Is There Really Any Way to Know?
Mike Battaglino writes on the New York Post’s website, concerned that although the Jets would like you to believe they know what fans will be getting in Mark Sanchez, can’t possibly know it. Battaglino looks at Sanchez’s team history at the high school and collegiate level, and is worried that it was the team that made Sanchez great, not the other way around.
It’s a great read and this excerpt doesn’t do a fair job of laying out his argument.
Rex Ryan said it himself: “If your team is good enough, you can win with anybody.”
…
The Jets aren’t nearly as good, relatively, as Mission Viejo and USC. And there will be bad weather in the AFC East, and there will be close games, and the Jets likely will trail by more than eight points at some point.
No matter what the Jets say — or how they say it — there is no way to know if Sanchez is able to lead a lesser team on a game-winning drive, or can rally a trailing team at halftime, or can handle bad weather conditions (or temperatures in the low 40s).
And those situations probably will come up at least once during his career.
The parity if the league could be troubling to someone in Sanchez’s mold. Quarterback in the NFL is a thing you can’t know whether someone is suited to until they do it, when you get down to it. That said, I think Rex Ryan’s own words are the petard that could hoist the team’s front office, eventually should things not work out with Sanchez.
If a good team can win with anyone, then why expend all the energy to get someone who was not just anyone? Is the team not good enough. I’m hopeful, and I think that the mental side of the game Sanchez already has locked down, we’ll just have to see how he performs in close games and in rainy and windy conditions.
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I don’t believe that you can win with anybody. It’s the exception, not the rule. The better the QB, the better the chance of winning. It opens up so many more avenues — with “anybody” you must play ball control and you must have a great defense. Arizona could not have won with anybody. Neither could Pittsburgh. Say what you want about Roethlisberger and how ugly his game looks, but he’s money when it counts.
Since there is no way to pick a QB….. you have to go with your gut. The Jets saw a guy that was on a winning team, talented and had alot pf charisma. Sooo, they picked him and I’m sure he won’t suck. He seems to have the desire to be here and win so as a fan I am happy with that.
Stop with this “see I told you so” he is bad articles.
The article in itself makes no sense – the writer contradicts his own point – if it is true that you do not know what you are getting, than why even write the article?
The article makes a case for Sanchez not being able to win/close out games for his teams. I’ll give him that, but despite that, he’s still looked good and has won. I have to believe with the work ethic, maturity, competitiveness, athletic ability, leadership qualities and accuracy that he can and will win games for the Jets. He’s only had a few chances up to this point due to the quality of teams he’s been on. He’ll have a chance every week to prove it.
Just like other QB’s from the southern part of the country that did not flourish in cold weather cities.
Who cares what Sanchez does with a bad team. We want a guy to lead a good team to the Superbowl. Its a stupid point. The question is does he make a good team better or great, and I think that is gonna happen
This iswhy I like to say how our team owner is a miserable old man. He can’t find success but he does a great job imitating it. Remember Parcells in 2000 when he drafted a QB by the name of Chad Pennington. He was the vice president of football operations/ general manager and he knew more football than the immature Woody Johnson who just bought the team. He drafted Pennington because he found through his collegiate days how pennington was successful and how much work he put into the game. Most people said “Well he has Randy Moss to throw to” the same as sanchez with the “superior” supporting cast at USC. The difference is that Pennington PROVED in college that he has the traits to lead a comeback for his team in difficult situations. He has displayed this his entire life. Here is an article that you should read because it looks very familiar. http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2009/05/the-third-quarterback-in-the-conversation-these-days-is-seemingly-always-chad-pennington-we-talk-about-the-drafting-of-pat-w.html
Now that Parcells is gone as well as Pennington we see what going on here. Woody Johnson in his own mind DRAFTS Mark Sanchez who he feels can do better what Pennington did for the jets to cover for his mistakes and look very successful. He never researched Mark Sanchez. Mark Sanchez is strickly an unknown right now. We don’t know anything about him. Woody Johnson shows his true colors by drafting a quarterback when he doesn’t have the experience to handle the situation. This could be very bad if Mark Sanchez is not successful in New York. Woody would make the same mistake again but worse because he would affect the team that is already in place to win a lot of games and bring home a championship. Woody johnson you are a corrupt old man and YOU WILL ALWAYS NEED someone is smarter than you to help you become successful. You don’t know football but you can pull the wool over the fans’ eyes.
Granted USC’s defense was shutting the competition down in most games unlike what happens in the Big 12 (Sam Bradford and Colt McCoy throwing for a ton of yards and TD’s as if there weren’t even a defense on the field). So Bradford is getting all these yards in the spread while the Big 12 doesn’t play defense, and Sanchez is also throwing to wide open WR’s and getting a ton of yards … the games have just been closer.
I’m not going to hold having a great D against Sanchez. That’s unfair.
Who reads the Post?
fonzie,
just curious, do we need a full year for you to stop crying about the release of Chad? I hope I’m not reading posts here 5, 10, 15 years from now while you are STILL whining about this?
As for the Woody rant, look, he’s not my favoirte person imposing these PSL’s on me and my season ticket holding brethren, but I do respect what he has done for this franchise. Having lived through Leon Hess’ decades of indifference, firing the only decent coach he ever had because of a foul mouth (Walt Michaels) and only waking up to want to “Win now” at the end of his life by hiring Parcells, it makes me appreciate an owner like Woody. At least he cares, he had proven he will spend money on this team if his front office convinces him it is needed, and that he will let the front office do their job unfettered. But like a good owner he steps in when he feels its necessary to assesss the situation and make a change (firing Mangini).
Is he perfect? Of course not. He should’ve tried to build a stadium for this team that wouldn’t be a converntion center (Queens comes to mind), but he wanted a big real estate payday instead, and ended up with his tail between his legs running back the Giants and NJ.
If you think it was his call to release Pennington, trade for Favre, and draft Sanchez then we are all in real trouble. He lets his football people make the decisions, weighing in when necessary, they traded for Favre, didn’t exactly work out, they traded up for Sanchez, only time will tell if it will or won’t. One thing is for sure, if it doesn’t it won’t leave me longing for the days of Chad Pennington.
Actually, this is one of the first good pieces of sports journalism I have read in a long time. The writer actually did research, presented the data clearly without slanting it and rather than voice his opinion as god on high raises legitimate questions that should inform any Jets fan’s opinion.
He presents the case for why trading up is a great gamble. It is and was. He doesn’t say Sanchez will not get er done. He just lets the facts create the doubts that realistic fan already has.
Thanks for the link. A rare decent piece of sports journalism. In the Post no less. Who knew?
harlan
Im sorry guys, but i dont understand why its a bad thing that Sanchez is used to winning. If anything, that should motivate him more to overcome adversity when it hits, because thats who he is, it what hes always has been, a winner. Its not coincidence that the majority of NFL scouts and analysts agree that hes ready to go. Rex and Tannenbaum arent idots, and if they are basically putting their jobs on the line for this guy, linking their futures to Sanchez’s success (which Tannenbaum especially is), then theres no question they feel hes ready to lead them to a super run for the next 5 years. Was it a gamble to move up to get him? Of course!! But what did we really give up?? Honestly?? It was peanuts compared to what he could become.
If Sanchez is as smart as they say he is, and has as good a head on his shoulders as they say he does …
How could he NOT know he is in for a culture shock? I’m sure he’s been told over and over again that things will be more difficult in the NFL and that the party is over.
I’m with you, Harlan. I thought this was a great piece with – wait for it – actual facts backing up his point. And his point isn’t that Sanchez will fail, just that he’s going to face challenges and situations that he has never faced before – situations that most college QB’s have already faced at some point.
Toon2388 i agree with you the article sucked. this was just a set up for a later I told you so, and if Sanchez works out we’ll get a ” the Jets were lucky” article.
The fact is every QB is a gamble, Peyton manning struggled his first few seasons even with a good team and an experienced coach, Tom Brady was asked to only manage his game with short quick passes and his D carried the load even into their second championship, and speaking of Brady Mad dog he from S.cal he played at michagan but he from s.cal and Carson Palmer played at SC so stop with the cold weather crap.
Here it is in a nut shell, the past is the past, and the future is the future, will Sanchez be a good QB, well many an NFL team liked everything about him. Shotty, Ryan, and Woody went and took a look at this guy, they liked what they saw and loved his leadership ability AND take charge attitude, i.e. grabbing the OL and working on plays prior to the mini camp. KC in 4 years has what 8 starts in 4 years, couldn’t beat out CP and lost out to Farve, Rattliff was pressing him for the QB starting job, and I should put Sanchez under a microscope, I don’t think so. Everyone in the east plays with bad weather, Farve is a Louisiana boy and played in Green Bay, give me a break, good players win and find way’s to win. He doesn’t have to be the greatest QB to have ever worn the green and white, its a team effort that wins football games. The Giants didn’t win the S.B. because Manning had a good game, they won because the D kicked butt all game and made TB pay every time he wanted to throw the ball, Manning scored enough points to win, and the could have easily lost the game if it weren’t for the helmet catch. The point in all this is that more than one element of a football game decides the outcome, I don’t care if you have the best QB in football (Dan Marino NEVER won a SB) if you don’t have the other parts to win you don’t win, John Elway didn’t do a thing until they surrounded him with the talent to win. Sanchez is just a part of the whole.
3 years from now, we’ll either have a Superbowl win or a new GM & Head Coach.
If you go solely by stats, the odds are against Sanchez, as QBs with less than 20 starts at the college level rarely have great success in the NFL.
I’m hopeful, but I know how impatient most Jets fans are. I hope you guys don’t turn on him if he has a rocky start to his career.
I’m afraid anything less than a Ryan/Flacco type rookie season might turn off the cynical majority of our fan base.
No one really knows whether Sanchez will be a good QB or not. But the bottom line is if you think he has the potential to be a franchise QB and you haven’t had one in forty years then you have to go get him. All these different variables are ridiculous. Peyton Manning couldn’t win a big game in college yet he is great. Tom Brady was a 6th round pick and is great. Heath Shuler was a stud in college and was a bust. All these variables are pointless until you see what he does on the field in the NFL. However based on how he handles himself and the tools that he possesses I think it was worth the risk.
I’ve liked everything I’ve seen from Sanchez so far. He seems to have his head in the right place, which, especially when you’re playing in NYC, is just as important as all the physical stuff. So I’m looking forward to the Sanchez era, boom or bust.
But I thought it was a good article, he raised some interesting points, and I thought his basic point of, maybe we should stop calling him Franchez, is something I totally agree with.
The thing I want to know now, and looked for a little on the internet but wasn’t able to find is, what was Carson Palmer’s and Matt Lienarts win loss record in close games? How many comebacks did those guys engineer? Those guys played on stacked teams too. I think it would just be interesting to compare. Anyone know where you find this stuff out?
Also – I love how this guy is now an expert on Orange County High School football – because he KNOWS Mission Viejo has more talent across the board than say Laguna Niguel & El Toro
The only input that Woody had, on picking Sanchez, is putting his stamp of approval on it. The choice was made by the coaching staff, along with Tannenbaum. They used their professional judgement, as to whether Sanchez had the mental and physical tools to do the job.
We all saw how well players such as Leinart and Quinn played in college. When you step into the pros, it is a whole nother ball game. Alot has to do with your team, your O-Line, your O-Coordinator, and the opportunity you get to play and learn. Why write pessimistic garbage, before you see how things play out. So far, everything I see from Sanchez says that he will grow into a solid, intelligent, pro QB.
I thought the article was thoughtful, if slanted. You can’t fault a guy who wins over 90% of his games because he didn’t win them all. That’s just silly and it feeds the false belief that the QB wins or loses games all by himself. But, the idea that just an average QB can win the Super Bowl is somewhat statistically false. Actual Super Bowl winning QBs tend to be upper echelon QBs, often pro bowlers and a majority are in the HOF. Trading up to get a QB that a team believes has that kind of potential is worth it because great QBs are scarce. Plus, aren’t there many warm weather QBs that have made it in the pros? How about Aikman? Favre? Elway? They all played in cities where it can get cold and snow.
Last point, I think Peyton Manning said that every INT has a 100 stories. Of the two INTs that the author posted, the 1st in 2007 was awful. Sanchez threw into triple coverage on a WR he locked on to. The second, in 2008, was a miscommunication with his WR, who stopped and pivoted inside, if he had kept running he would’ve been in position to make the catch. Was the INT Sanchez’s fault? What was the pattern supposed to be? It also looked like the WR (or TE) could’ve jumped, why didn’t he? Every INT isn’t the QB’s fault, every pass caught for a TD isn’t because the QB made a great throw and every win isn’t because of the QB.
Bunji, if you’re gonna talk about Peyton and brady, don’t forget that whole can’t win a big game thing held true for Peyton for a while. 4 straight playoff losses to start off his career, and those first two games against the patriots he really looked like a head case. Obviously he got his ring, but I don’t think you can just dismiss his inability to win important games at the college level as a fluke. Peyton is 7-8 in the playoff with 6 first round exits, Brady is 14-3 with no 1st round exits….
HBK- If you look at Peyton’s stats in some of those exits you will see it wasn’t all him. He did initially struggle against the Pats, but who doesn’t?
That’s true, I’m just trying to say that when we talk about QBs, and start seperating the legends from the greats from the busts, it almost never comes down to physical ability. QB is the most cerebral positon in the game, confidence to, and expeirence winning close games, at any level, isn’t something that should just be dismissed as irrelevant.
That being said, I have no idea, nor do I want to come off as if I think I have any idea, as to what playing on nothing but stacked teams all through high school and college will have on Sanchez. I just think it’s interesting to think about.
Also, I thought his point about not being able to beat out Booty, considering favre is about to take his number and his roster spot in all likely hood, was, at the very least funny.
Well, DUH! Of COURSE we don’t really know what we have here! Does anybody really know what they have until the kids put the pads on? Brady was drafted in the sixth (or 7th) round for cryin’ out loud. There was a whole contingent of people who thought Ryan Leaf was a sure thing. Ken O’Brien was drafted before Marino. Even the great Montana was a third rounder. I wonder what the heck all the so-called experts wrote about those guys coming out of college? Can we all just take a deep breath, and let the kid play first before we label him?