Link: Woody Willing To Spend
Considering in the post just before we discussed how Rex isn’t just looking to spend money for talen’t sake and rather looking for this fit, it should be understood that Jets owner Woody Johnson isn’t afraid to spend the bucks. Or make a splash to sell his tickets.
Over the past 14 months, from the Alan Faneca signing to the Brett Favre trade to the Mark Sanchez selection, Johnson has signed off on some of the biggest, most aggressive moves in the NFL. The Sanchez blockbuster, which saw the Jets trade up 12 spots last weekend for the junior quarterback, will cost an additional $20million in guarantees – the approximate difference between the fifth and 17th selections. Johnson, who didn’t blink, seems to be channeling his inner Steinbrenner:
Win now, avoid rebuilding.
It’s an interesting philosophy. Not quite Snyder-esque, but definitely further along than some of the cheaper or less-spending teams in the league. Obviously the Favre gamble didn’t work out the way we hoped but he still probably gained the Jets a couple of wins and notoriety they didn’t have and probably wouldn’t have had before. Faneca was possibly the lynchpin to last season’s uptick in success and well, Sanchez is Sanchez. So, Jets fans, are you worried about Woody possibly falling into a belief that he can “buy titles” or do you think he can continue to stradle the line between thrifty and indulgent?
139 Responses to Link: Woody Willing To Spend
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Crom says:
I like having an owner who wants to win regardless of what his motivation is.
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I know Woody gets a bad rap especially since the PSL’s but he has has been a good owner for us. He dosent stick his nose into reall football business and appears to be doing all he can to put a winning team on the field…
Lets also not forget that he and Bob Kraft had a huge part in the unions making a deal a few years ago….The guy is a top notch business man and has done a lot better job than most (including Jet fans) give him credit for
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JerryB says:
Nothing wrong with spending big bucks if they are spent on the right players. I only can hope that the personnel decisions are based on winning and not on selling tickets.
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Chris says:
I agree that there is nothing wrong with spending the money and with our market, ticket prices, etc- it is really necessary that the team do so. That being said, I am afraid he is entering the land of Daniel Snyder.
For young guys, etc- it is ok to bring on some heavy contracts but I’m not exactly sure we’re rebuidling by adding 30 yr old+ on the o-line, mortgaging the future possibly by trading up for questionable talent and overpaying for some more popular FA names (Sorry Calvin Pace and maybe Bart Scott).
All that doesn’t even include the Favre love affair.
It’s nice to have a news worthy team and I do understand the need to run this as a ‘business’ but I am sorry to think that this ownership and front office lacks serious football intelect…
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Brett Justin says:
I like what woody has done all the moves hes made have been beneficial for our team and organizaiton its not like the redskins who over pay for everything and every player and still never works out….
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Brett.
I agree we aren’t in Redskin land…yet
That being said- has there been a FA acquisition that we can say truly worked??
I mean Faneca is a very nice player but at his salary- he really needs to be more of a complete lineman. How will he and Woody do when Sanchez drops back? If he’s on his back 40+ times on sacks this yr, no matter what kind of offense we run, it’ll be an issue.
I would also say at his number, Pace is not nearly what he should be. Jenkins was a nice player (trade) but if he continues to detoriarate, you’d need to question was he worth the 2 picks.
Will Bart Scott support his huge contract?
Favre was clearly a mistake, not because they missed the playoffs but it was clear he was a one yr rental…
At the end of the day, money, performance, etc- all things considered- Richardson is probably the best signing and the only one I would say is truly worth it.
The lack to bring in more playmakers at WR and DE has also been a huge hole and I think despite some success with players from the draft- Revis, Harris, Leon, etc- the drafts have been very shallow and perhaps they’ve underachieved as a hole based on how high some of the selections they have had.
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Organized Chaos says:
Hey, I have no idea if all the moves Woody is making is with the intentions of selling PSLs. However, if that means bringing in the guys to do it, go get it. This guy wants to win. Tanny and Woody have the guts to make the splashes and frankly I respect and condone such behavior.
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JesusRevis says:
With so many small market teams in professonal sports refusing to spend money I for one am very thankful to have an owner that is willing to open his wallet. Given we are not in a small market, it’s still something to be thankful for. The tandem of Woody Johnson and Mike Tannenbaum have an exceptional track record in the draft, free agency and in trades. No major disapointments, plus drafting players like Ferguson, Mangold, Washington, Revis, Harris, Keller, Greene and Sanchez. Gholston appears to be the only disapointment thus far but there is still hope.
The trades have been impressive as well, Thomas Jones, Kris Jenkins and even the Favre trade didnt really hurt us. Plus the trades made in the draft look like steals; trading up for Revis and the trade up for Sanchez. All of the free agent acquisitions were a success as well.
Be optimistic Jet fans, this isn’t your fathers new york jets.
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Pete F says:
You can’t buy titles in the NFL….that little thing called the salary cap precludes it.
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Chris, your way off
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Jesus. There are probably only 3-4 opinions I respect on this site and yours is definitely one of them, despite the fact that we rarely, if ever, agree.
That being said, any thoughts to why I’m off? Does the record show for anything?
What makes me think they have the made the right moves and this will translate into a Title, or at least a deep playoff run?
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If you want to question Tannenbaums work in the draft, it’s only fair to recognize that he is averaging 1 pro bowler per draft. His trades (Favre, Thomas Jones, Kris Jenkins) all netted pro bowlers! Facts are facts and it is pretty hard to dispute that Tannenbaum has done a fantastic job.
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Jesus.
The TJ trade has been essentially equal and I only say that because of the time he will stay with the Jets (3 yrs). He also had a very subpar ’07 which followed up by a very strong ’08 has made it more attractive. But he hasn’t been spectacular enough to make me think we stole him.
I’d the same for Jenkins. How long will he actually contribute? And he clearly can’t stay on the field very long…does he remain on the team after this year??
D-Brick has been a disappointment for the 4th overall pick. I’m sorry, he just has. He’s a nice player but nothing you can’t get in later rounds.
Keller, for me, has not yet shown he was worthy of trading back into the 1st Rd for him. Not a complete TE and he had a flash for a handful of games. Not enough there yet.
Sanchez and Greene to be determined obviously.
Gholston to this point, huge bust.
Harris is a nice player but again, like Keller- he was a pretty high pick and cost the Jets some, I think he needs to stay healthy and continue to produce before he clearly cements that value.
Washington, Revis and Mangold were clearly good choices. But two of them were 1st rounders and should be starters, not sure we need to pat the FO on the back for doing their jobs. And again, to identify 3 very strong starters over the course of 3-4 drafts, I think is disappointing. Now, if Ferguson continues to develop, Harris stays healthy and Keller becomes a real threat- then it makes it better but still overall, very shallow draft classes.
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Chris,
I appreciate your respect, but I think it is pretty difficult to argue against what Tannenbaum has done. The trade for Favre can clearly be viewed as a disapointment, but that doesnt mean it was the wrong move at the time it was made. Tannenbaums track record as far as trades is phenomenal. Swapping second round picks with Chicago for Thomas Jones was one of the biggest steals I have ever seen. Kris Jenkins for a 3rd and a 5th is a bargain by all means.
The Jets have clearly shown that they value quality ovr quantity in the draft. Trading up for Darrelle Revis was one of the best moves this franchise has ever made. I’d much rather walk away from a draft with 2 studs like Revis and Harris then 4-5 decent to solid players.
When I said you were way off I was only referring to your comment comparing the Jets to the Redskins. For instance, Daniel Snyder has gained his negative reputation for making moves like trading a 2nd round pick for Jason Taylor only to have him play for 1 season. It would be understandable if Washington was a dominant team looking for a player to put them over the top, but that was not the case at all.
Fanaca may be overpaid, but the Jets had an abysmal offensive line and Fanaca was a sure thing, something that the Jets desperately needed. In this league everyone is overpaid, sometimes you need to be willing to spend a little extra or you will wind up with nothing.
As for Calvin Pace, I think he is a great player and the contract was worth it.
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Jesus.
Favre = Gone
TJ = Going going, gone
Jenkins = did nothing for us final 8 games
And for the draft, I’m glad for his 1 good guy each draft. What about our depth. When is the draft where we grab 4-6 starters, or contributors.
What about a Jerry Reese, or New England type, or Parcells type of draft??
Were Kevin Boss, Jay Alford, Aaron Ross, Steve Smith, Michael Johnson, Ahmad Bradshaw Pro Bowlers??? No but guess what, that was one rookie class where they all contributed. Not 1-2 pro bowlers.
If we are judging on pro bowlers only, then the Cowboys would be perennial super bowl champions.
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Chris,
are you sure you understand the TJ trade? The Jets didnt give up a 2nd round pick, they simply swapped picks with Chicago. Sorry but that move was unarguably a steal.
To say we could get a player like D’brickshaw Ferguson in the later rounds is a little naive. He has only played 3 seasons, is still very young and was a pro bowl alternate in his 3rd year. He also is a great pass protector and only allowed 2 sacks last year.
As far as Keller, theres not enough to really say whether or not he was worth trading up for, that can be decided 2-3 years down the road. I personally loved the pick but that is my opinion.
Harris was a 2nd round pick, with 1st round value, the Jets saw this and made the move to trade up. Injuries are a concern, and he does need to stay healthy.
We shouldn’t pat the front office on the back for trading up for Revis? The Jets got one of the top 3 players in the draft at 14. They traded up for a guy who has already become one of the best corners in football, and probably THE best. If we’re not going to give credit for that move then I guess we never will for any move.
You say there are only 3 very strong starters over the course of 3-4 drafts. We cannot count this most recent draft because no one as played yet, so it is 3 drafts. Those 3 drafts have netted us Ferguson, Mangold, Revis, Harris, Washington, which is 5 impact players in 3 drafts. Plus Keller, Lowery, and hopefully Gholston will pan out as well.
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As usual I agree 100% with Jesus Revis
Chris your points…
- Ask the Bears if we stole TJ. To a man they would say Ya!
- Jenkins was stolen for a 3rd/5th is 29 and was dominant for 10 games until wearing down which was expected in a new system for him… The guy has 3 years left at a high level
- As to Brick …go check the other 9 players chosen in the top 10 drafted that year other than M Williams Brick has outplayed every one of them
- Keller outplayed every WR (jet fans) wanted in that draft by a long shot. The guy is a matchup nighmare. They targeted him and it will pay off.
- If Harris stays healthy he is a top 10 MLB in this league. He made more plays in 9 starts than Vilma made in 2 years in this system.Mr T and the Jets have done a really nice job in the draft. They have targeted players instead of compiling (like the Pats have) in the last 4 years
Brick, Mangold, Leon, Revis, Harris, Keller and maybe even Lowery and Clowney…..with Sanchez, Greene are potential conerstones of this team for years….Match that up with the new players we have added the last 2 years……excellent job by Mr T!!
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Chris, you sound like a Giant fan!
I’d take Darrelle Revis over every single player that Jerry Reese drafted in that same draft.
Jenkins did nothing over the last 8 games? That is completely false.
“When is the draft where we grab 4-6 starters, or contributors.”
The Ferguson/Mangold draft would qualify.
-Also, its tough to judge Tannenbaums draft classes considering he has only been the GM for 4 drafts. Let his draft classes develop.
“Were Kevin Boss, Jay Alford, Aaron Ross, Steve Smith, Michael Johnson, Ahmad Bradshaw Pro Bowlers??? No but guess what, that was one rookie class where they all contributed. Not 1-2 pro bowlers.”
-Aaron Ross is terrible
-Jay Alford does not contribute
-Steve Smith is a solid #2 WR (best pick of this draft for the Giants)
-Michael Johnson is an average player at best
-Ahmad Bradshaw is nothing special, at this point he wouldnt make the Jets roster. -
Patriots drafty since 2006…. Horrible beside Mayo!!!!
1 Laurence Maroney 21
2 Chad Jackson (traded with GB) which beame G Jennings
3 David Thomas 86 TE Texas
4a Garrett Mills 106 FB Tulsa
4b Stephen Gostkowski 118 K Memphis
5a Ryan O’Callaghan 136 T California
6a Jeremy Mincey 191 LB Florida
6b Dan Stevenson 205 G Notre Dame
6c Le Kevin Smith 206 DL Nebraska
7 Willie Andrews 229 DB Baylor1 Brandon Meriweather 24 S Miami (Fla.)
4 Kareem Brown 127 DL (our new TE lol)
5 Clint Oldenburg 171 T Colorado State
6a Justin Rogers 180 LB Southern Methodist
6b Mike Richardson 202 CB Notre Dame
6c Justise Hairston 208 RB Central Connecticut 6d Corey Hilliard 208 T Oklahoma State
7 Oscar Lua 211 LB Southern California
7 Mike Elgin1 Jerod Mayo 10 LB
2 Terrence Wheatley 62 CB Colorado
3 Shawn Crable 78 LB Michigan
3 Kevin O’Connell 94 QB San Diego State
4 Jonathan Wilhite 129 CB Auburn
5 Matthew Slater 153 WR UCLA
6 Bo Ruud 197 LB NebraskaLets not overrate the Pats drafting especially since Mr T took over in 2006
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Jesus.
Pace is actually a very dimensional player who I absolutely love. You probably won’t find a bigger advocate for him. But I think the Jets overpaid for him was my point.
As for the trades, right now in terms of long term growth, I don’t know that Jenkins is definitively better than what we gave up. If he were a bit younger and healthier, of course. But the point of drafts is too shore up the next 4-6 years. Not sure that trading for aging players, and/or packaging up picks to move up is the smartest philosophy year over year.
Sure, Revis is a stud. Love him. But we need to do better in late rounds. Would I trade Revis for Aaron Ross, Jay Alford, Kevin Boss and Ahamd Bradshaw? I would trade him to be honest. We need players, that’s what it’s about.
Forget the Favre thing. That’s the smallest of my points because I agreed with the risk…but I don’t agree it was the best choice and perhaps they should’ve been able to read him a little better, He clearly never fit here.
The Jets moved down 26 picks to get TJ. They then used 63 to move up to 47 and get Harris.
So, they gave up 37, 89, 191 for Harris and Jones.
Then 25th, 59th and 164th for Revis.
Now, had they held onto to 25, 37, 59, 89, 164 and 191. Here’s what the could have had for needs. For RB, CB and LB- I put who we have. For other positions, I put who we signed or drafted within the following year.
25. Jon Beason (Harris)
37. Chris Houston (Revis)
59. Jay Alford (Jenkins)
89. Michael Bush (Jones)
164. Deon Anderson (Richardson)
191. Ahmad BradshawNow, I realize I am playing best case scenario and hindsight is 20/20.
My only point is to say, we have had the opportunity at bulding our team via draft depth. We should know better than anyone that late round picks are valuable. We have seen Leon, Rhodes, Lowery and played against Tom Brady and Matt Cassell. Not to mention the array of 2nd and 3rd round picks we have either traded and/or sqaundered.
Our team could have been dramatically different, younger and potentially better. Now, if Sanchez is the real deal, as he develops, we will undoudbtedly have a changing of RB, 40% of the offensive line, Fullback and many parts of the defense, especially the line- where it all begins.
So- what are we exactly??
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Drew- you are right, however I referenced that to the earlier years when they won titles!!! How conventiently you forget; Seymour, Warren, Brady (6th!), Wilfork, Watson, Wilson, Johnson, Samuel (4th!), Koppen (5th!), Cain (7th!), Branch, Green, Givens (7th!) among others and not to mention their ability to move around and never spend too much!!!
Revis. Of course he is better than any one player but seriously, how can you discount the impact those guys made, if not for one year! And Bradshaw would easily make our team, christ we talk about Caulcrick…with him potentially we could’ve saved picks from jumping and REACHING on Shonne Greene.
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I did not forget Chris I was using the examples that you and Revis were talking about Mr T. I cant use prior to 2006 against Mr T that was Bradway….
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This is how Pattriots won titles folks…
After Brady in 2000….
2001
Seymour
Light2002
Branch
Green (4th)
Givens (7th)2003
Warren
Wilson
Johnson
Klecko
Samuel (4th)
Koppen (5th)
Cain (7th)2004
Wilfork
Watson2005
Mankins
Hobbs (3rd)
Kaczur (3rd)
Sanders (4th)
Cassel (7th)Folks- for a 5 yr span, they had at least 2 starters, pro bowlers sandwhiched around monster drafts in 2003 and 2005. They never once squandered a 1st Rd pick, let alone had even a questionable one.
We dont get deep drafts like this! We trade for older players and continue to draft up. Ok, we get guys like Revis but thats it!!!
Folks- discount it all you want but the teams that win do it via the drafts with smart moves mixed in. Rarely do those smart moves include trading multiple, or high round picks for players and/or signing aging guys.
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By the way Chris …..Calvin Pace received the same exact contract from Bill Parcells and the Maimi Dolphins. You just chose to play for us thinking he had a better shot to win….look it up
You can use Parcells as your example and then kill the Jets for overpaying him for the same money
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Chris,
the fact that you substituted Kris Jenkins for Jay Alford is mind boggling. So I have nothing else to say
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………
25. Jon Beason (Harris)
37. Chris Houston (Revis)
59. Jay Alford (Jenkins)
89. Michael Bush (Jones)
164. Deon Anderson (Richardson)
191. Ahmad BradshawBesides Beason, those are all HUGE downgrades,
C’mon Chris, that was a little ridiculous
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sackexchange says:
shonne green was a projected 2nd rounder possilbly to the eagles i dont consider him a reach at all
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I have to go so im tyring to stop posting but a few things you said Chris;
I understand how great th Patriots are. You didnt need to waste your own time laying out those drafts. The fact is, all of that was irrelevant because it was before Tannenbaum took over the Jets. Since 2006, the Jets have drafted WAY better than New England.
Bradshaw would not make the team over Jones, Greene, or Washington Chris.
Be back later
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not making much sense of what chris is saying
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TheRealRK says:
As long as Woody is making the player evaluations, then this is nothing but good news, having an owner willing to spend the money on the players and build a winning organization. The only problem with free wheeling owners like Snyder and at times the Steinbrenners is when they start dictating what players they want instead of letting the football/baseball men make the personnel decisions.
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I meant “as long as woody is NOT making the player evaluations
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Drew. I’m not using prior to ’06 drafts to grade Tannenbaum. I just clearly said that the team that win titles do it via the draft. And the Giants of ’07, or the Pats of early-mid ’00′s, they built via draft and had tremendous and consecutive draft classes.
Revis.
Here’s the Jets 2006 draft.
4 Ferguson (Steady player but not worth it here. Worst performing tackle taken top 10 in the last 4 yrs. If Smith and Smith perform well this year, it’ll be out of last 5 yrs). Passed on Sims, Cutler, Davis, Wimbley, Cromartie, Ngata, Holmes, Addai. All other 1st Rounders who have out performed this 4th overall.
29 Mangold. Solid player, position is possible to find later but choice is worthy of selection.
49 Clemens. Clearly, not worth the pick. Will never be an NFL starter, not even given a chance by the team. Taken ahead of Greg Jennings, Devin Hester, Maurice Jones Drew. All 2nd rounders that would’ve filled need and have been All-Pro.
76 Schlegel. Another clear horrible choice.
97. E. Smith. For 3rd Rd choice, bad bad selection.
103. B. Smith. Has contributed enough to warrant 4th Rd choice. Still passed on Brandon Marshall, Barry Cofield and Domenik Hixon in Rd 4.
117. Leon. Steal of draft, well done.
150. Pocsiak. Nuff said. Passed on TE Jeff King, taken 5 picks later and clearly a better pro.
189. Coleman. Not a bad pick so late. Did pass on Bethea though taken 18 picks later.
220. Adams. Nothing expected from 7th rounder but still, not a good pick. Colston was still available. Hofstra kid.
All in all, it was;
Ferguson
Mangold
Leon
B. SmithThat compares nowhere near to the other drafts listed from SB teams. Mostly because Ferguson and Smith haven’t achieved much.
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Chris,
Hindsight is 20/20. It’s ridiculous to look back at drafts and say what players teams should have taken. I guess we should bash every NFL team for passing on Tom Brady. He should have been the #1 overall pick.
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To be clear, I’m not comparing Jets to Patriots after ’06 because that doesn’t matter. My point is to list how the teams who have won titles built their teams.
So, you can disagree, that’s fine. But I guess I have one question then. If this current Jet philosophy is so great- where are the results? When does this team become SUPER?
Assuming, Sanchez doesn’t win in his first 2 yrs, what does this team look like? We don’t have a younger O-Line. Our starting back is aging. How much punishment can Leon endure? Does Harris stay healthy? How long does Bart Scott continue to play at a high level? What does Jenk have in the tank? When does Rhodes production start to fall off? Does Lito Sheppard pan out? When does Cotch get a step slower? Do Clowney, or Stuckey ever emerge? Is Keller a true elite TE? Who replaces Shaun Ellis? Can Caulcrick fill in for T-Rich?
Are these too many questions to fill via the draft?? Do they recur year after year??
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JetsRutgersMets says:
Ouch, yeah not getting Colston kinda stings, now that Im looking back.
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No, Jesus that is not my point. Forget it if you don’t want to see another side.
But where are the results?? If this team has done so well? Why do we still have QB questions? 20% of the team is over 30, including many starters on both lines. We have no elite receiver? It’s now the 2nd coach of this regime. We’ve had some top 10 draft blusters. Some questionable FA moves.
Listen, every GM is going to make good moves. You get high picks, you have a high budget, etc- it’s impossible to miss. But why is this team still mired in confusion after so long??
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The age percentages did not even include Jenkins and Thomas who will both turn 30 before the beginning of the season.
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Harvlis says:
Getting back to Woody and spending money, there are three solid facts.
1. We are in a big market where you can make more money than most other places, by just selling jerseys.
2. Woody knows nothing about football and he mired the New York Jets in New Jersey so, I hate him.
3. Give all praise to Tannenbaum who has done everything possible to try and make us a powerhouse. He has a tough job. You can pick up a Free Agent who has been spectacular elsewhere and they can roll over and play dead for you. You can draft the number one defensive lineman in college and he can look like he never played the game before, once he gets to the pros.
Thanks to Tanny — this is going to be a fun season.
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The Green Latern #80 says:
Can anybody fill me in on Chris’s purpose.
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Harvlis- I can at least agree with your feelings on Woody.
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Green. The topic was the Jets spending money.
I gave my opinion that this is beginning to cross into Redskin land…not there yet but a few more of these moves and it can.
It then morphed into drafting, building a winner.
Does that make sense to you?
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Zartan says:
Chris,because we had Manghini and Shotty.
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You mean still have Shotty???
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StvDoe says:
It seems to me that our roster is better than it’s been in 20 years. I agree there’s been some cost in lack of depth, but without a quality 22 what good is depth?
If your front office can pick up a pro bowler every year in perpetuity, and a top player averages a 10 year career, then you’ll always have 10 pro bowlers on your team.
Quality depth is generally drafted, but adequate depth can be acquired elsewhere.
I understand the desire to be Pittsburgh.
But given our team’s history I’m very happy with our direction. It seems to me we’re getting closer, and that’s all I ask for.
I’m not the type of fan that thinks if you don’t win the Superbowl you’ve failed. All I ask for is a team that wins more than it loses and makes the playoffs on a fairly regular basis. Just give me a reason to keep rooting in December and the reasonable hope of rooting in February.
I’d love to win another Superbowl. (I was 18 the first time.) But the big game is just one day. It’s the other 6 months that really matter to me.
As far as those 6 months go, I’m satisfied with the job of our current front office.
And I think the drafting of Sanchez may get us over the hump to February.
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Stv.
10 pro bowlers?? Really?? How many teams ever do that, let alone year after year.
Look at the number of pro bowlers of SB teams.
Pitt 3
NYG 1
Ind 5Patriots never had many.
Let’s get off the Pro Bowl guys and build a team!!!
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The Patriots won championships because they have the best QB in the game and possibly the most clutch kicker in NFL history.
That’s obviously over simplifying things but those two points are a huge reason they were able to do what they did.
If Sanchez lives up to the hype and Tanny/Rex build around him we could be a championship contender year in and year out.
Viva La Sanchez!
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I merely gave the pro bowler hypothesis to illustrate the efficacy of trading up to get the player you desire. This assumes you’re correct in your assesment. It seems to me that Tanny has been so when trading up.
Like I said I understand your desire to be Pittsburgh. (Or New England if you prefer.)
But as I explained, I’m not going to bitch if the Jets aren’t.
I’m not a Yankee fan.
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JDB says:
The diff. between woody and Snyder is that Woody allows Tannenbaum to make the personnel decisions and Mike T finds players that fit what they are trying to do on the field. He doesn’t sign a big name just because they are a big name, he finds a guy who fits the system.
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Chris how bout we build a team of pro bowlers that sounds good to me and i agree with everything jesusrevis said sorry chris u lose. And like crom said the only reason the patriots won all those sb’s is because of tom brady or else they would just be a ordinary team like everyone else. And dont worry chris the jets will win a SB soon u’ll see
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I have not been Woody’s biggest supporter. I do feel that he is a guy possessed with the desire to win. And he will win! He is spending money wisely now. He is unlike Snyder! Woody knows how to build a business and football is a business! REX will get to the White House sooner rather then later and he will be wearing green and white! GO JETS!
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Alright I’m back. I had to get some inspiration from my friend Mary Jane.
Chris,
I understand the results do not reflect the talent, but for what is worth, we did have the most pro bowlers in the NFL. My point is that Tannenbaum is BUILDING a winner.
For you to claim his trades have been questionable is ridiculous. His last 3 major trades (Jones, Jenkins, Favre), all made the pro bowl.
If one of your complains is that we have “QB issues”, then you must have missed the NFL draft last weekend. This “issue” has been addressed, and if the results don’t show this season, then they will next season.
“20% of the team is over 30, including many starters on both lines.”
-Sure the Jets have older players at a few key positions, but isn’t this league filled with veterans? Doesn’t every NFL team have a solid group of veterans at key positions? So the Jets will handle this just like every other NFL team, through the draft.
“We have no elite receiver? It’s now the 2nd coach of this regime. We’ve had some top 10 draft blusters. Some questionable FA moves.”
-The Jets traded up for Dustin Keller because they believed he would become an elite pass catcher. He may be listed as a tight end, but he hardly lines up on the line, and he plays like a wide receiver. He gives the Jets more flexibility in the passing game. Plus Leon Washington will also be a big part of the passing game. I expect around 45-50 receptions for Leon this year. Keller and Washington will be key parts of the Jets passing game. With Cotchery, Stuckey, Clowney, and Smith, the Jets have a formiddable wide reciever group.
Just because it is the 2nd coach of this regime, doesn’t mean that’s a bad things. Lets allow all of these moves to play out before we start making all of these ill-advised judgments.-As far as the “top 10 draft blunders” and “questionable FA moves”, I would need specific examplesof what you’re referring to. I assume the draft blunder is Vernon Gholston (which is still too early to say), and I guess your including D’Brickshaw Feruson, which is absurd.
The free agency moves have been well above average. -
ganggreen4ever says:
Aviod Rebuilding?????
Didnt we just draft a rookie quarterback?
We aren’t like the Yankees who spend all their money on old washed up players, we build our team through young talented players with a very nice mix of Vetran leadership. Look at linebacking core and secondary and tell us that we”re old after that. -
Gang.
I’m not sure what you mean- I didn’t ask the team to avoid rebuilding.
Also- the game starts in the trenches.
Jesus.
As I’ve said- for those who support this FO, we’ll let the results do the talking. I could care less about pro bowlers. I want titles my friend. And to this point, our owner and GM have shown me no ability to build that.
E- you’re just an idiot.
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Kentucky?
What business has Woody ever built?? Hahahaha.
Have you ever listened to the Johnson heirs?
They’re one step above retarded.
The only praise I give Woody is he is a very generous and kind man. For football- he knows nada!
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KJS says:
New coach talking up KC and BR. Trade away the first days picks and three players from last years roster to move up.
NEED RB, or TE, or WR, or DE or trade down for value at needs.
Trade away second days picks (except 6thRD) to move up.
NEED DEPTH!!!
I see a disturbing trend, throw CPen to the curb for a hall of fame BFavre that was more or less thrown to the curb by the packers.
Whose calling the shots. An meddlesome owner opening a new stadium interested in putting fannys in the seats OR the people that are supposed to know something about football?
I don’t buy the argument about Woody opening up his wallet versus other franchises. There’s a salary CAP. That is why the Skins are consistently a mediocre team under Snyder. Big (sometimes aging) names, big dollars, and NO DEPTH.
Its one thing if Woody is opening his wallet, which every single NFL franchise is obligated to do for their fans, but is Woody pulling the strings? I certainly hope NOT.
How much input did Mangini have to throwing CPen to the curb and bringing in BFavre. I’m happy with the change of culture brought on by Ryan. But the cards were set in 2008, POUND the ball.
BUT, I feel that Woody is putting his nose where it doesn’t belong. Hey, I hope I’m wrong. The world (media and fans) seems to be pleased with the two picks, at least there was a third pick, hopefully a diamond in the rough. I am certainly not happy with ONLY three picks from the draft that had opportunity for a plethora of players. Obviously much better chance finding diamonds from draft picks versus scrap heap. JETS Jets Jets jets
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JetsWin09 says:
The owners that are willing to spend the big bucks are usually the ones who win the championships. Just look at the Giants who only won the Superbowl after finally opening their wallets and signing a bunch of expensive free agents. I hope that Woody Johnson keeps spending because this team is getting real close to being a perenial play-off team!!!
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Chris O ok I just saw everyone arguing with you and I wanted to know what the disagreement was.
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Chris,
that’s not much of a response for all of the ill-advised comments you made.
The Jets Offensive Line has 3 young players; Ferguson, Mangold and Moore. All 3 are well above average for their position, and 2 are pro bowl calibur players. Faneca and Woody are both 32 but neither have given any reason to think their production will slow down. Every NFL team has older veterans on their O-Line, the Jets are no different. Slauson is a potential replacement for Faneca and the Jets will have plenty of opportunities to draft a replacement at RT in the next few drafts.
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JetsWin.
They signed smart upon position of need and never overpaid for stars, let alone aging ones…
I suppose this had nothing to do with it…
Drafts!
2004
Eli Manning
Chris Snee
Reggie Torbor
Gibril Wilson (5th!)2005
Corey Webster
Justin Tuck (3rd!)
Brandon Jacobs (4th!!)2006
Mathias Kiwanuka
Sinorice Moss
Gerris Wilkinson
Barry Cofield (4th!!)2007
Aaron Ross
Steve Smith
Jay Alford
Kevin Boss (5th!)
Michael Johnson
Ahmad Bradshaw (7th!!)Folks, just like the Patriots, Steelers, Colts- these are multiple consecutive years of drafts that brought many starters and contributors- completed with strong picks in the top rounds.
Whether or not we perceive these guys as stars- the truth is they contributed to title runs and were cost effective and home grown players.
Sure, the Giants opened up a bit with Burress, Pierce and McKenzie but it’s quite obvious their title run was built via the draft.
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Chris,
you’re a Giant fan.
you know nothing about the Jets.
simo
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Jesus.
I’m not going to continue to debate this. We clearly see things different and that’s great- fun to debate.
That being said, I think the Favre deal was an obvious mistake that set us back and cost a valuable pick. I also think that Pace and Woody are overpaid and Faneca is bad against the pass, thus not really allowing him to live up to his dollar amounts. On top of that, I think we have left some open holes via free agency- Ex: WR and DE.
Gholston is clearly a huge bust to this point, a mistake title teams don’t often make with that high of a pick. And although he’s been solid- Ferguson is clearly at the bottom when compared to top 10 Tackles. I think the Jets could have taken a different strategy that year. Also, we have landed some solid players via draft and trades but I’m not sure that the cost makes sense based on all the picks we have traded for Jenkins, Jones, Revis, Harris- now Sanchez and Greene.
For the folks who say well those late picks don’t mean anything, I have outlined many team drafts with players available and it’s clear you can capitalize. It’s also funny how on other posts guys talk about the prospects of UDFA’s. I’m on board with that but you cant value those players yet discount actual draft spots.
Again- we’ll let the production speak for itself. And hopefully I’m wrong…sadly, I think we are going down a continued path as the laughing stock of the league.
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Tannenbaum’s first draft was 2006.
Since the 2006 draft, the Giants have drafted 4 starters, all from the 2007 draft, and none are impact players.
Steve Smith
Kevin Boss
Michael Johnson
Aaron Ross.Since the 2006 draft the Jets have drafted 6 starters, 3 have been to the pro bowl.
D’Brickshaw Ferguson
Nick Mangold
Leon Washington
Darrelle Revis
David Harris
Dustin Keller -
Jesus. Too sad you say that. Considering I have been to every home game for the last 19 years and make at least 3 road travels each yr as well.
I have 4 season tickets and had no question in securing seats for the future.
It’s just too sad that because I disagree or question what is clearly a incompetent FO, that my allegiance is questioned.
That’s fine my friend- be happy with the product and keep drinking the kool aid.
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…The other picks for the Giants since 06
Mathias Kiwanuka – good player, could start on many teams.
Sinorice Moss – bust
Gerris Wilkinson – sucks
Barry Cofield -good backup2007
Jay Alford – doesnt play, and wont.
Ahmad Bradshaw – 3rd string RB -
Hey dum dum!! I am not comparing Tanny’s drafts to the other teams- I am clearly setting up their own paths to a title!!!!!!!
Stop thinking I am comparing that!!
Tanny has also created two contract disasters with a 3rd and potentially 4th looming. Unknown amounts spent on FA and various picks traded away.
I’m giving examples how to properly build a team and the Jets have not done that regardless of what you believe. Where are the results!!! Answer me that!
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Let me get some of your kool-aid, I like to hallucinate too.
It’s not a coincidence that no one is agreeing with you
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You used the Giants drafts as an example of how to build a team, and I just showed you the Jets have had better drafts than the Giants since Tannenbaum has been here. The proof is in the pudding, not the kool-aid.
dum dum huh? I’ll stick with what i’ve said so far and leave it at that. I’m not much for the name calling.
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“Tanny has also created two contract disasters with a 3rd and potentially 4th looming. Unknown amounts spent on FA and various picks traded away. ”
Where are you getting this from? Unkown amounts? Contract Disasters? examples pal?
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You are too jaded my friend.
Bradshaw was a friggin 7th rd pick and clearly an intrical part to their title run!
As for the DT’s- Cofield is only ‘listed’ as a non-starter because the Giants acquired two very good lineman. He had 43 tackles and 3 sacks last yr as an interior lineman. He has started 47 of 48 games since being drafted. Stats almost identical to Jenkins!
Alford, ditto for the above. 2.5 sacks as a good depth interior lineman- we would only be lucky to have him spell Jenks. He has started 32 of 32 games the past 2 seasons!!
Agreed that Moss isn’t that great but he does get attention on the field and had 20 catches for over 10ypc in 2007. As a depth player, he is valuable.
Wilkinson is very good on special teams. Watch a game.
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By unknown amounts, you can add it up last season, in the range of $150mil- I don’t know the exact sum of the contracts nor what it will be once the player contract ends.
For the contract disputes- Kendall, Baker, Jones and possibly Leon.
That’s a trend buddy.
And by the way, I don’t need anyone to agree.
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A few things
1) Saying Gholston “is clearly a huge bust” after one year in the league is not an intelligent statement.
2) Which late round picks are you referring to trading away? Is there really much of a difference between an UDFA and a 6th or 7th round pick in terms of talent? I mean how much of a difference can there be? A large number of those picks never do anything in the NFL.
3) Prior to this years draft Tanny had traded away 13 picks and got 13 picks back in trade. Obviously that number is worse now. -
I said huge bust to this point…read on my friend
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They also have traded numerous 2nd and 3rd rd picks and I would not quantify those as late round.
At the end of the day, a team with multiple holes and depth issues- it’s tough to walk away from a draft with 3 players…
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Fred says:
Chris,
2006
Mathias Kiwanuka
Sinorice Moss
Gerris Wilkinson
Barry Cofield (4th!!)2007
Aaron Ross
Steve Smith
Jay Alford
Kevin Boss (5th!)
Michael Johnson
Ahmad Bradshaw (7th!!)2006
D’Brick and mangold over kiwanuka
Sinorice Moss is a joke
Eric Smith has contributed more than Gerris Wilkinson
Barry Cofield (4!!) Leon Washington (4th!!) (Ill let you take Cofield) Brad Smith2007
Revis over Ross and that entire draft
David Harris over Smith (8th in nfl in tackles rookie year, started 9 games, 5 sacks!)
Dwight Lowery showed mcuh potential last year, including 5 FF whcih is riduclous for a DB
and oh yea, my boy Chansi Stuckey in the 7th round.Revis and Harris rape their entire board alone.
What now, Chris. -
Chris,
You could say whatever you want about Bradshaw, but the Giants wouldn’t miss a beat if he were to go down for the season. I could rush for 5 ypc behind that nasty of an O-Line.
Cofield has identical stats to Jenkins? Keep making your ridiculous comments, Jenkins was a pro bowler and an al-pro, Cofield is a solid player.
Alford started 32 of 32 games? He didnt start 1. He could never back up Jenkins, hes way too small.
I don’t know where you saw Moss get attention? But he doesnt.
Wilkinson is good on special teams? Great for him, I was naming impact players and the Giants special teams are average.
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Fred.
You apparently have the same deficiency that Revis has. I am not comparing the last 2 yrs of Giants vs Jets. I hate the friggin Giants!!
I used their 4 yr span along with other Title teams to show how those teams were built. Beyond statistics- how the players homegrown in a certain period brought their team over the top. I do not see the Jets following those type of paths. And I dont think they have properly added to this team.
Again- you say, what now. I say, results.
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Im done with this. To reiterate my first post, YOURE WAY OFF CHRIS!!!!!!
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Speaking of special teams, Wallce Wright was an undrafted FA. Wilkinson was a 3rd round pick. Who got the value there?
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Revis.
You’re right- I made a typo. Early in the Alford statement you saw I wrote he was good interior lineman depth. I mean to say, he played in all 32 games and not started.
For Cofield- you didn’t even know he was a starter. You looked up a depth chart and saw Bernard and Canty there now. And from a numbers game, they are equal. Look them up. I agree Jenkins is much better (when he keeps on the field) but since you’re all locked up in numbers- well, they are what they are.
For Wilkinson- he’s a valuable pick that made the team…more than we can say about….Anthony Schlegel???
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Chris, the Giants lost 4 out of their last 5 games without Plaxico Burress, someone the Giants did NOT draft. The Giants were clearly a garbage team without Plax. Also, their defensive signal caller Antonio Pierce was a Redskin, and 6 years 42 mill for Chris Canty you gotta be on crack. Dont give me this bs that Chris Canty is so good because he was just a mediocre player for the Cowboys palying in a 3-4 system.
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Fred, you’re 100% right. What about the Giants picking up Derrick Ward- a player we released??
I mean that stuff happens. I just identified players who made the team and contribute at some level. That’s all- I didn’t annoint him Dick Butkus.
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Derrick Ward is someone we drafted who the Giants took off our rpactice squad, muhc like Danny Ware. The fact that we drafted him late in the 7th round and kept him around shows that we can recognize talent…now you’re just trying to defend the Giants instead of proving that the Jets do a poor job drafting.
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What’s your point with Canty? He was just signed. My goodness- give guys a chance.
Again- you are misinterpreting the points and just attacking. That’s fine. Never did I say it was only the draft. I said teams like Giants, Steelers, Patriots, Colts used the money wisely. You obviously need FA signings. But are drafts are so shallow- we are giving up opportunities to stay prudent with the cap and keep players longer and build a team full of depth.
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Oh yea, that reminds me. Ward signed a 4-year, 17 mill deal. Chris Canty signs a 6 year, 42 mill deal. how is this possible?
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No- I’m not defending a team I despise. You are putting me in the defensive position by bringing up invalid points. On the back end of UFDA, or FA signings- I am not disputing that. My point is, every team will have some hits and misses. But how are we building this team? A rookie QB behind an aging and thin offensive line? Across the field from an aging and thin defensive line? No proven vertical playmaker? Continued influx of players and coaches in new systems??
Also- for signings, when I brought that up- it was to reiterrate, smart money. Can you argue the success of Pierce and Burress? Are the Jets signings even realtively close to those?
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Well Chris, I udnerstand your point with the teams you’re mentioning, but Tannenbaum has been GM for only a couple years and the talent is clearly there. Sure, we only had 3 picks, but Sanchez is a potential franchise QB, we gave up just a 1st, 2nd round pick and 3 mediocre players. For Eli Manning, the Giants gave up their first, 3rd, 1st, 5th.
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“I said huge bust to this point…read on my friend”
And you follow it up with talking about how top teams rarely make such a mistake implying that either he’s a flat out bust or you aren’t aware of how many players take a couple/three years to develop. Don’t play dumb.Yes there are depth issues that need to be addressed. At the end of the day the 22 starters are the most important guys. Until you have 22 true NFL caliber starters depth isn’t going to mean a hell of a lot because you’re only as strong as your weakest link.
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Running backs break down- it is difficult to assume long term responsiblity.
Also- from what I understand the Ward deal includes $13mm in guarantees while the Canty deal has $17mm. That brings it closer. I have not looked those numbers up, so relax on the tar and feather procedures if it is off.
Regardless, Ward is 2 yrs older at a much more vigorous position and as previously noted above, many teams were concerned about Ward being the product of the ‘system’.
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Well, in 2007 we had maybe the worst o-line in football, this past year, we had the leading afc rushing attack and a solid pass protection. Faneca is getting older, yes, and so is woody (although hes not that old), but brandon moore, Dbrick, and mangold are all relativly young, so the core of our O-line is intact for a while. leon Washington is maybe the best playmaker in the NFL, and the aquisition of Kris Jenkins made us go from the 29 th rank rush defense to the 6th, even when jenkins was hurt at the end of the season.
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Fred.
You seem pretty reasonable. I know Tanny has not had a huge plate to measure him on but I obviously disagree with the path. And I am concerned Woody is far more involved than we believe. And that scares me. And as I look at it- this plan is just confusing to me. Has he been a total disaster? No, we’ve had multiple high picks and he’s had a ton of cash to spend. So, he’s going to make some good moves. But where does this team go? Is it built to learn with Sanchez? Are we young enough for that? How does the cap morph as years go on?
Crom.
You are right. I’m not playing dumb, I just said I did not rule him as a bust in general. Do I think he will be…yes. My point with the other teams was, yes, quite often they do see impact or at least potential right away. Does that mean the ceiling? Not at all. But did you see any glimpses from VG at all?
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True about the “product of the system” but ward hasnt been around too long and hasnt taken as many hits as many running backs. Ward is a GREAT shotgun RB and will hlep a passing game tremendously with his threat to run in any situation. Canty is 2 years younger, sure, but he hasnt proved anything close to the money that he made.
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Fred.
I agree that Faneca and Woody helped our line. And I agree that we have a good core with the others. But did we spend a bit too much? Yes, possibly. Will it bite us, either in cap difficulty, or contract disputes…maybe.
But we are thin. And for the folks suggesting, the 22 are most important, we yes- that’s right. But in this game, how easy is it that one, or a few of the top 22 go down…whats our team look like then?
And Fred. For big Jenk. Early on, he was a clear creator of chaos for the offenses. But let’s not overrate the run defense. I think the fact we were 29th against the pass has some to do with that…
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Agreed on Canty. I like him alot though. But that’s what happens. You get a guy that fits the system, shows potential and the money is spent. And we know how the contracts work. If he collects half that- he’ll be lucky. Similar to Calvin Pace…did he deserve his $42mm…No. Was it a horrible signing. Not at all. But overpaid just the same.
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Nikolas says:
Chris, ….I think your arguments are convincing. But we all knew that Tannenbaum would be learning on the job. So his record is mixed. Some good moves and some bad ones, and we are what we are..not yet a playoff team. The last time we got to the playoffs was with Chad..the guy who also transformed a 1-15 team to a division winer with an 11-5 record, our QB that did beat the hell out of us in our stadium last year.
Chad proved..that Mangini, Tanny and Woody were incompetent, Chad embarrassed them and Tanny and Woody took cover by blaming Mangini ….. Let’s hope that they are lucky at least…. -
Hell no I didn’t see anything from VG. I just think it’s way to early to label him a bust. He did have to learn a new position at the highest level possible after all. If you look at other 3-4 DE’s making that transition most of them take at least half a season before they’re very productive. It’s been a year and I’m worried about what he’ll do. Hopefully Rex can get something out of him.
As for the cap, Tannenbaum is a financial guy and has done a wonderful job managing/manipulating that so far. That’s the last thing I’d worry about w/him.
You don’t hear about top teams drafting a mistake in the top 10 because they rarely, if ever, draft there. The Pats have missed on plenty of there picks.
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^ — meant 3-4 OLB’s there.
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We spent so much last year and STILL had a lot of cap space this year. So lets say next year we dont go after any big anmes like we did this year-then theres the year after that. People always exxagerate the FA market as if u cant win that way-well, thats if u dont have a good busineessman running your team. Well, Tannenbaum IS a good business man, and he can also clearly identify talent.6 years 48 mill was alot for Scott, but now a days you HAVE to overpay, especially for a player we REALLY wanted. We needed him to help create our defense. Look at another deal, Michael Boley., 5 years 25 mill. I have a brother down in Atlanta and he told me Boleys palying time was extremely reduced after the midway point becuase he just faltout didnt do anything.
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ramble914 says:
Anyone who says Gholston is a bust doesn’t know what they are talking about. I’m not saying he will be All World, nor am I saying that he is finished after one year, what I’m saying is that the jury is still out on his career. One year doesn’t prove a thing. Just like Flacco or Ryan’s successful first year, it does not mean future success. It’s obvious to me that Gholston is a special case, and will need time to develop. From all indications Mangini was a poor developer of talent, as shown by his handling of Keller, Stuckey, Clowney and others. Let’s see what Rex can do with Gholston before we label him a bust, especially after only one season.
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Guys.
I am on record all over the blog, that Tanny is very valuable and I have full confidence in his cap abilities. But you cannot be a complete bandit.
Because we will end up with Kendall type situations and I don’t think that’s good for anyone.
So, although it may be paper money, especially on the backed- they cannot be completely careless, that was my only point with that.
I like Scott to come in and be an embassor for the new defense. I just can’t kill the Canty type deals when we have essentially been a part of the same practice.
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VERNON GHOLSTON…
TO THIS POINT…
IS A COMPLETE BUST…
Can it change, sure. But he should not be a project, has $21mm in guaranteed money- so until proven otherwise, he is a bust.
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By that logic every player drafted is a bust until they prove otherwise.
I think we’re arguing mostly semantics which is silly. Yes he’s done absolutely nothing. My understanding of the word bust is someone who has been in the league for at least 3 years and hasn’t done anything. After three years you start talking bust IMO, not prior.
Kellen Clemens – looks like a bust.
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While we are talking about Gholston LT said he has better tools than Demarcus Ware..So If we get a fire lit under his butt we may have something. Thats off subject but I just wanted to say it.
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Did LT say that before or after a rock?
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Warren Buffett says:
Chris, I happen to agree with you on some of the points you are making(even though you do sound like a Giant fan). You stated that Woody doesn’t know anything about football…I agree. The guy just inherited his money. You make great points about the giants drafting TEAM players instead of pro bowlers…I AGREE. The point is that a team wins with an offensive line,pass rush and a QB. That’s how you build winners and well the Jets have none of that as of NOW. If I remember correctly Ernie Accorsi took a risk in trading Rivers for Manning and the risk panned out. The Jets took a risk in getting Sanchez and I’m totally for it. Don’t forget Chris that very few teams have the scouting department and guts that the Steelers,patriots and giants have. Just look at the last few years and tell me what teams have been the most consistent in the NFL. the ones i mentioned above as you can see. Now lets look at the other teams….yeah the other 29 teams….they haven’t been so successful.
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Chris,
I know Cofield has started the last 2 seasons, but I was listing current starters and he has been demoted to a back up. If he had significant value to the Giants, then they would not have signed both Chris Canty and Rocky Bernard to play ahead of him.
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Warren.
Well said. But we should strive towards the top and not be satisfied because others lie in misery with us. Now, I know that wasn’t what you were suggesting but I’m saying as a JETS fan that I want the best and to be honest am growing a little impatient.
And someone above wrote this is the most talented squad in the last 20 yrs. And part of me agrees, again, why I get so emotional when I see things that can possibly be done better.
So, although there may be only a handful of class franchises, I’m not sure why we cannot become one of them. The Patriots were not always. And teams like Baltimore, Indianapolis, ARIZONA, Chicago, Philly, Dallas, Buffalo, Washington, Denver, Carolina, Green Bay, Tennessee, St Louis, San Fran, Seattle, Atlanta, Oakland, Tampa (Maybe missed a few) have all seen super bowls in the last 15 yrs. So- I dont know that I need a perennial winner, or multiple title team but I’d like to get the experience of one of the above and try to seperate the Jets at the bottom with teams like New Orleans and Detroit, etc.
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Jesus.
He’s LISTED there…let’s see how the pre-season plays out.
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Not that it matters but for those who question and wonder where my allegiances lie. I’m not the oldest of Jets fan but am suffering a terminal illness and not sure when I’ll see the Jets win won. As a lifelong fan, something I’v shared with my father- it is becoming increasingly difficult to deal with.
Nobody has to comment on this, I’d rather you not- sympathy is not the object of my post.
But I want this team to win more than anyone else, I just am hoping that can find that ‘miracle’. When I do see other teams though, I just feel we are missing something.
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hank/naples says:
Chris:
You are sooo right , it’s ridiculous !!! Every koolade drinker swears that Tannenbauam robbed Mangini in this draft. BUT, at the end of the day the Jets walked away with a grand total of 21/2 players. While Mangini walked away with 11 (ELEVEN) Not bad when you consider that Tannenbaum started with 6 and Mangini with 4. If, and it is still an if, one player doesn’t start for the Jets, that means thattotal sum of this years draft is 11/2players.
I’m sure all the koolade drinkers will still scream ” WE GOT QUALITY OVER QUANTITY” -
I’ll traded you 11 pennies for 1 quarter. Surely you have the better end of this deal.
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Crom…what about 11 nickels?
Who says that 2nd-7th Rd picks have to be the worst case?
In a light of positivity- I love the kid Slauson! I also love Potter as an UDFA. Those guys, although they probably won’t be pro bowlers and other sites will say they suck, yadda yadda- are FOOTBALL PLAYERS. And on our lines, that’s what we need.
Had we kept picks, we could’ve walked away with Nicks, or Britt- Moala and Duke Robinson. I’m not sure we wouldn’t have been immediately better.
And truth be told. I cannot see what definite qualities Sanchez has over Ratliff…or even Clemens.
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Crom:
Only if your pennies are really shiny.
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Chris,
We’re all arguing extreme ends of the spectrum and the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. The Pats drafted 12 guys this year, how many of them do you think actually make their team?
I don’t know a lot about Sanchez. I will say start with looking at his footwork though. It’s clearly better than either Clemens or Ratliff already.
I think the team is in a great position now to start drafting for depth next year.
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Crom.
Who knows how many will make the Pats. But I can say that they have better odds at fielding a young and hungry team…better odds than we do. They also have better odds at finding some gems- 1/12 is more likely than 1/3.
Sanchez in my eyes is a bit overrated. Pelzman even referenced that if he stands next to the wrong guy, he looks like he was ready to mount a horse in the derby. Not exactly the commentary I like to read for a guy we basically mortgaged the future for.
At 6’5 with a very strong arm, I liked the ceiling that Ratliff had. Sorry but watching him practice, along with college films- he has great ‘potential’. Enough potential that I would’ve built depth at the lines, added a playmaker at WR and installed the run-heavy offense. I personally think he could’ve run that…effectively.
But the Jets chose another direction. And time will tell where it goes. Franchise history is certainly not on our side. And to an extent, I’d say neither is the FO track record…based on performance.
So- where do we go? We’ll find out. But even in the event Sanchez is an immediate All-Pro, I’m not sure this team has the horses to make a run.
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Cleveland is in complete rebuilding mode. The Jets have much more talent and can compete right now. It does not benefit Cleveland to draft for quanitity when they have so many holes. The Jets are a lot closer to winning, and that comparison is stupid.
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Cleveland may be rebuilding but they are a QB and WR up on the Jets….
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If every pick/player were equal than the straight odds you’re talking about would be accurate, but they aren’t. I would compare it to horses in a race. If there are 8 horses, they all have different odds of winning the race based on a number of factors. If I put all my money on the clear favorite and you bet 4 other horses does that mean you have a better chance of winning because you picked 4 horses and I only picked one?
If the Pats don’t get more starters out of 12 picks than us with 3 than something went terribly wrong. But they already have that franchise QB and were lucky to find him in the 6th round. They also have Randy Moss (trade), Wes Welker (trade) and Fred Taylor (FA).
Like I said I don’t know a heck of a lot about Sanchez, but there is a reason why all the scouts who are paid to evaluate players had him as a blue chip prospect. A lot of people had him as the best QB in this draft. There’s a reason why Ratliff was an UDFA.
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At this point Sanchez has 10 times more value than any QB on Clevelands roster. They may be a WR up on us, but we have better players at 90% of the positions.
Chris, it seems you are a Giant fan posting on a jets message board. I’m not going to say its definite, but that is how it seems, and if my hunch is correct you are essentially a troll. The more I think about it, I do not believe I have ever seen a positive comment about the Jets come from you.
I have atleast proven to you that since Tannenbaum has taken over for the Jets he has drafted significantly better than the Giants, a team who you keep referring to as a model franchise. He has done everything possible to trade for players and acquire talent through free agency. He is trying his best to build a winning football team, and for the most part his track record is excellent.
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Crom, you’re right on the money. Some teams value quality over quantity and there is no reason to debate that strategy.
If I was extremely wealthy I wouldnt buy 10 honda civics, I would buy 1 Ferrarri, 1 Bentley and 1 Range Rover.
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Crom.
I agree, of course Sanchez should be a much higher favorite to contribute to the team at a higher level than anyone the Pats drafted. That being said, regardless of the odds- the Pats have a higher percentage to field depth based on their player pool. And regardless what you folks think on depth- it is a very important ingredient in the NFL.
As fas as your creedence in talent evaluators- look up in your own post and read where Brady went. I give the so-called experts very very little credit.
What I truthfully think is, they saw a name from a big school playing the biggest position; he had some charisma and I think they love the Mexican angle.
What I look at, stupid or otherwise- he is the first USC QB to leave early since Marinovich…how’d that go??
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Jesus.
You haven’t seen my posts enough. Because prior to this draft- I have always been very very very optimistic on the Jets. My only negative pre-draft was at the end of last yr and I was very hard on Mangini…as was everyone…watching him, it was pretty evident the direction we were headed.
I’m not even going to address the Giant talk anymore, I’m confident my experiences, fanhood and overall time invested in this team can run circles around you. And I know the team and the game infinitely better than you as well- that much I’m confident in.
As for Sanchez. Sure, based on his persona being blown up in the media- he is more valuable. What he’ll do on the field is yet to be seen, although I’d take Quinn and Edwards for Sanchez any day of the week.
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If you’re going to make comments like “run circles around you” and “I know the game infinitely better than you” then dont even bother posting. From the things youve said on this thread, I’d say its clear that is not the case. Maybe you’re too confident.
Back to football, I’m pretty sure what Quinn can do is yet to be seen as well. The browns want to trade Edwards, theres a reason for that. Sanchez is a better prospect than Quinn hands down. Think before you type.
I guess it’s too bad Bassett created such a great website, because now it attracts too many non jet fans coming to talk trash.
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The Pats are in a better position to build depth though. They already have the main pieces to the puzzle in place. I think we’re getting there, but clearly we’re not there yet.
I agree 100% that depth is very important, especially in December/January when injuries start to pile up. Look at what happened to our defense last season when Jenkins herniated the disk in his back and we didn’t have a solid backup. I think the first priority should be to field 22 solid starters though. How can you build depth behind someone who isn’t a clear NFL starter?
Brady was an anomaly. The Pats got lucky as hell there. Name one other franchise QB in the history of the league drafted that late. Now look at all the playoff QB’s from last season and where they were drafted.
As for Marinovich, meh, that’s clearly not enough of a data set to call it a trend.
“What I truthfully think is, they saw a name from a big school playing the biggest position; he had some charisma and I think they love the Mexican angle.”
Why would you think this? Why would every NFL scout being paid big bucks rank him so high for those reasons? He was the #1 rated QB in highschool when he went to USC and played outstanding when his time came to play there. His skillset and leadership are why he’s projected to do very well in the NFL.It sounds like you WANT him to fail.
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Did I say Quinn was better than Sanchez…did you see me type that?
Revis- where are your seats?
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“Cleveland may be rebuilding but they are a QB and WR up on the Jets….”
You said they are a QB up on the Jets, meaning they have a better QB then the Jets. I assumed you meant Quinn was better than Sanchez.
My seats? I don’t have seats. I go to 3-5 games a year using my brothers tickets. Why do you ask? Are you coming to beat me up? Or are you implying I am not a fan because I don’t own season tickets?
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For Brady and Marinovich- I agree they both may be exceptions to the rule. Again, you take one thing I say and make it a broad generalization. I am providing those points- for the exact sake to avoid these blanket statements…that just because one guy is a high pick and another is not, then automatically the high pick is better. Or just because one team is set for depth and the other isnt, then we should cut our draft in half to segment one starting position only…because the other two were for depth, correct?
Ok- why I think on Sanchez.
1. Coming out of high school, you’re right- he was top rated player. That makes me nervous because he couldn’t even beat out Booty for the job. Look at other high school football players of the year…you likely dont know where any are now…one played BASKETBALL for Duke.
2. He started 16 games. He played very well. But I do think that he could’ve benefited from more time in school- a thought cemented by his own coach and very well respected talent evaluator.
I’m not rooting him to fail. But I’m realistic. And you folks just go on the attack, sure I have to play contrarian role. Because automatically you call people stupid, or non-fans, or whatever you say. For what? Have I come on and said anything inaccurate? Is it unbelievable? Is it supported by facts? And on the field results?
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Beat you up? I weight 147 lbs and cannot get up well these days. So no.
To tell the truth- yes, I was going to question your support oft he Jets for lack of making every game. And I understand that it’s tough economically but I wanted you to get a sense of how unfair it is that people may question your integrity for silly reasons.
Are you a real fan even if you watch every game on the couch? Absolutely you would be. Just like I am a real fan despite not supporting every move this franchise makes, just because that’s what people think I should do.
I have very little faith in this owner and am I’m sorry for that. I will come on type, call in and voice and ultimately discuss my disgust at thie moment for anyone that decides to have the conversation.
At the end of the day, just for whatever reasons you don’t have seasons- I am a Jets fan. Through and through. And will be to the day I can no longer.
So you can disagree with my arguments and you can say I ‘sound’ like something but do me a favor- do not question what I have put into loving this team.
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PLEASEEEEEEEE Chris, you are being ridiculous. Trying to imply Sanchez’s status in high school is meaningless just because Greg Paulas played basketball at Duke, or because he couldnt beat out Booty, who was already playing in the system, and who was a great QB at USC anyway. Some of this stuff youre saying is just crazy.
And yes, you have said a lot of things that were inaccurate! All of your comments about the draft and trades and free agency havent been accurate.
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Chris,
First, I wasn’t attacking you. I simply said it sounds like you want him to fail. That is the impression I’m getting reading your comments. I have no reason to attack you and I wouldn’t do that. We’re all here because we share a common interest and I’m enjoying the discussion.
On the picks – I’m not sure I understand what you just said to be honest. I’m not saying a high pick is a guarantee or a low pick is an auto-fail. All I’m saying is that the higher picks are generally the most talented guys and have a much higher chance of being long time impact starters in the NFL. Of course there will be people like Brady and Marinovich.
As for Booty, there are many QB’s that are very good college QB’s but simply don’t project well to the NFL. Every year we see some top NCAA QB’s drafted very late or at a different position because there skillset simply doesn’t translate to the NFL level. There’s a reason Booty was a late round pick and Sanchez was top 5. Sanchez is projected by the guys who scout college football players for a living to be a way better NFL QB than Booty.
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Jesus.
It’s called a rebuttal…I did not imply he was equal to those folks. I am just breaking down how silly it is to grade someone’s future based on high school accolades!!
And I don’t think I’ve said anything inaccurate…the basis of my arguments.
1. Jets have spent a lot of draft picks on trades, either reaching up or acquiring aging veterans. This has potentially cost depth at key positons. TRUE
2. As a whole, the last 3 yrs draft has produced a number of high quality players but the number of overall contributors is thin. TRUE
3. We have overspent in free agency and some of the players brought in were towards the later stages of their career. With a rookie QB, it is confusing to understand the philosophy as there may not be time left to keep the team as it is now. TRUE
4. For some high end draft picks, the Jets have missed on capitalizing on top tier talent. TRUE
5. The Front Office has created some potential unnecessary contract issues and has not handled them in the best way. This will eventually catch up, losing trust as key negotiations will occur in the next few seasons. TRUE
6. As a generality, teams that have recently won super bowls, built their core via the draft and had multiple years where many players- both starters and role players – came and contributed to the teams success. TRUE
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Crom.
I didn’t mean you attacking me, sorry.
For the draft picks, in a snapshot- I meant every rule has an exception, so when I respond it is just to offset some generalizations, not to create my own.
Again- for the High School Player and Booty debate, it is basically to say, for every time you can reference his HS Player of the Year, you can say, well he didn’t beat out a guy who won’t play in the league. Nowhere to suggest Booty is better and/or Sanchez will follow that fate.
Sure, those guys get paid. But from Marinovich to Shuler to Leaf to Carr, on and one- I just don’t give much creedence. I rely on what I see and believe. And I’m wrong just as much but never will I accept someone elses thoughts- just because they get paid. Especially for something I feel I know relatively well and something that these ‘experts’ often get quite wrong.
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James in TN says:
So far I have applauded the Jets moves with the exception of Gholston, who is the next Blair Thomas. Look through the archives and you can see that I was adamant about not selecting him, and I was right, total waste of money. However, we have done well in bolstering our OL and our D through the draft. One huge mistake can be forgiven with several successes such as Revis, Mangold, Brick, Leon etc..
Gholston is a huggggeeeee bust!!!!
Nuff said.
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Gholston is not a bust its just that he didnt reach our expectations his rookie year but we have to give him a chance now that rex is here to work with him and ur only a bust after 3 years and he is only entering year two
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fonzie says:
I laugh how most of you call Gholston a bust. You know I hope he gets traded from here soon so another franchise that is not as corrupt as its owner takes him in and works with him. He needs a better fanbase than new york who just doesn’t have the patience for him. Then I can here most of you moan and complain that he is good under this team’s system because of the coaches but never say anything about how he treated here.
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The Ed(itor) says:
However, when all is said and done, Woody is screwing the average JETS fan with PSL license fees. And the corporate customer he thought he’d be getting isn’t buying because of the economy.
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After all the years of letting players pass us by because we didn’t want to spend, it’s a more than welcomed change. It’s not buying titles if he’s also seeking out the best fits for this team, or trying to make good football decisions based off reputation. It’s scrutinized because he makes a big splash, but he’s realizing that its going to take some money to build a winning tradition.
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SackDance99 says:
The key to a winning franchise is having the right GM and HC combo. All I want form the owner is to write the checks up to the salary cap and hire the right GM and HC. Woody’s record on these counts has not been good.
Woody was taken advantage of by Bob Kraft when he was in the process of buying the team. Kraft capitalized on the turmoil and snagged Belichick. After Parcells and Groh left, in retrospect, we should’ve been afraid and the Harmway combo destroyed the foundation of the team. Woody’s inexperience showed through. As much as he was to be commended for hiring an African-American coach, I think he was blinded by Herm’s rhetoric…why hire a 4-3 coach when one of the great 3-4 architects just built your team?
Again, in retrospect, I viewed taking Mangini as part payback by Woody against the Pats. I’ll say this about the Tanny/Mangini era, the OL and front 7 were made over into formidable units and the talent level was vastly upgraded. Last season was a disappointment, but the Jets have the foundation of a good team. Mangini’s coaching, however, was uneven…great game plans, but an inability to make in-game adjustments that was staggering.Now, I think the GM is in place, but is Rex the right HC? Every HC likes to start fresh with his QB, Rex has that and he has 2 of his former players to help the transition to his defensive system. He has the big back to help run his ball control offense and we won’t know how good the OL and DL depth is for some time, but I like the lower level free agent and UDFA signings.
Now, comes the tough part. Rex and Tanny (T-Rex?) have to win and win now. If they do, with Sanchez at QB, this franchise has the possibility of something else that’s important for success…stability. This is Woody’s 4th HC and it’s tough to build if HCs continue to fail. I think Woody finally made the right pick at HC, but we have to see the product on the field.
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Chris,
it’s easy for you to think everything youre saying is true, considering youre the one who said it.
“2. As a whole, the last 3 yrs draft has produced a number of high quality players but the number of overall contributors is thin. TRUE”
Again, I will go back to the Giants comparison. You applaud the Gians for being a model franchise, yet I proved to you before that the Jets have drafted more starters and contributors then the Giants have over the past 3 drafts. TRUE. So, how can you say the past 3 drafts has produced a thin group of contributors? I see;
Ferguson
Mangold
Washington
Brad Smith
Revis
Harris
Keller
Lowery
Gholston (will be a contributor this year)Plus, during that same time Tannenbaum has signed several key free agents (Faneca, Woody, Pace, Richardson) and traded for Jenkins and TJones. Basically almost our entire starting lineup has been build over the last 3 years under Tannenbaum. Through the draft, free agency and trades, he has built a very good starting lineup. You can try and claim those draft classes are thin, but he has drafted very good NFL starters while also picking up other pro bowlers in trades. Sorry Chris, youre wrong on this one. If you dont believe me just look at what other NFL teams have drafted over the same time period. Inclue trades and FA signings too if you like. Im sure you will see the same results; Tanny has done better. Case closed.
The Favre signing aside, the idea that the Jets are “buying a title” is laughable. They’re building a team from the ground up… OL, DL and DB and LBs over the course of several years. Only now does it make sense to go after some offense – starting with a long shot at QB. Had they gone after TO, Burress, Houshmandzadeh, Ray Lewis, Tony Gonzalez, etc, etc, etc. that would be something else. Woody has paid to create a team foundation – where else would it come from if not free agency, trades and the draft? It’s not like the Jets are teaming over with big superstar names. Quite the opposite. Smart signings take cash…