Daily Links: If Only We Could Take Mark Sanchez Back in Time …
- Don Banks ranks the Jets #15th this decade.
- Jane had some fanstastic audio the other day.
- HolyJoeNamath checks out the new Jets store in Manhattan.
- Tim Carlson has a report about the store as well.
- Here’s a B/R article about the two sons of famous NFL head coaches on the Jets staff.
- Wilfork might not be coming back to practice any time soon.
- Will Sanchez’s buddy, Matt Stafford be the opening day starter for the Lions?
- Mangini is getting scrutinized a lot more closely than when he did many of the same things for the Jets (granted there wasn’t a 10 hour busride involved).
47 Responses to Daily Links: If Only We Could Take Mark Sanchez Back in Time …
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Also — they were going to do charity work, working with inner-city kids. It’s not like they were getting ready for a cruise on a “love boat.” After the “horror” of a bus ride, the players get to go back to being millionaires while these kids in Hartford go back to trying to survive. Let’s keep it in perspective here.
The regular season can’t come fast enough so we can talk about football and not this type of nonsense.
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MSM says:
Thats not the point. Its the hazing manner in which he does it. He himself was not on the bus and only returned with the team on the bus out of media pressure. Mangini has a history of trying to prove a point to rookies. A ten hour bus ride is a ten hour bus ride whether youre rich or not (a complete pain in the ass). It was totally unnecessary for a voluntary OTA and Mangini shouldnt be volunteering other peoples time and charity, that has to come from the players themselves. What are the rookies supposed to do? Say no and then be in Manginis doghouse the rest of the year? Its hazing and unprofessional on Manginis part during a voluntary camp.
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hank/naples says:
AND- these hypocrite Mangini haters,writers and fans with amnesia, will lead the parade to praise him when he turns the franchise arround. Without missing a beat and without eating crow..
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MSN:
Where were you in 2006?
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charleyjet says:
There is no truth to the rumor that the Jets store is running a special on PSLs.
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JustAGreenGuy says:
The bus ride from Cleveland to NJ for a normal person is 18 hours on a Greyhound. 10 hours with new teammates on a bus to help kids is not a bad deal. If BB did it no one would care. In fact BB had people practice when they were on IR and no one did care.
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What does 2006 have to do with the way hes acting now with the Browns? Its still wrong. A collective group of players, agents, and family memebers are all publically calling him out on it. They are all wrong? I dont think so. Why do Jets fans continue to defend a coach that had one good season (after taking over someone elses team) but managed to single handedly ruin two? Theres a lot of Brett Favre haters on this blog and to be honest, after what hes done, I am one of them… but Mangini ruined our season last year, not Brett. The game plans, horrific. The ability to react and change during the games, wore than horrific. Im tired of hearing people defend a guy that looked and sounded like he hated being the NY Jets coach. A few months of Rex and Mangini looks ametuer. At least Rex will be himself win or lose and not the wannabe shadow of Bill Belechik.
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MSM:
Because in ’06 Mangini was more of a disciplinarian when he brought in his no nonsense, Jet Core Values winning attitude and was applauded and hailed ‘Manginious’. How quickly they become enemies, right?
Question: This was charity to benifit under priviledged children right?. Would it not have been better to donate the $$$ saved on airfare to that cuse? It WAs a difference of a few THOU$AND, correct?
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MSM- You discount that the majority of people are too selfish and bratty. It was to humble them. There is nothing wrong with turning these brats into men. Agents are snakes, and families always want the easiest way for their loved ones. Your mother wouldn’t have said it was hard on you. People are soft. This is the NFL time to get hard and deal with some hardship.
We would have made the playoffs if Brett had played mediocre and Coles didn’t drop that pass in SEA. Did he tighten up? Yes he sure did, but you would to if you knew you had to win now. Mangini turned around our roster in 3 years. He was the scape goat. They say he scripted the offense’s first drive. IT WAS THE BEST DRIVE WE HAD EVERY FRICKIN GAME!!! I wish him the best of luck. Rex is inheriting a much better, and smarter team than Mangini did.
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JAGG:
I always knew you were ok !!
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hank/naples…
He was hailed “Mangenious” because papers like the NY Post and The Daily News neaded a catchy headline after he beat the Pats for the first time, not after coming in and establishing the “Jet Core Values”.
JustAGreenGuy…
As for me discounting the “bratty” ones. I tend to belive its not the head coach’s job to be their father. Its also not the head coaches job to volunteer their charity. And if we focus on this specific group alone, IT IS his job to make rookies better, not have them sitting on a bus for 10 hours when they are at a voluntary OTA camp trying to improve and make the team. Theres a reason this is making headlines and being investigated guys… Im not the only one being critical. Ask a Browns fan if they like what hes doing? Ask them. I have… and they said its a joke what hes doing. Way to start off on the right foot, with your entire rookie class hating you.
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Pete57 says:
Mangini had several glaring short comings last year. If you watched the last 5 games, the team looked very flat. There was no excitement or enthusiasm. (Jason Trusnick was the only guy who came to play against Miami). Players on the sideline just standing around. They all looked exactly like Mangini. Quiet and uniterested.
He needed to be the leader of the team and bench Favre. It was obvious he had some type of injury which severely affected his play. Another option would’ve been to coach aroud the injury. 40 passes in the snow in Seattle? Inexcusable.
The defense played poorly as well. If he was invloved with the planning and playcalling he did a poor job, if he wasn’t involved, he should have been.
In the end the Jets had a horrible collapse, and the reponsibility falls at the door of the HC. Mangini would tell you that himself.
I thought it was the best move for Tannenbaum to fire him so quickly.
I love Rex right now, but time will tell about him.
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As far as the “bus ride”, it’s not a big deal to me. Whenever anyone starts a new job, they feel compelled to do certain things to ingratiate themselves to their new bosses. In my opinion it’s a non-issue.
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Great coaches have started the same way. I know lots of people in Ohio. I went to school there. Look at their roster turnover. He will field a more competitive team. It isn’t his job to be their father, but what does the military do to new recruits? True Eric is not uncle Sam, but being in the NFL doesn’t have the same risks as being a soldier. He isn’t trying to be their father. He is showing a coach and team are above those things. I think tehy should do charity work. None of what he has done suprises me. It is a story, because it is the offseason and people need things to write about it. The union is filing a grievance, because that is a unions job. This is all standard and just his coaching style. I think he will lose the grievance, but could care less and I still wish him the best of luck. He had 2 winning seasons in 3 years in a decent division (With a team that had a 16-0 regular season.), in a tough market, and completed a switch from the 4-3 to the 3-4.
“If BB did it no one would care. In fact BB had people practice when they were on IR and no one did care.”- No grievances for that one, because of the rings.
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Pete- agreed with all you said, but….. Brett has faltered during the last stretch for the past 5 years even the Packers 13-3 season. I think the injury is a little embellished.
Is it just me or does 40 passes in the snow or strong winds happen way too much? Gilbride, Giants OC, does it all the time too. What are they thinking?
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What does that prove? The point is BB didnt do it… hasnt done it… and wouldnt do it…. Theres a difference between wanting your players to practice (no matter what) and sending them on 10 hour bus ride during voluntary OTAs to force charity work upon them. Im not sure how that couldnt be any clearer.
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No BB did have players practice when they were on IR,which is against league rules. Google it. I think that is much worse, but a casualty of the sport.
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Pete57:
We all know hindsight is 20/20 and, I’m sure if Mangini had to do it all over again, he would have benched Farve. But going back to the collapse, the fact is Farve was the catylist and there is no way he could have benched him. The owner had just spent $200 million, gotten rid off the farnchise face in Pennington and gave $12 million for was was received by ALL New York as the second comming of GOD (in pads)…….tell me Peter, would you have sat Farve down and replace him with who…….Clemens?
The fans (and the press)would have burned his house down and his family in it.
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Rushing people back from concussions isn’t a bad thing? Ask Toon and Chrebet for their feelings on that one.
Charity work is a good way to ground people. I doubt he will be doing it again next year. I tend to believe he didn’t think a longer bus ride would be a big a deal as it has become. The Jets did it every year.
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Sanchez, Cutler, Favre. This is NY and Woody wants a star at QB. I would have benched Favre, but I’m sure the bosses wouldn’t have been thrilled.
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Never said he didnt have them practice while they were on the IR, i dont need to google it.
“If BB did it no one would care. In fact BB had people practice when they were on IR and no one did care.”- No grievances for that one, because of the rings.
Thats the logic you used to support your Mangini argument. They arent one in the same. The point is BB never sent anyone on a 10 hour bus ride during OTAs. In fact, NO COACH HAS. Thats why this whole situation is absurd. Hes trying to prove something, and the only thing hes proved is that he has a great way of alienating certain players from his team. Ask Gholston and Keller how theyd feel about one of Mangini’s 10 hour bus rides. Now ask any Jets fan how you want Gholston and Keller to be feeling about their coach and youll see that what Mangini is doing is only damaging himself, his team, and his fanbase.
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The fan base wants wins. I don’t care what happens to the players and niether will Cleveland fans if they see the playoffs in arguably the hardest divison in football. Vernon Gholston kept Vernon Gholston off the field last year. He was hard on Keller in the same 5 game stretch that deservedly cost him his job. It’s a frickin bus ride to help underpriviledged kids. Cry me a frickin river about a bus ride. I don’t see it as any different than being sent on a business trip. I spend half my life on planes for ten hours at a time.
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Hank, it’s not 20/20, Myself and many Jet fans aw this as it was happening and said so.
If I had been the OC, I would obviously have access to all the information regarding Favre’s injury. I would have most likely benched Favre and put in either Clemens or Rarliff whoever I like better. If the information told me the injury could be played with, I would’ve run the ball much more, and got Leon MANY more touches. I would have taken out the Chad Pennington playbook for Favre’s passing plays.
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Pete57;
It’s comming out now what I felt all along that Mangini was opposed to the Farve trade, so not benching him was Not due to his admiration of him. Farve Did Not suffer an injury as invented by the press, he was damaged goods he had been suffering through the last couple of years( said he felt a “twinge” while stretching, before camp) as a result of his IRON QB streak.
Farves decline was not “sudden” and Mangin under pressure to stay in the playoff race, had to start the savior God almighty along with his penchant for dumb throws, INTs and miserable play selection, that are part of his baggage. Mangini had not choice but to go down with the ship.
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Pete57;
You say ” Farves play selection”, not Manginis?
Mangini always gives his QB’s a couple of plays to take to the huddle to give the QB the option to “read and react”. -
Hank, do you mean to say that Favre looked the same against Arizona as he did in the last few games? Maybe he was damaged when he came here, but if so, there is no question then that he further injured himself. Is the press making up the story that he is seeking advice right now on wether he should get surgery on his bicep tendon?
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Hank, have to strongly disagree that Mangini had no options. He had three others I’ve already mentioned. He picked the fourth which was obvioulsy the wrong one because he got fired.
Hank, was any other team even remotely interested in hiring Mangini, other than the Browns?
Mangini was available from day one of the offseason. Plenty of teams needed a coach. No one called. And when it was clear the Browns wanted him, if anyone else was interested they would have made the call then.
What is your reasoning for that?
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SackDance99 says:
If you’re an employee, of course, you have to do your boss’ bidding, but these guys were rookies, without contracts or UDFAs hoping to make the team. There is a certain mean-spiritedness about having them spend 20 hours on a bus for charity work not of their own choosing. I guess it’s a sign of the times that restricting someone’s personal freedom is considered okay if it’s for charity. How about if one of these guys had a sick relative or hadn’t seen their wife/kids/family in a week?
The deconstrustion of last season’s collapse just won’t end. Blaming Favre as the “catalyst” is just inaccurate. The defense was terrible against Denver and the 49ers. The game plan against Seattle was stunningly awful (remember not going for the TD with 4th and inches on the goal line? First drive of the game? Take the crowd out, force Seattle to try to get TDs in the snow? Coaching 101, play for the win on the road and the tie at home). Favre had that ridiculous brain fart against Miami, but everyone seems to forget that Favre had the Jets with the lead in the 3rd quarter…the defense and special teams collapsed after that. Every coach that presided over a collapse last year was fired, including Mike Shanahan. Blaming just Favre tells only one, IMO, small part of the story.
Also, I can’t blame Mangini for sticking with Favre down the stretch, who was he going to play? Besides having Brad Smith run the option in the snow at Seattle, I don’t see how having KC coming in during a playoff run would have been a smart move and it would have been Ratty’s 1st NFL starts. Mangini’s error was in not riding the running game and a short passing game, which was exacerbated by his decision to bury Keller in his doghouse.
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Bent says: Maybe it wouldn’t be so badly perceived if Mangini and the other coaches had also taken the bus, but they all flew (and I doubt they flew coach – no pun intended). While that was presumably more expensive and that the money perhaps could have gone to the charity, Mangini notoriously works ridiculous hours, so probably wanted to maximize the use of his time.
Also, it’s often good for players to hate their coach early on in the relationship. Gives them something to bond over, a shared purpose. Maybe he can start to play a bit nicer once they do whatever he has decided is necessary to earn his respect and then they might end up thinking “maybe he’s not so bad”. Alternatively, maybe some of the position coaches can play “good cop” and Mangini will try to command respect by not being approachable.
I’m still not sure I should care one way or the other, but I’m sure Mangini planned all this and won’t care what the media thinks.
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Sack, thanks for agreeing with me on the game planning Mangini should have done. Since I like Clemens a little bit, I may have been inclined to give him a shot somewhere in those last 5 games. Probably give him a half, and if he looked bad, yank him. Obviously his playbook would be conservative, but he can throw a good deep ball once in a while to keep the defense honest.
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Pete57:
Peter, I can’t believe you actually believe Mangini was not wanted and unemployed as you say..” Mangini was available from day one of the offseason. Plenty of teams needed a coach. No one called. And when it was clear the Browns wanted him, if anyone else was interested they would have made the call then.”
Mangini was fired the DAY BEFORE New Years eve, lets see…’ Tannenbaum: Happy Holidays to you and your family, Eric but YOU ARE FIRED !!!”
I assume Mangini had to; 1) Spend the holidays with his family, 2) finish up some things (personal or corporate), 3) Travel and interview with the Browns and 4) Travel again and sign the contract. ALL this before Jan. 6th ’09. The next COACH Was not signed till weeks after mangini. Dou you really think the process took that long that you are hinting no one except the Browns wanted to”pick him up’?.By the way, they were sooo undecided about Mangini, that they may have allowed him to pick the GM. Now, who was the last Manager that had the Power to do that? Pick the GM?
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Hank you fillibuster very nicely.
Please provide one shred of eveidence that any team other than Cleveland was even remotely interested in Mangini
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Hank, here’s an article, from Cleveland.com from the time the Browns were courting Mangini. Please note the last question and answer:
Eric Mangini was fired as New York Jets coach the day after the team completed a free-fall from first place to third in the AFC East and out of the playoffs.
Before the day was over, Mangini was on the fast track to becoming the front-runner to replace Romeo Crennel as the next Browns coach.Now that Mangini’s hiring appears inevitable, if not imminent, a refresher course on the one-time Browns ballboy is in order.
Question: How did Mangini go from “Mangenius” to “you’re fired” in three seasons, two in which the Jets had a winning record?
Answer: Jets owner Woody Johnson doled out about $160 million in future contracts for veteran acquisitions in 2008 to get the team over the top while simultaneously pushing sales of ultra-expensive luxury seats in the new Meadowlands stadium under construction. The trade for disgruntled Green Bay quarterback icon Brett Favre was the final act in getting the team to the playoffs. When the Jets failed, Mangini took the fall.
Q: Is that all?
A: Mangini was not gung-ho about the Favre trade and seemed intimidated by him. Favre had his run of the place and other players took note. Mangini’s defense failed him in the playoff stretch. He was heavily criticized for some game decisions that backfired. He also was hard on his players and on his coaches. He was not the most popular man in the Jets complex by the end of his time.
Q: So why did he appeal so much to Lerner?
A: Mangini was Crennel’s first choice to be defensive coordinator in 2005, so there was some familiarity with him from that time. More importantly, Lerner has been convinced that the Browns needed an experienced head coach, one capable of learning from his failures in his first job. Mangini is a grinder who works his players hard and Lerner felt that type of coach definitely was needed. Also, Mangini never shirked responsibility as Jets coach and always stood up and took the bullets.
Bill Kostroun/Associated Press
The word “stoic” is often used in describing Mangini during his tenure in New York. But as he proved here, there were times when his emotions bubbled to the top during games, and he was considered a very demanding boss.Q: Why has no other team expressed interest in Mangini?
A: Some believe he is too tough a coach to work for. But he’s not the only coach accused of that. It is odd that he is not a candidate in Detroit, St. Louis, Oakland or Denver. -
Pete57:
You gotta let me know when you’re comming down to play some golf. As you know, I can’t play with you but i’ll gladly meet you @ the 19th hole.
Riminder: It was your argument that Mangini wasn’t wanted, why should I have to prove that?
Bill Kostroun/Associated Press:
Q: Why has no other team expressed interest in Mangini?Eric Mangini was fired as New York Jets coach the day after the team completed a free-fall from first place to third in the AFC East and out of the playoffs.
A. ” Before the day was over”…. (Dec. 29)…., “Mangini was on the fast track to becoming the front-runner to replace Romeo Crennel as the next Browns coach”.
Mangini fulfilled a life long dream by signing a four year contract with the Browns Jan, 7th 2009. A date that will go down in Jets infamy.
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Pete57:
Do I get a hint that you are now reading articles about the Browns/Mangini in the Cleveland press?
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Bent says:
“A date that will go down in Jets infamy.”
That’s a bit overdramatic. Belichick won multiple Superbowls after becoming the Jets coach and then resigning on his first day, but even that date hasn’t gone down in Jets infamy. Can anyone here name the date without looking it up first?
Even if Mangini achieves the same things as his mentor, that date is unlikely to be remembered.
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Bent:
Oh Bent, you’re greatly appreciated here.
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Hank Hank Hank!
It has always been your contention that Mangini is a good coach. And it is my contention that he is not. It is incumbent on both of us to prove our points.
I have done a decent job proving mine, while I await something, anything, from you to prove yours.
I too am looking forward to meeting you on the 19th hole.
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The two winning seasons in three years and the effective shift from the 4-3 to the 3-4 means nothing? The fact that his offensive drives always led to scores? (if it is true) The increase of talented, smart players on the roster?
He lost his job , because like dear Brian Billick he never found a steady QB.
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Jagg, didn’t Herm accomplish more? 2nd round of the playoffs?
How is he doing these days?
You cannot compare Mangini and Billick. Billick has a super bowl. C’mon now I know you are much more sophisticated than that.
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The fact that the Patriots have had 9 losses in 3 years and we were two of them? The 5-1 record vs Miami? The 4-2 division record last year?
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Billick won a superbowl early. I intend no offense to Billick, but he would still be in Baltimore if Kyle Boller hadn’t been a bust.
Herm did alright, but his drafts were horrible and so was the defense. He also wasn’t the youngest coach in the league when he was hired. 2004 was a magical year. It ended with bad play calling, and same ol Jets
I hated Herm’s clock managemnet too, but Andy ried can’t run a two minute drill to save his life and he has been very successful.
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Jagg, at 8-3 I was believer. The last 5 games were so bad that it completely negated it for me, as far as Mangini is concerned. I’v e stated several times the biggest issue I had was the demeanor of the team. The players were completely unemotional, the exact opposite of being motivated and fired up.
Many good coaches who are tough, end up having to be replaced because their style doesn’t work with a particular group any longer. Tom Coughlin for example. They lose the team. But it usually takes 5 years or more. And it happens when that good coach has a bad season.
Mangini lost the team after 2 1/2 years. During a great season. That is a huge red flag. He had to go.
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JAGG,
Mangini was quite a mixed bag, right? His game plans were very good, often great (second Pats game in 2006, Steelers game in 2007), but his in-game adjustments were either terrible, non-existent or both. Football is more chess than checkers and I always found that Mangini was playing catch up if his plans didn’t work. I agree, he and Tanny built a strong foundation, but there are many who post regularly on this blog that think the Mangini/Tanny drafts were, at best, mediocre.
Also, he has to be flexible with his personnel ideas. Last season, Clowney should have played when he was healthy. Even as a decoy going deep, he would’ve had value. Eric didn’t play him because he wasn’t valuable on special teams. Also, burying Keller when he had become Favre’s favorite target was plain dumb. He also got lucky in 2006 playing a QB (Chad) who he obviously never wanted and reluctantly had to keep.
I thought that Eric would become a good HC. But, getting the Cleveland job might have been the worst thing for him. I bet Belichick will never admit it, but having to go back to working for his old boss (Parcells) after he washed out as an HC must have been the type of humiliation that caused him to re-dedicate himself in order not to fail when he got a second chance. Where’s Eric’s humility? IMO, he’s making, thus far, the same poor decisions that ultimately led to his team not playing hard for him.
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Agreed that he had to go. When we were 4-12 he held the team. The NY pressure got to him last year. He had to win now and after being aggressive to get to 8-3 it became very conservative. I think his hands were tied with playing Favre. If he hadn’t lost the team I’d still want him to be our coach. I think he has a good head for the game and that last year would have been a lot for anybody.
Moment he was fired Rex became my candidate, so I’m happy we hired him. I hope he can build on the foundation Mangini built and get this team to teh promise land.
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Pete57:
I have always said that Mangini is a phenominal manager, a great talent evaluator and a very good coach with two major flaws. 1) Because of his overwhelming strength of character he is loyal to a fault to those that are loyal to him, and 2) He lacks emotion, the fire to kick butt at that precise moment. Unfortuinately the flaws negate part of his coaching ability ,but he is learning, and he will be a great NFL COACH.
I love how fans a losing Browns franchise can go on the attack against Mangini.
The man is running that football team the way he feels it needs to be run. I’ve heard reports from various people that over the last three years, the Browns locker room was abysmal. Everyone is there to have fun right?
Wrong. You’re making millions of dollars to play 16 games a year. Your telling me a twenty hour bus ride is cause to open an investigation into the ethic of a coach? If the rookies need to be humbled, then they need to be humbled. All these “pro-football” beat writers shouldn’t be so quick to judge. They may very well be eating their own words come December.