average NFL QB.
You’re just a KC apologist. There’s more reasons why KC will fail than succeed, so why continue with him? Oh, and I’ve been consistently against KC since the Browns game in ‘07…I want him off the Jets.
RKNYC,
If you’ve read my posts, I’ve always cited one exception to my over 6-2 rule…the West Coast offense. Shorter guys are more mobile, and the West Coast thrives on a mobile QB throwing short to intermediate routes. Almost EVERY West Coast QB is 6-2..Montana, Young, McNabb, Garcia, Favre. Heck, the only thing I was blind to was believing that Favre could exist in a non-West Coast system!!! So, bashing me for Young is off-base, I have ALWAYS excepted West Coast QBs from my rule.
I get what the front office thinks and I see what you’re saying. I’m just sick of it. I think he has a chip. I’d have a chip. I think a lot of people would. “KC came onto the Jets as a possible rookie starter and a cornerstone pick of a first-year coach.” He isn’t that now. I think he should just compete. 8 starts 2 years ago is not enough for me to condemn anyone. That may be just me tho.
Like I have said I wanted Cutler and I like Sanchez, but it all comes down to cost.
Bashing is kinda harsh. I am not the only one to say you hate KC. It’s not like you deny it either. And I only pointed out Young as an example of any QB who needs time and sucks at the start of their career. I also include Manning who played on a bad team his rookie year too. There are many more successes, and I know there are also exponentially more failures than successes at QB.
I am only saying, and yes thinking about it I remember your West Coast exception it is just not easy to remember back 4 years of who posted what, that is this instance you just don’t seem able to give KC a fair shake and call people that feel 8 games on a terrible team “KC apologists.” If anyone is bashing it is you.
I don’t think pointing out facts is apologizing any more than you feel your facts are apologizing.
RKNYC,
Look, I’ve gone back and forth on this over 1,000 times since the Browns game in 2007. I don’t think comparing Clemens to Manning is valid. That’s not KC’s comparable, because both Mannings started as rookies. Look at guys who didn’t start as rookies, but then started in their second year. That’s KC’s peer group and I was surprised that most of those guys didn’t stink, except for JP Losman. Doesn’t mean that KC won’t become a franchise QB, but the deck is stacked against him and, on top of everything else, the fact that he’s under 6-2 doesn’t help. So, everyone knows I don’t want KC on the Jets, but hate? I don’t hate KC, I just don’t want to see him in 2010 on the Jets after I’ve plunked down thousands of dollars of my hard-earned cash on PSLs.
Hate wasn’t meant literally more in the sense of “hating on” but I understand you taking that as a stab at you.
At least you are consistent.
And you also take it literally that Manning is a comparison when it is more of an example. Clearly nobody thinks KC is Peyton, being uber-critical of any QB with so little a body of work is the comparison. I am comparing the unknown quantities of their futures, at the time Manning or Young or anyone, presently Clemens, and the reason to let KC get a fair shake with a decent team.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t rather have a dozen QBs over Clemens to start this season I’m saying he’s only played 8 games. I didn’t love everything that I saw from him but there were things to like. He won games. He may be able to win more than you think. He may stink it up. You consider camps to be as important as real game experience? Really?
Practice? We’re talking about practice? It’s practice! Practice?
I know you didn’t say that exactly but it seemed to sound that way.
RKNYC,
I think that signing a QB after the draft and getting him to study the playbook and out there in drills as quickly as possible is CRUCIAL to a QB’s development. While the QB wears the red jersey, the other players are in full contact. So, KC or Ratty get to throw to Jericho with Revis covering him. The speed of the NFL is something every rookie has to get used to, especially QB. There’s also pre-season, which adds the factor of facing the possibility of being hit faster and harder than you’ve ever been hit before. Then, seeing NFL games from the inside, going over the film, seeing what a guy like Montana or Kurt Warner does in game situations is invaluable. If practice weren’t important, why would guys who have sat a couple of years usually performed so well? And, generally, better than QBs that start as rookies?
Practice makes perfect!
And, I forgot running the scout team for the defense…this year passing against Lito, Revis, Rhodes and Leonhard, that’s tougher than virtually every other NFL team’s secondary. March down on those guys in practice with the B team and you are well on your way to performing on Sundays.
In this offense, I truthfully cannot see the advantage that Jason Campbell would provide over Kellen Clemens.
Bottom line is QB’s don’t win championships- teams do. And although we have had some recent higher draft successes, we still are trying to overcome 2006- a disaster in which only one player remains, nobody after Harris and Revis in ‘07 and to this point, only Keller in ‘08 (I’m a fan of Lowery but where does he provide value in this defense?).
Sure, we’ve had some ok FA signings but folks, those are band aids. That is not what builds you as a team and overall, as an organization.
So- for the 6 picks slated right now, the number one priority should be; GET MORE PICKS!
Not trade them for the Brady Quinns, or Jason Campbells of the world. And certainly not move up and draft a Qb who has only 1 yr starting in college.
After we hopefully stock up a few more picks, then go and fill the holes at the playmaking and trench positions.
For now and the future, this team is in dying need at WR, RB, TE, OL and DL. They must address each one at least once!!
Then, we have a highly regarded FA Qb and a 2nd Rd from only 3 yrs ago who we need to give a fair shot.
My friend, if you want to complain about your PSL money- it was your choice to write the check. And I complain at times as well but these types of complaints are childish and exactly the reason the Jets are what they are.
Woody Johnson brought in Brett Favre for the exact reason of appealing to the PSL money…look how that turned out.
Let’s grow up as fans. That doesn’t mean support the team blindly because I certainly do not do that. But have some faith that we may have the QB on our roster now and let’s hope the FO office uses common sense to build this roster wisely!
Because although as good as Rhodes, Revis, Harris, Mangold may be- with some of the slots we’ve had recently- we need to show much much more out of our drafts in the last 4 years. And the time to start is Saturday. And the way to start is certainly not jumping after some rookie Qb, or someone else’s retreads…
Chris,
The overwhelming majority of Super Bowl winning QBs are either in the Hall of Fame, will be in the Hall of Fame or were Pro Bowlers. The exception were QBs on teams with historically great defenses (and a lot of those teams had pretty good QBs) or, with the Joe Gibbs Redskins of the 80s, the best OL in NFL history. For my PSL money, I want an above-average QB because that gives the Jets the best chance of winning a Super Bowl. Campbell is a better QB than KC and his career arc (this would be his 4th year as a starter) shows that he is improving every year (last season he didn’t throw an INT for his first 8 games and, then, his OL imploded). I don’t see how anyone doesn’t believe that Campbell would be a significant upgrade over KC. He’s taller, just as mobile and has a better arm. Let’s stop putting on rose-colored glasses as fans and recognize that the Jets have a problem at QB.
Chris I agree with most of your posts they are well thought out and written.
In the case of Qbs though they may are the exception because they may lose games for you and lose a SB for you. So while I think Clemens may be better than he gets credit for I wouldn’t want him in there if he shows that he throws INTs at crucial times.
And I haven’t seen Campbell collapse under pressure (going on my memory). So he may well be a better option than Clemens.
That doesn’t mean I’d use picks for him. I would have said to go after Cutler at such similar costs.
I think we need picks too. I feel the same way about the Knicks. If you are going to stink, speaking about the Knicks here not the Jets, you should at least have picks. Then you have to make them count.
The Jets need many picks, to keep the salary cap low too, and they need them to play. Way more if they want to be good year after year.
Campbell not throwing INTs for 8 games is overrated. 13 TDs is horrible for 16 games from a 4th year player with his weapons. He can’t throw on the run and looks lost. I’d rather have the short KC than give up a draft pick for that loser. His improvement over the last few years is slower than molasses. I know we have a QB problem, but Campbell is not the answer.
People don’t know as much about Clemens as they think they do, because he’s had very little chance so far. He went 3-5 (better than Chad) as the starter and had bad stats in his first 8 games. Lots of QBs have a bad first half season and then put it all together. Not saying Clemens will, but that it’s getting a little pompous “knowing” that he’ll never be elite, because we haven’t seen much.
After Campbell’s 3 seasons, I see no reason to believe he’ll ever be elite. I’d rather give the guys we have a chance and whether it’s Ratty, Clemens or even Ainge, let the best QB start. Campbell would be a bandaid. If we end up having to improve upon the 3 we have (next year), it better be someone better than Campbell.
Ssshhhh…don’t let KC or Ratliff find out that the Jets may be considering another QB, otherwise they might pull a “Cutler” on us….
heh-heh
JAGG,
I think Campbell is better than you do and I think he’s much better than KC. Is he an “elite” QB? Right now, no. Would he be the best QB on the Jets? Yes. Would he give the Jets a viable alternative at QB? Yes. Would he cost a lot? No.
NYCParkingExpert,
Not very many second-year QBs starting in the NFL for the first time have a bad 8 games, like KC did. I found one, JP Losman. Remember, KC wasn’t just bad, he was awful. And, those 3 wins could have been won by Ratty or B. Smith or any QB. Clemens did nothing to win those 3 games besides show up and play generally sub-standard football.
KC may become elite in 4 or 5 years. He may go to Canada, win a couple of Grey Cups, get signed by a team at 30 and have a good career. I just don’t think he will be “elite” or even average in 2009 and I guess it’s “pompous” to express that opinion.
Guys.
I’m not saying you can win without a solid- great Qb. If my point was misconstrued, my apologies for not laying it out correctly.
I just wanted to say that it is not the other factor towards being a great team and more importantly, a great franchise.
We can make assumptions, possibly correct that we currently don’t have a QB. But saying that Sanchez, or Campbell, or Freeman, or whoever can be a succesful QB and win here is also an assumption. With that said, why risk the development of our other areas when no matter what, 2009 is somewhat questionable and will without a doubt be a year of learning?
As great as many winning QB’s, I think if you look at their supporting cast, they had equally great Rb’s, WR’s, Defenses,etc. Because they were a team. And folks- that is what we need to build here.
I don’t think you have seen Campbell play if you think he is a good QB. Better than KC? maybe. Worth a 4th round pick? Probably not we would be his 4th system in 4 years and he hasn’t been good or shown improvement over the course of the year in any of them. If he is worth your PSL money I have a bridge to sell you.
Chris- I think we have built a pretty solid team. We need OL depth and an RT/LG to groom, a WR, a capable blocking TE, and D line depth. We could go far in fulfilling those needs with this draft. If Chicago can win with Rex Grossman we can win with Ratty or KC.
Also- if you asked me Campbell vs Clemens, all things equal…I’d say Campbell.
But that isn’t the argument here. We’re talking about a new player into a new system for him.
We’re talking potentially a 3rd-4th rd pick when we have only 6.
Not, I’m not sayin that pick should, or could yield a Leon, Lowery, Rhodes type of player; but in this draft (One of the perceived deepest in the last 10 yrs), I honestly am hoping, if not expecting our top 4 picks to have some impact in 2009.
So, if you ask me Campbell vs Clemens and a potential contributor…the answer is definitively NO.
JAGG,
I don’t know if Campbell is worth my PSL money, but I know KC isn’t. Look, Campbell tailed off last season and fell out of favor in Washington. He’s not a sure thing and, if you recall, I wanted the Jets to sign Leftwich for a stopgap in case KC or Ratty didn’t pan out. I think he has more talent and better measurables than KC. For a 4th rounder? I’d do that in a heartbeat, as long as his agent didn’t expect him to be re-signed at an outrageous contract. I’d rather have Campbell than Brady Quinn! I’m also very afraid that we’ll see a good team in ‘09 hampered by poor QB play. As Campbell’s first 8 games last year showed, at least he can be competent without making mistakes.
Green. We definitely have a foundation, I agree.
But….
We need a TON of help on each line. Not just from the starter perspective but we need depth on the Oline and need some more bodies on the Dline. With Jenk especially, we need a better rotation.
And I am right with ya. Let’s ride ‘09 with whoever wins camp. We aren’t that far away but trading picks and leveraging hope on one player I think is the wrong move.
I think we address big RB, Tall Wr, OL, DL and blocking TE in this draft- we will have done a great job.
I’m not in total disagreement with you, but Campbell has shown me nothing. I thought he was a decent prospect. I was wrong. I was all for Leftwich. I’m not convinced Campbell would beat KC in a competition. Campbell is not the answer. We need a QB, but I still would feel me have no QB with Campbell. He was bad before the end of last season too and had a tendency to lay an egg. I’d take KC. Hands down.
Sack- His first 8 games he didn’t throw a pick, but if you watched him against the Gmen in the opener you’d know he is not even competent. That makes 7 games and he showed he couldn’t make plays when they needed him to. At least KC showed a good two minute drill.
Sack – I never said you were pompous. I guess you saw yourself in my comments, though. I agree with JAGG that Campbell over KC (or Ratty) is no sure thing. KC had a bad 2nd half of the year (his 8 games) and won 3 games. For you to discount who the QB was during those wins is ludicrous. Chad won one game – I guess his just showing up and playing sub-par QB wasn’t enough, but with KC it was? Revisionist history. The record is what the record is.
Look do I think KC will be elite? No clue. Do I care if he wins the starting job over Ratty? Couldn’t care less. I just thinking passing supreme judgment on a guy we’ve barely seen is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. If he’s as much of a bust as you say, that will come out in training camp. But signing a never-will-be likely Campbell to replace a QB we’ve hardly seen makes no sense to me. If KC and the QB position is such a problem that we need to bring in an upgrade, then it better not be a lateral or even arguably slight upgrade kind of move.
NYCParking,
Chad beat Miami, I think he would’ve done it again and I’m pretty sure he would’ve beaten the Chiefs. I guess it’s arguable as to whether he would’ve beaten the Steelers because the flea flicker was KC’s big play (even if he underthrew it). So, it’s not ludicrous and, fwiw, Chad played reasonably well in the losses to the Pats and Titans. So, I think it’s “ludicrous” to believe that Chad couldn’t have beaten the woeful Chiefs or Fins.
As for “pompous,” I’ll note that I always say that I don’t believe KC will ever pan out…I just don’t think it’s “pompous” for me or anyone else to express that opinion. In fact, the statistics and KC’s short stature might bear out that conclusion.
Chad in that Titans game was 11 for 13 at one point with 2ints. I think those are bad stats. Wanted to throw that in.
Sack – and for the second time – i never said you were pompous. As much of a shock as it may be to you, you are not the only poster at TJB who proclaims to know who will (admit it, you usually write “never will” , not ” I don’t believe” ) and won’t succeed at any given position.
As for Chad beating the chiefs and fins, nice to think so, but I did see the team lose to some teams they should have beat with Chad at QB. It’s curious to me how you pick the stats you want to make you’re argument. KC’s winning record wasn’t that bad. That is a stat. But wins? Who cares about those? Do they actually tell us anything? But a stat like “most 2nd year QBs usually have better first 8 game stats”, now THERE’S a stat to hang your hat on. I wonder if they also came into the season halfway thru, under controversy, with one of the starting WRs injured (Coles), with a swiss cheese Oline and a mostly sorry defense. If anyone could fine that scenario happening to another NFL QB, it would be you (compliment).
It’s funny, because I am emphatically not pro-KC, I am simple anti bashing a guy unmercifully who hasn’t had a real chance. Let him get beat by Ratty in training camp if he sucks that much.
your argument, not you’re argument
Bent,
If you are willing to go back in time, JIM PLUNKETT is the man you are looking for. Stunk his second year, and much of his first decade, before ascending to franchise quarterback and Super Bowl MVP.
Had a great post season record too.
Clemens was just not ready in 2007, and his Oline didn’t help him out. He was litterally learning on the run. Rodgers might very well have had the same fate if forced into action in year 2.
Keep the faith for one more year and hope he doesn’t take as long as Plunkett to prove his worth.
The “Clemens just wins” argument is ludicrous. Yes, he won two more games than Chad. But when Chad was playing, the defense was performing at a historically bad level. They pulled it together and started playing much better at right around the time that Clemens was put in as the starter. The Jets passing offense performed well when Chad was in, but the rest of the team was in shambles. The rest of the team rounded into form at the midway point of the season, but the passing game went south with Clemens.
Again, I’m reasonably willing to let Clemens get one more shot at the starting job, but I just can’t abide the “He went 3-5, therefore…” line of reasoning. He wasn’t close to being as good as Chad in 2007, and he likely won’t be as good as Chad next year. But we’ll see.