Focus: Meet Your New Starting DE…Probably
When the Jets signed Marques Douglas to a one-year deal for the veteran’s minimum in March, it was a move that received little fanfare. However, with the trade of Kenyon Coleman last week end, the 32 year old veteran arguably now sits atop the depth chart at the DE position.
Seeking some more detail about Douglas, who was a reserve for Rex Ryan’s Ravens defense last year and had started 78 out of 80 games for the Ravens and 49ers over the previous five seasons, I e-mailed my friend, Sam, a 49ers fan (whose opinion I trust) for his unbiased opinion:
Marques Douglas was good for us as a 3-4 end. He is very good against the run and holding up at the point, but offers virtually nothing in terms of pass rush. He is a bit undersized but makes up for it in hustle and hand fighting.
I would have liked to have seen him kept as depth when he signed for Tampa, but at that point he wanted to be a starter.
The part in bold is my emphasis – doesn’t it sound somewhat familiar? Essentially, Sam has described a smaller, more dynamic, version of Kenyon Coleman, which sounds like it would be a better fit for Ryan and Pettine’s flexible, attacking, defense.
On the other hand, if the 49ers only wanted to keep him for depth, then can he really be counted on to start for what we all hope will develop into an elite defense? When he joined Tampa (a 4-3 team), he signed a four year deal, but was eventually traded back to the Ravens for a draft pick, just a few months later.
Speculating somewhat, I would consider that Douglas, although the most experienced option at that position and the de facto “starter” at this time will probably be part of a rotation as the Jets look set to run a scheme with as much versatility as possible. The buzz over the weekend was that the Jets are also high on Mike Devito, who they may be keen to promote, or they may yet be able to dip into the free agent market to pick up a higher profile name.
Until they do, though, Douglas appears to be your starter for the time being. He was still relatively productive statistically despite coming off the bench for the Ravens last year and I was impressed with his performances in the Baltimore games I watched. Also, as TheJetsFan24’s recent TJB article investigated, has actually been among the more productive players in the league when given playing time.
Looking back at when Douglas first joined the 49ers, he was specifically brought in to aid the conversion to a 3-4 scheme and led the league in tackles behind the line of scrimmage. Although the 49ers were not successful in that period, Douglas is obviously a player that exhibits leadership and sounds like an ideal candidate to assist Rex Ryan in implementing his 3.5/3.5 scheme with the Jets.
Let’s have your thoughts on Douglas – Have you seen him play? Is he good enough? What are the other options?
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well if he’s the starter he’s the starter. Rex believes in him and we really dont have anyone at the position that is more capable to start over him yet so we all might as well support him until otherwise
Don’t be surprised if they try to get Gholston working from that spot…
Devito got good palying time last year and is good against the run. Definitely a very active 3 man rottation.
Or maybe an undrafted FA could contribute although id doubt that immediately.
Will Pace play behind him?
Bent
Off topic I heard eric ainge is back on the team did you get any info?
Guys I read a few articles a couple of weeks back saying that rex is very high on Devito and thinks he fits his schme better so if coleman was still on the team I thinkl he would of been a backup anyway.
well im not the coach but i know they probably wont go into the season starting devito OR douglas.. shaun ellis isnt immortal he’ll need a breather and when we go with a four man front on obvious running situations we could have jinx, ellis, devito, douglas… gholston would get ran over if he played end,, hes a hybrid but not like orakpo whos 320.. WHO ELSE WOULD WE SIGN?? WHOS OUT THERE?
Douglas has been real solid for several years, sometimes even spectacular. B. Scott said that he was the second leading tfl lineman in the last 3 years (or so).
He is at an age where he is no longer able to supply starters time with the high intensity that makes him the force he is. So a starter at DE and M. Douglas as third man in, would make us much stronger an keep the old linemen fresher. Don’t forget you have 3 old men at tackle along side, and one needs breaks, for he is the heart of the defense.
Gholston would likely only play DE if there are two tackles along side him in 4-3 sets or hybrids.
Rich,
The DE’s aren’t out there now, but plenty of teams are in cap hell right now with no room to sign draftees.
The June cuts will see others fall out.
If Tanny is a patient gambler, he will hold on to those cap dollars for fire sale days and swoop in. To me, DE is more critical to this years team thatnWR.
Jets obviously went for quality over quantity in draft- opposite of Bellicheat school of drafting. That said, they have multiple holes to fill. WR, TE and defensive line stand out. They may not be looking at this as a one year process. If Sanchez is to start, realistically we may be looking at a developmental season.
Trading that chump Coleman was a cap move. He was too expensive. THis guy is a cheaper version, and besides that, they will platoon him with DeVito. DeVito can become a great 3-4 DE. He has nice moves and good power down low.
Its a ok OLD D line could be above average with REX scheme but as season goes will continue to get worse. Only if we can get Peppers somehow.
I’ve lived in Baltimore for the past 9 years and seen a lot of Douglas, and I was thrilled when we picked him up for so little. He’s a bit under-sized, but he compensates for it with his quickness, nonstop energy, and a great feel for the game. In BAL, Rex would line him up at the 5-technique, but also further inside on the line at times, and Douglas never seemed out of position. He struggles with huge OT’s, but I think he’ll be just fine against most opponents.
I think we will see a lot of Gholston this year as a 3rd down DE. If he only has to worry about what’s in front of him he can be an effective player. Ryan will take advantage of his best attribute which is penetration. Forget about him as an OLB this year. This will add to the DE rotation and allow Douglas to stay fresh. Devito has been very active when he had a chance to play last year and should see significant improvement this year. I would be comfortable going into the season with what we have. We’re not going to see a huge upgrade hit the FA market.
Julius peppers doesnt have the size ad power to play DE in a 3-4, better suited for a pass-rushing OLB. Besides he wants to play for the Pats.
Mike Petitte said on Sirius yesterday that VG will line up at DE at times when they go to 4 down lineman….He also said that M Douglas is much better than anyone thinks!!
At the very least he’s no worse then Coleman, and a lot cheaper, so just for the fact that we cleared up some cap room makes it worth while.
Can someone explain this too me! We trade Coleman and he is still counting for $4mil on our cap!
From NYJETSCAP.COM:
The New York Jets traded DE Kenyon Coleman to the Cleveland Browns on April 25, 2009. Coleman had 3 years remaining on a 5 year 20.5 million dollar contract he signed in 2007. Coleman received a 4.5 million dollar signing bonus in 2007 and another bonus of $1,402,353 om 2008. Prior to the trade Coleman received a $250,000 roster bonus and workout payments in 2009. Coleman will count for $4,066,051 in dead money.
Brad, when you originally sign, your signing bonus is spread over the life on the contract (ie one-fifth each year). If you are traded or cut before the end of that contract, then the remaining balance of that bonus is accelerated into that year’s cap.
So, KC had a signing bonus of (say) 7m, which has only counted as about 1.5m per year in each year on the contract. So, year one and two the cap hit was 1.5m but in year three, there are three years left and therefore a 4m cap hit or (since he is gone) “dead money”.
At the same time, the Jets don’t have to pay him his salary/other bonuses for the year, which was a saving of about $4.7m. Overall, they therefore make a net cap saving of 700k by cutting him.
Thanks for clarifying that for me Bent!
Hey Bent, is that cap hit this year or will it count as dead money for next year?
This year.
My problem isnt with Douglas I am sure he will be alright but I have problem with his age. Even if he is good he cant sustain it for entire season
I’m glad TannyVision agrees with my view that DL is a much more pressing need than WR. Would rather be too young than too old.
Nice article, Bent. One thing confuses me: you wrote “…Douglas, who was a reserve for Rex Ryan’s Ravens defense last year and had started 78 out of 80 games for the Ravens and 49ers over the previous five seasons…”. He was a reserve but started all but 2 games in 5 years? Am I missing something?
Thanks
NYC – I’m sure I could have worded that better. If I add to it:
“he was a reserve for Rex Ryan’s Ravens defense last year (ie 2008) and HAD started 78 out of 80 games for the Ravens and 49ers over the PREVIOUS five seasons (ie 2003-2007 inclusive)…”
Hopefully, that explains the situation better. He was with Baltimore for 2003 and 2004 and SF from 2005-2007, before returning to Baltimore in a reserve role.
Seems obvious to me, that Douglas will be part of a rotation, which will include Gholston. I tend to doubt we’ll be seeing much of VG in space, at least at first, so I’m not concerned about Douglas not being a pressure guy.
It’ll be fun to see what Rex/Pettine come up with.
We have 3-4 players in a 3-4 scheme. We WILL NOT win games in the defensive battle if we use specfic schemes (i.e stunts, blitzes, etc) all the time. Yes the Steelers and Chargers use these schemes but at certain times of the games AFTER they have executed their 3-4 BASE game plan. We must win the war of the trenches straight forward rather to rely to specific schemes that tend to our opponents weaknesses or to create confusion. This is why I am terribly dissapointed in tannenbaum who trade coleman our starting DE and elam our starting safety for sanchez. Who is going to replace them? I don’t think Leonhard is as physical as Elam and Douglas is nowhere near Coleman as far as his contributions to stopping the run and lost of yards when running on his side for the jets. We needed to address this issue in the draft however by filling in one hole that we needed to cover with an unknown variable (Sanchez) and removing patches from two areas (Coleman and Elam) results in a loss. Trust me the defense is going to feel it this year. It starts with Jenkins. Harris can only help him so much and I don’t think Ellis can duplicate his success last year again this year. Once the defensive line falls apart the DEFENSE falls apart. I don’t care if you have 11 gholstons Scotts, or Paces’, out there flying all over the place you need to take care of the dirty work up front.
fonzie,
You just seem to love assuming the worst.
I’ve no idea if Elam is more physical than Leonhard, as I never watched the few Baltimore games I’ve seen with an eye towards evaluating him. But I did see Elam get crisped on a regular basis. The only good thing I can say about Elam is he has some upside.
As to Coleman, he’s an aging run stopper with a large contract. No pass rush and no upside, I find it hard to believe that Marshal could be worse, and he’s certainly cheaper.
I think what this is really about is your dislike of the Sanchez pick, and a need to portray it in the worst possible light.
As I’ve said before if they’re right about Sanchez he’s well worth the price, and if they’re wrong about him it was well worth the shot.
If you THINK there’s a franchise QB out there you go for it.
Jimmy Leonhard doesnt blindside people the way Elam does, but Elam is not anywhere close the athlete that Leonhard is. Leonhard is a better all around fit for Rex’s D. Baltimore safeties are used in coverage i.e Ed Reed than the Mangina/ New England Rodney Harrison close to the line of scrimage run support.
I think that Fonzie needs to relax and let our boy Rex decide what he needs to have in order to make his defense run, hes only been damn near the best at running one for the past 10 years. Kenyon Coleman and Abe Elam never won a playoff game in both there tenures. Relax, we didnt give up Bruce Smith and Ronnie Lott.
On Marques Douglas, since getting Sunday ticket Ive seen him play a handful of times. Wont wow you, but he has a great motor, is a decent tackler and hitter, he is the kind of guy that doesnt have a problem eating blocks to let the superstars clean up the tackles. He is the typical Baltimore Raven guy you’ve never heard of but just brings a nasty, hardhat attitude to work. He cant rush the passer and only gets coverage and garbage sacks. He was only and will only be asked to play on running downs, which he can do very well. He is for lack of a better word, Kenyon Coleman
[...] — For more on the topic, see Bent’s analysis here. The Niners traded him because they didn’t think he would start in 2008, the Ravens then [...]